Sin is Serious!

What if everything you thought about greatness was backwards? Jesus says true greatness means being last of all and servant of all. Are you managing your sin or murdering it? Are you salt that changes your environment, or just a thermometer reflecting the temperature around you? Discover the radical difference between kingdom greatness and worldly success.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Build, a podcast from Danville First Baptist Church. Build is where Sunday's message becomes Monday's conversation. Each episode we dig deeper into what God is teaching us, talk about how it shows up in real life, and help you keep building your faith beyond the weekend. Let's get started. Welcome to Build, the podcast of FBC Danville, where we aim to build on Sunday's sermon, but ultimately build on relationship with Christ. We were back this week in Mark 9, picking up pretty much in the same same area, continue to unpack verses starting in verse 33 all the way through there, where everyone's arguing about who's the best. And then Jesus goes on to explain to them what it really means to be the best. Because like you pointed out last week, he didn't say, don't try to be the best. That's right. But it's not what you think it looks like. Right. And so he continued to we that was more further explained about what that actually meant. And so I know we'll we'll get into that. There's a lot of things. I know there's a whole section that we've got to talk about because you said you didn't have enough time to talk about it. So we're going to talk about that today.

SPEAKER_01 1:19

Oh, yeah, no. I need to pull my notes up on that and make sure we hear all that.

SPEAKER_00 1:23

And we've got Kelly with us today instead of Dusty. Instant upgrade.

SPEAKER_02 1:30

I don't know. I feel a lot of pressure to sit in Dusty's seat.

SPEAKER_00 1:36

But we'll see what happens. We'll see where that goes. As long as you talk about uh basketball at some point, then being a coach.

SPEAKER_02 1:44

I was a coach for a while.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

That's true. Yeah, they're off enjoying their 25th anniversary trip. Yeah, yeah. So understand well. On a cruise, not a care in the world. They're good to go. That's the best field.

SPEAKER_00 1:57

It is for sure. So we'll welcome them back soon. Yeah. But let's tell us what some things you got there.

SPEAKER_01 2:04

Yeah, let's dig in. We uh this is a a lot of a long verse section, and then the previous week I was just studying, studying, and trying to figure out, trying to pray, try to feel the spirit, like what do you want me to do? Because you you could break any of these down and preach a sermon on any of these verses. But sometimes when when there's a whole section that all goes together, it's better to you feel more led to preach the section. Right. And so I just thought, you know what, we'll we're gonna read the whole section, and then probably it's probably gonna be a two sermons to get through the section, but at least we're keeping it together. And so, like you said, it the the section is about uh the the guys arguing who is the greatest, and Jesus in the most Jesus way, as always, you know, pulls them up, sits them down, and starts explaining like here's what you guys think this looks like, but here's what it actually looks like, and you have it way, way backwards. Uh the greatest in my kingdom don't look anything like what you picture greatness looking like. Um, and so we pick back up kind of where in the middle where it where uh Jesus says, But whoever causes the downfall of one of these little ones who believe in me, it would be better if he had a heavy millstone hung around his neck and thrown into the sea, which is which instantly is like strong language. It's like, okay, like he's going somewhere big here. And we left, we finished there the previous week and kind of picked right back up on that verse. We didn't talk about it much the previous week, kind of started with it this week. Um, and so, you know, it's like it'd be better for you to die than than to be a stumbling block for someone trying to come to faith in me or who has recently come to faith in me and they miss me and growth in me because of your behavior or the way you treat them. Like, do not be that person. Um, you want to be great, don't be that person.

SPEAKER_03 3:56

Right.

SPEAKER_01 3:56

Is what Jesus is saying. Uh and then he goes on, um, and then and you know, hits these verses that that they're they're just hard verses. Uh they're they're so hard that some early church fathers actually like hurt themselves. Actually took it literally. Took it literally, and and would and would punish themselves physically for things.

SPEAKER_02 4:18

I like that you had us raise it. Like you were like, does anybody think this literally?

SPEAKER_01 4:22

Right. Yeah, yeah. We yeah, we re we got to this and we were like, anybody think Jesus is being literal here? Does he do you literally think you're supposed to cut off your hand? And of course, nobody's hand goes up because everybody's sitting there thinking, I hope it's not literal, you know? Um, and then of course my dad talked to me this morning, he listened to the sermon. Um, and and and he was like, My dad is very, very literal, like a very literal person. And when he was younger, it was even stronger than it is now. He said, I'm so glad you preached on that. He said, because you can just imagine my literal brain whenever I was a little kid, like, I don't have a chance, like I won't have anything left. Just a chord. Right. I'm just gonna be chopped all everything we chopped off because I can't, you know, I'm not doing this right. But um, yeah, it's symbolic language, but it's the thing about symbology and this the thing about metaphor and and parable and all of those things is we we we act sometimes like by acknowledging that it's not literal language, that that somehow brings down the the the magnitude, and it actually is the opposite of that. Like it's it's it makes it bigger once you it's like, oh, okay, so it's even more. It's not the literal thing because actually, to be perfectly honest, sometimes uh if my hand causes me to sin, chopping it off would be easier.

SPEAKER_02 5:36

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 5:37

Yeah. Than than than progressive sanctification in my spirit. Like it'd be easier to handle things in physically than it would be to deal with them actually in my heart. Um, and so Jesus says, you know, if you if you if your hand causes you to sin, if your if your foot causes you to sin, if your eye causes you to sin, cut it off or gouge it out. Uh it's better to be maimed physically than to enter Gehenna, to enter hell, to enter uh um the valley of lamentations. Yeah, the valley of lamentations. And so where you know, where he says the worm does not die and the and the fire is not quenched. And so the the the thing about this is, you know, everybody uh I say everybody, like there's this boniker out there now that like preachers don't preach hellfire and brimstone messages, you know, anymore and and things like that. It's like, you know, like you're not really preaching hard unless you're standing on the corner telling everybody they're going to hell. And and I'm not opposed to preaching on hell, like it's Jesus preached on hell, it's a thing. Like he, you know, I think Gehenna is mentioned uh 12 times in the New Testament, and 11 of those 12 come from Jesus' mouth. Um, so he talked about it. I'm not afraid to talk about it. Um you know, judgment is a thing, and judgment should be a thing, um, whether we like that or not. That that's not the that whatever it is a thing. Um but Jesus is not standing on the street corner screaming at the passerby. Right. Jesus is talking to his closest followers, people who are believers and telling them. So the point isn't if you sin, you go to if you sin after faith, you go to hell. That's not the point. Right. The point is the context. You want to be great? Be serious about your sinfulness. You want to be great in my kingdom? Come to me and trust me for forgiveness. You want to be great in my kingdom every time you recognize sin in your life. Don't hide. Don't don't succumb to shame. Come straight to me and let me take this away from you and show you that I've forgiven you for this too. Let me sanctify you continually. You want to be great. This is what it looks like. Serve all, be last of all, be serious about your sin. And then the final part of it is to be salt. Um, and not to look like salt, but to be salt. And salt, no matter how it's used, the the thing that salt always does, whether it's used as a preservative, whether it's used in healing, whether it's used to make food taste good, it changes the environment in which it's entered. It it enters. And I think that is a great way to picture what we should look like in the world. We, as followers of Jesus, should change the environment every time we walk into an environment. We shouldn't be thermometers, we should be thermostats. We shouldn't just be a gauge of what's taking place, we should change the way things feel and the way things are because we love, because we tell the truth in grace, and that should that changes the world. Our words should change the world. How we treat each other, how we treat other people should change the world. And that's that's being sincere, being full of service, yes, and sacrifice. Yes. So that's where we were Sunday, and um again, I don't know, I'm so insecure. Uh, you know, I've preached for a long time and beat myself up on it, and it was great. All the things, so that's where we were.

SPEAKER_02 9:16

I was just saying before we start, the last couple of sermons have been they've been really hard though, because and you said this, like most of our sin in our life happens after we become a follower of of Jesus because of that sanctification process, like you do some of the worst things after you become a follower.

SPEAKER_01 9:35

So what'd you get, Shekel?

SPEAKER_02 9:40

I had so much, like I have a like you had to scroll to see all my notes. Um sin is serious. I think that's the biggest thing is that we don't take our sin seriously, and I think we grieve the Holy Spirit because we're so concerned with everybody else that we're not looking in the mirror. Like you you said a lot of things that I was like, oh my gosh, um I'm trying to find it. You were like, being a normal Christian is garbage. And I was like, Yeah, but being radical is also scary.

SPEAKER_03 10:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:16

And I've I've always tried to say this, and I've said this to a letter a lot of people, but like, be saying be the weird Jesus person, it's okay. Yeah, like I have a desire to want to be that. And if I make people uncomfortable, I want it to be for the glory of God, right? Not for anything else. But being normal is is boring. But why can't we embrace that? Yeah, there's a there's an insecurity because when we walk into a room when we're not with people that we know believe or follow Jesus, when we walk into that room where we're like trying to size each other up and like who's who in this room, like, you know, instead of just being like, I don't care, I'm gonna be salt. Right. And not in the like salty heifer kind of way, but like in the good kind of way. Right, right. Let me be salt in this room and not be concerned with who anybody is, but just be who you want me to be, Lord. Right. So like there were so many times, and every time you'd say something, I'm like, oh, I'm so thankful that I'm that I'm able to to be on Wednesday nights, like just that con like we should be doing that every single day, though. That time of um where you're just like, Lord, mutilate my heart. Search me. Yeah. Search me and know me and and show me these things because I want to be better. And I'm only gonna be better if you deal with this. But it's so much easier to run away from it and like pull pour myself into this over here and not actually deal with it. Right. And so it it's just been so good, but it's been hard. I don't want to say it's like been discouraging, but there was one time I was like, I think it was after last last week's sermon.

SPEAKER_01 11:48

I was like, I I think I need to just quit everything and just go into the mountains and well, you know, last week's sermon was for the you and me's of the world who find our our worth and validation through serving and helping people. Right. And those kind of messages are hard for me to preach because because I I truly am preaching at myself in a message like that because I know that that is my natural bent. I've learned that about myself. I've become self-aware enough to know that my natural bent is let me show you how much I love you by helping me, helping you. But in turn, appreciate me. Love love me back because I would do anything for you because I love you. So love me back, love me back, love me back. And and Jesus says, No, that's not it. Serve because you love me and trust me to love you back, uh, and and be satisfied in that. And that's where your validation comes from. That's where your validation comes. Your identity is in Christ, not in the validation of anybody else. And when when I operate out of that, when any of us operate out of that identity at that validation, it it all works, it flows, and it's joyful and it's great and it's good and it's wonderful. And and when I'm not, when I'm operating in wanting validation from the world, for uh, you know, to put it in harsh tense, uh, then it doesn't work, it doesn't go well. And I I can operate that way uh short term, and and then I fizzle. And when I'm operating out of my value and identity in Christ, I don't tire out from serving.

SPEAKER_02 13:26

Right, because it's full of joy of his of his joy. And I'm not his perfect strength.

SPEAKER_01 13:32

Yeah. Yeah. And I'm not to say that you don't get physically tired, but I'm in spiritually. Yes. Bone weary, tired. The tired, the kind of tired that makes you beyond. Yes, that makes you want to quit. That that that that weariness in your soul. I don't have that whenever I'm operating out of his strength.

SPEAKER_02 13:47

And that's and that's sin is serious. And I think a lot of times, like when you're growing up and you're, you know, go the normal church goer, you so you think of sin as like, oh, like they're they're they're drinking every night and getting drunk and beating each other, and like you're thinking drugs and alcohol and sex and all the all the sin. You're not thinking about the pridefulness of your heart or the self-righteousness or the jealousy and comparison, just your day-to-day sin nature that enters our heart that we are so blinded to because sin is serious and trials are going to come. So when we're resting in the identity of who we are in Christ, that's when, because you said um fiery trials will remove sin or reveal our desire to be self-righteous. It proves you don't actually trust Jesus or that you or that you do, and you'll be purified. And I think that is why it's so important. And you said this a couple weeks ago on the podcast, um, abide the song and that break, that the bridge, like I depend on you. I depend on you. Like that needs to be the posture of our heart, just a humble dependence upon our savior, because we we can't do it in our own self because it just it never works right. And then when we go through these fiery trials, it's like we're saying, I don't really trust you, Lord. Right. But we know that's not that's not how we want to be. No, so it's a constant look in the mirror and and purify me, but it's not, it's not easy.

SPEAKER_00 15:12

No, and you you and you kind of circle back around and said it yourself, but you first off had said we don't take sin serious, and I think the the actuality is what you said, we we only take certain things serious. We don't take the the everyday, day-to-day, quote unquote normal behaviors that are counterintuitive to a Christian walk, but they're just but they're they're accepted by society, but it doesn't mean that they're good. And we we don't take those serious because it's easy to justify them.

SPEAKER_01 15:45

Right.

SPEAKER_00 15:45

Because the world tells us it's okay.

SPEAKER_01 15:47

I I can't remember who I've heard say this, but it I always thought it was funny, a funny way to say it. But it's like, you know, the kind of the behavior modification thinking of Christianity, uh, you know, is don't drink, dip, or cuss. Yeah. And then you're and go to church. Yeah. And I'm a pretty good Christian. And it's like that's so shallow. Like so that's so surface level finding Jesus. Um it's not heart transformative. It's not hand transformative, heart transform. I I can stop behaviors, certain behaviors. Right. Anybody can have enough willpower power to stop certain behaviors for a certain amount of time, especially you know, certain ones that are easier than others to stop.

SPEAKER_00 16:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:28

But but that's not what Jesus is trying to do. If when we transform from the inside out, the fruit bears. When he when we abide in him and his ways, and he is transforming our minds constantly, then the fruit bears out. Uh, and we don't produce that fruit. It just bears out in our lives.

SPEAKER_02 16:47

He's not telling us you go produce fruit. He's saying abide in me.

SPEAKER_00 16:49

Abide in me and he'll produce it. This is kind of this example isn't perfect because it is about some of the things that you were just saying that are easy to change. But like I just recently heard someone, they were kind of in shock that their young child had used certain language. Can you but can you believe it? And I just had to look at them and say, No, like, well, I know where they learned it. It was like, but it that's the fruit that's being bore out of that versus the uh, you know, if you don't ever say that, well then they've picked that up somewhere else. But like I know where they learned that from because that's what's coming out. Right.

SPEAKER_01 17:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:29

That's that's what that's that's what you know, I said it's more than just signifying your tongue, but but but whatever it is that's coming out of you is getting picked up by everybody else.

SPEAKER_01 17:40

Another analogy I've heard on that that I always that always made sense to me was like trials, persecutions, all those things, that they they prove what's on the inside, right? And so you don't you don't squeeze an orange and get pineapple juice. Right. You get orange juice. You get orange juice. And when the and when life, the trials, when temptation, all those things, when they when they put pressure on you, what's inside of you comes out. And what A, what we need to recognize is if pressed hard enough in the certain ways, sin is what's going to come out.

SPEAKER_00 18:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:13

Because we're sinners.

SPEAKER_00 18:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:15

Uh and when something good comes out, it's because we're abiding in Christ and his fruit is bearing out of us. And and and that is the the the way Romans puts it, that is the war that continues. That is the war of being Christ, being a Christ follower in a sinful shell in a fallen world. Is is the battle of flesh versus ver versus spirit. Um, and it's a battle that doesn't end until Christ returns or until we're glorified. It doesn't end until we're glorified, which is either when he returns or when we die. Right. One of the two. Um, and and either way, when we are resurrected, and to I like that's why I say so often, like I cannot wait for that to be in a glorified body with a purified spirit that only honors Jesus with what I do.

SPEAKER_02 19:08

That you're not in constant conflict with your flesh.

SPEAKER_01 19:10

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 19:11

Because that it's congruence.

SPEAKER_01 19:13

Yes. Yes. Just congruence all the time in the presence of Jesus, just pure unadulterated joy and goodness and loveliness and gentleness because like I don't do that. All the fruits of the spirit, the fruits of the spirit, right?

SPEAKER_02 19:30

They are just in it.

SPEAKER_00 19:33

And that's not that's the thing. Uh, we we could gather 10 people in here, and everyone's gonna have 10 different views on what after life looks like or what's happening. But it's real, the reality is it does not matter because it's going to be perfect. So whatever you think that it should be probably isn't going to be, but it's going to be better because it's going to be absolutely perfect. It's the thing that that you wish that you you dream, it is the thing you dream of. Right.

SPEAKER_01 20:02

Well, uh the thing about the thing about heaven and eternity, and and I try to differentiate sometimes because like heaven now is not heaven forever. Like there, there it's all different, like this conversation is so deep, and we use these terms all the time. And most of the time we know what we're talking about, but it can be confusing. But like Jesus is the price. Yeah. Right. Like Jesus is the price. Being in his presence is the price. And if you don't realize that or don't want that, then what do you have faith in? Like you have you have faith in some fairy tale heaven thing that exists where you get to hang out with your buddies or your loved ones for the rest of your life. But like Jesus is the price, being in his presence is the price. You that that's why, like, we one of the songs we hadn't sang in a long time. I'm not advocating, but it just came to my mind. Like, you're beautiful. Like that, that's the thing about that song. And sometimes those kind of songs can be uncomfortable for a man to sing because you're, you know, you're a man singing to Jesus who's a man, and it's like you, it's like, no, it's not that kind of beautiful. Right. It's not like it's not the way I you see a beautiful woman and go, wow, that's beautiful. It's it's way beyond that. Yeah, it's beauty in its purest form. Like being in Jesus' presence is going to be so good that we have language that tries to describe that.

SPEAKER_02 21:24

Right.

SPEAKER_01 21:24

And we get focused on the the things and the environment and forget that it's being in Christ's presence is what eternal life is. And we get to experience that in pieces now when we're in his presence. And he's living through us. Like that's that's the joy now. Right. We but now we know in in part, and and and and later we will know in full. And and that's really what love really is is to is to know and be fully known. Like, and that's what the beauty of sanctification is. Like The more you go back to Christ, it's like, oh, now that I've admitted this, I knew that he kind of knew this about me, but now I've like admitted this. And he still loves me.

SPEAKER_02 22:09

Right.

SPEAKER_01 22:09

Like he knows me more. I realize now I'm admitting that he knows this part of me and still hasn't, hasn't condemned me. He hasn't forsaken me. Like that's what intimacy is, to be more known.

SPEAKER_02 22:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:22

It's so good.

SPEAKER_02 22:23

It is.

SPEAKER_01 22:24

It's so much better than what we picture it.

SPEAKER_02 22:25

And this is and yes, but we have to want it.

SPEAKER_01 22:29

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:30

And I think it's so sad because so many people are okay with the bare minimum and they're missing this intimate relationship with someone who knows you, who sees you. And I think that that's it just makes me sad because you even said that. Like, um he sanctifies us, but we have to want it. Don't manage your sin, murder it. I thought that was so good too. Don't don't manage this, murder it. You have to, you have to want it.

SPEAKER_01 22:59

You go back to chapter eight. If you want to be my follower, you have to die to yourself. Yeah. Carry your cross. Like you have to murder your sin.

SPEAKER_02 23:08

He has abundant life for us. Yeah. But I just feel like even in my own life, I see it. There's times when I'm just mediocre. I'm just doing the bare minimum. And it makes me so sad at my like it with me within my heart, like Kelly, that God has so much more for you. Like, why are you being lazy? Like, why are you not doing the work? Sanctification's hard, but like, do it.

SPEAKER_01 23:30

See, it makes you sad because you're a better person than I am. It makes me mad. I get angry at myself for my lack of zeal and for my laziness and for just my own safety and security and comfort and living in that. And just there's just sometimes I just get so mad at myself about that because that's the anger that I feel for movement.

SPEAKER_00 23:52

Yeah. You used you used these words and I think put a a a proper um space on them that we should be struggling with with our sin. But that that phrase has become another cop-out in the most part. Like, oh, I'm just struggling. This is something I'm struggling with. I'm struggling with this. And that just means that like I'm not dealing with it. I'm really allowing it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:20

And that and I tried to make that point quickly. And like I'm not saying like, oh, you know, I'm struggling with this. So it's okay. Like I'm no, no, no. I'm not talking about allow. I'm talking about like this should bother us. Your sin should bother us. You shouldn't be comfortable in it.

SPEAKER_02 24:33

You said, don't trust your own righteousness. Be vigilant against your own sin. It's it's wrong thinking if you aren't hard on yourself. Your sinfulness should drive you into the arms of Jesus. Like you said, uh, you want someone to come and tell you, I'm I've got this sin in my life and I'm bothered by it. And you say, Good. I'm glad you're bothered by your sin. Be radical with sin. I think, and that is good because I think we don't want to talk about it because we a fear of condemnation.

SPEAKER_03 25:02

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 25:03

Especially, especially from people that we admire and look up to. Sure. But then we also, that accountability. And I think this sermon, and I was I was so sad that we missed your notes on the last verse about um have salt in yourselves and be at peace with one another, because I I do feel like that's something that the church we we lack now is is just the accountability of being vulnerable in our sin. And and I think too, because we come from a sinful nature, we want to be comfortable in our sin. We don't want to talk about it because we want to keep doing it or we want to keep being involved in it, whatever it is, or we're blind to it.

SPEAKER_00 25:42

And the reason that it's hard is because in our sinful selves other people's sin helps us feel better. So and so it's very we want to condemn them because now I'm not so bad. Right. Right.

SPEAKER_01 25:57

And then that and what does that go back to? That goes back to your worth, your identity. And it's in self when you're doing that. And Jesus says, die to that. Right. Die to self. Right. Die to that. Die to ego, die to that thing in you that that makes you feel better when someone else does worse. Die to that. That's not greatness in my kingdom. Yeah. Die to that. And that's like easier said than done, guys. Right. Like way easier said than done.

SPEAKER_02 26:26

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 26:28

Um yeah. So go on to go into that, you know, have salt among yourselves and be at peace with one another. Um, I was really frustrated with myself for not given more time for that because like it's this little add-on at the end of this long section about greatness, and it's easy to miss. And to be honest, I've I guess I've probably missed it most of the times I've ever read these verses until studying for this sermon. And then it hit me, it was like, oh, so like greatness in the kingdom is being a peacemaker. And being a peacemaker is doing this. That's what he's saying.

SPEAKER_02 27:04

Heart transformation. Yes. Not cutting off your wrist, like your heart needs to be transformed.

SPEAKER_01 27:08

Yeah. So yeah, so being last of all, being a servant of all, being serious about your sin, serious about your sanctification, like those things lead to peacemaking. Being a genuine, sincere follower, like actual salt, not not what appears to be salt, but isn't. That brings peace in the body. And I wasn't sure how to say this or or if I should say it, so I I I I never said it, but like so Jesus is using this, these, these bodily references, right? To to and to cut these things out or off, take them out of. And what are we, the church, when it comes to Christ? We're the body of Christ. And so there's a couple ways you could take that. Okay. One, when we sanctify, when we're sanctified, we're doing that for the body of Christ. And then the other part of that is sometimes there's people that don't need to be in the body of Christ.

SPEAKER_03 28:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:10

Because they are gypsum and not salt, and they've proven that uh because their heart is unrepentant. Um and that is something that's hard to do, kind of been lost. The the term we use on that usually is church discipline, right? Nobody likes talking about that, nobody likes doing that because nobody wants it turned on them, right?

SPEAKER_02 28:36

Right, because then it becomes church hurt.

SPEAKER_01 28:38

Right. But there's a difference in being judgy and pointing out everybody's sin and going to someone and with a heart of restoration because sin is serious and sin causes damage. Yes. And we and we address this sin and excuse me, no one gets cut out of the body that repents.

SPEAKER_02 29:02

Because because you're dealing with your sin. Because you're dealing with your sin.

SPEAKER_01 29:05

It's it's when it's it's unrepentance. It's unrepentance, right? So it's like it's like the leg that has gangrene. What do you do? You give it antibiotics, you give it antibiotics, you give it antibiotics. But if it won't respond to the antibiotics, it's gotta go. Right. Right? And that's there was part of me that spent some time on that this this week of like, oh, like we're the body of Christ. Like, what about what about when there's a what about when there's a piece of the body that won't respond? And and it's proving that it doesn't need to be in the body anymore. It gets real uncomfortable real fast when you start going there. Uh but my my granddad, uh, who passed away last July, very, very, very wise man, uh, told me a story a few years back about um one time when he experienced church discipline in his in his church, um, or he saw it done. And man, I wish I had it recorded because he is a phenomenal storyteller. Golly, he could tell the story so well. But the short and sweet of it is, and not the entertaining point of it, is there was a person that was that was gossiping openly in the church, mainly about staff and about the pastor and his family. And it was just just truly untrue things, but it was for hurtful things and all that. And they did the Matthew protocol, went to the person individually, went to the person with a small group, and then there was no repentance, and so then they brought it to a to the church. Um, they called a church business meeting over this issue.

SPEAKER_02 30:35

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 30:36

And gave the person an opportunity to repent in this church business meeting, and they wouldn't do it. And of course, like I said, my granddad, partner, let me tell you what. Next thing you know, there's a motion in a second, and they were voted out of the church right then and there for their blatant unrepentance. And he said, you know, there were some people that were hurt over that, there were some people that were upset over that. But he said their baptism was practically cracking, it was so dry prior to that, and they baptized 52 Sundays in a row. Heck um after that. Because God blesses obedience.

SPEAKER_02 31:15

That like makes me want to cry just because that like that's how serious sin is in the church, and you can't have unity when when you're not dealing with when we're not dealing with our sin. And like I don't want to be that divisive person. Like, I don't want to be that. I don't want to be the the body, the piece of the body of Christ that's preventing salvations and baptisms. Yes, like that is serious. It is serious, and I you know because I first off, I don't want to miss what God's doing. I want to be a part of it. If it's if it's our church, if it's somebody else, I just I want to I want to be a part, I want to see it.

SPEAKER_03 31:50

Absolutely, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 31:52

But if I'm the one that's creating distinction or divisiveness or like a piece that needs to be cut out, that grieves me. Like I don't want to be that. Sin is serious.

SPEAKER_01 32:06

Uh that that's just what I kept coming back to in the preparation for that sermon. Like, sin is serious. Like it, I try to repeat that often Sunday because that really was the prevailing thing undergirding the message, was that sin is serious. We have to take this serious. If you want to be great in the kingdom of God, it's not about your status, it's not about being on the stage, it's not about leading the worship, it's about taking your sin serious and going to the Lord and letting him continually burn away the parts of you that are that are not good. And you know, he he told me that story. I hadn't been the pastor long, that was why he was talking about it. Um, because he was telling me that as an encouragement. Like, you may face this one day. And when you do, let me encourage you. Like, if you face this situation, it will be scary, it will be hard, it will not be easy. But here's an example that I have actually physically seen with my own eyes. He said, I've never seen a church blessed and break out in revival like it did, but it was after the obedience of removing a part of the body that was not supposed to be there.

SPEAKER_02 33:15

Well, and how many times it talks about that in the Bible too, about cutting pruning? Like you gotta prune um the the the fig tree that got chopped down, like it's it's serious.

SPEAKER_01 33:28

Yeah. And pretty what is I mean, you know, we have knockout rose bushes in our in our uh in our flower bed in the front of our house, you know, and what what makes those things grow like crazy every spring? Cutting them down to almost the root. You cut them suckers down to almost the root, and man, within a week, stuck just exploding like it's healthy and good to have the bad dead parts of you removed. It's good for us. Um, so we shouldn't shy away from it.

SPEAKER_02 33:55

And we need people in our life that help us like help bring us to that point. Absolutely, and I think that's what's missing. Like, I'm so thankful to have a husband that is that person for me. And and he does it in a loving way, but like you need people in your life, and sometimes it comes with some hard conversations, and everybody, you can't have that kind of conversation with everybody, right?

SPEAKER_01 34:17

Like I think the this is my honest opinion. I think the primary driver as far as person-to-person sanctification in your life, if you are married, should be your spouse. Your spouse should be the primary driver of your sanctification as far as as far as having someone in your life. Now, ultimately, it should be our heart, our own heart that's driving that. But as far as the influence in your life, that should be, it shouldn't be the pastor, it shouldn't be the Sunday school teacher, it shouldn't be the person you watch online or the books that you like or the podcasts that you like. Those are all supplementary things that are great tools that should be there. But if you are married, that should be the primary person and really the primary thing that your marriage is doing in your life is sanctifying you, drawing you closer to Christ, chipping away, burning away, cutting away the parts of you that do not honor and glorify Jesus. That's what should be happening in a healthy marriage. And that is not easy and fun to do, but it is worth it and good and joyful and loving. It is so loving to to gracefully be that person in someone's life. And I and and and Lauren is that person in my life for me, like she refuses to let me not look at what is true in my life. And and I'm so thankful, so thankful to have that and to have her in my life for that reason. It's important.

SPEAKER_00 35:52

I mean it's important. It's so more so much more important than than what has what it's become. Yes. Yes, like those things are not talked about. Like, I mean, I feel like somebody who makes you happy. Exactly. Yeah, oh, they're in yeah, like, oh, this will be a beautiful family, or they have lots of money, or like all those things.

SPEAKER_01 36:15

But how compatible are your personalities?

SPEAKER_00 36:18

Yes. Like like when when you talk about being equally yoked.

SPEAKER_02 36:24

The person that can call you out, the person that can hold you accountable, the person that's in the floor with you crying because they don't have any words and you're just they're just with you in it. Like just that grace and love for each other, but but and that you love that person enough not to allow them to stay in that, but to pull them out or to say, like, I see that you're struggling in this. What can I do? How can I specifically pray for you?

SPEAKER_00 36:48

And or I come to you and say, This is something that I'm dealing with. Can you help me with it? And then that's reciprocated. Right. Like I not just like it's not always the coming to and pointing out, it's the I'm asking for help, and then that help's provided. Right. Sure. Yeah, that's good too.

SPEAKER_02 37:07

And I want to throw this out there because everybody's not married. You you need to have, I would like if you've got God-fearing parents, like that person, your parents are always gonna love you in a way that no one else does. They're supposed they're supposed to. That's not always the case. So, but you need to have that person, and then that is where your pastor or your Sunday school teacher or someone who you know has a a deep-seated relationship with Jesus that you have pouring into your life. And that's why it's important for us to disciple others because not everybody has a spouse at this point in their life, but they need people that are gonna say we should all be being discipled and we should all be discipling.

SPEAKER_01 37:49

We should all be, we should all have someone in our lives, multiple people, hopefully, that are pouring into our lives, and then we should be pouring out from that. Um, and ultimately it's Jesus pouring into our lives, and he uses people to do that. That is one of the ways that he does that. Um, but that's that's the the flow of healthy life following Jesus is things coming in, things going out. If they're only coming in, that a body of water that water only goes into and doesn't go out of, it becomes stagnant and dead and gross and disgusting. And we don't we don't want that. It's got to come in and it's gotta go out. It's coming in our body and it goes out. If it only comes in, we got problems. That's so true. Nothing's coming in, we got problems. You're right. Right? And so that is discipleship. It's it's love and truth and grace and and all the things of Christ coming into us, and and at the same time, it should be going out of us. And it can't ever be just one way. When you get it one way or the other out of balance, you'll recognize it because it will show up in your life. You know, you start serving out of an empty vessel. That's not good.

SPEAKER_02 38:57

It's gonna show up somewhere. And but the thing is, sometimes I think because we are we are sheep and we can be very stupid, we're blind to ourselves and to our selfishness and our sinful nature. We can be so blind to it and start deceiving ourselves. When I was a teenager, my dad used to tell me all the time, Kill, you lie to yourself. And I said, Dad, that is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Like, I mean, like, how can I lie to myself when I know the truth? And he was like, You'll understand one day. And then the older I've gotten, I'm like, oh my gosh, how easily we do that.

SPEAKER_01 39:27

And that's why that was the other thing I was gonna say when we were talking about you know the the spouse partnership is is also like being the person that refuses to enable in the relationship, which is a hard person to be. Oh, it's no fun at all to be that person. It's it's like it feels way more comfortable to be like, it's okay, it's okay. But if everything's not fine, that's not loving. No, it's not. That is not loving. It's like if you walked in to the doctor's office, right? I was thinking about this earlier today. If you walked into the doctor's office and he was like, all right, here's the deal. Like, you know, you've got you've got cancer in your whatever, and it's and it's it's pretty bad. But it's okay. You're fine the way you are. You you're good. Like you don't, you don't have to change anything in your life. Like it's okay. Like, and and just put your like you'd knock the dude in the head and you'd be like, no, man, tell me what I gotta do to fix that. Because you have to that's not loving for the doctor to say, you know, you got cancer, but we're just gonna ride it out and see what happens. We think, you know, we'd rather you be comfortable than for us to go through this hard thing. Like that's not loving. And in that context, it's like click, that makes sense. But then in a relational context, we approach it completely different. And what's true is true regardless of where and when it's true. Like if it's true in that setting with the doctor, then it's true in the setting with the person. If there's something that's not good, it's not loving to ignore it. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:00

And why would you want to ignore something that's eating away at the person that you love and you see it? It's it's crippling them from the inside out, and you see it happening and you love that person. Like you why would but it's hard to be that person in someone's life to say, This is what I'm seeing.

SPEAKER_01 41:19

Yeah, because it but one of the reasons why it's hard is one, it can be not received well sometimes. Depends on how you say it. And that hurts. But uh also, like oftentimes it's hard to be that person because you have to be willing for that to be turned back on you have to as well. Otherwise, you're a hypocrite. Right, you're a self-righteous jerk. And so you it you have to be able to receive that from the person as well, because you unless you're perfect, and I don't think you are, no, whoever you are.

SPEAKER_02 41:48

And I've noticed I mean, like, I don't think you are, and I've noticed in like my own journey, because it's a journey, and I'm never gonna reach my destination until the Lord comes back. Oh Lord, come on, or until he takes me home. But when I'm in a a good place spiritually, there will be times when I go to Josh or even Michaelina, and I'll say, How can I be a better spouse? How can I be a better mom? How can I be a you know, and what do you see in me that I'm blind to spiritually? What is it? And a lot of times I think sometimes I catch Josh off guard, he's like, I don't know, everything's fine, honey.

SPEAKER_01 42:24

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:26

You're perfect in every way. You're like Mary Poppler.

SPEAKER_01 42:30

But no, it's perfect goddess of all humanity.

SPEAKER_02 42:32

Right. Anyway, I I need to do that more though. And I don't need to just do it within my family, but with within our church and within like children's ministry and within just my work and just every I need I need to be more willing to be vulnerable to ask those questions to like my bosses, even, you know, just how can I better serve? How can I, what do you see in me that I like so I can be better and not talk about it, but actually be about it. But that's a hard place to be too like to be vulnerable, to put yourself out there because you might hear something that you don't like.

SPEAKER_01 43:22

Yeah. That's a lot, that's deep, that's good stuff.

SPEAKER_02 43:28

But wouldn't wouldn't we be better at all of this if we would allow people to speak that truth to us more often?

SPEAKER_01 43:36

And if we'd be willing to do the hard thing and speak that truth also when we're called Yeah. Yeah, both ways. Two ways, street both ways.

SPEAKER_02 43:46

And obedience is better than sacrifice to be obedient, and it's hard. It's so hard.

SPEAKER_00 43:54

It's a I I'm just inter thinking there is a flip side to that. I think the There's some people that they feel it's their job in that relationship to constantly point out. To police everything. Uh-huh. To to to take offense in a world more or less to all of these things that and point them out and be sure that you they are very aware of that they're doing the thing that is the is the problem.

SPEAKER_01 44:26

So so that that is so true. I had a conversation in a different vein on the similar thing here recently, though it's so funny you brought that up. So it it it always it brings up two things to me. One, we are called, we are commanded to not be easily offended. Yes. As possible.

SPEAKER_02 44:43

You said that.

SPEAKER_01 44:43

Yeah, we are called to not be offended. Yeah, we're not we we are not supposed to be, and that is like that spirit. How dare they? How could they? Do they know who I am? They know who I am. Like all those things, like we are called to not be easily offended. So if you're if you're the behavior police, right, that's not what we're talking about. Right. And then and then you go to the Sermon on the Mount, and Jesus says, You're worried about the speck in his eye when you got a big old log sticking out of yours. And and we often say, Well, I just need to deal with my own stuff then, and not know it's both. The speck in your eye is not good for you.

SPEAKER_02 45:23

Right.

SPEAKER_01 45:23

But if I'm asked talking to you about the speck in your eye, but I'm willing, not willing to look at the log sticking out of mine, that's we have a dirty word for that. That's called being a hypocrite. Yeah. And so you it's a two-way street. You have to deal with your log, but then you have to be courageous enough in Christ to lovingly say, I think this is a speck that's hurting your vision. It's gonna hurt your eye. Like if you leave something in your eye, eventually it does damage, no matter how small it is. Yeah, it hurts things.

SPEAKER_00 45:57

Well, you know, there's after probably 35 years, I finally came to some differentiance between there's character flaws, which I think are the things you could describe are the things that like this is damaging to your character in this situation as a Christian. I mean, you can do that worldly too, but this is damaging to your character, and this is how I see it as happening. Or what I might consider a personality flaw, which that's my problem, not actually your problem. And I've learned I've learned finally to swallow some of those things, and it's not repressing, it's not like it's just that that's an issue I have, you don't have it, and I need to keep that to myself.

SPEAKER_01 46:43

Right. This this isn't a moral thing. Yes, this is just something that maybe gets on my nerves, or as I would say, grinds my gears, or sometimes those are moral things that grind my gears. Sometimes that's a whole nother episode, but but yeah, you know, the silly example is always like the the the toothpaste, you know, like one person squeezes it in the middle, one person uh I actually saw the weirdest thing the other day. Bryce Harper actually squirts the toothpaste in his mouth and then rinses his toothbrush and then starts. I was like, what are you? Are you a caveman? I mean, that's weird. I've never seen that before. But you know, like those things, those things need to be let go. Like who cares about that? Right?

SPEAKER_02 47:24

Um That's not causing anyone to stumble in their beliefs. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 47:29

And at the same time, that also doesn't mean that you ignore like if one person always picks up the laundry and one person always throws their dirty laundry on the floor, like that, like that can be addressed, but that's not like sanctification. Yes. Right. That's behavior, that's things that need to be behaviorally modified or appreciation. And compromise like that. Those things, and oftentimes we elevate those things to the level of the most important things that's driving us the craziest.

SPEAKER_00 47:57

It gets muddy and look is looked at the same. Right. And though, and because those things are so easy to pick out, right?

SPEAKER_01 48:05

They become frustrating and aggravating, and they're on the daily and they're visible, right? And we and it's like, well, you know, you're a terrible human being because you don't put your genes in the in the in the you know, hamper. It's like, well, that's not the same thing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:21

Opposed to you just made them question their belief in Jesus by the way you treated them.

SPEAKER_00 48:26

Right.

SPEAKER_02 48:26

That's not okay.

SPEAKER_00 48:27

Or you affirmed me in that because of the way that you like, yeah, maybe you did leave your socks in the floor, but I also know that you prayed for me. And I'm gonna I will leave it at that if that's what my choices are. Leave your socks, but still pray for me. Right. We'll deal with like that's I'll I'll take those.

SPEAKER_01 48:46

The higher order of things, right? And then there's the times where you go, you know, as the person who primarily does the laundry in the house, you know, I feel valued and seen when you put your stuff in the hamper, right? Or however you say that. Like I know that sounds real therapy-ish, but like there is some truth in it. There's a reason why certain things are cliche. Like it's right, it's okay to say those things too, but we're talking about like the deeper stuff, yes, right than just that. That stuff matters. Absolutely. But let's let's go past, like maybe you are being inconsiderate by how those action, those actions are showing an inconsiderate heart in you somewhere or uh or an entitled heart in you somewhere. Right. Or maybe it's just a misunderstanding, you know. It's like it's like Nate Barghetsi tells that that joke about um about how his mom always did the laundry, like, always did the laundry growing up. And he was like, I just thought like that's what wives did, you know. Husbands don't do the laundry, wives do the laundry. He's like, you know, so like he was wanting to win an argument and he was thinking, like, well, but I, you know, like I got one, like I do the laundry, don't you, you know, and all these, don't you realize how lucky you are that all these other men in the country don't do the laundry, but I'm doing the laundry for you, you know. It's like sometimes it's just like certain expectations you bring in because of how you were raised or what you saw growing up and those types of things, too. So it's a journey, man. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 50:11

We got off on marriage help somehow, but but they but it's such a good thing to talk about because it it's it's well it's the real life and it's this like they they they correspond so well together.

SPEAKER_01 50:25

It's almost like Jesus is the bridegroom and we're the bride. There's something yeah, something like that.

SPEAKER_02 50:32

If only if only we'd heard that somewhere or read it, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 50:37

All right, yeah. My final thought is like, let's just be salt.

SPEAKER_00 50:43

Yeah, you know, let's be salt. I did love it um that you pointed that out because I I guess I've never considered it, but as you were leading up to explaining it, I thought, well, that is weird. How does salt lose its saltiness? And then you explained, it doesn't. True salt can isn't incapable of doing that. But they didn't get their salt, they got their salt from the Dead Sea, right? Which was a mixture of things. And so when the salt was gone and then whatever was left, the gypsum was left, it wasn't salty because it wasn't salt.

SPEAKER_01 51:12

Because it wasn't salt. There's a lot, there's a lot that's being said, there's a lot being shed right there.

SPEAKER_02 51:17

When you say that gypsum looks the same, but they have different compositions. Like I was like, oh my gosh, like that is so true within our own lives in the body of Christ. Like just because yeah, salt and gypsum look the same, but because of what's on the inside, they perform different functions. Do you want to taste like salt or do you want to taste like sheetrock? Only the sincere disciples make a difference in the world. I was like, oh, that's so good.

SPEAKER_01 51:42

Yeah, it it is uh there's a there's another part of that too, and I and I didn't make this point in the sermon too, but like this hit me as I was studying and thinking and praying, and and I've I really wasn't settled on it, which is one reason why I didn't say it in the message. If I'm not settled on a kind of a major theological issue, I don't really need to stand in the pulpit and say it. Um but this is an interesting thing to think about too, right? Salt can't not be salt. Right? Once it's salt, it's salt forever. And that's a beautiful picture of salvation and and the eternal security of the believer. Like once once you accept Jesus' gift of turning you into salt, you're salt. Period. Uh now that in some ways it doesn't contradict, but it can be confusing with all the things that we've talked about through this time. But but so let me put it in terms with everything we've talked about so far. He turns us into salt from our soul out, right? But we're still in this sinful shell. So sanctification is the continual chipping away of the gypsum and all the other things that can look like salt, or maybe even doesn't look like salt, that taste disgusting, that are gross and nasty, but ultimately, when it's all said and done, all that's gonna be left is salt, sodium chloride. That's it. Just salt. And so we A can rest in that, that he once he saves us, he saves us, Dusty likes the translation, he saves us to the uttermost. Like he saved us now, he saved us, he's saving us now, and he will save us. Like it he is doing it and is going to do it. Um, but that's you know, that is part of what's taking up taking taking place is that he makes us salt, and salt can't stop being salty. Only the things that aren't that can make it taste like it's not salty, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 53:51

So um Well it's I I can I can keep hearing so you are salty, but because we are made up also of other things, which what how are we what are we seasoning with? Yes. When when we speak words, when we when our actions did did we were those actions salt or were they did that?

SPEAKER_01 54:11

Was that spirit or was that flesh? Yeah. Or are you living in spirit or we living in flesh?

SPEAKER_00 54:15

No, we are forever salt, we're also capable of continuing to to spread unsaltiness. Right.

SPEAKER_01 54:22

And so we just want to get closer to the Lord. And it makes so that we makes the whole idea of pure our pure form of our of the salt that we are.

SPEAKER_00 54:33

Yeah. And it really makes let let my words be seasoned with salt and full of grace make even more sense. I want those, I want that to be coming out.

SPEAKER_01 54:43

Yes. Well not that saltiness in me to be my words, not the disgusting wretched sinner that I am. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:53

Well, and even go back back to the very beginning. Sin, like, don't be causing someone the world disregards to stumble in their belief because of the way we treat them. It's better for us to drown. Be salty. Like, do be deal radically with your own sin and be salty salt. Deal radically with sin. Sin is serious. It's better for us to drown.

SPEAKER_00 55:15

I think the the the the what biggest thing we can take away there, you just said we've said it over and over, but we have to deal radically with seriously. We've talked a lot. We've talked a lot about about tell how talking to each other, and but in the end, it is on us to deal radically with sin, and nobody can do that for us. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 55:36

That's you and the Holy Spirit.

SPEAKER_00 55:38

That's it. Like it's it is it does come back to you. But it does help it come back to you and your relationship.

SPEAKER_02 55:44

And it helps when you come like w to church and on Wednesday nights and you're in the world.

SPEAKER_00 55:49

All of these things help foster that up. Yeah. For sure. So but it does come back to you. Deal aggressively. Murder your sin.

SPEAKER_01 56:00

Murder that sin. Murder that part of you that goes, Yeah, but what about their hand? I know my hand, I need to cut it off, but what about their hand? That part of you, kill that.

SPEAKER_00 56:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:10

Ask the Lord to kill that.

SPEAKER_00 56:12

Okay, so just that like we've all of this last two weeks, all of this. And then we know because we've read the book, still going to say, conversation with Jesus. Okay, thank you, Jesus. That's what you want me to do. What are they gonna do? That converts that's that conversation's yet to come. Yeah.

unknown 56:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:35

Keep working on me, Lord.

SPEAKER_02 56:36

Because we're sheep and we need a shepherd. And we have one, the good shepherd, and he loves us even when we don't get it.

SPEAKER_00 56:47

This has been good and it's gone by quick.

SPEAKER_02 56:49

Thank y'all for having me. I know I miss Dusty when he's not here because I feel like he brings a good uh rebuttal to things. I always like it. But I'm I'm thankful to be here. So thank y'all for having me.

SPEAKER_00 57:00

Yeah, I'm glad you came. I'm glad all of you joined in on this episode. And uh I would always want to turn you if you missed that sermon, um, or you just thinking, I don't remember hearing that part of it. Encourage you to go back and uh you can find all of previous sermons and episodes of build at fbcdan.com. You can find build on uh Spotify podcasts and Apple Podcasts. And I do I will encourage you to share this, not for any other reason, but to maybe it'll be helpful to somebody. Um so you know, if you know somebody that this could benefit, please share. And um if you're curious of how to be involved here locally at our church, again, fpcdan.com is a great resource for you. Ways to get plugged in and find places to serve. If you're not local, I do encourage you to get involved with the local body so that there is somebody there to help uh foster being a uh salt bearer in the world. Um but we look forward to to next week and we will see you then.

SPEAKER_01 58:08

Peace.

SPEAKER_00 58:10

Well, that's it for this week's episode of Build. Remember, what we build with our hands fades, but what we build on Christ lasts forever. If today's episode encouraged you, share it and keep the conversation going. You can find past messages, upcoming events, and ways to connect at fbcdan.com. Let's keep building our faith one brick at a time. We'll see you next time.