SPEAKER_05 0:01

Divorce, adultery, broken families, fatherless homes, these are things that are plaguing our society right now. Jesus actually has a whole lot to say about that. So let's discuss it. This is the Topher Brown Show. Thanks for tuning back in to the Topher Brown show wherever you're watching from, wherever you're listening from, we really appreciate you tuning in. Hey, before we get started today, I need to offer up a bit of a disclaimer. Um we're not going to be talking about anything too crazy, but this is going to be a PG 13 type of conversation. So if you're listening with little ones, um just going to offer out a or put out there a parental discretion. Um you use your discretion and decide what's uh appropriate for your um your child to listen to. Having said that, we're gonna jump right into some pretty heavy uh content today uh dealing with adultery and divorce and um things of that nature. And so before we get into all of that, on an extremely happy, jovial note, hey Nick, my co-host, how are you doing in there, man?

SPEAKER_04 1:26

Oh, pretty good. Howdy, howdy, America.

SPEAKER_05 1:29

I hope you're ready to talk about all this stuff today. Um yeah, any day. Sure. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's just get right in there, man. Um, back for a third time at this point is our good friend, Mr. Chris James. Thank you so much for joining us again, man. We really appreciate it. Oh, I love it.

SPEAKER_00 1:50

I enjoyed it and uh never had any better.

SPEAKER_04 1:53

So long time no see since episode five.

SPEAKER_05 1:56

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:56

It's been a minute.

SPEAKER_05 1:58

Yeah. And depending on what episode this is, uh it it could it might be three weeks from now, it might be three years from now. So it's man, it's great to see you. No, it's good to be here. It's been a long time. Yeah. Well, we're talking about some stuff today that um, you know, for us, for us three is really, really important because um, you know, in my in my opinion, um divorce is something that I have some experience with. I have never been divorced, but my parents are divorced. Uh I grew up in a divorced uh with a divorced uh family. Um and so you know, divorce is has affected me, maybe not in in um the ways that it's it's it's affected other people out there. My my parents were really, really um diligent about making sure that our that our family life kind of stayed um together. Um but you know, divorce is such a is such a heavy thing. Um it we've seen examples all across um the world about how you know families are pitted against one another, um, things of this nature. And so we're gonna talk about divorce, we're gonna talk about some of the causes of divorce, which we might get into the adultery conversation, we might get into some things uh concerning you know pornography addiction and things like that. But uh we we we I wanted to sit down and talk with and have you on and talk about this specific theme because it is such a um it's such a needed conversation right now. We don't talk about this as much as we should, to be perfectly honest with you. And not too long ago, not too long ago, you preached a sermon on this. Um, and it was um man, it was very uh profound, a lot of the things that Jesus has to say about this stuff. So I kind of wanted to dive in um on that a little bit on this episode.

SPEAKER_00 4:00

Yeah, so when I didn't realize how big of an interest that this was to our local area, um I did a video just reading scripture. I just read the scripture and said, come Sunday, ask your questions, and we'll and we'll answer them. It had five point five five thousand five hundred views. Yeah, like a crazy number of in just our local little area like interested. And the caption was just divorced, you know. Um so it affects everybody. It doesn't just affect the local family, it affects the local community. Uh business owners, it affects the people that that you know you have in positions. Um if they're going through a divorce, their work's gonna suffer. It it affects the whole community. And I have seen men completely break over divorce. I've seen women completely break over divorce. It uh mental health crises, um, um integrity issues come from it. Um they start doing things they normally wouldn't do and never done. Um start drinking when they've never drank before a day in their life. Um and the identity crisis from the young people, yeah. Um, they don't know who they are when they turn uh 20-something years old. They just have no clue because they didn't have a man in their life that was there because their daddy was stripped from through divorce, um, or their mother was stripped from them because of a divorce. And and so they're spending their golden years in their adult life trying to figure out exactly who they are as an adult because they don't know what that looks like.

SPEAKER_05 5:40

Right. That's big. The first time you were on the podcast, you mentioned that um when you were deployed uh recently, a couple years ago, that you had to counsel how many how many soldiers was it through divorce?

SPEAKER_00 5:54

Twenty-three.

SPEAKER_05 5:54

Twenty-three. Yep. And each one is a three-month process with me and the Jag. In that one deployment. Um, what not not to to divulge any information about you know counseling sessions, but what would you say like percentage-wise, was that the majority of that? What what would you say was the leading cause of the majority of that?

SPEAKER_00 6:15

Husbands were their heads in the sand, they didn't know their wives. They're they weren't being intimate with their wife, they weren't uh uh loving their wife the way the wife is supposed to be loved, um, they weren't spending time listening to their wives. Literally, if they would just sit down and listened and then regurgitate what she said, a lot of problems have been solved before they left. Um, and then uh you know, and it's it's crazy that you say that. All the men would come to me and they would say the exact same things while they were crying to me that their wives said, and it's all lining up the same. And for me, um uh as a Christian man, I'm like, there's some kind of spiritual uh demeanor with this. There's because there's no way that these women are talking, but they're saying the exact same thing. Um that they have basically been um just uh roommates for a while and all these kind of just non-sensical things that these men are like, you know. But what happened is the man wakes up, goes to work, comes back home, bills are paid, doesn't pay attention to anybody else, yeah, you know, uh single or focused, um, that they miss their wife. And the thing is about wives and husbands that I've seen, which we'll talk about the adultery thing, is is um wives, I've seen this, uh ladies, they can do uh an adulterous act and go back to business as usual, and the man will never know about it. The man does it, everything changes. He gets distant from the wife, and he becomes a different person around her, and you know, they can't hide it. And so I I saw a lot of trends of unfaithfulness on both ends, which we will have to define, but because adultery is not just a physical act. Right. Um, if a man is withholding himself from his wife, there's adultery there. And we'll talk about that. Well it Jesus goes deep with it.

SPEAKER_05 8:12

Yeah, I mean, uh, so let's let's talk about it because Jesus um kind of flipped the script on what we what people originally perceived as adultery. Yes. And um, you know, I would say that what people originally perceived as adultery is what we currently perceive as adultery, and what society currently accepts as adultery, which is a spouse cheating on a spouse. Right. But Jesus said that if you thought about it, yeah, you've committed the act.

SPEAKER_00 8:42

Yeah, it's a heart posture. Yeah, adultery is a heart posture. What a crazy concept. Um, but also it shows um just how futile we are and how you know the the standards that uh the Lord created us to keep within marriage. Marriage is very sacred, very sacred. It is the one of the most sacred acts on the planet because it's one of the it is the first covenant. Yeah, like it is sacred to God. Um and when God uh joined two people together, and there's gonna be people out here that hate hearing this, but grab your nearest straw and suck it up because it's true, okay? When he joined two together, he didn't mean for them to separate. Right. And he only gives three reasons for separation in scripture, and that's it. Um, and so uh do you mind if I read you scripture right now? Absolutely. Let me read you scripture. These are the words of Jesus. This is a sermon on the mount, he's talking mainly to men, and the men were to uh of course address uh the women and children, it's just the time of the day. So the time and the culture of that day. So you're hearing a lot of his, but it applies holistically uh to females as well, um, and to young people. And so um, before we go into the marriage uh sacred and binding aspect of it, gotta get an understanding exactly what adultery is, and what you touched on a little bit, but the severity of it, of it, okay? Um and why is adultery, why is adultery um uh such a big issue? Because it just doesn't affect the other person, it affects you. You're actually, Paul tells us in 1 Corinthians that we're sinning against our own self whenever we commit adultery, okay? And there's a reason for that. And I'm not gonna go into the neurological, the biological, the all that, which I can. I did extensive research on it. Um, and it took us an hour and 30 minutes to go through that sermon. I remember. Um, I heard about that. But um You heard about that. I heard about that. But um, there's neurological pathways that you're building and and within yourself whenever you are committing adulterous acts. Okay, so um there's neurological effects like depression, anxiety, uh, all these kinds of things that people deal with. It may, if you trace it back, it may come from things that you weren't supposed to be doing sexually. Okay. So this is what he says. You have heard it said, this is Jesus, Matthew 5, 27, you have heard it said of those of old, you shall not commit adultery. But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. All right, men, every single last one of you, you just heard that, didn't you? And ladies, if your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you. That's all that's the severity of this. For it's more profitable for you that one of your members perish than for your whole body to be cast into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you. For it's more profitable for you that one of your members perish than for your whole body to be cast into hell. So what is Jesus saying here? He's not telling us to cut off a limb and pluck out an eye. There's a lot of blind, limbless people that are still sinners. Okay, that's not what it's saying here. He's using hyperbole, he's saying this is how serious it is. Yeah. That whatever it takes for you to cut this off from you, you need to take that step. Like whatever it is, right? And it's strange, I'll just say this. He's talking to a bunch of men, and he uses the eye, what you think, and then your hand, what you do. And he's telling them to cut off their right hand. Y'all pay attention to that, men. I won't I'll just say that right there, okay? And I'll just leave that one right there due to the PG 13 rating. Um, but I'll say this God did not create love making, because I hate the word sex. Yeah. He did not create love making to be a one man show, okay? And so everyone needs to understand that there's there's problems right there if you're committing adultery. Um, and what you could be doing that without touching anybody but yourself. And he goes on to say this furthermore, because it's all together, it has been said, whoever divorces his wife, now this is going to cause a lot of problems for people, but guys, this is the words of Jesus. Okay? It's just the words of Jesus. We have to look at it and we can't change it. Yeah furthermore, it has been said, whoever divorces his wife, let him give her certificate of divorce. But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery, and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.

SPEAKER_05 13:32

Wow. Okay, so let's jump right off into that specific thing. Because as I said in the in the opening, um, I I come from a divorced uh set of parents. My parents were divorced when I was, I think, five years old. I don't actually, I don't have a whole lot of memories of my mom and my dad together. But what my what my mom and my dad did very effectively was not turning me against one or the other. Uh they made sure that we s that I still had a solid, firm relationship with the other parent. And to this day, I'm very, very thankful for that. But what you just read, both of my parents are remarried. So can you expand on kind of what Jesus is talking about right there? Because does that mean that um my mom's committing adultery with my stepdad? My dad's committing adultery with my stepmom. Can you can you kind of go into that a little bit deeper?

SPEAKER_00 14:28

Absolutely, with pure joy.

SPEAKER_05 14:30

Okay. Well, go ahead and hopefully I was hoping you say that.

SPEAKER_00 14:33

Um so what's that's what's at stake, okay? So let's just be completely honest because some people like to just bypass that, and that's not what he's really saying. That's what he's really saying. Okay, so here's what's at stake. Okay. There could be someone out here or out out wherever, um, and this is what I thought about when I was going to bring this message, okay, because this is what is at stake, who said let's say they got married to the wrong person, and they were married for a year and they got a divorce. And then they married someone and uh they've been with them for 40 years, only to go be with the Lord and find out you've been committing adultery for 40 years. That's a serious thought. Sure. All right, but you're like, you know, no, no, wait. Guys, marriage is sacred. Before you stand next to someone and say, I do, you better make sure. Like, do your due diligence. And we don't do this anymore. Um, court each other.

SPEAKER_01 15:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:37

You know, date, dating is great in American culture dating, you know.

SPEAKER_01 15:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:41

But court each other. Really find out about the other person, their likes, their dislikes, their needs, their wants, their desires, their plans, their you know, and you're gonna have to fight to make it work. Look, just saying, oh well, we argue and getting a divorce is wrong.

SPEAKER_02 16:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:02

It's wrong. Um, you gotta suck it up and move forward.

SPEAKER_05 16:05

And you know clearly not one of the uh allowances that Jesus makes for divorce.

SPEAKER_00 16:11

Right. It's not. The the only three reasons, um, biblically given is death. Okay, until death do us part. Does that sound familiar, people? Yeah, right. Uh death. All of us married people have said those words. Exactly. Yeah. For better or for worse, richer or poorer, sickness and health, uh, until death do us part. I do, which means I do you, you do me, we don't do anybody else. That's what that means, right? Right. And and it's forever. It is, it is until you leave this planet, right? Um, but have three bad months, and the first thing people want to do is get a divorce instead of work it out because nobody wants to serve each other. That's what marriage is about, actually, serving one another and becoming together as one, which is the love-making act.

SPEAKER_05 16:56

So what are these other two allowances there um for divorce?

SPEAKER_00 17:01

So Matthew 5, sexual immorality, yeah. Uh also 1 Corinthians 7, Paul says, if you are married to an unbeliever, right? If you're married to an unbeliever, and that unble unbeliever chooses to leave, let them go. Because God would rather you live in peace.

SPEAKER_05 17:16

So I think that that brings up a uh another kind of somewhat controversial subject, abuse. Um and you know, we we're we're all we often think that abuse is also an allowance uh for divorce, which I would argue is, but I think that's tied in with what Paul said. I think that any man that would choose to put his hands on a woman, on his wife, is not a follower of Christ.

SPEAKER_00 17:45

That's not a follower of Christ. Right. No, if someone can beat their wife, uh, or be if a a wife can mentally abuse her husband, and there's different types of abuse, sure, um, and can be um um conniving and deceitful and manipulative and destroy uh everything about him through ways that they can too, um, that is not an a believer because it goes against everything. It's a works of the flesh, Galatians 5, right? It's the works of the flesh. Um and if they're constantly working that without any repentance, and that's not that's a non-believer. So this is why I say if you are married to someone, this is Chris James speaking, if you are married to someone who is physically, mentally, emotionally abusive to you, you you can be married to them, but you don't have to live under the same roof as they do, right? Um, and you know, and you gotta you gotta take that with whatever you take it. Yeah, get away from them. Don't stay there, get away. Um, but going back to this adultery part of it, um, that's what's at stake when people get married and divorced and remarried. And there's people who've been remarried four or five times. Like, what do you do with that? Well, you gotta look at the committing adultery part of it, what Jesus is saying here. And when you look at the heart of adultery, no one is innocent, is what he's saying. Yeah now, we know how men commit adultery, right? How it starts by the way you think, um, you know, lusting after someone. I had a wise mentor one time say, men are like uh microwaves, women are like crock pots, right? And that's the way it happens. Um, with women, the frontal lobe is how they um imagine things. And and for them, it adultery in the heart may look like this. They get in infatuation with a coworker that listens to them better than their husband does. And so now they start etching out time with that co-worker to tell them things that they're not confiding in their husband with, and they're fantasizing about that. That's adultery in the heart. You've committed adultery. All right, so when it goes right into committing adultery into the heart and cutting it off, right into someone divorcing someone um other than sexual immorality. So the only way um to break the marriage covenant in guy's eyes when you're together and you're both married and you're both Christians and believers, is through sexual immorality. Now, that right there tells you how deep it is. If God Himself, now this is a bilateral covenant, this is not Susan Vaschill, it's not uh unconditional covenant, this is a bilateral, there are conditions. If God who hates divorce, as we have read, I think it's Jeremiah that said that, um, if he said that this is a reason for you to divorce, it needs to be looked at. Like, what is that? All right, so um, and I know I probably can't say this on on your the air right here, but if people have problems looking at something they shouldn't look at. Yeah. Okay, let's just say that. If a man has a problem with looking at something that he he shouldn't look at, that's adultery. You've committed adultery against your wife. Right. That's serious.

SPEAKER_05 21:03

If she catches you looking at that, which I think is a very important distinction. Like when whenever we say sexual immorality, we're not merely talking about cheating on your spouse. Right. We're talking about any form of sexual immorality. And as we know uh from as we know pornography is a form of sexual immorality. Yes, not just for the participants in the pornography, but for those the consumer.

SPEAKER_00 21:31

Right.

SPEAKER_05 21:31

That is a form of sexual immorality. So if that's the case, then that is is is spiritual grounds for divorce.

SPEAKER_00 21:41

Absolutely. If a wife catches her husband pleasing himself, okay, that's sexual immorality. That's adultery. Right. Yeah, and that's why I'm saying it's not just involving another person. You're and why I'm just gonna go on why in just a second. You're taking away what only belongs to your wife. Okay. So let's let's go into this. What does First Corinthians seven tell us? Actually, I'll flip over there to it. Because it needs to be read. Um, because uh God created marriage um for two to become one. So you the gift of sexual things, making love, is a gift that you give to somebody else. It's not a gift that you harbor to yourself and you entertain for yourself, right? Um principles of marriage, uh, 1 Corinthians 7. And this is where it all starts with adultery, is when and it's crazy. It's uh I've never seen this before um as rampant as it is now, when it's like people are dating, um, because I was a I was a student pastor for you know almost 20 years before I became a pastor, and um the adults have more problems than the children do, I'm seeing now. But it was all about dating and sex, like no sex one day, and then and the sex was running rampant in dating until they got married. When they got married, no more sex. It stops, it just stopped. Like, you know, when you counsel someone and and or a couple, and they're like, Yeah, we've only made love twice in six months. I'm like, excuse me. Um, and I look over the man and say, How are you relieving yourself? And he looks at me going, don't don't don't don't go into that, right? Because that goes down to that's the reason why they're having problems because two are not becoming one. I'm not saying it's all about sex. I'm saying all the outliners, if it's where they're supposed to be, there'll be a healthy sexual relationship. Yeah. Okay, that's what I'm trying to say. Um, verse five um of 1 Corinthians 7 says this do not deprive one another except with consent for a time. Which means I have to go to my wife and say, Hey, we're gonna have to cut it off for a little while. And why? That you may give yourselves to fasting and prayer. That's the only reason to stop having sex or making love to your wife and your husband. Not to use it as a weapon, women. You do, you know you do. Just you use it as a weapon, right? Do what I want you to do. And if you don't, I'm cutting it off, right? Make it make I've had uh ladies say, if you don't make enough money, you know, why should I give myself to someone that can't provide for me? That is a wrong you you are sinning if you do that, okay? Amen. Um it's supposed to be consensual and for fasting and prayer. And there's been a lot of people, married people, that have been fasting and praying for a very, very, very, very long time. Right? And then come back together again so that, this is why, so that Satan does not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. And there's where everybody falls. Yeah, sexless marriages, and Satan is attacking each one of that the wife and the husband, and they are going off and they're doing whatever they want to do to please themselves, and it can include somebody else or just themselves in a dark room. Okay, and that's a problem. But it goes on to say this um, it goes on to say that that uh um men, here it is, your body doesn't belong to you, but to your wife. And ladies, your body doesn't belong to you, it belongs to your husband. So, my question to men, whenever we find them pleasing themselves, okay, and they they talk, I say, Did you get permission from your wife to do that?

SPEAKER_01 25:32

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 25:33

Because you belong to her, that's right. You belong to her, and so the adultery thing goes way it's a it's a root that is way deep.

SPEAKER_05 25:42

And I would say, and and and um maybe you can um clarify with the exact scripture, but uh I believe even in the old testament, uh God kind of issues a decree. Hey, men, you are not to do that.

SPEAKER_00 25:57

Right. Well, you know, yes, there is a spilling your seed on the ground. Yeah, and it was it was uh uh it was in Genesis. Yeah, it was the latter part of Genesis. Very old testament. Yeah, that's the latter part of Genesis, and this was very, very serious. Like I when I saw this, it struck me as a man. I was like, oh, he killed him for not That's right, the the the guy died. He he he died for spilling his seed on the ground. Let that hit you next time you you uh y'all do stuff you ain't supposed to, men, right? Um that right there it hit me about how holy the seed is. And how because the thing is, okay, all right.

SPEAKER_05 26:33

Because it's meant it's meant for the Imago Day. That's right. It's meant for creating the image of God.

SPEAKER_00 26:41

Absolutely. God, and that's a great statement. Check this out. Listen to what he just said. God uses making love to place his image on this planet.

SPEAKER_01 26:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:53

That's big time. Yeah. And we use it as a side attraction for personal pleasure.

SPEAKER_05 27:01

Crazy.

SPEAKER_04 27:03

Can we uh can we liken that over to single people as well? Uh, you know, saving your body for your future wife, uh, any of that activity that's going on before, uh, could we say that that's adultery against your future wife?

SPEAKER_00 27:18

Yeah, you can. You're look, just because you're committing adultery against uh somebody else, and that deepens the adultery as well, because you're involving the image of God into your personal pleasure, right? You're involving a daughter, his daughter, his creation, in your personal pleasure, and it's his his image. Just because you don't know who she's gonna marry does not mean God does not know who she's gonna marry and has her on her path to her husband, right? And so, and I know there's a lot of men out there saying, How how can I can't do that? Yes, you can. Yeah, yes, you can. And the the poor and especially if you're a Christian, man, you you're commanded to.

SPEAKER_05 27:58

Yeah, not only can you, you have to.

SPEAKER_00 28:00

You have to. Part of the fruits of the spirit are self-control. Yeah, he the the Holy Spirit will give you what you need.

SPEAKER_05 28:08

I dare say that that is probably what men struggle with the very most when it comes to the fruit of the spirit is self-control. Self-control. But not just not just about that, the physical act, but about everything. Every single thing. We we fly off the handle at the smallest things because of stress and things like that, which also what we're describing right now, another um byproduct of stress. You know, we we need some kind of relief. We need you know, um, but it's it's a slippery slope right off down into um things of a pornographic nature. Yes. And and I would my personal opinion is that is a gateway, a doorway in which the enemy will use to infiltrate, uh, and I'm talking about believers to infiltrate your spiritual life in order to dull your wit.

SPEAKER_00 29:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 29:03

Um and just, you know, speaking from from personal experience, whenever the kind of the whenever the Lord revealed to me that um, hey, this is actually uh not only a sin, uh, men pleasing themselves, women pleasing themselves, this is not only a sin, it's a grievous act, grievous sin. Um, you know, and the Lord, just just being candid, the Lord uh delivered me from that um some time ago. Uh but when he did, uh and I pray for that, and when he did deliver me from that, the spiritual clarity that comes along with that was nothing short of astounding to me. That's my personal experience.

SPEAKER_04 29:50

Well, you know, and I I believe, and Chris, I think it might have been you that said this in a sermon that um sin is creating an adulterous act against God. Um and any kind of sin like that always creates a separation, a space between us and God. It pushes us further and further away.

SPEAKER_00 30:08

Yes, yes. So Hosea, the prophet Hosea, married Gomer. Gomer was a prostitute. The Lord kept telling um Hosea to take her back and even feed her while she was with another man.

SPEAKER_01 30:20

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 30:21

And um he he was like, Why did you have me marry this adulterous woman? And God response to him was this is the way Israel treats me with her sin every day, and every day I keep taking them back. Wow. Wow.

SPEAKER_05 30:35

And if you're a testament to God's mercy and grace.

SPEAKER_00 30:38

Look, the greatest way to be to to beat yourself into submission to be like Christ, get married. Right? Yeah. Uh it'll show you that that you have to serve a hundred percent, no fifty-fifty is a hundred and a hundred. Um and so this is part of it. Look, it's a beautiful gift. Everybody listen, listen to me. You you hear my voice? The reason you can is because somebody made love and you became here. I mean, it's a beautiful gift, it creates life, and that's the gift that's only for the confines of marriage. Hey, married men, I want to tell you how to defeat adultery. Are you ready? Make love to your wife. Right. Women, I'm gonna tell you how to defeat adultery. Make love to your husband. Make your body sick to think about anybody else other than your husband. What a couple of things. And your wife. And that's how you defeat it. And um, you know, there's a lot of benefits to. Oh my gosh, the the biological and neurological benefits of when a husband and a wife, not a partner, a passerby, and there's many people who are listening who's had one-night stands. It calls hell inside of you. And a lot of reasons a lot of people have problems today is because they had a lot of one-night stands. It's like stripping the flesh from your bones because you became one with that person, neurologically, biologically, everything. You became one. There are some chemicals released in uh the pine oil gland of the brain during uh sexual intercourse. Uh, you got your dopamine and you got your oxytocin, and there's one other that I can't recall, but the oxytocin is the same chemical that's released in a mother when that child is placed on her chest right after birth. It is the family bonding chemical. You're becoming bonded to that person. And that's why whenever you're the person that you were never meant to be bonded to. Exactly. If you're not married to this person and you break up and it feels like you're coming off of a drug, it's because you are. And it's like it's like ripping the flesh from your bones, is what it's like. And that's why it's so hard to come from that. But this is the thing that God did not design is that you make love to someone and then separate. That's not what he designed it for. So when you're married, and I think it was a Harvard medical study, it was done in 2005. Um, it stated that um married couples who engage regularly. Now, listen, there is a romantic rhythm, men. Remember, I said you are like microwaves, five seconds ready to go. That is not women. It takes a while, right? There's a romantic rhythm in all things. You have to learn to be patient with your wife and your one, you have to learn to be patient. And when that rhythm is finally there and it's time to uh make love, there is more benefits and one night of love making in that one moment, what it does biologically to you than 12 different pills can touch. Wow. Like, because if you take one pill, it dampens this over here. So you gotta take another pill to take that. And it was like amazing benefits. And people who um engage in their wife and their husband regularly in love making have less to almost zero stress, right? Depression. And you want the greatest antidepressant drug on the planet, is what God gave in in making love with your husband and wife. Yeah, like depression no more, anxiety no more. Um, and that's the thing. Christians should be the happiest people on the planet. And we're like the most miserable.

SPEAKER_02 34:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:08

Um, and and also the enemy's so slick. He uses trauma to keep wives from sleeping with their husbands because they've been traumatized by sexual experiences in the past that they weren't supposed to be engaged in, and now their husbands are paying for it. Right. And also on the flip side, when men make love to themselves and make love to cell phones from the time they're 10 to the time they're 20, and all of a sudden a real one, and they I've never slept with a woman, yeah, but you've been sleeping with yourself since you were 10. And now when a real woman gets a hold of you, or you get a hold of her, your wife, your body can't respond because you trained it neurologically, trained it um only to be pleased by you and a cell phone. That's so dangerous. I've had to counsel young men who cannot they're acting like they're 80-year-olds when it comes to making love. Wow. Not to there may be some ADOs that they're doing great out there. Right. You keep Father Abraham in it, brother. Keep going. But there may be some out there that are hearing me right now, and you're like, that's why I can't make love to my wife. And you're 20-something. All right. You're going to have to reset your brain, which means there's a lot of you out there that need to have a conversation with your wife. And look, wives, there are many of you out there who need to have a conversation with your husband and say the reason why I'm so distant from you because all these things I went through in the past, heal together. Have these conversations. Rest in your wife. If you're out there and you have a porn addiction and you and you please yourself, go grab your wife and tell her and let her help you. Yeah, that's what she's there for, right?

SPEAKER_05 35:47

And yeah, I would I would also encourage wives, like if your husband is vulnerable enough to come to you with that issue, don't immediately cast him aside. Um, you know, if if there's if there's repentance, if there's repentance in him, um, then let the Lord do his work and and come alongside him and help him through that. But uh before we, you know, get too close to wrapping up here, I want to I want to kind of go back a little bit to the um the divorced uh people and are they or are they not committing adultery with their new spouses? So what what can they do? Is is repentance right there, is repentance available for them in that moment um to then have their new marriage ordained by God under a covenant?

SPEAKER_00 36:41

I would say absolutely with scripture, yes. And I want to tell you why. Okay, you gotta understand and ask this question Is adultery an act or a state of being? Right? We know that when we're saved, uh which salvation, God made it so easy. Confess with your mouth, believe in your heart. Jesus Christ, you shall be saved. That easy. If you think there's more than that, go look at the thief on the cross and then come back to me. Okay? Right. So when you become a child of God, you become a new creation. And in scripture, it tells us Hebrews chapter 10, verse 14. Yes, 1014 says this is that um with Christ's one sacrifice, he has paid the penalty and put to death the penalty of sin forever for those who are being sanctified. Right? So I am I'm in my sanctification. Through Christ's death, he has paid for every single sin from the beginning of the moment I was created on this planet to the end of the moment that I leave this planet, my sin nature, and thank God sin is only confined for 80 years or so. Thank you, God. I cannot wait to get out of this this body of death. But he's paid that penalty. You didn't pay for it, he did. He didn't pay for your penalty of divorce. I mean, you didn't pay for your penalty for divorce, he did. Okay, and so there's forgiveness there. And first Corinthians 7 tells us that we if we are married right now, we are to stay in that marriage, right? Don't go get a divorce. Why, why uh uh break a covenant because you broke a covenant? Makes no sense. All right, yeah, right? So understand that those past marriages, that covenant's broken. It's broken. So what you need to do is repent. And what that means is acknowledge to God that he's right uh about the view of covenant. Yeah, and maybe, just maybe, some of you need to call an ex-husband or an ex-wife and ask for forgiveness. Because he also talks about that, Jesus talks about that in Matthew chapter 5. Yeah. If your brother has anything against you and you know that, um, and you're giving an offering, leave your offering at the altar and go and make it right with them. Because he's all about that. And also understand that in forgiveness, I promise you, some of you out there listening, if you would just get on your knees and ask God to forgive you of breaking those covenants, whether you're an adulterer, whether whether, whether you didn't do anything wrong in your your mind, um, but it was something broken, that that the Lord would forgive you for uh for that, and that he would bless this covenant that you're under right now. Yeah. And that you would give yourself, your all to your husband, and your all to your wife. If you're addicted to pornography, put it down and cling to your wife. Let go of past relationships and focus on your husband now and your wife now, and then move forward in that covenant, making sure that you move forward in the way that's supposed to be moved forward in sacrecy. That would be my my advice.

SPEAKER_05 39:53

Yeah, and I and I believe that God honors that as long as we're coming to Him with a penitent heart and saying, Okay, Lord, I I I sinned against you, I broke a covenant. Um, but I am here on my knees. I'm I'm penitent, and I want to make it right, and I want to establish a new covenant with you. Uh I think that's where God's honored in that.

SPEAKER_00 40:16

Yes, and you know, um uh first chronicles where second chronicles um Solomon gave the temple and and God says something about like forgiving of sins that are so amazing. If if you will come to me and repent, I'll be faithful and just to forgive you of your sins. But this is different, not only forgiving, he says, and then I will take them and I'll cast them far away from you as the East is from the West. That's that's a big picture he's pointing right here. He's saying, Look, not only will I forgive them, I will take them away from you. How how many people are being burdened in pain with condemnation and depression and anxiety off of a broken marriage? And they carry that with them in their new marriage every single day. But that's the gift of forgiveness. He says, I know that, I know that's burdening you, so I'm gonna take it from you.

SPEAKER_02 41:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:14

And then I'm gonna cast it away from you as far as the East is from the West. And here's the other part I will remember them no more.

SPEAKER_02 41:22

Right.

SPEAKER_00 41:22

Which means when you go back to them, and or when you go to heaven, he ain't gonna look at you and go, I might let you in, but that divorce in 1984, you know what I'm saying? No, he forgot about it. He has no clue. Yeah, he's forgotten. Um, he's the only one that can do that. Yeah, and so and also remember what Jesus said in John 3. Um, he said that for God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, now whoever believes in him should never perish but have everlasting life. But it goes on to say right after that, for God did not send his son in the world to condemn it, but the world through him might be saved. That condemnation that you're feeling, uh, if you're forgiven of it, you're gonna have to renew your mind because that's the enemy trying to get you back into that pit.

SPEAKER_02 42:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:05

God forgot about it once he's forgiven it. Right. And that's a great thing. Only our only our father can do that.

SPEAKER_05 42:10

Amen to that, man. And I I'd also say that like the the first step in all of this is honesty. I don't think there's a man sitting in this room right right here across three marriages right here, who has not experienced a moment where they had to get real and honest with their wife.

SPEAKER_00 42:25

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 42:26

And and painfully so. Painfully so. I mean, you know, can anybody testify in the room? I know I can. Absolutely. It's freeing. It's absolutely freeing. It is, man, because um you hit it on the head, man. You're carrying stuff with you into relationships that uh if you would only just confess those things, confess those past failures, confess those sins, first before the Lord, and then before your spouse, um, God's gonna renew your mind, your heart, and your covenant uh with him, not with not only him, but with your spouse. I think that's that's huge. Yes, um, and I think it's an encouragement for people who are struggling with this because uh I know there's a lot of people out there when you when you preach that sermon, there's a lot of people who are like, hey, I'm divorced and I'm remarried. Am I sinning by being remarried? Uh and so I think I think that clarity is um is much needed in society. But also, you know, as we wrap up right here, my encouragement for for people who are um you know newly married, for people who are struggling in their marriage, maybe and they're thinking to themselves, like this ain't worth it. I'm not happy anymore. Um stick it out, pray together, get to know your spouse better. Even if you've been married for 50 years and you're thinking about throwing in the towel, there's there's some area of your spouse that you don't know. That's right. And you need to get there, you need to seek it out. You need to do it with God's help, though. Uh He's the only one that can find. Fix it. Just like we say in at the end of all of these podcasts that we do, Jesus is the only way forward. Yes. He's the only answer.

SPEAKER_00 44:07

And and we're all in this boat together. And that's what he was talking about in Matthew 5 when it comes to adultery. You could be married to the same person for 30 years and be just as guilty as the one who's been married five times.

SPEAKER_02 44:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:20

Because it's a state of the heart.

SPEAKER_02 44:22

Right.

SPEAKER_00 44:22

And so it's not uh the question is not who's justified. The question is who is not guilty. Right.

unknown 44:29

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 44:30

Before we wrap up, um I saw a lot of unmarried couples during that sermon. Uh, you know, it was a lot of head nodding, and then when you hit the single stuff, didn't. Uh and I've I've got a few that are in my Bible study that are trying to practice uh abstaining uh before marriage. What kind of uh advice would you give to them before entering into the covenant of marriage?

SPEAKER_00 44:56

Oh, that's good. That's good. All right. So I'm I'm gonna say that by saying this. I'm not someone that doesn't know. All right. I was um deployed a year away from my wife, okay? And I had to practice this, um, abstaining even while I was married. And so uh you got it, you got to the my advice to give to you is like number one, you gotta realize that it's an issue. All right, and understand the only way that you're gonna stop is through God's grace alone. He's got to take it from you. Okay, and it's a it's a practice. It's you've practiced it to start it, you have to practice to stop it. Okay. And so um it's gonna be a process. If you fail and mess up, don't beat yourself up. Ask for forgiveness. Forgiveness is there. That's the kindness of the Lord. He leads us to repentance, okay? Right, and then keep moving forward. And what you're going to find is that the more that you train yourself not to do it, the less and less and less it's gonna be. But this is the key in training yourself. Seek harder after God than you are concentrating on not doing it. Okay. And grow your relationship with the Lord. Use there's inward, outward, and corporate spiritual disciplines. You need to fast if you must. You need to pray, and you need to read scripture. And the more you read scripture, that will fill your mind up more than those lustful thoughts, and you'll feel it coming on, and you'll have to do something that our world does not like us to do. Say no. Yeah, no, go look yourself in the mirror, man, and go, no, I'm not doing it today. Go take a cold shower, go for a run, go lift weights, get off the couch and off your phone and say no. Don't put yourself in those positions. Look, I I would have to go outside and sit outside until I started to fall asleep, right? I would we had uh Holy Smokes, which was the cigar club um for uh our a small group over overseas, and it was uh cigars with a chaplain. And I was able to get free cigars from Cigar for Warriors. Shout out Cigar for Warriors, thank you. Um that's cool. But uh, I would go outside and I would smoke a cigar and I would talk to everybody else passing by, so I didn't have time to think.

SPEAKER_02 47:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:15

And if it was a hard night that night, I I could not FaceTime my wife. I couldn't do it. I can't look at her, can't even see her face. Yeah, right. And and I would have to do whatever I had to do to go right in and go to sleep. Um, you have to fight it with all you've got. You have got to make war with your sin. Okay. And when you date, set expectations. Have a conversation, men, with that girl. Okay, you're gonna be a leader. You tell them, I'm celebrate, I'm waiting on my wife. What you want to happen is that you can go to her wedding and shake her husband's hand, and that husband can look at you and say, Thank you for taking care of my wife while she was dating you. Right? Wives, same thing with the guy you're dating. You would want to go to his wedding and that wife be able to shake your hand because you don't know if you're going to marry that person or not. Only God does. But let me tell you something. If you save yourself, and look, I'm telling you, save yourself. Run if you must. If you go to take them out on a date and they smell like a basket full of roses, and you're like, I can't tonight, you better turn and run. I'll FaceTime you. We'll we'll watch it together on the screen on the sheer time or whatever. You know, you better get away. But that's why also, and this goes down another road, too. I hate long courtships. I can't stand it. Um, because you're setting yourself up for failure. Yeah, you're setting yourself up. That's why, single, you need to know what you're looking for. You need to know exactly A, B, and C. This is what I'm looking for. And I ain't talking about six-foot blind eyed, uh, blue, blue-eyed, blind hair, make a hundred thousand a year. That's that's a bunch of junk. I'm talking about standards. Yeah, I'm talking about ethics, I'm talking about morals. I'm talking about being equally yoked together. Um, who he'll be a good daddy and a good husband. I'm talking about that, okay? I'm not talking about all that other stuff. Guys, same thing goes with you. Be a good wife and a good mother, right? What are you looking for? You better know. And when you don't see it, you better stop it.

SPEAKER_01 49:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:14

Um, and stop being so afraid to break up with each other. You know, if if they're not the ones that's meant for you, that's why we have so many divorces. People get married anyway, thinking they're going to fix them. Yeah. And that's not gonna happen. Never happened, ever. Right? Trust the Lord in the process. That's how you do it.

SPEAKER_05 49:29

Amen, man. That's good good encouragement right there, man. Um and this is such a such a needed, badly needed discussion to have within our society because so much of our problems, um, so many things that plague our society come from this very place. And um, man, my encouragement for everybody out here who's struggling with these things that we're we've discussed today, first and foremost, you need to go before the Lord. You need to go before the Lord and ask for his help in these areas. I can speak from personal experience when I say he will answer you, he will answer the call. Um and pray for that conviction. That's right.

SPEAKER_04 50:13

Ask for that conviction.

SPEAKER_05 50:15

Conviction, while it is uncomfortable, it is so necessary, and you will be so thankful that you went through that fire when you come out the other side sanctified. Um, we're already justified, but we got to go through that sanctification process.

SPEAKER_00 50:32

Um, so and guys, let me tell you, when you do get married and you put it in the right place, and those who are married are not having making love, when you do it and you put it in the right place, there is a bliss and a serenity and a safeness in that oneness. Get there. That's part of the Christian journey.

SPEAKER_05 50:50

Yeah, amen to that, brother. Chris, thanks so much for being here again, man. Really appreciate your insight, your wisdom on these things. And we're just getting started here, man. Nick Smith, love you, man.

SPEAKER_04 51:02

Love you too, brother.

SPEAKER_05 51:02

Thanks for watching. Love you, Chris. You too, man. And for you guys watching, guys and gals watching, thank you so much for tuning in today. Uh, we really appreciate all your support. If you would like to support us financially, we really we also really appreciate that. You can go to patreon.com slash tofer brown and you will find your way to uh help support us. And we we so appreciate your support because it helps us get this message out to more people. And uh ultimately that's why we do it. We don't we're not here chasing clout, we're not here trying to be social media influencers, we don't give a rip about that. What we care about is Jesus. And so if this uh podcast helps get Jesus' name out to the rest of the world, then we're gonna keep doing it, baby. Love you guys. Thank you uh for your support, and we will see you next time.