4: Richard Little and the Circus Circus

Welcome to Born to Bicker! Tell your peeps about our Circus Circus! 

This week, Griffin and Ellen go head-to-head in telling two unbelievable stories about clowns and everything that comes with the big top tent. One regarding the Hagenbeck-Wallace Circus Train-wreck and the other about the haunting Circus Circus hotel and casino. We swing into the dramatic details, but not before sharing some tales of our very own! 

Let us know who you think won this episode, what you guys think about the stories, and who should now be another step closer to being our mom's favorite! 

Our Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/borntobickerpod/

Email us at: borntobickerpod@gmail.com

Index:

00:00 -- Start

7:38 --  Hagenbeck-Wallace Circus Train-wreck (Ellen's Story)

25:30 -- John Mcafee (Griffin's Story)

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Alright.

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Um, what did I say my fucking anecdote was? Oh, that's it. Just Vegas.

SPEAKER_04 0:10

That's a good anecdote. I couldn't find I couldn't think of anything for circus for anecdote really. Yeah. What did I put? Oh, yeah, okay. Yeah, mine's super dumb. Um Alright. Uh hello and welcome to Born to Bicker, a sibling rivalry podcast where we share and some insane stories to help you get you to help you get you out of these. Uh I'm Ellen.

SPEAKER_00 0:35

And I'm Griffin.

SPEAKER_04 0:37

And we're siblings who like to argue. In this podcast, we'll talk about the weirdest circus stories we could find discovered on the internet, and some of our own bizarre stories built around the big top or not. At the end, whoever can come up with the strangest tale wins the episode, and more importantly, is one step closer to being the favorite.

SPEAKER_00 0:54

Which won't be that hard. Sure.

SPEAKER_04 0:56

And this is Born to Bigger. If you have one.

SPEAKER_00 1:35

You know, so much circus related shit is constantly happening to me that it was really hard to whittle this one down. You do seem like a circus. Right. Um not in it this time, but I did drive past the longest standing permanent circus in the US last weekend. Did a little Vegas trip. Well spur of the moment Vegas trip, you know.

SPEAKER_04 2:01

What's the longest standing circus?

SPEAKER_00 2:03

The Circus Circus Hotel and Casino.

SPEAKER_04 2:06

Is it the longest?

SPEAKER_00 2:07

Which is what I did my story about. Nice.

SPEAKER_04 2:10

Oh, that's cool. That's super cool.

SPEAKER_00 2:12

Yeah, it's been around since 1968. Yeah, it was too creepy, so we just drove straight past it, but uh we did some other shit, but that's my story. It is still open. Yeah. Um would but we'll learn a lot more about it in a sec.

SPEAKER_04 2:30

I'm so excited.

SPEAKER_00 2:31

And you guys gotta pardon me because I am sick for this episode, so powering through.

SPEAKER_04 2:37

Yeah, sorry also for the uh delay in podcast episodes. It's been a busy month and uh unfortunately a very sick one.

SPEAKER_00 2:45

Yeah, too much time in Vegas.

SPEAKER_04 2:48

So for my story, I don't have anything that's like super inherently circus related, but I did have this own story when I was like back in high school. One of my friends was working at a haunted house um in like the middle of Michigan, and we decided to go, and I think I was like a sophomore in high school at the time. Um, and I was like, Oh, it's gonna be like a kitschy little haunted house, like it's it's gonna be nothing or whatever. We show up and they're like, hey, you have to sign this waiver. I'm like, uh-oh, what does that mean? And they're like, Oh yeah, like people are allowed to touch you and like whatever in the haunted house. And I was like, Oh no, I don't know if I want to do this.

SPEAKER_00 3:28

But is this Erebus?

SPEAKER_04 3:29

No, okay, no, but we'd already like committed to going because we were like 45 minutes into like the middle of Michigan, and so we're like, okay, whatever. So I signed the thing and we're waiting in line, and then somebody mentions that it is in total the whole haunted house, it takes you 45 minutes to get through. And I was like, what? No, and then they were like, not only is it just the house, but then there's a maze and then the woods. And I was like, the house is just 45 minutes to get through, and then there's three other things. You get what you paid for, so yeah, we were like going through the house. Um, the circus comes in because the maze was like this creepy ass circus-themed maze where the like performers were above you, and then all of a sudden you just heard like a chainsaw, and you were like running through the maze like a little like rat trying to get away from the guy with the chainsaw, and it was so funny. Claire and I were so panicked that uh the performers were like, the thing is this way, you just gotta go this way because we couldn't we couldn't find our way out, it was so stupid. Um, but yeah, safe to say I do not do very well with hollow houses, but I think they're super fun.

SPEAKER_00 4:45

Do you do do well with circuses?

SPEAKER_04 4:47

Um circuses weird me out a little bit too. I I will say I'm not like anti-circus. Like I would go. I think the only thing that freaks me out about a circus is like I always feel bad for the animals. Every single time.

SPEAKER_00 5:01

Yeah, fair.

SPEAKER_04 5:02

I'm like, I don't know, I don't think they still have them.

SPEAKER_00 5:04

Sometimes they don't anymore, but I was gonna say uh that one circus that just almost seemed to come around seasonally when we lived in the valley. Oh yeah, the whatever. Well, yeah, it would be like it's Halloween, so it's the paranormal circus. And it's like it's barely spooky. I don't know if that's the word you want to use, but you know, then the Christmas comes around and then it's the Christmas circus. Right. Fucking Easter comes around, it's the Easter circus. I don't know, they just changed their costumes. But I don't remember any animal.

SPEAKER_04 5:37

No, they didn't have anywhere.

SPEAKER_00 5:39

Was there a petting zoo maybe? I don't know. I don't know. I don't remember.

SPEAKER_04 5:43

But the yeah, the freak show thing was so funny because it was like, yeah, just super tame and like there was no freaks.

SPEAKER_00 5:51

It was the vanilla show.

SPEAKER_04 5:52

People doing acrobatic stuff and everybody's like, ooh. Yeah, but there was, yeah, there's no like scary element to it.

SPEAKER_00 5:57

Uh definitely some ooze and ahs though.

SPEAKER_04 5:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:00

I'll go back.

SPEAKER_04 6:00

Well, one guy like fell, I think. That wasn't even part of the performance. Like, he slipped and everybody.

SPEAKER_00 6:06

No, he definitely did. Yeah. Everyone said, uh, is this part of the show? Like, turn the lights off for a second.

SPEAKER_04 6:12

Yeah. When I was researching stories for this week's, um, one of the ones that I didn't do was a guy who was like a lion tamer or whatever, and he repeatedly got like attacked by this lion. Never ended up dying from any of them, but he just kept on going back and doing it. Um, but one of the things was like, oh yeah, he got attacked, and everybody would thought it was part of the act until he started bleeding out, and then everybody was like, oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 6:36

Holy shit. I know that we I know that we're like turning the wheel for the next one at the end of this, but mine safari one is very lion related.

SPEAKER_04 6:48

Mine is also super lion related. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 6:50

I'm curious if you know if you know this the story already. But I mean this one this one's gonna be cool, but I'm like feel better about my other story.

SPEAKER_04 6:59

But that's funny because I think I'm the opposite.

SPEAKER_00 7:02

Okay. Well that's good then. That's good.

SPEAKER_04 7:04

Oh yeah, for to see who goes first. Do you want to do some rock, paper, scissors?

SPEAKER_00 7:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 7:10

Alright.

SPEAKER_00 7:11

Wait. I know we've done it a few times. We're doing shoot or no shoot.

SPEAKER_04 7:15

I think we're doing shoot.

SPEAKER_00 7:16

We're shoot household and shoot.

SPEAKER_04 7:17

Yeah, because if you don't do shoot, then it's like when are you gonna you can't throw. You don't know when to throw.

SPEAKER_00 7:21

No, I need the end. Right. Alright.

SPEAKER_04 7:23

Rock, paper, scissors, shoot. I think that's my fourth time in a row getting first. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:30

I guess you can you can defer if you want, but.

SPEAKER_04 7:33

I'm not gonna defer.

SPEAKER_00 7:35

Yeah, do it.

Hagenbeck-Wallace Train-wreck

SPEAKER_04 7:38

Alright, so my story this week is the Hagenbeck Wallace circus train wreck.

SPEAKER_00 7:44

Hagendawaz.

SPEAKER_04 7:45

Hagendaz. Every time I went to type this in, I would always type it in incorrectly because I wanted it to be something other than Hagen Hagenbeck, but it's Hagenbeck.

SPEAKER_00 7:54

So Hagenbeck Wallace.

SPEAKER_04 7:57

Hagenbeck-Wallace. Alright, this was a massive chaotic event that took place in the early morning hours of June 22nd, 1918. The Hagenbeck-Wallace Circus was one of the largest touring circuses at the time. They had around 250 employees, from acrobats to lion tamers, clowns, and equestrians. They had hundreds of animals and two separate trains that had 28 cars each. The circus at the time was estimated to be worth around a million dollars, or what would average to $21.6 million today. They were the third largest circus at the time and considered the Midwest version of P.T. Barnum's East Coast show. However, traveling by train came with its own risks. Railroad accidents of the era were common and deadly. In 1892, when the circus was simply the Great Wallace show, a railroad wreck resulted in 26 train horses being killed. A second in 1903 occurred when the train didn't slow down on its approach into the yard and slammed into the train ahead of it, killing 26 men and several animals. Writes Richard Little in the Great Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 9:08

You're telling me this guy's name is Dick Little.

SPEAKER_04 9:13

Richard Little Writes Richard Little in The Great Circus Train Wreck of 1918.

SPEAKER_00 9:20

Hey, at least he can be immortalized in the Born to Bicker podcast. Shout out to Dick Little.

SPEAKER_04 9:24

Shout out to Dick Little. But nothing would compare to the chaos that was about to unfold for the Hoganbeck Wallace Brigade. The company had just completed two large performances in Michigan City, Indiana, and was traveling 45 miles to their next stop in Hammond. The first train arrived without a hitch, carrying the workers and many of the animals. The second started to have issues while en route. The train had to stop and fix an issue with one of their axles that had started to overheat on a flat car, which in train terminology is called a hotbox.

SPEAKER_00 9:55

Shut up. Is that the origin of that?

SPEAKER_04 9:59

I don't know. That'd be I mean, maybe.

SPEAKER_00 10:02

We need to look into this.

SPEAKER_04 10:03

I can see that.

SPEAKER_00 10:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:04

If unnoticed or not fixed, hotboxes can create fires, axle failures, and and or derailment.

SPEAKER_00 10:11

It's gonna derail you, I'm telling you.

SPEAKER_04 10:13

Don't scramble your brain. So cars were being moved to another track in order to fix the issues, but some of the cars, including four sleeping cars, were still on the main line track. The train employees, trying to fix the issue, laid out signals and lanterns to warn any incoming trains of their sudden stop, but it would prove pointless. Around 4 a.m., an engineer named Alonzo Sargent was at the throttle of the Michigan Central Troop train that was headed empty towards Chicago. This train was utilized to carry troops for deployment to the war front in Europe. And while he was aware that he was closely following behind the slower circus train, he started to feel the effects of having been awake for 24 hours by now, having had several heavy meals, and taking kidney pills.

SPEAKER_00 11:01

What is a kidney pill?

SPEAKER_04 11:03

No idea. But I would assume it would make you drowsy. I I think that's what they're getting at.

SPEAKER_00 11:08

Yeah, this dude's just crushing burgers and popping pills at the wheel of a train.

SPEAKER_04 11:13

Yeah. Between all of those events and the slow pull of the locomotive, Sergeant fell asleep at the wheel.

SPEAKER_00 11:20

Thank you for your service.

SPEAKER_04 11:22

He missed two automatic warning signs, the signals that the previous train had left along the way, and finally, a poor flagman waving lanterns in an attempt to get him to stop. Without slowing down, the train plowed into the caboose of the circus car.

SPEAKER_00 11:41

Boss.

SPEAKER_04 11:45

Without slowing down, the train plowed into the caboose of the circus car at 35 miles per hour. The steel frame of the sergeant's car smashed into the all wood coach. According to the contemporary newspaper report, the engine and the tender of the moving train passed completely through and over the wreck. The engine left the rails but did not overturn upon impact. The circus's train lamps ignited the wooden cars and a fire quickly spread. Cars were crushed and sandwiched together. People sleeping in bunks had flung through the walls of their cars. The sound of the collision was so loud that nearby farmers had gotten out of bed to investigate the chaos. Henry Miller, the assistant light manager at the time, was asleep in his bunk when he was thrown from the wreckage. Suffering minor injuries, he said, I was the last in the coach next to the caboose, and I was asleep when we were hit. He told the Chicago Daily Tribune a day after the accident. I woke to the sound of splintering wood, then there was another crash, and another, and another. The train buckled on itself. It parted in the center, as clean as though it had been sliced with a giant knife. How many people killed in the initial wreckage was hard to say. Within minutes the entire train started to go up in flames. When the train had collided, it caused several circus lanterns to ignite and cause all the wood cars to go up like torches. Survivors clawed their way out of it, called for help before the fire engulfed them. Acrobat Eugene Enos chopped.

SPEAKER_00 13:18

Eugene Enos. It sounds like a prank caller name, like like Seymour Butts or some shit. Eugene Enos.

SPEAKER_04 13:35

Acrobat Eugene Enos. Trapped beneath some wood beams, received aid from his wife, Mary, and Longmore, a clown.

SPEAKER_00 13:46

Nah, he's not even a clown for the circuits, he's just a clown. This dude is just a fucking clown, man.

SPEAKER_02 13:52

Can you imagine? Like, you're you're at your, you know, end of your rope.

SPEAKER_00 13:56

This is a tragedy.

SPEAKER_04 13:57

You're at the end of your rope, and a clown comes up and goes, pulls you from the wreckage. You'd probably be like, I'm dead.

SPEAKER_00 14:04

He's like, grab my handkerchief. And he's like feeding out like a hundred.

SPEAKER_03 14:09

Quit fucking around, man. He's like, grab my nose.

SPEAKER_00 14:17

Squirts water out. Well, maybe they could put out the flames, I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 14:23

Uh we pulled him clear just as the flames lifted him. Mary later told the Chicago Daily Tribune.

SPEAKER_02 14:33

Man, I'm like still laughing.

SPEAKER_00 14:37

This is like I this is an ins this would be an insane sight in general to just walk up across. You're like, oh my god, it's a tragedy. And then it's like you're trying not to laugh because there's just clowns everywhere like being goofy and shit.

SPEAKER_04 14:51

Well and then there's just like elephants and shit too. Like this must be wild, especially back in like 1918.

SPEAKER_00 14:56

Yeah, what happened to all the animals?

SPEAKER_04 14:58

I have no idea. Well they might have been separated because they said that like basically it was two cars or two trains.

SPEAKER_01 15:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:07

And the first one got to the stop okay, and then the second one was still headed to the destination, and then from that second one, they were able to divert some of the cars, and then some of the cars were still on the track. So I don't know if like the animals were in the first one or in like the first set of cars or something. But I'm like, you get the animals out first and not like sleeping cars.

SPEAKER_00 15:29

Like if I get squished by an elephant or something going a you know. I don't know how fast they're going. Probably really fast for the time. 35 miles an hour.

SPEAKER_04 15:38

Yeah, I was gonna say 40 miles an hour. Fast enough.

SPEAKER_00 15:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:44

The fire, however, spread so quickly that it was becoming impossible to get people out. Two men stationed at the Ivan Hoe signal tower, about 100 feet from the event, called as many people as they possibly could to come help the situation. One included the mayor of Gary, Indiana, who then brought the fire chief and the medical personnel, all the medical personnel that he could. Triage for the victims began at the Michigan City Central Station in Hammond and were later transported to St. Margaret's Hospital. Although the Gary and Hammond fire departments arrived as quickly as possible, the only source of water were nearby shallow marshes.

SPEAKER_00 16:19

A wrecking crane was also brought to the ancient The only source of water was shallow marshes.

SPEAKER_01 16:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:30

Or drain in the swamp.

SPEAKER_01 16:31

Drain in the swamp.

SPEAKER_00 16:34

Right, we're gonna drain the swamp.

SPEAKER_04 16:36

A wrecking crane was also brought to the accident site to dig people out, but couldn't initially be used because the heat from the fire was too intense. The Daily Gate City and Constitution Democrat, an Iowa newspaper, wrote later that day the task of identifying the dead and seriously injured was almost hopeless. Not only were many of the bodies burned so badly that recognition was impossible, but practically everyone on the train was killed or hurt. Among the dead were some of the circus' fame performers, such as Animal Trainer Nillie Jewell, dubbed the girl without fear, Jeannie Ward Todd, an aerialist and member of the Flying Wards, Bearback Rider Louise Louise Cotrell. Cottrell Bearback Rider Louise Cottrell and Wild West writer Verna Connor, Strongman brothers Arthur and Joseph Derricks, and the wife and two young sons of Chief Clown Joseph Codell.

SPEAKER_00 17:38

After the chief. I didn't even know that existed. You gotta go to the clown school for that one. You gotta get your master's in clown school in clown. Clown allergy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 17:55

Eighty-six had died, and over 127 others were injured by the impact. Many others were people who had been recently hired, and their names were never recorded for employment. Five days later, fifty-three of those deceased were buried in Woodlawn Cemetery, and a section set aside as the showman's rest. The section was surrounded by elephants that repose as if they were in mourning. Only five of those buried had been formally identified. The rest were too badly burned to recognize. Three of those are Smiley, Baldy, and Four Horse Driver.

SPEAKER_00 18:32

You can't laugh.

SPEAKER_04 18:33

It's terrible.

SPEAKER_00 18:34

That's fucked up.

SPEAKER_04 18:35

Um I'm like, who's four-horse driver? Why did they like why was that his nickname? You know, like they couldn't come up with his name, and they're like, oh, that was the four-horse driver.

SPEAKER_00 18:44

I feel like Baldy is pissed. He's like, this guy gets to be small smiley. Four-horse driver, whatever. I'm Baldy. For life.

SPEAKER_04 18:53

Well, not for life, but when the coffins arrived, more than 1,500 people showed up to give their respects. And while an investigation went underway about how exactly a tragedy of this scale could happen, the show continued on. Missing only two performances, the circus continued on its way with loaned animals, equipment, and performers from the Ringling brothers and Barnum. The classic mentality for the circus was felt that the show must go on.

SPEAKER_00 19:23

Isn't that where that phrase comes from? Like the PT Barnum thing? Or no?

SPEAKER_04 19:29

The show must go on?

SPEAKER_00 19:32

Yeah. Isn't it? No, maybe not. No, I think it is. I feel like it is.

SPEAKER_01 19:38

Did he say that?

SPEAKER_00 19:39

I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 19:40

He was kind of ass, right?

SPEAKER_00 19:42

Barnum or Bailey?

SPEAKER_01 19:43

Barnum.

SPEAKER_00 19:44

Which one? Who do you side with? Barnum or Bailey?

SPEAKER_04 19:50

Why were they all brothers?

SPEAKER_00 19:52

Are they brothers?

SPEAKER_04 19:53

Ringling brothers? Barnum and Bailey.

SPEAKER_00 19:56

Are I don't even know if the ring are the ring the ringlings must be brothers, right?

SPEAKER_04 20:02

They're called the three brothers.

SPEAKER_00 20:02

I don't know if that's just like a show thing. Yeah, we're brothers.

SPEAKER_04 20:07

I have no idea, actually.

SPEAKER_00 20:08

Look at our freaks. Um, but that is sad. I do wonder about the well, I'm sure you'll talk about it. But I wonder about the conscience of the man who was, you know, crushing burgers and popping pills at the wheel.

SPEAKER_04 20:29

He'll talk about it a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 20:30

Hope his kidneys are right. Pay to be press for it.

SPEAKER_04 20:34

In the aftermath of the accident, the families of the deceased performers struggled with who to blame. The railway company, the engineer driving the empty train, a man named Alonzo Sargent, who was arrested and charged with manslaughter, or the company circuits itself. All these seem to shirk any blame. One spokesperson for the Interstate Commerce Commission even released a statement to the Chicago Daily Tribune saying, We do everything we can to discourage the use of wooden cars on passenger trains and urge the substitution of steel ones. That is all we can do.

SPEAKER_00 21:09

Yeah. I mean, do you even have to not to not to derail the conversation? But do you even have to really steer a train anymore? Or can you just like it's kinda on its thing and like there's somebody there to stop it if like something's on the tracks that it doesn't detect or whatever, but like you don't have to like slow down slow it down into a turn anymore, do you?

SPEAKER_04 21:35

I think you have to slow it down for like um cities.

SPEAKER_00 21:40

Okay. That makes sense.

SPEAKER_04 21:43

Yeah. So I think they must do like a little bit of driving.

SPEAKER_00 21:46

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's like on a computer, kinda. I feel like it'd be a pretty easy job. Shout out to the train drivers out there. I don't know what I'm talking about, obviously.

SPEAKER_04 22:01

I feel like it'd be better than like a flight attendant job. Or like a pilot job. Oh, I don't know. Being a pilot would be pretty nice, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 22:10

Yeah, I think there's they're just paying you to land the plane or whatever they say. Yeah. You know, you're not on autopilot for most of it.

SPEAKER_04 22:16

Yeah. The ICC held an investigation where they found Sergeant and his fireman, Gustav Klaus, criminally guilty for the incident. But the jury found themselves at a deadlock, and ultimately it was ruled a mistrial never to be picked up again. In a statement from Sergeant Directly, he said that the wreck happened around 4.05 a.m., June 22nd, and I stayed there for an hour hour or more assisting in getting people out of the wreckage. I have been in the service of the Michigan Central Railroad Company for approximately 28 or 29 years, the last sixteen of which I have been continuously employed as an engineer. I'm in perfect physical condition as well as mental condition and have no illnesses within 25 or 30 years requiring the service of a doctor. There was nothing defective about the air brakes or other mechanisms in the train that I was operating, nor was there any defective condition of the signals or track upon which I was operating to the best of my knowledge. The accident was due solely to the fact that I accidentally fell asleep and I had no intent to injure any person, nor was the same done with malice, but solely through an accident, as I for said.

SPEAKER_00 23:27

Fucking sucks. I don't really know what to say.

SPEAKER_04 23:30

That was pretty terrible. Yeah. Well, and he I can't remember if I put this in or not. I might have missed it. But he oh yeah, he was awake for like 24 hours straight. And part of me thinks that like because of the time period and whatever, it was a lot of people. It's a company's fault at that point.

SPEAKER_00 23:46

It just gotta be awake for 24 hours, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:49

Right. Um, so it was a terrible accident, but one that was not necessarily uncommon given the time period that it was in. Sargent fell asleep from from being overworked at a company that he had been with for decades. And in 1918, I'm not sure that it could have been prevented or more avoidable.

SPEAKER_00 24:07

You could call it a freak accident. Uh I'm on a roll today.

SPEAKER_04 24:15

The conditions are, of course, much better now, and the story lives in infamy for people still involved in the circus culture. And even still, every year, clowns and circus performers still gather at the showman's rest to honor the victims with a ceremony during National Clown Week.

SPEAKER_00 24:32

What? National Clown Week.

SPEAKER_04 24:34

Which I'm sure you're always invited to, but My people.

SPEAKER_00 24:38

Yeah. No, I always uh I always pour one out for the uh Hagenbeck Wallace circus train wreck.

SPEAKER_04 24:46

We gotta start doing it June 22nd.

SPEAKER_00 24:48

Shout out. I'm actually gonna calendar that and I'm gonna bring it up. By by then you you're gonna have forgotten about this and I'm gonna remind you.

SPEAKER_04 24:56

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:57

Keeping the victims of the Hagenbeck Wallace circus train wreck still in their minds for more than a hundred years after the horrific tragedy.

SPEAKER_00 25:06

Shout out to Smiley, Baldy, and the four-horse driver. Driver. The four-horse driver.

SPEAKER_04 25:15

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:16

God rest their souls.

SPEAKER_04 25:18

But yeah, so that's my that's my circus themed uh story. I feel like there were so many to pick from, but this one was like crazy.

SPEAKER_00 25:29

Yeah. I I feel like I

Circus Circus

SPEAKER_00 25:31

was just stuck on the on the Vegas thing because I just drove past it while I was writing this writing this ep. Epp.

SPEAKER_04 25:40

You were inspired.

SPEAKER_00 25:42

Yeah, so I guess it's really less of just a straight up story and more of a um more of a a portrait of a of a creepy but well, some argue creepy, but cool place. Um I feel like like we've been to it as kids.

SPEAKER_04 26:06

Did we?

SPEAKER_00 26:06

I'm almost positive.

SPEAKER_04 26:08

Okay. But we didn't stay there.

SPEAKER_00 26:10

I was talking to mom about this, um, and she was like, yeah, you've been there. You've been to Circus Circus. Because we were talking about Fear and Loathing.

SPEAKER_01 26:18

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 26:18

They have a scene. Well, they have that scene in it where they're like on the spinning bar and shit.

SPEAKER_04 26:24

Um Does that still exist?

SPEAKER_00 26:26

But it's not the Circus Circus in the movie, apparently, because they did not allow them to film there. Um I mean, I'll get into it a little bit, but they're trying to keep this like family atmosphere in it, which is like so ironic to me, because I think it's like a little weird, a little creepy, a little skeezy. Yes, but there's like an arcade portion and stuff, like on the upper floor. I'll get into it more, but like yeah. I mean, like overall, basically, it was one of the first casinos that wasn't built with mob money. It was this guy that went around the mob and got like corporate financing, and he's like, I'm gonna specifically target middle class America and like families to try to bring them in. Cause he didn't want to be owned by the mob, and he wanted like there's more money in that too than just people that want to like go full hedonism, you know. But uh all that being said, so Circus Circus has always had a strange reputation on the strip. Uh part carnival, part casino, part relic of an older, stranger era of Las Vegas. It opened on October 18th, 1968, built by casino developer Jay Sarno, uh, the same man who already changed the strip by opening Caesar's Palace two years earlier. But with Circus Circus, Sarno tried something completely different. Instead of another glamorous casino filled with celebrity shows, he wanted to create a place that felt like a literal circus. The casino floor was designed to resemble a giant big top with carnival style colors, clown imagery, shout out to the chief clown, uh, and trapeze rigs hanging above the gaming floor. Gamblers could sit at blackjack tables while acrobats swung through the air overhead. Whoa, really?

SPEAKER_03 28:22

That's so cool.

SPEAKER_00 28:23

Which they apparently do not do anymore. I should have done more boots on the ground research on this, but I don't think they do that anymore, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_04 28:32

I mean, it kind of makes sense. It's really strange.

SPEAKER_00 28:34

I mean, it's cool, but it's like what if you I would be a fan of bringing it back. You know, they could strap a man. I don't know how they did it. Yeah. In the early days, the spectacle was even stranger. At one point, the casino used a baby elephant as a publicity stunt, walking it through the casino where it would pull slot machine handles with his trunk. Yeah, they took all of his winnings away.

SPEAKER_03 28:56

As they all always did.

SPEAKER_00 28:58

Bastards. But at first the casino opened without a hotel, which quickly became a problem, obviously. Um gamblers could play, but they had nowhere to stay. The first hotel tower wasn't added until 1972, when a 15-story tower opened with 409 rooms. Uh, additionals following in 75 and 86, uh, and today it's huge. The resort has grown to more than 3,700 hotel rooms, and there's over a hundred thousand square feet of casino space. But it was a strange period in Vegas history. Uh in the 60s and early 70s, many casinos in Vegas were still influenced by organized crime. So mob figures were known to skim profits from the casinos before they reported to regulators, quietly diverting money back to crime families. Circus Circus struggled initially uh financially because they wouldn't take any mob money. Sarno was trying to do it with just straight up corporate financing for the first time, and eventually came under the control of casino executives William Bennett and William Pennington, who helped stabilize the property and build the company's Circus Circus Enterprises.

SPEAKER_03 30:10

The Bills.

SPEAKER_00 30:11

The Bills bringing their bills, flaunting their bills around. Under the leadership, the resort expanded dramatically. What? Yep, five-acre indoor amusement park, uh, beneath a massive pink glass dome containing roller coasters, carnival rides, and arcade games.

SPEAKER_02 30:31

Whoa. I've never heard of that.

SPEAKER_00 30:34

I mean, it looks huge from the outside. But even with all this, it never quite lost its reputation as uh a chaotic environment. Behind the main casino are even more uh motel-style buildings called the Manor, where rooms are accessed from outdoor walkways, something almost unheard of for a casino on the strip today. The unusual layout helped fuel the rumors that the property might be haunted.

SPEAKER_04 31:02

Oh, it's like the um Winchester House.

SPEAKER_00 31:06

Right. Just confusing the ghosts or whatever, keeping them trapped. Um, but many of the ghost stories come from employees working overnight shifts, security guards, maintenance workers, etc. Um, some say they've heard footsteps in the hallways. Others claim they've seen shadowy figures moving near the upper levels of the casino where trappieze rigs and aerial platforms are installed. But part of the eerie atmosphere might just come from the building itself. Uh Circus Circus is one of the oldest properties still operating on the strip. So certain sections can feel strangely quiet late night when the crowds thin out. Um, the most famous legend is connected to the hotel room 123. According to the story, a woman staying in that room once killed her young son before taking her own life. Yeah. Guests claim that lights turn on in the middle of the night, footsteps echo across the room, and people have said weird messages appear on the bathroom mirrors. Which I'm all I'm always like, do they just want something haunted to happen to them at this place? Oh, for sure. You know.

SPEAKER_03 32:14

Because it's already spooky, and they're like, oh well, you know.

SPEAKER_00 32:17

Oh, I was haunted too. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, good Zach Begin's in there.

SPEAKER_03 32:23

Didn't he go to Circus Circus?

SPEAKER_00 32:24

He must have. He's been to every haunted place.

SPEAKER_03 32:26

I think they went at at some point. We should have went to some episode.

SPEAKER_00 32:30

We should have gone to his museum. It's out there.

SPEAKER_03 32:33

I really do want to go to the dream.

SPEAKER_00 32:34

Dream come true.

SPEAKER_04 32:35

A little nervous though, I'm not gonna lie.

SPEAKER_00 32:37

You think you're gonna get haunted?

SPEAKER_04 32:38

Well, some of it's like freaky as fuck.

SPEAKER_00 32:40

Like they have like they have like the Annabelle doll OG, Annabelle doll or whatever.

SPEAKER_04 32:45

Yeah, and they have the um cauldron from uh that one serial killer. Um, which one is that? Edgane.

SPEAKER_00 32:54

I don't even know about the the cauldron thing.

SPEAKER_04 32:56

I think it's Edgane, but like he used it to boil like the skin off of bones and stuff that he so he could use bones to like create furniture.

SPEAKER_00 33:06

Okay. It's fucked up.

SPEAKER_02 33:08

Yeah, it's really fucked up.

SPEAKER_00 33:10

Um yeah, so n there's never been any reliable evidence, um, and people think that that story might even be an urban legend. Uh-uh.

SPEAKER_02 33:26

I mean it's good if it's an urban legend, I guess, but it's also like Room 123, a little convenient, maybe. It is a little convenient.

SPEAKER_00 33:33

Yeah. You know, I'll be a skeptic. I'm open though. I'm open though. Yeah. I'm open to a ghost.

SPEAKER_04 33:39

We can spend the night in Circus Circus and see if anything comes through.

SPEAKER_00 33:43

That might actually be the move. That'd be kind of cool. That's our next Vegas trip. Circus Circus also appears in another persistent rumor involving serial killer Charles Ng and his accomplice, Leonard Lake. I looked that up because I see this last name all the time and I have never known how to pronounce it. I thought it was like Nye or something, but no, it's just Ng, apparently.

SPEAKER_04 34:04

Did he create his own last name?

SPEAKER_00 34:06

No, this is a this is like a common name.

SPEAKER_04 34:10

Interesting. Never heard of it.

SPEAKER_00 34:12

Um so Ng and Lake committed a series of murders in California during the mid-80s. Uh some accounts claim Ng traveled through Las Vegas and may have visited many casinos like Circus Circus while passing through. Um no confirmed evidence tying specific crimes to the property, but the story has circulated among Vegas locals for years and became part of the casino's darker folklore. I think they ended up pinning like 24 victims to him or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 34:39

Damn.

SPEAKER_00 34:40

He's not a super famous like serial killer, but he's low key. He's gonna blow up. He's coming up. No, but he's still uh he's still around.

SPEAKER_03 34:50

What?

SPEAKER_00 34:51

Yeah, I think he's like he was young when this happened, so I think he's like late 60s maybe. But in 2018 though, so not that long ago, um maybe we shouldn't stay there. It became the site of a tragic double homicide involving two Vietnamese tourists staying at the hotel.

SPEAKER_01 35:06

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 35:07

Um The victims were visiting Las Vegas as part of a tour group traveling from California traveling in California. Um and one of them owned a travel company in Ho Chi Minh, and the other worked for her helping organize tours. Um on June 1st, 2018, they sh failed to show up to a scheduled group tour uh of the Grand Canyon. And certain members of the tour group asked hotel staff to check on their room. When security entered the room, they discovered both victims had been stabbed to death. Uh investigators later determined the suspect had likely entered the room during a door push robbery, a tactic where someone walks through hotel hallways checking door handles for unlocked rooms. Terrifying.

SPEAKER_01 35:57

Terrifying.

SPEAKER_00 35:58

Uh police arrested Julius Trotter later in California. Um, a couple days later in California, after a car chase, uh he was found with much of the victim's belongings, cash, and personal items. Uh years of court proceedings later, they convicted him of murder last year, uh, of murder, robbery, and burglary, and was sentenced to life in prison without parole.

SPEAKER_01 36:24

Damn.

SPEAKER_00 36:24

Um, so events like that, combined with decades of rumor, legend, and strange stories, have helped cement Circus Circus's reputation as one of the darkest corners of the strip. Um today the property is owned by good old Phil Ruffin, who bought it from MGM uh five years ago for 825 million. You gotta see this guy. Uh he's 90 years old and he's married to a 44-year-old woman. He got married in 08, so you can do the math on that one. He also owns Treasure Island and is now worth $4.4 billion.

SPEAKER_02 37:02

Oh my god, who is this guy?

SPEAKER_00 37:04

He's a very interesting man. Um, despite being one of the oldest casinos still operating in Vegas, Circus Circus continues to attract millions of visitors each year. Families visiting the adventure dome, gamblers looking for old school Vegas, and curious tourists drawn by its unusual reputation. A chaotic decades-old carnival sitting under the neon lights of the Vegas Strip, where entertainment, crime, and urban legend have all become part of the same strange show.

SPEAKER_04 37:35

Well, I definitely don't want to stay in Circus Circus.

SPEAKER_00 37:38

I'll give it a shot. I'll give it a shot.

SPEAKER_04 37:41

You gotta stay in room 123, though. I bet they get so many like requests to stay in that room in particular.

SPEAKER_00 37:47

I'm not scared of this. I mean, I don't believe this. There's not enough concrete evidence for that room for me to know.

SPEAKER_04 37:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:54

I can see it being haunted though.

SPEAKER_04 37:56

It is crazy to me that like some of the only true deaths there were like the women in 2019.

SPEAKER_00 38:02

Yeah. That we know about.

SPEAKER_04 38:04

Yeah, yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_00 38:06

I don't know. I think people just want stuff to be haunted.

SPEAKER_04 38:09

Yeah, well, and especially a place that's like all creepy clowns and stuff like that. Yeah, of course. Alright, yeah. So in the last episode, we rolled back to back just to try to get it, because we knew we were gonna like double record because we knew it was gonna be a sec, because uh this guy's been traveling a lot over here.

SPEAKER_00 38:31

I know.

SPEAKER_04 38:32

But that being said, we rolled, and our next uh episode, which we're gonna record like immediately after this, is um safari themed. So we prepared some stories for that. If you're interested, you should hop on over to the the next episode and uh give us a shout out on whatever social media in the comments were there and talk about you know your circus themed stories and your crazy stuff that you want to share with us. If you've ever stayed at Circus Circus, like yeah, did we miss anything?

SPEAKER_00 39:02

Yeah, let me know.

SPEAKER_04 39:03

Probably did, yeah. Yeah, I missed a lot. Um and yeah, let us know who you think won this episode and who you think is gonna win the next episode. Or if you've listened to that one already, then tell us, you know, what you who you think we won that episode as well.

SPEAKER_00 39:21

So I think it's pretty clear on this one.

SPEAKER_04 39:24

Yeah. Yeah. I think so too.

SPEAKER_00 39:30

Yeah. Um I s I've I was halfway through my story and I was like, you know, I'm just starting to sound like a tour guide a little bit.

SPEAKER_04 39:38

I think it's sick. I'd take that tour.

SPEAKER_00 39:41

Okay. Well, you can, you know, just gonna ask you a quick question.

SPEAKER_04 39:46

Uh yeah, so you know, tell us about your insane circus-related things. I'm sure there's probably not very many. I feel like it's such a niche topic, but like, there's gotta be something out there.

SPEAKER_00 40:01

You'd be surprised everybody's got a clown in their family.

SPEAKER_04 40:03

Yeah. Oh yeah. I know who ours is.

SPEAKER_00 40:08

Yep, at least I'm the clown in chief. Yeah, that's what it was.

SPEAKER_04 40:14

Um, and send us your stories at uh born to bigger pod at gmail.com. That's B-O-R-N-T-O B-I-C-K E R P O D at Gmail.com.

SPEAKER_00 40:24

Or spell it however you want. We don't care.

SPEAKER_04 40:27

We don't care. Uh and follow us on Instagram where we're the same spelling. Uh we're also like wherever you can find us on podcasts. So Spotify, Apple Music, or um Apple Podcasts, I should say. We'd love to hear from you. And let us know who you think won the episode. Also, if you guys send stuff in, we'll start like reading it out, reading it off on the pod and like talking about it. So I think that would be kind of fun. Um so send send us some stuff.

SPEAKER_00 40:56

And I'd love to work some suggestions in there.

SPEAKER_04 40:59

Yeah. Uh thank you guys for listening and tune in to the next episode. And yeah, thank you guys.

SPEAKER_00 41:09

Dick Little.

SPEAKER_04 41:12

Richard. Thanks.