Psalm 50: The Difference Between Religion and Relationship With God. Episode 31

You can sit in church every week, say all the right things, and still be far from God. Psalm 50 makes that uncomfortably clear. Here is the question worth sitting with: are you around God's people, or are you truly one of them? There is a difference, and it is worth finding out which one describes you.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to Build, a podcast from Danville First Baptist Church. Build is where Sunday's message becomes Monday's conversation. Each episode we dig deeper into what God is teaching us, talk about how it shows up in real life, and help you keep building your faith beyond the weekend. Let's get started. Welcome to Build, the podcast of FBC Danville, where we aim to build on Sunday's sermon, but ultimately build on a relationship with Christ. This is another uh, I guess, summertime episode. This seems to be our MO for the summer, because I said the summer sucks and there's no time to do anything. But so we're doubling up again on uh two Sundays worth it messages. So I don't know. As I thought about it, maybe we do turn things into we don't have to produce them all for two-hour episodes, but we can talk as long as we want and make as many episodes as we want out of that. So we'll go with that. I don't know what this will turn into. There you go. But uh yeah, we've so we've got um Daniel finished up Psalm 50 a week ago, and then yesterday uh I had I did Psalm 51. And so we'll just see what we have to say about either one of those things.

SPEAKER_03 1:13

Yeah, yeah, we finished up Psalm 50, ended up being a two, a two-sermon psalm. Uh wasn't intended to be a two-sermons psalm, but that's the way things go sometimes. And um, yeah, it worked out. I don't know if it worked out good, but it worked out anyway. We finished up Psalm 50, and the second half of Psalm 50 is talking about the wicked um and how they are in rebellion. And we talked about the fact that God is ordering uh a case against the wicked, that that God knows all, sees all, and is preparing an orderly uh prosecutorial uh case against everyone one day. That's what judgment will be, that our deeds will be laid out, and um there'll be no there'll be no wiggle room. It'll be a perfect case. Uh there's no there's no way to get around what he's gonna do. And so we kind of re-hit on ritualism real quick that ritualism um is the religious motions without the heart connection. And then we talked again about the second half was rebellion, which is uh in in the case of Psalm 50, rebellion is saying the right things, but actually despising the actual ways of God and covering it up with religious talk um and religious attendance would be another way that you could put that in there. And then and and and the end of Psalm 50, it talks about uh, you know, I was I was silent, and you thought that meant that I was this was okay, um, because you think I'm like you, you think I'm hypocritical or whatever you false God you make me out to be, but I'm not I'm not you. I'm Yahweh, I'm Elohim Yahweh, matter of fact. Um, and we talked about how the first half of Psalm 50 is is vertical transgressions uh with the religious um activity, but no heart connection, and the wickedness is the horizontal sins against mankind, which is the thing that God usually goes in hardest against is how we treat each other. Um, and then we put as many Rs as we could into a sentence to uh to finish it up. So the remedy for both ritualism and rebellion is remembrance, repentance, and reliance, all made possible because Jesus has already provided redemption and reconciliation. And we kind of went into what those things were. And really, you could sum it all up, and it gets said said this way all the time it's religion versus relationship. We we try to justify ourselves through religion, and all God really wants is an actual relationship where we know each other, there's there's trust between each other, there's a covenant between each other, there's a there's a loving relationship there and not a transactional relationship there. And that's really really the thing. I don't know. I I I really enjoyed the psalm. Uh, I could keep talking forever, but that was that was kind of where we were with Psalm 50. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:10

Yeah, it was that's it, man. It's good, it's good. I I look forward to digging into it. I don't know you know if we're gonna we're gonna dig into that now or we're gonna introduce let's do that. All right. Um so I just really thought, you know, this this message was really strong. I thought you you did a really good job of of presenting the information, but also like I mean my spirit was moved. I mean my heart was moved. It was it's it's hard because I don't ever want it. I don't ever want my life to be defined as as ritualism or rebellion. Right. I want to be right with God. And um, you know, just some things that I really that I really took away, you know, uh you asking there, are you around God's people or are you of God's people? And I thought, and that's so that's so good. We we tend to categorize people by who they hang out with and and who they're around, and sometimes that's a a good indication of where we're at, but sometimes it's not, you know, it it reminded me of Haggai chapter two, where the question or or the the idea in Haggai 2 is that uh being around righteous things won't sanctify you, but being around decaying things or unclean things will defile you. There you go. And so it's it's good, even if you're not right with God, to be around people who are right with God, but don't confuse that with being right with God. You're you're you're closer, you're seeing it, hopefully you're getting something to look at to model, but it doesn't make you right. You have to you have to surrender.

SPEAKER_01 5:58

There's no osmosis. But you know, it kind of makes me think I the the the I guess looking at the opposite of that. So if you're somebody viewing a church body, don't assume that because you see you you you know, I know that that person goes to that church. This this the genuine yeah. That like they they are are the model for everyone that goes to that church. But at the same time, that's that's what happens. Or at least gives the appearance of decay from the outside. But I mean that's such a a common thing that people and it's basically an excuse, but I understand I understand where people come from when they say that. That you know, why would I go to that church? Because I know so and so goes there, yeah, and I know all of the things. Like that's and you're that's probably true, right? But that doesn't represent the people that that are of God's people.

SPEAKER_00 6:55

Yeah. And while that's not right to do, it's equally not right to say, well, I really don't care. I'll live however I want. And if I'm the reason that they don't come here, then they don't come here. Absolutely. I don't want to ever be no even if they're looking for an excuse. I don't want to be that excuse. Nope. I don't want to because sometimes people are justified. I I know he goes there, I know he serves there. He he's you know, on staff there, he does ministry there. Well, and I'm I'm gonna kick it, I'm gonna mess it up every once in a while. I'm gonna I'm gonna boot it around. And and you know, that failure doesn't mean that we don't believe what we actually say, but when we lean into that and say, well, that's their problem, they're just looking for an excuse, then it becomes our problem. Um you know, so that would that was one point that I was like, dude, that that's really strong. Um one of the things that you talked about too was you know the the den of thieves and then comparing that in the the den is where you're your most authentic self. And when we're when we're comfortable being non-spiritual in the place where spirituality is supposed to happen, right, then that's a major indication of where our heart is. Like if if it's not just something that we've messed up and done, uh it's not even a a bad choice that we made, but it's becoming who we are, how people define us. Yeah. Um, when we're comfortable in sin, then that's uh that's a problem. I thought that was I thought that was really really good.

SPEAKER_03 8:38

And it kind of puts in a, and we'll get when we go back to Mark, we'll eventually get to Mark chapter 11, but it puts so much more context and emphasis on why Jesus is so upset about what is taking place in the temple as far as flipping tables and the whatnot. It's it's because of that. It's because there is a group of people who are literally using the temple as cover to be wicked and are comfortable in that. They go to the temple comfortably to sin, to exploit, to take advantage, to exclude the nations. And the point of the gospel is to go to the nations, and they're they're literally doing the opposite of what they're called to do and doing it in the temple in the name of God. And Jesus really has a problem with that with us.

SPEAKER_01 9:32

Yeah, I think that's probably a fair uh self-assessment if you find if if if you find yourself in that, if you feel comfortable coming coming to church, but you know that like nothing there's no feeling of anything when you come, you're probably in a bad place. Because it's some of my darkest time, like I didn't want to come because I knew uh how I was gonna feel. I didn't want to be around God's people because I knew how it was gonna make me feel. I wanted to avoid that. So, but if you if you're totally fine just showing up and being there there you know you have about sin. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

unknown 10:15

That's a good point. That's a good point.

SPEAKER_00 10:17

Well, you know, and I I think too, you know, here in the in Psalm 50 it says, um, you know, but God says to the wicked, and that he's talking within the church, he's not talking about the pagan, he's talking within the which I thought, that's hurtful. Uh who are you to recite the Lord's laws but not live it? How many times in my life would I say, yeah, man, I've I've said the right things, I've done the right things because that's what was expected, but I wasn't living it. And then it's not ignorance, and that's the hurtful part about this. That that that idea of who are you to recite the law but not live it says you're living not in ignorance. I can handle ignorance, but you're living in rejection of the truth that you're proclaiming. Right, and that's a gross and awful and and and let's just call it what it is. I mean, that's a place that uh that we've been, I've been. I keep saying we because it's more comfortable. Put y'all on the same boat as me. But you know, there have been times in my spiritual life when I know Jesus, I know the word, I quote the word, I say the things, I do the visual things that people would expect me to do, but in a heart of rebellion. Right. And I think that's worse than those who do the same things that I'm doing out of ignorance.

SPEAKER_01 11:46

Right.

SPEAKER_00 11:46

Because I've chosen it. And I know there's a better way, and I know that God has already paid for for that sin, which should make me want to do it less instead of what people claim that that we sometimes teach is well, God's already forgiven our sins, so do whatever you want. Well, I say it's the opposite. God's forgiven my sins, which means I don't want to add to that to that bill that he's paying. I don't want to to just pile on more and more and more. Um and so I I thought that was I thought that was really strong.

SPEAKER_01 12:17

And that's like that's where we get frustrated at times being on the outside of that because we ex we should expect lost people to act like lost people and save people to act like saved people, but we're going to mess that up. But that's where the great frustration comes. Right. Is like I know that person saved. Why are they acting like this? That was why am I acting like this?

SPEAKER_03 12:45

That was one of the things that was that I said in the sermon that was uh that after the sermon often I can hardly remember what I've what I've said, but that one thing I said in the sermon that stuck with me was the problem with the church is we're always worried about the sin out there, yeah, and God's always worried about the sin in here. And that was a Holy Spirit moment because as that's coming out of my mouth, I was like, holy cow, like I didn't plan on saying that. It just like it just it was just part of what the psalm was saying. And I was like, that is like that is the thing. Like, stop worrying about fixing the world.

SPEAKER_02 13:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:19

Like, I'm I'm not saying we shouldn't care, I'm not saying it shouldn't grieve us, but if we were as concerned about the world, if we were as concerned about the church as we are about what the world is doing, if we were as concerned about about living righteously as people of God as we were about the people who aren't the people of the people of God are living, you know, if we were as concerned about the the saved living for the Lord as we are about those that are lost and unsaved sinning, like if we would just and I think that really, when that came out of my mouth, I was like, that really is the heart of Psalm 50. Like you got enough to worry about just worrying about you and your people in your house. This this house here, this local body, this local expression of the body of Christ. Like we don't have to worry about anything else. Like let's just let's pray to the Lord and repent and confess and love and be gracious and be compassionate to each other and worry about that, and we'll have a lifetime worth of work to do right there.

SPEAKER_01 14:24

I think you just you just pointed out the problem is that we you, me, you, all need to, we should be our focus should be ours. Like, but that doesn't feel very good. Right. Like I don't want to really concern myself with my so I'll concern myself with somebody else's problems, and we do we do do that in the church, but not inwardly. Right. We're we're all we're so focused on what everybody else is doing.

SPEAKER_03 14:52

It's so it's so it's like you see the examples on social media. Like I I'm gonna pick a hot button topic here. Hopefully it doesn't go sideways or be misinterpreted, which does happen. But like you watch those videos on social media where it's it's like a they're talking about immigration, right? And it's like, do you believe in this? Do you believe in that? And the person's like, oh yeah, yeah, we should have we should have open borders and all this open. It's like, okay, well, we're doing this, it's it's a gag, like they're setting these people up. Right. But it's like, oh, we're doing this petition. Uh, anybody who signs up for this, that way we'll be able to contact you so we can move someone into your home. Right. So they'll have a place to stay. They're like, oh, oh, well, I'm not comfortable with that. It's like we I want to fix the world, I don't want to fix me. Yeah, you know, I want to, I wanna I want to clean up the country, I don't want to clean up my room. Like, and it's the same concept. It's so much easier to focus on the meta fix than it is to focus on the mirror and let the Lord work on that and like and and and not in a in a self-absorbed way, in a selfish way, in and because in the way that when we actually are sanctified and continue growing in Christ, like that actually is the one thing that we're in control of that can actually make a difference in the world. Yes. Right.

SPEAKER_01 16:04

You know, well, because I mean it it it's gonna grow if we can focus on our house, then we're not we hopefully aren't contributing to what's going on right in the church house. Right. And and it would grow and it would grow out.

SPEAKER_03 16:22

Yeah. It's it's you know, and and and and I'm not saying that a church should be inward focused, obviously, but I'm saying it should be inward focused when it comes to sin and confession and repentance. And and I think when a church is inwardly focused on confession and repenting and being right before the Lord and seeking his face and having a broken and contrite heart, like you talked about yesterday, that when we're focusing on that inwardly, then we're gonna be motivated to share the gospel outwardly. Right because we're reminded all the time of the goodness of the gospel, is that we are saved sinners.

SPEAKER_01 16:58

It's it's gotta be multi-leveled, and we just I think as humans get hyper-focused on on a thing, and it's not one thing, and that's why it takes multiple people to do because somebody has to be focused on what's going on inside because that's important, right? And then somebody else can focus on what's going on. I mean, like you've got to have all of the layers and all of the moving parts, but but we like oh and and I think the world looks at us that way. Yeah that we're just here to serve everybody else. That's just part of it. We're here to serve each other, and that's that's what's happening, you know, that's what's happening on the inside of the walls. And we always say we're gonna do this, and then we're gonna go outside and do this, but we have to do the things on the inside as well, right? And that goes individually as well.

SPEAKER_03 17:51

Yes. We're working on the inside of ourselves, so the outside of ourselves features that. I I want to address something, uh, not address, I want to hit on something. I've had a conversation with someone recently um that that push back, and I and I love genuine pushback on things. And and I talked about how God, this is my personal okay, this is the way I picture, right? We studied Revelation for an entire year, and I picture the final judgment like almost like a big movie screen where everyone ever sees everything you've ever done and God lays that all out. And I and for some reason, like that's how because there's gonna be different levels of I think punishment and different levels of of rewards. I mean, that scripture's pretty clear on that. And so it's like how well, how can everybody exist in congruence and per perfect harmony if there's different levels? And I'm like, well, if everybody sees what everybody's ever done, good, bad, and then and the like it, there's no excuse. Like, and that's part of what I'm picturing when I picture the air, the airtight case. And then and and in the context of when I was talking about most of that, I was talking about unsaved people. That's what I want, like I want to first make that clear. The wicked are unsaved. Now, the saved may act and do wicked things at times, but but the case getting laid out against someone where God says, This is everything you've done, and this is why you're receiving judgment. You don't actually want me, and here's the proof. That is for the unsaved person. The pushback was I thought God for removed my sin. I thought God forgot my sin as far as the East is from the West, right? Which is a great pushback point. Because and so in the conversation, I said a couple things, and I of course I thought about it a lot more since then. We said we would get back with each other, you know, and have a deeper conversation. But one of the things that I that I kind of mentioned in the in person right there in the conversation, and then I've continued to look at since is what does it mean for God to remember? Yeah. Um, and and we think of remember and forget, like we remember and forget. But biblical remembrance, godly remembrance is and when it says, Remember me, Lord, in my time of need. It's not like God forgot about you. Right. God, God knows all. So how could he not know something? How could he forget something like the way we forget something? Yeah. Right. So to remember and in that sense is to is to know it, think about it, and act.

unknown 20:26

Right?

SPEAKER_03 20:26

And it says he removes our transgressions as far as the east is from the west. Okay. So this is the way I explain it. I'm gonna try to explain it again here now. I I don't think that God has forgotten our sins as safe people the way we forget things. I think he has removed guilt from those things. That that's that's what I believe. You know, when it says that he has, we we say in the English that he has forgotten our sins. Uh Isaiah 43 says he has forgotten our sins. It's really not remember. So, so to me, that's it's it's not that he doesn't know, it's that he knows and is not going to act upon. He's not gonna hold you accountable for that sin, which which is what grace is. But it does say that every man will give account for his works. That it says that in the New Testament to the saved person. Yeah. Like you're gonna be held accountable for your works. And now, and so so for the saved person, it's it's you're you're you're all your sin is forgiven, but you're held accountable for your works from salvation forward. And so, you know, does does God forget your sin? Well yeah, but not like we think.

SPEAKER_01 21:43

So if you if you try to put it in the human context, we can forgive people. We're capable of forgiveness, but I don't know anybody that's capable of truly forgetting what the thing was that they forgave. Right. And that we struggle. With continuing to continuing to let that go. Right. Can to stay in that forgiveness where he doesn't struggle with that. Right.

SPEAKER_03 22:08

Well, one thing I read about it that was awesome. Of course, you've probably heard before where the preacher thing, you know, he moves it as far as the east is from the west. Well, the east and the west never touch, right? They just keep going, which is beautiful when you put that in the context of Psalm 50, because it says at the beginning of it, he's summoning everyone from where the sun rises to where the sun sets, or from the east to the west. But God removes it as far as the east is from the west. So he's summoning everything that can all witness, but they don't actually have the evidence because God has removed that. Does that make sense? So he could summon all of creation and they can testify against you. They can say, Dusty did this and Dusty did that. And God goes, I don't see the evidence for that. Like I hear what you're saying, but the evidence is gone because Jesus' blood covers that. And I'm like, that's a beautiful picture of what it of what it is. So in a sense, the person was 100% right in the way that they took what I was saying. And I remind I said, Well, remember that in the context of what I was saying, I was talking about the wicked, the unsaved. Um the people they're they're hanging out at the church, yeah, but they're not actually saved. They're not of the people of God, they're around the people of God. And and to forget is not what we think forget. To not remember is to is to is not what we think of that. It's it's a godly thing. It's it's to to know and to act. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:25

So well, and and I think even you know, I had a similar, similar conversation maybe with similar people, um and said some of the same things you did, but also like something that I think it's important to remember with this thing. Obviously my sin debt has been paid in full. It's it's done.

SPEAKER_03 23:44

That's either true or it ain't, and it's true. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 23:47

And and I believe that that every believer will have the works that they have done since salvation on display, and I believe that there will be different rewards in heaven. Heaven is a great reward in and of itself, but I think we're gonna have different roles. I think we're gonna have different jobs, I think we're gonna have different different things going on in heaven. But I also want to think about if my sins are laid out and they're already paid for, Jesus paid for them and I'm seeing a judgment, the human side of me right now says, Man, I'm not gonna be able to do anything but cry, which it does say tears are gonna be wiped away, and we're gonna be so maybe there is some of that. But I also think what better reminder of the goodness and grace of God than to see my filthy life with everything I wanted to do, tried to do, all the good I hope to do, but the reality of the putrid filth that is my life laid out before Jesus, and Him say, This is who you are. Place painful. And I love you and welcome into our home, good and faithful servant. You don't feel like a good and faithful servant because you just see all those things. You saw the good and the bad, but I can tell you, my good pile ain't gonna be as big as my bad pile. And I saw it all, and it's just such a great reminder of how much Jesus loved me, how much he sacrificed for me, not because I deserved it, but because he desired relationship with his creation. And uh when we think about it from a non-punitive standpoint, but just from a reminder for us of the goodness of God, could it be something that we're even thankful for to be reminded of? Sure. I I don't I don't get any more to to judge myself next to Daniel or next to Josh. Maybe, maybe I don't look great next to you guys, but but I'm a lot closer. Sure. But I'm gonna judge myself laid out bare before Jesus. It's gonna be a reminder of his goodness and his mercy and his grace, and it will be painful and it will stink, but it also will be just a beautiful moment where I say, Yeah, Jesus, thank you. That that's not I don't have to, I can't pay for that.

SPEAKER_03 26:21

Right. Thank you that you did. And I think that that knowing, you know, will be known as we are known. Yeah, that knowing is what makes the new heaven and the new earth, that's what makes eternity, that's what sets it up, how it sets it up. That's that's why there can be a strata but harmony because there will be no confusion why who is who and what is what, because it's right there.

SPEAKER_00 26:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:53

Right. And and and um, yeah, I I've thought about that a lot too, Dusty. It's just a like stamped, man. Like it's stamped, paid in full. There's no cost two, baby. Yeah. There's no there's no defense that I can give.

SPEAKER_00 27:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:11

And I think the wicked, that's what they're gonna do. They're gonna try to give a defense, and God's that's just not going to be one.

SPEAKER_00 27:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:18

Like they're gonna want to give a defense. But but but look at all the and and and the good pile, the good pile is gonna be, you know, a speck of uh a grain of sand, and and and the rest of it is gonna be almost infinite uh in wickedness, and God, and there's just gonna be no no standing in front of that. But it but on the flip side of that, it's like, wow, the grace of God is so good. And that's what I try to say all the time. Like, you don't have to go out and make major big sins. Yeah, just really be honest with who you are and what God has actually forgiven you for, and how easy it is for you to turn into a wretched person, just make you a little tired or a little hungry or a little overlooked or a little underappreciated, and all this nastiness just starts coming out of us so fast, and then you and then you go, wow, he saved me, like all of that stuff, all of that stuff, the the the lack of you know, self-control, the anger, the the the jealousy, the the comparison, the all of it, the times where I should have had compassion, like all of it, he saved you from that. It's so so good. If we'll take and turn inward when it comes to this and worry about our sin, you'll see the grace of God and how beautiful it is.

SPEAKER_01 28:43

Well, you you raised the question uh uh how how do you the way that you treat others, how is that evidence of your relationship with God? And like is exactly what you said. Like you when when that's kind of floundering, you you probably aren't treating others in a way that you or you are treating others in a way that would represent that. Right.

SPEAKER_03 29:09

If that makes sense when I'm operating out of the truth that I serve a God who has it all and needs nothing. The way I said at the end of the sermon was you you I don't have to lie, cheat, steal, or any of that because I know God has what I need. I can just celebrate the good in other people's lives. I don't have to steal from you, I don't have to steal your joy, I don't have to steal your money, I don't have to steal your time. God's got all of that that I need. When I operate out of that, I treat you like that is true. And when I operate out of my sinfulness, I treat you like that's not true. I break commandments, I sin, I do the things that I shouldn't do, and sin harms those that we're around, and it harms the ones we love the most and are closest to the most. And and so yeah, I could say on that all the time. And it's in it's it's the golden rule, right? It's part of the great commandment. We say it every Sunday. Like, love the Lord your God, love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, with all your strength. And the second is like it, love your neighbor as yourself. You can't you can't separate the two.

SPEAKER_02 30:14

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 30:15

Yeah, that's good. You know, something else good that I that I remember from your from your sermon was you said, you know, basically you think, and you alluded to this earlier, but you you think that because I'm silent, that I'm okay with what's going on because you think I'm like you are. And that just made me think about, you know, the truth is that God's silence is room for grace and it's room for mercy. It's it's a it's a pausing, a waiting for you to, you know, sometimes, you know, I'm gonna tell myself a little bit, but you know, I can I can remember a time when I was uh probably in in middle school and you know my mom found out I did something that I shouldn't have shouldn't have been doing, and and I knew I knew mom knew and I was waiting for the hammer to fall. You know what I'm saying? Like I'm waiting for for the whooping, I'm waiting for the grounding, for the whatever. Um and it didn't come, but instead there was just distance, there was disappointment. There was a waiting for me to come to her and say, Mom, I know that you know what do I have to do to make this relationship right? Um, and I think sometimes I think sometimes that's a great picture of what guy's doing. Like we know he knows, and sometimes we're waiting for the shoe to drop, but sometimes God's saying, like, I I could I could wear you out right now, I could tear you apart, as you said in the sermon, but in reality, what I would prefer is for you to come back and say, Dad, you know what I did. I know what I did, and it was wrong, and I'm sorry, and I'm gonna turn away from that, and I'm gonna turn to you, which Easton did a did a great job this week of of you know defining repentance as that very thing. And uh sometimes he's giving us room and time to ask forgiveness.

SPEAKER_03 32:13

Right. Well, I mean seek his mercy. We've probably all had some, it's exactly what you're talking about, but as a parent, we've probably all had some version of that with with our kids. It's like where you say, like, I already knew the thing. I knew what you were doing before you did it, and I knew you did it, and I was waiting, hoping you would come to me before I had to point it out. Because I there's a the I I'm gonna I'm waiting, hoping this can be fixed before, but it's gonna get to a point where it's like, okay, if it gets here, now the waiting is doing more harm than good. Yeah. Right. And I don't know where that is for God, but we all have done that as a parent, right? And and and that look on your kid's face, like, how do they know?

SPEAKER_01 32:52

It's like, well, because so there's there's that, but there's also the instantaneous that's what I like the lack of instant reaction. Because like you said, if if that was the case, that he's just like going around zapping people. Right. Because like like there's sometimes most times I'm quiet to keep from hitting you. Right. Like my I probably should snatch you and put my hands on you, but I'm gonna stop and I'm gonna wait and I'm gonna let I'm gonna look at you like you're crazy to let you know that you're crazy. Right. You're acting crazy right now.

SPEAKER_03 33:28

Well, there was one and I prayed about and debated whether or not to, and I didn't have time for it anyway, so it worked out. But one of the things about the silence of God or or you know looking at these different ways is you you think about you know discipline in a worldly sense, right? You don't discipline a two, three, four, five, six-year-old the same way you discipline a 16, 17, 18 year old. At least you at least you shouldn't, right? The the younger, the more immature, the more, the more babyish the person is, the more instant the discipline has to be. Right? If there's a delay in discipline to a young person, they cannot correlate with the action with the discipline, right? It's like if you're in school, like when someone, when a when a kindergartner messes up, they don't need to find out the next day or two days later that, hey, you're getting in trouble because you did this thing and this thing that we're doing to you is because of that thing. Like that doesn't work. It's gotta be now, it's gotta be right now, right? And but the more you grow and the more mature you are, the more you learn that you can you can put this with that, right? And there's more freedom and there's more responsibility. So you as a parent, you you you sit back a little bit and and allow a little bit more before you have to jump in and and do the thing. Now, not always, like you know, I mean, if your son smalks off to your wife, you're gonna correct that instantaneously. Right, that's different.

SPEAKER_01 34:55

But in that same, like that's what I'm saying. Like, sometimes like it comes with that look. Like, are you joking right now? You know, and then like, oh, I messed up. Right. Let me reframe what I just said, because that sometimes it maybe it is a misunderstanding. That's not what I meant. That sounded crazy.

SPEAKER_03 35:12

And then I had one other thing on that, on this top topic, that really wasn't for the sermon. It was just, you know, is that part of the iceberg that is part of what makes the sermon. True. Um, but sometimes this is this is this is as Paul would say in his letters. Now now I'm writing in in my opinion. This is my opinion, okay? This is just something I've thought about, those types of things. And I've been trying to figure out how to exactly say it. So here it goes. We'll see how it says comes out. God's silence, his patience, his loving kindness, that that's his grace, right? Sometimes I think we have false grace as followers where we are silent in the face of sin within the church, and we act like or convince ourselves that it's grace when really it's cowardice. And so there's this line of of what we talk about all the time. Love is truth and grace. There's this line of uh we want to be all truth and all grace. And my point is if it's always silence, then at some point we're never saying what's true and what's right. And that's just something I've been searching my heart and my mind on. Like, am I am I calling this patience or is this actually cowardice? Yeah, and I've been like really wrestling with that, and I just thought that was something that needed to be said that would be good for anybody that hears this. Like, wrestle with that within yourself. Are are you being gracious, gracious? Are you being patient, or are you supposed to speak up and say something and call something not right that's not right and say the truth, even though it may not be easy for, you know, and and again, to say the truth in grace is to say the truth without the desire for condemnation, without the desire for God to punish this person. I'm saying the truth for reconciliation, for redemption, because of love, because of forgiveness. But this truth still has to be said at some point. And so that's something that I was just kind of wrestling with. Don't, don't, don't see that and say, well, God's silent, so I'll be silent forever.

SPEAKER_02 37:31

Like, no.

SPEAKER_03 37:32

I mean, Jesus was silent before his accusers, but not all of them. Right. Not all the time, right? Obviously.

unknown 37:38

Right.

SPEAKER_00 37:39

At some point, there's truth has to be said. And he is he is patient. You know, I think about 2 Peter 3:9, the Lord's not slack concerning his promises, as some count slackness, but he's long-suffering. He's long-suffering, he's not forever suffering.

SPEAKER_03 37:52

Exactly. Not eternally suffering.

SPEAKER_00 37:54

There's gonna come a day when, okay, well, you've had every opportunity you're gonna have to repent. You're clearly not going to do it, and now it's time to get to business because wrong has to be made right. And so I'm with you. I think it's hard because it is a fine line, and every situation that line is a little bit different. But how what is the purpose of your silence? Is it to give room for repentance, or is it because I don't want to deal with this because it's gonna be uncomfortable, it's gonna be hard, it's gonna lead to hardship, it's gonna lead to potential, you know, strain. Right. And then it becomes a problem. A problem. I think that's a great point. You know, something else you brought out the other day that that hit me like a ton of bricks because I'm like, I've never thought about it like that. And and you know, as someone who I like to think through things, and you know, I like to think I'm not surprised that often by a truth uh that's a clear biblical truth. That I'm like, how did I not? But you say, you know, his judgment doesn't lead to repentance, his grace does, because his judgment is the conclusion of things. And I thought that's really deep. Yeah, that's really deep. You know, uh I think that goes back, of course, you know, trying to frame everything in the in the in the vein of salvation and evangelism. It's easy to evangelize using fear of God's judgment. Yep, yeah. But in reality, uh God's judgment uh is the conclusion of things. And yes, it is a good motivator because that day is coming if you don't repent. But uh the better proof of who God is is the fact that he didn't say, Oh, you did that, boom, you're done. You know, it is that window that he gives us to repent, to turn back to him, to to uh surrender to him. So I just thought I thought, man, that's it's a clear, it's it's obvious, and I never thought about it in that way. So, you know, any other any other kind of thoughts about that? Yeah, that was a really good point.

SPEAKER_03 40:15

So in in 23 in Lunch Learn Pray 2023, we went through Romans for the entire year, and that that I use the verse from Romans 2.4 that is that says that it says or or my translation, or are you stupid? You don't understand that his loving kindness is to draw you to repentance, like you think he's patient so you can just do whatever you want to? Don't you understand that his graciousness is what actually changes human hearts? And studying that, and that truth permeates Romans a lot. And so studying that and teaching through that verse by verse all through that year, it just it just stuck in me and and sticks out to me. Yeah. When you see it, it's like, oh, there it is. Like because that truth laid so heavy on me, because I know there's been numerous times in my life, and there I cannot be the only person that thinks, and I've said it from the from the pulpit numerous times, like you think, man, if God would just like get a hold of that person, judge them, you know, bring down and and and it would it would change, they would change. And then and then you go into 2024, where we study Revelation all year long, and you read the cyclical effect of the wickedness of man and the judgment of God, and it and he does it over and over and over to show that this is what this creation is. But at the end of each one of those cycles, the wicked just get madder at God. When his judgment starts to come, they just matter and matter and matter. There's more gnashing of teeth. Gnashing of teeth is the part of the sinner uh of the human. And and it was like, oh, that's it, right? There it is, right there. God saying it right here in this entire book. My judgment is not going to make them change. The wicked, the unrepentant are unrepentant. Yeah, no matter what I do. I've loved them as much as I can love them and given them the opportunity to receive my love. And now I'm gonna through my punishment show that that's not gonna work. I can't scare them into loving me, which is not his intent. And that's that's what we think. We think God's judgment is to scare someone into changed heart, a changed heart, and his grace is the only thing that can change hearts. His judgment is to put a finality to sin. Yeah, that's why his judgment comes, because sin must end.

SPEAKER_00 42:44

Yeah. Come on. Come on.

SPEAKER_03 42:47

I'm ready for that one. I'm ready for that for that. So it's good. But yeah, when when that that that I was you know studying that, and I was like, ah, there it is again. Romans 2, 4. There it is.

SPEAKER_00 43:00

That's good.

SPEAKER_03 43:00

Grace, his grace is what leads to repentance, which then what does that mean for us in living out the Great Commandment through the Great Commission? That means that our grace is the only thing that's gonna change our environment, the people around us, our hearts. Like it, we're not gonna go out judging the world into repentance.

SPEAKER_00 43:21

Right.

SPEAKER_03 43:22

That that was the truth that said on me in Romans. Like, we, you know, we're you're going to hell. Don't you understand? Like, no. And it's not that you shy away from truth, it's that you shy, that's that you stay away from condemnation. You stay away from judgment. You don't get the right to judge.

SPEAKER_00 43:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:40

God does.

SPEAKER_00 43:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:41

You can say the truth, but you say it in grace. You say it for the purpose of salvation, not for the purpose of condemning someone to hell. You don't get to condemn anyone to hell, no matter how bad you want to, sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 43:56

Yeah, I think that what you mentioned a while ago about. Our comfortability in making correction. I think probably a lot of the time it boils down to that is that nothing is said because I can't excuse myself from being condemning. And I'm going to Going back to what Grandma said, right?

SPEAKER_03 44:19

If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.

unknown 44:21

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 44:22

Like nothing. Right. I know.

SPEAKER_03 44:27

And right now I'm saying the truth because I want to hurt you. Exactly. And that's sin. Yeah. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 44:33

That's good. Well, you know, I think I think you hit on it, Daniel, there too, when you're like talking about that we're you're never going to judge the world into salvation. Yes. I think about you know folks with similar platforms to what we have, and that, you know, watch some of their stuff and like, well, I know everything that they're against. I haven't figured out what they're for yet. Right. Yeah. And I know they're going to slap Jesus on it and say, well, we're for Jesus. But the reality is that I have grace for the wicked because I've been the wicked. And the only reason when I'm not being the wicked now is because of the grace and mercy of Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit that indwells me. Yes. It's not that I've suddenly, well, I got saved and now I'm better. I'm such a good person. It's just I have the ability to live through the Spirit and to walk in the Spirit. And so, you know, I hope and pray that while yes, uh there are definitive things in Scripture that we're that we are for and we're against, when the world only knows the things we're against, we're being very, very ineffective in reaching lost. Absolutely. And no matter uh I and I'll just I'll go a step further. I think that is a phariseical viewpoint to life. And I think that's why Jesus was frustrated with with those folks so so much, because not that they didn't, not that even the things they were saying were untrue. It was the truth apart from the grace and love of Jesus is a weapon, not you know a blessing, not an opportunity, not anything. It's just something I'm gonna beat you down with. And I think it turns a lot of folks off from hearing the actual message of Jesus, which is I'm giving room for repentance because I love you. And it doesn't matter what your background, what your sin of choice has been, Jesus still would love the opportunity to know you as his child. Yes. And when they don't hear that because they only hear me say, Well, that's sin, that's sin, that's sin, then I've missed an opportunity.

SPEAKER_02 46:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:49

I agree. I agree. I think that leads us into Psalm 51, perfectly speaking of repentance and whatnot.

SPEAKER_01 46:56

I agree. And I think I'm gonna take this moment right here and say, this probably will end up being two episodes because we're already over 45 minutes in. Yeah. And it's been good, but I think we'll probably go we we could go another 45. Right. So peace for this episode. Yeah, this will be the end of that.

SPEAKER_00 47:15

Deuces for now.

SPEAKER_01 47:16

Yeah. Well, that's it for this week's episode of Build. Remember, what we build with our hands fades. But what we build on Christ lasts forever. If today's episode encouraged you, share it and keep the conversation going. You can find past messages, upcoming events, and ways to connect at fbcdan.com. Let's keep building our faith one brick at a time. We'll see you next time.