(EN) Can You Feel at Home When Home Is Far Away? with David Pinkerton

In this BrightBond episode, Patrick Duriaux speaks with David Pinkerton, a CEO and former expat, about what it truly means to build connection, belonging, and community when living across borders.

Moving abroad can be exciting. It can bring new opportunities, new cultures, and new perspectives. But it can also be emotionally challenging, especially when family, familiar routines, and close relationships are far away.

Together, Patrick and David explore how expats can build real friendships in a new country, how to stay connected with family across distance, and how a new city can slowly become a community. They also discuss leadership, human connection in business, and how CEOs can keep relationships genuine rather than transactional.

This conversation is not only for expats. It is for anyone who has ever felt disconnected, even in a familiar place, and wants to strengthen their circle of people.

BrightBond — real conversations about human connection across generations, cultures, and everyday life.

Contact: BrightBond@alto.cool

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BrightBondOfficial

David Pinkerton:

dpinkerton@alpllc.com 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 1:12

Hello, hello, hello, and a warm welcome to Brightband, the podcast about real human connection across generations, cultures, and everyday life. I'm Patrick Duriau, and here we share real conversations that leaves you with practical ideas to create more connection. Today's episode is a very interesting episode because it touches millions of people around the world. How to build your circle wherever you are. And to speak about this great topic, I'm very honored and happy to have my guest today, David Pinkerton, a CEO and former expert who understands what it means to build a life, relationships, and a sense of belonging across borders. Moving abroad can be exciting. It can open doors to new opportunities, new cultures, new languages, and new ways of seeing the world. But it can also be deeply challenging. You may have a new job, a new home, a new rhythm of life, but not yet the circle of people that makes a place truly feel like home. David has also experienced something many experts know very well living in one country while family is far away in another. That distance can bring freedom and opportunity, but also moment of loneliness, guilt, and emotional separation. In this conversation, we explore how to build relationships when living abroad, how to stay close to family across distance, how to turn a new city into community, and how leaders can create relationships that are genuine, human, and not only transactional. Because wherever we live, whatever roles we have, and whatever culture we come from, one thing remains essential. We all need people around us. So today with David, we ask a simple but powerful question. How do we build our circle wherever we are? David, it's great to have you in this episode, and welcome to Brightbond.

SPEAKER_00 3:39

Well, I'm really happy to be here, Patrick, and I want to compliment you on how you really framed the issues for expats and how important you know the context of being an expat. And then you you really did a great job in uh framing the issues. So I'm really excited to have a conversation about it.

SPEAKER_01 3:59

Thank you so much, David. And uh likewise, I'm so happy to uh have your experience to be able to speak to you. Uh you lived it, you breathed it. So I'm so happy also for our listeners that they're gonna be able to have your view uh being an expat and living abroad. So to start, I just wanted to ask how old are you, David? Where are you based at the moment and what brings you positive energy at the moment?

SPEAKER_00 4:25

Okay. Uh well, I'm 65. I just turned 65. Um, so some would call that entering the retirement age, but I've made a conscious decision that I don't want to do that. I want to keep working. I just uh shift the balance of my life. Uh what gives me energy and and happiness? I have a lot of different hobbies and different interests besides work. Uh I have spent uh a lot of my time within my profession, and I really enjoy what I'm doing because it's it's intellectually challenging, um, and it gives an opportunity and a platform to have continued social engagement. But I've found that over time, you know, I need to balance uh that uh dimension of my life with many other things. Uh I like gardening, I like outdoors, nature, fitness, fishing, uh, exercise. I like social engagement and friendships. Uh, unfortunately, I have a wife that I would say, you know, is my best friend. So we have a lot of fun together. Um, so I I do have a lot of different hobbies. Uh, I would say I'm not uh exceptional at anything, but I'm pretty good at everything.

SPEAKER_01 5:38

Okay, that's very great.

SPEAKER_00 5:40

So that's in my philosophy in the US. We have a term for that. It's called, you know, a jack of all trades. So I have uh tried almost everything.

SPEAKER_01 5:50

That's amazing. That's fantastic. And uh where are you based to do all those beautiful activities?

SPEAKER_00 5:56

Well, um, I'm sure you'll get into this a little bit later, but at the moment, I'm in a really beautiful little suburb of Pennsylvania called Wayne, Pennsylvania, or it's a suburb of Philadelphia, sorry. Uh it's called Wayne. And what's nice about this area is that it's it's it's suburban, it's uh full of full of nature, but it also has some urban density. So there's plenty of things to access nearby.

SPEAKER_01 6:26

Okay, wonderful, very nice. I don't really know that region, but uh I heard it's really nice, and uh the nature is also amazing, right?

SPEAKER_00 6:34

Uh yeah, it's not quite like Switzerland, uh, but there is, you know, within 30 minutes, you can be in what people around here call horse country. So there's a lot of uh farms and and and estates. And what has been interesting for me to return to Pennsylvania is um to kind of be reminded and and redig into the history of Pennsylvania, which is quite remarkable, uh, was founded by uh William Penn a long time ago on a really interesting premise of offering religious liberty to people, um, offering uh freedom. And so I'd like to imagine that Pennsylvania is one of the birthplaces of liberty and freedom uh in democratic uh countries.

SPEAKER_01 7:26

Beautiful, beautiful story to share with our listeners. That's fantastic. You also spoke just uh right at the beginning about uh beautiful thing. You just mentioned that your wife is also your best friend. And I wanted to uh talk to you a bit about friendship. Uh specifically, uh, you are now in the US, but you used to live in Switzerland. So I wanted to ask you what's helped you build real relationships when you are living abroad.

SPEAKER_00 7:55

Yeah, it's uh it's a it's a really great question. And I'm so excited to kind of explore this and uh prepare and go into it. But I think a little bit of background is helpful for me to explain, you know, the journey that I went on. Um so I uh left the US uh in a professional capacity, went to Switzerland um for a job, like many people that moved to another country. And I held a reasonably high position in the company. So I was immediately introduced to, you know, uh the employee base was 300 people at that time. And so I was introduced to a variety of different people. I had a team that worked for me, so I met them and their friends and their families. So I had the advantage of entering Switzerland with an ecosystem of a social network. Um, and that was that was quite the advantage. Um but and it's it's also um really uh kind of a growth opportunity and expansive because you meet people from a variety of different backgrounds and cultures. Um so you know that was also quite a learning uh thing for me. And the the job that I had also required me to travel to the Middle East and to other countries, to Russia and to uh Southeast Asia. So I was constantly interfacing with people from different cultures, different stages of states of life. And I think that um that professional awareness and then the social uh exposure to people from different countries, it uh it I think enhances your empathy uh for others because you realize that people are oftentimes many different, much different. But fundamentally, um, and this may be an oversimplification, I found that uh a lot of people have very similar and common values, uh, no matter where they live. They all want the best for their children, for their family, they want safety, they want security, um, they want stimulation, they want friendship. So uh all the things that you have described are things that I've experienced in my real uh life.

SPEAKER_01 10:15

That's fantastic. That's really great. So if I understood you well, the the fact that you uh arrived straight away into a role, into a role uh to a job in a new country, kind of to help you uh to build relationship around you, is that correct? Or were there other other things?

SPEAKER_00 10:34

Uh yeah, so that was that was the layer one. But then um, you know, there I developed, and again, uh I developed a sense that, you know, as you pointed out, that sometimes those relationships can be um either under the structure of the corporate politics, uh, or they can be transaction-oriented. And so I felt the need to kind of step outside of you know those relationships because when you're in that context, you know, I'm David Pinkerton, the chief investment officer. I don't necessarily have the freedom to explore relationships or another aspect of my personality outside of how people identified with me as a professional. So um, you know, I started to seek out and want to have a connection to people that really didn't care what my profession was, um, because that's really important, because you know, you constantly get, you know, feedback and validation for who you are as a professional. But uh, you know, if you ever have that profession, you know, ripped away from you, it can cause an identity crisis. So I think it's pretty important to establish, you know, a web of different social connections that go beyond those that are, you know, principally professional.

SPEAKER_01 12:07

Yeah, that's very very interesting. We will come back to that point. I think it's a very uh interesting point because there's a lot of people who have a higher position in in organization and maybe again, not uh not always easy to uh keep a genuine relationship with people around us in the work environment. But I will come back to that point in in a second. I just wanted to jump to one thing which is interesting because you mentioned that the role and coming to a role straight away helped. Um, I wanted to ask you, what would you say to people, maybe, and I've got people around me, and I also relocate to the UK and lived abroad myself. Uh, if you don't actually come to a role, if you don't come to a job, what is your recommendation? How would you say people can actually build that first relationship with people when they arrive to a new country, but unfortunately don't have a job yet?

SPEAKER_00 13:02

Ah, yeah. Well, that's uh that is very ambitious and bold uh to kind of go to a new country without a job. Um, but I'm sure some people would do that. Um I think there's there is uh an aspect of that that it's brave, but it's also another angle to it, which is uh quite interesting because I did that at a different stage in my life. I went to France without a job. And, you know, in many respects, that's liberating because you can go to a new place with no established identity, with no responsibilities to, you know, a job or to a family or to whomever, and you can pretty much redefine yourself how you want to define yourself. And it's very uh it may be lonely, but oftentimes that loneliness is a period of time which is very introspective. And you get to know yourself uh better than you would if you immediately throw yourself into a web of external uh relationships. So um with that said, I think you know it's always important to have that healthy balance of you know uh introspection, but also, you know, a healthy social network. Uh because uh oftentimes if you spend too much time alone, you end up ruminating about uh the wrong things. Um you may uh you know overthink things, uh, worry about things too often. So I think socialization definitely gets you out of your own head in the right time.

SPEAKER_01 14:44

Yeah, that's an interesting. I think uh it's finding a balance, right, between having your own time. And it's beautiful what you just said, going to France. You had the time for yourself to to self-reflect. And uh, as you said, it's also, of course, very important to uh be not totally isolated and also interact with people. So it's a fine line and a balance to find, I guess, right?

SPEAKER_00 15:06

Right. But going back to uh one of the things that you started with, which now I just realized the connection, one of my passions and hobbies, even when I was in France at the age of 23, and then later kind of reopened it again uh in Switzerland was photography. Um and it started because in Switzerland almost everything is beautiful, and you can almost not be a bad photographer. So I enjoyed um you know, many times going out and on excursions uh to take photographs of the landscapes of nature, um, and started out with the obvious things like the mountains and the Alps and the glaciers and and trees. But then it became um, you know, more fascinating to me of uh astronomy and taking pictures of the stars at night, which is a completely different skill. Um excuse me, but once you start engaging in a hobby like that, you find many other people that have similar interests. And um it develops, you know, uh uh a network of friendships around an activity. And I develop some very, very um nice friendships with other photographers and people that uh enjoyed the things that I enjoy.

SPEAKER_01 16:30

Oh, that's really nice. So now same passion. That's uh very interesting. I just realized and I didn't know that you like astronomy. I like astronomy myself. So I wanted to ask you any tip for the the people who love astronomy in Switzerland? Where would you say it's a very good spot to actually observe the sky and distance?

SPEAKER_00 16:48

Yeah, well, it's it there are a lot you have to get away from the cities, obviously, to uh eliminate the the light pollution, but uh going up into the mountains is probably you know the the best locations for you know that that that darkness. But I just heard that uh Switzerland has created an area, and I can't remember, we could probably look it up, but uh an area for astronomy viewing in Switzerland where it's uh you know they they keep the lights low or down. Um so up in the mountains is it's the uh the most interesting. Um I was oftentimes out in the wintertime at night, which is quite arduous or and challenging because it's so cold. Um, but uh I think the winter skies also are are different than than the summer skies. So um, you know, and it was an isolating experience, but I enjoyed very much. But then the production of those photographs and sharing them with other people that also enjoyed uh astronomy photography that opened up you know a new network of connection.

SPEAKER_01 17:57

That's beautiful. That's beautiful. Have you been to Saint Luc? It's in a Swiss French part of Switzerland. It's uh a good place actually in Switzerland to observe the sky.

SPEAKER_00 18:08

No, I haven't, but uh you know, yeah. You can send me a note on that, I'll put it on my list. But yeah, I like you go out all over the place at night and look at the stars. And uh that's one of the things I do miss about uh Switzerland because I think it was much darker there than it is here. We're too close to Philadelphia to have you know super dark skies.

SPEAKER_01 18:32

Okay, nice. Yeah, I understand that's so yeah. I will definitely send you the tip uh and I will uh write it, of course, uh for you. I also uh wanted to um touch base on another aspect, of course, and we uh spoke about it in the introduction is the family. Uh you were living in Switzerland, uh, your family was still in the US and lived in the US. I wanted to ask you what was maybe the the hardest for you to be uh um distance apart, and maybe also what helped you keep your family bonds strong?

SPEAKER_00 19:03

Yeah. That that is a uh it's a it's a very important topic, and I'm glad that uh to share my perspective on it. And the setup is um, you know, I went to Switzerland initially not knowing how long I would be there. Uh it ended up being 15 years. But in the beginning, um, you know, my children were kind of in uh a social uh network in schools, and so we decided with my wife at the time that uh we would sort of leave them in place and I would kind of go out and and and take the job elsewhere. Um, so the way uh we started um kind of maintaining that connection is fortunately technology enables, you know, things like this, uh FaceTime. But then uh more important was, you know, family vacations. So I used the opportunity of being in Europe to host uh European vacations uh with my children um as often as possible. So it was usually Christmas and summertime. Um and those were fantastic uh moments for all of us. Um, you know, because I'm also a photographer, I took a lot of pictures of all of those moments, and they are, you know, now epic memories uh with my children who had the uh the the fortune to visit a lot of European cities and enjoy you know the European uh nature uh for many, many years. So that was one strategy. Um but then um you know my parents were uh older and I found that uh I was on the phone with my mother um at least twice a week. And I think I developed uh you know more intimacy with her because I was away. And I leaned on that relationship uh quite regularly with my mother. I shared videos, I shared pictures, I shared my travel experiences with her. Um, and that became a source of us getting reconnected as you know, an adult to, you know, an elderly woman. And uh then she passed away, and I kind of picked up the same habit with my father. Um and uh so that's how I stayed connected to my my parents and my children, um, much lesser extent to my brother and sister. Um, you know, they were both busy with their own families, so they didn't have as much time to share. But uh yeah, fortunately, technology enables, you know, cross-border, cross-time zone communication connection.

SPEAKER_01 21:52

That's very interesting. You touched on different aspects uh in your answer. Uh I found it very interesting that you mentioned that uh to some extent the distance reconnected you uh with your mother and your father. That's amazing. It's uh very beautiful to hear. Uh, and I'm sure a lot of listeners will be able to uh rely on that, uh, because a lot of experts obviously have their family all around the world. Um, I also uh wanted to uh underline or ask you um because you organized vacation in different places for your family. How do you think that has uh impacted positively your family, your children, your your ex-wife, and and yeah, people around you basically?

SPEAKER_00 22:37

Um Well, there's uh I mean it it really comes down to uh some a belief that I have philosophically is you know, I wanted to give my children memories and and values more than things. And so I found that uh vacations and experiences together in different places, you know, really was congruent with that belief. You know, they had experiences, they have memories, they are, you know, completely aware of. All the beauty of France, Italy, and Spain and Switzerland. And they have some great memories. They both have, my children have friendships that they've developed with other now young adults in Switzerland. So I think it was really a positive experience for them in that way. And the other kind of reason that I wanted to share and do that for them is that I wanted to show them that there is a world outside of the United States. And I think too many people that are born and raised in the United States don't have that opportunity to embrace other cultures and other places. Yes, it it is uh it can be an expensive proposition to travel outside of the United States. And it sometimes can sound very glamorous, but there are also many um you know lower budget, lower cost options uh that are available. You know, there's camping everywhere. Um so um my kids like to do you know the full spectrum of you know roughing it to uh you know having a good time and having good meals.

SPEAKER_01 25:08

Amazing. That's great. It's nice to see that, as you said, uh you kids actually managed to also build relationships abroad uh whilst they were having vacation and and keeping those relationships and those friendships. So it's really beautiful to see. And I'm sure that uh that's uh open their mind as well to uh go to different countries, different cultures, different languages. And and speaking about mindset, actually, I wanted to ask you as well. Um for the listeners as well, uh, what do you think? We speak about mindset a lot nowadays. What do you think would be um one mindset shift that turns people when they arrive again to a new city to create that new community or meet people? What did you have yourself kind of a shift to do to kind to create and bond with people? Uh what would you say to people maybe again maybe arrive to a new new country without a job? Sometimes you have to change the mindset, I believe. I wanted to to ask you what was your experience changing your mindset?

SPEAKER_00 26:10

Yeah. Um, well, I think I I don't know if I changed my mindset because I think I've always had a curiosity to travel. Um, for me, it started when I was a little boy, and my grandparents would come back from traveling and they would share, you know, the stories of their adventures. So I've always had, you know, a very kind of open mind and curiosity about traveling and discovery and you know, the surprise of something new. So I don't know for me if it was a change of a mindset necessarily, but um, you know, I think it certainly helped in Switzerland that there was a, you know, a sort of a when you're an expat and you're going in and you are there, you need to, you know, engage with different service providers. Um, you know, the dry cleaning, the hotel, the restaurateurs, the, you know, the gym operators, all of those different service providers are sort of your points of contact. And Switzerland has a wonderful uh distinct advantage of being very hospitable service culture. So I found that almost just about everybody that I engaged with in some type of service function was always super, super friendly. And, you know, um, I had the advantage of, you know, having a position that had, you know, some level of status in the in the in the country, so that was helpful. But I found, you know, people were super friendly to me always. Um you know, so I I don't know that it was a mindset change, but you know, I I think that um you you kind of have to if you want to be there and you want to be in a country and you want the adventure, then you're going to have the right mindset. If you're not, if you don't want to be there, then you won't have the mindset uh that's right. So it's all about, you know, if you are there because you want to be there, then I think that will be uh drive your mentality.

SPEAKER_01 28:26

Okay, that's very interesting. And uh it seems that's you had quite an easy way uh with your personality. I guess you uh easily approach people and you're able to have a good contact with people. Um I was asking also that question because when I moved to the UK and I was uh I'm maybe more on a shy side. So I actually had to I had to uh change a bit my mindset, uh my mindset uh and take some steps, being a bit brave and push myself. It was not natural to me to uh go to talk to people to total strangers. But as you said, I had no choices. It's either I would stay alone or make that step. And that's for me, that's really taught me um to be brave and approach people uh again openly, with a smile, asking a question and be curious. And it really helped me broaden my circle uh pretty quickly, actually. But uh again, people are different, and uh, I know some people are more in a shy way, people are more maybe having easily contact with people, but that's interesting to also see uh, as you said, there's different points, as you say, as well, when you arrive around you. Right. Great, fantastic. Um, I also wanted to come back to one of the um the points you already uh touched based on. Um it's more always on the work relationship standpoint. You you are a CEO, and when you arrived in Switzerland, you were at that level, so the top level, C level. There's a lot of people who are actually going to expatriation and moving countries for jobs because they have the opportunity to have great jobs, right? Very high-level jobs. So, how did you keep the relationship genuine uh and not transactional with your colleagues uh specifically when you arrive as a CEO of a company? And I think a lot of CEOs and uh high-level people can uh listen to that and relate to that.

SPEAKER_00 30:25

Yeah, it it I'd say it is something that I've thought about a long time in my life, not just in the Swiss experience, but before. But there's the definition of oneself in the professional capacity, and then there's everything else. And when you're you know in a hierarchy uh and you have a staff and you have relationships, there's always um you know a political dimension to those uh those relationships, which can you know undermine you know your ability to be truthful and be feeling free because you have to be guarded sometimes. Um so um you know I found that but oftentimes many of those relationships uh they evolved into personal relationships uh later on. So um, you know, I have become you know good friends with you know a lot of those people. I know that we no longer work together, but we're now you know friends without the work connection anymore. Uh so that's I'd say they it they can evolve into becoming personal relationships, or you can search out other hobbies and develop to build uh relationships with people around those activities, whether it's music or sports, tennis, um, cello. You know, I I attempt to play the cello, for example, and I uh this was during COVID, and um I started taking lessons, and you know, I have become very good friends with uh my cello instructor now, um, who uh has uh you know different age, different uh uh country origin, completely different, but we have mu the love of music in common, and uh we become very close friends and never worked together a day in our lives. But uh so there's plenty of opportunities. I think Switzerland is especially you know attractive and fertile grounds for socialization because there's so many different people that are attracted to Switzerland for different reasons. So there's a very vibrant expat community. So if you want to stay connected to other expats, I think uh there's a very, very high frequency of connections between other expats because they're all looking to connect. Um, and they're very open-minded and friendly to other people from other places because they all know that they're in the same boat. They may not feel uh Swiss per se, but uh they certainly can fit in with the other expats.

SPEAKER_01 33:10

Wonderful. I want to applaud you first to have uh started learning such a beautiful instrument as cello. It's a beautiful instrument, so congratulations on that. And it's great to hear that this became a passion and it became a friendship with uh with your teacher. That's uh beautiful, beautiful to hear. Um, you also uh I wanted to go a bit deeper, if it's okay with you, in a human being standpoint. You spoke about your cello teacher who was from another country, uh another language, and I'm sure, as you mentioned, in Switzerland there's a lot of experts, a lot of people from different cultures. I wanted to ask you, uh, maybe did you learn a lesson uh whilst being in Switzerland when it comes to cross-cultural uh learning? Did you learn about how people bond in general? What would you say? People from different countries, different cultures, different languages. If you try to think about the overall human being, how do you think people bond? What is the common reality that you have observed as an expert and interacting with people from different cultures?

SPEAKER_00 34:16

That's uh that's a really good question. And I I I I'm not sure I would stratify the connection by country or culture, although that is a dimension. I'd say it's more about values and potentially education level. Um so you know, there's and potentially age is also kind of a connection. So I think people in the same age bracket oftentimes have, you know, similar issues. They're dealing with children, they're dealing with, you know, separation, divorce, or what all sorts of other common things that come up with people within certain age groups. So that's a real easy way to connect because I think the issues are oftentimes the same or similar. Um, but then, you know, there's there's there's political orientation and values. So, you know, for example, my cello teacher and I, we are from completely different countries. He's probably you know 30 years younger than I am, but we share very similar, you know, economic uh and political views. So we had a connection uh on that level. So it wasn't, you know, that this the the countries matched us, its values matched, its passions and interests and hobbies match. And you know, you you need to just kind of keep an open mind to find what is that common denominator with those other people, and um keeping the open mind helps you find the commonness as opposed to the areas where you have you know differences.

SPEAKER_01 36:02

Okay, great, great to hear that. No, no, it does. It's that answered your question. Sure. No, no, you you shared your experience, and that was exactly my question. What was your experience? And that's really uh interesting to to hear. And uh, as you say, values are you know important and you can connect with anyone if you have the same value. And so it's a very uh uh very interesting point here, absolutely. I also wanted to uh ask you about the um aspect of well-being. I don't know if when you arrive in Switzerland or when you went to France, for instance, as an expat, did you have habit or ritual to uh to you know be in well-being? And well-being means anything, could be physically, spiritually, physically, uh mentally, and also to uh have good uh we say a healthy relationship. So I don't know if you had some habit or some rituals to keep that in a in and in good shape. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:57

Yes, that that what one of the uh things that uh well I've been a ha a creature of professional habits. I mean, I still wake up super early and I start working, no matter whether it's a weekend or or not. I just you know want to kind of start thinking about my professional life. Um but the opportunity and and having no uh obligations upon arrival in Switzerland, I found that I had more time on my hands. Um so I develop you know habits of swimming. The pools, swimming pools in Switzerland are are amazing. So I started swimming more regularly. Uh I joined a gym. Um and uh later on I started going to church uh where other expats uh would go. So there's there's there's so many, there's plenty of infrastructure in Switzerland to you know reach those those rituals and have those uh kind of social habits. And that's an advantage of Switzerland versus maybe you know some other countries that don't have that kind of infrastructure.

SPEAKER_01 38:14

Yeah, that's uh very interesting what you just mentioned. The infrastructure actually uh is important and uh the habit of uh for you waking up early and then uh starting your day very early every day of the week, even uh at the weekend. So it's interesting again to think about habits can actually, or rituals can help people to uh again connect with other people in other countries when they move to other countries.

SPEAKER_00 38:41

And uh you know, you just made me realize that I think when you turn your world upside down and you move to another country and things new and everything's fresh, it's it's probably a uh a mechanism of you know one's psychology to revert to the structure that was familiar. So you have that sense of you know continuity with what you did before. So, you know, setting up your office, setting up your home, going through your ritual and maintaining similar habits that you had when you were, you know, before, that's probably you know, a very common default psychology is to, you know, build that uh that habit structure around yourself to give you that sense of security.

SPEAKER_01 39:32

Yeah, it's great. And I think from what you said just said, I feel that it's a good ground and a good base to build on it, right? Stability, I would say kind of a uh starting stability and starting base. That's really great. Great to hear. It's a great tip, actually, uh, for our listeners. Uh and speaking of our tip, um actually we're already at my last question for you, uh David. Um, I wanted to ask you, it's what we call the brightbone tip. Uh, if you could uh give uh a tip to our listeners, specifically uh maybe for someone who's uh moved abroad. Uh what would you say? What would be potentially the first step they should take as an expert who want to connect this week or next week? Something simple, something they can apply uh very quickly.

SPEAKER_00 40:19

Uh it's it's it's hard for me to kind of come up with a snappy one-liner, but I mean, I think by definition, uh go for it. Don't be afraid. Uh connect. It's life is short. I think all expats have uh inherently uh an extroverted personality. So most people that seek out an expat are those type of personalities. So um the tip is be yourself, be authentic, go out, don't be afraid, connect, and uh do what you love, be yourself.

SPEAKER_01 40:57

Wonderful. That's a great tip. Thank you so much, uh, David. I'd like to thank you uh very much for this uh great conversation today, together. I think uh all your answers will uh help a lot of people, uh, a lot of listeners. So yeah, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_00 41:13

Thank you, Patrick. You're doing a great service to so many people. Um, I'm always uh enjoy getting your perspective on a lot of things. You really come at this with a level that's I think amazing. So thank you for inviting me.

SPEAKER_01 41:27

No, most welcome. Thank you so much uh for your insights. I think uh a lot of expats are around the world, so I'm sure a lot of people will relay relate to what you you said and uh what you shared with us. So thank you for sharing as well personal things with uh your family as well. That was really uh touching, uh really beautiful. I'm just gonna summarize a little bit the episode. I think uh, as David said, um, discussion are important, to be open is open, uh important. Uh belonging does not happen necessarily automatically. Uh, we sometimes need to build uh one step at a time, relationship one step at a time. Um, new city becomes community after a little while. If we dare to uh show up, to ask questions, to be curious, as David just said, uh to uh take a first step, to accept invitation uh also, but also of course to it brings us to have a bit of courage sometimes, and we need sometimes a bit of courage. I also think that uh you experience uh living in Switzerland, and what I take from this episode as well, specifically with your family who was in the US when you're living in Switzerland. Um it's a reminder that sometimes distance is not only geographical, it can be also emotional. And it was beautiful to hear uh you experience with your parents, you reconnected with your parents, even though you are in a different uh long distance relationship. Staying connected across borders requires an intention, care in order to keep relationships alive, even if we are far apart. And I think this message, as well, is not only in my point of view, not only for the expat, uh expatriate people, but also for all of us. If we can feel uh disconnected even in a familiar place, uh sometimes we are surrounded by people, but we still uh feel that maybe we are missing the real circle around us. So, to everyone listening, I would say uh make sure that you uh take the action that David just gave you, the tip that uh David just gave you. Um, I'd like to thank you very much to listening uh to Brightbone. If this episode inspired you, don't hesitate to share it with someone else who might need it. Also, please uh subscribe to our Brightbone official YouTube channel. If you click the little bell, it's free of charge and it will help us continue our journey on Brightbund. And I would like to ask you to take good care of yourself and see you next time on Brightbund. And thank you again, David. That was a great conversation.

SPEAKER_00 43:59

Thank you, Patrick. Yeah, great to see you. Take care, bye bye.