Bonus: The psychology of parenting disputes with Dr Catherine Boland

In this episode of This Week in Family Law, we take you back to our inaugural Family Law Forum Conference, where we spoke with clinical psychologist and Director of The Relationspace, Dr Catherine Boland, to explore the psychology behind parenting disputes. Dr Boland shares her insights on high-conflict parenting matters, the impact of anxiety and overprotection on children, and what family lawyers can do to better support clients navigating separation. We also discuss the role of single experts, managing unrealistic client expectations, and the psychological challenges faced by professionals working in family law.



Chapters:
00:00 - Intro
00:47 - Interview with Dr Catherine Boland
11:25 - Conclusion



Disclaimer: This podcast is intended for general information and discussion purposes only. It does not constitute legal advice, and should not be relied on as such. The views expressed are general in nature and may not apply to your specific circumstances. You should seek independent legal advice before acting on any information discussed.



About the podcast:
This Week in Family Law is the go-to podcast for busy Australian family lawyers looking to stay updated without the overwhelm. Whether you’re a family lawyer in Australia, a practitioner working towards CPD, or simply interested in family law, this podcast delivers clear, practical insights in a bite-sized format. Subscribe to stay up to date with the latest developments in Australian family law. New episodes drop every Monday.



Topics discussed:
- The Psychology of Parenting Disputes
- Parenting Capacity and Child Development
- Safety vs Overprotection in Parenting Matters
- High-Conflict Family Law Cases
- The Re Andrews Principle
- Anxiety and Hyper vigilance in Parenting Disputes
- Managing Client Expectations
- The Role of Single Experts
- Challenging Unrealistic Client Narratives
- Human Behaviour in Family Law
- Psychological Wellbeing for Family Lawyers
- Preventing Burnout and Compassion Fatigue
- Finding Meaning in Family Law Practice



Links:
The learn more about The Relationspace, visit
https://www.therelationspace.com.au/



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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:09

Welcome to a special bonus episode of This Week in Family Law. My name is Eleanor Brzewska. I'm a family lawyer and legal content writer here at LEAP. This week, we're taking you back to an interview conducted with Dr. Catherine Boland at our inaugural Family Law Forum conference. Dr. Boland is a well-known name in family law. She's a clinical psychologist with extensive experience dealing with children, adults, navigating separation. Dr. Boland is also the director of the Relationspace. Let's get into it. Thank you so much, Catherine, for joining us today. And thank you for agreeing to be interviewed. No worries, it's lovely to be here. I wanted to ask you about your presentation today. And for those who didn't have the benefit of watching it in person, what was the presentation about and what do you hope family lawyers take from it?

SPEAKER_00 1:10

So I was on a panel with Justice Christie and Karen Shee of Counsel, and we were talking about cases where one parent has a fixed, unswayable belief that their child is in danger in the other parent's household, and it was based on the Ree Andrews principle. So the others were talking from a legal perspective, and obviously I was talking as a clinician. And I think they're complex cases, they're very difficult. And what I would want family lawyers to take from what I had to say is that the new amendments really focus on promoting safety. And as a clinician, that's really tricky because almost everything in parenting involves a degree of risk. And so I want lawyers to think about when they're with their clients, does this client have an appropriate parenting capacity to let their child experience some risk? And that might mean coping with time in the other parent's household, but it might mean having sleepovers with their friends or going to grandma's house or doing the normal healthy things of childhood. So really trying to use, I know you're not psychologist, but trying to use common sense about is this parent so anxious and so um hyper-vigilant and worried about what might happen that they overprotect their child to the extent that they can't experience the normal healthy things that make kids thrive. So sometimes your child will cry at swimming lessons, but it doesn't mean you don't take them to swimming lessons. You help them cope. So that's the kind of gist. That's the main thing I think that I would want family lawyers to take away from my presentation.

SPEAKER_01 3:03

Those are some really interesting points. I think the distinction between the present the presenters, as you said, there is that legal perspective and there's a clinician's perspective. And as someone who was in practice as a family lawyer, I imagine there'd be a lot of moments where you wish family lawyers did something differently to help you in your role and to perform your role as well as you can in what is a really difficult space. What do you wish family lawyers considered more in helping you do that?

SPEAKER_00 3:39

Quite a lot of things. So as a single expert, I think one of my frustrations, I suppose, with family lawyers is that sometimes they don't challenge their clients enough. You know, obviously, if I'm acting as a single expert, I'm seeing someone who is not settling their matter, who is pursuing uh a case. And sometimes I think has no one challenged this before? They've they've they've got really spurious or kind of quite fantastical ideas, I ideas about what's going to happen. And I I think I want the lawyers to take some responsibility here. So so often clients that I see if I'm writing a report have really fantasized ideas about what's going to happen in court, that the judge is going to see them, listen to their case, have this kind of benevolent view of all the things they've done wrong, and completely agree and see them as all good and the other parent as all bad. And sometimes I think your lawyer needs to have challenged you. You're not perfect, and the other parent isn't all evil. So mostly people are incompetently imperfect, but sometimes they're unsafe, and that's a special case. But in these cases we're talking about, I think I wish the lawyer had worked a bit harder to say sometimes things aren't perfect, but they're okay, they're good enough. So that that sort of I think I sometimes wish um lawyers did. And guess the other thing while I'm on the while I'm on it, is um, you know, sometimes lawyers, and I understand they're very challenging, difficult clients. We all work, we have that in common, but sometimes I think lawyers overcoach their clients for um both therapy and also for um report interviews, and people can't help being themselves. So I understand that you help a client write an affidavit or fill out a parenting questionnaire, but I'm gonna meet them and I'm gonna ask them a whole lot of questions, and they can't help being themselves. So if they're sort of overcoached by the lawyer, it actually doesn't help. So, sure, help them understand the process, but they've got to say things in their own words. And if there is a problem with their case or the way they're thinking, then it's your duty as a lawyer to show them the problems with that, why it won't succeed or why um it could be worse for them going down the um legal case route is what I would say.

SPEAKER_01 6:27

It's a really important point about authenticity because we do, we do in practice try to help our clients along with the best of intentions, but ultimately they are who they are, and as people with their flaws and strengths, they show themselves fully when they're interviewed by someone like you. And there's no amount of coaching that can make that go differently. I think I'm glad you spoke about the similarities between what we do. We touched on the differences, but I have to say there are a lot of similarities, and really it is about that client and client-facing element. It's an extremely difficult job that we have to do, and I wonder how you manage that feeling of overwhelm, overwhelm of information and overwhelm of client-facing duties.

SPEAKER_00 7:22

I mean, again, I could talk a lot about this because I've been in this industry for a really long time and I still love my job, so I think that's the first thing. Um I think that understanding always that we are seeing really damaged people at the worst time in their lives, and damaged people can be really damaging, they can get in your head, interrupt your sleep, change yourself as a person, change your own parenting and your own relationships. If you're around people who are really aggressive, angry, hurt, and you start thinking and behaving like them, then you'll wreck havoc in your own life. I've learned I learned that a long time ago. So I guess the first thing I would say is I always try to remind myself that work is work and that that is a really distorted world. I know this sounds really horrible because we're all human and we all have problems, but the people that we're all dealing with, and particularly the pointy end of family law, are really at a low point in their life, and I don't want that to be my template for how I'm going to be to my kids, to my partner, to the barista, to the people I, you know, love and in in society. Um, and so I do lots, I've learned lots and lots of ways to keep that in its own compartment and then to have joy in my life in other ways. And some of those are, you know, sort of just making sure I'm having fun, make sure that I do things that are outside the sort of law and clinical psychology. Um, I do a lot of sport, I do, you know, I just like reading for pleasure, which is weird because we have to do so much reading in our job. Um, just little rituals and routines I have to start the day and end the day that remind me that I'm a person outside of that. And then I'd say I have a lot of, you know, these are strategies I've learned as a um clinical psychologist. Like when my sleep, when I start dreaming about cases and it interrupts my sleep, I know that I've got to do something, like really take a break. Um, and if I'm sort of snappy or irritated around home, I'm I've got some pretty good self-awareness strategies I use to um calm myself down and go and take myself off and and do something. It's not perfect, obviously. Um, but I think we, you know, all of us, it's a it's a dangerous workplace psychologically. And I think if you're aware of that and you do things that manage that, it can also be an incredible privilege. So I all I still get excited when I get a new case because I think it's quite magnificent. We get to deal with really meaningful things, and I try in my work to just have a principle of, well, uh, with all due respect, I think psychology can bring so much to this. Um, I think I'm sometimes I'm the only person in the court that is really um talking about the principles of human behavior and psychology and trying to make a difference for kids. Not not resolve all the problems, but to try and use what I know professionally to make some difference. So I I I find meaning in that, and I think the day I stop getting excited like that, I'll do a different career. I don't know, something like that.

SPEAKER_01 10:55

Thank you for sharing that. I loved that you touched on professional elements, but you also shared a little bit about yourself, and I can also resonate with reading for fun versus reading for cases. It's totally different, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 11:08

Totally, totally. It's great. I love reading for fun. Always have. It's just a fantasy escape and a great thing to do.

SPEAKER_01 11:16

Thank you, Catherine. It's been such a pleasure and uh privilege to speak to you today. I hope you've enjoyed that interaction. We've loved being in your ease this week. Remember, if you'd like to get in touch by submitting your question or providing some feedback, we'd love to hear from you. Please get in touch by email at familylawpodcast at leap.com.au. You can also reach us on a number of socials such as TikTok, Instagram, and YouTube.