It's Rarely Just About the Stuff: A Conversation with Melinda Grace

What if the clutter in your home isn’t really about the stuff?

That’s the question at the center of this conversation, and the answer goes deeper than you might expect. In this episode, I sit down with professional organizer and author Melinda Grace to talk about why our physical spaces have a direct impact on our emotional and spiritual wellbeing, why letting go can feel an awful lot like grief, and how her G.R.A.C.E. Method creates room not just in your home, but in your heart and mind for what God has next.

Hebrews 12:1 tells us to strip off every weight that slows us down. Sometimes that weight shows up in our cupboards, closets, and piles in the corner. And sometimes the most faithful thing you can do let go to make room.

“What you needed in the last season won’t always serve you in the next one. And sometimes the most faithful thing that you can do is let it go.” — Valerie Gibson Jones

This is a Bible and brain conversation through and through. Pull up a chair.

In This Episode:

• Why clutter is rarely about the stuff and what’s really underneath it.
• The science of clutter and what elevated cortisol levels have to do with your ability to hear God.
• How our surroundings send millions of tiny subconscious signals for better or worse.
• Why letting go of objects can feel like losing a memory or a person and what to do with that.
• How to invite God into the organizing process.
• A full walkthrough of the G.R.A.C.E. Method: Gather, Release, Acquire, Cultivate, Enjoy.
• Where people most commonly get stuck and how to keep moving.
• Where to start when you’re overwhelmed and don’t know how.

About Melinda Grace
Melinda Grace is a professional organizer and lifelong follower of Christ with over 15 years of experience in business, nonprofit, and the entertainment industries. Realizing that grace, home, and faith were everything to her, she started her organizing business in 2020 to help working moms declutter and reconnect with their calling. She is the author of Reclaim Your Space with G.R.A.C.E., built around her signature G.R.A.C.E. Method.

Resources Mentioned

• Get the book Reclaim Your Space with G.R.A.C.E. by Melinda Grace 
• Get the Freebie Kitchen Hack Guide from Melinda

Scripture Referenced

• Hebrews 12:1 (NLT)
• Psalm 46:10
• Matthew 9:17 / Mark 2:22 / Luke 5:37–38
• Ephesians 3:20

Going Deeper
The themes of this conversation — clutter, release, seasons, and the God who makes all things new — are woven throughout Scripture. If today’s episode stirred something in you, here are a few passages worth sitting with:

• Hebrews 12:1 — “Let us strip off every weight that slows us down.”
• Isaiah 43:19 — “See, I am doing a new thing.”
• Ecclesiastes 3:1 — “There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under the heavens.”
• Philippians 4:11–13 — On contentment and sufficiency in every season.

Connect with Melinda

• Melinda's Website
• Instagram: @melindagraceorganizing

About Your Host

Valerie Gibson Jones is a board-certified Christian Life Coach, Mental Health Coach, and Grief Educator, and the founder of The Purpose Project. Each episode of this podcast exists to help you navigate the messy middle — the gap between where you are and where God is calling you — with faith, courage, and honest conversation.

Connect with Valerie

• Website
• Instagram: @purposeprojectcoach
• Join the email list. 
• Support the show

If today’s episode encouraged you, would you share it with one woman who needs to hear it? And if you haven’t yet, leaving a review on Apple Podcasts helps this podcast find the women it was made for. Thank you for being here.

Transcript

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SPEAKER_02 0:01

Hey friend, welcome to the Purpose Project Podcast, where we talk about what it really looks like to live, love, and lead with purpose and authenticity in the messy middle, that space between where you are and where you want to be. I'm Valerie Jones, a Christian life and leadership coach, and around here, we don't do hustle culture, perfectionism, people pleasing, or self-help band-aids. Instead, we're all about biblical truth, brain-based tools, and emotional health so you can walk out your calling with courage without burning out or sacrificing what matters most. Each episode will dive into real life stories, engaging conversations, and relatable teaching moments to help you get out of your head and into the life God's calling you to live. Whether you're navigating change, feeling overwhelmed, craving clarity, or just trying to feel like yourself again, take a breath and lean in. You're in the right place. Let's dive in. I want to say something right up front. This episode is not about your junk drawer. My guest today is a professional organizer, which is pretty fantastic, by the way. So you may be wondering why we're having a conversation about clutter with a professional organizer. You may even be tempted to think this one's probably not for me. But I want to encourage you to stay with me because what we're actually talking about today is weight. A kind of weight that accumulates quietly in the spaces around you. Hebrews 12.1 says, Let us strip off every weight that slows us down. Clutter and disorganization can represent that kind of weight, and that's exactly where we're going today. We're gonna talk about why clutter affects us so deeply, how there is a physiological response to our environments to clutter. We talk about why letting go feels an awful lot like grief. We talk through the Grace method. This is a Bible and brain conversation through and through, and I can't wait for you to meet today's guest, Melinda Grace. As I mentioned, Melinda is a professional organizer and a lifelong follower of Christ with over 15 years of experience in business, nonprofit, and the entertainment industries. Realizing that grace, home, and faith were everything to her, she started her organizing business in 2020 to help working moms declutter and reconnect with their calling. She's the author of Reclaim Your Space with Grace, which is built around her signature grace method. I cannot wait for you to hear from her. So let's get started. Well, welcome to the podcast, Melinda. I'm so glad to have you today. Oh, yay!

SPEAKER_00 2:56

Thank you, Valerie. I'm so excited to be here. I just love you. I love your messages, and I'm excited to dive in and learn from you. I I think it's gonna be a juicy conversation.

SPEAKER_02 3:07

I hope so. I think it will too. I feel the same. I'm very excited to talk to you and gain wisdom from what you have to say and from the work you're doing. But let's start at the very beginning. Tell me a little bit of your story. How did God get you here where you are right now, doing what you're doing?

SPEAKER_00 3:23

Yes. So I I love telling my story because I think a lot of women can relate to it. But I also think it's funny because most organizers, if you meet them, this is kind of like our second career. So I'm definitely in the same boat as most of those organizers. And then I also wanted to preface my journey by saying that I'm definitely 100% a child of the 80s. So in the 80s, like I played with Barbie dolls. My favorite one was the astronaut Barbie doll. And so I was definitely taught that women can be anything, we can do anything, we can have the career that we want. And then obviously, growing up, we we know that we also want the career that brings us the most joy and passion and a calling, that kind of opportunities have really become available to women. So that's a huge part of my story because I feel like for most of my life, I've been on that journey of like finding that career that makes sense with who I am, and then also is a calling and has purpose and brings me joy, and then brings the people I help joy. So that's kind of a little bit of background of me. But I came into this, or God led me to this because I had been pursuing a career in acting, and I was having the time of my life. I got to live in New York City, and God always provided for me friends, a job, acting gigs, talent managers, agents. He just provided all along the way. And then I moved to Los Angeles in 2014 because I really felt led to do Hollywood. I don't know if I felt led or if it was vanity, who knows? But but I ended up in Los Angeles to try to do TV film, and yeah, and it just didn't work out for me. One day I was having the time of my life, auditioning for movies that Reese Britherspoon was producing and Hulu and Netflix, but I I wasn't getting booked for any of the jobs, which means I wasn't making money. The job I had came to an end, so I was looking for another job, and I there was just a day where acting didn't become fun anymore. It was draining my wallet, I had no money left, I spent all the money I had on a solo show, which I sold out, had got great reviews, but it wasn't like La La Land. I didn't book an independent film after that and become famous, like nothing happened for me. So I was like, oh man. And also somewhere along the way, between the hustle and worrying about money and career and everything, I just forgot to really pray and focus on God, and I just got wrapped up in everything, just I got wrapped up in it all, and so I was running around trying to find a digital marketing job that I liked. I tried so many and I didn't like them. And one day I took this dream job for an independent film distribution company, which, if you're coming out of the acting world and you get to work on movies with A-list actors and market them, that just sounded so amazing and exciting. But I forgot to do my research because I was just so anxious to find the next thing and get a job. I also fell in love with this guy. I didn't want him to think I was a complete loser and couldn't pull my life together. So I took this job and I didn't realize I was gonna have to market horror films. And I'm super sensitive to that stuff. For me, I was like, this is real, I can't do this stuff, it's so evil to me and my personality and what I believe in. And so one day I just woke up in my apartment and I had this huge panic attack, anxiety, couldn't breathe, just called home balling, crying uncontrollably. Like, I don't know what I'm doing here, I don't know what to do. And they're like, Well, just come home, just come home. So I just took a deep breath and prayed, and I just really felt like God was just calling me to go home. So I hopped in my car, I just packed a suitcase and I drove home to Houston, which is like a two-day drive. Oh man. And I my head was so full of ideas and searching for a job and acting and this and the boyfriend and love and God and what did I do? Shame. You talk about shame in one of your podcasts that I listened to, guilt for messing up completely. And so I just I couldn't even listen to the radio. I just had to have like complete silence the whole way home. So I drove home. I was home in Houston for about a month. I reconnected with my family, I went to church there, I saw a counselor, I started reading the Bible again and listening to it. And then, you know, my boyfriend at the time, he just kind of let me be, but he didn't really go anywhere. He stuck by me, and I'm so grateful to this day. And I decided eventually to come back to Los Angeles, and then I got married. So I started working with the life coach because, like I said, it was really, really, really important to me to find a career that made sense with who I am and my values. You called it on your podcast like a complete disconnect with your value system. Right. That's what happened to me. It was a complete disconnect. Any job I was looking for, finding, and so I ended up working with a life coach who was a believer, and we just worked through some activities and I got to know myself. I did the Enneagram and just really kind of made like non-negotiables for a career and for who I am and God, who God made me to be, right? I really wanted to use the skills He had given me, and then I made a a list of all the jobs I'd ever dreamed of, and all the jobs I'd ever had, and I made the pros and cons list for each one, and then I reviewed it with my husband, and he was like, What is this organizing thing? Can you really get paid to do that? And I was like, Yes. And there's two TV shows I can show you. One is Marie Kondo, the other one is the home edit. So we watched those shows together, and then I did some more research. I reached out to other women who were professional organizers, and he got on some calls with me, just doing the due diligence, and then together we decided let's give it a try. I have nothing to lose, you know, it'll be like the 30th job I've tried, so like why not?

SPEAKER_02 9:46

So love that.

SPEAKER_00 9:48

So I I posted on Facebook and I started out for free and just to see if it was something I could do. And my friends invited me over, and I organized their spaces, and I just had a blast. I had a blast doing it, they were wonderful to work with. I loved working with my hands, I loved being in people's homes and connecting with them and having conversations, and also with organizing, the result is so tangible, it's very clear, very physical. You can see the immediate results, and and that was just so exciting. And then, as we'll dive into later, there's also a deeper work going on when you organize, and so to be able to see that in my clients' lives and in my friends' lives was just so powerful. So that was 2020, and then here I am six years later. God's faithfulness through my whole journey was so wonderful. So, if if any of your listeners are in that same boat of exploring and just trying different things and stuck in the middle, like you talk about, just hang in there. God doesn't waste anything, He doesn't He didn't waste any of the stupid jobs I tried, He didn't waste anything, He just is so kind to us.

SPEAKER_02 11:01

Thank you for sharing that so much. I I really love everything that you're saying. You just said, just experiment, explore. I remember sitting with a counselor not that long ago, and he was talking about that because I get all wrapped up and I have to make the right decision. And it's forever. Like I'm getting like I'm gonna be stuck with it. That was my own self-imposed limitation. And it's actually not true. He's like, you really need to reframe this and just think of it as an experiment. Like, I'm just gonna try this and we'll see what happens. And I can trust that God in me, God with me, it's enough for me to navigate whatever might go wrong in my experiment if it doesn't turn out the way that I that I hope or think or plan. So I love that you said that. And it really is encouraging. I think so many times we need permission. We need permission to say, I'm gonna try this, and I really don't know how it's gonna end up, but that's okay. It's gonna be okay. Um at what moment in the process, Melinda, did you you've used the word calling and purpose. At what moment did it become that? Instead of just this fun thing that you that you picked off of your list to do, at what moment did it shift into this is my thing, this is my calling and my purpose? How did you discover that?

SPEAKER_00 12:15

Yeah, so I think when I started charging for it, that also helped. Oh, I can I can make money doing this. This is crazy. That that makes it feel more real and purposeful, not like a hobby or just helping out a friend. And and then I I think when I got my first client that wasn't my friend or family, I was it's just really felt real. This random person is trusting me, they're letting me into their home, they're sharing with me their overwhelm and then their goals for a vision of a life that they want to have. And I think the first time I experienced that, I was like, Whoa, this is incredible! This is really powerful work or can be really powerful work. And then at the time, I also have to give credit and props to the life coach that I that I knew and was working with because she also wanted me to do a workshop and offer that to some of her clients, and so I did a workshop, and then just seeing that powerful transformation, even digitally, was also very eye-opening. Like, wow, this really is a calling and a gift that I can use to serve other people while also feeling satisfied that I'm living it out and happy, and it's just the alignment was there, so yeah, alignment is so important, it's really a classic and beautiful example of how two things can be true.

SPEAKER_02 13:40

I think sometimes we think work is supposed to be a chore, you know, like that we're really very fortunate if we happen to like the work that we do. Yes, yes, but in reality, there is there is work that we can do that can be fulfilling, it can be both and it can be work and also bring us great joy. And yeah, I think that your story is a beautiful example of that.

SPEAKER_00 14:04

Yes, thank you.

SPEAKER_02 14:05

You've already mentioned the grace method. You have a book, Reclaim Your Space with Grace. You got it right. I really enjoyed the book. I'm gonna have the link for everybody who's listening. You talk right from the start of the book about Hebrews 12:1. And you compare clutter in our lives to weight, weight that we perhaps need to strip off. You talk about how it can hinder our ability to hear God, our ability to step into the things that God might be calling or leading us to. Let's talk a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_00 14:35

Yeah, so I have the Bible verse here just for those listening. Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a huge cloud of witnesses to the life of faith, let us strip off every weight that slows us down, especially the sin that so easily trips us up. Hebrews 12 1. That was the New Living Translation. So the grace method is kind of born out of that, and also I just needed a lot of grace in my own life to get to this point. And then also when you're decluttering and organizing, it's really easy to to put all these labels on ourselves because when you're decluttering, Murray Kondo, I think, says you're coming up against yourself and who you are, your past, your future. Everything is coming up to you. Um, and so you just need a lot of grace when you're organizing for the emotions that come up, for just your life experience, and just because we want to get through the process, right? I want it to be an enjoyable process for anyone that does it. I don't want it to be so strict and rule-driven and to to where the process itself becomes a weight, because that to me defeats the purpose.

SPEAKER_02 15:51

You say it's rarely about the stuff. Oh, like there's always something happening underneath the clutter, underneath the stuff. And I think you've already alluded to it a little bit. We come up against things, things bubble to the top when we're working through this process. There are some stats that you shared in your book that I'm gonna share here just because I was completely like, oh my goodness. Then we can we can talk a little bit more about that. But yes, it is very clear based on what I read in your book, what I've in my own work, what I've come across that there is a direct connection between the external and the internal, and vice versa. So one or four Americans have a clutter problem. Correct. And that in the average home there are 300,000 plus items.

SPEAKER_00 16:40

Yes, and that study was done before the pandemic, before we all got addicted to buying things on Amazon. So I my gut tells me that that is even higher. Then the other one I love so much is a group of anthropologists work with UCLA, and they showed that our society is the most materially rich society in the history of humanity. It's what we grew up with, it's what we know, it's what most of the modern world knows. And so when you stop and you think, oh yeah, you're right, for centuries, centuries, millions, hundreds of thousands of years, people did not have this much stuff.

SPEAKER_02 17:19

Right.

SPEAKER_00 17:20

So this is definitely a modern issue.

SPEAKER_02 17:23

And one of overwhelm and overload, right? Here are two more Americans spend two and a half days a year looking for lost things, and $2.7 billion replacing missed placed possessions. Yeah, so that right there is a it's an indicator that maybe we have too much stuff.

SPEAKER_00 17:43

Exactly. It's a time suck, it's a money suck. Oh man. Yeah. Yeah, so yeah, so those are just general statistics about clutter, and and I love that. I love that you brought it up. I think it's very eye-opening. And and I I hope that this conversation leads to many more. I hope that people start questioning, oh yeah, you're right. I do have a lot of stuff, and is that okay? Is it affecting me? Like, is it not? What's going on? I hope that this is a question that everyone starts to ask themselves.

SPEAKER_02 18:17

Yeah, it brings awareness to the to the situation.

SPEAKER_00 18:20

I just wanted to get back to you had said that it's rarely about this stuff, or you quoted me saying it's really about the stuff. That's what you said, Melinda. You said that.

SPEAKER_02 18:30

It's really good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:32

Yeah. So clients obviously they come to me because it for them it is about this stuff, and they're like, I just need help. And that is the physical manifestation of something else going on. And and so, what is it? What what could possibly be going on that this clutter has built up and we have all this stuff? So sometimes it's just simply an issue of time and priority. I have a toddler now, so I definitely understand the issue of time. If you're in the new mom phase, time is definitely an issue, and then sometimes it's just a priority issue. It's like I don't want to focus on this right now for XYZ. There are other more important things happening. And then also I learned the importance of feeling safe. So sometimes I think the issue can be that people feel safe with the amount of clutter, it makes them feel safe for whatever reason. And then also I think it can also be about fear, fear that God's not gonna provide for you again. The scarcity mindset is very real. I mean, I feel like that's in our DNA, right? You talk to anthropologists, we were we were hunter-gatherers at one point, and to live off the land and and scarcity, and so that's just like in our blood who we are. So I think that's an another thing that is underneath all this stuff, and then also fear that we're gonna lose the memory of the experience, the person, the situation. I also want to just say a lot of times clutter isn't this deep, you know. Like if you need to throw away a sock because there's a hole in it, obviously you're not gonna hit the wall. Or if you're cleaning out old screws in your garage, sometimes it's just trash and it just makes sense and it's easy. But a lot of times it doesn't end up becoming these things. A really great example is in my life. I'm in my home office and I've changed careers from acting to this. So I still had a lot of my acting books, my scripts, all these different things that you need if you're gonna pursue acting. And a lot of it I had learned in New York. And so New York was a very transformational time period in my life for me. I I feel like living there helped give me my voice and reading playwrights like Chekhov and Tennessee Williams, they really helped me understand a lot of myself, and I got to play a lot of those characters on stage, and and so you know, I'm very emotionally tied to those plays, to the that experience. And but I also felt like and know that God is calling me into a new season with my business, with this book, with doing podcasts, and just talking more about that intersection of faith and organizing. Um, and also I'm a new mom. I just felt like a new season was coming, or that I was suddenly in a new season. So I was questioning do these books, do they do they still fit into this new season? Is that an old life? Is it a memory I want to curate and keep in my office, or is it something I need to let go? And so I really wrestled with that for two or three weeks. So the struggle is real. When I was afraid if I let go of these books, I'm gonna lose a part of who I am. And I think that's a big deal for people. If I let go of this pair of shorts, of this whatever. thing that has a memory or feeling attached to it. Am I gonna lose part of who I am? Am I gonna lose that memory? Am I gonna lose that connection? I love that word connection. Am I gonna lose that connection to that person, to myself, to God? And so that is very real and it's a very real stumbling block for many people, especially when they're decluttering. So in response to that, I did a webinar with my friend Glenda is her name. She's a life coach and strategist and she's the one that helped me realize it's not about the stuff. The feeling, the emotion, it's not physically in that item. It's in us. So if we let that item go, it's okay. We can sit down with a cup of tea and channel that experience and that feeling anytime we want. It's like it's in us. It's a part of who we are. And so when we let go of those things it's it's okay. And then I was able to let go of those books. I gave them to an acting friend. I gave them to a girl here who was studying for theater. And so that just felt really good. And I just feel like this weight was lifted off. New York was amazing. That experience was amazing for me. But I'm in a completely different place now. I'm not gonna lose that girl she's still in me. I learned a lot but now God's calling me to mature in a way and deep dive into something special and unique and I want to be available to that. So to me that's the beauty in organizing and like bringing that back to Hebrews 12 1. You know I'm letting go of those those physical items because they were becoming a weight because they were sitting up in my bookshelf and I would look at them and be like oh I misacting I wonder if I could do it again. I don't need to do it again. I'm here I'm here now in this moment. I love it. I love my life I love where I'm at I love what God's doing around the world and in women and I and I want to be a part of that.

SPEAKER_02 24:00

So that is so encouraging and inspiring and all of the things you said something in the book about how the things that we have around us like our surroundings are sending like millions of tiny subconscious signals and messages and we don't even realize it good or bad. And I talk about this all the time who who do you want to be because we're always becoming we didn't just arrive and now everything is static and flat. Like we it's a continuous process of growth and a journey. I think we talked about this in our conversation before how it sometimes feels I look around I'm like this doesn't fit who I am anymore. The things that I needed to carry in the last season or needed to have around me in the last season they aren't things that are going to serve me well in the the next season. It's like new wine and old wineskins. Scripture talks about that too right yes yes keeping our hands open so that the Lord can put things in and take things away you know spiritually speaking as he needs to to work his plan out in our lives and you're just a beautiful representation of that I love it so much.

SPEAKER_00 25:12

Very and I love that I feel like in my work and my method that allows room for the seasons of life to happen. It's it's not so strict where it's get rid of everything. It's more like what season are you in? What season is God calling you to be and can we get rid of the stuff from old seasons and prepare the way for something fresh something new and where we are now and sometimes we're in a season where a new season is not coming. We're in the middle of a season. Right you know like you can still check your space you can still declutter is there anything from the old season that's not serving me where I'm at right now in this moment right yeah and that's not neutral right there is nothing that's neutral and so I think sometimes we get in trouble thinking that's not it's not a big deal.

SPEAKER_02 26:04

Yeah no it's not a neutral thing.

SPEAKER_00 26:06

That's fine. It's like when I became when we adopted my son and I'm suddenly thrown into being a mom of a teeny tiny baby I need certain things to help him live to help him thrive well now he's a toddler and I don't need those things anymore. You know I can let them go I can pass them on to another new mom or maybe we'll adopt again so I can put them in a box but like I don't need them in my physical space. And he doesn't need it either because he's developing mentally and growing he needs different toys.

SPEAKER_02 26:37

It's a really great practical tangible example of exactly what what we're talking about. So we're gonna get into the actual method. I want you to give us a little bit of an overview of the method but before we do that what I understand from reading the book is that this you've already said it it's not necessarily about getting rid of everything that you love or that you need or about a bunch of rules but it is about intentionality and about agency to make choices about your space and about your stuff and about your things. Would you say that that is true?

SPEAKER_00 27:11

Yes yes we're all like unique people we're all coming and living in our homes with the life that we've lived with the life that we've lived right who God made us to be the experiences we've had and so um there are different things that are important to different people for different reasons. There are rooms that end up more cluttered than others for different people for different reasons. And so so I think just being able to slow down and have intentionality when you organize will make the experience so much more meaningful for you for your family and when you do that you can create space to invite God to be a part of the process which I love and yeah I'm a big prayer. I pray all the time inside my head and I think it's kind of shocking when I say that when you're decluttering or getting ready to organize that you can invite God in you can pray and he can help you and you can make decisions and he blessed you with these items. He blessed you with the the place where you live it doesn't have to be a big house maybe you live in an apartment or with a roommate it doesn't matter. That's still your home that you can create and cultivate with him.

SPEAKER_02 28:22

It's a really powerful reminder to invite him into everything. We we always talk about how concerned he is with the details but we forget to invite him into the details and I think it changes things when we start out that way. So I think that's really a really good reminder. Before you you talk about the method one more thing.

SPEAKER_00 28:44

We've talked all around it but I would love for you just to distill it down you know into a few sentences why is clutter so bad for us what's what's the big deal about clutter yes well we've already talked about it clutter can be a time suck it can be a money waster it can also keep you from having relationships with people and with God. We you know we learned in the pandemic that being isolated is not good for us it's not good for our kids and so you know sometimes I do have clients and they won't invite people over to the house because it is too cluttered. Like that's a real deal it may sound silly to some people but it's a real deal for others not wanting people to come over because they feel their space is too messy. You know we need that connection so that's another reason why clutter is bad for you. But also there has been scientific research done that shows that clutter can negatively impact our mental wellbeing particularly among women women who have issues with clutter have the signature pattern of cortisol that is associated with people who have chronic fatigue post-traumatic stress disorder and a higher risk of mortality I don't think anyone's ever realized that I didn't realize that before I started writing my book and cortisol is so important. It is a hormone it helps regulate stress and and all these things and so I think some people are like I'm banging my head against the wall why can't I hear God? Why can't I connect with him? What's going on? You know sometimes he is distant but other times I think it's just our space our clutter our our cortisol levels are ri risen there's a million other messages speaking to us in the space it's like no wonder we can't hear God.

SPEAKER_02 30:27

Yeah that's really that's really true and not something that we naturally think about or connect. We don't connect the dots between those two things and there's something else about you know there is physical clutter but there's also mental and emotional clutter right that can hold just as much space in our life and sometimes when we're working through this process at least in my own life it it all comes that that is the thing right the emotional and the mental clutter bubbles right to the top when I'm looking at that can opener I told you about the can opener. The can opener in my garage that was one of the gifts that my memo gave me that is still in my garage I almost got rid of it after our first call but and maybe today will be the day but it is still in my garage it doesn't work it's broken. I've not used an electric can opener in it's probably been a decade. Yeah and she's she passed away seven years ago but I look at the thing and all of this I mean it's yeah it's there and you feel connected to her. Yeah you're gonna you will always be connected to her always be connected to her and you just so you so beautifully articulated that already and I'm inspired I'm gonna text you later and tell you that I got rid of it.

SPEAKER_00 31:42

I was also like reminded of that verse that says be still and know that I am God yeah like how can we be still when we are inundated with all this noise on our phones, TVs, computers, internet so we have that bombarding us and then you step into your room and it's just filled with all this clutter speaking to us and decisions that need to be made it's like how can you be still it's a lot of chatter isn't it yeah a lot of chatter.

SPEAKER_02 32:12

It's is it it's feels like I always say this to my husband I'm like I can't cook in a dirty kitchen. Like if I come into the kitchen and there are dishes piled everywhere stuff piled on the table I'm like I do not walk in here and think oh let's have a nice family meal and I'm so excited to prepare I can't even all I can think is I've got to clean up the mess like it's just it is distracting from the moment I walk in and so I think I can relate to that on so many levels.

SPEAKER_00 32:37

So the grace method walk us through that yeah um so I came up with this because I really wanted an encouraging process for people. I mean the organizing process is generally the same I'll be honest but I just wanted to put a perspective on it that was full of grace and hope and joy and also give a 3D look at the experience like we've talked about. So a lot of methods are very 2D which is fine maybe that's all you need. But for those of us who want something deeper it I love it. It gives room for praying with God journaling having an experience and dealing with the issues that come up for us. So it's an acronym my middle name is Grace and then you guys have already heard my live experience I needed a lot of grace and we all need a lot of grace you even mentioned that in your podcast that grace is a necessity for all of us to work through what we're going through uh through living life I would just say so just the G the G is gather. So we're gonna gather our goals for the space I'm a huge fan of Zig Ziggler. You know my dad was in his Sunday school class when we lived in Dallas and I have tapes of him teaching I just love his work. He set our country in the modern world I believe off in this goal setting craze and I love it. So we're gonna set our goals for the space so I think that's so important because if I'm gonna organize my office I want to know what I want to accomplish in that space what do you want that space to be is it a craft room is it a workout room what is the function of that space and so setting a goal around that is great. Also do you want it to be beautiful do you need it to be functional who are you like what do you want this space to look like what do you envision it to look like so that's in the gather you're gonna gather your goals and your vision for your space then you're gonna gather organizations or charities or friends that you think you might want to donate or give stuff to just make a list and at least get your your brain turning the wheels turning and so then when you're organizing you're like oh I can give this to this person. Oh I can donate to this and the decisions can roll out faster so it's just getting to know your community and how you can give back so that's the G. And then then we get to gather all of our supplies boxes that we need trash bags sharpies post-it notes and then we're gonna gather all the things so it's kind of a loaded step but to me every step is fun so then we're gonna start in our space whatever space you're working with in and you're gonna gather all the items in that space and you're gonna sort and categorize them so if you're working in your home closet you're gonna pull out all the t-shirts pull all the blouses all the pants all the shoes the socks and you're just gonna kind of sort them into categories if you live in a smaller space and you don't have the time or the space to pull everything out that's what we organizers do. Then I would say start in sections so that's the G. Then the R is release and I love this word it allows for so much depth because when you release something that opens the door for something new to come into your life and also like we've talked about releasing sometimes can be hard like your can opener so you can spend a minute praying with the Lord there's a guided journal that you can download with the book where you can journal or maybe you have a journal about anything that comes up and work on releasing it. So that's that is what it is it's releasing the items you feel like you should release that you don't need anymore. You can let it go then the third word is acquire which somebody asked me you just got rid of all this stuff why are you gonna acquire more things I'm like oh no no no no no it's not acquiring more things it's acquiring what you need to complete the organization of that space and the vision that you have for that space. So maybe maybe you want to put maybe you have a reach in closet and you want to wallpaper the back wall. Now you have everything out you can go acquire the wallpaper and stick it up or maybe you want to repaint a space while it's clean and everything is out of the space. Maybe you have extra money and you want to buy beautiful baskets to store things in it's it's acquiring all those little things. Then the next one is cultivate cultivating is a gardening term it means to tend to grow and so as you're organizing you're gonna start putting things away using the bins you bought you're gonna start labeling them you're gonna start creating systems. I love to call it like a rhythm like a dance in your home you're gonna create a dance in your space with how you live your life how you grab the items how you want to put them away that makes sense to you and how you live and how you function and so sometimes that takes longer than just an hour to put it away sometimes you need to put it away and then you're like oh that didn't work so I'm gonna adjust it. Oh this bin doesn't work I'm gonna return it I'm gonna get a different one that's okay it's your journey it's your process it's your home it's your rhythm that you're developing and cultivating so that's what cultivate is um and then the E is enjoy because you gotta enjoy it life is so short we only get a little bit of time here and you just did all of this work and and also we have the greatest example that God rested and enjoyed his work when he created creation. So so we should enjoy my favorite thing is tea and so I love to grab a cup of tea and just like be in the space and thank God that he gave you the ability to to organize that he showed you where to to give things away where to put things the rhythm you created how he walked you through the process and just enjoy I think we move so fast in our life that it's really hard to slow down and and obviously when you're organizing you're gonna get the organizing bug and keep going but I would just encourage you that when you finish a space no matter how small to just stop and enjoy and celebrate that you did it. It's also scientifically proven that when we give ourselves little rewards that it keeps us going.

SPEAKER_02 39:01

Where do people typically get stuck in this process is there a pattern that you see in working with clients where they're like they stall out or they lose motivation yeah so I would say people definitely have a time limit for how how long they can handle going through things which is why they hired me so I can do it.

SPEAKER_00 39:22

But I would say the hard part is the release when they hit an emotional item so for example I have a client she's an amazing woman has two kids a widowed mother and um and we were organizing her garage and it was full to the brim she forgotten what was in there because she had to move there a couple years ago and then so we're making really great progress and then we hit a box from her deceased husband and then just stopped. Everything stalled she you know she started to tear up she I told her take a minute take ten minutes we're here we'll keep going but you can take a break and you know so that's where it is that's what it happens you know the clutter builds up because life happened somebody passed away you had to move you you've had a medical emergency it's just life you know it just happens it's like there's no shame there's no guilt around it and then you hit an item that means a lot to you for whatever reason and you have to stop. And that's okay. We can pray we can journal we can learn from people like you how to cope with those moments and deal with them and then when you feel ready you can jump back into where you were so I would say that's the biggest trip up.

SPEAKER_02 40:36

Yeah I remember after losing my first child when it was time to get rid of things it it took it actually took years before I was ready to do that. I was able to put everything in one place and store it nicely and just I just had to literally put it on a shelf until I was ready to come back and it took a long time before I was ready to come back. I think it's probably such a gift to have somebody like you walking alongside in a situation like that just with those reminders that it's okay. It is okay to take a minute it's okay to move this over here and wait.

SPEAKER_00 41:16

Yeah I still haven't gone through that box and it's fine it's her it's her journey it's her life she's gonna get to it when she's ready there's room for it is that's so good.

SPEAKER_02 41:27

So what do you say to the to the woman who is looking around right now and thinking yeah I really could probably I can use this book I could use a little organizing in my space but she just immediately stalls because she doesn't know where to start.

SPEAKER_00 41:42

Yes first of all it's okay to be overwhelmed just accept that you have those feelings and just put the shame away put the guilt away we all have clutter we're the most materially rich society ever in the history of mankind so it's okay. Yeah and then and then I would say go back to the beginning with the gather. So one of the activities in my book is to close your eyes and walk through your space and get a sense for what area of your house is stressing you out the most most of my clients come to me because their kitchen is bugging them their primary closet is bugging them or the home office. It's usually one of those three where we start. And so whatever space area cupboard drawer is stressing you out the most that's where I love to start because you're gonna find the most immediate relief and why wouldn't you start there? The only thing I don't start with is memorabilia. Those are too too hard to just to start if you're this overwhelmed and you're feeling paralyzed kitchen's a great place closet's a great place but it has to be you and like when you close your eyes what is m stressing you out the most let's start there. Let's find immediate relief so we can keep moving forward. So a couple fun questions here to to wrap us up what is your fave organizing tip or hack do you have do you have a favorite thing like a go-to well I I love organizing kitchens like one of the harder rooms to organize because everyone uses it and has their own opinion of how it should be but the more you can minimize the packaging in your kitchen okay the I think the better the more you can buy like a clear glass jar or the OXO containers or the spice jars I'm obsessed with it. I really does eliminate a lot of mental noise because think about it each every time you buy something and it's packaged it has to have all the FDA things on it or it has to have the ingredients the calories it has the marketing slogan it has their colors it has their thing and it's like I just want rice. I just want to use some salt I don't need all the Other noise. So yeah, if you have the time and the resources, I that's my favorite thing.

SPEAKER_02 44:06

So is the kitchen? Is the kitchen your favorites based organize? Is that your favorite?

SPEAKER_00 44:10

I would say my my ultimate favorite is a primary closet, but kitchens is a close second.

SPEAKER_02 44:16

Okay. All right. I remember last summer I treated myself to a clear drawer for my eggs in the fridge. And my kids were making so much fun of me. I'm like, watch, it pulls out. It opens. I totally relate to the containers. We laugh about that. So I love that. That's really great advice. So knowing what you know now about all of the things that you've learned about clutter and organizing and the internal, external connection, what what would you say to a younger version of yourself?

SPEAKER_00 44:53

I would say it's okay to change and be different and keep growing. I feel like my younger self was worried about who to be friends with and popularity and being cool. And I feel like I missed out on some cool relationships with people that I regret to this day because I didn't give them more time. And so I would tell myself to just be more aware of that and be more aware of the the amazing people in my life and not worry so much about people's opinions and and be okay to change and grow.

SPEAKER_02 45:35

That's really beautiful. Thank you. Thank you for sharing all of your expertise and your wisdom. Where can people find you online, Melinda?

SPEAKER_00 45:43

Yes, my website is melindagrace.com. I'm really working hard on releasing a course and group coaching with this so that you can have more access to me and I can hold space for you. I'm hoping that will be in the fall by the time this podcast comes out. So that's also on my website. But you can also connect with me more one-on-one on Instagram. You can send me a DM me, message me. That's Melinda Grace Organizing. That's the the handle for on Instagram. So those two places. And I also have a freebie on my website. If you go to my website, there's a free kitchen, because I love kitchen. There's a free time-saving kitchen hack guide for anyone that would want that. And you just go to my website and download it.

SPEAKER_02 46:28

I will make sure to have that link in the show notes, and I'm gonna go download it myself as soon as we get done here. So I'm so grateful, Melinda. You are pure joy, really. Um it is a beautiful thing to see how God is working in and through you, and you really are just radiant. And so it is a gift to sit with you today, and I'm so so grateful for you being here. Melinda, thank you again. This conversation was exactly what I knew it would be. Friend, I want to leave you with one question. Not a to-do list, not a challenge to overhaul your entire home this weekend, just one question. What might you be carrying that God is asking you to release? It might be something physical, a box in the garage, a pile on the desk, a room full of things that belong to a season that you've already left. Or it might be something deeper than that. A version of yourself that you're still holding on to, a grief that you haven't quite named, a fear that's been living in your space rent-free for years. Here's what I know what you needed in the last season won't always serve you in the next one. And sometimes the most faithful thing that you can do is let it go. Sometimes the thing that God is asking of you is literally to make room physically, emotionally, spiritually. Because he has something new for you that is far beyond what you could ask or imagine. Do yourself a favor, grab Melinda's book, Reclaim Your Space with Grace. It's linked in the show notes. I read it, I marked it up. I think that you're gonna find it incredibly helpful to go grab a copy. Hey friend, thanks for tuning in to the Purpose Project podcast. I hope today's conversation helped you feel seen and a little less alone in the messy middle of life. If this episode encouraged you, would you take a second to share it with a friend or leave a quick review? That will help other women who need hope and encouragement find this space. And it truly means the world to me. You can always find free resources or upcoming events or join the email list by visiting my website, thepurposeproject.us. Remember, friend, you were created on purpose and for a purpose. Until next time, be brave and eyes on Jesus.