Jason Carroll - Resumes Are Garbage: Why Behavioral Fit Is the Future of Hiring

What if your retention problem isn’t happening after employees join but before they even start?

In this episode of the People/AI Strategy Forum, Sam Reeve speaks with Jason Carroll, Founder of Optiv Index, about why traditional hiring methods are failing and how AI-driven behavioral intelligence is reshaping how organizations identify, engage, and retain top talent.

Resumes have long been the foundation of hiring decisions. But in today’s environment, they’ve become an unreliable signal of performance, potential, and long-term fit. As AI accelerates hiring processes, leaders are being forced to rethink how they evaluate talent beyond skills and experience alone.

Jason shares how behavioral data, combined with AI, can help organizations understand how people think, work, and collaborate — creating better alignment between individuals, roles, and teams.

If you’re seeing high turnover, misalignment, or hiring decisions that don’t translate into performance, this conversation offers a new way to approach talent strategy.

In this episode we discuss:

• Why resumes are no longer a reliable predictor of performance
• How poor hiring decisions drive the majority of employee turnover
• The concept of “right people, right seats” and why it matters
• How behavioral assessments reveal how people think, decide, and collaborate
• The role of AI in coaching leaders and improving team dynamics
• Why behavioral intelligence extends beyond hiring into leadership and culture
• How to use AI responsibly without replacing human judgment
• The importance of maintaining the human element in an AI-driven workplace

Key takeaway

Retention is not just a compensation issue.

It’s a hiring and alignment issue.

When organizations better understand how people operate, not just what they’ve done, they create stronger teams, better leadership, and more sustainable performance.

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About the People/AI Strategy Forum
The People/AI Strategy Forum explores how leaders navigate the intersection of people strategy, leadership, and artificial intelligence. Hosted by Sam Reeve, Founder & CEO of CompTeam, the Forum features conversations with executives, practitioners, and experts shaping the future of work.

Learn more about CompTeam and the People/AI Strategy Forum at compteam.net.

Transcript

Sam 0:00

If your retention problem starts before day one in 2026, top performers aren't leaving because of pay. They're leaving because they were mishired in the first place. So welcome to the People Strategy Forum where we challenge outdated people, practices, and replace them with what actually works. I'm Sam Reeve, your host, and CEO of Comp team, where we help organizations design people-centered total reward systems. That attract, retain, and motivate top performers. Today's topic is resumes are garbage. Why AI driven behavioral fit is now the key to retaining your top performers and our guest today? The very special guest today, Jason Carroll. Founder of Optiv Index, Jason has spent years helping organizations move beyond static resumes and gut feel hiring towards behavioral intelligence, using AI to understand how people work, collaborate, decide, and adapt. So if you're tired of hiring great resumes only to get regretted attrition, conversation will reframe how you think about talent. uh, grow up to a, a new system that's going to really take charge and, and, uh, work with, uh, some of the latest technologies. So let's welcome Jason Carroll. Welcome, Jason.

Jason P. Carroll 1:25

Thanks for having me. Thanks for having me.

Sam 1:27

Yes. And so as we, uh, I, I know that this is, uh, uh, you know, like a lot of software platforms over the, the past few years. Uh, there's, they're just popping up everywhere because of the, the, um, AI is really taking hold. And so can you tell us a little bit about how you got into this space and what you're trying to solve?

Jason P. Carroll 1:51

Well, it, it all started from me experiencing the same problems that you all, all of your listeners are. Uh, uh, I've been in the seat in my last gig, uh, I scaled a company from 20 million to 80, and then we sold, and then in that kind of scaling. Every single business problem was a people problem. Uh, and, you know, just putting the wrong people in the wrong seats, not knowing how to lead and motivate, not even understanding my own, uh, shortcomings. And, and like, so I, in my own journey of self-awareness and understanding others better, uh, I discovered psychometrics and there's all this idea of objectively measuring. Motivator traits, drivers needs, uh, of, of humans, uh, the, the ones that actually can predict, uh, certain outcomes. And, uh, so I was, I was actually, you know, in that role I was a client of multiple psychometric platforms and was more than mildly obsessed, uh,'cause just so many light bulbs went off for me and it changed the game. And so post exit, uh, I wanted to be in this world and lucky for me, it's a very stale world that's in the stone Age and had a lot of opportunity for being disrupted.

Sam 3:05

And, and Jason, this, your, your, your tool is more than just about hiring, right? I mean, this is, this is really getting to know your people at a deeper level. Is that true?

Jason P. Carroll 3:15

It, it is, you know, h hiring is the clearest. Easiest ROI to to realize, right? Because we all know how much a bad hire cost. Um, and, and, and really, I, I originally built the tool to be a hiring tool. Uh, it, it's surprised me more than anybody to see that now it's about 30% of what our clients use it for. Um, they're, they've expanded how they utilize this platform because of the way the AI plays into it, to, to like. Make a strategic use out of the behavioral assessment data. Um, you know, it's not just being used once and then collecting dust. Uh, it's your clients are using it every day.

Sam 3:56

Yeah, so we're, we're gonna dive into the different ways that you can use, uh, the, the information. But it's true. The, you know, hiring is, is the big problem for a lot of organizations. I mean, I think it was Harvard Business Review found that 80% of employee turnover is due to bad hiring decisions. And if you think that, if that's happening in your organization, I mean, you know, that turnover is, is super expensive. And I know that, uh, there's a lot of different types of, uh, statistics, uh, depending on the, the, uh, level of the person. But turnover can cost quite a mo, uh, a lot. When you, uh, in your experience, Jason, I mean, how do you, how do you see turnover rates change with these, these types of psychometric tools?

Jason P. Carroll 4:43

Yeah, I mean, it goes down significantly. I mean, every book we read, every, you know, operating system, whether it's like, you know, p os, pinnacle, EOS, things like that. Like, you know, the businesses that are familiar with those, they all talk about right people, right seats. Uh, we know how paramount that is. And when you have the right person doing the right things in the right role, they just don't turn over, right. Um, you know, because, because now all you have to do is stick to your values and pay'em well. Uh, but you know when it's the wrong person in the wrong seat. There's this, there's too many misfires. You know, you, you've got people butting heads, people stretching and, and, and burning out way too quickly. Mistakes being made and you know, we've all seen it dozens of times.

Sam 5:33

Yes. And so, uh, these psychometric tool tools can really help us understand what our people, uh, what makes our people tick basically. And, and, uh, are, are you, how are you seeing businesses use this beyond hiring? What, what are the different areas where they're using, uh, the psychometrics to, to really enhance the workforce?

Jason P. Carroll 5:55

Uh, gosh, I mean, let me count the waves. Uh, you know, I know you and I chatted before we hit record and, and some of those. Things come to mind. Uh, you know, we've, we've got sports teams using this like division one and, uh, even people that, you know, were in the WNBA that were coaches, coaches for the NBA, you know, so. Skills only get you so far. You know, even in sports where performance is everything, there's that mental and emotional game that fortitude, resilience. How do you bounce back if you airball it or you know, whatever else. Uh, and, and understanding pe, people's motivating needs and how they respond to, you know, adversity helps you better motivate, coach, engage, uh, and, and all that. So that's one major way. Uh, and I'm, I mean, I'm talking about sports, but. That applies everywhere, right? We, we have people that, you know, they get down on themselves more than we get down on them when they screw up. Well, how do we get that person to bounce back? How do we get them reengaged? Um, or they screwed up and they don't even know it. How do we tell them that? In a way that is constructive. Uh, actually, I, I was just out in the hallway here in my office. It's a big coworking space and so, but I have hall mates that have actually become clients. And this guy with Nick was just telling me, um, that he had to have a, a define the relationship moment with one of his, uh, a leadership team members. And he is like, the first thing I thought of was to go and look at the behavioral data and talk to Aria. Aria is our, our ai. Um. Conflict re resolution is a big one. So, uh, you know, uh, uh, a guy here also in Austin, he's, uh, who's a CEO and a client of ours, he's like, I had two people fighting on the team and I tried everything I knew and nothing would work. I was like, oh, yeah, I should ask Aria. Uh,'cause Aria has all their behavioral data and she recommended, she gave like a, you know, a guide and just said, follow this. Step one through five. And he did. And he is like, I, it felt like a magic wand wa waved over them. Like, I, I don't even understand how it knew exactly how to get these two people out of their, that, that kind of conflict cycle that they were in. Um, team building is a big obvious one. Uh, and then. The ones, the clients who know that they can use it creatively are using it to improve their marriages and, uh, dating life. Uh, I've got a couple actually. Um, uh, the husband and wife both swear that Aria saved their marriage. I mean, not mincing words, like not, you know, that's not what I built the spring for at all, but heck yeah, man. Like, I love hearing these stories, uh, day in and day out. It's awesome.

Sam 8:40

great. I mean, it, I mean, it, it, I I think that's a, that's a, it's a true test of a, a new tool when an innovator like yourself, uh, builds something and it's like, suddenly it's like, well, geez, this is, it has a lot of different app applications I didn't think about before. You know, we were just looking at this, this one set, but now it's, it can do this. So that's, uh, that can

Jason P. Carroll 9:01

Yeah.

Sam 9:01

for sure. So I'm, uh,

Jason P. Carroll 9:03

Yep.

Sam 9:04

uh, you've, you've made those discoveries. So as you, uh, think about, uh, you know, aria is the, the AI that you, uh, developed in your tool and you're finding that it's, uh, people are working with Aria to, to assist with, you know, just, uh, team dynamics, uh, and teaming overall. Uh, and really finding out what people are really passionate about, and you can, uh, is it true that, is there any, is there any context? Well, I, I imagine there's some context with that, of course, that would not be appropriate to ask Aria and then, and she would probably respond back saying, Hey, well, that's not, is, that's a guardrail, is that, is that right?

Jason P. Carroll 9:45

Yeah, it, it's tough to make ai, uh. Have those guardrails. I mean, like if you use chat GBT, it's going to please the user. You know what I mean? Like if I'm like, oh, I'm politically left or right, and here's my opinion, back it up, of course it's going to. Right. Um, and, and I just, yesterday I was having this demo and, and I, I got asked the exact same question by a potential client. And so as I, I was in this chat and I, I pulled up my and my wife's, um. Uh, assessment results and said, aria, gimme just a quick romantic cheat sheet. And, and it talked about our difference in emotion. And I said to Aria something along the lines of like, you know, help me point out, you know, how. You know, messy it is, or how wrong she is when she gets all emotional like this and it put like a big red stop sign emoji and like heading one font and said, hold up Jason. This is a massive blind spot and this is about you, not her. And I, it like the prospect was like, send me the contract, you know. It was so cool I to build, to have, be able to build those guardrails and I look, people are gonna figure out how to manipulate it. That's just human nature and it's AI's limitation. Uh, but we have built quite a few of those, uh, potential scenarios and to try and prevent manipulation.

Sam 11:04

Yeah, and I, sure, I'm sure you'll find out new ones as they come along, but, but when we

Jason P. Carroll 11:08

Yeah.

Sam 11:09

those, uh uh, When organizations are thinking about I implementing an AI tool that really knows your people, that can understand their behaviors like you, you're having, uh, like you're mentioning, and also help the leaders, uh, find ways to, to better connect with these, uh, their people. what are the, the watch outs that, uh, that you found that, that you should, you know, that people should, or leaders should be concerned about?

Jason P. Carroll 11:40

I, I think it's just always remembering it's one leg of the stool, you know? I mean, you, you mentioned, you know, the, the podcast, uh, title like re resumes or garbage. Um. Yeah, unfortunately resumes are still part of, that's one leg of the stool, you know, what, what skills and experience do these people bring? Um, and then we try to find out everything else, you know, like what's their emotional intelligence, what's their, you know, how much of a culture fit are they? And then this behavioral assessment data is another leg of the stool. Uh, and, and to be clear, to also to clarify, like the assessment is not founded on or scored by AI at all. So the AI is like a coach that comes in after and has been trained on all that assessment data. Um, you know, so we don't have to worry about AI hallucinations on that piece. But even still, like, is my assessment perfect? Of course not, uh, you know, do, do people figure out how to game it sometimes. And so, and even if it's perfectly accurate, and there are some, you know, behavioral misalignments from what we might deem as the ideal target. For a certain role or position I, does that not mean that, or does that mean that somebody can't still be successful? No, of course they still can be. Um, and so not abusing something like this, even just completely separate from the ai, uh, humans are still humans. Uh, and we're complex and we're, you know, neuroplasticity is a thing and we're very capable and we can stretch and flex outside of our own hard wiring in really profound ways. Um, so we don't want to use it to discriminate in any form or fashion.

Sam 13:22

Yeah, I imagine there's, there's times where, and you, you have to, uh, well, you know, like for instance, a lot of organizations are saying that we need to have a human in the loop in these particular areas, uh, to, to ensure that, uh, you know, we don't want maybe people to. For AI to make the hiring decision, right, or to say who should get a promotion, things like this.

Jason P. Carroll 13:45

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Sam 13:46

So is there's, there's certain aspects where you have to be, uh, in, in, in the training that you provide leaders on, on the tool. are these aspects covered?

Jason P. Carroll 13:59

Yeah, for sure. Um, you know, the, we also have, you know, the policies that people have to agree to and, you know, some of the, some of the things that protect us and our clients in case they have employees that go off the rails. Um, but yeah, and the good thing is so far. We haven't seen anybody misusing it. We haven't seen anybody, you know, implementing their own nefarious uh, motives. Uh, you know, so, um, hopefully we don't have to worry about it a whole lot, and when it does happen, we can catch it and, uh, remediate it.

Sam 14:32

What about certain locations? Are there certain, um, uh, areas in the world where the, these tools aren't, it's, there's just regulation against it or they're, they're not ready for this type of solution?

Jason P. Carroll 14:45

I haven't seen that yet. I mean, we already have a, a client in Guernsey Islands, which is like one of those, um, what do they call those islands right outside of the UK where, I mean, if you think the EU has. Strict, uh, restrictions and policies. You know, Guernsey Islands takes that to the next level, and yet they're using it. Um, I mean, heck, they're, they, it's been used in their parliament of all things. So, um, yeah, I mean, pretty, people are pretty open to it because it's not making the decision. It's just information. Uh, it's objective information, which is helpful. Uh, but there's no right or wrong. There's no good or bad. You can't pass or fail the assessment itself. Uh, and so you know, it, it really, if bias is introduced as a result, it's because the human using it is bias to begin with. Not because the tool or the assessment data did anything that was biased.

Sam 15:44

Okay. So what, what about, uh, you know, the, um, does the tool take in consideration and gender and ethnicity, things like this? Mm-hmm.

Jason P. Carroll 15:57

so as you're taking it, we have no idea, what your age, gender, ethnicity is. Uh, but during the validation studies that we did, we were collecting that data. You know, we had paid participants and, and if we, you know, did six validation rounds, because one of the things that you have to prove, uh, to be EEOC compliant here in the states to, uh, for pre-hire, you have to prove that there aren't biases, right? And so we did that. You can look at the data, uh, tables and see that there's no correlation on any of our eight attributes, uh, around. Any of those, uh, protected classes, you know, somebody's eth ethnicity or age, or you can't look at a result and have any idea, uh, if, if it's a man or a woman or, uh, how old they are or anything like that.

Sam 16:45

Okay. Uh, and so, so you mentioned eight attributes. I mean, what, what are those attributes?

Jason P. Carroll 16:52

Uh, we have four that we would call conative, C-O-N-A-T-I-V-E. It's, uh, I promise it's not a made up word, but it's not one we use very often. Uh, and, uh, it, those are are very much like kind of our hard wiring traits, like our core. Needs that haven't, don't really change, they might shift a little over time. Um, th those are the ones that we primarily use for, like, role fit. Um, like for example, if you looked at my profile, you would know there's just no amount of money in the world you could pay me to be your accountant. I, I like, I would be terrible at it and I would hate it. Uh, you know, and so we can see that instantaneously looking at somebody's results. Uh, but then there are four additional dimensions that look at, uh, people's emotional world, their cognitive styles, uh, and like decision making, uh, processes. And so we call those just standalone attributes, uh, and they give us a, a whole lot more nuance. Than what you'd see out of typical frameworks, like a, a big five or a disc or anything like that.

Sam 17:59

Yes. And I, I think that brings up another piece there is, as far as the cognitive style, mean, there's a, a lot of, um, um, uh, in, in the world today. I mean, and,

Jason P. Carroll 18:12

Yep.

Sam 18:12

matter of fact, there's a lot of, of, uh, uncapped talent. There where we have, uh, people that, uh, know, maybe have ADD or dyslexic or, you know, a variety of, uh, of different, they're on the spectrum, for instance. And, and maybe they're, they're not be able to get, get hired. Will this te this tool help kind of get through or cut through that, uh, that noise?

Jason P. Carroll 18:37

Yes. And I love that that's true. Like these, you know, when you're looking at a chart of these dots left or right, uh, you know, of, you know, low or high or whatever it is. Like, there's still no correlation with, um, neurodiversity, you know, uh, uh, you know, like, man, my son is on the spectrum. I've got ADHD to the max, and there's just no way you can tell looking at the results. And, uh, in fact, if we could tell that would actually be a legal liability. So, um, and interestingly enough. Validation round one, we, one of the attributes we were measuring actually was pointing to that a little bit. It was what we called social intuition and, and combined with another one, we're like, oh, this is dangerous, and we took it out. Um, but yeah, I mean, there are, there are stories of, of this tool being used to find hidden talent where, you know, no matter what your, you know, neuro. Divergence is no matter what your socioeconomics are, uh, you know the chart is the chart and it's gonna match somebody who's, you know, a neurotypical, billionaire, you know, and like, so, hey, this person has potential for this. Initiative, this project, this role, uh, you know, the, this company at the stage that we're in, you know, whatever it might be. And then we get to find that hidden potential and have those conversations, which also further allows, not, not just to like avoid the bias, but also to expand our search beyond somebody who already has the skills and experience. Um, because even when somebody does come in with a certain set of skills, they have to relearn those skills in our organizations. Way of doing things anyway. Um, and, and so I, I need this particular, now I'm not talking about like a, you know, brain surgeon, like a brain surgeon. Better have that skill. That's, that's not what, that's not what we're playing. Uh, but uh, yeah, most roles can learn the skills necessary in a short amount of time if they're wired for that role.

Sam 20:39

So what about, um, can a tool like this be used to really pair up, uh, the best employee with the, with the, uh, with a particular. Uh, ID or client, for instance. So let's say in, in a sales situation, and, you know, maybe, you know, you notice that the, the sales, uh, the, uh, the prospect has these type of behavioral traits and, and is it, uh, can you use your tool to kind of pair up the best sales person or the best account manager, for instance?

Jason P. Carroll 21:13

Yeah, the, the caveat, the trick is that you have to get your client or prospect to take the assessment. Uh, and that's not always easy, but you know, we have, for example, uh, CPA firms and PR firms, brand agencies, that it's a pretty easy ask. Hey, take this 10, maybe 12 minute assessment and that's gonna help us know who to pair you with. It's gonna help us capture your voice, you know,'cause we're a brand agency or whatever. Um, and, and then yeah, it's, it becomes that human cheat sheet, uh, for them to interact with, pair up internally. Uh, a hundred percent. Now, you know, if you're selling widgets. I, I don't know how you would get your prospect to take an assessment, so, you know, that'd be a little trickier. Uh, but hey, if you can figure it out, you, it's, uh, kind of an unfair advantage.

Sam 22:01

Mm-hmm. Right. Now we begin, we began the conversation with talking about, you know, how resumes are, are garbage, they're outta date. It's a, it's a still a tool that is being used and, and so forth. But, but how does system, does your system work in coordination with, with those types of assets? Or are, uh, is it separate and completely.

Jason P. Carroll 22:26

So, uh, the, the whole resume thing, I mean, we've known that resumes. Have been broken for a long, long time. That's why ATS is out there, scan through and try to filter out and everything like that. And that's, that's been bad for decades. Uh, not to mention, I mean, I think it was that you mentioned Harvard. Harvard Business Review, and I think it was either them or Gallup, uh, did a, an official study showing like 74% of people admit to lying on their resume.

Sam 22:54

Yeah.

Jason P. Carroll 22:55

Which is outrageous, right? Um, you know, and, and so that whole system has been broken for a while and it has been amplified by ai, I mean chat, GPT wrote just about every resume that makes it an indoor inbox these days. So how in the world do we trust that and make decisions off of it? It, it's completely broken. Um, and, and so really, I, I. Our tool has no way of importing a resume, uh, unless usually, I mean, you can upload a file, but it doesn't store it on anybody's record because we just don't care. Um, we, if we need to API tie into your enterprise a TS or hr. Okay, we can do that, uh, and send some data, but really it's a standalone tool that it doesn't, we just don't care about the resume.

Sam 23:43

Okay. So as, uh, uh, you know, I, I know that, um, your, your tool has been pressure tested with a lot of companies. Have you found a, uh, a best way for this tool to be adopted into the organization?

Jason P. Carroll 24:00

It depends on the size. Um, you know, a lot. I'm part of some like CEO networks and, and we're, we're growing like wildfire in those arenas where you're talking, you have 20 to a hundred employees, uh, because like that's that entrepreneurial. Spirit and people are more forward thinking. They're willing to do something innovative and like that they haven't done before. And with those organizations it's pretty easy. I mean, we just, we do the typical onboarding and training. We invite as many people as it makes sense to get an understanding of the science and the tool. Uh, and then just. You know, hit go, you know, and they, and they kind of have free reign to, to explore, use the AI and creative ways and all that. Uh, with larger organizations, we do, uh, a little more systematic approach where it's like, you know, we'll do, okay, here's our ELT, we're gonna start with the executives, do some executive sessions.'cause sometimes there's some shuffling around that needs to happen. Then we go to HR and we say, all right, here's how we're gonna use this for hiring. So it's just, it's a lot more segmented. Uh, and then we'll do a company wide workshop where we go, alright, we're not gonna dive into these eight attributes. That's way over people's heads. Uh, so we have some other tools. Uh, we actually have like these animal archetypes, you know, it's like, so in Insights Discovery is a really cool assessment competitor, I guess, out there. They do colors, you know, I'm a yellow, I'm a green, a blue, red, whatever it might be. Uh, so our, our version of that with four is just animals. And they all mean something. And of course it's high level, right? It's not, it doesn't have much nuance, but it's common language, which is really helpful. Like, oh my gosh, you're such a dolphin. You know? And like people just know what that means, uh, after a workshop and it becomes really helpful culture, language,

Sam 25:36

that sounds great. It sounds like a lot of fun. For sure.

Jason P. Carroll 25:40

it's.

Sam 25:41

All right. Well, well, Jason, as we're, we're kind of, uh, coming to a close in our conversation, is there certain things that you would want, uh, our, our leaders to be thinking about as we come into 2026 and, um, using AI and, and tools like this in their practice?

Jason P. Carroll 26:00

Yeah, I mean, completely separate from, you know, e even an interest in using a product like Optiv Index. I would say that as we. Dive more into ai. This sounds maybe a stretch at first, but I think the mindset that leaders need to have is curiosity about people, because the more we lean on these data tools. For writing emails or, you know, coaching employees or having strategy sessions or whatever. The more we're disconnecting from the human element, the more we use AI for our own uses. Like, oh, I have this political opinion, or, you know, I want to dis, I want to all those things. Pull us away from the human element and into our own little bubble. And, and so I think just remaining curious about other people's perspectives and experiences, you know, really implementing empathy, you know, perspective taking. I think it's just paramount right now. We, we have to keep the human element at the forefront.

Sam 27:14

Agreed. So Jason, if, a leader out there wants to learn more about Optiv and, and Aria, how Aria can be, somebody that helped them, what's the best way for them to learn more?

Jason P. Carroll 27:27

Uh, I mean, you know, the website, uh, aptiveindex.com. Uh, if you wanna track me down, go for it. Uh, there's a million Jason Carrolls, but Jason P. Carroll. Uh, if you throw that in there, you'll find me pretty easily. Uh, LinkedIn, it's the, you know, do linkedin.com/in/ Jason P. Carroll. Um, you know, connect with me there. Send me a dm, uh, and we can chat.

Sam 27:47

Great. right. For everybody listening in, I mean, today we, it was an easy case to make, but uh, resumes definitely are a weak proxy for performance and retention, behavioral fit, that kind of stuff, and, and, and we just need to up the game. It's time, it's been broken for a long time. As Jason mentioned, it's time to do what's right for our people and for all those candidates out there that need to be treated fairly. And there's ways to use AI wisely and effectively, and with the proper guardrails and a tool like this, it's, uh, it's a game changer. So Jason, thank you truly for challenging, uh, uh, the, uh, audience on this topic and, uh, and, really informing us on how artificial intelligence can be a true asset in, uh, in understanding people and having leaders understand their people better. Thank you.

Jason P. Carroll 28:42

Yeah, you're welcome. Thanks for having me on.

Sam 28:44

And for our listeners, if this episode helped, please subscribe, rate, and share with a colleague, uh, that you have. And, and please ask yourself one question this week, uh, what behavior actually predicts success in a given role? and that might be tough to, to find out and, and on your own, but a tool like this, uh, aria can, can help you sort that out. So. We'll see you next week on the People Strategy Forum. Thank you everyone. Take care.