Finding You Again After Losing Yourself

You are a whole person outside of this role. It's time to start living like it.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome back to the Step Parenting Network, the community that is solely focused on helping step parents feel seen, appreciated, and becoming the best version of themselves in and outside of this role. My name is Lena Schein, and on this episode, I have here with me Imani Von Jones.

SPEAKER_00 0:26

Imani Von Jones is an award-winning writer, producer, and actress based in Atlanta. Her writing has earned recognition from institutions like Kenny Leon's True Colors Theater and festivals such as Fastigious LA. And her robust acting career has spanned everything from starring in national ad spots with Sprite and Ford to a recurring role on the nation's most watched network, NBC. Outside of entertainment, she operates also Imani, a digital lifestyle space where she shares recipes, reflections, advice, and insight into the beautiful mess of blending families.

SPEAKER_01 1:11

Hi, Imani, and welcome to the Step Parenting Network. Thank you. Happy to be here. Awesome. So glad you're here. I'm so glad. I'm looking forward to our conversation today. Um, I've been listening and watching for a while now, and I thought it's high time I have you on this podcast. And so welcome.

SPEAKER_02 1:34

Thank you. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 1:36

Yeah, so um I'm interested in knowing a little bit about your journey. I know that you're an actress, you're a producer, you're a very busy woman, and then you're a stepmom as well. So that's adding a lot.

SPEAKER_02 1:52

Yeah, definitely. It definitely does. I I don't sleep a whole lot.

SPEAKER_01 1:59

Tell me, how has it been for you?

SPEAKER_02 2:02

Um, you know, it's been it's been all over the place, you know. I think um one of the things that has been kind of what is even the word? One of the craziest things for me about being a stepmom and then also being uh kind of like a driven career woman is that uh my life, I always say like I feel like I'm Hannah Montana a little bit. Like I feel like I have two different lives, uh, especially because uh our parenting plan is half on, half off. So we have them one week and then we don't have them the next week. And those weeks are so different. Um yeah, it's it's I don't even know. I don't even know how to describe it sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 2:52

A lot of times, um, self-driven women or ambitious women are the ones that really suffer a lot in blended families because we're the type and I'm the same. And so we're the type that before becoming the step parents, we were so like all about our career and moving forward and advancing and progress, and we control things and our environment. And then you you enter a blended family and you realize that it's almost like the opposite of what you used to do. Now you have to kind of change and adjust so much about you and how you do things just to accommodate um the new or blended family.

SPEAKER_02 3:34

Yeah, so much, so much changes. You know, I told my husband, like when we first got together, I was like, you know, before we moved in together, I lived in my own house. I owned my house. It was very girly, very feminine. I painted my living room pink. Like it was it was girl world. Yeah. I was like, not only do I no longer live in girl world, but I'm like, I have three roommates now. Like, yes, it's just a completely different type of existence. And even the things that you um prepared for, you were like, oh yeah, this is gonna be different, end up being far more different than you expected them to be.

SPEAKER_01 4:12

Oh, yes. Whatever idea or vision you had, a mental picture you had of what your blended family could or would look like is definitely different from what it actually is.

SPEAKER_02 4:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:24

And then there are seasons as well in step parenting.

SPEAKER_02 4:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 4:29

So it may look like something right now, and later down the line, it looks totally different.

SPEAKER_02 4:36

Yes. And that is something I talk about a lot in my content, right? Is this idea of like just never being too precious, honestly, just kind of learning to live in the moment, live in the present as a step parent, because um you can have a really great day or a really great week, and then the next week you have them, it's like we're back at zero, you know? So you you really can't ever get too attached.

SPEAKER_01 5:02

Yeah, yeah, it's very true. Um, the something I've also been thinking about lately, uh, the cost, what it costs stepparents. And I would, since we're both stepmoms, I would say what it costs stepmoms to be in a blended family. Um what do you think is the cost for some stepmoms or for most stepmoms in a blended family?

SPEAKER_02 5:30

You know, I think that stepmothering will it will take everything if you let it. Like at some point, you have to decide I'm not paying it anymore. Like the cost is too high. Um, because I would say that at my lowest, which is the moment when I decided to start talking about step-parenting online, um, it had taken almost everything from me. Um, it had taken a sense of security, right? I don't feel safe in my home, I don't feel secure in my home. Um, it obviously you're constantly sharing your husband, right? Because he has these other obligations. Um it had cost me a lot of my uh self-esteem, right? My self-worth, because I have, you know, these people in my house, my stepkids, who for reasons outside of their control, don't fully respect me or don't fully see me as like a valuable human being, a human being that deserves, you know, basic decency. Um, and that's because they've been told to treat me that way. But regardless of, you know, I can logic it in my head why it's happening. That doesn't change the fact that it hurts. You know, you're like, I'm over here trying to be an asset to you, trying to be uh helpful to you. Um, I take it very seriously that I'm an adult in your life shaping your childhood, and you want nothing to do with me, that hurts. So it really can take everything from you. Um, and that was kind of part of why I was like, I have to start talking about this and I have to start finding my way back to myself because I I'm not willing to pay it anymore. I'm not willing to feel like an outsider in the safe space that I have tried to build over here. I'm not willing to feel like my career isn't important because I keep putting my job on the back burner so I can show up and be here for the kids, but then the kids don't even want me in the first place. Like it'll it'll take everything from you if you're not careful.

SPEAKER_01 7:34

And you might not even arrive at where you think you want to arrive while paying the cost for it and letting you yourself slide and your goals slide. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:47

You know, the journey back to you, I feel like is one of the most beautiful journeys because once you take that step back to you, it changes something in your mind. You become the forefront, you become important to you in a way that no one else can take away from you again. So I've had the similar journey of being soaked in and just being bottled up with step parenting, and I have my stepkids full-time. So you can imagine what that looks like.

SPEAKER_03 8:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:23

Um, and so I decided at some point that I'm going to focus on me. And I saw myself diminishing and vanishing. And I said, No, I can't do this. I owe it to myself to actually show up for myself, and I owe it to them to also see what it looks like when a full present adult who enjoys their life is in their lives. And I owe it to my husband to be the woman that he married, yeah, and to evolve together and grow together. And they're always going to be there, but actually, they benefit from me evolving and becoming a better version of myself, and then me just diminishing in a role that they may or may or may not ever recognize me as their step, as their other parent or another adult in their life.

SPEAKER_02 9:16

Yeah. So and that is such a good point about like showing up, enjoying your life, being joyful, that is really helpful to them, whether they recognize it or not. Um one of the things that I was aware of when we got married is I was just like, oh, you know, these kids have never seen like a functional, healthy relationship before. Um, their parents' relationship was quite dysfunctional. And so that was something I was really excited to be able to model for them and my husband too. He was so excited that we could model for them what like a healthy, loving um relationship looks like. But one of the things that I hadn't considered until I really saw like myself fading away is I'm like, they also really haven't seen very much what like just like happy adults look like. Like, what does it look like when an adult enjoys their life? And that's something I'm able, like I've always been able to advocate for it on my husband's behalf. Like, hey, you don't have to struggle so hard. They deserve to have a happy dad, but I'd never considered like they deserve to have a happy stepmom too. They deserve to see that like all of it can be good.

SPEAKER_01 10:31

Yes. And you know, um I believe I've never been a step, I'm I'm not a stepchild, but I believe that when you evolve and be yourself and blossom in your own life, even outside of this role, they actually would want to be friends with you because you being the um consumed by stepmotherhood doesn't even make you attractive to be their friend or for them to want to be with you because you're not happy or glowing. I don't know, I'm not probably not putting the right words, but once you're in your element, once you're excited about life, even your friends or people around you notice and you become instantly attractive. And I think that they also begin to see it. And if let's say you're someone who is into fashion, and so you start to get yourself back together, wearing the close that you love and having a good time doing that, they'll be watching you and they realize, hmm, I guess she has a cool fashion sense. I like that about her. And before you realize they actually want to be friends with you because they can learn a thing or two. Yeah. Yep. Um, I know society lately has been talking a lot about men not being good or like toxic masculinity. And I'm not diminishing that there's some people out there, some men out there that are just bad. But I think also being a stepmom, there's been an eye-opener to the silent suffering that men sometimes go through. Have you had uh do you have an idea of what I'm talking about, or do you have any experience like that?

SPEAKER_02 12:20

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I think you know, everybody thinks their husband is one of the good ones. So I I hate to sound like a cliche, but I'm like, he my husband is legitimately such an incredible human being. Like it's not even about, oh, he's a good man. He's a good person, a really good person. And it has been heartbreaking sometimes to witness how much, for example, our legal system does not care about men when it comes to um like custody and childcare. Uh, and my husband wants his kids, very, very much so wants his kids. Um, and so just seeing like ways, and I'm trying to I'm trying to be real diplomatic here because I know that some people might be watching. But I'll just say it's been really heartbreaking seeing how the legal system can be easily weaponized against men, even men who are showing up, uh doing more than what's asked of them legally, doing more than what's expected of them. Um that's been really heartbreaking to see. And then also seeing how do I say this? Mothers have a lot of power, right? Like mothers have a lot of power. That's why we, you know, the mother sets the tone for a child's belief system, for their values, uh, for how they approach the world. And I think oftentimes mothers who have been divorced, I'm a child of divorce, so that's why I'm like, I can speak from experience on this one. Uh, you can't help almost but side with your mother because you're like, that's my mama. Like, what do you mean? Yeah. Uh and so it has also been at times frustrating, at times heartbreaking to see how my husband, even though he is their parent, right? They share them 50-50, they have both of their DNA 50. Like that child is just as much his as it is hers. Um, but you can see that there's certain modes of thinking that have been put in there that he for some reason doesn't have the power to undo because he's he's their father, he's not their mother, and you know, what mom says kind of goes.

SPEAKER_01 14:48

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think there's a lot of emotional bonding as well that um happens between a mother and a child. And women are also very good at nurturing, and it could be used negatively and positively as well, where you're able to pour into a child. And that's why I've come to realize you have to be extremely careful who you have a child with, because that can make or break your life and even who that child becomes.

SPEAKER_02 15:22

Yeah. Yes. And I will say that's, you know, I've always known. So I've actually been married once before. Um, and we did not have any children, even though I want kids, because I knew. I knew I was like, if I have a child with this man, I'll just be raising two children, like him and the baby. Um, so I've always known like you have to be careful who you partner with because of what is the parenting situation going to look like. Um, something that I've learned since becoming a step parent is you also have to be careful who you have children with because that is 50% of their input or more, right? Because if it's the mother, she might be really architecting um, you know, everything. And it's like, do you like who this person is? Because there's a chance this is who your child is going to be. Yes. And so that like really that's that's really trying to change everything. Like when I have friends come to me about relationship advice and da-da-da-da-da-and and da-da-da-da. I'm like, girl, would you want to make another one of him? Because that is there's a chance that's what you'll do. And if the answer is no, then yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:32

That's very true. I feel like the uh the perspective changes a lot when you're when you become a step parent, because you get to see things that you probably wouldn't see in the traditional family dynamic.

SPEAKER_02 16:48

Yeah, you definitely I sometimes feel like I'm like a like a an anthropologist or sociologist, right? I'm just like observing family dynamics, observing psychology at work, and I'm like, wow, this is fascinating. It's definitely something that I can put in my back pocket. I do hope to have children of my own one day, and so I'm like taking notes about saying what works, what doesn't work, uh how I'd like to approach things. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:18

Yeah. Is there anything that you're afraid of in step parenting or as a step parent? Or as like in a blended in your blended family.

SPEAKER_02 17:34

Um you know, I try really hard to like live my everyday life without fear. So there's nothing that I'm doing, you know, to try and avoid a certain situation. But of course, I think all people, especially if you're in a high conflict situation, you have like a background fear, right? About your life being disrupted because somebody didn't get their way. So I have the fears of like, for example, I uh I actually have a video that's up right now talking about how um early on in my step-parenting journey, we were all at a soccer game. Myself, my husband, the kids, um, their mom, we were all there. Um, and our daughter, super affectionate, she's so sweet, she loves everybody, and she likes to sit on people's laps, but not like any random person, right? She sits in her mom's lap, she sits on her dad's lap. At this soccer game, she sat on my lap. Um that like that evening or the next day, I got an email.

SPEAKER_01 18:45

Oh, a whole email.

SPEAKER_02 18:47

A whole email, which I've never given her my email, so I don't know how she got it. But she got an email um telling me that she's not allowed to sit on laps and that if she sits on my lap again, I am violating her bodily autonomy. And I was like, Well if she sits on your lap, not if you even if you ask her to sit on your lap, if she sits on my lap again, that's violating her autonomy. Which I'm like, autonomy means you chose to do it, so that's not true. But regardless, uh regardless. Um now, mind you, this was news to me and my husband. My husband, who they're his kids, he raises them. Um he, while they were married, and since they've been split, that's never been a rule that was instituted that the kids can't sit on a trusted adult, right? Of course you can't sit on a stranger, but I'm your stepmom. Um, so news to both of us that this was not allowed. And then the next time they came over to our house, um, she had like climbed in my lap just of her own volition, and her brother pulled her out and was like, remember, we can't sit in laps.

SPEAKER_01 19:59

And so So the conversation has been had in the house about sitting on laps.

SPEAKER_02 20:08

And that moment was really difficult for me. One, because I perceived it as being something done in retaliation, right? I'm like, interesting that this rule now exists the moment you saw her sit on my lap. So it felt to me like it had just been invented to retaliate against me. But also the weaponized language in there, right? Like you're violating her autonomy, those are really strong words. And those are words that mean things in courtrooms. And so that's the type of stuff where I'm like, this idea of like being not just painted as a villain, but like painted as something dangerous when all I'm trying to do is literally make the children's lives better. That's the type of fear that, like, yeah, that's in the background, but I have to learn to like, I can't let that control everything that I do because otherwise it will drive a wedge in our family, which is exactly what it's intended to do.

SPEAKER_01 21:05

So I hope you know that the the issue is not sitting on labs, it's sitting on your lap. And that's where the issue really is.

SPEAKER_02 21:16

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 21:18

Hmm. Yeah. And also having to experience stuff like that where words are being used, and also children are told certain things which affect their their reaction and their actions, you're constantly armed as a stepmom because you're responsible for protecting your heart from getting hurt, but also you have to be on the defensive because you don't know what's coming.

SPEAKER_02 21:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:49

Especially when they're coming home from the other, the other house.

SPEAKER_02 21:53

Yeah. And it really is a tightrope that you're constantly walking, right? You're like, I'm trying to protect myself, keep myself. Safe, but then if I get too guarded, then you're gonna feel that there's a wall, there's distance between us. Um and it's you know, in my situation, um, we have two very different states of relationship between the two kids. Um, our son, he and I are much more like cool aunt and nephew kind of type feeling, um, versus our daughter, like if it were allowed, you know, like she would be my daughter. You know, like that's how close we are relationally. Um, and so yeah, there's just so much, there's so much that's constantly being weighed, and so much that's constantly being measured, and just trying to meet the kids where they are and give them what they want. But then when you give them what they want, right, she's clearly craving some sort of closeness. Then we have an outside party that's trying to vanquish that.

SPEAKER_01 22:57

Yeah. And I think the ages also differ um in terms of how the relationship goes. So if they are younger, then obviously they would want to, it's easier to form bonds and relationships with them versus if they're older or maybe teenage years.

SPEAKER_02 23:15

Yeah, exactly that.

SPEAKER_01 23:19

Well, I have a story that I want to share with you here. Okay. And I get a lot of stories or some stories from step parents who sometimes they just want to share. Sometimes they're not even asking for help. They just want an outlet and for you to listen. And sometimes they want the advice. And this person is asking um for suggestions, or she just wants to make sure that she's not overstepping or doing anything bad, kind of like a check-in with herself. So I have a story here, I'll read it, and then we'll kind of dissect into it. Okay. All right. All right. So this story is from a stepmom, and she said, when I first became a stepmom, I thought two that two women who both loved the same little girl would at least be civil with each other. But my stepdaughter's mom decided from day one that I didn't exist. I've been in the same room as her for my for her daughter's birthday and and on a school event. And she looked straight through me like I did not exist. It hurt me at first, but now I've made my peace with it. Because if that's how she wanted, she wants it, I can't force a relationship with her. What I can seem to make peace with is how her choices keep bleeding into mine. I'm a I'm the vacation planner in our home, and I've always been. I do the research, I compare, and I build the itinerary and book everything for every vacation. Now we've been wanting to take a family trip, but the problem is that is getting mom's consent for her daughter to travel outside of the country. Two years of minimal co-parenting communication, and now we need her signature, and she's not forthcoming. I told my husband, let's book it anyway and plan a trip for the three of us, my daughter included. So that regardless of whether his daughter gets cleared or not, we can go. But if consent comes through, amazing. But my husband says no, he won't go if his daughter won't come, which I understand. But now I'm in the impossible position where I can't plan because of mom's silence, my husband won't budge, and I'm stuck. I'm considering taking the trip with my daughter only. Am I wrong for considering this? Mm-hmm. It's a lot to unpack.

SPEAKER_02 25:45

Yeah, there's a lot going on. There's a lot going on in there. Um, yeah, I think, you know, starting from top to bottom, I understand being frustrated that she doesn't want to talk to you or acknowledge you. I have a very similar situation. Um in the beginning, she told my husband point blank that she didn't want to meet me. Um, and so we didn't meet. Um, then at some point she changed her mind about that. Um, and so we met, and that wasn't great for us either, you know? And so now we are at this point where for the most part, if we are in the same space, she pretends that neither of us exist, my husband nor myself. Um yeah, which you know it's it's frustrating. Um if nothing else, it's frustrating. I'm frustrated about it on behalf of the kids, right? Like we all just want to do what's best for the children, and I think the children deserve a united front. So there's nothing wrong with being hurt by that, but we can't control other people. And so I think as long as you're willing to leave that door open within reason, um, you've done the best that you can do. Um, in my case, right, a couple of incredibly harmful things happened and now that door is closed. I'm like, I'm not interested in us trying that anymore because it's been made clear that we can't be civil or safe. So we're not gonna do that. Um so yeah, I totally get that. As for the the trip situation, I think that's really, really tricky. Um I completely understand why the husband doesn't want to take a trip without his daughter, he doesn't want to have her feel left out. I'd be interested to know what the custody plan looks like. Um because there are versions, right? Like if it's a 50-50 scenario, um it's really, it's really, really tough. I'm like, I could understand if you guys have like a 50-50 split and it's a week where you don't have the stepdaughter, I don't think that there's anything wrong to take a trip, especially if you find a way to make it feel balanced. So maybe the whole family takes like an in-state trip, therefore you don't have to get uh bio mom's permission. Um but I don't think that it's fair for the whole family to no longer ever enjoy international travel because of what's going on with the bio mom. Um that said, right, it's his prerogative. If he doesn't want his daughter to go, then she doesn't go. And so that gets me to the next point where I'm like, I don't think there's anything wrong. Hope this isn't controversial. I don't think there's anything wrong with you taking a trip with just your daughter. Like, first of all, the concept of a mother-daughter trip is not like new, you know, like people do that all the time. There are um families that I don't know, what's the opposite of a blended family? Like a traditional. Thank you. Uh there are traditional families where sometimes mom and the daughter just go off somewhere, or or dad and the son. Like that's a common thing. So I don't think there's anything wrong with suggesting that, especially because you get to have a say, right? Like you get to have a say in how the family works and how your relationship works. If your husband is not comfortable traveling um without his daughter, that's totally fine. But you're comfortable traveling with your daughter, and you guys have gotta try and find a way to meet in the middle where it's not just one half of the situation is calling all the shots, you know?

SPEAKER_01 29:28

Yeah. Yeah. I concerning the trip uh situation, they could definitely just plan a trip. It doesn't have to be out of the country, but mother-daughter trip, someplace that they both really have been wanting to go. And it's just they both of them are very interested in that place, and that's not the full like family trip. They can just go and do that so that in case they don't have the out-of-state or out-of-country trip, it doesn't really affect them because they still had a trip. But for, I mean, you can't force the husband to go on a trip he doesn't want to go to.

SPEAKER_02 30:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:06

Um, and so yeah. If the consent comes, great, you go. But if it doesn't come, my conversation would be probably with the husband. What are we going to do about it? Because sometimes in high conflict situations, there is a third party involved, like a mediator or um some an official of the court, someone is involved somewhere that can mediate for you or help to get the consent from mom. You can involve lawyer to give to her lawyer to get the consent and move on, or at least find out what her concerns are and answer her questions.

SPEAKER_02 30:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:54

I know she might be maybe nervous about the out-of-the-country trip and being so far away and what that would look like. But without the mom coming in to have this conversation, that conversation would never come up. And so, and her concerns will not be put to rest. And so, yeah, maybe mediation, but that is as a stepmom, you cannot call for mediation. I've never heard of that with the the mother of the child. So it would all like just be with the husband having to take that leap and get that done if he wants to.

SPEAKER_02 31:34

Well, yeah, and as it should be, by the way. I'm like, I don't think I hearing what their situation is, right? The fact that the bio mom doesn't like to acknowledge her, I don't think the stepmom should be involved in any of the communications with coordinating this with her. Um, it definitely should be between mom and dad. Um but yeah, I think it's really unfortunate. Uh, I'd also be interested to know how old the stepkid is. Um, because obviously if they're like six or seven, there's not very much that should really be shared with them about this. But I think if they're like a 15, 16, I think there's always this really tough balancing act with how honest do you be with the kids, you know? Yeah. Because you're like, I'm not trying to harm your relationship with your parents. Um, but also sometimes transparency is necessary so you can understand like why things do or don't happen. And so I think if the kid is older, it may be worth being like, we want to go, but we need your mom's permission, just so you know like what's going on here, and if the trip doesn't happen, or if you see um stepmom and her kid go somewhere, like you understand why, and that it's not like we're excluding you or anything like that.

SPEAKER_01 32:56

Right. Oh gosh, you said something that I uh about being honest. Do you think honesty is always the best policy when it comes to when it comes to this your you and your stepchild or a stepmom and a stepchild?

SPEAKER_02 33:14

I would not say always. I wouldn't say it's always the best policy. I also wouldn't say that I'm ever rooting for dishonesty. Um but I do think depending on their age, again, depending on their age, uh, sometimes honesty can be very useful. Um it's really again, I keep talking about this tightrope, but that's because that's what it feels, that's what like every aspect of stepmoming feels like, right? Is you're just trying to like walk the line of something. Um, you never want to tell them anything that makes them feel like you're talking bad about their parent. And sometimes telling them the truth sounds like you're talking bad about their parent. So you have to, right? You have to be judicious. You can't just say every single time, yeah, your mom did this, your mom called me that. Like that's not gonna help. But I think in is in situations like this, right, especially if the kid knows about the trip and is excited and now they're frustrated because they feel like a promise isn't being kept, that's a time where honesty is probably gonna be your best policy. Because otherwise, right, the way I see it, they're gonna have a negative emotion either way. And either that negative emotion is directed at you because you broke a promise, or it can be directed at their mom because their mom is holding up the trip. In a perfect world, there is no negative emotion because we get to go on the trip. But if it's one of those situations where it's like somebody's gotta fall on the grenade, I don't feel like falling on a grenade I didn't plant, you know, like I didn't do this.

SPEAKER_01 34:47

Yes, yes, especially when you also want to go. Yeah. I think that honesty sometimes is the best policy, but I think it should be handled delicately. Um, the kids' age matters a lot when it comes to this because their reasoning capacity for such a complex thing is probably may not be there. But I also think that we don't give kids the credit that is due to them because they've survived a divorce. They've seen complexity, they know difficult things to some degree. Um, I am of the viewpoint that you should to an extent let the child know of certain situations so that they're in they're aware of, like you said, it not being your fault. But for example, I've had conversations with my stepkids and let them know this is the hardest thing I've ever done. This is hard for me. Um, and I know it's hard for you too, because I'm this adult who is not related to you, looks nothing like you. We don't share a smile in terms of like the way we look, we just don't look the same, but we live together and you're you have to listen to me and you have to love me, and that can be very hard. And I did that in the well, not in the beginning, but at some point I had that conversation with them and my stepkids. One one is a teenager and one is he calls himself a preteen. So one is a preteen, and I I told them this is the hardest thing I've ever done, and I've done hard things, but this is hard because I want them to acknowledge that it's not easy for me as well, that truthfully we share something that we may not share the blood, but we share the complexity. It's complex for you, but it's also complex for me.

SPEAKER_02 36:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:46

And so then I ask them um, that's why we have to give each other grace. So give me some grace and I'll give you some grace. Because on the days when I'm really mad at you for doing something wrong that I didn't like, I want you to remember this is hard for me. And on the days that you act up and you probably do something, I want to remember that this is hard for you as well. And I think a lot of times adults mask the feeling or how complex it is because we want to be strong for the children. But if they can, if they can handle it depending on their emotional intelligence or even the kind of conversations that you have with them, I think it's okay for you to show them a little bit of humanness that you struggle to.

SPEAKER_02 37:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:39

And maybe that is even the thing that brings you together so that it's not this woman who's trying to take my mother's place, but this woman who is actually like trying to be there for me as we are both part of my my dad's life talking as a stepchild.

SPEAKER_02 37:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:00

So that's my take on it. I know not everyone would agree with me, but it has been a tremendous help in getting the children to understand where I'm coming from sometimes. And I tell them, I don't want to be the evil stepmom to you. So I don't want that at all. And then one of them or two of like at a point, whatever conversation we're having, or whatever day it is, one of them would say, Well, you're not, and the other person might say, Yeah, I agree. But it's letting them understand that it's just hard. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Oh, and then the the first part of her um story, where she talked about the contact um in the beginning, thinking that they would be friends or at least be cordial with e each other. Um, my take on it is well, depending on, I don't think that step moms should be in a hurry to be in communication with the mother of the children. And I say that because when you come in, I think a lot of step moms want this peace and quiet. We want to blend and belong, and we want everyone to know that we're not coming in to cause drama. And so we try our best to kind of engage and let the things settle where like let the things settle and not be any drama regarding us, but we don't know if the other person carries drama. And sometimes opening that door to communication can wreck your life and your step-parenting journey because now you've opened the door to communication and the person is texting you, and the mother of the child is texting you about every little thing, or even talking to you about your husband and things that he he does. And you don't want that opening. But I think that once you come in, perhaps as a new stepmom, don't be too keen on having that conversation or having a relationship first. Get to know how this person operates and you decide, just like you would with any other adult in your life, like with friends. You want to see if they have common values, if you guys would be able to work together before you even invite them into your life. And for me personally, that's a hard boundary.

SPEAKER_02 40:23

So yeah, that's so hard. I think you know uh, I think stepmoms, I think we always fall into this trap because I am of the opinion that stepmoms are usually pretty big-hearted people, right? Because you come into a situation, you're like, these aren't my kids, but I'm willing to love them, or at the very least, share space with them, right? Like, I think we can agree that living with children is like universally not something people are like, I can't wait to do that. So I think a lot of stepmoms are they're they're just big-hearted people. They're willing to make space for children. In a lot of cases, they're like, I'm I'm willing to raise these children, I'm willing to take them on as my own. And a lot of us end up like falling flat on our faces when we find out that bio mom wants nothing to do with that.

SPEAKER_01 41:15

Yeah. Yeah. You know, I've thought about this. Um, I do hope that maybe someone watching the show or someone who has been through like as a bio mom. I'm talking not someone who was is a step parent and a bio mom, but a bio mom would create a support group for bio moms or create a space for bio moms. Because I think a lot of high conflict relationships steer from a place of hurt, pain, and not healing. And if only they could just move on emotionally and be healed and whole from their experience and detachment, I think it will be it'll be better for a stepmom. So I'm still advocating for stepmoms in this respect. That yeah, I I hope by a mom's someone is is doing some creating a space for them to just go through the process of healing because I can imagine um how difficult it might be, especially if they're still in love with the the ex-husband, seeing him happy and having a full-blown family with another woman, and that's not you. But if they had healing then and have moved on, it's so much easier. And I've heard stories of um stepparents who have great relationships, stepmoms who have great relationships with the biomom, and you're even friends. For me personally, I couldn't do it. Um, that's just me because I feel like you've slept with my husband. Are we gonna be friends in Mani? Why? Like you slept with him? That's over. We can't. We're not gonna be friends, but that's just me. Oh my god. Yeah, it's weird, it's weird for me. So it's a no-no. But I see people who have done it, and actually what I just said is so funny, but that's so funny.

SPEAKER_02 43:12

That's so funny. No, I mean, I think in theory, I would love for that to be an option. I'd love, well, maybe not friends. I don't need us to let me think about that. You know, I don't know that I need us to like go get coffee together, you know, or do errands together. Although when I say that out loud, I'm like, oh, that sounds like a nice world. I love the idea of a world where that's an option. I'm not saying that we have to do it, but I love the idea of a world where I'm like, if someone were like, Oh, could you get coffee with your bio mom? I'd be like, Yeah, it'd be it'd be fine. Um But yeah, I don't live in that world. I don't live in that world. I don't live in a world where we can even, you know. Peacefully planned birthday parties together. And that's just frustrating. Again, I for me, I'm like the math seems so simple, right? And the math is what is in the best interest of the children. Regardless of how I feel, regardless of what my ego, my nervous system is doing, what is best for the kids. Um but not everybody is able to ask and answer that question.

SPEAKER_01 44:28

Yeah. Yeah. It's true. Especially when what is best for the kids is not best for them. Then they might selfishly choose what's best for them.

SPEAKER_03 44:42

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 44:44

You're right though. We do need like a support group for the bio moms because there's a lot of a lot of complicated stuff going on over there. And that's the difficulty again, as like being stepmoms, being big-hearted people. Uh I would never call myself an empath, but I'm a deeply empathetic person. And so I'm like, I could I could tell you what's probably going on over there, you know? Yeah. And I'm like, and I I understand that all of that is really hard and a lot to deal with, but you need to deal with it like for the sake of your children, for the sake of your future relationships, and for the sake of whatever our families are doing here together.

SPEAKER_01 45:28

Yeah. You're right. And um just the the fact that I even thought about, I was wondering as you were talking, why did I even think about a support group for them? But as you're saying, a lot of stepmoms truly don't have, don't come in with malice or an intent to destroy the bio mom's relationship with a child and take the child from bio mom and make their child their child and just like kind of remove biomom from the picture. I don't think a lot of stepparents come with stepmoms come with that idea. No, not at all. Yeah. But yeah, so to this um lady, maybe a conversation with her husband sh might be beneficial to say, okay, you don't want to go. So do I cancel it or what what are we going to do about it? Is there anything you can do to make this happen? And having that communication and seeing what the way forward is better than to just wait and be the one because right now it looks like she's the one who wants the trip and no one else wants it. So if you both don't want it and I want it and my daughter wants it, maybe I'm just gonna go with her.

SPEAKER_02 46:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:49

But that conversation definitely needs to be had.

SPEAKER_02 46:52

Yeah. And a conversation about what do we do in the future? Because you know, sometimes we don't know what to do in the moment because it's our first time encountering it, but it's like, okay, moving forward, are we saying that so long as stepkid is in the house, we will never travel internationally for the next number of years? Like, what is what does the future look like now?

SPEAKER_01 47:14

Yeah. And also, like, if we're going to postpone the trip to next year, what if the same thing happens again? Like, just let me know if I need to go to Paris by myself. Just let me know. But yeah, I hope this is beneficial to her. I like to have rapid fire questions with every guest that comes on. And so I have prepared seven questions for you. Rapid fire. Um just to put you in a hot seat just a little bit. But um I'll try.

SPEAKER_02 47:47

I'll try. I'm very thoughtful. I'm like, I'm afraid I'm not gonna answer quickly.

SPEAKER_01 47:52

No, well, yeah, they're not very well, they're rapid, but they're not too rapid because some of them require thought. So we're just gonna go ahead and are you ready? Let me know if you're ready.

SPEAKER_02 48:03

Yes, let's do it.

SPEAKER_01 48:05

All righty. So the first one is stepmom life, hardest job you've ever had, or best thing that happened to you?

SPEAKER_02 48:13

Oh, it's the hardest job I've ever had. The best thing that ever happened to me was my husband, but he also brought with him the hardest job I've ever had.

SPEAKER_01 48:20

I share that sentiment. I get it. All right, second one. Bio mom reaches out and wants to grab coffee. Yes or no?

SPEAKER_02 48:30

Uh, in this real, actual reality, the answer is no. I know that that's going to be a dangerous situation for me. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 48:40

Um, you see, it's it's easy. One word to describe your step-parenting journey. Go.

SPEAKER_02 48:52

Tumultuous?

SPEAKER_01 48:54

That's a good word.

SPEAKER_02 48:58

Why so? Um yeah, it's just it's been full of ups and downs. There were really high hopes in the beginning, then there was a great humbling. And then you make strides, you make progress, you're like, wait, okay, this isn't what I thought it was gonna be, but this is really great too. And then you get knocked back a few pegs. It really is just uh at this point. I'm like a piece of sea glass just getting tumbled by the waves.

SPEAKER_01 49:28

Yeah, you're gonna find your rhythm in Mani. I believe it. Thank you. I claim that. Yeah, I think you would. And I think that version of you is on the other side waiting for you. And it's going to be beautiful to see. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 49:44

I feel like I'm on my way there.

SPEAKER_01 49:46

I do. Yeah. And then once you get there, if anything else would come up, your the version, that new version of you will be able to handle it more with grace. And it will take you to another version and another version and another version. And you will become refined over the years. I really believe that.

SPEAKER_02 50:08

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 50:10

All right, so date night or solo night in. Which one do you actually need more right now?

SPEAKER_02 50:19

Oh, which one do I need? No, I probably need a date night. Yeah. Yeah, because I'm not doing nothing on that solo night. I'm gonna like be watching TV and eating junk. I need like a date night. I can actually like, I'll get cute, I'll be taken care of, we'll have a good time. That sounds good.

SPEAKER_01 50:45

Yeah. Have you ever hidden in a bathroom to get five minutes to yourself? Be honest.

SPEAKER_02 50:57

Only five minutes?

SPEAKER_01 50:58

Only five.

SPEAKER_02 51:05

Oh god, yes. The bathroom, my office, the laundry room, just sitting in the car. You know, you get home, you you park, you don't get out. Yes, definitely.

SPEAKER_01 51:19

You know, before I became a stepmom, I never really I heard like on the internet people talk about I don't understand why my mom comes back from home as a child and she just sits in the car for a minute. I get it now. Yeah, it's not even like that something bad happened in my house, it's just that I just need some time. And I can sit in and have a good time by myself in the car. And sometimes the car is hot, but I'm having a good time. So what does it matter?

unknown 51:49

Yup.

SPEAKER_01 51:51

Yup. Oh boy, I love that. Okay, so we all we all probably share that in common as step parents. Absolutely. Have you ever oh that I asked that question already? So uh the last but one, your partner's parenting, silent eye roll or loud conversation.

SPEAKER_02 52:12

Um I don't know if I fully understand that question. Wait, what do you mean?

SPEAKER_01 52:18

So when it comes to your partner's parenting, do you mostly do like eye roll at it or do you have a loud conversation if you don't agree with something?

SPEAKER_02 52:32

Um it's more of the latter, it's more of having a conversation than a silent eye roll for two reasons. One is that at the end of the day, like I still live with these people. And so if I see something that I'm like, I don't agree with that, um, I'm gonna talk about it because I'm like I need to live with people that like the right, there's certain like skills and and things that like as my roommate, I'm gonna need this kid to have. So that's one of them. But then the second thing is that, like I said, I want to have our own kids one day. And so sometimes I'm like, what's going on here? Like, because that's not how I would raise my kid. That's something that I don't agree with. Is that how you would raise our kid? Is this something you're doing right now because you legitimately believe in this, or is it because this is kind of left over from the way you and your ex parented? I need to know more about what's going on here.

SPEAKER_01 53:34

Yeah, and I think that I totally agree with you. Um, that is if if a lot of step parents, will be honest, I believe that is something a lot of people have thought about in terms of parenting. Because I've heard some of my friends who recently gave birth uh talk about the fact that they don't even always agree with their partner on how they're raising their child. If the baby's crying, one person thinks just leave the baby to cry and he'll stop. While the other is like, let's go get the baby and cuddle the baby or make the baby stop crying, and they just don't agree.

SPEAKER_02 54:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:12

And that in itself is difficult, but to add a layer of complexity when you become when you are in a step-parenting um dynamic where you're not really making the decision on how to parent, but then you're silently seeing it. And as a third person who mostly doesn't have like the you know, heart-shaped goggles on and it's my child, and you're seeing it, sometimes you can see things that the step parents, the actual biological parents don't see. And then you see the gaps and you want to help, and then you realize they're just doing things differently. And it calls in question if your spouse would do that with your child. And I think most of the time, I'm not trying to speak for them, but I think most of the time it's as a result of the way both of them had parented, and it's been a fall fallout of that. And so he's just trying to manage the situation um right now versus not actually wanting to parent that way. Because I believe that we parent differently based on who we're coupled with, and that he would parent differently with the his child's mom. But if you and him had a baby, it might be different because you're different.

SPEAKER_02 55:36

Absolutely. Absolutely. And that's one of the reasons why like sometimes I'm like, hold up, let's let's talk about what's going on here. Because you're absolutely right. You do parent completely differently based off of who you're partnered with. And I think it's especially true if you're a man, because again, like women, we have a level of influence that men just don't have simply by being the birth givers, right? Like that child lived inside of you, and then they were like basically attached to you for like two years outside the womb, too, if not more. So um, the mom really sets the tone for what like the culture of parenting is. And I'll say that like in my husband's previous marriage, the culture of parenting was one that was of like a lot of sacrifice and a lot of um protecting the children from any sort of like difficulty, challenge, harm, stuff like that. And there are benefits to that, but there are also some drawbacks. And one of the drawbacks, right, is that if you don't ever let kids fail, then they can't ever like learn how to do things. Because sometimes we learn through failure. We learn through trying something, being uncomfortable, being uneasy. Then we learn, oh, actually, this isn't that hard. We gain some self-confidence. Um, and so that's like, you know, sometimes we'll be in the house, and my husband will be like, he'll feel the urge to, oh, still let me cut up everything for you, let me prepare the things for you. And I'm like, they're nine and 13. I think they can prepare their own lunch. Let's just see what happens if we let them do that. And then they go make a lunch, and maybe it's messy, and then we, you know, teach them how to make better food choices, or maybe they surprise us and they make this incredible meal, and now we figure out that, oh, you might be into cooking, you might be into culinary stuff. So it's just things like that where it's like there's these there can be these huge differences.

SPEAKER_01 57:31

Yeah. When you don't let children fail or allow them to fail, they wouldn't learn to trust themselves. And personally, the way I want to parent, I want to parent in such a way that the children are confident in themselves. Like I would want to sometimes kick it back Friday night and you're you're cooking. And maybe we have music, but you're you're doing the cooking. I want to see how you do it, and I want to chat with you while maybe we're in the kitchen, but we're talking, but you're doing it, and we're just talking. But I want you to learn the live skills that someday when I'm not there, you would be able to have a full life without me.

SPEAKER_02 58:14

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 58:15

And that to me is something that's so important to me because I don't have my parents right now, but what they taught me has been incredible, and that's what I stand on today. So I come from that thought process, and so I totally get that. And we have that in common in terms of the way the children were brought up previously, and it's always a struggle because you know that you you want them to stand on their own at some point.

SPEAKER_02 58:43

Yeah. Well, because at the end of the day, they're not just children, right? You're raising human beings at some point. That's gonna be a person, and they're not gonna be under your roof, and they're gonna go live by themselves, they're gonna go live with roommates, they're gonna, you know, potentially get married one day. And God forbid, let me tell you, one of the last things I want to do is like send a person, a child of any gender, but especially a man, God forbid, my son is out there making someone's daughter miserable because he can't cook, he can't clean, he doesn't know how to take care of himself. I will have failed.

SPEAKER_01 59:20

Yeah. Yeah. And also, God forbid that they they've been cuddled so much that they can't go live by themselves because they don't know how to. Yeah, that's one of my fears. Yeah. What if they don't know how to and now I have to take care of them for the rest of my life? No, oh no, that's not in the plan.

SPEAKER_02 59:44

Absolutely not.

SPEAKER_01 59:45

Because after the season of like sacrifice of being a step parent, the joy in seeing, I don't know how people will take this, but the joy in seeing them go live their lives while you reclaim the years that you've not had one-on-one vacations or that like retirement season, that's what I'm calling it, for lack of a better word. But after they've grown and they're living their lives, and now you can up and leave and go to France for a vacation without having to consult Biomom, like the story. Yeah, that's the time for you to just live and enjoy without all the chaos. Yeah, but what if they want to say because they don't know how to go live their lives? That's a no-no.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:30

You're gonna have to learn.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:32

That's a hard no.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:35

Gosh, okay, that was number six, by the way. But I have a last question here. Okay. If being a stepmom was a movie genre, what will it be? I know you're an actress, so you got this down.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:51

Oh gosh. If it was, honestly, it really depends on the situation. Okay. You know, in the right now, being a stepmom for me is probably like uh what do they call them? Dramedies, right? It's got some comedy, it's got some last, it's also got some some sad stuff. Uh like last year, being a stepmom was a psychological horror.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:22

Oh Lord. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:29

Yeah. I wish, I wish I like we had known each other last year because maybe we could have shared in some of some of the things that we we probably were experiencing. Who knows? It could have been very similar.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:42

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:43

That would have helped a lot, honestly.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:48

Okay, I have a bonus question. Okay. Um, what has changed about you since you became a stepmom? Oh, geez.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:00

What has changed about me? Um, you know, I think I think there's a lot of stuff, and some things have changed, and then they've changed back, you know, in like terms of like rediscovering yourself, right? Losing yourself, coming back to yourself. But I think the number one, like kind of permanent overall change is that I have learned to be more present and more grateful because every single day is different, you know. Every single day I really have to wake up and see where are we today? What are we feeling today? And you already have like some layers of that just by nature of raising like a 13-year-old, right? Teenagers, God knows what they're gonna feel on the day-to-day basis, but you do have to couple that with the fact that they have no biological tie to me. Um, they've been instructed to kind of avoid becoming attached to me. Um, and then also they go somewhere else. Like half the time, they are somewhere else. I don't know what's going on in that house. I don't know what the moods are looking like, how they're being talked to, how they're being treated. All I know is that you come back to me and I have to just see who are you today? What are you feeling today? What do you want from me today? Um, so it really has taught me. I have become a person who does her best to just be in the moment. Um, and when the moment is good, I'm just drinking it in, soaking it up because nothing is guaranteed. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:45

Yeah. My mind keeps going back to um our conversation about finding yourself again. And for me, if there was anything I would tell any stepmom, it would be if they've lost themselves or they feel like they're drowning is to find themselves. Because a lot of people resent their stepchildren for being the reasons why they lost themselves in the process, like years down the line, I mean, when you've lived 15 years into step-parenting and you realize that you're different and you haven't done anything for yourself. And the question will be who did you do everything for? And who didn't appreciate it? And you realize that it's your stepchildren that you sacrificed and for, and then you start to resent them because you feel like they should love you more for what you did. And so if I were to end this conversation, I would say it's very important for us as stepparents to recognize truthfully, this is what I believe, that the children don't necessarily need to love you more for what you did because they didn't ask you to. You married their parent and you sacrificed for them. And so pour into yourself today so you don't resent them tomorrow for something that they shouldn't have done for you to fill your cup for you. You deserve to make yourself happy, and you cannot give that burden to your stepchildren or even your child, because a lot of times mothers tend to sacrifice everything for their child, and at the end of the day, they don't become, and especially for driven women who want to do something out in their lives and out of their lives, or want to achieve certain things. You don't want the situation where you find out you've poured and poured, and now you're nothing, and you look for someone else to blame for that. Yeah. So pouring into ourselves is incredibly important. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I enjoyed this conversation a great deal.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:06

Me too.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:08

I feel like we should definitely do it again. Oh my gosh, I'd love that.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:13

I'd love that. Let's do that.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:15

Conversations like this are so necessary, and our society needs this more and more. I created the step parenting network from a very, very intimate space, knowing that step parents need to be heard, seen, appreciated, and loved. If you're a step parent or someone in a blended family, I hope that you go ahead and subscribe, hit the like button. I'd love to have you as part of our community. It helps the algorithm as well to be able to share this with people, especially people who need this the most. So hit the like button, subscribe, make a comment, and share this with any stepmom or stepdad that you might think of because they might need this more than you know.