Episode 23: It Cost How Much?

The story of Lazarus isn't really about Lazarus at all. When we read the biblical accounts of miracles, healings, and resurrections, we often miss the bigger picture. These stories aren't about the people being healed or raised from the dead - they're about God's glory being revealed through these circumstances.

Watch sermon here: https://youtu.be/li15oc-4PX4

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Welcome to Build, a podcast from Danville First Baptist Church. Build is where Sunday's message becomes Monday's conversation. Each episode we dig deeper into what God is teaching us, talk about how it shows up in real life, and help you keep building your faith beyond the weekend. Let's get started. Welcome to Build, the podcast of FBC Danville, where we aim to build on Sunday's sermon, but ultimately build on our relationship with Christ. And we're we're back again with with Robot Daniel. And we are aware, everyone, that he's slightly got a glare on him, but this is as professional as we get. So just listen to his words and don't worry about what we look like. You probably just shouldn't even look at what we look like anyway. You'll be better suited if you just listen to us. So this week, Dusty was was back again. And I don't know, this might have been your last Sunday for a week or two anyway. You were already on the schedule before any of this to come up. So um, but this one, like they've all been good. I think every week you're you're you just keep getting tighter and tighter and and bringing bringing it more and more. So um I was thinking that today. I was I was re-listening because I was out Sunday, and so I was listening and trying to refresh my memory today. And I was like, this dude, he's he's coming along, you know. Just give him a couple weeks, and he's got he's got things, things going on here.

SPEAKER_01 1:35

But this week you're getting there.

SPEAKER_03 1:38

I'm no Daniel. I'm no Daniel. This week was uh entitled It Cost How Much? And you you joked about yourself, and but anyone that is friends with Dusty knows that that was funny. It was because he probably might be the a person tighter than I am when it comes to being budget friendly. That's what we're we're budget friendly.

SPEAKER_01 2:04

As they say, as they say he squeaks when he walks. That's that's right.

SPEAKER_03 2:11

But it's it was so good. It was so good. You you started out, um, and I'll let you you know talk about some things, but you started out with with uh this this the account of Lazarus and Lazarus and and what that well you and you said there's so many different things you can pull from this from this, but um you went on to make the point that none of none of these stories, none of these accounts that we read in the Bible were actually about that person. And if we're doing Christian life right, we're not the main character of our own story. And I know we'll get into that some more. Um I just wanted to kind of go ahead and throw those things out there, and I'll let you add anything, any thoughts you've had since Sunday?

SPEAKER_00 3:05

Yeah, you know, I mean, just the thing that keeps resonating with me is that I am the I'm the guy who always talks about being burdened for the lost. Man, have a passion to see people saved, have a passion to see people come to a place where they have to make a decision. Do I do I surrender to Christ or do I reject Christ? And when we read so much in scripture in that context, you know, I think about like Paul in Romans 9, who said, I'm willing to be accursed. I'm basically willing to be separated from God so that others will come to know Christ. Well, I think of myself as being passionate for the lost, but am I that passionate? Right. When we think about salvation of others, it it costs how much? Like, what is that gonna cost me? And when we look at every story in the Bible and we frame it in context of everything that's done is done for God's glory. Lazarus didn't die for his own glory, and he didn't raise from the dead for his own glory. Right. Jesus allowed him to die. Matter of fact, Jesus tells the disciples, like, I'm glad I wasn't there to rescue him before he died, because God is going to be glorified greater in this. And then when he raised him, it wasn't because, oh man, what's what's Lazarus gonna do? Poor Lazarus, he's dead. It was I'm raising Lazarus back to life so that others will see that I bring dead things to life, and Jesus still brings dead things to life, and that's still why we're saying I hate to interrupt you.

SPEAKER_01 4:47

This go back to what you're saying, but I'm gonna interrupt you real quick because I've had this thought here lately, too. This is an uncomfortable thought, and you're it's gonna sound like blasphemy when I first say it. When it comes to Jesus does everything for his glory, he didn't actually die on the cross to forgive you of your sin, to save you of sin. He actually died on the cross for his glory.

SPEAKER_03 5:10

Right.

SPEAKER_01 5:10

Yes, and part of that glory is that he saves you from your sin. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like we always love to make it me centric. You know, one of the one of the one of the takeaways that stuck with me was you know, the the and you hit it too many different times, but stop being the main character in your own story, stop being the main character in God's story, it's his story, right? You know what I mean? And we like to, well, Jesus died for my sins. He did, but he actually died for his glory, first and foremost. Right. And and part of that is part of that glory is that he does things for our good, which, you know, thank you, God, for that. But it's it's his glory. So I interrupt you real quick.

SPEAKER_00 5:45

No, I mean, I think that's that's that's the point we're making, is that we have a me-centric view of life. Yes. Man, my finances are struggling. Well, what why has God abandoned me? Why is this not? You know, well, that I'm having struggles in my marriage, I'm having struggles at work, and it's all about how does this affect me? And the reality is, we should view it as how can this situation be used to bring glory to God? Paul goes on in Philippians and he says, I'm glad I'm in prison because how else would these guards hear about Jesus? I'm not that guy. I mean, I feel like I am the evangelist in the group. I feel like, what's up, buddy? I feel like I'm that's my calling, that's my gifting, that's my passion. And at the same time, when my car breaks down, my first thought is not, hey, this is an opportunity to tell the mechanic about Jesus. It's like, how am I gonna pay for this? What what what are we gonna do? We don't have evidence. It goes for the rugby issues. Yes, exactly. Uh, you know, well, well, I didn't get the promotion at work I wanted. Well, why, why, why didn't I? I would be faithful to God in that position. Well, because I have something to do here. And I think about a mentor of mine when I was growing up, a man named Solon Cannon. Um, and he's passed and he's gotten the reward for his for his faithfulness to Jesus. But Solon was uh, he was about a probably an 80-year-old man when I was in high school and I was broke and I was hurting. And he hired me to mow his yard. And every time I'd mow his yard, he'd say, Dusty, it's hot out there. Come in here and have a glass of lemonade with me. And and he would he'd say, you know, I I don't, you know, I got married later in life, and I have a couple of step-grandkids that I love, but I don't really have anybody to pour knowledge in. His wife had passed away. He's like, I don't see them a lot. I need somebody to tell about Jesus. And he began to tell me. And then when he went to the nursing home towards the end of his life, I would go visit him and he would say, Dusty, I don't know why I'm still here, but I know if I'm here, there's somebody in this nursing home that's supposed to hear about Jesus. And I was like, dude, this guy, he's crazy for Jesus. And uh man, I remember when he, and he would say, like, I'm gonna tell everybody because when I've told the last person, Jesus is gonna finally give me the reward that I'm waiting on, which is heaven. And I thought, why wait till I'm 85 to have that mindset? What if I have it in my everyday life? What if I have it when I go to the grocery store? What if I have it when I'm at work? What if I have it when my cars broke down? I don't do good at it, I struggle, but I think that was the call this week was let's have that God-centered view instead of the self-centered view.

SPEAKER_03 8:42

You know, something that uh Daniel actually said in a post earlier in the week or in the last week. I don't know. This whole my whole last week is all crammed together, but just expressing his gratefulness and thankfulness for and acknowledging all of the blessings that that are in his life and incur and encouraging us to not miss the blessings. And I like I was able to take that as we were, we would had a short little vacation, and some things happening that could have been really bad in a couple of spots, or at least um really aggravating. But but there were so many things to be thankful for within that this circumstance kind of sucks, but look at all these other things and just little even things that you might would think are silly, you know. We started looking at like, wow, the Lord, I think the Lord blessed us with being in this spot at this time for this thing. And it, like I said, it's there those things are all right, but if we start looking with the world with that, then I think we are we're we're more likely to then uh express outwardly if we're if we're internalizing the things that Jesus is doing in inside our life, it's just gonna naturally come out.

SPEAKER_01 10:09

Right.

SPEAKER_03 10:09

So I was appreciative of that encouragement.

SPEAKER_01 10:13

Absolutely. Yeah, I uh you know, I would have but prior to this, you know, this accident that we were in and you know, my legs being broken and surgery and all these things, I would have fancied myself a fairly grateful person. Like it's something that I know is important, it's something I talk about being important. And if you would have asked me, like, are you thankful for the little things in your life, I'd have been like, yeah, pretty pretty thankful person. And then you realize even even to a thousand degree level, all the little things in life that you're taking for granted. When you when you can't move fully and you can't do the just the daily task for yourself that you normally can do, and when you literally have to depend on everyone around you for everything, you realize how quickly or how vastly there are things to be thankful for. Just, I mean, this is T and I, but like just being able to easily go to the bathroom is something to be thankful for. And and I and I, yeah, and I was and I was already grateful for a good hot shower, but let me tell you something, bro. I'm more thankful for a good hot shower than you could possibly realize right now. Because when you go two weeks without one, you know, a little sponge bath and the bathtub, that don't count as no shower, man. You stand up and let that hot water beat on your back. Oh my gosh. That was glorious. That was glorious. And uh, you know, and all those things are things that you can look for and and give thanks to God, which is giving God glory for things in our life. And and the fastest way to get off track with your with your relationship with God is is A, not looking for the things to be grateful for, B, not looking, not expressing thanks for the blessings, uh, and C thinking that God owes you something. Right. And that's and that and that ties us back to what you said all through your message. Now see, is we we get this I this view that God owes us something, and and hardly anything will bring that out as much as tragic loss.

SPEAKER_02 12:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:19

When there's a tragic loss, you know, the how could you gods come out? And and really, that's the same trick that Satan's been playing on mankind since the beginning. Yeah, it's it's the same thing he always does. Like you, you you can't trust him. See, I told you you couldn't trust him.

SPEAKER_00 12:36

Right.

SPEAKER_01 12:38

Because of this bad thing or that bad thing. Oh, it's probably because you're not dedicated enough. It's probably because you're not doing enough. You know, if you were doing more, God would actually love you. Those are lies from Satan. Right. That that get perpetuated in the throughout the church in different ways. Um, and and he uses scripture to do it. Just because somebody throws a Bible verse on top of something doesn't mean they're speaking truth. It doesn't mean they're speaking Jesus talking. Right, right. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 13:02

Right.

SPEAKER_01 13:03

I mean, think about it. What what does Satan do other than twist God's word?

SPEAKER_02 13:07

Right.

SPEAKER_01 13:08

So so just because God's, you know, God's word, quote unquote, I don't mean that literally, if it is God's word, then yes, it is true and and infallible and and all that, but the way God's word is used, you got to be careful with that because just because somebody is saying, you know, chapter and verse to you, they might be twisting it up, even if they don't even realize they're right. Right. And so you you know, you just have to be you have to be careful about that. But um, yeah, just looking for the blessings, looking for the things to give thanks for. And and and you know, in that those tragic losses, the the the the the thing you have to understand is, and we've said this before, God doesn't owe us anything.

SPEAKER_02 13:47

Right.

SPEAKER_01 13:47

It's like how could he how could he take so-and-so so young? He didn't have to give us so-and-so at all. Right. He did it. Hard truth. Every breath that we get, every day that we get, every year that we get, every single bit of it is a is a gift that none of us deserve, that God didn't have to give to any one of us. Yeah, and and and I've said this numerous times from the pulpit, like so God gives you wrong life. Well, what would he do? In the long in the grand screen of eternity, what is an 80-year-old life versus a 30-year-old life? Right. It's a you know, it's it's it's a full vapor instead of half a vapor. You know, it's a full deep breath instead of instead of a half of a deep breath, like it's a breath, man. Our lives are a breath. And we get so, and I say we on purpose, we get so bogged down in the worldly day-to-day. If we let our eyes, instead of doing this, we let them come down to here, and all the worldly things of the of this life choke out the things that matter. And we're all guilty of it from time to time. We're all guilty of it from time to time. Um, and and but what you can't do is allow Satan to disrupt your relationship with God when it comes to those things. See, I told you because that's what he'll do. Yeah, see, I told you. Yeah, I mean, look at look at all you're doing for the Lord. I'm I've told you things he's trying to get me with. Oh, 100%. Look at all the things you're doing, you're a pastor. You you're literally working for Jesus. Yeah, that's your job. Yeah, and this is what he does. This is this is how he this is how he helps the people he loves. Man, miss me with that. Yeah, Satan, you can jump in a lake, man, like it ain't about that.

SPEAKER_03 15:30

A lake of fire. Oh, God.

SPEAKER_01 15:34

Jordan fades away.

SPEAKER_00 15:38

So yeah. Well, and and and the truth be told, and this is the this is an uncomfortable truth, that obviously you can't tell someone in their time of grieving and mourning. Right. No. But but truthfully, I have found that in 44 years, the things that God has used in my life to move the needle the most in me and in my ability to minister to others are the things that in the moment made me question everything I believed. Absolutely. They were the things that hurt the most. They were the things that brought me to a place of, you know, uh just brokenness. And I think that's what, you know, that's that's what Paul means when he says that when I'm weak, I'm strong. It's not that weakness makes us strong, it's weakness makes us dependent on the one who is strong. And then when that storm is passed, we suddenly have a testimony. Just like with Lazarus, when people would come and they wanted to see Jesus, but they didn't just want to see Jesus. He had been teaching, they knew Jesus, they knew he was fascinating, but they really wanted to see the one that he had brought back to life. Yeah. And and if Lazarus hadn't died, he wouldn't have been the testament to who Jesus is. If we hadn't gone through the hardships that we've gone through and still saw God's faithfulness, still proclaimed God's faithfulness, it wouldn't testify to a lost and dying world that Jesus is real and he's still bringing dead things to life because he's brought me to life.

SPEAKER_01 17:16

Yeah. Well, I love I loved that point you made. And man, did you like you just like built it and set it up and then made this point so perfectly about how they said and they came to see Lazarus too. I love how you said that. And and and like how that's gonna bring persecution into your life. Sure. Both of those points that you wanted to kill were phenomenal. Yeah, they didn't they didn't want to just kill Jesus, they wanted to kill Lazarus too. Yeah, you know, and and understand that when God's using you and and bringing glory for himself from your life, the world's gonna hate you for that. Don't be surprised by that. And and and don't be surprised by who it is to do that. Because, and and you know, that goes way back to our our our series on spiritual warfare um at the beginning of last year. Right. We talked about that our you know that we that our battle's not against flesh and blood. We're never battling the obs the human obstacle that is in front of us. We have to see past that to the spiritual forces that are behind it because oftentimes human beings don't even realize they're being used by spiritual forces of darkness. Yeah, they don't even realize that they're that they're in that. Um, you know, so I love the way you made that point there with Lazarus that they wanted to kill Lazarus, you know, too. That was it was it was great. I was I I'm pretty sure I meant that uh during the sermon or something. Come on, something I gave something out. I said something. It wasn't the only time that I I I said several times positive things. I only dropped once during your sermon. Just that one time.

SPEAKER_00 18:50

I'm getting better apparently, but I've only got one child bust in there.

SPEAKER_01 18:54

So right. But uh yeah, I have another point, it'll come back to me in a minute. But yeah, it was good. It's real good.

SPEAKER_03 19:05

I had also had something in my mind a second ago.

SPEAKER_01 19:09

I didn't have my fingers crossed to remember it used to forgot.

SPEAKER_00 19:12

Well, you know, I think I think it's very interesting, and it's just a little bitty nugget from the story that I really didn't even spend a ton of time talking about. But, you know, even at the tomb, when Lazarus comes forth, it says immediately that some of the people went to the Sister Mary and they're like, oh my goodness, this is amazing. And some went to the Pharisees and said, we can't have a guy bringing people back to life. Right. And that just tells you that they just saw something that is miraculous and unexplainable and should only be a testament to God. Yep. But it made them uncomfortable, and so they they rejected what they couldn't understand. And when we proclaim that Jesus is the only way, that's something that even if we testify of it well, we will we will be a testament to those who are ready to understand and they will follow Jesus. And others will say, I don't get it, therefore I hate it, and I'm against you. And and we have that's okay. If they were against Jesus, they should be against us. And and that shouldn't, we shouldn't feel like that there's something wrong with that. As long as we're proclaiming truth in love, then we can be satisfied with whatever comes.

SPEAKER_03 20:35

You know, I that I think we see those types of things still today. I mean, like I I firmly believe miracles are still taking place. That's true. But at the same time, like I I can kind of see where those people were coming from because I'm as I'm so guilty of seeing things or hearing a story about something. And not that I don't believe that Jesus can't, but you know, I start to question I'm actually questioning that. Yes, like yeah, yeah. What are are you trying to do you try are you trying to make some money off of this? Are you trying to elevate yourself through the this being being a part of this or that you can and so I you know I and I don't know if that's what what where they were, it was probably more they were scared, right? And uh didn't they didn't want to get in trouble.

unknown 21:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:29

Well, I saw Daniel's fingers crossed, so I know he's gonna come back to it in a second, but I want to I want to actually address what you just said before he gets to his point. Yeah, go for it. It's it's amazing because I was talking to um to Addie and Kennedy before I came here in between in between school and and the time that we're having it, we're having it a little bit later than normal. And Addy was telling me at at uh the the children's ministry that she works at on uh Wednesday night, she said that they were talking about just the upper room and Jesus revealing himself to The disciples and how Thomas didn't, you know, he wasn't there. And then they talked to him and he said, Well, unless I see it myself, and how Thomas gets such a bad rap. And I love this because uh it makes me super proud of the job she's doing leading young people because she said she had a third grader who said, Like, hey, do you think we're being fair to Lazarus? Because all the other disciples were locked in a room hiding because they were afraid, but Thomas was outside the room. So how do we know he wasn't out there being bold and they're all but we call him the doubter exactly just because he said, Hey, I need the same experience that you had. You guys saw him. I understand why you believe, but I need to see him too. So I thought, man, I've never I've never thought about well, why wasn't Thomas there? Was Thomas maybe he was curled up in the fetal position crying and thinking life's over. Maybe he was out there saying, like, I don't know what we're supposed to do, but I'm gonna do something. Sure. He wasn't he wasn't hiding in that moment with the rest of them.

SPEAKER_01 23:06

Well, we get this, we get this C S it called C S Lewis that called C. S. Lewis calls it the the uh the snobbery of recency or of modernity. Like we we have information now and we just assume that people back, you know, ancient times were just morons or stupid. You know why Thomas was not sure about it? Because because people don't die and come back to life. That's why. Now we on this side of the resurrection are like, well, how do they not get it? Because people don't die and come back to life, they still don't do it. Like nobody was standing around going, just any minute now, he's just gonna come back to life because people don't do that. Right, they don't do that, you know. So, yeah, it Thomas gets a bad rap with giving him a terrible nickname, and it frustrates the ever-loving fire out of me because every single one of us would have been Thomas at best.

SPEAKER_00 24:05

Right. That'd be a good day, yeah. Well, we went through some of the other disciples, and I gave them some nicknames, you know, that like if somebody, if Peter hadn't seen Jesus the first time and someone said, like, dude, I'm telling you, he would probably be punching Peter because he'd be like, talk about Jesus one more time, I'm gonna punch you in a minute, you know. You'd have some of those guys that but just this doubting Thomas is is you know, we've seen other places where he had great faith. Um but I just thought for a third. I was like to say, like maybe he was the one being the most faithful because he wasn't on lockdown. I don't know if you're right or not. But the fact that you're thinking that critically means I love what you're doing with scripture. You're digging up and you're reading, not what you've been told.

SPEAKER_01 24:53

That's wrestling with the word. That's what we're trying to be doing. Yeah, I love it. I love it. Yeah, so coach, going back to my point, hopefully, it doesn't take us off track, but that I had when you were talking, you were talking about um how these things that challenge your faith, challenge your uh beliefs, they these hard times that you went through, you know, they're also there are the things that have gotten you deeper with the Lord. And and the older that I get and the more mature that I'm getting in my faith, the more I can't look at those things in my own life. I can only speak for myself and not say, you know, faith is a gift. Like it's so it's truly a gift from God. Because, like, in and of yourself, is there any reason that you on your own would maintain faith through the things you've been through, apart from the Holy Spirit holding on to you? No, you know what I mean? And I just, I just and I pray that way now too. I pray and thank God for the gift of faith and that he'll strengthen in me the gift of faith, or in someone else, depending on the situation, because that's really what it is, you know. That I've been I've been through a thing or two in my life, and and people like to people we want to have handles on things. We like handles and we like neat and clean cut. And people want to, you know, thank me or applaud me sometimes for my faith. And I'm telling you, man, it's not me. Like, and I don't say that with false humility. I don't. It is with the utmost understanding of the fact that God has given me the ability to have faith and has kept that faith, is maintaining that faith, and he will keep it until the end. Or you can say salvation, you can say however you want to. It's the same thing to me. Like God, He's he He saved me, He's saving me, and He will save me. And if it were up to me, I wouldn't, I just wouldn't do it. I'm too weak, I'm too, I'm too uh realistic, I'm too analytical. There's just so many ways that I, if I could lose my salvation, I would. And I'm and I'm just so thankful that that he maintains that. And and there's such gosh, there's such in that, there's such beauty in that. Um, and I'm just there's such gratitude in that. And I'm not saying that I didn't haven't made choices. Yeah, of course I've made choices. But but it's it's it's not apart from the Holy Spirit. Yeah, if it were not for the Holy Spirit, I would I would have no chance. I would have no chance. I would look at those situations and I would go, yeah, God can't possibly be good because this isn't good. But instead, because of the Holy Spirit, I look at it and go, you just see, you just see all the beauty. I don't want to chase those rabbits, but you can just see the beauty in that. I actually had somebody at Peteetum today say to me, um, wow, that's beauty from ashes. We were talking about our stories, and you know, and they were like, Wow, that's beauty from ashes. I said, No, that I have gone from reading that on the page to living that in my life, seeing that literally happened in my life. Beauty from ashes. Um, and I'm just, you know, just thankful, thankful that God saved a wretch like me, man. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 28:05

Well, I think we become more understanding of biblical heroes or biblical biblical men and women, you know, I I think a lot, you know, in the same vein of what you're talking about, you know, when the disciples, when the followers, the the outer group of followers of Jesus in John chapter six, when Jesus is teaching them, says you have to eat my flesh and drink my blood, and they leave. And and he asks the the inner the inner circle, and he says, you know, are you guys gonna leave too? And Peter's like, Well, where are we gonna go? You know, and I I I think about that because like I've lived it. Like that to me, that makes sense because I've I have literally tried to go. Like, God, I am mad at you. I am going, I don't know where I'm going, but I'm going somewhere else. Something's gotta be there. And it's like it's like a cartoon, you know, you you go through this door into a new room and you find that it's the same room. And then you go into a new form. Like, God, I'm trying to get away. Would you just let me get away from you? And he's like, Listen, that's the perfect analogy. When you're done bad, I'm still here. When you're done, when you're done hurting, when you're done thinking this is the end of your story instead of this is the beginning of my story or this is a part of my story, I'm still right here. And and no matter how far, no matter I listen, I'm not I'm not a runner, okay, so I'm not gonna be like, well, I ran fast. Like I I've never ran fast. Okay, but I was I was sauntering, I was frolicking, whatever I was doing, but as quick as I could away from Jesus, and I couldn't get away from him. He just kept calling me back and kept calling me back, and saying that the very thing that you thought was going to destroy you, I am going to use to build others up.

SPEAKER_01 29:46

Beyond anything you could possibly imagine.

SPEAKER_00 29:50

It's not what I would tell you. Yeah. But and I know, I know none of our stories are necessarily we didn't write them, but can we allow God to use them? And when we do, I think we find. And I I I I try to tell our young people this all the time. You will feel like your story begins being redeemed, truly redeemed, when you see it used for God's glory. There's nothing else that helps to hurt. You know, people say time, I don't think time helps to hurt, but the first time that I gave my family story of my sister passing and saw God do something with it was the first time I actually felt like I still I hate it, but I still see that God is in it, even in the even in the heart, he's there with us.

SPEAKER_01 30:41

Bro, we're we're five years past Kayla and Andrew, Kayla and Landry died in the car accident. Five years past it. Okay. And I'm coaching my son in baseball this year, and uh in a different league with different people, most people that I don't know for the most part. That's just you know how it worked out and everything. And so one of my assistant coaches, the first practice, we're talking about things and this, this, and that. And I've never met this guy, I don't know him from Adam. And we're having a conversation, and he was like, he was like, Man, I just want you to know I watched that funeral and I've and I've prayed for you so many times. Um, and I had Kayla in in class in college, and and man, she was such a light. Five years, bro, five years, God's still using it. That's right. Often, often, and that's happened to me several times already in 2026. Um, like his ways and his story and his glory and all of it, everything about him is so much bigger and grander than our little peon brands can handle. We just we can't handle, we can handle what he's doing in our life, much less what he's doing in all of the lives. But he is bringing about the most amount of good for the most amount of people for the longest amount of time that can possibly be done. And when you truly settle on that being true in your heart, not in your mind, but when you accept that as true in your heart, in your heart of hearts, in your soul, in your emotional self, it deep, the deep that person, that thing that is you, when you accept that there, there's a beauty that happens and it becomes apparent in life that you don't otherwise see. There's a blind that comes off of you that you you now see things in a way that you can't see it, you couldn't have seen it otherwise. Um, he's just so good, but you gotta get out of the way to see it. Right, that's right.

SPEAKER_03 32:41

And y'all have both said it a couple of times. I just want to reiterate it. All of these things work because he's doing them for his glory. And we we at some point see the good we we receive the good, even though it, like you said, you wouldn't choose this, but you can now see good that's come out of things because he's being glorified. Like that's that's where the good if if we don't allow him to be glorified, then there won't be any good. Right. It's if it was for not.

SPEAKER_00 33:15

Yeah. Oh, right. The only thing worse than going through tragedy is going through tragedy for no reason. Exactly. There'd be no hope in it, no doubt come from it.

SPEAKER_03 33:24

It yeah, right. You know, and I think something's cool about Lazarus in this, but you can you can look at all of the miracles, and I would say, you know, this was the most amazing thing that that they saw Jesus do. I mean, like making the guy see that was pretty cool. This this guy getting up and walking, but now this guy's dead and he comes alive. But every single one of them has this only has the same response for why why are you why can you see? Why can you walk? Why are you alive? The only response they can give is because Jesus, because Jesus said get up, because Jesus said walk, because Jesus said see it. Why are we why can we uh enter into the kingdom because Jesus said we can come. That's like it's it's always that gonna be that answer. That's the and I like don't miss that, that that's that was the story of his ministry. Everything he was doing was to lead up as I am the only way. Yeah, I'm in charge, I'm I'm in control of all of this, and I speak these things and they happen.

SPEAKER_00 34:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:29

So it's just let's not miss that.

SPEAKER_00 34:32

Yeah. Well, and I think in reality, even even in the story of Lazarus, we see that people who loved Lazarus and who loved Jesus still tried to interfere with God's plan because they knew better than Jesus did. You know, we see Martha go to him and say, Lord, don't remove the stone. By now he stinks. Like this is gonna be embarrassing. He's lived his whole life, he doesn't deserve to be disrespected in this way. Jesus, please don't remove the stone. But the reality is, if Jesus doesn't remove the stone, even if he calls Lazarus out, how's Lazarus get out? You know, we've got to do that. And so she was doing that from a place of love.

SPEAKER_01 35:14

She's not repelling, she's not mad at him, none of those things. I love you said you said this in your sermon. You said, she said, you said in Martha as first person, I asked for a miracle. Jesus, you didn't come through, so now I have to do something. Yeah, you know, and and and now we want to take the reins of things. And she the reins are, Lord, don't embarrass, don't now embarrass, my brother. Yeah. Like, don't don't do that. You know, I love the way you think about it.

SPEAKER_03 35:38

She was she was still saying, like, I've I've I know you could have done something if you'd have been here. She wasn't saying you just I know you could have, but it's too late now.

SPEAKER_00 35:47

But this situation is lost. The hope is lost. And I think that's a good reminder for us is that you know, maybe we're in a marriage and we've we've pretty much given up. This marriage is unhealable. It's not, it's not too late. Uh maybe we're we're struggling with addiction and we say, man, we've gone through we've gone through the process and we've gone through the rehabs and we've gone through the through the counseling. I just can't beat it. It's just got a hold on me. It's not too late. And sometimes people will give you advice thinking they're helping, but any advice other than Jesus can do this. Jesus can do this. Sure. Um, then even good people can can can get in the way because they don't understand the workings of God. It's not that they don't love God, and it's not that they don't love you. It's just they they don't see the big picture. Well, God could have rescued us from this, or He can bring good someday, but what's He doing today? And uh man, I think there's there's a lot of situations and there's a lot of people, even Christian people, who are floundering in darkness and thinking that it's too late and they've gone too far and they've sinned too much, and this this thing is too big. And if he can raise a dead man from four days dead, he can work in your situation.

unknown 37:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:12

And we just we just gotta let him. We just gotta let him. And that's empty.

SPEAKER_01 37:16

Anything is possible. Absolutely. That's right.

SPEAKER_03 37:18

Yep. Uh, you'd asked some some Dusty printed us out some questions that we can discuss here. And one thing thing that's I'm reading them. So are you so focused on heaven that we miss living for Jesus on earth? And I immediately that immediately draws my mind to to the concern of people, the folks that they made it made a quote unquote decision to follow Christ because they feared hell.

SPEAKER_00 37:51

They bought their phone.

SPEAKER_03 37:53

Exactly. And and and and I I think that there's a that that's there's a a proof of that in that the people that I would because I'm capable of judging everyone's salvation. The ones that I would question if that's the if that's their case, um don't seem to be that urgent to live for Jesus because they feel like they're good. I prayed that prayer. I I even got dunked.

SPEAKER_00 38:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:24

So I'm good. Sometimes we're good. What else do I need to do?

SPEAKER_00 38:28

Got baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and I got baptized in Jesus' name. Just to make sure. Just to make sure. You know, I I think I think here's the thing, and I'm I'm guilty. I'm guilty of this. I'm guilty of this from the beginning of my own walk with Jesus and through times of my my evangelism ministry. Salvation is not about us. And I think this is kind of what Daniel was talking about earlier, too. You know, that that salvation is not about us. Jesus did die on the cross so that we could be reconciled to him, so that we could be reconciled to him, so that he could receive back his just reward, his due reward. But when we think salvation is for us, then we say, man, I want to get saved so that I can go to heaven. I want to get saved so I'm not eternally separated from God. I want to get saved so that I don't have to worry about it, so I can see my loved ones again.

SPEAKER_03 39:25

And we begin to think salvation is our benefits that we get.

SPEAKER_00 39:30

The thing is, like, I am saved so that others can see that the dead can be brought to life and that Jesus still changes lives and they will be drawn to him. My salvation. I am rewarded with heaven someday. Right. But that is not the goal or the purpose of salvation. The goal and the purpose of salvation is to proclaim Jesus Christ. And that's why I've said many times, and and it gets uncomfortable, but I don't believe that you can know Jesus and surrender to his lordship and not proclaim his name to others. I don't think it's possible because that's the whole reason that he saved you, is to bring glory to his name. If my salvation isn't bringing glory to his name, then is it salvation? Right. And this can get uncomfortable, especially with people that have had some of our stories, because when I say like like it, I started sweating a little bit the other day. Y'all know, like, I'm pretty free. I I pretty much say what I think that that God wants me to say, but there are things that so like even when I was like, hey, listen, uh heaven is not the engagement. And I know we have like we hear things here because we've experienced tragedy here, and we're like, man, someday we're gonna be back with our loved ones, someday we're gonna be restored to our family members that have gone before us, someday, and and those are good truths. It's not the purpose or the goal, right? Um, the goal is that. I don't think we even understand it actually. And I don't think people mean that necessarily that way, but it does become an idol.

SPEAKER_03 41:10

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 41:11

Let's just call it what it is. It becomes an idol where I want to be saved so that I can go. You know, I don't know, like I'm not a big social media person, but I've seen videos where people are like, oh, you know, my sister, I don't want to live in heaven without my sister or something, so she better get like I like I understand where that's at. But the truth is that's not that's not what is it's not so that we can do build for the rest of eternity. Right. You know, that's not the goal.

SPEAKER_03 41:37

There's uh more there's people that have better things to say in heaven than uh than us.

SPEAKER_00 41:41

But but it's simply to bring glory to God, and we get so focused on heaven, and we get so focused on hell and separation, which are both realities, but if it doesn't affect what we do right now, it can become an idol. And that's that that was what I was trying to make. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:03

No, you made that point, and it was a good point. Uh, and it didn't make me sweat at all because it's true, it's truth, it's biblical truth, and it doesn't matter how uncomfortable that is for us. Yeah, we need biblical truth said, and we've talked about this more than once on this podcast. That's why the anti-gospel of raise your hand if you don't want to go to hell, say this prayer, you're good. That's why it it has gone past bothering me, and now it infuriates me because it is it is it is anti-scriptural, it is not the gospel. The gospel is not I don't want to go to hell, so I say a prayer, and then uh live a comfortable life, as comfortable of a life as possible, and then I get to go to heaven when I die. That is not the gospel. It is not, that is not salvation, right? And and the simplest example of that is uh, and Brett even mentioned this in this in his sermon, which or in and during the worship service, which I thought went perfectly with your sermon. Brett talked about this leading into our prayer time. What did those disciples ask Jesus to do? They asked him to teach them how to pray. What did he pray at the very beginning of his prayer? God, hallowed be your name. Holy, holy are you, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. That's right. There it is, right there. There's what you're supposed to be doing. We are supposed to be uh acting out, causing being the agents, the ambassadors of God's will on earth as it is in heaven. And not to mention the fact that what people picture as heaven isn't even where we're gonna spend eternity. No. And that drives me insane as well. Like you actually aren't, and that's another reason why I like that that to get saved so you can go to heaven. No, not. Not to the current place that people are currently residing in as believers. That's an intermediate place. That's not even our eternal destination. We get saved to live out and bring glory to God's life, to God, to Jesus Christ with our lives by proclaiming Him with our words, with our lives, with everything that we have. And in the end, we're rewarded with a new heaven and a new earth where the two coexist in the same place, like they did in the original Garden of Eden. We're literally going back to that. And so the whole thing is backwards. And it drives me crazy. And it has created a generation and a half of uninspired, possibly not saved, church-going, decently moral people that have no fire and passion to be persecuted by this world for Christ's glory, have no fire and passion to endure any suffering or heartache for Christ, because they think that the gospel is say this prayer, live comfortably, go to heaven. And that's not the gospel. And it's not no, no. And I'm not saying somebody whose salvation experience, quote unquote, is saying a prayer because they wanted to ask Jesus into their heart. I'm not saying that they're not saved. It's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is if if the reason you said a prayer was so you didn't go to hell, but you didn't recognize that you were a sinner, you didn't recognize that Jesus saved you from that sin, you didn't recognize that you were that that you were that you were giving lordship, accepting the lordship of Christ into your life, which he already has. You didn't give it to him. That's why it's accepting it, that's who he already is. If there's no recognition of any of that, that then there's no repentance and there's no belief in the gospel, in actual Jesus. There's just, I'm scared to go to hell, so I say this magic prayer and I go to heaven when I die. And you're missing out on, I don't want to say the best part, because I know eternity with God and His presence is the best part. I know that, but you're missing out on the purpose and meaning in this life. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 46:10

Well, that that abundant life starts now. The usefulness of what we have.

SPEAKER_01 46:16

Yes. The purpose, like you have a purpose, right? And it's a glorious purpose. And it's way better than work hard, put money into your 401k so you can live comfortably in the last 10 or 15 years of your life and then die.

SPEAKER_02 46:27

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:28

It's way better than that. I'm just saying don't do that. Do that. That's that's just the purpose. Right. It's not the purpose.

SPEAKER_00 46:37

Yeah, well, I think but but I also like this is gonna probably sound weird coming from me of all people, but I I that stuff fires me up, and I get I get really angry, but I also understand that like in my own story, like that might be the beginning point of working out my salvation. Sure. Like, okay, yeah, okay, there's a guy who wants to be. Someday I'm gonna be separated from him if I don't surrender to him. I I think I want to be saved. And I'll be honest, like, I think this is what gets complicated. I think I get excited talking about this because it's it's controversial, and at the same time, I I really believe it. Like, I think sometimes they pray that prayer, and and maybe you know that that's the moment that they begin to think, like, yes, what does this look like? And then they be and and they figure out, like, okay, I've got to repent, okay, I've got to submit, okay, I've got to. And all of this, when we talk about sanctification, all of this is like, for some people, that is the beginning point. And you can have a biblical testimony that says, like, I think it was my beginning point. That's how I started, yeah. I I I heard a certain that scared me to death. And I said, I'm I'm but is that it? Right. And if that's it, then you didn't you didn't surrender. No. You you you had an understanding of something, yeah. You said, oh, okay, well, I'm gonna acknowledge that, but I'm not gonna live that.

SPEAKER_03 48:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 48:01

And I think all of this stuff, when we begin to think about sanctification, it comes down to if I will begin to believe that my life and the way that I live. Now, listen, I'm not the giver of salvation, I'm not the taker of salvation, I'm not the judge of salvation, but the reality is the way that I live, the things that I say, the things that I do could determine whether somebody gets an accurate picture of Jesus and says, That's the kind of Lord I want to serve. Or they get an inaccurate picture that says, Oh, I can pray a prayer, and then I get to go to heaven. And there's really not much difference between me and them. It makes an eternal difference. Now all of a sudden, I don't have to focus on don't say those words because I can't. No matter how bad I hit my thumb and I wanted to, I can't because he's watching me to see what a Christian does in this situation. Now, that doesn't mean that I never do. It means that the focus is no longer behavior modification. The focus is I want every area of my life to represent Jesus in a way that if somebody comes to see Jesus and Lazarus or and Dusty, then what they're seeing is the same story from both of us. And they know that it's real because it's changed me, and it's if it can change me, it can change anyone. And and and then the then the goal isn't to not do this or follow this rule or follow that rule. The goal is just to honor God in every circumstance. If I'm in prison, if I'm broken, know Jesus and make him known.

SPEAKER_01 49:43

Exactly. Know Jesus and to make him known. The more you know him, the more you want to make him known.

SPEAKER_03 49:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:50

And the more of an you the more you realize that it's an honor and a privilege to get to do that, to get to participate in that is an honor and a privilege that he did not have to give you, but he did give you that opportunity. And there's nothing, you will not find anything that brings you more purpose or meaning or satisfaction in this life than knowing Jesus and making him known.

SPEAKER_03 50:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:12

With your with your life.

SPEAKER_03 50:14

You know, I I want to, so earlier this week, um, Kelly had an opportunity to judge a talent show at Henderson State University. And um three of the contestants, two of them sang um some uh a Christian song. One of them did an interpretive dance to one. But it was one of those, like they got to make some comments, and and every single, every single one of those, Kelly asked them, why did you choose that song? You know, and she was and and she was wanting to give them an opportunity. Right. And I'll I every it was three, so all three of those, those teenaged young people in they would they weren't in church, they were in front of their peers. Yeah, secular atmosphere. Every single one of them gave some gospel answer. And one this one kid, and and I I later found out he's a a friend of my daughter's and is very involved with BCM. Now he freaking knocked it out of the park. Like he he left it all out there. Like you could tell he was he's he's on he's does that a lot. He was ready for that. Yeah, he's he was just waiting for somebody to ask. But it was it was encouraging and and not just that, you know, just because somebody sings this song or that you don't always know. They may just like that song, but so they they were put on the spot, and every single one of them, you know, testified to that that something about what Jesus has done in their life and how that song made them remember that. So it was really cool. Um and it but it's just like what you said, like that's that's it. They they gave they were given that opportunity, and that was the nothing else is better than than they made him known in that moment.

SPEAKER_00 51:59

Yeah. Yeah. It would take a lot for for me to dance and glorify God with that. Um not meaning I don't think anybody's glorified if I start if I start dancing.

SPEAKER_03 52:13

But dancing was a different thing, you know. But you know, it was one like she picked this song that was super powerful. And like, why did you choose that song to dance to? Because it so it was it was good though.

SPEAKER_00 52:24

If I dance and God receives glory, y'all know. Y'all know.

SPEAKER_01 52:30

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 52:31

Something's good happening.

SPEAKER_03 52:32

Something good isn't happening. It doesn't say that David danced good in front of the Lord. He doesn't.

SPEAKER_00 52:39

Well, if I just clap and God receives glory, that's good.

SPEAKER_01 52:42

So if you just clap on beat, it would be a miracle.

SPEAKER_00 52:46

God can be glorified even in my off-beat clapping, man.

SPEAKER_01 52:52

Amen.

SPEAKER_03 52:53

Yep. Well, I think we've said where'd Daniel go?

SPEAKER_00 52:59

We made a deal. He's in, I'm tired of y'all.

SPEAKER_01 53:04

Oh, he's just decided to switch over to my phone for no reason.

SPEAKER_03 53:08

That's cool. That's cool. Uh well, I was gonna say, I think we've we've kind of said a lot. Um some I think some really important things. And um shoot, I don't even know. I there's it was just so good. I think we do what Dusty said, we're not, this isn't about us. None of none of this is about us. Nothing that happens to us is about us. And if we can remember that, I think exactly.

SPEAKER_01 53:39

I think where Dusty finished the sermon is exactly where we finished today, and that's when David had served his generation, then he went to, you know, he went to rest in the Lord, and may that all be said about all of us. You know, the way we normally say it is may we be found faithful until the Lord returns or calls us home. That's right. And and that's truly my heart and desire for me and for our church is that we will just serve our generation faithfully. And when it's time the Lord will call us home or he'll return, and either way, it's all good.

SPEAKER_00 54:11

That's right. Yep. That's right.

SPEAKER_03 54:15

Amen.

SPEAKER_00 54:16

Amen.

SPEAKER_03 54:17

Well, we're glad that you uh joined us again for another episode of Build. If you have missed any previous episodes, you can go to FBCdan.com. You can find a link to all of them there. You can go to Spotify or uh Apple Podcast and find uh build at FBC Dan will and uh get caught up on sermons. All of the things are available there to you. Um that's also a place where you can find out how you can get involved and how you can serve because that's what it's all about. It's we we we that's we don't sign up for us, we sign up to serve him. And so uh I encourage you, I encourage you every week to get involved in your local church. If that's our church, come get involved. We can tell you how. Just find somebody that that's that's somebody that's serving and say, I want to serve too, and they'll help you get involved. Um, if you're not with us, find you a church, a Bible preaching Jesus believing church, and get involved and serve there.

SPEAKER_01 55:23

That's right.

SPEAKER_03 55:24

Um, but we'll see you next week.

SPEAKER_01 55:27

Amen. See ya.

SPEAKER_03 55:29

Well, that's it for this week's episode of Build. Remember, what we build with our hands fades. But what we build on Christ lasts forever. If today's episode encouraged you, share it and keep the conversation going. You can find past messages, upcoming events, and ways to connect at fbcdan.com. Let's keep building our faith one brick at a time. We'll see you next time.