Episode 9 - Dr Jenny Gordon - The Mother in Lawsome, Communication Specialist

Jenny has spent much of her life hiding pain, loss, and betrayal behind a brave, sunshiny face. Behind that optimism lies the story of a broken marriage, a lost home, and the slow erosion of her true self while trying to please others. She learned to shine despite the darkness, seeking the light in difficult times and finding glimmers of hope every day.

Her journey has been one of owning both shadow and light - facing unbearable emotions without running, while simultaneously showing up for the world with courage, humour, and heart. Jenny has learned that masks can serve a purpose, but only when worn consciously, and that vulnerability is a source of strength.

Through her experiences, she has cultivated self-belief, recognising that betrayal and hardship do not define her - rather, her response, reflection, and continued growth shape who she is. By embracing all facets of herself, Jenny has uncovered a whole, resilient, and brilliant being, and she now steps into visibility, showing others that it’s possible to live authentically without losing one’s essence.

Her poem, Doing Time, beautifully encapsulates this balance - the internal struggle and external resilience, the dance of shadow and light, and the reclamation of self.

Jenny’s story reveals the power of embracing both shadow and light. She has learned to face pain, loss, and betrayal with courage, while still showing up as her full, authentic self. Her journey reminds us that vulnerability is strength, and true visibility is found when we hold all parts of ourselves with love.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jenuineconsulting/

https://motherinlawesome.com/

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Hi, I'm Joanna, and this is Stories from Behind the Mask, the parts we edit out. Every week I'll be sitting down with entrepreneurs who've built businesses, created legacies, and dare to show up in the world. And we talk about the stories they usually keep to themselves. The doubts, the wins, the personal challenges, the moments that changed everything. This is about being seen, unpolished, and completely real. So, if you're ready for honesty and truth, it's time to share today's story from behind the mask.

SPEAKER_01 0:56

We have a wonderful Jenny McGuldin, who is just a beautiful person, but I just love to switch when I see her. Um, on today's podcast. So hello Jenny. How are you?

SPEAKER_03 1:08

I'm very well, thank you. A little bit tired from the big festoon, but very excited to be here.

SPEAKER_01 1:15

Yes, and it's just wonderful. So Jenny was part of my Unmasked project, as was all the podcasters who are um coming around each week. So, Jenny, tell us a little bit about the physical interpretation intro on Sagin and Jupiter.

SPEAKER_03 1:32

Oh, um, so I am a um a human. I'm I'm a multifaceted human. Um, I have my own business which works around the uh communication. I can't, you'd think I'd have my teeth in, wouldn't you? Um personality trait and communication specialist. And I uh my specialist, my specialist, my specialism is uh the mother-in-lawsome. So I work with people who are either about to enter that in-law space or are in it and finding it a little bit tricky to navigate. So that's my focus.

SPEAKER_01 2:16

Love that. And we met last year, didn't we? At in the January we met last, didn't we? And then February came around, March came around, and we had the conversation about masking, and that's where unmasked came for. So it's Jenny's fault that I'm doing this.

SPEAKER_03 2:32

Do you know? And when you said we was it only then that we met? Had we not met before then? No. I just feel like, and I think that that's a really interesting point, isn't it? That you can you can meet people when you meet the right, when you meet your people, um, it feels like you've known them forever. So when when you when you said I was thinking that I was thinking, was it only then? Surely we've known each other for years. Um but if if I I I believe you. Um, and yes, we had a conversation in a in uh in a group, uh, and you were talking about whether you'd have this fabulous idea and you were wondering whether it would fly or not. And I think I think I was the first of many people in the group that morning to say it sounds the most fabulous thing. Do it, do it, do it. So, yes, I'm really I I'm fully supportive um and happy to take responsibility for nudging you in the in the direction of unmasked uh and obviously it was uh a no-brainer for me to be part of the first the first co is it a cohort? Yeah, cohort. Yes, the first cohort, the first group.

SPEAKER_01 3:53

Um uh yes so going on from the unmaster, we want to delve a bit deeper into your story, Jimmy. Um so part of your unmaster story, you said that you spent much of your life hiding pain loss and the trail behind the brave sunshiny face.

SPEAKER_03 4:20

Yes. Uh I think as children, we learn quite early if we're smart, bright, intelligent. I think we are bombarded, even in the best, easiest of families, and I had a really happy, um easy childhood, but you learn very early on, because of the society that we live in, um what you know what's ex what's acceptable, and um you can't see that on a podcast, but I don't you know that inverted commas around what's acceptable and what's not. Yes, finger quote air quotes. Uh so you learn very early as a child uh what is what is okay and what what makes um what makes people like you, um, I think I would say. And as I learned much later on, you know, our personality traits that we're born with, we have uh a predisposition. So for me, uh people liking me was uh was an embedded kind of predisposition that I unknowingly had, was born with, and therefore I learned very quickly that my nickname as a child was Little Miss Sunshine, because I learned very quickly that actually if you're easy, people adults perceive you as easy to have around, then and no trouble, uh then that's that's a way to be. So I I think that was a subconscious learning at the time, and then you kind of store it in your backpack, don't you? Um, and so later on, when uh a challenge is hit much later on as a as a woman, you know, after 23 years of marriage, um, and three children of my own, um, when when my world fell to pieces, of course, you you're left uh sitting on the floor in bits, thinking, okay, this isn't what I planned. This isn't how this isn't what I thought. Oh, I wasn't expecting that. Um, and so you you have a dig deep to find out what you've got in your backpack that will help you through. Um, and of course, sitting at the top was the sunshiney um everything's okay mask, which of course fitted beautifully because I'd had a lot of practice wearing it. So that felt like um a safe thing to put in front um of the of the pain, the loss, the betrayal that that I was facing, because those things, loss, betrayal, are really grief, um, anger, frustration, those are emotions that other people find really uncomfortable. And so, in order to protect other people from all of those feelings that I was having all at the same time, it's quite overwhelming. Um you you you put on the face that people will feel comfortable with, so that they don't go, oh, don't go, don't go near Jenny.

SPEAKER_02 8:01

She's really, she's really going through it at the moment, she's really prickly, she's feeling all of these things, and she's really uncomfortable to be around, so let's just avoid her.

SPEAKER_03 8:10

Um, and so that was why uh I reached for that, tried and tested, you know, little Miss Sunshine.

SPEAKER_01 8:20

Do you think it um quietly cost you anything growing up? Putting on the little Miss Sunshine mask.

SPEAKER_03 8:29

I yes, I I read a really interesting piece recently about eldest children and how they they take on, and I only learned this really recently, I and for or learned this perspective really recently. Um, and I firmly believe that our parents are are doing the best that they can. Um uh and I love my parents dearly and they're uh I lost my mum recently, um, and they lost um they lost a baby in between me and my sister. Um, and so I think that although as adults they they carried their grief themselves, I think the thing that I've learned myself when encountering loss and grief is however hard you try to contain it, it seeps out, doesn't it? Um seeps out of places, pause. Um, and so even though both of my parents, and I wouldn't have I wouldn't have been able to tell you in words at the time, but I think your your energy, your, you know, your energy, your subconscious body picks that up. And so I think that um that's what I did as a as a child. And when my when my little sister, my younger sister, was born, you know, she it she was extra precious because of the loss that they had sustained beforehand. Um I was three, so you don't you're not able to articulate that on any um you know cognitive level, but I think your I think your soul knows it. And therefore, being so being good and being easy um meant that I it was probably the first uh opportunity to learn not to ask for what you want or what you need. Uh so to put so I think that's where I learned um and it at huge cost later on um to not ask for what I needed to keep me to feel safe. Uh and again, it was something that it was only when I did the hard work much, much later on, that that you know, that I I that I was able to reflect on that.

SPEAKER_01 11:06

I never asked, because I always got a no. So then you stop asking. And then as you get older, you do things for yourself because there's no point asking, because you're not gonna get anywhere, or someone's gonna say no constantly.

SPEAKER_03 11:20

And because I didn't ask, I didn't I it it I didn't fear the no, I just didn't ask because I thought um it wasn't okay to ask, and therefore um I just didn't. And so later on, when I remember a coach, um, my early coaching experience, and um uh my coach said to me, you know, what what do you want? What is it that and I I didn't know, I wasn't able, I couldn't tell you what my needs were because I had squashed them to such an extent that when somebody asked me, I was like, oh, oh, that feels a bit uncomfortable. I I have no idea. And it wasn't a gen, it was a genuine, I don't I don't know, because I didn't, because I'd never I didn't I hadn't given myself the time or the space um or the or the opportunity to think about that um because I was so busy looking after everybody else's needs because that was really easy and the and of course the more you the more you look after other people's needs the more they tell you what they want. So it keeps you really busy.

SPEAKER_01 12:30

Where was the moment that things started to shift for you?

SPEAKER_03 12:36

Um being able to ask people being able to ask. Well, it was funny, so I it's I I have a really, really good good and I have many really good and wise friends who I was able to kind of take the mask off for with. Uh and so that they I will be forever grateful for them. Um but I have I also have a very wise friend who uh does uh flat batch flower remedies and all sorts of interesting things. She's she's a very wise woman, and we were talking about flower remedies, and she said, hmm, she said, I think um I'm I'm getting a really strong feeling that you need agrimony, and agrimony um is the flower remedy for brave faces, putting a brave face on. And I said, Absolutely not, I don't like it, I don't want it, and I don't need it. Oh, I don't like the sound of that. I said, um, and it was it was out before I'd even thought about it. And she went, Whoa, um methinks you do protest too much. What if you were to try it and um take it? And I said, Oh, that you know, it feels a really scary thing, it feels a really scary thing to do. Um, and she said, Well, they're gentle remedies, so they're not going to, you know, you're not going to feel like you've been smacked around the head, but just give you, you know, just see what's underneath. Um and because I don't like to say no, I I tried really hard to go on. Um so she sent me, she sent me the bottle and it sat on the side looking at me, and I kept walking around it, and then eventually I kind of um came to it. Um and it was really hard. Um to because I had to the thing about taking your mask off is that you have to sit with all of those feelings that you've been dancing around, avoiding, shutting in a cupboard, putting in a box. Um I said I wasn't really um putting in a box. So you have to you have to sit with them, or you you choose to sit, I chose to sit with them. Um and I would be lying if I said that that wasn't really hard. It's much easier to pretend they're not there, and I'd had 20, 20 years of pretending they weren't there, maybe more than that. And you might have the odd peak every now and then. Um, and as I you know, over the years I'd started to do, I'd started to do quite a lot of development work on myself and self lots of stuff. So I'd I'd kind of it is like an onion, isn't it? People say that all the time, but it is, it's that well, you peel the first one off and you and then you think, oh, um, oh yes, here I am. And then um I think what agrimony did was to really um get to the bare face, um, and that was really yeah, that was it's hard.

SPEAKER_01 16:15

Sounds like what lost the sound okay when you're back, I love that, isn't it wonderful? I was gonna ask you how how risky that felt letting that part of it go. Um I wouldn't say risk was it risky?

SPEAKER_03 16:49

Uncomfortable. Uncom definitely uncomfortable. Um I didn't I didn't feel I felt if I was to use the word risk, it would it felt like the risk of keeping it the mask on was greater than taking it off. And when I did the work around uh when I took and it it it wasn't a it's not a quick process, is it? Um it when you when you get into and I what I realized what I understood say working um working with my friend was that some of the stuff that I was carrying was as I said earlier, it wasn't mine, it was um it was other people's so I had and I think we all um we all take on sometimes the emotions the energy of other people inadvertently um and so I was able to own what was mine and let go of what wasn't and so the balance it felt like I was um I'd been brought back into balance and it doesn't mean that you know horrid things don't happen um because they do and they have, but I'm I feel I'm in a better place to be able to um that that self-awareness that kind of oh oh yes I I have a tendency to do that um to take on other people's uh other people's energy um and make it mine um and actually when you when you know when you know you have a tendency to do that then you can then you can kind of manage it, can't you?

SPEAKER_01 18:53

You can and I definitely being an empath, I think quite a lot of us are nummas or empaths and we take on people's energies. Yeah you can tell how people are feeling.

SPEAKER_03 19:04

Yes, exactly. Uh and and so I think um what I've learned is that I can I can understand and empathize with somebody else without without taking on their energy, so that I can there's a um you know there's a there's a shield, if you like, that protects my uh and a shield's different from a mask, isn't it? You put the shield down, you know, you control the shield. I think sometimes the mask slips on without us noticing. It does.

SPEAKER_01 19:40

Is there anything that surprised you when you s or came out of the other side of this this mask?

SPEAKER_03 19:47

Always always. Um I think that knowing, knowing, knowing yourself, and it's a journey that's never done, is it? The the I don't like that word journey. Adventure, I prefer to think of it as an adventure, um, because you never get there. Whereas if it's a journey, at some point you hope there's a destination. Whereas, of course, um with us as people there isn't really a destination, is there? So it's it's an ongoing adventure, this adventure we call life. Um uh and that I think the surprising thing is that actually when I when I took the mask off, um there was such a there was such a relief. Um there was such a relief. And I think when I when I lost my mum, the um the the mask was kind of just broken into little pieces. There was a you know smither was smashed as it's like um there is no uh there's no mask anymore. There isn't, you know, even if I wanted to, it's like, oh I've just got the bit. Um and I think what I what I learned was, or one of the many things I learned was that those those emotions that we have been, emotions aren't binary, are they? They're not, you know, we we tend to get oh they're they're good or they're bad. And what I learned, which was surprising, was that they're not they're not anything. They are they are just emotions, they are just them, and that they they serve a purpose at the time, and that when we when we um when we s when we sort of sit with them rather than avoiding them skirting around and running away, putting them in a box and thinking, oh, I'll deal with that later. Um, when we sit with them, um, then you can you can start to think about, you know, it's that I talk about four A's a lot, so that acknowledgement, acknowledging the the emotion, the feeling, um appreciating, which sounds a weird thing, doesn't it? But appreciating how it's serving you in the moment and then that accepting that it's part of who you are it it it's the light and the dark it's the you know that nothing we'd just be a straight line wouldn't we if if it wasn't for those moments um so appreciating that even even though it's really hard um and sometimes it's even harder than that um that you can accept it as it's just a part of you and it isn't forever um and I think when you when you can when you can not make those because we we we're taught are we all negative emotions they're not negative they're just hard um and when we accept them as just part of who we are actually it I felt that I had a bit more control I don't like that word either but I had an understanding of what they were and therefore um I could I could kind of yeah understand them better and it's like oh okay yes they're hard some days they're really hard uh and some days they're even harder than really hard but actually tomorrow is another day and I'll feel differently tomorrow and that there are things that I can do to um mitigate them or you know work with them rather than trying to push them away and going I don't like them they're negative I don't then they're not for me as like oh well suddenly they are for you you cannot escape let's work with them rather than against them. Is there anything that you'd say to anyone Mr now who's having I don't know a love creat relationship with their feelings of maybe taking off a part of their mask or a layer or sometimes it's it's about you know I I've kind of did that it's about pla it's like a band-aid a plaster isn't it um that you know my background's nursing so you can you can you can take it off a bit at a time you can you know poodle around the edges with it um or you can rip it off and there is you know people will say oh it's better to rip it off you have to do what's right for you um but at some point you have to find a way to take it off and whether you whether you take it off like I did in a kind of rip I I hung on to mine for a long time and then rip it off or whether you calmly go I don't need this anymore I'm gonna put it down or whether you say peel it off really gradually um all the corners peep underneath it doesn't matter it doesn't matter how you do it but that conversation um or conversations are really important and the other thing is some some of us can do it by ourselves uh which is absolutely fine and dandy and other people like myself uh I I found it easier to do it with somebody to bounce um you know to talk things through with um and so my invitation to people who are struggling is think about is there somebody who will listen they're not they're not there to um give you any answers they're there to listen so that you can some of us are external processors and it's easier to talk it out loud to somebody than talk it out loud to yourself and there are other people who would rather do it by themselves. So there isn't there isn't there isn't a right or wrong way to do it and I think so often we get caught up in the shoulders um you know I should have I should have done this and I need to do this and somebody's told me that and again it's that external noise there will always be people who tell you that there is one way to to deal with emotion to deal with this you need therapy you need a coat you need there are as many ways to deal with things as there are emotions that we have and it's about trusting that you know the right way for you that's really important in that what works for you is not going to work for someone else is it not necessarily no and we we so often get caught up in that oh well I must I must do this because it's the thing of the moment or somebody has recommended or you know and and it might not be and that's okay it doesn't you know it doesn't make you wrong doesn't make you anything other than it isn't it isn't the right thing for me and I think we there's a lot of particularly on social media there's a lot of noise isn't there lots of noise and you can get very easily sucked into one cyclone or another and it can be easy to not trust your gut and your your inner your inner you know my inner Jenny your inner jo they know um they know what you need it's just that we don't sometimes they're quite quiet so you have to listen and we don't always we don't always take the time do we to listen so that giving yourself um and I don't I'm sure I'm not the only one if I get if I get a thing where I you know my gut says um don't do that I kind of go oh it can't be that can't be right that can't no no I are do I do you argue with yours I know that can't be right and I'm sure I I didn't hear it right or you know um I and usually when I override it's a bit like arguing with a sat nav um you know when you your your sat nav knows more than you and I'm I'm sure I'm not the only one who's gone my sat nav has altered the route um and and I've gone oh I don't want to go that way so I ignore them and then I carry on and just around the corner there's a 13 mile tailback traffic jam and I'm stuck in it for ages. And I thought you know if I'd listened um and I think your gut is the same that sometimes we your gut will tell you but we override it or we ignore it or we kind of you know round it. So yeah um your gut will usually like the sat now take you the way the way you need to go even if it's a detour or it feels like a detour at the time. Always trust your gut. Always trust your gut and you know doing nothing is still a decision isn't it so to to choose to not to not address it to not do anything you're still making a choice and people we we forget that sometimes I'm very mindful of that myself is that actually if I'm choosing to stay where I am that is a decision that I've made absolutely yes and you don't have to you don't have to go the route compulsory exactly so we get one of the things we get to do isn't it we we don't we don't get uh we don't get uh we don't have control over many things um you know what's happening in the world um all of those things but we do get to choose we get to choose our attitude and we get to choose um what we want to do and what we don't so what does what does being unmasked Jennifer codes again mean to you in this moment in time how does Jenny feeling it's given me uh the freedom to be fully myself uh and that's such a precious gift um and if ever I if ever if ever I need a moment where you know I'm thinking all this feels like a big thing um I might just slide back into my cupboard um and be less visible I just I just look at my mask because it's on the wall I just I can see it so I just look at it um and it it it's a kind of visual a visual nudge to go you've done all this don't waste you know don't waste it um you had this opportunity you you took you took the opportunity um you've done the work don't don't waste it that's crazy that's like letting champagne go flat that's a terrible thing isn't it oh who do that um you know you would you just wouldn't you've got this fabulous bottle of I don't know Bollinger whatever it is um you wouldn't take the top off and then just leave it would you no be a heinous crime would be a heinous um so you want so that's that's so the mask reminds me of the um the the freedom to you know um bubble and that and that without you can't sparkle without the light that you need the light and the dark um you know you can't you don't see the the stars are there all the time but you don't see them during the day do you you only see them at night so that thing about actually um being being your best being the best version of yourself being fully you isn't about being perfect it isn't going I've only got I'm you know I'm I'm only made of rainbows and unicorn poo um um I'm made of all the things um all of the things all of those facets um and that's the joy of it and that actually it doesn't I don't have to please all the people all the time you can please yourself most of the time exactly and that in doing and that in being me um actually there you know I am naturally um I do have a sunny disposition so that mask isn't a isn't a pretend thing um but now I feel it's true sunshine as opposed to masked sunshine which is very it's a different quality of sunshine is it's not sunshine in the winter months it's sunshine in the summer months it's when the sun yeah it's when the sun's supposed to shine you know um and the on the on the days on the days that are hard and the sun shines behind the you know you know it's above the cloud don't you but you can't see it so on those days when when you know what heavy days hard days um it's the ability to go yeah the sun's the sun's behind the cloud and and and that's all right too and people people haven't gone um oh you must be avoided they've gone they've gone what do you need and what of course what I've learned to say is actually what I need is um company to walk to go for a walk um it would be really lovely to uh do XY or Z so that I've I've learned it's I say I'm as all of us I'm a work in progress um but I've learned that actually asking for what I need sometimes I might get no and that's okay too um but I'm not but I don't I've I've learned to ask for what I need um and the more you do it the easier it gets takes some time again women are women you know women we're socially conditioned to not ask aren't we yeah yeah and so the more that we the more that we ask and we feel we we talk about um you know so when I when I go to have my nails done you know that used to be something that I would think you know it's is it am I being indulged self-indulgence I was like and now I think yes I am and isn't it fabulous it's self-care of course pretty nails I know very exciting should be flapping them everywhere um and I think and in those conversations that we had the reason I've got pretty nails is because that somebody at the event that I was at yesterday had these lovely nails and I said to her your nails are fabulous and she said thank you for noticing she said I love them and I was like can I have a look at them so I'm going to have my nails done tomorrow and I want to be able to explain um so we had a conversation um which seems random but actually you know she was serving behind a bar um it was it was really nice it was that noticing isn't it noticing that people who are doing really good things for you um and uh and paying attention noticing it's a good thing noticing being curious yes and asking questions yes never asking the questions the next question is you wrote us you wrote a poem to go with your story didn't you I did have we got it I have no but you have I have and I don't know what this relatively it's not long it's a few would you like me to read it I I'd love you to read it I d I do have it somewhere I just don't have it to hand um was it was it called it was called outside in wasn't it or inside out I've got an even better idea you can read it I'll put it in the chat oh yes and I'll try not to cry we bear with the chorus there we go it's in the chat yeah we can read it to anybody else because it's such a wonderful oh yes doing time and we never know how much time we have do we so it's always useful to so yes uh so this is my poem doing time on the inside sitting with uncertainty facing the unfaceable dancing with despair meeting those emotions not running away almost unbearable counting the days the hours sometimes the minutes feeling the love mourning the loss on the outside sharing a smile business as usual helping with hope looking for glimmers laughter through tears steering myself through keeping it real ish taking the time to feel the love mourning the loss inside outside two halves make a whole a whole beal a whole being of brilliance sunshine and shade more than the sum of the parts deep strength from within courage from the middle wisdom from above fueled by family and friendships living with love inside and outside multifaceted perspectives creating new shapes new ways of being rejoining the pieces restore the flow love and loss two sides of the coin hold tight to what matters find peace letting go of the mask oh it's wonderful I hadn't read that well obviously I hadn't read that for a while um it's been a while yeah it has been a while and um but all of it is still the set is still true isn't it it's uh it's uh um a poem for all seasons I think um you should turn that off and frame it and put it with your marsh I think I sh yes I should I will yes I'll have to save the chat I can send it to I I've got it somewhere oh Jenny that's just it's just always so beautiful to speak to you and I adore your sunshine disposition in whatever form it comes because you're just so you're such a beautiful person.

SPEAKER_00 39:27

Um and where can everybody find you where where can they find you and come and see you and speak to you and they can they can find me uh on Instagram I'm going to be doing lots of things on Instagram um because I've just put a load a load of things together from my mother-in-law some project um they can find me on LinkedIn they can find me on all social media platforms they can find me weekly on Wednesdays on the Renny Show podcast um that they can find me there um and say um I think that's everywhere else can they find me my webs my new website is just under construction so that looks like a building site so don't go there what's your what's your um instagram handle as it looked at the mother in law the at the mother in lawsome I'll put that in the um and it's uh say I'm um dr jenny gordon at genuine consulting on LinkedIn and just yeah I need to I need to do that thing don't I where you um are the same across all of your platforms um can you tell from tech's not my yeah tech admin more I know I have to do that um but I haven't worked out how to do it but I will I will um well it will go in show notes anyway thank you so much and that's a wrap for today thank you so much that's flown past it has it's like it's only 10 minutes I know definitely more than 10 minutes well yeah wonderful thank you so much Johnny um thanks for being a part of Unmasked thank you and I say um hopefully um I'll be able to watch with with joy all the new unmaskers who are doing the next the next cohort and if I can do anything to help you know you just have to ask and I'll never say no all right Jenny well thank you so much oh thanks Jen that was lovely you take care and uh we will speak soon and you'll let me know when does it when does it go out out out um I'm gonna let them know yes I'll watch whoever's listening to this they'll know when it's out yeah lovely I'll speak soon take care lovely thank you bye hi I'm Joanna and this is Stories from Behind the Mask the parts we edit out every week I'll be sitting down with entrepreneurs who've built businesses created legacies and dared to show up in the world and we talk about the stories they usually keep to themselves the doubts the wins the personal challenges the moments that changed everything this is about being seen unpolished and completely real so if you're ready for honesty and truth it's time to share today's story from behind the mask