Shhh, My Stories Are On!

What Went Wrong with The Traitors? w/ Brian Richards

• Season 1 • Episode 8

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0:00 | 49:19

Join Chels, Paige, Eoin, and Jesse as they yap about their favorite unscripted stories. 

This week, we welcome returning guest and writer Brian Richards to the pod to breakdown the mess that was the finale and reunion ofThe Traitors US Season 4. From the problematic casting choices and unconscious bias towards to format improvements they'd like to see moving forward. They also dive into the America's Next Top Model documentary and give their recommendations for what to watch this spring. 

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SPEAKER_01

Welcome to My Stories Are On, where we yap about all of our favorite unscripted and scripted stories. I'm your host, Chelsea, and y'all, it's finally over. We are Nicole Kidman walking out of that divorce office. Jesse, Owen, Brian, we are free of the Traders season four in the US. How are y'all feeling?

SPEAKER_05

I'm feeling good that it's over. Me too.

SPEAKER_00

Part of me is going to miss the routine of Thursday nights watching it with the watching the traders with the pit.

SPEAKER_01

But now you can get bed, you can get to bed at a decent time now.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, I can. While getting ready to catch up on all the other editions of the Traitors and waiting for to see what happens next season and hoping that the casting decisions that are made are much, much, much better.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, because I think the biggest crime of the Traitors isn't like Rob winning, because that's literally the name of the game. I think it's the boot order because it was such a boring season this second half. And even when we got our problematic men's out of the castle, all of those problems were still there because you can still be an ally with terrible unconscious bias. And it was just not fun to watch the show. At a certain point, I logged on and serialized nobody deserves to win this season. And a lot of people liked it.

SPEAKER_02

It's like so frustrating. Because I really, even like last season, I was frustrated a lot, but it was still like fun and exciting, not knowing exactly what was going to happen. But this season, I think that's the one part that's been most frustrating. Like again, Rob did a good job, but it felt like very predictable. Every week it's okay, like no one's ever gonna suspect Rob, no matter what. They're all just gonna vote with him. Like it just made it because I think that part of it, the predictability, made it less fun.

SPEAKER_01

I agree. Yeah, and I think the show really just needs to look at the format because one thing that doesn't work with celebrity versions of traders that I think the UK has figured out is the money doesn't matter. Yes, it would matter to a lot of these gamers and stuff, but like somebody like The Housewives, it doesn't really matter. That's just like extra purse money to them.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So all of the missions are just literally we joke at second screen, but it's really not adding to the drama of anything. I think the closest they got was the finale, whenever Rob brought Mora with him in the helicopter just so she couldn't talk to others. I think the show really needs to look at its format and make adjustments.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, like I think if I kind of based on the success of the UK celebrity version, I think doing it for charity would certainly make it a far like less sort of icky. I would have a less of an ick feeling because if someone goes, they're just trying to win for someone else versus trying to win for themselves, especially when if you're going for charity, everyone's sort of on the same playing field. Whereas I agree with you, the housewives and many of these people they don't need the money.

SPEAKER_01

And now someone like Rob has all this money and which he could probably actually use the money since he's just a Love Islander. So I don't know. It's just whenever parts of the format make it to where you're not actually watching the show, and then the people left are not entertaining enough to really keep your interest. I think that's whenever things start working against you.

SPEAKER_02

Like most shows, reality shows, where like once you have like a really good formula, it's fun to like shake things up every now and then. But this season specifically, I felt like twists that were added in made it less fun and kind of like messed with the regular formula of the game, like the the way they set up the murder in plain sight, um, with basically being able to call Lisa out in front of everybody on the way out. Um, and then again, everything with the dagger, it just felt like it all it did not help the game, and it kind of I just like kind of the game where it's like pure like just traitors, faithfuls, same formula every episode, like it it just works every now and then it's film, they add something in, but I think minimum minimal doing that in the future.

SPEAKER_05

And I feel like it it's hard with the series like the traitors with any reality show, is as more seasons air, people entering the game sort of have an idea on how the show works. I mean, Rob Rob Seston um Rob C like knew he got murder in plain side just because he's watched the show. So it's kind of it's why I kind of look forward to the non-celebrity version that the American one is now producing next. Because hopefully it's like how with Survivor in any other reality show where these people are untested and it's just sort of about you don't have preconceived notions of people.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, and I know I said in the first episode I was okay with gamers going because they ruined season three. Um, I changed my mind because it turns out anybody can just ruin a season. It's awful. And we did need some of those gamers. Like Monet at her heart is a gamer. I watched All Stars All Winners. Like, come on, what was Stephen Colletti doing there, except being from One Tree Hill?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I kind of felt the same way, like, regarding the the twist with the secret traitors. Like, yes, it's great to see Mama Kelsey running around being the trader and such, but not enough was really done to make it as juicy and as interesting as it could have and should have been.

SPEAKER_01

And the fact that she flopped within the first week tells you a lot about it.

SPEAKER_00

Didn't help either.

SPEAKER_01

So, yes, let's just kind of go through some of what's happened because one thing they need to do is enforce the trader's oath, because there's gotta be consequences to these traders if they're throwing their other traitors under the bus. Because that's really what upset me with Rob. He went after Lisa and then he let Candace uh kill Colton, even though Colton was going around saying Candace is a traitor. And truly, every faithful was so stupid because it wasn't until the final episode that Tara's like, Yes, it's Eric and Rob are traitors. Let's pick up Candace's little clue from forever ago. I think what are we doing here? Just like killing the people you're supposed to be working with? Where do y'all fall?

SPEAKER_05

I think there needs to almost be a like unspoken rule that when the numbers are more fairer in terms of like say there's three traders left, and there's say nine players left in the game, right? Then you have free reign to like turn on them because when you get to like below ten people, it sort of becomes every man for himself. Whereas yeah, leaving the charge on the traders to me, it's and especially when obviously the traders he was going against were like the fun of the show, and like it showed in the real the actual personality hires, exactly. And I and like even in a moment of Rob trying to show personality, meowing like a cat, you're not Marlon Brando. Only that man gets to do that.

SPEAKER_01

Because then he also allows Dorinda to be murdered, and like she is problematic, but she was also a form of entertainment, and we're getting down to the most boring people alive. Yes, some of the most beautiful. I'm looking at you, Kristen and Natalie, but Mark Ballas, dipshit, Stephen Colletti, what are you doing here, sir?

SPEAKER_00

I do love reason for them to make it all the way to the end as far as they did. None.

SPEAKER_01

And then bless their hearts. I call them our dum-dum twins, Johnny and Tara. I love that one, they were zooming in from the Olympics for this and they looked better than anybody at home who had their full teams with them. It's insane. But gang, how do you feel about your final three of Eric, Mora, and Rob? Because I will say Rob recruiting Eric was a very smart move because Eric cannot string sentences together to defend himself. What'd y'all think?

SPEAKER_02

It's just interesting to see Eric finding out that Rob is a traitor this whole time and how gaggy is about it. Like, wow, you are such a good liar. You're so good at this. And then knowing now that he's realized, oh, I just watched him leave the charge to get Lisa out, leave the charge to get Candace out, and he still goes all the way into the finale, like, Rob wouldn't do that to me. No chance. Like that's the part that was the part in my head. Like, how is he that gullible and trusting?

SPEAKER_01

He's getting serial killed in the 70s.

SPEAKER_02

When he of everybody left, has the most knowledge about Rob? He's the one person who knows everything Rob has done in the game, and is still the one who's just like, I like I have to protect Rob.

SPEAKER_00

Eric would be the one lured into the the stranger's vein by candy. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, easily. He'd be like, wait, I recognize that voice.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. I mean, I I think maybe what made him believe in Rob is just the fact that Rob, of any of his fellow traders, stood up for Eric every time someone came for him. And whether that's misogyny, whether that's men supporting men, un without anything, that's I mean, that's what it is. Is that the reason he stayed with him is because after Candace went, Rob was like, no, it can never be Eric. Eric is so sweet and did everything in his power to protect him, which is why he did not do for Lisa or Candace.

SPEAKER_01

Until they threw him under the bus, because as he said in the finale, I met this person three weeks ago, I'm not splitting this much money with him. Which I do appreciate that honesty.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, the only meant like Eric winning would have been like another lackluster, at least not as exciting. It's not for me, not always as exciting for someone who just started even really playing the game that late. Um, which Eric was somewhat involved in the beginning, um, even if he had some bad takes. But it's still like he literally had so much power to win the entire game. I don't think he even seemed to realize that because he would just want to be loyal to Rob.

SPEAKER_00

I honestly would have laughed my ass off if Rob had somehow gotten voted out and Eric had wound up the sole remaining traitor to take all the money home. I would have laughed my ass off. I would have called it a ridiculous ending that never should have happened. And my roommate also wants me to let y'all know that if Eric had won, she would have to buy me a new TV because she would have thrown something heavy at the screen if that had happened.

SPEAKER_01

So I love that for her. I support her.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so for better and for worse, I'm just glad that Eric wasn't the one to take all the money home and and be the last trader standing.

SPEAKER_01

No, the real gag would be Mora winning everything.

SPEAKER_02

I was about to say the only literally the only hope, any hope that I had it all going into the finale, every scenario relied on Mora. Like every single thing, whether it was like, oh, like she'll team up with them and get Rob and Eric out, or she'll wise up and work with Eric and get Rob out, or she'll figure out somehow how to win herself. Like in every step of the way, even all the way down to the end when Eric is basically like, Oh, he's like, Mora, like trust me, we need to vote him out.

SPEAKER_05

And she's still just like, yeah, her her thinking that she was going to be the murder victim.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, and I believe you mean her tinking.

SPEAKER_05

Because it's got why am I still in this game? You know? I can do this accent, people. I am Irish, so it's okay.

SPEAKER_01

Um I will say though, y'all, we have to talk about Natalie's banishment because we started a whole episode with Tara and Johnny on the right track, and then they loop in Natalie, and Natalie is there, and then we think something's gonna happen, something good's gonna happen. We're gonna get a traitor out that we don't like. And then fucking Tara had to white woman this and throw Natalie under the bus at the round table. I I understand that her reasoning was she just didn't have the votes, so she was trying to stay in the game, but just the optics of her throwing this beautiful woman of color under the bus, I'm just so fucking tired of it.

SPEAKER_02

It's like frustrating at how little Rob had to do in like the endgame, just because of like the faithfuls continuing to turn on each other and not trust their gut and not stick with their initial votes. It's kind of like when you play Mario Party and like everybody falls off the thing and then someone just wins by default. That's how that's how like specifically that scenario felt when I'm like you can do this, and then you just see Johnny and Tara be like, I don't know if I feel good about this plan anymore.

SPEAKER_01

And Johnny, we can give a little slack to because he was not convinced the entire episode. Like that was Tara really trying to play the friend card in the end, and she saw it wasn't working. But just like this season is a real case study and unconscious bias and just straight up bias with some of these players. Let's be real. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, not a single lie detected. When in Natalie's case, all I could really think is uh number one, my jaw hit the floor with how she wore the hell out of her outfit. Number two, I wouldn't have been surprised, and I would never have convicted her if Natalie actually had done what she said she'd do and jumped over the table to launch herself at Tara for what she did because I would just need like zoom close-ups of her arms doing this and just like every muscle she's ever had.

SPEAKER_01

Also, Natalie, send me your workout regimen. You are beautiful.

SPEAKER_00

Yes. Hell yes. And also, I totally get that. Yes, Johnny had little less reason to be convinced, like Tara was, but I lived for Natalie basically going, Johnny, don't tell me sorry. If you put that fucking card up, I don't want to hear sorry come out of your mouth. Not once.

SPEAKER_01

That is Jesse right there.

SPEAKER_02

That was my favorite. I was like, uh, I'm waiting for people like to like if I was there, I would be so petty. I would probably say something really rude to everybody, like Rachel did in season one.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Like every time someone voted for her, she had like a little remark for them. Like, I'd be so annoyed. Like, I yeah, that was so nice, so like satisfying.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, if you're a fake one who gets voted out on some for some bullshit reasons, you've pretty much earned the right to be as shady as possible in the circle of truth.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, yeah. I would fully just be like flip people off when they put me out.

SPEAKER_00

Like by the end of it, it would be so tasteless. Yeah, it's just channel your best Kate as you head out the door.

SPEAKER_01

Oh my dream.

SPEAKER_02

Like, hope you all lose.

SPEAKER_01

No, by the end of this season, I was just like, let's make this Australia where nobody wins, and we cancel. I was like scorch-earthing this show by the end, but part of it got me back because Rob did play a good game. He's no Suri, he did not even win Suri money. So y'all put those comparisons like, no, throw those away.

SPEAKER_00

No, please do. Suri would have mopped every floor in the castle with Rob's ass if they were competing.

SPEAKER_01

Suri would have got Rob out during episode four, and you just know it.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. Suri managed to, yeah. This, I'm sorry, Mr. Allencoming, love you dearly.

SPEAKER_01

Um I don't right now.

SPEAKER_05

Well, I mean, you have you have done some wacky things recently. Um, starting with calling Rob the greatest trader ever and saying that Dolores is the worst when both are untrue. Siri will always be known.

SPEAKER_01

Danielle was the worst.

SPEAKER_05

Sorry, Danielle. Danielle. Um, sorry, who is still a great trader and give us iconic moments. But Siri is still the best. And the fact Sari never received a vote, she never managed to piss off her fellow traders when she voted for them. Quite like every one of them who went, it made sense. The only person who got butthurt at the end was Ari because he was recruited last minute when she was like, I've done this whole game by myself, I'm not spending that money with you. And I can respect that more than Rob.

SPEAKER_01

And the fact that she still has people years later pissed off at her for playing such a good game tells you her power.

SPEAKER_02

Rob was the first male trader to be like a real like one of the good traders.

SPEAKER_01

Maybe the in my humble opinion. Maybe the only good male trader we've ever had on this show in the US franchise at least.

SPEAKER_02

Like I didn't think Cody, Christian, or Ari were that great. I certainly didn't think Dan was great. I want to say Bob still is, but I don't think so.

SPEAKER_01

No, Bob was pretty bad as a trader. Entertaining.

SPEAKER_02

We barely got to see it. And then I wasn't I wasn't super impressed with Boston Rob, but I know for some people thought that that was good. But so Rob is the first, you know, broke that glass ceiling for a man to get for the low bar that was set for male traders in this game. Um but one thing that also frustrated me when we got towards the end is like when I realized it's like so much of it relied on Mora. Like once Natalie left, it was like, okay, like we just have to get her to see it. But she's left with the other side being Johnny and Tara, who are like, actually, guys, we're best friends, and we 100% know that the other person is not a traitor, so don't even bring it up. And then going to Mora being like, hey, I know you guys are friends, but he's a traitor. Like, I can see it, like I have like logically, it has to be so crazy for for Tara to be like, Your friend's lying to you. My friend's not lying to me. Like, that was what I was like, I was like, any other. I think if there was anybody else, I love that they made it that far. I feel like if one of them was replaced with a different faithful, it would have been an easier argument because it literally just turned into the two duos with Eric at all.

SPEAKER_01

Like, had Tara committed with Natalie and done that more, I think it would have worked. But also, like, I love that Mora went into this show not knowing the format, not knowing about murders and banishments, was there just to serve looks, made it to the finale somehow.

SPEAKER_02

I think we all knew that Mora was gonna be a meme at the end of the season. That's all I kept thinking. It's like it's gonna be everyone's gonna be talking about it, it's gonna be that reaction. It's still not as good and painful as season one. Like, I still think about the humor of seeing Quentin's reaction and the heartbreak of seeing Ian's reaction, all those feelings in one.

SPEAKER_00

Uh when I read about when I actually read about how the first season ended and how it was so much messier than what we saw on camera, and that Alan Cumming literally had to be called back to calm everyone down, I was just like, oh, damn.

SPEAKER_01

Quentin, the dumbest man alive. Quentin who voted incorrectly every single week and was still felt betrayed.

SPEAKER_00

And I'm convinced that that's the reason why it's like, okay, we can't be bringing any more normies on the show. It's gotta be celebs who know what the game is and who are not going to take it personally if they lose much, at least.

SPEAKER_01

Here's the thing Andy should not have taken it personally because their dad is the composer for Survivor. So should have an idea about reality shows, winners, losers, a game called Traitors. Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_05

I mean I can get feeling hurt in the moment, but it seems like at the reunion they seem to very very much bury the hatchet between Andy and Siri.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. Meanwhile, Ari and Quentin are still out here in these streets today, like poking at Siri all the time.

SPEAKER_00

Just milking into the last drop.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, they gotta stay relevant somehow.

SPEAKER_05

I was gonna say, you you no one will ever not try to discredit Siri, and people have tried many times and failed every single time, because that woman isn't is a reality institution.

SPEAKER_01

But y'all, let's I guess talk about the reunion because boy oh boy, where where do y'all want to begin with the reunion? Because this is the point where I was ready to throw my tablet through the window.

SPEAKER_05

I have so many thoughts, concerns, and frustrations at this reunion basically becoming a platform to um call to make women look insane, but also uh have us empathize with clearly insane men. The whole again, there are far more worse moments from Michael Rappaport in Tarita's life, but him clapping but trying to clap back at Tara and Johnny over a Zoom call with his insane housewife quotes, just someone get this man some help and leave him away from the TV, please.

SPEAKER_00

I know the producers really thought that, oh, let's invite Michael Rapaport, he's gonna make some really good television. I was like, what exactly were you smoking when you had this thought? Because all Rapaport made me want to do was just throw bricks constantly every time I heard his voice, especially with that. When I s when I'm speaking, you're not speaking clip bullshit. It's just like please stop.

SPEAKER_01

It was awful that we had to hear more from him than I would say the breakout star outside of the show, Ron Funches, who is actually worth listening to, has gone on a journey since. The show is fine protecting Colton from whatever cyberbullying, but has done nothing to. To help Ron. I think Lisa Renna and Rob are like the closest to people who've been nice to him online and supportive. I I'm ready to throw hands. Let's talk about Ron Funches because I could have just listened to him talk the whole time. I wanted to know more about him and his experiences.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, the fact that he only got what one or two sentences to speak on camera. He never really got to delve into his experience on the show as much as we would have liked. We didn't even get to see him talk to Dorinda about whatever difficulties or altercations took place between the two of the two of them either. It was just Colton talking about, oh, I was in such a that was such a dark period of my past, and I'm glad to put that behind me, and Rappaport trying to make him trying to make him trying to make fetch happen every time he opened his mouth. It was ridiculous, along with the fact that again, we have Andy trying to squeeze all of this in. We have over a dozen contestants and you try to squeeze them all in under an hour, as if commercials are a thing that we need to be concerned with. You can't give us you can't give us 90 minutes.

SPEAKER_01

I love that they're always cutting to commercial break. Always cutting, and it's just cutting right back. But yeah, uh, you brought it up. Let's talk about Colton because y'all, first off, fuck you, Vanity Fair, for giving him a profile, trying to whitewash all his crimes. Fuck you, the Traders Reunion for giving him this. He's coming in here changing his whole vocal inflection, trying to act like a victim whenever he had charges for stalking like actual things, actual crimes he has committed, and they're giving him all this time and energy to be like, oh, I was just going through something because I was closeted. Like, how many of us here are queer? How many of us were closeted? How many of us did not commit crimes against other people?

SPEAKER_05

Being closeted isn't a new thing. There are hundreds, there are decades of people being closeted and not committing crimes. That's no excuse. Um yeah, him just trying to portray him as this like fragile being. Um, I mean, we we clearly know that so much of this reunion was cut out. Um I mean, we did get allusions to it with the whole hostage discussion, which obviously there was more to that. Um and also fighting back with I want to slit your throat. We know that was just it, that wasn't she obviously did not want to slit a man's throat.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, they're talking about who are we gonna murder as in the traitors as a game. They're making up and writing puns for these people to say like different lines that make it seem like it's an actual murder. It's not real.

SPEAKER_00

That's like accusing Parvity of being an arsonist when she says, Let's light it all on fire. It's like, come the fuck on now, people.

SPEAKER_01

She would not be convicted on a jury of these peers.

SPEAKER_00

Not with not with those headbands, no.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, this is her headbands.

SPEAKER_02

Frustrating part with the Colton thing is knowing that like the casual audience that doesn't like like I know like my mother watching this probably has no idea anything about Colton outside of what she sees on the show. And there's a lot of other people like that who like they're just gonna listen to what Colton's saying and make their own interpretations. Uh because he words as like a hard time for me when I was going through a lot things from my past. Like, that's so vague. If I had no idea, I'd like, oh wow, like I can't believe they're using something that happened to him um around the time that he came. Like, I like the way like if you don't know the context, that's very much how they make it sound. So I'm sure plenty of people, more big those of us like me who are very chronically online and don't miss things like that. Other people, general audience, probably has no idea and walked away thinking, like, wow, I can't believe people are being so mean to Colton when they don't understand the context outside of the game.

SPEAKER_00

And it also gives a one-two punch of making him look like the sympathetic hero and everyone else, like Tiffany and Lisa looking extra looking extra mean towards him with their behavior.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. Whereas I am a champion of Lisa Rena, go off, baby girl.

SPEAKER_00

That's Lisa fucking Renna, let's get that right. Let's put some respect on her name.

SPEAKER_01

Put some respect.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, and to speak about bringing people's past into the show, I mean Colton himself said that the Lisa on the show was not the Lisa he was expecting. So if you're going to bring up Lisa from not being on the show, surely it's fair for her to bring up your past, which explains your actions much darker. Hers just happens to be that she's a housewife who throws drinks in people's faces.

SPEAKER_01

And honestly, she was only a villain for one season on Housewives, really. Before that, she was just a cast member. Before that, on Days of Our Lives, she was a hero. She's not been a villain for 30 some odd years, like people want to say. It's just really annoying that she brings up the idea of being held hostage, something Colton says within the show, and then she's not allowed to talk about anything else, even though that happened on the show.

SPEAKER_00

Whereas Colton gets to talk about her like she's maleficent.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, I wish she would.

SPEAKER_02

I could also do without the Michael's insincere apology to Colton of him just trying to clean up that he upset people who are gay that follow him while simultaneously mocking trans, non-binary people on Twitter. Literally that. It's like again, he's only pandering to who he thinks his audience is and who he thinks he needs in his follower base. And again, a representation of specifically gay men in the community accepting apologies for the entire community.

SPEAKER_00

And it's shitty. I would have loved to, other than Ron having conversations with Dorinda about what happened to the two of them, I would have just loved to see Ron have conversations with Rob, considering that one of their friendships was one of the best on the show, and Rob say whatever you want about him, and we pretty much have and will, was very much understanding of where Ron was coming from regarding his introversion and why he didn't feel the need to be as as social and extroverted as everybody else. It's like Rob saw where he was coming from and the two of them got along incredibly well. I would have loved to see the I would have loved to see them converse more during the reunion, but we were too busy having to, you know, see Rapport try to, you know, make a name make a name out of himself.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. And then like one of the two sentences Ron was allowed to say during the reunion, he had to defend why he was not so close to people. And he had to literally say, I felt isolated from everybody else. And he's coming in there. And if you know anything about Ron Funches, he's like big teddy bear comedian. You just love to hear and hang out with him. And for him to feel so isolated and go into a withdrawn state in that castle tells you everything you need to know about everyone else there. And I do like that there are people like Rob, and then like online a lot, him and Lisa seem to have been like become really good friends as well, and they're doing different things together, which I really love to see. But I just hate that he had to go and defend why he was not best friends with everyone, and it's because y'all excluded him.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. This this reunion was I don't think there's it. I uh the traders, I don't really like the idea of a reunion, especially hosted by Andy Cohen, who just says like can we have a good job? No, like he he's going into it thinking it's like a real a real housewives reunion, which is it's not the same thing. I think we need to get like a previous winner hosting, you know, get Siree in there and host, get like anybody else.

SPEAKER_00

Get a celebrity who's yeah, get a celebrity who's a fan, or yeah, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01

Like just bring in like what's gosh, what's Portia doing? She could do it, Phaedra could do it, Parvity could do it, any of these other people could do it. Kate's busy on House of Villains, so like, although I would love to see it, any reunion with Kate is great.

SPEAKER_05

Get Bob, get Bob the Dragon.

SPEAKER_01

Bob could do it. I mean Bob and Boston Rob, they have their podcast, let them do it.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, I'd totally be open to that. Which was included in the reunion.

SPEAKER_01

The most I've seen of any of their podcast. So yeah, I just I don't know how to feel about the traders going forward because the format is broken. I don't think the casting was great, and just every single mess, just the fact that Alan Cumming is basically going on watch watch what happens live weeks before the finale, declaring somebody currently in the game as the best trader ever, kind of spoils. It's like, well, he's probably gonna win now, but then throws Danielle under the bus during Black History Month, saying she is the worst trader ever. Whenever she made it every single episode, she was just like banished during her final episode. Like, what is going on here?

SPEAKER_05

Not the worst crime he's committed in Black History Month.

SPEAKER_01

And don't forget the fact that now they have like a lawsuit over the outfit because now they played like didn't they steal it and reproduce all the murder shirts?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I read about that.

SPEAKER_05

But people will forget this all when the show and Alan Wynn Emmy's in the summer.

SPEAKER_01

Not if my campaign against this show, because honestly, so many other shows are doing it better right now, especially Drag Race. Like Drag Race, yes, that boot order is killing me, but I'm still deeply entertained by the show. It really has. But yeah, I'm like trying to figure out anything good to talk about with the traders because it's been such a disappointment. It's felt like homework.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, I I mean I did like the moment of you know, Rob jumping from the helicopter to win and I guess to partly impress Moira. That was a cool moment. It kind of reminded me of Sawyer jumping out of the helicopter and the end of season four of Lost, but that's about it.

SPEAKER_05

I mean, Monet mentioning the possibility of the show casting her and Bob on Trader's All-Stars, something that Drag Race deprived us of, is something that I would very much watch because I need them on a reality show together.

SPEAKER_01

I'm just thinking, how would they be on All-Stars, All Winners, like another version of that?

SPEAKER_05

It would be so like it's just it would just be siblings there. Like it would just be so fun. Then I like I would pay for just untopped of them on a couch each, just fighting with each other and it just being like nothing.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, I know. So, y'all, yeah. I mean, anything else you want to say about the traitors? It is so bad that we are like 30-minute podcast one and done.

SPEAKER_05

For five episodes.

SPEAKER_01

For five episodes. I'm trying to think of anything interesting that happened.

SPEAKER_00

I'm convinced that the season probably would have been a little more interesting if they had made either Johnny or Tara a traitor and secret traitoring the whole. Yeah. And have them doing the whole. I truly this is my bestie. I truly believe that they're not a traitor. We're both faithfuls. And it turns out that one of them is lying the whole time. That would have made the season a little juicier and messier than just having the two of them be faithfuls all the way through.

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_05

I like the idea if they bet if they were to have cast a secret trader better for um a secret trader and a trader making it to the very end, and then the secret trader winning, and that would be like the ultimate most shock ever. But I don't know how you could accomplish that unless production were really involved.

SPEAKER_01

I think they could do it. They just have to get the casting down and honestly fix the missions to where they're actually important and matter to the show. Because that's one thing I think all the other franchises do a lot better is make the missions important to the game.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. I think someone once said that um they should make it part of the missions is for the traders to like do stuff to increase the money for if they win. And I like that to an extent. It just requires not being so obvious in who the person is like doing extra work or something. Like, say an example would be someone who takes leadership in like rowing a boat, they get more money, something like that. Something less like, oh, they're sabotaging the mission.

SPEAKER_01

I don't know. I'm just I'm disappointed. This show we generally have loved in the past, even whenever it wasn't the best. It's like it's sad to see it go out like this.

SPEAKER_05

Well, I have a question to lighten our spirits a bit. Who who do we want to see on an upcoming trader season? Who who hasn't been cast yet?

SPEAKER_01

I want an all-drag race season. I need it to have Bosco, Mistress Isabel Brooks, Acid Betty, Ginger Minge, obviously.

SPEAKER_02

Candy Muse.

SPEAKER_01

Candy Muse. All violence forward people, but then just randomly bring Kate back, bring Parvity back, bring Sari back because I want to see Kate fight with everybody. Bring Tiffany Pollard, make this House of Villains.

SPEAKER_02

I thought you'll they ever give her a break from House of Villains to just come do a seasonal trainers.

SPEAKER_05

Do we bring Oprah?

SPEAKER_01

Bring Oprah and Gail and make Gail a traitor.

SPEAKER_05

Yes.

SPEAKER_01

We need to bring some soap opera actresses. So bring Lisa Renna back, then bring Eileen Davidson.

SPEAKER_05

Bring Joy Behar.

SPEAKER_01

Oh my gosh, she might actually kill a person.

SPEAKER_00

Bring Jack Kay on there.

SPEAKER_05

Yes. Bring bring Jack K. Henry and uh Regina King. And they can recreate their iconic Watch What Happens Live Drunken moment.

SPEAKER_00

The greatest watch what happens live episode ever.

SPEAKER_01

The only one I voluntarily have watched.

SPEAKER_00

I still stand by my previous, and I know that you know it would cost a lot, but it would be worth it if they just had like an all-Broadway edition of the Traders. Just like bring on Laura Bonanti, bring on Megan Hilty, bring on all of the theater actors.

SPEAKER_01

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00

Audrey McDonald and Patty Lupone.

SPEAKER_01

Oh my goodness, yes.

SPEAKER_05

Bernadette Peters.

SPEAKER_01

Yes.

SPEAKER_05

Oh, that's so good.

SPEAKER_01

I do think Laura Benanti wins out of all of us.

SPEAKER_05

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00

I think Daniel Radcliffe would probably do it for free.

SPEAKER_01

The traitors can be fun. They just have to cast Celia Emery every season. Celia Emery and Kate Chastain.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

See, that's how bad this season of the Traders was. That we have 47 dream versions of this. Like, imagine Jinx Monsoon and Dela being on the Traders, but it's Johnny and Tara, and Dala is a trader, and Jinx is like, what's happening?

SPEAKER_05

Oh no, you can't make Dala a trader because she would absolutely just ask to leave.

SPEAKER_01

I know, that's why it'd be funny.

SPEAKER_00

I was also thinking that you could put Megan and Cardi B on the traders as well. They would have so much fun just the two of them together.

SPEAKER_01

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_05

Broadway's latest Megan the Stallion. Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, I love her. But yeah. I mean, y'all, that's the traitors. I'm so disappointed that we got to this point, but I look forward to the US going full UK and just having a regular non-celebrity version.

SPEAKER_00

I am looking forward to that. I think a couple of my friends want to audition for that edition for that as well.

SPEAKER_01

So I've already signed Jesse up. Sorry, Jesse.

SPEAKER_02

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01

You're making it to the end.

SPEAKER_02

I'm interested to see. I'm glad again I like that they're separate. Because, like we said with season one, it was not fun to watch. Like I love season one, but having like the reality chars, stars, housewives, gamers versus regular people, a little awkward. So I think having them separate and having two different seasons a year would be cool.

SPEAKER_01

Agreed. And I feel like if they're gonna do another celebrity one, which they probably will for next year, that if they want to bring people back, don't do a full all-stars, which seems to not actually be real, even though there's the rumor out there, like people reporting it. I do think they should bring back some people who deserve a better trader season, like a Rachel Riley, who I think would do a lot better.

SPEAKER_05

Bisha Williams or Peppermint.

SPEAKER_01

Peppermint, obviously Peppermint. And then I think Britney Haynes, because I'm still upset that they did not give Britney Haynes the full Britney Haynes edit because we know how great her commentary is.

SPEAKER_00

Also, one other question did you see any of the chemistry between Rob and Moira that Andy was being so insistent about in the reunion? Or do you think that they hooked up?

SPEAKER_01

Here's the thing. Maybe it's because I'm very queer, but I did not see an ounce of chemistry between those two people. And I say this as a person who watches soap operas and has a soap opera wedding DVD that is just all straight couples.

SPEAKER_02

I was gonna say, I think it's like a straight thing where like it's like a male and a female. It's like, well, obviously they're in love. Like are they they're their brother and sister or they're in love. Like it's a very kindergarten way of thinking about it.

SPEAKER_01

Or it's the Folgers commercial where it's both.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

I was like, I truly never got that impression. I got the impression that she truly just thought this was her friend who was gonna she was gonna win them, and they were gonna win together, and it was gonna be cool. I don't think I ever sensed anything like romantic.

SPEAKER_05

No, I saw nothing. The most romantic thing I saw in this show was Johnny and Tara just being like we're best friends.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, exactly. But again, as we said, that's just straight people thinking. Like, I think there was more chemistry between Boston Rob and Bob the drag queen.

SPEAKER_02

So look at them now.

SPEAKER_00

CB, CB and Phaedra.

SPEAKER_01

Oh my gosh, I still have uh I'll send you guys. I'm gonna make more iPhone stickers.

SPEAKER_02

I think the one thing about this season is like we I think May of last year is when they announced the cast. And from then on, everybody was like, oh. Specifically with the two people we talked about, we're like, oh, that sucks. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. Like, I think you do need the Kates and the Phaedra's there. And we did have it with Lisa and Candace for a little bit, but not long enough. Like, you maybe in the middle of the season, we always just need to bring Kate Chastain back just to ruffle feathers.

SPEAKER_00

No, just have her host the reunion.

SPEAKER_01

Right, please. This is why I'm so excited for House of Villains, because it's Kate versus the world.

SPEAKER_02

I must say I somehow had enough free time last week to watch all the House of Villains episodes that were out, and I watched the Survivor Mirror when it was live. So my God. I don't know how.

SPEAKER_01

I just uh I don't know how you did it, but you're the superhero of all of us watching TV because here's what we're gonna be talking about next. What TV shows we're watching? Because last week was the Olympics of television, not including the actual Olympics. So reality shows. We had the traders finale reunion, we had their Survivor three-hour premiere. Thank goodness I had dog school graduation. We also had UK versus the world, which I think Rue is having the best time on UK versus the world always. And then we had Drag Race and Untucked. I had Bridgerton the second half of the season, which I'm gonna start trying to force people to watch. It's so much fun. What else were we watching?

SPEAKER_05

The pit industry.

SPEAKER_01

Industry, see. We me and Jesse with our soap operas that we're getting behind on.

SPEAKER_05

Love story.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, if you need like some more trash TV, yes.

SPEAKER_05

Oh shrinking.

SPEAKER_01

Shrinking. See, television is so good right now that whenever the training. Yep. See, the stories are telling.

SPEAKER_00

I finally watched Reality Check Inside America's next top model. And yeah, there are so many people who need to be hit in the face repeatedly with a folding chair. Tyra Bones being number one.

SPEAKER_01

I would say the network is number one, then Tyra, then every other judge who blames Tyra for all the crimes. And I'm like, no, you were there too. You could have stepped in.

SPEAKER_00

Exactly, Jay. You were sniggling and giggling so much throughout all of the challenges that you put these contestants through. And then to be like, oh, this was chipping away at my soul. It was eroding my soul, is like, how many checks did you cash before your soul started eroding, Jay? Answer that.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly.

SPEAKER_05

That's I think why I respect Miss Jay the most because she said, Yeah, we did some bad things. That's like not fully, but she at least said she didn't be like, I had no control. She was like, We did those things.

SPEAKER_00

I especially loved, I think someone had pointed out how the second episode started with immediately started with Tyra talking about how she wasn't in control or everything. It wasn't these things that happened weren't her call to make. And yet you see in big bold text Tyra Banks creator/slash executive producer on the screen while she's saying all of this is just like, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And the fact that Netflix is protecting Kenya Barris as the co-creator and producer of the show for a long time says a lot because he has such a big Netflix steal. And it's like, no, he's got crimes too. But I'm excited for the other doc.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. I just, yeah, I watched that documentary as well and was like, I didn't learn anything new that I didn't already know. And I mean, I still sort of have a I will watch clips of the show because it's just sort of part of my like growing up, but still recognize how like it's a torture it was a torturous experience of a of a hopefully bygone era of reality television.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, the fact that This reality check ended with Tyra just trying to subtly announce that, oh, oh, get ready for a cycle twenty-five of top model. I was just like Kristen Wick and Bridesmaids. Like, are you fucking kidding me? Like, after all that we've just watched, and what? Are we supposed to be excited about the fact that we're gonna have a new cycle of contestants for you to emotionally and psychologically damage to try to put them in the modeling industry without any support from you or anyone else?

SPEAKER_01

I that's why I'm curious about the Hulu doc that's gonna come out soon with a lot of the people who were not in the Netflix one. Oh and that's coming in March. So everybody look out because the crimes, they're gonna be there's gonna be some scenes. So it's we'll see how long this top model reboot revitalization lasts. I don't think it'll get too far. But as we get out of here, everyone just promote a good TV show. Where can the good people find you and what should they be watching?

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, you can find me across all social medias at Own Daily, whether that's Blue Sky, Instagram, just talking about films, um, televi I mean I'm watching a lot of television shows, but I guess just because I want everyone to watch it is Industry, which the finale for the fourth season um airs tonight. Thankfully the show has been renewed for a fifth, unfortunately, final season, but it's the HBO show that more people should be watching.

SPEAKER_01

Love that. Brian, thank you for coming on as always. I'm gonna drag you back just for whatever we want to talk about. Where can the good people find you and what should they be watching?

SPEAKER_00

Well, the good people can find me on Blue Sky and Instagram at HellresidentNY. Uh, you can find my work at Pajiba.com and my older work at uprocks.com. And one I still have a lot of catching up to do, but one good TV show that people should be seeking out that I just finished watching is Big Mood with Nicola Coughlin and Lydia West.

SPEAKER_03

Yes.

SPEAKER_00

Hilarious and heartbreaking, and series two cannot get here soon enough.

SPEAKER_01

I know. I am so excited. It's so good. Jesse, where can the good people find you? Your recent podcast appearance, and what should they be watching?

SPEAKER_02

The good people can find me. I'm Speak Up Jesse across social media platforms. Um, I just recorded an episode which just got posted of the female um film gaze podcast with Morgan. Uh, we talked about Jawbreaker. Uh this month she's talking about um female cinematographers and Amy Vincent, who also was a cinematographer for Songsung Blue, um, was a cinematographer for Jawbreaker, which is like one of my favorite movies from my childhood, even though I should not have been watching that movie or buying it on VHS when I was able to.

SPEAKER_01

But we definitely were.

SPEAKER_02

But I absolutely did. I literally remember being in elementary school and thinking about the hallway walks um from that movie. Um, the show, which last time I think we were on, I talked to Owen about how I still needed to watch Canada's Drag Race season six that came out or finished last month. And you were right, Owen. It was so good. Literally, like after by the second or third episode, I already knew everybody's names. I was already invested. I was already sad to see people go. I'm already I'm now also upset that the runner-up is not going, is not rumored to be on All-Stars because she was great. Um, I actually really wanted her to win, but I understand why the person who won won. It was just a really fun season. I love Canada's drag race. So I recommend everybody watching and catch up on it, especially if this all-star season is happening. Um, again, it's really fun, it goes really quickly. So definitely recommend watching season six and the other seasons because I'm excited to see some of them come back.

SPEAKER_01

I love that. I'm Chell 725 on the Blue Sky serialized letterbox. I have The Cute Division, a James Bond movie marathon podcast with Gavin. Brian's been a guest, Jesse's been a guest, Owen's gonna be a guest whenever we get to that movie. And I've heard it's a good one. People better not be lying to me. And then I also have Across the Hooniverse. It just debuted. Me and Paige are doing that. Once again, Brian has been a guest and is gonna be a guest again. I'm really, really excited. We're all gonna have so much fun over there. And of course, we're shh, my stories are on on all platforms. Please rate, review the pod, let us know what you're watching. One thing I'm watching is all of the soap opera sweeps. And as we said, all the stories are telling. And we have a really fun interview with former head writer of Young and the Restless and Bold and Beautiful, Kay Alden, like five-time Emmy winner, worked on them shows for decades, basically created the hot girls soap opera format that we know today. She was a delight, and we might even have her back. She was so much fun. So, everyone go look forward to that. So, thank you for listening, and we'll see you at the next story time.