Episode 15| Why Your School Goals Aren't Working | The Edu20/20 Podcast

Welcome to the Edu20/20 Podcast, where we take the things everyone says we “have to do” in education and talk about whether they actually make sense.

This episode is all about goals and why they so often feel like a moving target. We break down why goals feel overwhelming (or unclear), what teachers actually need, and how simplifying your focus will lead to real results.

Chapters:
0:00 Why goals feel like a moving target
4:14 The real problem with unclear goals
7:20 What happens when you actually focus
11:42 Goals during new curriculum implementation
15:25 What leaders should do differently

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:12

Welcome to the Edu2020 podcast. Um, as Edu2020, we are a group of educators that support educators in simplifying education. And I am here with Shannon. My name is Courtney, and we are getting ready to dive into a very fun topic today. Shannon, tell us what our goal is for today. We're gonna talk about goals. Oh, you wanna talk about goals.

SPEAKER_02 0:37

Um, this is a topic that we get really passionate about.

SPEAKER_01 0:41

I feel like we should head on a trigger warning for people listening.

SPEAKER_02 0:44

We may already have a few eye rolls. I know if I were listening, if I were listening, I'd I'd be given a few eye rolls. I guarantee the bots on this video are gonna be eye rolls.

SPEAKER_01 0:55

Oh, I love when we get spicy bots. We do get videos. It's funny. It's a good time. So go check out any of the social media platforms and see if you can spot the bots. That's we're gonna have a we're gonna have a contest one day. Spot the bot. Spot the bots. Um, but yeah, so tell me, Shannon, when you when I say the word goal, let's do a word association game. Oh, that's scary. When I say the word goal, what do you think of? Shut up. No, I'm just kidding. That escalated real fast. But for real, what do you think of?

SPEAKER_02 1:21

Um, uh, when I was in the classroom, I would think of goals as these mysterious things that I had to somehow throw a bunch of of activities, task, effort at trying to hit. They felt random. Um that's what I think of. I think of moving target.

SPEAKER_01 1:37

Like that's literally. Oh, that's a good one. Moving target is what it feels like. We we loved we love some goals in education, don't we?

SPEAKER_02 1:44

Right. So, what are the point of goals? Why do we even need to be talking about goals and how should we be using goals? Those are some pretty loaded questions there.

SPEAKER_01 1:54

Did you throw them all at me at one time? I did.

SPEAKER_02 1:56

It's overwhelmed right now. Choose your own adventure.

SPEAKER_01 1:58

Well, first and foremost, I just recently came out of a school district. I'm not gonna shout out the name of them, but they're wonderful. And I kept seeing all over the school wall, like the walls of the school, they had like behavior, and it said wig, behavior wig, you know, attendance wig. And I'm like, why are we have like all this fake hair? And they're like, no, wig stands for a wildly important goal. So they've decided to kind of change it into a wig. So they have like different like attendance wigs, um, behavior wigs. So you can wear lots of wigs on your head, or you can, you know, have goals. But if it's one thing we love in education, it's goals. We have goals for lessons or or we have goals for student improvement goals, we have goals for subject matters, we have a lot of goals. And I think that that's why I thought moving target, because a lot of times as a teacher, you know, every meeting would start with, okay, so our short-term goal is this, our cluster cycle goal is this, our school goal is this. And a lot of times it was a number, and I don't know. Are you overwhelmed by goals? Because that sounds like a lot. Just a little bit. I mean, it would be a lot cooler if they would have called it a wildly important goal, at least, but it was on every agenda. It was on the wall, we put it everywhere, we said it all the time. But as a teacher for me, what did it mean? Because all I knew is that I was doing the best I could do every day with every kid. Yeah. You know, to my ability. And I was just hoping that I was gonna hit something at some point, some goal that they had out there.

SPEAKER_02 3:22

Well, and I think uh early on I had the opposite experience where in the beginning, in the beginning of my career, I don't really remember talking about goals very much. Just here are your standards, here are the textbooks, and go have fun. And so then, you know, life changed. I think we're talking about two ends of life changes here. Right. Life changes, education changes constantly.

SPEAKER_01 3:47

What is the one thing consistent in education?

SPEAKER_02 3:49

It's gonna change it's inconsistency. So I think we're talking about two different pain points, and we get to see these in education in in different schools because we're in a lot of different school districts, um, where sometimes we have way too many goals and we don't know what we're trying to do or change, or we're trying to focus on too much, or we don't have any real clear goals. For example, um, there was one school that I went in and I asked before I started in c instructional coaching with them, what are your school and improvement goals in ELA? And I was told written expression. What is that? And I'm like mean that's a great topic, but what's our goal for written expression? And so sometimes I think it's knowing where you are versus where you want to go and what's our target for getting there. Sometimes like goals are not clear at all. And this is where I see a lot of pain point. I if you scroll and you just search instructional coaching on TikTok, automatically what comes up?

SPEAKER_01 4:51

Goals. It's just you need a goal to to to instruct to coach your teachers toward. You need a goal. I see, I see a lot of people saying put them back in the classroom. Oh, you're talking about okay, so like what do you do with instructional coaches?

SPEAKER_02 5:04

Right. Um, and we get to see both sides of that. Like we've seen, we get to work with some phenomenal coaches that are actually making progress towards goals. And I think the teachers that work with those instructional coaches is vastly different from the ones who they're and they're trying to change a teacher.

SPEAKER_01 5:23

So you're talking about like a lot of times, like you jumped from instructional coaching with teaching, like we have instructional coaches have goals, and then teachers have goals, and then principals have there's just a lot of goals, and so like there's a lot of pain points with goals, and we want to talk through some solutions. Yeah. And so from a teacher standpoint, um, I can even speak for like what I figured out. I knew that there was a certain number we had to hit, but I had to think about, and I think this stands for instructional coaches as well. I had to think about what were the steps that were gonna get me toward that goal, not just the goal itself. That's good. So even with instructional coaching, because when we know we have different levels of educators listening or or watching today, but I think it it it's not just about the goal, it's about the action steps that move you toward the goal. That's brilliant. Thank you. No, that's it's so true. Um, because we we we do that as part of our um leadership training. If you've ever attended one of our leadership trainings, that's a shameless plug for our leadership institute. Um, we make sure that we don't just set the goals, but we break down the goals into actionable steps. Yeah. And I think that that's a difference maker because teachers, you give them a goal, they want to achieve it, they just don't know how.

SPEAKER_02 6:32

Right. I I was there. Um, I knew that I had to move my kids a certain amount, but I was like, there are so many variables in the classroom that you really have to I love what you said. You said it best. Like you have to have the action steps are almost more important than the goal. I mean, you have to have a North Star. You have to get have something that you're working toward, but what are the most important steps that we can take to get there? Because you can't change everything in the classroom. Um, and I can give a really good example of this. Um, I had a target that I had to meet one year for my level of effectiveness. I had to move uh a certain group of students, and it was a really challenging year, a group. Um, but I worked with my principal and I've shouted her out before, but we decided to focus on writing. Um we knew that uh we looked at the data, but we were like, we can't fix everything, but let's just start here. Let's focus on here are our action steps. We're gonna make sure kids know this, this, and this. And we're gonna keep looking at those data points. Not everything. We can't fix everything, but let's get really narrow and focused.

SPEAKER_01 7:35

And and one of the biggest growth years that I was a part of, we kept our goal very simple and everyone focused on the same thing. So a lot of times with goals, you are setting one for ELA, setting one for math, setting one for social studies. Depends on what you're required. Let's be honest, by the state that you're in or by the school district, or even by the school that you're in. Um, but we all focused one year on reading comprehension. And I know that seems so big. Every subject? Every subject focused on reading comprehension. And we implemented one reading comprehension strategy. And when I tell you they did it in ELA, science, social. I mean the kids were sick, they're like, We're gonna do this again. We're like, yes, you do. Because it was a it was a strategy that just made them slow down. Because I've said this before, you know, our kids don't read for fun anymore, they read to finish. And so even with a word problem, like having them chunk that and just slow down and think, what is this really asking me to do? What is it telling me? Um, we made them slow down and think through that. And because we only focused on reading comprehension, our school grew 11.7 points in one year.

SPEAKER_02 8:32

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 8:33

And it was because we all weren't focused on different stuff, we got really, really laser focused. And again, that depends on your requirements. A lot of times we're held by the ceilings that were that are put on us, right? But if you have the autonomy to choose, you know, what goals you can set in what areas, like I would make them as most closely aligned as possible and as laser focused as possible because that is where you'll get the movement. We specialize in simplifying education because everyone overcomplicates education. And with goals, that is one of the things that they overcomplicate. We've got to simplify and we've got to make it very clear on okay, because teachers, it's one thing that they cannot stand is lack of clarity. And if we have a goal and I'm just trying to aim for a number, that that's not clarity to me. I'm like, okay, great, I'm just gonna do the best. So true. And so, like, how do I get real clear? And I, if you're a leader listening right now, if you're gonna set a goal, you and your leadership team, your ILT, whatever you want to call it, ABCD, we get names for everything in education. Um, sit down with your leadership team and and talk about, you know, we have this goal this year. What are the action steps we're gonna take? And what are the things the teacher's gonna have to learn and be able to do as a result, you know, to get to this goal?

SPEAKER_02 9:42

Right.

SPEAKER_01 9:42

We got to get real clear on that.

SPEAKER_02 9:44

That's so true. And we've talked about before that really there are only two ways that teachers can impact a goal, and that's to build the teacher's knowledge and that's to build their skill. And we're always gonna go back to that. So if you've got a goal, you've got to break it down and know exactly what you just said. What do I know? What do I have to be able to do to hit this target? And I'm so interested in your example because as a teacher, that feels manageable to me. I'm not trying, I'm not being asked to do 20 different things, all these different initiatives. It's one strategy we're all gonna work on, and then we can look to see what results is that having in student work.

SPEAKER_01 10:24

Yeah, and everything was aligned. So that's another thing, the coherence of the learning in your teacher collaborations, that has to be aligned with your goal. And I'm I'm talking to leaders again. I know there's teachers listening, but it's it's really important. If you want to share this link with them, do so. But it's important that when you are in these PLCs, ABCs, you know, TCs, what are they called? Collaborative planning. Collaborative planning, that whatever you're doing there is moving teachers toward the goal. So when you have a goal and you're broken, you've broken it down into the skills a teacher needs, the knowledge a teacher needs, or even the skills and the knowledge your kids need, right? Think about how is your learning gonna be sequenced for the adults in the in the school, but also, you know, the kids. We have coherence. We use curriculum, it has coherence. Your learning collaborations for teachers should have coherence. There should be a purpose. It shouldn't be, hey, what are we gonna do this week in PLCs? I don't know, what do you want to do? Because that happens a lot. Or we just find the biggest fire that's out there right now. Let's do a let's do a uh a PLC on student engagement. That's not part of the coherence of our learning sequence to get to our goal. So, leaders out there, make sure that whatever you're doing to support your teachers, it's actually aligned to the steps that they need to take to move toward the goal.

SPEAKER_02 11:34

Yeah, and you just teed me up and I'm gonna throw a curveball because we didn't even talk about this. Okay, we're gonna lie. Let's say that you um have a brand new curriculum. What should the goals look like if you're you're trying to move student data, but you're in first year of just l figuring out this new curriculum?

SPEAKER_01 11:54

I would definitely, I mean, this kind of happened, you know, where we are based out of in Louisiana. You know, this we had a new evaluator rubric um or evaluation rubric. Right. And so I think when you get a new curriculum or you get a new rubric, I think the majority of your learning, at least in that for first semester for collaboration, needs to be, you know, just get good at using these materials, just get good at understanding the rubric. My learning sequence would start there. My goals would be based on implementation, you know, so I can make sure my teachers, that's that knowledge building piece. You know, I'm building their knowledge of the curriculum so they can build their knowledge of the content and how to get kids to those standards.

SPEAKER_02 12:31

Um, so what I'm hearing you say is that we've got to give teachers time to learn and build their knowledge and not pile up 10 goals on top of that.

SPEAKER_01 12:41

Yes, there's nothing more frustrating than when we get expectations placed upon us, but no time to meet those expectations.

SPEAKER_02 12:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:47

Or any learning to meet those expectations. So if you're gonna give someone a goal or even an implementation goal, you know, we want teachers, I think of this ELA, my ELA people out there, shout out, y'all are my people. Um a lot of times we get a new curriculum and we've got to learn the new curriculum, the layout, the assessment approach, you know, the different ways a lesson could look, but we also have to learn the text. We have to learn what, you know, the new writing rubrics, all the things. And but we're not given time to dig in. And that's what I love about what we get to do with with teachers is that a lot of times districts will have us come in and we sit with the teachers and we take the time to actually read the text. Right. Go through lessons, we model a lesson. It's real powerful when you actually support teachers in the learning that they need to do.

SPEAKER_02 13:27

Well, and how often are standards updated? I so I think that's something else if you're a leader out there to consider because that, you know, testing is about to come up around here at the time of this podcast. Um, so you're gonna be getting data back, you're gonna be taking the summer to dig through that and then setting goals for next year. I also take into consideration what new initiatives are coming through the state, what new initiatives might be coming through the district, and take those into account when you're setting goals. You can have implementation goals that give a sense of comfort to your teachers. And we wrote about this in our tier one curriculum trap book that stage one of curriculum implementation, just learn the materials and learn what components are critical. Um, but also think about the standards or, like you said, the evaluation rubric. Consider those when you're writing your district improvement plans or your school improvement plans. I think that's a really important thing to consider, also with your instructional coaching program.

SPEAKER_01 14:23

Yeah. And I mean, we talked about this when we were talking about lesson framing. Just like your kids want to know, why are we doing this? Like your teachers are gonna want to know, you know, why are we doing this? Well, it's connected to our initiative, it's connected to our goal, it's connected to our new curriculum. As much as you can have things align, and again, coherence, that is the game changer because that's where you're gonna get, I hate to say the word buy-in, but or trust. Trust it's it's so good. It's really about like this is why we're doing this. It all makes sense. It doesn't feel like I call it sometimes in curriculum, like you feel like curriculum whiplash, you're like, why is this in here? That's how teachers feel when you get a PLC out of left field or of collaboration out of left field on something random. Why are we doing this? Yeah. So as much as you can have a plan for what are your goals, but you know, what is your learning sequence going to look like? I know we have built out a learning sequence for the different curricula we work with, um, just for what those collaborations can like look like coherently across time. That way it doesn't feel random.

SPEAKER_02 15:21

Well, it really helps to think about what foundations do you want to build. Because if you're if something's important enough to set as a goal or a target, you've got to think what foundational practices do we need to have in place to make this successful so that we're not having to rewrite the same target the next year.

SPEAKER_01 15:38

Or it just feels completely unattainable as a teacher. Oh, true. You know, if I don't feel like whatever I'm doing every week that I'm doing in my planning time or collaboration is moving to me toward that, I feel like it's a waste of my time. And if nothing, if it's one thing we do not want to do is waste teachers' time because that is the only, that is the most valuable resource for a teacher.

SPEAKER_02 15:56

100%.

SPEAKER_01 15:56

So be meaningful, be purposeful, and and again, when we're setting those goals, think about breaking them down into actionable steps. What do teachers need to know, you know, to be able to achieve that goal, but also what do they need to be able to do to achieve that goal and make sure you're supporting them in both, because that's gonna be the difference maker when it comes to actually moving toward your goals.

SPEAKER_02 16:17

I love it. Thank you for nerding out on all things goals with me today. Um, this was just a passionate topic, and we know that this is about to make its round again. So and when we talk about our next topic on our next episode about success criteria, oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_01 16:31

This is the knowledge and skills piece is gonna come into play. So you're gonna want to check out that episode too, because you're gonna see it coming back up in that success criteria episode. But in the meantime, if you haven't, hit that like, subscribe, all the things underneath this video because we have a lot more content, a lot of things will be throwing your way. And of course, we will be joining you again next time. Again, my name is Courtney, and that is I'm Shannon. And we are Edu2020. See y'all next time.