SPEAKER_00 0:00

There's a lot of skeptics and critics out there of the Bible that question the authenticity of the history of it. And they ask questions like, um, how can we trust something that was written so long ago? Was it written by who it says it was written by? What about Jesus? Did he exist and did he really perform all those miracles? But if you think about it, only one of two things can be true. Either this is the most sophisticated hoax in all of human history perpetrated by the greatest con men you've ever heard of, or the story is true, and all of it really happened. Let's discuss that. This is the Topher Brown show. Hey everybody, welcome back to the Topher Brown show. Appreciate you tuning in, watching wherever you're watching from, listening from wherever you're listening from. Today we're going to talk about some myths, some popular myths about the scriptures, about the Bible. Um, and we're gonna try our best to debunk uh some of those things. These are some popular myths that you've heard of from books like the Da Vinci Code, really all of the Dan Brown material, uh, the History Channel, the secrets of Nostradamus, and all of these, all of these things. Uh there's a lot of myths out there about what the Bible is. Um maybe we're gonna talk about some books that were deleted, quote unquote, from the Bible. Uh, we're gonna talk about all that today. We're gonna get into all of the tinfoil hat conspiracies about the Bible today. Um, and to help me do that is my co-host, Mr. Nick Smith. How you doing, bud? All pretty good.

SPEAKER_01 1:53

Good morning, Vietnam. That came out of no letter. Wait a minute now. Uh sorry. Uh howdy, howdy, America.

SPEAKER_00 2:04

I mean, it's entirely possible that we have some Vietnamese listeners, so that's you know for sure. That could be a thing. Check the stats. Okay. We'll check the stats on that. Um, how's it going in there, uh, Stevie Wonder? Everything going well for you in there? I mean, it's windy outside, I can tell you that. Yeah, the weather has been crazy. Uh, yesterday it was in the upper 70s, low 80s, and this morning it was in the 40s with hail on the ground. Absolutely. So that's Mississippi for you, ladies and gentlemen. Don't visit. Um, let me ask you, Nick, how many of these how what's your experience with this? Uh, we we grew up in the same time frame, we're we're the same age. So I remember all of these shows on the History Channel and A and E about banned books from the Bible and all of these, all of these things. You recall seeing any of that growing up?

SPEAKER_01 3:06

Oh, yeah. Uh, and also disclaimer, you're older than me. Uh but yeah, I mean, it the History Channel was littered with that stuff growing up.

SPEAKER_00 3:14

Yeah, man. And it it was like it was like this cultural phenomenon that happened that like, you know, were we being are we are we being lied to about the scriptures and all the things that we've uh been taught as Christians? And I also one of the big things is um what what is this going to do uh to people's faith going forward? That's always the tagline. Well, it's gonna suppress the gospel, is what it's gonna do. Hey, now we're getting into it. Uh, to help us talk about these things, you're getting two Bratties for the price of one. We've got Brother Bruce Braddy returning for a second time on the podcast, and his son Hank Williams Jr.

SPEAKER_03 3:56

Braddy. No, man, I'm doing my best, Nick Smith. Howdy, howdy America.

SPEAKER_00 4:02

Oh, that's what you're going for. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:05

I'm gonna take these off now. No, this is Stolen Balor, my friend. Stolen Balor.

SPEAKER_00 4:11

So funny. This is our good friend and good friend to the show, Mr. Wyatt Braddy, coming back for his three. Count them three third time. Yeah, man.

SPEAKER_03 4:20

Y'all need to get some new guests.

SPEAKER_00 4:22

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:23

Our pool is quite shallow. Just kidding. Thanks for having me back, fellers. It's always fun.

SPEAKER_01 4:28

When you start with the best, it's kind of hard to go backwards. That's right.

SPEAKER_02 4:31

Oh, that was that was nice.

SPEAKER_00 4:33

One of the one of the most most viewed episodes. Um and coincidentally, one of the most um non-viewed episodes was your second appearance.

SPEAKER_04 4:43

I see.

SPEAKER_00 4:44

Nobody liked the Super Bowl episode. Let's just throw that out there. Go for it. It's okay. That's okay. We came in, we came in a little late on that. I liked it.

SPEAKER_03 4:51

I laughed the whole time. I thought it was great. If you're into dumb humor, then that's the episode for you. That was the one. That's the one.

SPEAKER_00 4:59

Talking about the puppy bowl. Well, I'm I've got you guys here not so much as experts on this subject, uh, but just kind of get your reaction uh on some of this stuff, because it's all it's all stuff that people will will bring up whenever you are uh discussing the authenticity of of the Bible and discussing your faith. We in the Christian world like to call this uh apologetics. It's the defense of our faith. As a matter of fact, in 1 Peter 3 15, we're actually commanded to do so. Um and that says, But in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you. And here's a part that people skip over a lot, yet do it with great gentleness and respect. That's kind of the issue that that I've experienced, and maybe you guys too, but on on online on social media, when you get into these uh conversations with non-believers, um, it can quickly go to a place of uh anger. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 6:09

Last thing you want to do is put a wedge between them and the gospel. Right.

SPEAKER_00 6:13

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 6:14

It gets very confrontational oftentimes. Yeah, you know what we're trying and screaming at each other.

SPEAKER_00 6:18

We're trying to communicate, just like First Peter says, that we have this hope that resides within us. We're trying to communicate that clearly, and sometimes that is uh making a defense of the gospel. Um, because as we know, there are people out there, and there are probably people listening to this podcast right now who simply don't believe these things to be true. And maybe it's due to some of these myths that they've heard uh about the Bible and quote unquote experts telling you um, you know, they're they're giving you their take on what is truth and what is not.

SPEAKER_02 6:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:54

So we're gonna jump into like I've got eight myths right here. And if you're um if you're unfamiliar, I I am currently in the middle of doing a gospel series at our church where we're talking about the canonical gospels. If you don't know what canonical means, it's referring to canon, um, which is the uh accepted books of our sacred texts, aka the Bible. It's Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. We're going through Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John at our church right now, and uh this is uh very, very kind of small part of the first session that we had the other night, and uh we're we're kind of debunking some of these myths. So I'm gonna list these out for you guys, talk about it briefly, and just kind of get y'all's take on these things. Cool with you? Sure. Sure.

SPEAKER_02 7:45

Can I uh I would interject there just a little bit, if I may, sure. Uh in in approaching uh those who have questions or would like to debate, being gracious about it. Uh not cutting them any slack, yeah, but but being gracious about it, because like I say, you don't want to drive a wedge between them and the gospel. The last thing you want is for them to walk away saying that well, that's what being a Christian is like. I'm not interested. Exactly. Yeah. You know, and so being gracious, uh, but also being forthright with them. You know, uh a lot of times having been on a college campus for 26 years, I had a lot of students challenge me along these same lines, and my first question or first statement was, Well, I'm so glad to know that you've read the Bible. And then they get a panic look on their face because they've never read it. Right. They just have an opinion of it, but they've never read it.

SPEAKER_00 8:40

They probably heard a sound bite from somewhere. They heard it sounded cool. They they heard um a quote, uh a cool quote from a uh quote unquote expert. Right. Right. Perhaps a um self-proclaimed scholar somewhere. Uh a YouTuber. Yeah, a YouTuber.

SPEAKER_02 8:58

We gotta be gracious, bottom line.

SPEAKER_00 8:59

That's exactly right. We we have to approach this from a place of um are we doing this in order to introduce them to the gospel, or are we just trying to be right? Yeah, there you go. Uh we we talk about at church a lot. We talk about you know, when it comes to making a defense of your faith, are you doing it from a place of trying to gain a brother or a sister, or are you being prideful? Yeah, because pride can enter the equation there really, really quickly. No doubt. So we have to be careful of that.

SPEAKER_03 9:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:29

Having said all of that, this big long prelude, we're gonna jump right into them. So the first myth, and this is like one of the most popular ones in my opinion, um the first myth is dealing with the council of Nicaea. Now, this is something that um that was made popular in books like the Da Vinci Code, and this is where kind of a lot of this the whole idea of things being left out of the Bible, things being handpicked from a from a whole pool of uh scriptures. This is kind of where this myth comes from from. But it basically says that in 325 A.D., fourth century, uh church leaders gathered together and essentially invented the Bible that we have today. It says that they gathered up all of the ancient writings, picked through them, decided on what best suited their agenda, their agenda, and declared them to be inspired by God and thus canon. Um this was made popular in the Da Vinci Code. Um if you guys have seen that movie or read that book, this was a huge kind of plot point for that. And um here's the truth of that the Council of Nicaea was very much a real thing. I don't know if you guys have looked into this at all, but it was very much a real thing. It was called by Emperor Constantine in 325 AD in the city of Nicaea, modern day Turkey. It was comprised of several Christian bishops and early church fathers. And the main objective was to settle disputes about Christian beliefs. So we're not, they were absolutely not hand-picking what scriptures what it was was a guy uh named Arias, who's a priest from Alexandria, and he was teaching his congregation that Jesus was created by God and therefore not equal to God the Father. His main opponent in that debate was a guy named Athanasius. Uh he and others argued that Jesus is fully divine and of the same stuff substance as the Father. Ultimately, the council voted to condemn Arianism and Arius' teachings as heretical. And it also resulted in the res uh in the writing of the Nicene Creed. Have you guys heard of the Nicene Creed? It's quoted a lot in churches. Um, and I'll I'll read it for you right here. We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible, and in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the only begotten, begotten of the Father before all ages, light of light, true God of true God, begotten, not made, of one essence with the Father, by whom all things were made, for who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven, and was the incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, and became man, and he was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate, and suffered and was buried. And the third day he rose again according to the scriptures, and ascended into heaven, and sits at the right hand of the Father, and he shall come again with glory to judge the living and the dead, whose kingdom shall have no end, and in the Holy Spirit. Amen and amen.

SPEAKER_01 12:55

Sounds pretty uh spot on. Is there anything mythical within that?

SPEAKER_00 12:58

Uh nope, that is that was the scriptures that they had on hand that are informing that that creed. Gotcha. But but see, this is this is the issue with with m with this particular myth, is that uh we you quoted earlier in a previous podcast that there's nothing new under the sun. It was the same for the early church as it is now. There are people debating different theological viewpoints. Sure. That is exactly what was happening with the Council of Nicaea. And I I would argue that the same thing happens even today. And you gotta you gotta go to bat for what you believe. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 13:41

I agree a hundred percent. You know, and I think there's an element of the population out there that are genuine seekers, they genuinely want answers.

SPEAKER_04 13:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:52

And others have already determined what the answer is, and they work hard to support what they want. Yes. Uh, and that's that's the major difference. What can serve their purpose? Sure, that's right. I I don't want to have to answer to God, therefore I don't believe any of the Bible.

SPEAKER_00 14:10

That's right. Um, it it's exactly what they were dealing with then, and and it's exactly what we deal with now. We have we had a one of our most popular podcast episodes was on false prophets and and fake prophets. Um and there's nothing different about what we're experiencing right now with those guys and gals. No doubt. They are preaching a false gospel. Yep. Um they are preaching things that are outside the scope of the holy scriptures. Um and it's it's it's kind of cool to me that they were dealing with that even back then, fourth century. You know. Nothing's changed. Nothing's changed.

SPEAKER_02 14:53

The enemy still uses those same tactics. That's exactly right. It's not very creative.

SPEAKER_00 14:57

That's exactly right. We'll blow through some of these because some of them are um are worth more discussion than others. But here's another one that one person wrote or edited the entire Bible. This attributes the writing of scripture to a central authority figure like a king or emperor, often attributed to Emperor Constantine. Constantine is, after all, the person who called the Council of Nicaea. But the truth is the Bible was written by dozens of authors, anywhere from 35 to 40, over 1500 years, uh, over fifteen hundred years in different cultures and languages, specifically Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:41

Apart from a divine breathed, divinely inspired word of God is impossible. Right. It's a a literal impossibility that that book exists and uh all the cross-references and you know it's airtight because man didn't write it.

SPEAKER_02 16:00

Sure, and not not only over uh such a a long period of time, right, but geographically different locations in a time where you couldn't pick up the phone and say, hey, I want to pick up on that story that you wrote last week.

SPEAKER_00 16:14

Exactly. You know, exactly. Here's another really good one. The Bible has been heavily changed over time. The myth states that the original message has been lost due to copying and editing. This is the this is the big critique of the different versions of the Bible. Yeah. Um aka the world's largest game of telephone. Y'all remember that game? Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:39

No, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 16:40

This is this is just an old uh children's game you would play. Uh-huh. Whisper something in somebody's gonna be able to do it. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I I remember now. This is this is kind of how they attribute um this to this myth. Uh but the truth is, while there are some slight variations in some versions, the vast number of ancient manuscripts that we possess allow scholars to identify the original wording with an extreme degree of confidence. And here's the here's the big one. The core doctrine is unchanged. Right. Even even with all these different, and we all have our like favorites, our preferences. You know, I'm a I'm a English standard version guy. I'm a new American standard guy, which is very close to the ESV. You know, our pastor is a new King James guy. Um, there's plenty of folks out there in NIV and the whole and and granted, like let's be real, there are some that might ought to stay away from the passion translation.

SPEAKER_02 17:46

I would say making sure that it's a translation and not a paraphrase. Yes. World of difference. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 17:53

I saw a video recently and I don't know who to attribute it to, but they've essentially set it up on a sliding scale of word-for-word translation and thought-for-thought translation, where it's basically like you said, uh the thought for thought would be more of a paraphrase, you know. The the the message bible is the one that says the beatitudes as you're blessed when blah blah blah blah blah, you're blessed when you know. And then you go to the word-for-word translations and they're literally blessed or. Yes. Not when you do something. Yes. But blessed R. Yes. But the who do this and that. Right. Yeah. And that for me was uh a bit of an eye-opener as as far as like it really is just about reading different versions and and and I think using them as tools. You know, maybe if you're reading something in the New American Standard Version that you don't quite understand, you can go to that NIV that will put it in a little bit plainer English. That's great. And make it make it a little easier for you to understand. I have six different Bibles at the house, and I'll crack them all open. You know, I'll crack them all open, and not to mention the Bible app where it's like, I really don't understand this. And then I will open up the message Bible.

SPEAKER_00 19:07

And you and you have unlimited uh access to all of the verses. All for free. Yeah, for free. For free. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:14

Yeah, and and a lot of them, they're great, just kind of used as a commentary.

SPEAKER_02 19:18

Yes, yes. You know, and when you when you consider that we're we're trying to translate Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek into English.

SPEAKER_04 19:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:27

Just going from one language to the other in the ancient versions of those uh, you know, to borrow the old term lost in translation. Yeah. Uh, but there are biblical scholars that are so good at putting it into terms that we can understand with the English language. One of my favorite translations for study is the amplified Bible. Uh, and it is really good. It gives you every nuance of that word, but in English. Yep. Yep. And it makes for a much longer read, but often it helps me grasp better just what that passage is saying. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 20:04

And of course, there are um there are some that that are gonna have some problems, like and I'm specifically kind of thinking about the the passion translation, yeah. Um, which is not a translation, it is a reinterpretation or a paraphrase. And you know, you can do a little digging. Living Bible, you can do a little uh research and see, you know, which versions were copied from um the original manuscripts, or I'm sorry, translated from the original manuscripts and which ones were translated from prior translations. Right.

SPEAKER_02 20:37

And you can get stuck, if you're not careful, you'll get stuck in saying mine's the only one. Exactly. You know, I know I've known guys that say, Well, I'll only preach the King James. Right. And I'm thinking, well, it's not the original because that's like reading a prologue to the Canterbury Testament. Right.

SPEAKER_00 20:53

And correct me if I'm wrong, the King James was was translated from Latin. Am I that's correct, from the Latin voulat. Not from the Greek. So um there's gonna be some kind of variations in translation there. Uh since the the Latin was translated from the Greek. Then now you have a translation of a translation. Right. And the Old Testament into Latin and into English.

SPEAKER_02 21:18

So do a little bit two steps in the process. So do a little digging.

SPEAKER_01 21:21

I mean I do a little there's a new chosen Bible, I believe, as well. Uh I believe there is. Um, and as a reference source, go check out Mike Winger's uh analysis on that. He does a great thing about the harmonies in there. Um that's that's a good watch, good listen. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 21:41

We can't shout out Mike Winger enough on this podcast. I mean, he's one of my faves, man. Absolutely. Um, all right, moving on. All right, here's the one. Like if we don't if we don't get to any of the other ones, this is the one. The church removed books that threatened its power. AKA the big bad boogeyman, the Gnostic Gospels. All right. So this is the myth that gos gospels, quote unquote, for those who are listening, Gospels like Thomas, the Gospel of Thomas, the Gospel of Mary, and et cetera, were suppressed because they uh challenged church authority. There are around 52 Gnostic texts, many of which claim to be quote unquote gospels. Some of famous include the Gospel of Thomas, Gospel of Mary Magdalene, Gospel of Philip, Gospel of Truth, Gospel of Judas, even. But here's the truth. These writings appeared much later, and they lacked apostolic authorship and early widespread use, which is the criteria for canon recognition. I think this is the this is where people get tripped up, is the scriptures that we have in our current Bible, uh, those did not just get chosen out of a hat. And they did not get chosen because the church, quote unquote, had a certain agenda. These scriptures were already in wide circulation. Right, right. Before our current Bible was ever compiled together. They were already being taught broadly across the early church. Um they uh the last I looked, uh and and I better know this because I'm doing a series on the gospels. You know, Mark is our Mark is our earliest gospel, and I it it was written somewhere between 50 and 70 A.D. Um that those four canonical gospels and the writings of Paul were were being widely circulated uh in the first century A.D.

SPEAKER_02 23:55

Right.

SPEAKER_00 23:55

Um, less than a hundred years after Jesus had ascended.

SPEAKER_02 24:00

Not a whole lot of change or adaptation to suit people at the point. And of course people still dying for their faith at the time.

SPEAKER_00 24:07

Yes, exactly. Of course, the Old Testament uh was was already common, like nobody really refutes the old the authenticity of the Old Testament. It's the New Testament they refute, right? Right, right. Because the Old Testament was already just white, just worldwide at this point, or middle, Middle East worldwide, I guess we should say. There was no other world at the time, the known world. Um but the same thing happened with with these inspired scriptures too. Like they were being widely circulated, and that is the criteria. It the the criteria that we have are did a did a disciple write it, or did somebody a disciple adjacent, apostle adjacent write it? AKA Mark or Luke, right? Right. And that's the criteria.

SPEAKER_02 24:59

Go direct to the source.

SPEAKER_00 25:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:01

You know, and to to stir the water here a little bit, there's also the Catholic and Protestant designation there in the Apocrypha. Uh and that's one of the myths.

SPEAKER_00 25:11

Those part of part of one of the myths. Yeah, yeah. But anyway, press on. Yeah, no, no, no, no. That's that's a good point because um, you know, some of those things like in the Apocrypha, the book of Enoch, first and second Maccabees, and some of those, um, those were being widely circulated too at that time. But it's really important to know, and this is very interesting to me, that even though those were widely circulated, they were not accepted as scripture by the early church, by the earliest church. Very interesting to me. It is very interesting. That they knew they knew to differentiate those writings from the other. And I kind of look at those as like um an early commentary.

SPEAKER_03 25:54

That's a good way of viewing it, almost like a devotional. Yeah, in a different sense, like maybe not a true devotional in the sense that we have today, but like uh, you know, a companion.

SPEAKER_02 26:04

Supplemental to scripture.

SPEAKER_03 26:06

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:06

And uh study tool. The reason, you know, according to the um historians and scholars that the Gnostic gospel, Gnostic gospels come along, is because they are doing the the writers of these gospels are doing exactly what the skeptics are accusing us of doing. They're trying to shape uh they're trying to shape theology around their specific agenda. Make it fit. Make it fit. And they are tagging on the name of these famous his uh biblical figures in order to give it credibility. Right.

SPEAKER_02 26:45

And that's not gonna fly, clearly. I mean, uh I'll I'll be brutally honest. There's parts of scripture that I wish weren't there because rather than turn the other cheek, there's a few people I'd like to punch in the notes. Exactly. But I can't do that. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 27:00

I have to look show them love and grace. That's exactly right. And you know, the fact of the matter is, especially now in modern scholar modern scholarship, they've discovered that like the vast majority of these were written hundreds of years later. So the gospel of Thomas, pretty likely that he was not 400 years old when he wrote his gospel. Probably makes sense, you know. And some of them are also like ludicrous. Like if you if you're go if you're to go and read them, they're they're absolutely kind of just asinine. Yeah. There's a I think it's like the there's one called the Gospel of Peter, I think, which is kind of Mark, by the way. Little little uh letting the cat out of the bag of. Yeah. Um, but um there's a quote unquote gospel of Peter. I think it's gospel of Peter. I I might uh be wrong about this, but it doesn't matter. One of these Gnostic Gospels, there's they're recounting the resurrection. And um, for some reason, all of the disciples and all of the church leaders are there. All of the church leaders are there. Yeah, all of the Pharisees, all of them, everybody. They're all there. And they witness, they all are just I well, why they're there, I don't know. They just decided to gather up at the tomb of Jesus, and then lo and behold, he walks out of there. And right behind him, the cross walks out of there. The cross, the cross, just sprouted legs, huh? Just walks out of there, and not only that, the cross, the cross is walking out of the tomb behind Jesus, and wouldn't you know it? The cross begins speaking. Sure. And preaching to the to the crowd. So this is ludicrous.

SPEAKER_03 28:51

I was gonna say, I'm gonna say that we should not accept that as canon.

SPEAKER_01 28:55

It sounds like inspiration for Groot.

SPEAKER_00 28:58

Exactly. That's it. Yeah. Um, and then some other evidence against it is they they use a lot of these will will um, you know, the Bible is is really good about listing out names and the lineage of like, you know, 17 generations. Uh the these gospels like to do that too. Only issue is the names that they list out would not have been commonplace names for the time it was supposedly being written in. Yeah. You know, they're they're listening to plenty of evidence to prove it's bogus. Yeah. Like uh Bill, the son of, you know, whoever, the son of Topher. Uh these names wouldn't have existed in this in this time period, is basically what it comes down to. So these have been completely and totally debunked uh throughout the years. And we're talking about debunked by by scholars who uh don't have an agenda. These are non-believing scholars, have thoroughly debunked these and go, no, no, this is this doesn't work. Um so sorry, Dan Brown.

SPEAKER_02 30:12

It's kind of crazy that people base theology, their their theological view on a fictional novel. Exactly. I'm I'm I read the book and saw the movie. Yeah. Uh enjoyed both, and the primary reason I watched and read the books is to be able to apply apologetics to anybody that would take that view.

SPEAKER_00 30:35

I enjoyed it because it was entertaining. Yeah. Purely entertaining. Yeah, good movie. Uh all the best movies are pure fiction, and this was no different. No doubt. Uh I enjoyed the historical aspect of it. I love history and I love medieval history and things like that. So uh, but you gonna base your theology off of Dan Brown, who is now who is living, who's somebody who's yeah, and I I even read, I don't know if this is true, so I don't even know if I should say it, but gonna. Um I read somewhere that Dan Brown was quoted to s uh to to have said that he didn't believe any of this when he was writing the books, but after writing the books he began to believe it.

SPEAKER_02 31:20

Wow, he convinced himself of of what other opinions isn't that interesting on the opinions of other people instead of exploring it for himself. Yeah, instead of reading it for himself. Right. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 31:31

Thank goodness he didn't start a cult. Yeah, really. Might have taken might have took. Oh my gosh. That's a podcast all on its own. Let's talk about Scientology. Yikes. Uh but that kind of that kind of leads into the Apocrypha. Um and as a matter of fact, though, the some some scholars believe that the that the book of Enoch was quote was quoted in Jude. Yeah. Uh and Jude refers back to Enoch. And and of course, we have biblical reference to Enoch. We know that he was a man, it says that he was a man that walked with God, right? And wasn't he um one of uh Moses' great or Noah's great grandfather? Or yeah, it was it was it would have been Noah's like great great something grandfather. Because it was one of Adam's uh descendants. Descendants. So we all are correct. This is true. So Enoch was a real person, um and then the book of Enoch is kind of explaining it it it expands upon the events that take place in Genesis six where um the fallen come and uh and uh mate with uh human females and create the Nephilim. So the book of Enoch is is really popular because it goes further and explains, it goes to explain or attempt to explain who though who they were, what they did, um, and all that stuff. It calls them the watchers, yeah, which is kind of interesting.

SPEAKER_02 33:11

And I think to to to add to that, uh even though uh Enoch is mentioned uh in New Testament scripture, yeah, it it's not unlike me saying, well, just like George Washington Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 33:28

Yeah, yada yada yada, well, just like in the days of Enoch. And it's very possible that they were using the book of Enoch um as you know, just a good read.

SPEAKER_02 33:40

Yeah, everybody's read it, everybody's familiar with it. Here, just like you learned in the Tale of Two Cities.

SPEAKER_00 33:45

But even the Book of Enoch can't be um, you know, they can't figure out whether or not it was written. Some some scholars say 300 BC, right? Some scholars say 100 AD. Like there's just a a wide variance of of when it possibly, you know, we're talking about 400 years here. Right.

SPEAKER_02 34:04

And you you can put an awful lot of energy in into the book of Enoch that you could be applying to the canon.

SPEAKER_00 34:11

Yeah, exactly. Right.

SPEAKER_01 34:13

Well, let me uh ask a question for our listeners. Uh are these books that are non-canonical, like Enoch and stuff, is is that something that we should explore? Is that something that we should guard our hearts from?

SPEAKER_00 34:27

I think probably a mixture of both. I think that if you are um I I think it depends on how close your relationship is with the Father. Yeah, I would agree. Yep.

SPEAKER_03 34:40

And use your discernment, right? We talk about this all the time.

SPEAKER_02 34:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:44

Use your brain.

SPEAKER_02 34:45

And filter what you're studying, what you're learning and reading through what we know to be mechanical and the Holy Spirit to guide you in that study.

SPEAKER_00 34:55

And which actually that's a that's a great question, Nick, because I remember uh brother Bruce, you had a copy of the Quran in your office. Sure did. And I opened it.

SPEAKER_02 35:05

Among other religions.

SPEAKER_00 35:06

I opened it up one time and it says something to the effect on the ver on the the cover, it says something to the effect of this is Bruce Brady Jr. I don't condone anything written in this book, it's merely educational.

SPEAKER_02 35:18

Yeah. If I if I recall something along the lines of I consider this all heresy, and I've studied this that I might share the gospel with those who believe it.

SPEAKER_01 35:28

Yes. Yeah, and Bruce, me and you, I think we talked about this recently about a uh a friend of ours, um, and you kind of basically told me guard your heart, like kind of stay away from it.

SPEAKER_02 35:40

Sure. Yeah. It's but don't don't I I think it's important that we don't spend too much time digging too deeply into other things that we could be investing in our relationship with Christ.

SPEAKER_01 35:51

Yeah, because there is a possibility of poisoning your will.

SPEAKER_02 35:55

No doubt. No doubt.

SPEAKER_00 35:57

Matter of fact, I have that in my notes here uh when I was giving this talk, that it's perfectly it's perfectly okay to read through this stuff with the caveat that you understand that this is not inspired scripture. This is absolutely not inspired by God to be intended or used as scripture. Very, very important. Guard your heart. Yep, take every thought captive. That's exactly right. But it is incredibly entertaining. Yes, it is. If you are secure in your uh relationship with the Lord and uh you want a good laugh, go read some of the Gnostic Gospels.

SPEAKER_01 36:36

Yeah, because I mean there's dragons and stuff.

SPEAKER_00 36:38

Oh man, I mean, there's there's it's wild, man. Like if they were true, this would be a wild world. But uh they're not, so we don't have to worry about any of that. Sorry, Dan. You got good, you're a good writer. You're not a good theologian. Uh all right, for the sake of time, let's let's let's jump to to one more here. And this is this is one that um I'm interested to to get y'all's take on what y'all learned in school about this. Because I remember this is about Constantine, who we know is the first Christian uh emperor of Rome, legalized Christianity. Um but I I distinctly remembering, I I distinctly remember being taught in school uh that that yes, Constantine was the first uh Christian emperor and he legalized Christianity, but he only did so due to pressure from uh the the the leaders, his his other leaders there, because Christianity was fast becoming the prominent religion in Rome.

SPEAKER_01 37:56

This is what I recall as well.

SPEAKER_00 37:58

Yeah, me too. Yeah. Uh I I remember being taught that and remember thinking to myself, like, well, was he really a Christian? Was he doing it for political reasons? Political reasons. Yeah. Now, imagine my surprise. Imagine my surprise when I discover that that's not only untrue, but that Constantine had an encounter with the living God that is pretty astonishing. So we'll get into it a little bit here. Yeah, I'm excited to hear this. Yeah, this was all based around a dream, correct? That's right. Okay, so the the part of the myth is that Christianity was fast becoming like the prominent religion. Untrue. Only five to ten percent of the population were Christians at this time in Rome. The prevailing religion was traditional Roman paganism, polytheistic worship of gods like Jupiter, Venus, Mars, we get it, we get all that. Right. Right. So just before the battle of the Melvin Bridge, so this was a uh pretty historical battle that Rome uh was about to partake in, just before the battle of the Melvin Bridge, Constantine reported having a vision involving a common Christian symbol, and this was the Show. Have you guys ever seen the Shyro? I've seen it. It's like a it looks like a P, but it has a cross in the middle of it.

SPEAKER_04 39:24

Yes, I didn't know that's what it was called.

SPEAKER_00 39:27

It's called the Shyro. I don't know the history of it, but um regardless, he he had a vision where he saw this symbol in his vision. And he then went uh to his commanders and commanded them to emblazon that vision or that Shyro, that symbol, on all the shields of the soldiers. That's where I've seen it often. And then they decisively won that battle, right? And he immediately credited Yahweh with winning that battle. Wow. Um good for him. And so he converted immediately following that. That's crazy. I've never heard that.

SPEAKER_01 40:07

Yeah, this is just recently that I've learned this as well.

SPEAKER_00 40:11

Yeah, it's uh me too. And it's like, oh my gosh, like that was suppressed. That was suppressed for a for a reason. Like we're we're taught, you know, we're we're taught to appreciate separation of church and state and all these things, and look, these guys did it, you know, so on and so forth. No, not the case at all. Constantine had an encounter with God and uh converted in the year 312, legalized Christianity the neck very next year, 313. Cool. Uh it says that here that he was baptized in 337 shortly before his death, which was a common practice in those times. Um, but in short, in my notes here, Constantine's conversion was conversion and legal edict was in no way due to political pressure, but instead due to an encounter with the living God. That's awesome. That's amazing. Yeah. Um, and it's just so it's so crazy to me that we're taught something completely different. And I don't know if they still teach that, uh, but that's what I was taught. I remember that.

SPEAKER_01 41:17

Well, I mean, suppression is the name of the game these days.

SPEAKER_00 41:20

That's exactly right.

SPEAKER_03 41:21

I mean, yeah, I mean, if it tells you anything, I hardly remember learning about that at all. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:27

You know, and that's something that you could preach a sermon on. Right. You could, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 41:32

They were probably too busy uh trying to convince you that you started as a rodent and grew into a human. Probably saying immortal soup.

SPEAKER_00 41:40

Exactly right. Um, so anyway, that's a few of the widely known myths about the Bible that we just thoroughly debunked for y'all. You're welcome.

SPEAKER_01 41:52

Well, that was fun. We should do a uh continuation of that because part two. Yeah, I spent less time talking and more time listening. That's very interesting.

SPEAKER_00 42:00

It's pretty cool. Um, well, as a matter of fact, if you'd like to, you can come to Center Point Church Church on Wednesday nights. And because right now we're doing um something called evidence for faith, the gospels. And what we're doing is we are diving deep not only into kind of the message of each particular gospel, but the the history of the author, who they were, how they relate to Jesus. Oh, that's fantastic. How they relate to the other disciples, because you know, as we know, two of them weren't. Um, and why did they write what they wrote? What was the whole purpose behind it? Like, obviously, the purpose is going to be to get the good news out there, but very specific reasons that they had for writing what they wrote. You bet. Which is uh very cool thing. And all inspired by God, all inspired by God, all being used at the same time. And you know, just to kind of go back to our Gnostic gospel deal, the the gospel of Mark is fascinating because the gospel of Mark is one of the best cases we have as to the authenticity of the Bible. Mark is Mark is a nobody. Mark is this nobody who all of a sudden has this gospel that is the earliest gospel and is immediately accepted by the church. Why? Because God inspired it. There you go. So cool. No, no, uh, no shade on Mark, but that sounds like a great study.

SPEAKER_02 43:27

That sounds great.

SPEAKER_00 43:29

So, anyway, uh, Brother Bruce, Wyatt, thank you, boys. Thanks for having me. Absolutely. It's a pleasure. Appreciate y'all being here for a second time and third time and fourth time and fifth time. We'll have you back. Cool. Um, to all of you out there watching, thank you so much for your support. Uh thank you so much for um entertaining us on this little endeavor that we've got going here. We really appreciate it. Uh, if you want to support us financially, we also appreciate that. And uh promise that nobody's uh in here trying to get rich. We're trying to get this gospel message out. That's the whole purpose of this. And so your support helps us do that, and we really, really appreciate it. You can find a way to support us at patreon.com slash tofer brown. And uh, Nick, love you, bro. Love you too, brother. Love you guys. Take care of one another. God bless you. See you next time.