Leadership Operating Systems: Turning AI Strategy into Execution with Betsy Kauffman

Leadership Operating Systems: Turning AI Strategy into Execution with Betsy Kauffman

AI is transforming every industry, but technology is not what determines success.

Leadership is.

In this episode of the People Strategy Forum, Sam Reeve sits down with Betsy Kauffman, Founder & CEO of Cross Impact and author of The Fix, to explore why executive alignment has become the defining competitive advantage in the age of AI.

While many organizations focus on implementing new technologies, Betsy argues that the greatest obstacle to AI adoption is not the technology itself. It is leadership teams that lack shared priorities, clear decision-making, effective communication, and disciplined execution. As AI accelerates the pace of business, these leadership gaps become increasingly costly. 

Together, Sam and Betsy discuss the Leadership Operating System, a practical framework for helping executive teams align around strategy, improve collaboration, strengthen accountability, and execute with confidence during periods of rapid change.

In this episode, you'll learn:

•  Why AI initiatives fail when leadership teams lack alignment 
•  The Leadership Operating System every executive team needs 
•  How to improve executive decision-making and accountability 
•  Why healthy conflict creates stronger leadership teams 
•  Practical approaches to AI governance and responsible adoption 
•  How to avoid "shiny object syndrome" during rapid technological change 
•  The first steps leaders can take to strengthen alignment and execution over the next 90 days 

Whether you're a CEO, CHRO, HR executive, or business leader, this conversation provides practical insights for leading organizational change, navigating AI transformation, and building leadership teams that consistently turn strategy into results.

About Betsy Kauffman

Betsy Kauffman is the Founder & CEO of Cross Impact, where she helps executive teams improve leadership alignment, organizational effectiveness, and strategic execution. She is also the author of The Fix, a business fable that demonstrates why organizations achieve better results by strengthening their systems rather than simply focusing on individual performance. 

If you enjoyed this episode, follow the People/AI Strategy Forum on your preferred podcast platform and join the conversation! 

About the People/AI Strategy Forum
The People/AI Strategy Forum explores how leaders navigate the intersection of people strategy, leadership, and artificial intelligence. Hosted by Sam Reeve, Founder & CEO of CompTeam, the Forum features conversations with executives, practitioners, and experts shaping the future of work.

Learn more about CompTeam and the People/AI Strategy Forum at compteam.net.

Transcript

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So AI is moving fast. But in many organizations, the technology is moving a whole lot faster than the leadership team, and that's where execution breaks down, not because the company lacks ideas, not because the technology is weak, but it's because leaders are responsible for carrying out the change. They're still operating with assumptions and priorities of the past. And when that happens, AI doesn't become An advantage. It becomes a magnifier of misalignment. So welcome to the People Strategy Forum. I'm Sam Reeve, your host and CEO of CompTeam, and this show Is for founders, executives, senior HR leaders who want practical ways to attract, retain, and motivate Their best people in their organization, especially during these times Of change. And today's topic is about the leadership operating system, how executive teams turn AI strategy into execution, and my guest today is Betsy Kaufman. Betsy is the founder and CEO of Cross Impact, and she has spent the first part of her career leading large-scale technology transformations across healthcare, finance, insurance, and technology. But again and again, Betsy has found that the real issue is not technology itself. It's the leadership team behind it. It's the misalignment, the politics, the delayed decisions, the strategy that looks good on paper, but it... actually breaks down in execution. So Betsy helps organizations solve this problem. But what's, led Betsy to, focus on building what she calls The leadership operating system is really centering around a strategy around shared behaviors, decision frameworks, and an executional rhythm that turns a group of talented executives into a team that actually operates as one. So let's welcome Betsy to the show, thank you for joining us. Hi, Sam. Thanks for having me. Thanks for the great intro. I really appreciate it. For sure. so Betsy, I would just... just to start things off, I know that you have experience in helping, leaders do their best work, but where did it all begin? What gave you the passion to work with leadership as you do today? Yeah. So I actually just tell people that I think it found me. I wasn't really looking for it. as part of the introduction, I did Fall into technology project management and program management and, doing large scale ex- execution and implementation. And as I was continuing my journey and my career, I would be brought in to do execution type work, and then I would have leaders actually tap me on the shoulder and say, "Hey, can you actually... the execution is great. Can you come over here and help us? Can you Help us come together and talk about the big things? You're really good at naming the elephants in the room and bringing up the sticky topics in a way that does not feel threatening or confrontational, but are things that we have to address." And so it just kept happening over and over again, where I would get tapped by a leader to say, "Actually, come over here. Come spend time with us. Come work with me. Come work with my team. Let's help to get alignment and get conversation going and the things that we aren't bringing up as a leadership team or as a cross, functional group of leaders." And so I would say over the past... I started my company back in 2014, and we can talk a little bit about that. But I would say over the past, 10-ish years, that's really where it morphed into, is sitting with the leaders, helping the leadership team, helping individual leaders, and just trying to bring these different disparate groups Of folks together, to learn how to operate as one. Yeah, very important. if it's fragmented or if you have, people that are not aligned, then it definitely, detracts. I think that there's a place for, disruption, In a situation- To bring in new ideas, But at a certain point, once we've done our brainstorming, we need alignment, right? We need to march- Correct go forward and execute. you talk about The leadership operating system. leaders hearing this for the first time, What do you mean by it? Yeah. So it really is the shared norms, behaviors, ways of working, communication, languages, frameworks, decision-making bodies. it's going in and seeing where are we possibly not coming together, and how do we actually build a system in which we can all operate in? And so whether it be we need to get onto a quarterly cadence and do strategic planning, and as part of that we need to talk about how do we make decisions as a team, how do we actually disagree, and how do we come together At the end of the day, how do we align on things? a project means this for one person and this for another person. How do we get a common set of vocabulary? And so it's not so much a formula that, A, B, C, one, two, three. It's really about how do we start to look at our group of people as a system, and then what pieces and parts do we need to put together to make the system work better together? And a lot of that can be me saying, "Okay. Wow, we're not able to have healthy conflict." If I walk in a room and everybody's just super kind and, doesn't wanna talk about the tough stuff, then I know we need to actually spend some p- time on that part of the system. okay, let's really talk about some of these rough things, and let's be comfortable and make sure we have a safe environment to bring up these topics, and that at the end of the day, we're still gonna walk out aligned as a group of folks that needs to continue To march to the beat of where we're going with the company. And it's not... There, there are so many facets to a system, that it can be a lot of different things. and trying to get that group of folks to figure out how to operate together is really the core of it. Okay. i-in your experience, there's people that are i- they're too nice in, in a situation. but in, in your experience, what are the common themes that you typically see, when you come into a leadership team? the issues that need to be resolved? Yeah. Sometimes it's lack of decision-making. Sometimes it's lack of focus. we are, we're f- we're chasing shiny objects, right? It could be that we have complete misalignmen- on who's supposed to be working on what. We might have, some folks doing one thing and somebody else in another area doing the same thing. there's different pieces to it depending on, I, I see a lot of decision-making struggling. I see a lot of lack of communication, a lot of lack of having the tough conversations, are the typical things. And whether that be the culture or we have new folks involved, it really is thinking about okay, how do we make sure just because you hire these really talented individuals- and that's what we see a lot they were hired because they have this background or this experience, and they were hired because they have this background and this experience. at some point you have to actually bring them all together and get them working together. And so it's taking the part... how do you take each of these really amazing rock stars that you've hired and bring them together to form that team? And we see it in sports all the time, right? we end up drafting all these great superstars, but at the end of the day, they've gotta figure out how to meld into the team and what skills and s- and resources that we can bring to the table to make the team actually operate better together as one. Yes. And so those are just some of the things that we see. I've been doing this for, like I said, 10 years. I've been in this, Working in corporate for 20-plus years. And so there's just a lot of different kind of use cases and scenarios that we have to bring up. I would say another one is getting... I work a lot on the technology side, but how do we get business and technology to actually work together and to have a good set of common language so that We build a partnership as opposed to it feels like we're Fighting with each other and trying to figure out, "Okay, I need this, and I want that, and I'm demand, and you're supply," and how do we actually say, "Okay, how do we work together?" lots of different dynamics. I'm sure you've seen it in your work as well, there's so many different things depending on what that culture brings for that company and for those leaders. Yeah, so let's, let's focus on the topic of technology because one thing right now is that all those things that you mentioned as far as communication, team fit, everything like that is still very important and is part of the main theme. But technology and AI is kind of pressure testing everything. It's putting everything In a tight, timeline all the time. So how is that, what do leaders need to know about navigating This tech crunch And really staying competitive In this ever-increasing fast-paced era? Yeah. Well, here's the thing I think with AI, and this might be what's been different in the past with all of our different tech crunches. AI really is now everybody's focus. It's no longer a technology problem. It needs to actually be a company and a corporate, problem to solve for and how are we going to apply it. that's maybe the big shift that we're starting to see is that we need to make AI be front and center for everyone. So the CEO should really care about it, the CFO, the COO, CHRO, And downstreams. when we were doing stuff, and I'm gonna age myself And I kind of just started entering the workforce when like the internet broke, right? Yeah. and it was a big thing and we were Afraid of it and what was gonna happen with it, but then technology took it and started owning it and the same thing as we went to the digital transformation space and we saw all that happen. AI is very different. AI could completely transform the workforce and if we as a team, a leadership team, don't get behind it and figure out our strategy, I am really worried about the companies and what could potentially happen to them. it's a lot bigger, larger impact, with data governance. There's so many tools out there. Are we allowing our people to use all these different tools? Are they actually using them on their phones? And they're taking our data and uploading it out to the world And trying to crunch and get through it. So, I do think it, It's... What's different about AI compared to the internet or digital or all the things that we... You know, I have an app for that, those types of things, is it now needs to become everybody's business and everybody needs to figure out what is our strategy and how do we as a team come together on it and agree to it and where do we go? Like, where do we, where do we solve for it? AI is, people are fearful of AI because they're

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of

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what's gonna happen to their, to their jobs. And, I think AI can do things to help improve processes, but it n- will never, hopefully, replace humans 100%, right? So we want humans to bring really critical thinking and bring a lens of, let me look at that, let me understand the data, let me make sure it's, like, the right way of doing things. And then how do I leverage AI as a tool to help with the processes? And so I think, As a leadership team, first getting alignment, if that's our stance of what we're using AI for and what is AI, how is AI gonna support us, and you guys are safe, or you're not safe, right? We are looking to replace this. And being very forthcoming with, with kind of where is our intent and our strategy of where we're trying to go with leveraging AI

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AI

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Yeah, so s- definitely a lot in there. There's a lot. First getting a alignment On what does AI mean for Our industry, our company, and our people, and our customers. All of that- Needs to be framed in there. And then a- as we mentioned before, doing that, brainstorming process and coming to an alignment of how we're going to move forward. And then of course there's, the skill gap, right? so once we decide that we are gonna move forward, I often find that leaders are amongst the, A certain group of people that often feel like they, they know it. They've lived it through Their experience, and then they know it. But in this- In this world today, Nobody really knows. I mean, things are being- Right written, and, we need to learn new ways of doing things all the time. So how do you break-

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Yeah

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the old habits? Yeah. You know, I, I think it's, it's getting folks comfortable to, to say, "I don't know." Mm.

video2808375475 10:53

E- especially

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as leaders, "I actually don't know how to use this tooling," or, "I'm not quite sure what we're looking to accomplish with it." And then giving them sandboxes to play in and to experiment, and allow, allowing their team also to see what else is out there, what can it do for us? And so not being afraid of it and not being afraid to fail at it. I've got, I had a couple leaders post in some of our forums, "I'm being told that I need to push AI. I don't even know what that means. I don't know what I'm supposed to be doing with it. I don't know..." To your point, They're leaders because they've gotten to a certain point in their career and they, they bring some sort of either subject matter expertise or they're great people leaders or both. But now they're saying, "Okay, now take this new technology and figure out how to use it and tell your folks to use it," and they don't even know. So I think really trying to get folks comfortable with, Use it. Here is the toolings. Here's your sandbox that you live in. don't be afraid to put it out there, and don't be afraid that it's gonna replace you or your team, because what we're trying to do is figure out the best way to use the tools to help us as a company to get to decision-making faster or processes faster or whatever. where I see leaders struggling or, or the habits is, Not wanting to try and being afraid to fail and not knowing all the answers, and sometimes That's uncomfortable. And so I would say be vulnerable. You might have champions in your team that are actually better at AI that can say, "Okay, I'm gonna put you as the champion. Teach me and let..." You know, a good leader actually is very humble and vulnerable and say, "I'm not using the tooling," or, "I am using the tooling and this is what's amazing. What else can you find out there?" So it's a whole brave new world that I think, We're venturing into. And yeah, I mean, I use certain tools, but then I've got, you know, peers that are highly more technical than me, and they're using all this other different tooling, And I'm like, "I have no idea what you just said." Yeah. I'm gonna actually have to put what you just said in my AI tool to decipher it. Yes. And I think it's okay to say that, right? I think it's okay to say, "I don't know. There's just so much out there and I need to start to learn, and where's the best place to learn, and How do I keep up with, with what, where we're trying to go as a company?" And then one thing You kind of mentioned before is, avoiding the shiny object syndrome. Yes. And so in here there's plenty of shiny objects, and it changes on a daily basis. oh, but Claude can do this, and- Right

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Can

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do, can do that.

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Yeah, it's like- Exactly so how-

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Grok. Don't forget Grok, right? Yeah. What's, what are we doing out there? so How do we, navigate, the, the shiny object syndrome and keep focus? Yeah, so that's where I, where I think leadership really does need to come in. I think leadership needs to come in and say, "Okay, here are, here are the tools that are approved," and we're starting to see that. We've got, you know, companies that are on Microsoft stacks, and they're going down the Copilot, and s- other folks that are on Anthropic, and they're going down the Claude. And so really creating that governance around... And, and I know governance is not a bad word, so people are like, "Oh gosh, that's terrible." But here's the tooling that we're gonna use, and here's how we are gonna use it. And so while we know there might be other tools out there that you would appreciate, let's talk about the ramifications if you go out on your own and start to use them off of your phones or off of other things. And I was coaching a leadership team, about a month ago, and they had, a younger person, who was super excited about all the AI and all the tooling and all the technology and, was, On his phone and showing all the different things he could do. And look, I recorded this conference call, and it transcribed it, and it was amazing, and it gave me- All these insights on what I should do next. And I said, "Wait, time out. This person has now taken internal conversations and data. He's recorded it on his phone, and he now has it on his phone that can be, you know, sent out and leveraged to anybody outside of the company, which is basically a breach of corporate data and corporate policy." But he probably didn't think about that- Mm-hmm you know, because he was so excited about what he could bring this technology. And so again, that's where the governance and The conversation needs to come up when it comes to AI is like, we hear you. We know there's so many cool things out there. Let's be really cautious about how we're leveraging it so that we don't... So like you're now in violation, which he probably never... that was never his intention, right? We're gonna always assume positive intent. But he probably never thought like, oh, you're right. And, you know, as you get into even more regulated industries like healthcare and, insurance, all of that, so If we're talking about patient data or anything of that nature, again, we've now really violated, the policies that we've put in place as a company. So leadership needs to get ahead of it- As much as possible, start to say what are the tools that we are gonna use, and where's the right way that we're gonna use it, and then how do we make sure that our folks understand and are educated on it, And what are the ramifications if they don't? Right yeah. But one thing, of course, is, and especially when we're dealing with new frontiers, is mistakes will happen. Always. so, do you consult your leadership team on contingency plans, being ready for that mistake when it does happen? We do talk about that, and I think it's, you know, how much grace do you give somebody as they're, they're learning as well. So, you know, we have to be able to say, "Okay, yes, we appreciate you being excited and wanting to experiment and try new things. Let's do it over here in this sandbox." and let's not take it to the extreme and say, "Okay, we have to get rid of them." Now, if they've actually done something that's a major breach, that might be something where they have to learn. I hate to say that, but that might be a learning for some of the others to say, "This is a major breach Of our data or our policies or a violation." So I think, you know, we want people to experiment. We want them to be excited. We also want to, as leaders, again, get in front of it as much as possible so we don't have as much, potential repercussions, which is why AI kind of scares me, and I worry about where it could take companies, because we... it is kind of this Wild Wild West out there, and we're trying to figure this, figure this all out as we're paving new paths with it. Yes. Yes. it's a, it can be scary and exciting at the same time. All at the same time. Well, I guess that's the reason why people get on roller coasters, right? Then it's because they're- Right. The thrill of it to see what's gonna happen, right? Exactly. That's right. They're gonna try, or you know, skydive or do something crazy, so... Well, let's get back to the leadership operating system. And- Sure and on your website, you have two major steps and workshops. I mean, one is the, Leadership alignment labs, and the other one Is execute for impact. Yeah. So can you tell us these processes so the leadership alignment lab really stemmed out of, I had folks that were coming to me to say, "Hey, could you help me coach this one leader one-on-one?" Because there's either something, They don't have executive presence, or we're trying to grow them to the next level or whatever. And then as we would get on conversations, I would start to have the intro conversation. I would start to ask questions about, "Well, tell me about the peers that are surrounding them, and do they have coaching, and do they have support?" And as we started to Peel back the onion on what was going on, they would often say, "You know, I honestly would love to get one-on-one coaching for the whole team." So then we started doing, and we've done this multiple times With hundreds of leaders. We'd coach one-on-one the teams, the leadership teams individually, and then we would talk about, "Well, then how do we make sure they come together collectively as a group, and they understand the strategy, they understand the focus?" And we also work on team development and building that leadership team. And so the lab really evolved out of these, we kept seeing the patterns of like, "Okay, come help us with one leader." Now we, we should probably support everybody in this journey. Yeah. Help us with the entire team, and come help us work together better as a team. So that's really the premise of the lab, is one-on-one leadership coaching as well as quarterly strategy team development and off-sites and getting focus in where we're trying to go. I actually just,

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ha-

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published a book called The Fix- Which is a business fable about the lab, and it really talks about the lens of, of kind of the process and some of the things that we see when we're working with different leaders. so sort of fun. We can talk a little bit more about that. And then execute for impact is then taking whatever we do in that strategy work, and in those quarterly sessions, and really helping folks understand how to execute upon that. So the best strategy is fantastic, but if you can't do anything with it or if you can't execute on it, it doesn't matter. And that's a lot where I see companies and teams that kind of break down is, "Great, we've, we've got a room for two days. We built this beautiful strategy," and it goes back to shelf wear. Hmm. So then how do we take it and realize it and normalize it and keep The rhythm and the pace and the conversations and The most important strategic things that we decide we're gonna focus on alive and working for that quarter? And so it's really an extension of that strategy planning and taking into an execution. Hmm. Hmm. Great. And then so, With, I mean, let's, let's bring in your book. I mean, you, you said that the book is about, people not being broken, but systems being broken, right? So- Yes so, Can you tell us a little bit about, the book? Who it's written for- Yeah and- Yeah, So the book, it's called The Fix. it's a business fable where people are not broken, but the systems are. Because I would get asked to come in And more times than not, like, "Could you just fix this? Could you fix this one thing about this person?" Right? And, I started saying like, "Well, people technically aren't broken," right? There could be something else that's causing them to appear broken. And usually it's the system that we've built around them, Or have not built around them, or the support that we've not given them. And so the book is really written from... It's written from the voice of a coach or a consultant, so a little bit different than maybe most business fables.

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And it's

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geared towards CEOs, and it's geared toward leadership teams, and it's... to really think about, you know, if you think you have this one leader on the team that maybe isn't fitting, is it really that leader or is it what you've either put in place or not put in place that's causing them not to be successful? And so it goes through a, a whole session of one-on-one coaching and quarterly, you know, strategy sessions, and really has the CEO take a look at and questioning, "Is it actually me and what I haven't put in place, or is it the person?" And usually it's a combo of both. Sometimes the person usually needs some sort of coaching. There is something that needs to be, made aware. They need to be made aware of how they're being perceived. But it's also what we've created around them, and either the feedback we haven't been giving them or the direction we haven't been giving them or the decisions We haven't been making. And so it's really trying to look at all the different pieces that go into building a high-performing leadership team. And something that's kind of fun about the book is that it doesn't actually wrap up in a beautiful bow. That was something when I was writing it is that life isn't always that way, and leadership teams aren't always that way. We don't work with them for a quarter and everything's perfect and wonderful And happy. You know, it takes time, and it takes a lot of effort and energy and intentionality to get people and teams working together. So it kinda leaves... it might leave folks a little bit like, "Oh, okay, there's still more work to do." But that's intentional because that's what we do, right? We come in, we move the needle, we do a lot of great work together. We bring a lot of things to the forefront for people that ha- they haven't like, "Oh, I had no idea this was happening." And then we continue to support them, and we just chip away at all the different things that they may need as they can continue to evolve and develop as an individual and as a team. Mm-hmm. Yes. You know, it's, it's funny y- when you're saying that, sometimes, books don't have happy endings or, I always laugh because, American movies always have that riding into the sunset, right? Everything's perfect, right? And then you go and you see a French film, and you're like going, "Oh, boy, I wish that would've ended differently." But- life happens, right? sometimes we go through a process, and we learn something new, and a new challenge comes to being, and we need to move forward towards that. So it's nice to see that we're being realistic it's a journey, right? And there's never, ever an ending to it. unless a company, Decides to, to stop doing business, then there's an ending, but there still is always usually something that continues to linger on. And so I think that's just a reality of life and work and leadership is the journey continues and it takes several different paths, and there's thorns and there's roses and, You really have to figure out how you're gonna navigate that as you continue your career and where you're going, within, your life. And so, I wanted to show that. I work with my teams for multiple years at a time, my engagements are not like, "Okay, come in for a quarter and make us, and fix us 'cause we're all broken." No, that's... Okay, we'll work on some stuff, but, We spend multiple years and we evolve together. Mm-hmm. I learn, they learn. And it's just... You know, and also I think coaches and consultants can read the book. There's some of the strategies that I use. I'm- it's- nothing is proprietary. And so hopefully as a coach or a consultant you can leverage the book to say, "Oh, how do I have this conversation?" Or, "Is there a tooling I can bring in?" Or, "Oh yeah, that's the problem that I've been trying to help my leader through." And It's kind of written from a couple different angles that I think a few different audiences can hopefully, appreciate it. Nice. And so where can our listeners find the, the copy of your book? Yeah. So it's, all over Amazon, hardcover, softcover, Kindle version, the e-book. There's also, it's on Spotify if you're an audiobook. I'm an audiobook fanatic. I do my walks and my driving and everything's an audiobook, So, there's many different ways to find it. You can also go to my website crossimpact.co, and there's a page about the book, where to Buy it and purchase it. And so hopefully It's pretty easy to find. Again, it's called The Fix, by Betsy Kaufman, so super easy to find out there. Perfect. Thanks, Betsy. You know, what I like to do with, on these shows is make sure that our listeners can walk away with an actionable outcome. And so if you're working with an executive team that wants to strengthen their, their leadership operating system over the next 90 days, where should they begin? You know, what, what comes before the tools, before the, the, the process, the rollout? I mean, what, what, what needs to happen there? What's the first step? Yeah. So, It's funny, I actually... So I have a survey. I have a free survey out there that's a leadership alignment survey, so just go to my website. It'll pop right up, and it's 10 easy questions, and it kind of just talks through, like, how are you doing in making decisions? How are you doing in working together? Do you, how do you handle healthy conflict? And it gives you some, some feedback. It also asks some questions about you as a leader, right? And so we ask for honesty. So that's a good way to get started is just To kind of step through the questions and think about them. It'll give you a score, and you'll get all of that back. I think the next thing would be, as a leader, I would get your folks around a table and ask each one of them individually, "What is the single most important thing that we should be working on right now, today? What is our number one priority?" And that will tell you a lot about how well your leadership team knows what they're supposed to be doing and what they're supposed to be accomplishing. More likely than not, nine times, 9.99 times out of 10 I usually get five to six different answers, depending on, you know, however many, if there's five to six people sitting around a table. And so that really Tells you, like, okay, do we actually know what we're all supposed to be doing, or are we all going in different directions, and we need to come together And really synthesize on what are the most important things for us and what should we be focused on as a company? Yes. Betsy, You really brought us back to the truth. A lot of companies have been learning the hard way that, When we are faced with a, a rapid change, it's not always the technology that's the problem, it's how people need to gather around a line and know how to execute on the issue. So thank you for bringing that to life. And I like The answer you have, around the leadership operating system, the shared priorities, the shared decision-makings, those making sure that we all have a rhythm around that and, and of course, mostly shared accountability. Mm-hmm. So thank you. Thank you so much For being on the show today. Yeah, thanks for having me. It's been great, I appreciate it. Perfect. For our listeners out there, if this conversation helped, please subscribe, rate the podcast, and then most importantly, share this conversation with a colleague That, needs to really hear this, this message. There's many leaders out there that need the help or need to have that little bit of guidance around how to organize their team and to really confront or get over that next issue. So let's get together And share these thoughts, and thank you for joining us on The People Strategy Forum. We'll see you next time. All right. Take care, everyone.