Episode 24: Finding Complete Joy in Christ

Are you trying to earn God's favor through good behavior? What if true joy comes not from what we do for God, but from remembering who He already is? Stop jumping straight to obedience and discover the spiritual routine that transforms duty into delight.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Build, a podcast from Daniel First Baptist Church. Build is where Sunday's message becomes Monday's conversation. Each episode we dig deeper into what God is teaching us, talk about how it shows up in real life, and help you keep building your faith beyond the weekend. Let's get started. Welcome to Build, the podcast of FBC Danville, where we aim to build on Sunday sermon, but ultimately build on our relationship with Christ. This week we had a guest speaker, Mr. Hunter McHam, and we invited him to be in studio with us today, but he was um he said he didn't have time to be with bums like us. No, that's not like he just said he had one day available this week, and it was just a day that none of us were available. So that's just the way it works. But we do appreciate Hunter and his willingness to step in and to to bring a great message. Um I was a little bit like I won't say concerned, but I was confused when he said, turn to Deuteronomy. I was like, what are we gonna hear in Deuteronomy? And then like a few minutes later, he said, turn to Lamentations. Um but it was this this was proof that there's really good word in the old testament. It's it exists for a reason, and and you can find such such good rich content.

SPEAKER_01 1:21

Um people just get so hung up on that that the old testament's old, and uh that's I you know I those people are people you shouldn't listen to, number one.

SPEAKER_00 1:41

If they're telling you that the old testament's irrelevant and it's not not good for teaching and and and rebuking and all of the same things that that you would say that the new that Jesus says the new testament, well then they just haven't studied the Bible very long. But uh so I'm just yeah, I'm just joking about that. But it was it was really good, and um I'm I'm very interested to hear what what you guys take away. Dusty was was out of town um lending his preaching services to another church nearby. So we're we're we're glad that we are a church that we're able to send people out and to to continue to minister. That's that's that's I don't know. That's just a good feeling um to know that we've got people out there, not just I mean, it isn't about our church, but it's it's cool to say that that we have people that that are m spreading the gospel all over the world, just like we're supposed to, even if it's just down the road.

SPEAKER_02 2:39

Yeah, you know, it was it was good. You know, I was able to go fellowship, uh go preach with to New Life Fellowship out at Cardin Point on you know Nimrod at Nimrod Dam. And uh it was just it was a cool service. I hated not being here, you know, but I also had uh had flaked on them once before where it was like oh something came up with with my people. I'm gonna be with my church. And uh so I've actually had this on the books for about six months, and so I talked to Daniel, and uh, you know, I appreciate Daniel, you know, giving me, you know, helping me, not just allowing me to go, but you know, encouraging me, like, hey, go and and spread the word, and God, God was good. We had good service, but I definitely hated not being here and I hated missing Hunter, uh Hunter's message, but I was glad I was able to, you know, big big shout out to RQuest uh for making it possible where we can still join in, even when we're not able to be here when it's when it's going on live. So you bet.

SPEAKER_01 3:38

Yeah. So yeah, Hunter was in Deuteronomy, uh, chapter 30. Uh, just real quick, if you don't know, like Deuteronomy um is is the second telling of the law. Um that's what the word Deuteronomy literally means, is to the retail or the second telling. And so it's kind of uh Moses, um Moses knows he's not going into the promised land, and it's him summing up and preparing the nation to enter the promised land before he passes on. So it's a uh it's actually the book that Jesus, as far as the law goes, that Jesus quotes from the most in the New Testament, um, because it is the book that sums all of the first four, kind of sums them up. And so it was a very uh useful practical book in the Jewish culture. So um, and so Hunter preached from there, and it was the blessing and cursings um verses uh do this and you'll be blessed, and do that and you'll be cursed. And um, and the point of his message was finding complete joy in Christ, which is always a timely message. Um, but for me personally, uh, you know, going through rehab and and you know, broken bones and all the things. Um when we said for sure that he was gonna preach, he was like, Well, I've got feeling led to either this message or this message. I was like, uh that one, please. I'll be there and I need to hear that. I'm sure somebody else needs it, but I know I need that one to go down. Um, and so it was great, but great job. That the kind of the kind of the um takeaway, uh, if you if you will, was that three words in order to have complete joy in Christ, we need to remember who he is, what he's done. Uh we need to return to him when we do that. Uh yeah, Rowan getting his his cameo in. Uh return to him and worship and then obey with our heart and soul. And that often uh when when we want to find joy, we want to jump to obedience. If I will obey, God will give me what I want instead of remembering who he is, worshiping him uh and obeying him with heart and soul. And and in obeying with heart and soul, knowing that God doesn't owe me a thing, that I'm not, I do not have the power to control what God will and will not do um based on my perceived obedience. And then another point, he made a bunch of points that we'll get to or we may not get to, but um another point uh that that that Hunter made was um oh my gosh, didn't he? Your mind just goes completely, and I mean completely like um that the other another point that he made was, and we've talked about this on here before too, um, in different ways, but that um uh that the outside looks the same. The obedience looks similar to us. Yeah, yeah that that the action looks similar to us, but that the inside is what God sees and what God judges on. And that's why it's obedience with heart and soul, it's not obedience with your behavior. Um and and so that I love the way he brought that point home. Um, but just that overall reminder that that to find joy and to find satisfaction in the Lord is not done in our own strength, that we have to remember who he is, return to him in worship, um, and and and of us out of that sense of awe and grandeur and love for the Lord, we obey with heart and soul and not drudgery. And uh it was a great message, man. Very timely, very timely.

SPEAKER_00 7:24

Yeah, I think uh, you know, it feels like it hasn't been that long ago, but I'm sure it has if I started looking at dates that we you know had we we already talked about being reminded of the joy and that joy is different than happiness, and but I think it's probably yeah, exactly. That's it. So it has been a couple of months, but I think that it's pertinent and probably necessary every few months to be reminded of that because how quickly we forget.

SPEAKER_02 7:54

Prone to wonder, buddy. Absolutely, yeah. We give we give the ancient Israelites a hard time because it felt like they were always forgetting who God was and who they were. But uh really if if you looked at my story from Salvation Till today, it would be the same, it would be the same story. How how often does this knucklehead forget who God is and what God's done for him? And and so it was good to uh to be reminded of that. I thought Hunter did a good job of you know a couple things that I really took away, and I know we'll dig in maybe a little bit into these later, but um, you know, Hunter talked a little bit about the the dangers of the prosperity movement, and not that not that it's wrong. He used the word prosper. God is gonna prosper us when we're obedient, but it's that the emphasis is in the wrong place. That that the prosperity comes from satisfaction with what God has already done for us. That we might get material things, we might see what some people call call prosperity, but uh the reality is that we uh have already been prospered just by knowing God and by remembering who he is and what he's done, by returning to worship him and then the opportunity to obey him is prosperity. It is bringing satisfaction. Um it's kind of like in this world, sometimes we do jobs that aren't going to get us rich, but they enrich our lives, and we feel fulfilled by just doing them. And that's uh uh I thought Hunter did a good job of bringing that out that these things are fulfilling within themselves.

SPEAKER_01 9:36

Right. Well, I mean, there's really four camps when you think of that, and like, and so we all I think we probably hopefully we probably all know people in these four camps. Like you you know people that are worldly wealthy and miserable, yeah, but I also know people that are worldly wealthy and completely satisfied in the Lord. That's right. And if the Lord took every dollar they had today, right, they still love Jesus.

SPEAKER_00 10:00

That's not their identity.

SPEAKER_01 10:01

And then exactly, that's not their identity. And then you know people that that have little that that you know don't aren't aren't in a great position with the Lord, and then you know people that have little and that love Jesus with everything they've got and everything in between those things. And and and you know, we we want to equate prosperity with with worldly blessing, and it it's it's it's it is nice to have worldly blessing to to say otherwise is absolute completely being false as a human being. Yeah, uh, we we all enjoy worldly blessing, but if it's only worldly blessing, at most you're gonna enjoy it for a hundred years.

SPEAKER_03 10:46

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:47

You know, and probably and most likely not that long.

SPEAKER_03 10:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:51

So let you know, let's be let's be satisfied and prosper in things that are gonna last a little longer than that.

SPEAKER_02 10:56

Yeah, you know, that that's hard though. Like if we're just being vulnerable and and authentic and honest, like money doesn't define things to me necessarily, but I can think of like times in my coaching career when I'm sold out and I'm trying to, man, I'm trying to honor God with the way I coach, with the way that I'm living my life outside of coaching, outside of my profession. And then, you know, you you get in there and you're like, uh, I read in scripture where it says that everything David did prospered. Like, oh, okay, well, that's what's gonna happen. Like when I'm sold out, I'm doing like suddenly I'm gonna be I'm gonna be winning, and and you know, I'm not gonna have enough fingers for all these state championship rings that I'm getting. And you know, and then you get into that season and and I see spiritually God is doing some good things, but then I know professionally like the seat is hot, like you know, the the pressure's on. And I'm like, I don't these things don't uh uh add up, but it's because I was buying into this idea that for God to bless every area of my life means uh that what the world calls success is what I'm experiencing instead of you know what we're we we lost some games this year that I didn't want to lose, but uh I I also have made spiritual connections with with a group of guys that I wouldn't make maybe in all success. Being in the trenches together, being in the the hey, how do we keep pushing through for each other when things are off those relationships?

SPEAKER_01 12:38

Yeah, like you've mentioned, you know, cold you told a couple of stories in the last few episodes about you know the the kid that calls you you know later in life and and needs you in this, you know what I mean, like those are the are the bigger wins. And and yeah, so it's like you know it's hard to keep sight of that sometimes in the heat of it. Hard, it's practically impossible in our flesh. It is impossible.

SPEAKER_02 13:00

And you think, God, like David, everything he touched turned to gold. Joseph, yeah, we look at, but then when we really step back and say, Well yeah, Joseph was in the dungeon in prison, he's falsely explained, and God was blessing him in the dungeon. Maybe this season is the dungeon, you know.

SPEAKER_01 13:21

Right. Well, I mean, but you know, and King Saul was chasing David and that part of the nation and trying to stick him out and murder him and kill him, you know what I mean? Like exactly it's like we want the prospering, but we don't we want the worldly prospering without going through the valley, right? We want the mountaintop without the valley, and it just doesn't happen that way.

SPEAKER_00 13:38

Yeah, you know I something that's I've it was so frustrating, and it's and it's easy still to get caught up is when you say when you when you view things through the world's eye. And I I remember a time in my life when we uh we're in the middle of you know being on mission, like we're actively living as missionaries, and we've forsaken everything, you know, as as the world would say, and and left all that behind. And then I look at somebody that's that was in my life at the time, who I I would say is probably pure evil, again, you know, and and but but by the world would say was incredibly prosperous. Was just and and and then but can but continuing to perpetuate this evilness as they're going. And I remember walking one day just so frustrated. Like, why, Lord, would you let this person do all of this, knowing how malicious they're being and all of these things? What like what about me? Yeah, yeah. And at that moment, though, I where I was standing, I'm looking like I'm standing on a hilltop, looking out over the Gulf of Alaska, and there's snow capped mountains in the background, you know, just this picturesque view of what some people would say, man, if I could just be in that place, if I could live right there, you know, and it it struck me like, well, I have taken care of you. And I'm I'm letting you experience this.

SPEAKER_03 15:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:19

And and and and it was it wasn't about stores of treasure, you know. Because then I because then as I started to unfold all of that, I'm like, well, you know, uh actually you're right. Uh even financially it doesn't make sense, but I'm doing better than I was when I was making way more money than this. So I don't I I I can't make that make sense. So I'm just gonna stop complaining right now.

SPEAKER_01 15:45

You know, that's and like and like Biggie said, more money, more problems, bro. Just because people got more money don't mean they don't mean life's easier. Well that's good.

SPEAKER_02 15:56

And I I know Josh wasn't trying to hurt my feelings there, but he he kind of you know he he did because he he brings it back to the reality. When I am discontented with the things God's blessing me with, it's never about me and God. Yeah, it's always the spirit of comparison of I'm I am doing spiritual things more than this coach, and he's winning. I'm doing more than this guy, and they're building statues of him, and like here I am just struggling. And it's never about the spiritual side of what God has done for me or what I can even do for God. It's it's always, but it's not fair, yeah. Which I make fun of people for say, you know, what I do with middle school, I don't know, coach, that's not fair. And I'm like, oh, oh, it's not fair, it's not fair. Like, life ain't fair, buddy. And Mr. Cover taught us that. But that's right, that's right. But you know, we buy into that trap. I buy into that trap that if I serve more, I should get more, and that's that's dumb.

SPEAKER_01 17:05

Yeah, it's not yeah, and and it and and the other part of that too is too, and I and I don't mean this towards you, Dusty, don't say it that way. Like in those moments of where we're comparing, we're also we also we overestimate our good, yep, and we and we overestimate someone else's wrongdoing.

SPEAKER_02 17:26

Use that dirty word, Daniel. Use it. I'm I'm judging them. You know, we know that don't go well.

SPEAKER_01 17:35

Like we said, we know we judge ourselves off our intentions and we judge others off their actions.

SPEAKER_03 17:39

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 17:39

You know, like I did this terrible thing, but I know what I was trying to do, or what I what I wanted to do. Maybe not, yeah, I was mean in this, but I actually want to love that person. I was just messed up. I just made a mistake. I just messed up. But that person is evil, bad, and wrong, and God's still giving them good things. And the truth of the matter is if God only gave blessings to good people, nobody would ever get anything ever.

SPEAKER_00 18:02

That's right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:03

So we better be thankful that He that the rain falls on the just and the unjust. That's right. Yeah. Otherwise, we'd all be in drought.

SPEAKER_00 18:10

You know, I heard it said the other day that um when we set out to compare, that no matter which way you turn it, it becomes sinful.

SPEAKER_03 18:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:21

Because we're either we're we're getting boasting ourselves up because we're so much better than them, or we become envious and jealous because uh I wish I was just as good as they are. Either way you turn it, it's it it's builds up sinful nature.

SPEAKER_01 18:39

It's an over or underestimation of reality, either way.

SPEAKER_00 18:42

And then we carry around these comparison boxes in our pocket that at any moment we can pull them out and and see how the other half is doing in comparison to us. And and we wonder why we can't get along most of the time.

SPEAKER_02 18:58

And the only the only real comparison is our righteousness, our righteousness is as filthy rags compared to Jesus. That's right. And and but that's easy to say here because that's what I'm supposed to say in the building. Yeah, but it's hard to live.

SPEAKER_01 19:13

Yeah, it's real hard to live. It takes the Holy Spirit to live it. Um and and and unfortunately, the Holy Spirit is not full and manifested in my life every single day because of me, not because of the Holy Spirit. Um, anything good and and pleasant about me is of the Lord, and the rest of it is who I actually am without him. Yeah. So another thing that I like I love that Hunter said, and he actually made a joke about don't let this be the only thing you take away. But but it actually, I mean, the the the spiritual truth in what he was saying was so fundamentally great that I think it deserves mentioning, not just because of the you know of the uh humor in it, but he talked about the waggle. You know, we waggle.

SPEAKER_02 20:05

Josh and I were talking about that before we went on the air.

SPEAKER_01 20:08

Yeah, I mean it's it's so good. Like, and and you know, we all if you've ever played golf, then you know what the waggle is. It's when you're kind of you kind of shaking your club, kind of doing your thing, but it's a way to prepare yourself to do the thing you're trying to do. And and and and and you could whatever you do, you've got something like that. You've got that that waggle or that preparation, that routine. You know, I was coaching my son's basketball team of last year and and worked with him a lot on uh with the team Oliver Free Throws. I was just I was just going around and I was like, What's your routine? You know, go to the some of them will have one, some of them just give you a blank look, and I'm like, look, you got you need to get a routine. And it doesn't matter what it is, but you need to find something, and you may have to find it and change it because you it may take you a little bit to find out what actually works for you. But I was like, whether it's dribble, dribble, spin, or two spins, or just grab the ball and put your hand like where you want it, like you need to have a routine. And the reason for that is you want this to be so routine that the moment doesn't matter. Right. It doesn't matter, and I even told one of them that I think is gonna be a really good basketball player as he gets older. I said, one day you're gonna be in a gym full of thousands of people that are gonna be screaming and hollering at the end of a game, and your free throws are gonna determine whether or not you win the game. And in that moment, if you don't have a routine, you're not you probably aren't gonna perform. But your routine brings you back to the present and helps you perform what you're trying to do. And and and talked about how that the uh the remembering and the returning is our waggle. That that that that the more consistently we spend time remembering, calling to mind, as it says, to call to mind who God is, what he has done, what he will do, what that means. Means for me. And in that remembering and calling to mind, bringing me to a point of worship. The more that is my routine, the more my heart and soul obedience is going to be the result of that. And I loved that analogy. Of course, I'm I love any sports analogy that actually is correct. And it was, I felt like it was a very applicable and true, true analogy there. And so that just that really stuck with me. Like just the routine. Make sure that your routine is consistent consistently remembering and returning in worship who the Lord is. Don't focus on the obedience. Not that that doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_03 22:36

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 22:37

Of course it matters. It matters so much. I mean, it's actually what causes the consequences in our lives, yeah, to a certain degree. Uh but but if you skip straight to that, then it's like walking, it's like jumping out of the golf cart and walking up there and swinging without actually what you know getting prepared to swing. And so I just loved it. I thought that analogy was great.

SPEAKER_02 22:59

Yeah, I I it it was it was a highlight for me as well, just just the idea that one, it it recenters us, it refocuses us, it takes the moment away and it goes back to the heart of the issue. And and this is something I feel like we talk about every week, but it's because it's something that we deal with every week. But it's really it's moving our faith away from behavioral modification and back to where it belongs, which is true obedience comes from the heart. And and we don't know other people's true obedience, we know their actions, um, but we don't always know. And and I think he brought up a good point that sometimes, you know, when you go through that waggle, you go through that routine, maybe the result doesn't turn out, but you've given yourself the best opportunity to be successful. And I thought that was uh that's what we want spiritually. We want to give ourselves the best opportunity to make the best decision in the heat of a moment. And if we wait till the moment to prepare, then those screaming fans are gonna distract us. But if I have my routine and I know, okay, well, look, I know I'm leaning into Jesus. I know that at the end of the day, he loves me. I know that this thing isn't going to move the radar of Jesus is gonna love me less or Jesus is gonna love me more, depending on the outcome. I'm just gonna lean into him and then I'm gonna be content with whatever comes because I've done what I'm supposed to do. Yes, success is in the hands of of Christ. And I just thought, man, that's that's really it's really good. As much as he tried to downplay, like, hey, don't forget, remember Returnal Bay. Uh, you know, remember that. Don't remember just the waggle. And I'm like, but the waggle was really good.

SPEAKER_01 24:52

It really tied the whole thing together. It really did. It really did. I thought it was. And it was it was good. It was good. I I agree, man. I agree. I uh I um I I love a certain you know how the algorithms are on the socials, like they figure out what you like and they start feeding it to you. I love, dude, I love Tiger Woods golf videos. Like I love them. I love watching him swing, I love all everything about watching him play golf, and I have for a long time. Um, and I heard him talk about his putt routine one time, and it's just stuck with me. And now, like I was watching a video this morning of him lining up for a putt at the 2008 or nine, I think eight, uh US Open, the one that he won on the broken leg. He's on 18 green, has to sink this putt to tie it up to send it to a playoff, right? I'm watching him line up and everything, and and he's he's doing his thing and he gets set up. And I said in my head, one more look, because I knew in his routine he was gonna look back at his spot one more time. And and sure enough, he looked and then he putted it and stuck it, and I was like, that right there is exactly what Hunter was talking about. He didn't vary from that routine, no matter what. Yeah, and and we shouldn't either. Yep. Well, in in the spiritual sense.

SPEAKER_02 26:12

Yeah, yeah. Well, and and and to drive that point home, you know, I'm gonna go another sport, also uh a goat. I know this is usually about sheep and in Bill, but we're gonna talk about a goat. MJ, you know, what what allows you to go to the free throw line and shoot your free throw with your eyes closed? Uh is the waggle. Uh is a hundred percent. Uh his his uh whole body knows, okay, dribble, dribble, spam, set, shoot, that even if you take away my sight, uh I know. And I think that's uh the beauty of the waggle spiritually as well. Like I can't see what Jesus is doing in this moment, but I'm just gonna lean into him and what he has me doing and trust the outcome. That's why I can shoot with my eyes close. That's why I can shoot when the crowd is going crazy. That's why I can shoot when you know, make this putt in the biggest moment when most people you know would would pee down their leg a little bit and they're the it's too big. The moment swallows you up. The moment doesn't swallow you up when the preparation is at the level that it's the big moment is just another moment because the action is the same action I've done a million times.

SPEAKER_01 27:29

Yeah. Yes, it the and the the part right there, Dusty, I love is the trusting the outcome part, right? Like that, and that always makes me go to Shadrach, meeting a bed and go, the even if, you know, we're even if came on the radio Sunday we were getting ready for church, man. And that song, like it Lord and I were talking about it, and and like it came along in my life at a at a time where I needed it. This is pre-accident, pre-all that stuff. It was not to do with that, but it was like it that song wrecked me, bro. Like I remember driving down the road like weeping one time because it just like Lord, you know, but truly, like I know who you are, I know what you're capable of. I'm trusting you in this moment. And even if it's not what I think it's supposed to happen, I know whatever happens is what's supposed to happen, is what's best. Um, you know, and just you know, them looking at Nebuchadnezzar and saying, Look, we think he's gonna save us from this fire. But even if he don't save us from this fire, whatever he does is best, we ain't worse than you, bro. We're not doing it. I love that passage of scripture. Yeah, yeah. So the waggle, man, the waggle, we need to be waggled.

SPEAKER_00 28:36

You know, I think that you can even take that a step further. That there we talk about uh in prayer services that there's things that sometimes we actually need to do physically to align ourselves. And and when we when we create a routine of that this is what I do uh when I do this. Now that can also get sideways to where we just are doing things and not falling through. But there but when we when we do it right, that there is like putting our bodies in alignment or our posture or you know, going to this place, whatever it is, there's things I think we can do actually physically along with that, just as we would, you know, it it is, it's I mean this it it all lines up. When you're stepping up to the plate, you've got to be mentally ready, but you that that there's that physical thing that you're doing that helps tie it all together. And I think it's the same thing. When when you know that it's it's I'm gonna I I do this when I worship and and and then and then I didn't manufacture that. That's that was what I naturally did. And now I I know for me, the things that I do, if I'm not playing the guitar, if I'm not leading, if I'm just involved in worship, this is what I do physically, and I and I know that that's when I'm I'm actually in it. And so I you know, it's like it's all of that.

SPEAKER_01 30:07

I love that. And and and you know, then people start putting there as well, you know, it's from the heart, that's what matters. It's like that is that is true, but we are embodied beings. Yes. Like it's we we discount and and hate on our bodies so often, but we are embodied beings, and our and our our fleshly nature is going to die, and we should get rid of, but our bodies are redeemed, not just our souls, yeah, our bodies. Yeah, it's not our souls that go on to eternity, it's all of us, every bit of us. And so, you know, there's not a single other instance in life or or or arena in life where anyone would rationally say this thing that happens wouldn't affect me physically, right? My body, or I wouldn't respond or do something with my body, or I wouldn't prepare my body in whatever situation it is, sports being the easiest analogy for that, well, at least for our for our broken brains, right, Dustin. Um, but you know, no in no other setting would we, you know, and the example that I'm thinking of is like we we often say, like, you know, you don't have to come up to the altar and pray, but there's something about there's something about your body physically doing something that shows surrender, that helps align body, soul, spirit, you know, all together. And it's like, well, you know, it's from the heart, that's what the Lord judges. Like, yeah, so that's true, but if you never have a physical response to Jesus, yeah. The question is, but even beyond that, even beyond that, you're missing out. Yeah, that's the thing, you're missing out because you're not you're not a soul that has a body, yeah. You're a human being, like it's all integrated, it's all one thing. If it wasn't, then then our body wouldn't resurrect.

SPEAKER_03 32:02

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 32:03

But they do, and that is the hope of Christianity, it's bodily resurrection. And so we should not discount the physical and the spiritual aspect of things. We shouldn't discount that.

SPEAKER_02 32:16

Yeah, and that you know, I think that's why you know I get I get self-conscious sometimes because I go to the altar a lot. And and there are times that guy. Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, uh, didn't he fix this last week? I mean, what's the deal? He already forgot, uh, which is sometimes true. Um but I think it's that it's that idea that well, one, you know, I can remember as a small child going to the altar to pray for my dad that he would that he would be saved, and praise God, you know, he he answered that prayer. Um But then I can also say that when I was in rebellion against God, even when there was that tugging because I was still going to be a church, I had to be a church, but I wasn't seeking God. I didn't want to do business with God. And there were times that you know God would tug on my heart and be like, bro, you can forget about it. Like I ain't there's power down there, and I don't want to be around your power. And now, you know, to me, there's such a uh surrender of uh God, the pride in me fought the call for so long. I want to remind myself that it is about you and it is not about me. And I don't have the power to fight you even when I want to. And it's just such a there's so much, you know, in 2nd Corinthians chapter 12, when Paul's talking about uh, you know, when I'm weak, then I'm strong. It's there's so much power in the weakness of just uh bowing and acknowledging like Jesus whether I need you because things are good and I just I just want to feel I just want to feel you, or things are horrible and I just need uh to feel you like it doesn't matter, you know. It's uh Addie's 20 years old and you know she came over to our house last night and sat on the couch and I'm like this is a big couch, Ad. And you know, you're you're uh I I didn't think that. You know what I'm saying? Like my first thought was like that's sweet that I I love that she still loves me and wants to be around her her dad with all of the space we have in our living room. She's sitting right here and she leaned on me and and we're talking, and I thought, man, that's the beauty of the altar for the Christian is could God meet with me in the pew the exact same way? Absolutely. But there's something about going to that place of intimacy with God. Like I'm gonna go where I feel like I'm leaning on his shoulder, where I'm leaning on his chest and then saying, Yes, dad, like I'm struggling today, or dad, things are good. I just want to be with, I just want to let you know.

SPEAKER_01 35:14

It's not that I'm doing the physical thing because if I do the physical thing, then then God owes me, or God has to, or there's a better chance of this happening. It's not that. It's that I am broken, yeah, and anything that I can do when the spirit leads me to do it physically, anything that I can do to help align those two things, spirit and body, that's a good thing.

SPEAKER_00 35:41

You know, uh and so on Sunday mornings when when we're when we're like publicly opening up the altar and and making everyone aware this is what we what this time is for. Um you know, I've gotten to where I say two different things because that I mean it's you know, it's all kind of metaphorical, really, in the sense, but it it still it creates that physical uh outpouring of it that okay, if you've got something that's that you're carrying with you or to burden you, then bring that to the altar. Because the altar is where things went to die. They were placed upon and sacrificed and given away back there. And then, but if you have something that you want to celebrate at the feet of Jesus, come and kneel and now it becomes that place. Or if you just feel that it's it in his presence, then come come here and let this be the place where you meet him. Now, again, can all that happen in the pew 10 feet from there? Yes, but just physically aligning our bodies changes things. And if you in and I think you said like if you've never done it, why not? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:52

Well, and the other thing too is though all those things are true personally for you and you alone. If you're in what whatever, like you may have a like I know people in our churches that have prayer closets and all these, you know, right these places, like it's true, but don't for a second discount the when we're together congregationally, the power in that to love and spur on and encourage others as well. It's you're it's not just about you and your personal relationship with the Lord, it's about the family of God and the congregation together, and there's something in that. And if you don't believe that, then you've never witnessed that because once you witness it, you you realize the power in it. That that physical change in the congregation helps spiritually.

SPEAKER_00 37:43

Yeah, so so like for me, and and it's it's it's sometimes counterproductive for for what I'm doing, usually in those moments, which is singing, in that when when I see people responding, and I don't know what's going on, it may be good, it may be, I don't know, but I see response, I see somebody respond to the spirit, and then it usually intensifies when when the rest when somebody else responds on their behalf. That like that I feel the spirit, and then that always equates to for me, it's it's an em it's uh an emotion outpouring that um usually comes through through tears. And I get kind of choked up and then it makes it hard to sing. So it's and it's kind of counterproductive that I I I I desperately want to see that I you know, or or I want sometimes that to happen for me, but I want to like I love it when I know that the spirit's moving because people are being responsive, but it like kind of sounds bad as far as professionally.

SPEAKER_01 38:41

Well, I want to I want to give a personal example of this, and uh Lord hope I'm I'm just gonna share this and in hopes that everything is okay with me here.

SPEAKER_02 38:51

I'm rubbing off on you.

SPEAKER_01 38:53

Um yeah, exactly. Yeah, this is a I'm I'm pulling a dusty. Um, no, you know, so two weeks ago, Sunday before last was our first Sunday back in church. Um, you know, since since we had a car wreck and you know, I I'm bunged up physically and and all the things, and we have been away for a few weeks, and um and you know, I don't think I've missed three weeks. I can't remember the last time I missed three weeks at church. Uh in a rope. Like I truly cannot, I actually thought about it. I was like, whoa, and you know, I mean you have to go back to college whenever I was in rebellion in the knucklehead. Like that's how long it's been. And and so, you know, thankful to be back in the house of the Lord, right? And and and there's part of you that goes, This is this probably a little emotional today, or you know, there's gonna be something that happened. And you know, of course, you come in, of course, everybody, you know, hugging you and happy to see you and all that. And I made jokes about, you know, I've tried to get here late enough to go and have time to do this, you know. And then Brett says something about, you know, thankful that I'm there, and blah, blah, blah, which I gave him this, you know, spare for that. And we get to our prayer time, okay? And um the people came, the people that I dearly love, and I'm not discounting what they did, okay? Because it was beautiful and it meant a lot to me. Okay, well, let me back up. First of all, the first song that we sang was uh already won, right? Fighting this battle that you you've already won. And like we're halfway through that, and of course, this was hitting me right between the eyes and then the heart and all the things. I'm like, good grief, Britt. Like, come on, man. But it was good, it was good. So that got me started. And then some people come and pray over Lord and I during during the prayer time. Okay. Now, nobody would likes to admit these types of things, but things become normal and expected in your church, uh, in any church. And so, like, there's like we're gonna sing two, maybe three, sometimes four, if we're really feeling crazy, you know, songs once we publicly open the altar like Brett, like like Josh just said. Well, we were past our normal time of prayer. Now, sometimes we will come down, you know, late, and that's and that's fine, but it like it was an unexpected time to be prayed over. Like we, I figured somebody would come pray over us. People came and prayed over us. It was beautiful, it was wonderful, it was so great. But then, but then we're past that, right? We're halfway through what is most likely our last song. Okay, made it, and then a hand a hand hits my shoulder, right? And and I look up and the hand's on my shoulder and on Lord's shoulder, and it's standing bounty. I can't share her personal story, but suffice it to say that she's gone through so much in the last two and a half years and is continuing to fight a very difficult battle. Um, and being a pastor, you know, I know some some details about that that that made this moment more magnanimous for me personally. Uh and so I look, I'm sitting in the wheelchair, you know, and I look up, and Miss Sandy has got her hand on my shoulder and she starts praying over us too. And I lost it. I mean, lost it, booing my eyes out. Because I'm thinking, oh, I know what I'm going through is not fun, but I should be praying for you right now. You should be praying for me. And that's to me, is an example of could she have prayed that prayer from where she was? Yes. Could God do, could God answer her prayer for us? Is she to stay where she was? Yes, 100%. Did it mean and matter more to me? Yeah, because she did what she did physically. I can't put a percentage on how much more. Okay, it it something gave me healed that day.

SPEAKER_03 42:35

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:36

Um, and it and that wouldn't have otherwise taken place, and it's because she was physically obedient, and and and so I just love I love her. I love her so much, and I'm so thankful for that moment and for the other prayers too. Like I said, I'm not trying to discount that those things because they did the exact same thing.

SPEAKER_03 42:53

Right.

SPEAKER_01 42:53

Um, the the you know, and the emotional response was because who it was and the unexpected nature of it, because it was, you know, it was past time to pray and all that, and uh and just knowing the things that I know. And uh man, it was just so that was over. I was like, all right, Lord. I knew it was hard to get there that day. Like we it was not easy for us to get there because we're still healing and all the things. I was like, all right. Thank you. Yeah thank you for convincing for convincing us that we needed to come today. And just it's just uh how do you make it this world without without your church, man? Without your family. Yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 43:36

Well, it's a good reminder, and everything that you guys are saying is just a good reminder when we talk about those invitations or the prayer times, or I firmly believe scripturally that every time we come together to open the word of God, that we all are called to something. And you know, I used to think as a young preacher, like I've got to give the invitation. I gotta lay it out so that they know exactly what they're supposed to do. Well, that's dumb. That's the Holy Spirit's job. I I think everybody has uh something. We all should leave differently than we can. We all should, and so sometimes that is the call. Go pray with Daniel. Go pray. Go, you know, sometimes it's there's sin in my life. I need to go confess it. Sometimes it's there's someone I need to pray for so that I can go tell them about Jesus. Sometimes it's, you know, Jesus, thank you because I'm keenly aware that you're working in my life and I don't deserve that. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 44:38

Whatever it is, sometimes it truly is sit there by myself in contemplativeness of the grandeur of God. Absolutely. Sometimes that is what you're called to.

SPEAKER_02 44:48

Absolutely. There's not always a physical action, but sometimes there is, and it is so encouraging to see people just say, God, whatever that next step is, for me, I'm taking it. And I don't know what it is. I'm still I stand back. I don't know what that next step is, but I see you're obedient. You're you're you're saying, you're humbling yourself and saying, God, I'm taking that step. And and I may never know what that step is, and that's okay. But I just love to see people surrender, humbly say, God, whatever that next step is, I'm taking it. And I think that that's what happens when we go to the altar. Everyone else says they're taking that next step. Whatever it is, they're taking it. And and and personally, as a youth pastor, um, outside of seeing people saved, which y'all know that's you know, I mean, obviously for all Christians, that's our goal, but like that's I get I get very fired up in that vein. But outside of that, to see men take their families, take a child, take their wife, take the whole family to the altar. Very few things encourage my soul, and it reminds me more that I can't be responsible for the growth of all of these kids, but I also shouldn't feel like I am, because these men and a mother doing it is is awesome too. Sisters doing it, brothers doing it, but there's something about seeing that man say, uh, come on, we're going to the altar. As a family, we're gonna we're gonna seek God together, or we're gonna praise God together, or we're gonna give the situation to God together. It fires me up. Like I I almost can't stay in my pews when I see it because I just want to be close to it because I know that's where the presence of God is.

SPEAKER_00 46:57

I think it's the uh just because men for so long have taken on this this stoic uh you know, nothing will sway me, I stand here and and have no emotion because I'm a man. Even when when a man comes by themselves, yeah, yeah, like to just like shedding all of that off, and that I I have to be subservient in this moment and I will bend the knee here. Like that's powerful just in itself. And then and then what's even like it's what you described is fantastic, but I also love to see when that man comes, that his child comes alongside him, or like that, like that, because then you know like that's what's being propagated within their home. Like that child knows I need to come alongside my dad now. Like that's that's big.

SPEAKER_01 47:52

I don't remember what pastor it was. I wish I see it at the moment to give them credit, but um was talking about this, I heard within the last six or eight months or so, but um talking about that that subject of man in worship and those types of things, and and he said, like the first thing that the Holy Spirit used to help this young man at the time realize like this this matters, this is real, there's something going on here beyond just purpose level and all that was in a worship service, in a inner church service, and their thing, and and like his the the guy is a he's kind of a funny guy, and he was he's like, I've seen my dad cry like three times in my life, like ever, you know what I mean? And he said, We're in a worship service, and there was a story that led up of what they were going through and all that. He said, But I'll look up and my dad's just ends up weeping, stinging his eyes out, singing his heart out, you know, as he's going through that. And he said, Something in me said, This like this matters, yeah. Like God matters being together and worshiping matters, but something about this that is beyond what him and his child looked child did not at the time, but something clipped like oh, okay. This is different. And and I I thought that is that is so true because I even remember the church that I grew up in. We would do this uh all time, and it if you were new there, you wouldn't know it till you know your second person, but there were prayer cards in the in the back of our peace. Uh right before they took the or right before they were taking the offering, the deacons left the aisles and and people held those prayer cards up. And anybody that had a prayer request, you know, they they would have both aisles, the deacons would take those to the altar to pray over those. And I have fluid memories of that in my brain. That I I I remember like I was just thinking, that is awesome.

SPEAKER_03 50:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:10

Well, even at a young young age, I'll I'll even really get that, but that that's special. There's something about that that feels different than just you know the rote, the rote stuff, and and uh and I would say probably is part of the reason that has led us to be, you know, so serious about congregational prayer, like being in a church that took prayer seriously.

SPEAKER_00 50:33

Because I think like that's that's essentially what we have going now. We just try to try to encourage people to do that in person. Like, don't just hand the card off. You come forward and somebody will pray for you.

SPEAKER_02 50:43

And we'll pray over you.

SPEAKER_00 50:44

Yeah, absolutely. You don't have to come, it you're not alone. And and and you know, every week I feel like a broken record, and I'm sure that those that come every Sunday get tired of hearing me say the same thing, but I but you have to because there might be somebody that doesn't know. So I don't want them to be unaware of what's going on. But also, um, you know, all the people that know better than we do say that by the time that you're sick and tired of saying something from the pulpit that they're just finally heard it for the first time. So it's important that we keep saying the same things, but like I always always say, come forward. There's somebody here that's willing to pray for you, or like nowadays it's you're not gonna pray alone, it's become so it's like we were it's now part of our culture more that people will get up from the aisle from their seat and come pray with people, you know, just because that like somebody else comes forward uh and we've got people on standby, other people might go, I need to go pray for for them now. And so that's really cool. But you know, we we joke a lot of times after service. If we don't, if a Sunday goes by and somebody doesn't come forward, you know, we'll make a joke. Like I guess, I guess the Holy Spirit didn't have any business to do with anybody this week. But we know that we're saying that to each other tongue in cheek, because like like you said, there's things happening all over that we just may not see play out. Um, but I also that's again in my in my week after week narrative of that I just want people to be aware that the spirit's moving because he is. He's he's it's it's we're never together that he's not amongst us, but we can also be turned off to that, and so I I just love you saying Josh, I just love how normal that's become.

SPEAKER_01 52:42

Yes, yeah, how normal it's become, and that and that's the joke that that's why we make that joke. Is we it's because it's like, well, that was weird. Like no nobody came to the altar. Like we're used to, it was like somebody came to the altar, you know, and now it's like if nobody comes, it's like, what is wrong? What are we doing?

SPEAKER_02 53:02

Yeah, yeah. Well, well, again, you know, I'm talking about uh a lot of things from the perspective, you know, uh as a dad, but also as a youth pastor, like the culture has gotten to the point, and I honestly I say gotten to the point. Like I I think sometimes our kids start it. I think sometimes they're they're on the front end of things, not on the back end of things. But I love man, you know, we'll have we'll have a we'll have a youth go to the altar and all of a sudden the youth section is empty because they're there with them. And I think, man, that's that's what it's about.

SPEAKER_00 53:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:36

Like that nobody, nobody prays alone, nobody fights alone. We're in it together. Um, because next week I might be the one down there needing somebody to come alongside me and put a put a hand on my shoulder and say, hey, what you got? Because I'm praying, I'm praying for you, brother. I'm praying for you. Right. And and and then also God's been reminding me over the last several weeks, like uh what we see is only the tip of the iceberg. I don't know how many conversations I've had, phone calls, text messages that I've had that's like, hey man, I didn't I didn't come forward, but like this is something I need you to pray about, or this is something I want to talk to you about, or can we meet later? And and I'm like, dude, that's that's where it's at. Like it's it's sometimes my mind works like I bet I I better go now. Right. I better go now. And sometimes that's the right move, but sometimes these God is just stirring their heart and stirring their heart and stirring their heart. And it may be Tuesday, like, hey man, uh, can you swing by and see me sometime? Or hey, I need to give you a call when you got a free minute. And God's moving in our church, God's doing some things, and I'm thankful for it, and I'm thankful to be uh able to see it and experience it and be a part of some of it. Um but God is God's moving, and I think it comes from a a culture and a mindset of we're seeking him, whether that's at the altar, or whether that's in our quiet times, whether that's uh you know, uh a prayer service or whatever it is, we're actively uh seeking him out, his will, his presence, and his people coming alongside each other to really keep that heart stirred up. And um it's a fun time. It's a fun time.

SPEAKER_00 55:23

Amen, Burf. Yeah, you know, I think it it's uh this may not be the case, but it makes me think you know, we have been doing that corporate prayer time now for it seems like a really long time. It may not have been so, but it's it's because it has become uh what we do, but there's still, I think, so many uh barriers that people have built up over years of what's what's normal, quote unquote. And and you know, they struggle, I think, sometimes with that during the midst of it. But um where we're kind of now we're constantly seeking that. Right. We desperately want that. And there's some people that I think have that, I don't know what's going on. I feel this thing, but it won't when it won't go away, like you say, when it's Tuesday and that thing's still there, yeah. Well, that's the Holy Spirit. And but it but it takes some it takes some some getting used to to that. And I but I'm loving that that we're we have continued to kind of break the the the norms of what what church had become, not just in this church. This is you could you could uh uh set this in any church, probably in the south, and see and see some of these similarities where but it's kind some overcoming has had had to start taking place. Um but it's so it's so fun to to be able to to see it happening, yeah. And I'm so grateful to be a part of that.

SPEAKER_01 56:59

Amen. Amen. Remember, return and obey, baby.

SPEAKER_00 57:03

There you go. Don't forget to go. Don't have a waggle, get it.

SPEAKER_01 57:06

Yeah, don't have a waggle, get a waggle.

SPEAKER_02 57:08

Absolutely. Huge shout out to Hunter. Yes. Uh again, just super thankful for him and and uh having a having a dude like that in our community and and the things that he's done. Um, you know, with his his church to have him come in and help us out this week was awesome. Uh, but I do want to say, you know, if you're if you're in town, if you're local, you catch this before uh this coming Sunday, we are having senior Sunday. We're gonna be uh honoring Jesus um first and foremost, but also have a specific time for our seniors afterwards. Um and then I've been waiting a long time to say, you know, hey, Moe's preaching. Can't wait. So I'm fired up.

SPEAKER_01 57:46

I can't stand you knew I was gonna get it in, bro.

SPEAKER_02 57:51

You knew.

SPEAKER_00 57:56

Absolutely. Yeah, we are excited about that, though, for sure. And uh, you know, this has been a really good time. This this hour goes by pretty quickly. It may not, it may not be that way for those of you that are listening. I don't know, but it goes by pretty quick for us as we're talking, and we usually end up sitting here and talking another 30 minutes or more after we hit stop. Um so we could really we could go on for a long time if we needed to. Yeah, just give us a shout-out if that's what you want. If you want more. But I'm glad that that you've uh if you've stuck through this hour. Uh, if you've if this is your first time and you've not heard any of our uh previous podcasts, you can go to fbcdan.com. You can find all the previous episodes, you can find previous sermons. So if what we're talking about doesn't, you don't have any idea, you can go and check the sermon out first and um uh come back and and check it out here. Uh we're also on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, all those places. You can find Build at FBC Danville. And um we're we're we look forward to uh being back with you next week.

SPEAKER_02 59:03

See ya.

SPEAKER_00 59:04

Well, that's it for this week's episode of Build. Remember, what we build with our hands fates. But what we build on Christ lasts forever. If today's episode encouraged you, share it and keep the conversation going. You can find past messages, upcoming events, and ways to connect at fbcdan.com. Let's keep building our faith one brick at a time. We'll see you next time.