I Would Like to Speak to the Manager of Grief

In this episode, Sarah and Crystal break down the psychology of grief, including the misunderstood “stages,” why emotions come in waves, and how loss can affect the mind, body, and relationships. They also explore how grief can show up differently within families and why tension can arise after loss.

Sarah shares her experience losing her mother to lung cancer that metastasized to the brain, and reflects on how grief changes over time. The episode closes with a personal letter to heaven.

Helpful Resources

• GriefShare
• Crisis Text Line – Text HOME to 741741 
• 988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline – Call or text 988

Disclaimer

This episode is for educational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional mental health care. If you are struggling, please reach out to a licensed professional or one of the resources above.

Transcript

Crystal 0:00

Welcome back to the dollhouse.

Sarah 0:01

I'm Crystal and I'm Sarah and we are the Marionette Dolls.

music 0:15

You know just how to twist a chuck. Make dangers feel like a lucky chug. I stood wrong, but here I stay. Applauding your wicked little plan.

Sarah 0:33

Welcome back to the dollhouse, guys. I'm so excited to do this session on grief with you, but I do want to give a warning that we are talking about grief and sensitive things. So if you need to stop and take a break, pause, or just not listen to the episode because you're feeling a little too emotional or it's too heavy for you, please do so. Don't forget to check out our show notes for any links that might be helpful for you as well. When most people hear the word grief, they usually think about sadness. They picture someone crying after losing someone they love or maybe withdrawing from the world for a while as they process what happened. But grief is actually much more complicated than that. It's not just one emotion and it doesn't look the same for everybody. For some people, grief shows up as deep sadness. For others, it might show up as anger, confusion, numbness, or even a moment of relief. And that can be confusing, especially for people who expect themselves to react in a certain way after losing someone, because we tend to grow up with this idea that grief should look a specific way. And when our experience doesn't match expectations, we sometimes wonder if we're grieving the right way. But the truth is that grief is one of the most complex emotional processes humans can experience. Grief is understood as a natural emotional and psychological response to loss. Most commonly we associate grief with the death of someone we love. But grief can also occur after other kinds of losses, such as losses of relationships, health, identity, or major life changes. When someone dies, the brain is suddenly forced to process the absence of a person who once played a meaningful role in our daily lives. That absence can affect emotional regulation, memory, routine, and even the way we think about the future. So grief is not just about feeling sad, it's about the brain adjusting to a world that no longer includes someone who once was a consistent part of it.

Crystal 2:30

And that adjustment can feel overwhelming at times because when someone we love dies, it's not just that they're gone, it's that all the moments we expect to share with them in the future are gone too. The conversations you thought you'd have someday, the holidays you thought you'd spend together, the phone calls, the advice, the little everyday interactions that were once normal parts of life. Suddenly the brain is trying to process both the loss of the person and the loss of the future you imagined with them. And that's a lot for anyone to hold emotionally.

Sarah 3:04

Grief also affects the body as well as the mind. Research has shown that people experience grief, may notice changes in sleep, appetite, concentration, and energy levels. Some individuals experience what is often referred to as grief brain, where memory and focus temporarily become more difficult. Others may feel physically exhausted even if they haven't been doing anything physically demanding. This happens because the brain is processing a significant emotional event. And that process requires energy and neurological resources. So grief can impact emotional, cognitive, and physical functioning at the same time.

Crystal 3:42

And that's another reason grief can feel so confusing, because people might expect grief to be purely emotional, but instead they might find themselves feeling physically drained, mentally foggy, or disconnected from things that normally bring them joy. They might forget things more easily, they might struggle to concentrate, they might feel like their brain is moving slower than usual. And that can make everyday life feel much harder than it did before.

Sarah 4:09

Another important aspect of grief is that it doesn't follow a predictable timeline. Some people experience intense emotions immediately after a loss. Others may feel numb at first and only begin to experience stronger emotions weeks or months later. Both responses are normal. The brain processes trauma and loss in different ways depending on the individual, the relationship with the person who died, and their personal history. There's no single timeline for grief.

Crystal 4:38

And that's something people sometimes struggle to understand when they're supporting someone who's grieving. They might expect the person to move on after a certain amount of time, but grief doesn't really work that way. It doesn't operate on a schedule. It shows up in waves. Sometimes when you expect it and sometimes when you don't. And those waves can be triggered by things that seem small to other people. A song, a memory, a place you used to visit together. But for the people grieving, those moments can feel incredibly powerful. And when people talk about grief, one of the first things that usually comes up is the idea of the stages of grief. A lot of us have heard about them at some point, but the way those stages are often explained isn't always accurate. So the next thing we should talk about is where the idea of the stages of grief came from and why grief doesn't actually happen in neat, predictable steps.

Sarah 5:32

When people talk about grief, one of the first things that usually comes up is the idea of stages of grief. Most of us have heard of them at some point in our lives. Denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance. They've often been described as a grief move through these steps as a predictable order, almost like a checklist that people move through on their way to healing. And because of that, many people expect grief to work like a process with a beginning, middle, and an end. But for most people, that experience of grief doesn't actually feel that organized. The concept of the five stages of grief originally came from the work of psychiatrist Elizabeth Kubler-Ross in the late 1960s. Her research focused on individuals who were facing terminal illness and confronting their own mortality. In her work, she observed emotional patterns that some patients experienced while coming to terms with the end of their life. Those patterns were later described as the five stages: denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. Over time, this framework became widely known and was eventually applied to the grieving process experienced by people who have lost loved ones. However, Kubler-Ross herself later clarified that these stages were never intended to describe a rigid or universal sequence. They were observations of emotional experience that might occur, not steps that everyone must move through in a specific order.

Crystal 7:01

But the way the stages are often presented makes it sound like grief should move neatly from one emotion to the next. Almost like if someone just works through the stages properly, they'll eventually reach acceptance and everything will feel resolved. And that expectation can create pressure for people who are grieving. Because if they don't experience those emotions in that order, or they keep revisiting the same feelings over and over again, they may start to wonder if something's wrong with them.

Sarah 7:29

In reality, grief rarely unfolds in a predictable sequence. People may experience several of these emotions at once, or they may move back and forth between them over time. Someone might feel acceptance one day and anger the next. They might feel sadness months after the loss, even if they previously felt like they were coping well. Grief tends to behave less like a series of steps and more like waves. To those waves may become less intense over time, but they can still appear unexpectedly.

Crystal 7:59

And that wave-like experience is something many people who have gone through grief recognize immediately. There might be moments when life feels relatively normal again. You're working, talking to friends, going about your routine, and then something reminds you of the person you lost, a smell, a place, a song. And suddenly the emotions come back just as strong as they did before. Not because you've moved backwards in your healing, but because grief doesn't disappear simply because time has passed. It changes shape over time, but it often stays with you in some form.

Sarah 8:33

Each of the emotions associated with the stages of grief can serve as psychological function. Denial can provide temporary protection from overwhelming information. Anger can emerge when the brain struggles to make sense of the painful loss. Bargaining often reflects attempts to mentally revisit moments where we wish we could have changed the outcome. Depression reflects the deep sadness that accompanies the realization of the loss. And acceptance does not necessarily mean you feel okay with the loss. It often means you've learned how to live with the reality that that person is gone. These emotional responses are not mistakes or weaknesses. They are the ways the brain processes profound change.

Crystal 9:15

And that's something I think people need to hear more often because grief doesn't come with instructions. There isn't a manual that explains how long it should take or how it should feel. Some people cry immediately, some people go numb, some people become very practical and focused on handling responsibilities. All of those reactions can exist within the same experience of loss, and none of them mean that someone loved the person any less. And that leads to another important part of grief that people don't always talk about. Not only does grief look different from each person, but the way someone grieves can depend on many different factors like their personality, their relationship with the person who died, and even their past experiences with loss. So the next thing we should talk about is why grief looks so different from one person to the other.

Sarah 10:06

One of the things that can make grief so confusing is how different people experience it. Two people can lose the same person and have completely different emotional reactions. One person might cry constantly and talk openly about the loss, while another person may become quiet and focused on practical responsibilities. From the outside, those reactions can look very different, and sometimes people interpret those differences as a sign that someone isn't grieving, quote unquote, correctly. But grief doesn't follow a universal pattern. It's shaped by the relationships we had with the person who died, our personalities, our past experience with loss, and even the way we learn to handle emotions growing up. In psychology, grief responses are influenced by several factors. One of the most significant is the nature of the relationship with the person who died. The loss of a parent, partner, sibling, or child can create different emotional experiences because each relationship plays a unique role in someone's life. For example, if you lose a parent, it may involve not only sadness, but also the loss of a source of guidance, security, and identity. The brain must adjust to the absence of someone who once played a meaningful role in shaping our everyday lives.

Crystal 11:18

And that adjustment can be complicated because when someone dies, you're not only grieving the person themselves, you're also grieving the routines and the connections that existed around them. Maybe they were the person you called when something exciting happened. Maybe they were the one who remembered birthdays or who gave advice when things felt uncertain. When that person is gone, it's not just their presence that disappears, it's the role they played in your life.

Sarah 11:45

Personality also influences how people experience grief. Some individuals are naturally expressive and process emotions through conversations and visible emotional reactions, while others may process emotions more internally and may appear quieter or more reserved. Neither approach is inherently healthier than the other. They simply reflect different ways people regulate emotions and cope with stress. Cultural expectations can also shape how grief is expressed. In some cultures, open emotional expression is encouraged, while others, grieving may be experienced more privately.

Crystal 12:19

And that difference in grieving styles can sometimes lead to misunderstandings between people who are mourning the same loss. One person might need to talk about memories, emotions, and the experience of losing someone. Another person might focus on staying busy or managing practical responsibilities like arrangements, paperwork, or family logistics. Both people are grieving. They're just doing it in ways that feel natural to them. But if those differences aren't understood, it can sometimes create tension.

Sarah 12:52

Another factor that influences grief is a person's previous experience with loss. Someone who has experienced multiple losses or traumatic events may process grief differently than someone encountering significant loss for the first time. Past experiences can affect emotional regulation, coping strategies, and expectations about how loss unfolds. For some individuals, grief may reopen earlier emotional wounds, while for others, previous experiences with loss may provide a framework that helps them navigate the process more effectively.

Crystal 13:21

And that's why comparing grief between people can be so unhelpful. Sometimes we hear things like, they seem okay, or they're handling it better than I would. But grief isn't something you can measure from the outside. Someone might appear calm or composed in public while struggling deep in private. Another person might express their grief very openly. Both experiences are real, and neither one tells the whole story of what someone is feeling internally.

Sarah 13:49

This variability is part of why psychologists increasingly emphasize that grief should not be viewed as a fixed sequence of emotional stages. Instead, this is often described as a dynamic process. Emotions may shift, intensify, or quiet over time, depending on circumstances, memories, anniversaries, and ongoing life events. The brain continues to integrate the reality of the loss as a person moves forward through life.

Crystal 14:15

And sometimes those emotional shifts happen in moments we don't expect. You might be doing something completely ordinary when suddenly a memory appears or something reminds you of the person you lost, a song, a smell, a place you used to go together. Those moments can bring emotions rushing back in ways that feel incredibly powerful. Not because the grief has started over again, but because grief is connected to love. And memories have a way of keeping that connection alive. And while most people think of grief as something emotional, there's another side of it that people don't really talk about as often. Grief can also affect the body and the brain in ways that surprise a lot of people. So the next thing we should talk about is what grief can actually do physically and cognitively while someone is adjusting to a loss.

Sarah 15:07

When people think about grief, they usually think about emotions, sadness, crying, missing someone. But the one thing that surprises a lot of people is grief doesn't just affect how we feel emotionally. It can affect how our body feels and how our brain functions as well. Someone who is grieving might notice they're exhausted all the time, even if they're not doing anything physically demanding. They might have trouble sleeping, or they might sleep too much, or they might sleep more than normal. Some people lose their appetite completely while others find themselves eating more than they normally would. And then there are mental effects, difficulty concentrating, forgetting things, or even feeling like their thoughts are moving slower than usual. All of these experiences can be part of the grieving process. From a psychological and neurological perspective, grief is a significant stress response. When someone experiences the loss of a loved one, the brain must process both emotional pain and a major change in life circumstances. This activates several systems in the body that are involved in stress regulation. Hormones such as cortisol, which may help the body respond to stress, may increase during periods of intense grief. Elevated stress hormones can affect sleep patterns, immune function, overall energy levels. This is the reason why people feel physically drained during the grieving process. The brain is working hard to process the loss while also adjusting to the new reality.

Crystal 16:31

And then adjustment can be mentally exhausting because your brain is constantly encountering reminders that something in your life has changed. You might instinctively think about calling the person who died or sharing something with them, only to remember that they're no longer there. Those moments can be incredibly emotional, but they're also mentally demanding. Your brain is essentially trying to rewrite the expectations it once had about the future, and that process takes time.

Sarah 17:00

Many people also experience what is sometimes informally called grief brain. This term describes the cognitive difficulties that can occur while someone is grieving. Individuals may experience forgetfulness, trouble concentrating, or difficulty making decisions. Tasks that once felt simple may suddenly require more effort. These changes do not mean that someone is losing cognitive ability permanently. Instead, they reflect the brain's temporary difficulty managing attention and memory while processing emotional distress. The brain's resources are focused on adapting to the loss, which can make everyday tasks feel more challenging.

Crystal 17:36

And that can be frustrating for people who are used to functioning at a certain level. Someone who normally feels organized and focused might suddenly find themselves forgetting appointments or struggling to complete things that used to feel easy. That can make grief feel more confusing because it's not just about emotions, it's about feeling like your whole system is off balance.

Sarah 17:58

There's also physical sensations associated with grief. Some people report chest tightness, headaches, muscle tension, or stomach discomfort during periods of intense emotional pain. In extreme cases, grief can even be associated with a condition known as stress cardiomyopathy, sometimes referred to as broken heart syndrome. This condition occurs when severe emotional stress temporarily affects the heart's ability to pump normally. While it is relatively rare, it highlights the powerful connection between emotional experience and physical health.

Crystal 18:28

And that connection really shows how deeply loss affects us. Because when we love someone, that relationship becomes woven into our everyday lives. It shapes our routine, our expectations, and even the way we see ourselves. So when that person is gone, it's not just an emotional absence, it's a disruption to the entire system of how our life once worked. And that disruption can show up emotionally, mentally, and physically all at the same time. And while grief affects people internally in many ways, it can also affect the relationship between the people who are grieving. Families who are experiencing the same loss may not always respond to it in the same way. And sometimes those differences can create tensions during an already difficult time. So the next thing we should talk about is something that happens more often than people realize is conflict within families after someone dies. When someone dies, people often imagine families coming together in support of one another, and sometimes that does happen. Loss can bring people closer, reminding them how important their relationships are and how fragile life can be. But that's not always the reality. For many families, grief can also create tension. Emotions are already high, people are exhausted, and everyone is processing the loss in their own way. And then in the middle of that emotional chaos, disagreements can start to surface. Sometimes those disagreements are about decisions that were made before the person died. Other times they involve practical matters like funeral arrangements, medical care, or the handling of a loved one's belongings and assets.

Sarah 20:04

Psychologically, grief can intensify emotions that may already exist within a family system. Family members may carry unresolved conflict, long-standing dynamics, or different perceptions of what happens during the illness or final stages of someone's life. When a loss occurs, those underlying tensions can be more visible. Grief can also amplify feelings of guilt or regret. People may wonder whether something more could have been done, whether different medical decisions should have been made, or whether they should have spent more time with the person before they died. Those questions can be very painful to sit with. Sometimes that pain gets redirected outward as anger or blame towards other family members.

Crystal 20:43

And that can be incredibly difficult for families because everyone is already hurting. When someone you love dies, emotions don't always come out in clean, organized ways. People might feel anger, even if they don't fully understand why. They might feel frustrated about decisions that were made during the illness. They might feel protected of the person who died and worry that they didn't receive the care they deserved. All of those emotions can collide at the same time. And when several people are experiencing those emotions together, misunderstandings can happen very easily.

Sarah 21:16

Another factor that can contribute to family conflict is the different roles that people take on during caregiving or medical decision making. In many situations, one family member may become the primary person communicating with doctors or managing care. Other relatives may feel excluded from those decisions or may have a different interpretation of what happened medically. Those differences and perspectives can create tension, especially if family members feel that their concerns or opinions were not fully considered. It is also common for disagreements to arise around practical matters after death, such as the distribution of belongings or financial assets. While these issues may appear to be about money or property, they are often connected. To deeper emotional concerns about fairness, recognition, and unresolved guilt.

Crystal 22:04

And sometimes that conflict isn't really about the things people are arguing about. It's about the grief underneath it. When people are hurting, they may struggle to express that pain directly. Instead of saying, I'm devastated and I don't know how to cope with losing this person, the emotions might come out as anger or frustration. That doesn't mean the conflict isn't real, but it does mean that grief can change the way people interact with one another during those moments.

Sarah 22:30

Understanding that grief can influence behavior does not erase the impact of family conflict, but it can provide some context for why these situations occur. People who are grieving may be experiencing emotional overwhelm, cognitive fatigue, and intense stress at the same time. Under these conditions, communication becomes more difficult and emotional reactions may become stronger than usual. Recognizing that these responses are often connected to grief can sometimes help families approach these conflicts with greater empathy.

Crystal 22:58

And that empathy can be important because losing someone already changes the structure of family. Relationships shifts, roles change, and people who are adjusting to a new reality without someone who once held an important place in their lives. When conflict happens during that time, it can make the grieving process even more complicated. But it also reminds us that grief is rarely simple. It's emotional, messy, and deeply human. And even though grief can bring pain, confusion, and sometimes conflict, it also changes over time. The way someone experiences grief in the early days after a loss is often very different from how they experience it months or years later. So the next thing that we should talk about is what it means to live with grief over time and how people gradually learn to carry that loss as part of their lives. When people first experience a major loss, it can feel like grief will never change. The emotions are intense, everything feels unfamiliar, and it's hard to imagine a time when life won't feel this heavy. In the early days after someone dies, grief can feel consistent. Every reminder of that person is painful. Every memory can feel overwhelming. Even simple routines may feel different because the person who once existed within those routines is suddenly gone. And during that time, many people wonder if their pain will always feel that strong.

Sarah 24:20

One of the things psychologists have learned through research is that grief does tend to change over time. That doesn't mean it disappears completely, but the intensity often shifts as the brain gradually adapts to the reality of the loss. Early in the grieving process, the brain is repeatedly encountering reminders that the person is no longer present. Each reminder forces the brain to reconcile the expectation that a person should still be there with the reality that they are not. Over time, the brain begins to adjust to this new reality. Memories of the person remain, but they may become less immediately overwhelming.

Crystal 24:54

And that shift doesn't mean that someone has stopped loving that person they lost. Sometimes people worry that if the pain becomes less intense, it means they're forgetting or moving on in a way that feels disloyal. But grief doesn't measure love. It reflects the process of adjusting to life after a loss. The love that existed in that relationship doesn't disappear simply because the emotions around it evolve.

Sarah 25:17

In modern grief research, psychologists sometimes refer to the concept of continuing bonds. This theory suggests that instead of completely letting go of the person who died, many people maintain an ongoing emotional connection with them. That connection may take the form of memories, traditions, or the influence that person continues to have on how someone lives their lives. For example, someone might think about what advice their loved one would have given them in a particular situation. They may carry forward values or lessons that a person has taught them. Rather than severing the relationships entirely, the relationship simply changes form.

Crystal 25:55

And I think the idea resonates with a lot of people who have lost someone because even though the person is no longer physically present, the impact that they had on your life doesn't disappear. You still remember the things they said, you still hear their voice in certain moments, you still think about them when something important happens. That connection doesn't vanish. It just becomes something you carry with you instead of something you experience face to face.

Sarah 26:19

Another important aspect of grief is that it doesn't always move steadily forward. Even years after a loss, certain moments can bring grief back into sharper focus. Anniversaries, birthdays, holidays, or major life events can trigger memories and emotions connected to the person who died. These moments are sometimes referred to as grief waves. They don't mean that someone has failed to heal, they just simply reflect enduring importance of the relationship that was lost.

Crystal 26:45

And that's something many people notice as time passes. There might be long stretches where life feels relatively stable again, but then a moment arrives when you realize how much you wish that person was still there. Maybe it's a milestone you want to share, maybe it's something funny you know they would have laughed at, or maybe it's just a quiet moment where you suddenly miss them. Those waves don't mean grief is starting over. They're reminders of how much that person mattered.

Sarah 27:12

Over time, many people find that grief becomes less about constant pain and more about carrying the memory of the person in a meaningful way. The loss remains part of their story, but it no longer defines every moment of their life. Instead, it becomes one piece of a larger narrative about love, connection, and the impact someone had while they were here.

Crystal 27:31

And sometimes one of the ways people maintain connection is by continuing to speak to that person they lost. Even if the conversation is no longer happening face to face, people write letters, they talk to them in quiet moments. So before we close this episode, we wanted to share something personal. But first, Sarah, a message she wishes she could send to her mom. I don't know. Yeah.

Sarah 27:56

This has been really hard. Yeah. And I have had this up for a hot minute of editing this episode and trying to figure out what I want to say because there's so much. There's so much has happened since she passed away. Her name is Karen. And no, she's not the typical Karen. She's actually really nice, very easy person to get along with and probably friends with anybody you talk to. And maybe not the most mo intelligent person, but we love her. And and I say that because I was a foster kid. I deal did this as my biological mom. We did deal with, you know, trauma that we'll later be on be discussed in future episodes. But when she did pass, it was hard, even though our connection was rocky through life. And I wanted to kind of share her story a little bit. She was diagnosed with lung cancer in January of 23. And I found out via the internet from her caregiver and that it had metastasized to her brain. I didn't know she had lung cancer. I found out I actually had a dream the night before that something had happened to my mom. And so that day I was gonna call her. I was gonna try to get with her after work, but I got a message while at work that she had been in the hospital and that she's, you know, got cancer. And my mom at that point is at the point where she was basically bedridden, anyways, because she was overweight and having a hard time with her other health issues. Unfortunately, after about two months, she ended up passing from it. And I had I had been basically nominated by her as the power of attorney to take care of her affairs. So I had to figure out how to fly down there to figure out what to do, what what I need to even do, because I didn't haven't had hadn't dealt with it before. And watch her deteriorate quickly. And that's hard. And I helped try to get my family out there, and there was like there were fights that had happened, kind of like we had talked about in previous, where there was disagreements with family members and how things should be handled and financial things. And unfortunately, death tends to bring out the worst in people. Every situation I have dealt with that had to deal with someone dying and the aftermath of it, there tends to be some sort of financial fight or people wanting things and fighting over belongings and material objects, unfortunately. So that's kind of her story in a sense. When she passed uh on St. Patrick's Day, my one of my favorite holidays in of that year, I I had a hard time processing it, to be honest with you. I feel like I held strong. I was one of those people that were supposed to be the strong person. She knew that I would be able to handle everything. I was gonna be able to navigate through the systems of what it entails people and people passing away. Unfortunately, I didn't realize just how strong I had to be for other people and the processes and having to talk to people that I hadn't healed just to appease my mom and saying her final goodbyes. So I talked to people that had abused me in the past and to get to her wishes, and not because she knew that I'd have to talk to somebody, but because I knew I had to talk to that person to get my dad on the line. I didn't have my dad's direct number. And he had actually he actually passed away a year or two after that. I didn't have a good connection with him. I my grieving process for him is different than my mom. And I constantly have to find myself remembering that I can't just pick up my phone and talk to her. I can't just do all these things, and there's so many things, good things have happened since she's been gone. Bad things too, but I would I would prefer my mom and I have this relationship of she was a cheerleader for me. She was somebody who was very good at. Again, she wasn't the most intelligent person, but but she was very good at wanting to be there, be present, be active, very cheerleader. I had I had to talk to people, I'm gonna kind of backtrack. I had to talk to people that I didn't necessarily think that I'd have to talk to that had abused me in the past, so that my dad could talk to my mom one last time. Because I knew that's what she was waiting on the night that she passed, was to hear from him. And so that was other things that I didn't factor in. That I and I'm that person, I'm gonna I want to give her the best.

SPEAKER_02 33:12

A little bit. Yeah.

Sarah 33:13

Yeah, like at the end, I had to put aside my trauma and these things so that she can say goodbye to the family members that I may not have had a good relationship with and that I was really hurt from. And she got that. And I'm hoping and I'm praying, and of course, obviously I can't ask now, like, hey, was your send-off great? You know what I mean? Like, did I do everything that you want? I can only hope that I met her needs. I know the biggest struggle for me was the cremation versus burial. One, because I'm gonna be paying for it, right? And two, she was very religious, so she really wanted a burial, she wanted to, you know, certain things. And I had to explain to her that that her beneficiary, like what she had opted into when it came to having life insurance, did not cover the cost of that, and that it would come out of my everybody else's pocket, and that it would be cheaper to cremate her. And we had to have that conversation. What do we want to do? I wanted to respect her wishes, but I also wanted her to realize like you're gonna be gone. We're gonna have to handle this. What do we want to do? Fortunately, she agreed to be cremated and different processes.

Crystal 34:28

So And you got to take her home.

Sarah 34:30

Got to take her home. She's here in the studio, she's listening all the time. And I do get to tell her, I can't speak to her because she's physically here in a box. Yes, you know what I mean? Like, because I can I can tell her all the compliment accomplishments that happened. I can I can do all these things, but there's times where I'm like, dang, I really wish I could just call her up and be like, man, this is what happened and this is what I feel like. Because a lot of times she's gonna tell me that I did great and things are great, right? But at the same time, you miss that back and forth banter, right?

Crystal 35:05

Of like them, like her telling you, like, oh, you did great, but then making you realize, oh, maybe I did mess up a little bit there. Right. Maybe I was acting a little crazy, right?

Sarah 35:14

And and that's too. She'll be like, oh, you know, maybe you shouldn't have done that, or oh Sarah, blah, blah, blah. Like, and they're just things you want to hear their voice. And fortunately for me, like I had the wherewithal when she was having, she called me to let me know that she was being transferred from the hospital to a hospice home. And I let it go to voicemail because I was like, I want to have something to listen back to when she's gone. And I might actually attach it at the end of this. I don't know. I haven't decided yet. But so that I can have something to listen back to so I don't forget her voice. And I have it saved on like multiple different ways, like in the cloud, on this, on that, and so on and so forth, so it doesn't get lost. If if if things go away, she's still there. And I know people probably listening that know me are like, and know my story and under they don't understand the growth and the things that I have been through for me to have the relationship I have with my mom. A lot of people would look at some of the things we had gone through and be like, I wouldn't have a relationship with her. There's things again, I keep them. I know I've mentioned for like the 13th millionth time that she had intellectual issues. I do think that she had she didn't finish college, school. She didn't finish high school, she didn't even start high school, I don't think. I think she dropped out even before high school. So there were learning deficits mixed with early CPS issues and all these different things that factor in when it comes to understanding somebody's life. Anyways, these things come back, they flood back, they come in ebbs and flows, and life comes and goes. So there's times on which she's she's here, there's other times I'm glad she's not, because I know the life she lived, and she had been struggling there towards the end. So I'm hoping that she's happy. She's with if she if her beliefs are accurate, she's where she needs to be in the afterlife. You know what I mean? Like I'm not discrediting anybody else's religion and what you believe, but on her beliefs, I'm I'm hoping it is You're just hoping that she made it to where she wanted to go. Yeah, and I believe she did.

Crystal 37:32

What would you want to say to her though?

Sarah 37:34

What do I want to say? Time has passed. It hasn't been easy. It hasn't been the nicest thing to deal with. Mainly because I can't just call you up, tell you about the good times, tell you about the bad times. I do want to say that I do miss you. I do love you. I don't fault you for a lot of the things you may have left thinking I fault you for, but I don't disregard what had happened in life either. There was accountability on your part of the trauma and my part too. And I'm not saying it in a victim way. There's been things that have been said and done and life happens. But I know in the end that the love, the appreciation, the understanding was there. We tried to heal the best we can, and unfortunately we just didn't have the time I wish we had. And that's a wrap. We're gonna work out.

Crystal 38:42

So what about you? So mine would be my ex-husband. Yeah, it's a shocker for sure, because nobody would think when you hear ex-husband, that somebody you would miss. I mean, you had a life again together, you have a lot of history. Yeah. Since I was like 15. He was my best friend. I think he died being still my best friend. And I think the grief part still sets in even after all this time. He's been gone almost three years. Yeah, and it's still hard because it wasn't I think I was already grieving him before he was gone. Yeah. He was a drug abuser, he used drugs. That's how he became my ex-husband. I just couldn't do it anymore. You know, him and he was an amazing husband. He was an amazing father. But drugs is like a terrible disease, it completely changes the person from who they used to be. They're no longer that person. It's still under there, like you'd get glimpses of him, but it wasn't him anymore. Right. So I think I was already like already almost over the whole thing because I expected it to happen. I knew I knew that's where it was going. Yeah. Like I grieved the person he was. And then I already knew and expected that this is where it was going.

Sarah 40:05

Right.

Crystal 40:06

And then so when he did pass, I was just like, oh, I knew it. Like I knew that this was gonna happen. It was just like waiting for the phone call to happen.

Sarah 40:14

Right. Like you just wait for the phone call because that's honestly I had the same with my mom because her health issues were up and down for a long time. I almost lost her in 2020. Or sorry, 2013, the first time.

Crystal 40:26

So you just kind of just expect it, like you just wait for the call. And then when I did get the call, I was like, oh, I I guess maybe I felt relieved because it wasn't like they're not struggling anymore.

Sarah 40:36

There's it's like there's a sense of relief, not in the sense of like, oh yeah, they're gone, I don't have to deal with it, but it's like I'm glad that they're not having to deal with it anymore because I'm sure this is not what he wanted.

Crystal 40:49

Right. And it just it gets a hold of you and then it just doesn't let you go. No matter how hard you try. Some people just can't escape it. Sometimes it takes its claws too deep, and you're just there's nothing you can do.

Sarah 41:03

Exactly. And you had to put those boundaries up in place too.

Crystal 41:07

Yep. And I had to be strong mentally and physically for my children because they needed that person, they needed that role of the person who's gonna be like, oh, everything's fine, it's great. And then behind closed doors, I kind of get upset, but it's not like it wasn't that upsetting when it happened.

Sarah 41:28

Right. No, but you still get those ebb and flows of anger, frustration, and like, why did you have to Well, I was mad, like I was pissed at the end of the day. Why did you choose this over your own life?

Crystal 41:41

Other people, like, how could you do this? I was angry. Yep. And I think I'm still pissed off. I am still pissed off, but it didn't actually hit until we did his funeral, and then it still didn't hit because I had my kids, I had all these other people, I was like being strong for my kids, like I was just like do-do-do-do. But when we went to leave the funeral, um I was the last to leave because I didn't want to leave him. I didn't want to leave him there. I wanted to take him home. Yeah. Because he was my best friend. And it was so hard because I've spent my entire life with him, it seems like.

Sarah 42:23

And you started a life with him.

Crystal 42:26

I don't think I processed it fully. No, and that's okay. Because I feel like I can't. Because he's my ex-husband. And I feel like I can't grieve and cry about it. Like I, you know, obviously I can't with my kids. I can't with his mom because I can only imagine how she feels. I can't with his aunt because his aunt had also lost her son to the same disease.

Sarah 42:52

And I feel like I can't. What if they feel the same way? What if they feel that they can't come to you either because you had already pulled yourself to the bigger?

Crystal 43:02

Well, they have, but I I've been I've been like the you know, like the strong one, like, oh, you know, and I listen to them and you know, I grieve them as well. I grieve Chris, which was his name.

Sarah 43:13

I grieve him as well, but like it's when that it's when the darkness he's my ex-husband.

Crystal 43:21

I can't grieve to my now husband about my ex-husband. Right. Because I don't want to make him feel awkward. Yeah. Because I feel like that would be an awkward situation to feel like your ex, you know, you're grieving about your ex to your husband.

Sarah 43:41

It's it's uh one, it's a different maturity level between people and figuring out how to respond. Just like you're having a hard time, you're you're pull it putting up that like strong person, listening and being the intuitive person, whereas they are using you as the event and you're just kind of letting it go, but when you close for the day, you're holding all of the stuff that they've given you and reprocessing everything.

SPEAKER_02 44:10

And people don't see my what I already have that I'm just kind of hacking inside.

Sarah 44:17

Right, exactly. So you haven't had the chance to really fully discuss it. One, because like you said, it is harder to discuss with everyone around you because everything he they play different roles. He played a different role. He was their child, their niece, I'm sorry, nephew.

Crystal 44:35

And I feel like I'm just the ex-wife, you know, so I feel like who am I to like You're the you're also but I am also you know it's not like I'm not saying you know they're still the family.

Sarah 44:48

They're still Yeah they're still there. They're still they're still you know doing that. You're grieving you're grieving in two different processes. One process being the person you used to know. And I'm grieving my brother like that. He is he's still alive but I am grieving the person he used to be what we knew the positives the great things that we had together.

Crystal 45:11

Or like new things that I find out and I want to tell him and I can't tell him. Right. I mean I do I talk to him all the time but mostly when I'm mad and that's fine. Or then if I can't find something I automatically blame him for it. I'm like if I can't find something I'm like damn it where'd you do with my shit you moved it and you messed up because that was his thing. He liked to hide things from me and make me feel crazy. Like that was his thing. He loved to move things around and make me feel like I'm losing my mind.

Sarah 45:41

And so if there is an afterlife and there are ghosts and you do believe in those things then he maybe he is maybe well I I fully believe it because we were we were picking fun at your mom. That's true.

Crystal 45:53

And then our equipment went haywire and I was like oh I'm sorry mom. I'm so sorry.

Sarah 45:58

As as well as the glitch and matrix episode just somehow disappearing as well.

SPEAKER_02 46:04

So we stopped talking bad about mama up there on that shelf.

Sarah 46:09

Yeah we sigma sorry um but yeah so everybody grieves different the process is gonna come and go as life progresses and mine's only three years fresh yours is three years fresh and again compounding grief like I my dog passed away last I actually grieved him worse than I did my mom and that's because it was so close into grieved gypsy worse than I probably did him.

Crystal 46:37

But I think at the same time hers isn't as strong as it was for him like mine goes up and down.

Sarah 46:43

Like I still well I think it's also too like again what we talked about that towards the beginning of the episode is that it compiles the more death you experience could be the harder it is for you. And or sometimes you depending on the person like me it it hits heavier the more people die that are close to me. There's people I see celebrities have passed away and I'm like oh man that sucks. And I used to get more emotional about it but now I mean it's part of life oh no that person died. Oh no like it's not that you know we don't care. It's that it's a part of life and when it's close to you those things can compile and how you grieve the next one that happens could be more intense than before or you might be like I've been through this before. So these are the things that help me. You know what I mean or it's well they were getting sick or you know whatever excuses are. Like you just you already knew it was coming. Exactly.

Crystal 47:36

It's kind of like with him like I already expected it.

Sarah 47:38

But I think what I would tell him though you dumb son of a No Jesus what would you yeah exactly what would you tell him?

Crystal 47:49

Did I miss him? And I wish he was still here to watch his girls grow up watch my son grow up he claimed my son is his just be able to be here and still I wish you could have helped him with his demons a little better. And I tried though I tried so hard but I just I mentally and physically couldn't I couldn't do it. And and that's and I feel guilty for it.

Sarah 48:16

It's unfortunate and that's part of it.

Crystal 48:18

That's part of the I wish I would have known how bad it was I wish that he didn't leave thinking I hated him. Right. I hope he knows that like I did the best I could exactly and that's all you can do. Yeah yeah grief doesn't mean someone is weak. It means someone loved deeply and when someone we love dies the relationship doesn't completely disappear it changes but the connection remains in the memories the stories and the impact that person had on our lives grief exists because love existed first.

Sarah 48:53

And even when someone is gone the love we share with them continues to shape the lives we live so with that take time to grieve take time to feel the emotions that come with it and know that it's a process and know that it's gonna take time that there are going to be days where it's worse than the other you're gonna feel more intense you're gonna feel days where you're maybe not you're numb to it all so take the time don't treat it like a don't treat it like a checklist. Yeah exactly it's it's not just a passing thought give yourself time and if that means taking a time go to the bathroom stepping outside going for a little walk doing something and if you feel like you can't talk to people close to you right now maybe because they're in a different part of grieving or they are not understanding because they don't understand why you haven't gotten over it yet quote unquote then take that time for yourself. And for those that do have that mentality or maybe not have lost somebody so close to them that they don't understand that this is going to take time and sometimes years upon years. Some people die still grieving people that they have loved I feel like you don't ever actually get over the grief.

Crystal 50:15

I don't think it ever disappears. I think eventually it gets easier over time but it doesn't ever go away. Like you're still gonna always miss that person.

Sarah 50:23

You're always gonna miss there's gonna be smells that pop up even if you even if you have I'm gonna tell you even if you have like Alzheimer's or something like that or dementia some those memories will come back. Even yes smells music everything like we said there's things that are just going to bring it back and you can try your best if you feel frustrated feel the frustration. If you feel grief or guilt I mean then feel the guilt.

Crystal 50:55

If you just if it gives you makes you happy you use that happiness you know yes sometimes sometimes so it feels like they're giving us little little bits you know depending on what you believe in. But sometimes when I feel like I'm the I had a cardinal land on me.

Sarah 51:10

Oh you did a cardinal bird land on my shoulder and that's a real sign if you're into that kind of thing of good luck or someone from the beyond trying to talk to you. And you were really stressed out that day I was it was a stressful day and it was weird. I tried to get my phone out to get something but they left too fast. Too fast. So they only had so much time. Plus it was probably like what it was happening. Why did I do this? Why did I do this? I don't like people I am not social but no take time sit in the emotions grieve the way you need to do not let people force their timelines on you and seek to talk to somebody if it can't be somebody person to person do it to count with a counselor a therapist religious you can even do it in a journal exactly diary. There's different ways of giving yourself that therapy it's okay to grieve relationships that may also seem like like you like yours your it's your ex you know it's okay to grieve relationships that may have been considered like taboo in a way to other people I mean yeah but every person matters every person is gonna have somebody that's grieving for them that cared about them even if you don't think so. So take that time do that self-reflection take take what you need from this and move as forward as you can at your own pace. Exactly at your own pace and that's important is understanding your body your feelings and trying to give yourself grace because it's it's a huge process.

SPEAKER_00 52:54

So we wanted to say thank you guys for listening thank you for being vulnerable thank you for listening as far as you do and listening to us ramble because it's not easy I thought we were pretty entertaining so yeah well we'll guess we'll see thank you guys thank you and please we appreciate y'all we do appreciate you thank you for coming back and we really hope that this episode serves you in the way you needed it to need to be served okay bye bye thank you for listening please like and subscribe please follow us on social media I just don't need to okay hey Sam that's Bob today Sunday and I'll let you know that there's something up me well that you did thank you toast the truth with poisoned why make wrong feel beautifully divine your halo slips but do it the sinner's grin on borrowed time