Prevent Your Divorce

Chris James is back for a part two! On episode 8 we talked with Chris about divorce and adultery. Now we he’s back to teach us how to save our marriages from the despair of divorce. Love you all. Stay in God’s Word and enjoy the latest episode! 

If you feels so led to support the show so we can continue to provide this content visit: www.patreon.com/topherbrown 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

So in one of our most viewed episodes, Divorce and Adultery, we talked about the causes of divorce and adultery. Today on this episode, we're going to talk about how to prevent those two things from happening. So let's discuss that. This is the Topher Brown show. We're going to keep the conversation going, as they say. So today we are continuing our divorce and adultery conversations, but we're going to take it in a new direction, that being, what is a biblical husband and father? What is a biblical wife and mother? How do we adhere closely to the scriptures in order to maintain our marriages, keep them healthy, and keep them centered on Christ? So we're going to talk about all that today. And as per usual, to help us do that is our good friend and co-host, Mr. Nick Smith. Hello, Nicholas. Howdy, howdy, America. How's it been going in there, brother? It's been two weeks since we recorded a podcast. Anything interesting happening in your world?

SPEAKER_02 1:35

Oh man, everything great. Hunting, fishing, loving every day. Living the Luke Bryan way.

SPEAKER_01 1:41

Is there the I so for some reason I had this like this sixth sense that you were going to say something about hunting and fishing? I don't know. Call that.

SPEAKER_02 1:51

It's just that time of year, man. It's it's spring. Right. Of course, you know, uh fall will roll around and I'll be saying the same thing about deer hunting. So yes.

SPEAKER_01 2:00

Man, I'm already, I'm already just looking forward to that day, man. Same. Uh ever since ever since last deer season, I've just I I the I went a long period without hunting, and I just got back into it this year, and uh man, I have caught the fever. I am ready to go.

SPEAKER_02 2:20

Especially uh after the great mishap of 2025.

SPEAKER_01 2:23

Yeah. You're talking about my great mishap? Exactly. Let's let's let the viewers know real quick. Uh so I'm sitting in a deer stand, and there's deer everywhere. There's there's dough all out in the plot. There's probably 10 out there and some yearlings. And the biggest six-point I've ever seen in my life, he looked like a cowl. His his ant, it was only a six-point, but his antlers were about that big around. And this dude walks out on me, and he's walking up to the feeder, and he turns broadside, and I couldn't have painted a better picture of him standing there broadside to me. And I raise my rifle, and I've got him dead to rights, my friend. Pull the trigger, click, nothing. And that dude turns and looks at me and goes, see ya, pion, gone. Only misfire I've ever had in my life happen on that six-point, that giant monster six-point buck. So that's the great incident of 2025. And I'm just glad you didn't blame it on me this time. What what do you mean by that? How would I have blamed that on you?

SPEAKER_02 3:29

Uh, because I showed up at church Wednesday night and every like six people came to me and said, I heard you ruined Tophir's deer hunting.

SPEAKER_01 3:36

Oh, okay. Okay. So an added piece of that story. Right before that deer, right before I I was I was pulled up on, I was raised on him, right? And then all of a sudden, about 300 yards away, is Nick in his deer stand who just pops a dough. And I'm I'm like, oh my gosh, this dude's fixed to take off. But he didn't. He kind of raised his head and looked up towards Nick. And then I was like, well, he's still interested. And so then that's when I pull the trigger and click, nothing. And that's when he looked at me and said, Yeah, you can't fool me twice. I'm out of here, baby.

SPEAKER_02 4:11

There's always next year. Uh that big six will be a big eight next year.

SPEAKER_01 4:15

So here's the hoping, my friend. I'm uh I always feel blessed if the Lord's Lord allows me to harvest some meat for the table. Thank you, Brother Bruce. That's right. One of our long one of our great friends and uh friend to the show, been on two episodes. Brother Bruce, it's his land that we hunt on, and we are just so very grateful for him and and his land and his hunting and fishing properties. It's also really good fishing, about to be really good fishing season. Oh, yeah. We were trying to do some upkeep maintenance around our fishing areas.

SPEAKER_02 4:47

So yeah, I heard you got the big carp now.

SPEAKER_01 4:50

Yeah, I put some grass carp in my pond, and they were probably a foot long, would you say, Nick? Maybe. That dude's at least two and a half now. Ooh.

SPEAKER_02 4:59

So we'll see. He's eating good. There was a lot of grass in there for him.

SPEAKER_01 5:02

That's true. Okay, so believe it or not, we're not talking about hunting and fishing today.

SPEAKER_02 5:06

Right. Right. To the real subject.

SPEAKER_01 5:09

To the real subject. We are we are actually going to talk, uh, we're going to continue on our conversation about uh divorce and adultery. However, we're going to we're going to um kind of shift away from that specifically and talk more about um, you know, what is a what is a biblical husband and father, what is a biblical wife and mother, what is a what do the scriptures say about all of that? How can we adhere to those in order so that so that divorce and adultery don't happen within our marriages? So, of course, you all know him, you all love him. He's gonna help us discuss this. It's our good friend and brother, Mr. Chris James over there. What's up, brother? I'm loving every minute of it and never had it so good. So thanks for coming back on the show for uh how many times is this? Like eight.

SPEAKER_03 5:57

I don't know. Something like that. I just like hanging out. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 6:00

Nine times out of ten, you can just catch this dude hanging out, ready to talk about the Lord.

SPEAKER_00 6:04

That's it.

SPEAKER_01 6:05

Which is why we like to have him on so much because uh he's a he's a fountain of knowledge when it comes to the scriptures, but that's that's the best thing that we can do, right? I mean, we um the the guidebook is already here, the instruction manual is already here.

SPEAKER_03 6:18

Yeah, you want to know how to preserve marriage, uh look at the author of it. Yes, he'll tell you everything you need.

SPEAKER_01 6:24

The creator of marriage itself. Yes. Um it's just so it's so beautiful and poetic to me that Jesus kind of um likens his relationship to us as a marriage, right? His his uh he's the bridegroom, we are the bride, the church. And um I think that's for a reason.

SPEAKER_03 6:43

It is it is, you know, you you look at uh you know, we just went through the Easter season, you look at the Passover. Yeah, that's what that's what it is. It it was uh in a sense Jesus getting on his knee to his bride and showing them the ring and saying, If you'll have me, I'll take care of you.

SPEAKER_04 6:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:59

And um that's what um the sharing of the cup was. It was um a Jewish engagement. And that's what what would happen. The the husband would share a cup with the wife after all the arrangements was made with the father. Sound familiar? Yes, cup share with the wife, and then he, the husband, would go away, the bridegroom would go away, and he would prepare a place for the wife, and then he will come back and receive her unto himself. Does that sound familiar? Right. And so Jesus did do that. He he shared the cup with us and said, and said, I will not partake of this uh again until the wedding feast. Right. So in a sense saying, I'm going to go prepare a place for you, I got some work to do, but I'm gonna come back and receive you unto myself.

SPEAKER_00 7:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:48

And so he is the perfect picture of what a husband, a man, um, and we have a perfect picture of what a father should be. And our father is.

SPEAKER_01 8:00

Well, it's it's uh interesting you say that perfect picture of a man because we were discussing prior to this show. Um, we also did an episode on you know, what is a real man, right? I think it was called Andrew Tate, Andrew Tate Might Beat Us Up. So sorry for the clickbaity title there.

SPEAKER_02 8:18

Worst feud episode, by the way.

SPEAKER_01 8:20

Was it the worst feud episode? Probably.

SPEAKER_02 8:23

Either that or Super Bowl.

SPEAKER_01 8:24

I thought Super Bowl might have taken the cake, but nobody cared about the Super Bowl after like a week. Uh, which is fine. We're just late to the game on just about everything. But um in that episode, we kind of talked about what society at large would have you believe is a real man. And when we had Stephanie Bullock on the podcast talk about beautifully broken ministries, we kind of talked about what society uh would have women believe is a is a real woman. Uh, how to be, you know, a real man or a real woman when the answers are right here in scripture for us.

SPEAKER_04 9:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 9:02

I think that Jesus paints a perfect picture as to what a real man is, what a real woman is. Uh the scriptures um and then Paul, of course, expands on that. We had a lot of feedback from our divorce and adultery episode. Yes, we did. I personally have people reach out to me and um ask further questions about it. Um, we've heard some really good praise reports about how it's helped strengthen other uh couples' marriages. Um and it's just so interesting to me that um it's all just right there. It is it's all just right here in the book, but we have to take the time to read it. We have to take the time to dig in.

SPEAKER_03 9:46

You have to take the time to read it, yes. And you also need to ask the question Who is my father? What is his characteristics? What is his personality, and what does he want? Um too many people read this scripture and try to find themselves. And I promise you, if you read this to try to find yourself, you're not gonna like what you read. Right, you're not the hero of the story. You're not the hero of the story, and you're also gonna see in the mirror that you're you're you are completely filthy. Um, but when you try to find out your father, his characteristics, what does he want? You you find all the answers there, and it you find it in the time that he has deemed appropriate for you to find it. Do you mind if I read some scripture? Yes, absolutely. All right, let's let's go back to the very beginning. Uh Genesis one.

SPEAKER_01 10:35

Um if you want to know Yeah, the first the nature of of men and women.

SPEAKER_03 10:41

Right, right. Um, so in Genesis one, we see that God created man and woman, and he blessed them, and this is the blessing that he that he spoke over them. Um and in that blessing, he there's a guideline here for husbands. Okay, be fruitful and multiply. Now, this is before the fall. Okay, and I'm just putting it out there. Childbearing is not the product of a fall. Okay. God blessed them and said to them, be fruitful and multiply, fill the earth and subdue it. All right, there it is. Yeah, and then he goes in to you know, have dominion over it. Okay, so there it is. Adam was supposed to subdue, right? Subdue what? What is there to subdue, right? We know at that time that there was a serpent crawling around ready to strike. We know that because in chapter three, he did. And who did he go after? His wife. Right. Adam failed in subduing. And because of that, we now are dealing with the aftermath of the fall. Yeah. It shows a couple of things. If us as husbands don't do what we're supposed to do, it will fall apart. Amen. It will fall apart. Like if and you know, I've been through a divorce. I've had to look myself in the mirror and say, You're the biggest reason for it because you allowed it to creep up on you. Right? You didn't see the warning signs, you're an ostrich to the head in the sand. You didn't subdue, you didn't take control and captive of the area that my father gave me, which is called my house. Right? Men think just because they provide and they put some ring cameras up that you're doing what you're supposed to do, and that's not true. And because he didn't subdue, uh, the enemy attacked his wife and she fell. Which scripture shows us throughout scripture that we we need to cherish and love our wives as a weaker vessel. You know why? They weren't created to be responsible for everything. And so then we have Jesus come along, and we see in Romans 5 that he is the second Adam, right? And what the first Adam couldn't do, Jesus did. What did he do? He subdued the enemy, he defeated death, hell, and sin right after proposing to his wife, the bride. He defeated death, hell, and sin, and then told the bride, Now you go. Now, does this sound familiar? Fill the earth. Does that sound familiar?

SPEAKER_00 13:13

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 13:14

Now they're supposed to go and they're supposed to go out and teach everything that they learn from him, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, the Holy Spirit, making disciples, right?

SPEAKER_01 13:25

What a amazing parallel. Yes. Um, I don't know that I've ever looked at it that way until you know we've been talking you've been talking about recently. Um, but the relationship with Jesus and his bride, the church, versus the relationship with Adam and his bride. Um, what an amazing parallel because we have failure on the first half, and then uh Jesus succeeded where Adam failed.

SPEAKER_03 13:55

And it and then how? Like how so it's Jesus showed us how. All right, and we can jump into this. Man, 10-foot diving board head first, praying that water's in there, okay? All right. Men, do you want to know how to do it? This is how you do it, like Jesus. Learn to live within serving and suffering. You will serve and you will suffer. Yeah. And that's that's how you do it. And this is.

SPEAKER_01 14:47

Oh, that's how that works.

SPEAKER_03 14:48

Yeah, I mean, you know, you know, everything in the Father's kingdom grows. We see that through scripture. Nothing dies, everything flourishes, but the main thing of growth in a believer's life is sanctification, which is you're becoming more like Christ. And remember, Jesus Christ Himself said, even though he was equal with God, right? He he became, and it tells us in scripture, he became less and he became a servant to all. And it became sin for us. Even he said to a rich young ruler or to the the followers, I don't to this rich young ruler, I don't even have a place to lay my head. Right. Like I don't. So all this expectation of going out and conquering the world and doing all these things to build up a bank account where one day you will die and somebody else will spend it all is a waste of time. The greatest treasure that we have in our household is number one, a relationship with our father, number two, our relationship with our wives. It's a treasure and we're missing it because we don't know how to serve people. Right. And I heard a pastor say this. I wish I could think of if I could think of his name as well. It's okay, man. We can never think of anybody in the show. Um he he said, our culture doesn't know how to serve, we just know how to use. Oh man, husbands use their wives for sex, husbands use their wife because they don't want to be alone. Husbands use their wife as a sounding board of their pride, right? Tell me how great I am. Um but and he and he said this and it was so profound. As Christians, we can't even love our wives as the Bible commanded us to love our enemies.

SPEAKER_01 16:31

That's so heavy, man.

SPEAKER_03 16:33

I had to sit back, I had to sit back and go, that is that is overwhelmingly true in our culture. That's like a re a repent moment. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I can't even love my wife. How am I supposed to love my enemy? And what am I doing? You know? And I and I sit here and I look at all the things that I put her through because of all the things that I go through that she's not meant to carry. And you know, you look at Jesus, he never poured down on his his bride. Right. He poured up to the Father. That's what he did. He didn't pour down on his wife, he poured up to the Father. He went to the secret place and prayed with his father, and he got the strength that he needed to serve his wife.

SPEAKER_04 17:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:19

But he wasn't dependent on his wife to give him what only the father can give him.

SPEAKER_01 17:22

Amen. And there's a hierarchy. Amen to that, brother. So um let's take it all the way back to Genesis, because a lot of what we're experiencing, or or I should say, all of what we experience when we're talking about conflict in marriage, sin within within our our own lives, it's all a result of the fall, right? It is. And so um if you could, I'm not trying to put you on the spot, but if you could pull up the scripture where God is kind of doling out, but because Adam and Eve sinned, God's kind of now describing, okay, this is what's this is what is a result of that now.

SPEAKER_03 18:06

I love that you said that. Um I turned right there to it.

SPEAKER_01 18:09

Nice. Because I think that's important because it it um it explains so much of what goes on in our marriages now.

SPEAKER_00 18:19

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 18:19

It it it perfectly describes how men behave and respond to certain things, and it perfectly describes how women behave and respond to certain things, all result of the fall.

SPEAKER_03 18:32

You are so right, and so true. Now, a couple of things we need to see here is in it's in Genesis 3 where the temptation to fall a man happens, the serpent causes confusion. He said, Has God indeed said? Did he really say that? And see, that's the whole problem that a lot of people have when it comes to this scripture. Uh is it really true? Is that really what he said? Can we trust it? Oh, the uh the interpreters, the the those who translated the translators, they put their own spin on it, you know. They did well look, God said he'd preserve his word, and Jesus Christ said not one jot nor tittle will pass away. So and the cross references, there's twenty sixty-three thousand different cross references from the old testament to the new test. It's too much.

SPEAKER_01 19:23

And even if you don't even if you don't believe it, you can't deny that what it's about to describe right here is reality. It's reality right now. Yes, yes, it we're it's happening right now.

SPEAKER_03 19:38

So understand that the enemy's uh tactic is to make you think and be confused that this ain't real and be confused about what it says. So you need to understand that before we go into it. Because some of you are going to hear this and you're not gonna like it. Well, get some straws and suck it up, right? Because it's just the way it is, right? So we know the end the enemy went to the woman and she fell. Okay. She did something that the Lord told her not to do, and it was God's grace and forbearance that He kicked them out of the intimate place with Him because if they would eat a trolled uh the tree of life, they would stay in a sinful state. Um never uh and and redemption wouldn't have been available. Yeah, they wouldn't be able to be close to him anymore. And that's not what he wants. He wants to be close. But I love it. It's so great, it's just like a father, and just I mean, because we know the Lord knows everything. And Jesus told us this that he already knows what you need before you ask it, right? He knows everything. He you know, he that Jesus talks about in Matthew 5 through 7 how he'll even make the the lilies grow to be so beautiful here today and throwing the fire at the next. Like he he is so detailed and intimate. So when he asks questions, it's hilarious because that's just how we do with our children, right? So here in chapter 3, uh when the Lord God called to Adam and said to him, Where are you? Because they were hiding. I love it as though he didn't know. Yeah, he already knew. He knew where they were, he knew when that had happened, he knew he knew everything, right? Um, and so it's just uh it's it's just his sovereignty and his grace. Listen, listen to how he puts this. So he said, Adam, I heard your voice in the garden and I was afraid because I was naked. I hid myself. And God said, Who told you you were naked?

SPEAKER_01 21:22

Wow. Because that would have been a foreign concept up to this point.

SPEAKER_03 21:26

Yeah, yeah. Like, because God knew all these things, but his children didn't know. It's kind of like when our kids get old enough to start asking questions like, Who told you that? I told you that. Who told you about that? Interesting. Yeah, I love it. It's so beautiful. Have you eaten from the tree which I commanded you that you should not eat from? I do that a lot when my kids don't want supper. Like, did you eat that cookie I told you not to eat? I already know that you did. I already know that you did. Giving you a chance to fess up.

unknown 21:50

There it is.

SPEAKER_03 21:51

There it is. We're seeing the first picture of repentance. God, why did he ask that? God wanted them to repent. Well, how can I say that? I'm glad you asked. Because he asked the same question to the woman, but he didn't ask that question to the serpent. Repentance is not for him. He said, Because you have done this. Now listen to this. Here's the flow of everything. He asked Adam a question that God already knows. He just wants you to tell the truth and be honest with him. Why? Because God loves to forgive you and he wants to be close with you. And he wants to fix your problem before it becomes a problem for your wife. Like this. The woman whom you gave to me, this is what Adam said when he said, Have you eaten from the tree, which I command you have to eat from? The first instinct of Adam is to blame his wife. That's the buck. Yeah. It's the woman's fault. It's the one that you he's even blame God and the woman. It's the woman you gave me. It's her fault. And you know, this is what God does. He doesn't ask Adam again. He turns to the woman. This is the problem in marriages, is that your wife is tired of God always having to come to her because you're not doing what you're supposed to be doing. And that's the problem. And you're going to see that flip here in just a second when our father issues the punishment, right? Everybody about to get a spanking. Everybody about to get one. And the woman whom you gave to me, she gave me a tree and I ate. And the Lord said to the woman, What is this that you have done? He wants repentance. The woman said, The serpent deceived me and I ate. So the Lord said to the serpent, He didn't ask the serpent no question. He just gave a command. All right. Because you have done this, you're cursed more than all cattle, more than every beast of the field. Your belly shall go, you shall eat dust all the days of your life. I'll put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed. That's a whole different thing. Women don't have seeds, Wheezy's saying. Virgin birth. I got you. Yep. I'm tracking now. He shall bruise your head and you shall excuse me. He shall bruise your head and you shall bruise his heel. It's all picture of Christ. All right. Now here comes, here comes the the punishments. And this will make sense in marriage, men. To the woman, he said, I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception and pain. Okay, wait a minute. Wait a minute. He didn't say sorrow in conception. He says sorrow and conception. I will greatly multiply your sorrow. Now you know why your wife is so stinking over-emotional.

SPEAKER_01 24:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:30

It's part of the fall.

SPEAKER_01 24:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:32

The sorrow is part of her fall in nature. She's more emotional than you are. It's crazy. And I'm gonna say something and women are gonna be like, that is not true. It is true. Women, do you know that your husband can actually think about nothing?

SPEAKER_01 24:47

I can att I can vouch for this.

SPEAKER_03 24:50

Yeah. We can actually sit there and think about nothing.

SPEAKER_01 24:53

About nothing.

SPEAKER_03 24:54

It it can't that can't even compute. Why is that? They think in multiplexicals, this leads to that. And that's the way their brain is, because they were designed to be the helpmate. Listen to this, ladies. Listen to this. What good needed to be here when everything was perfect? It was you. God looked around and said, okay. It's good, but it's not complete. I know what I do. I'll make a woman. Counterculture, isn't it? I'll make a woman. And where the man couldn't, the woman could with the man. They could together. Right? God created the woman to think in a way that all streams run together into one. The man is thinking linear, like this. Ladies, how many times did your man walk in from work and go, what's for supper? Because that's all they think about. You think about laundry and clothes and groceries and kids uh, you know, uh homework getting done and mopping the floor, and we're thinking lunch.

SPEAKER_04 26:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:05

That that's let me get to work, let me get to lunch, let me get home to my wife, what's for supper? Then you can tell me everything I need to know. Once I know what supper is, I'm good because I'm a linear, right? But women think if I don't do all these things um and I don't wash the dishes by six, we're gonna die by 10, right? They think all this things, and that's their gift. Your wife can come to you, and this is where we fail. She's so sorrowful, we won't we don't want to deal with her emotions. Yeah, and then we take her emotions as some kind of failure on us because we're prideful, which Christian man, husband, your job, and I heard Michael Guest, he's uh um Geist, Michael Geist, he is a uh uh pastor and a poet. He's he said one time that pride and despair are both self-absorption, and as a Christian, we are to navigate ourselves between that. Not every problem she has is a result of my failure. All right, that's all about me. That's not serving her. So when she comes to me and she pours all this stuff out, we got to do something that's so hard as men. Because we can think about nothing. We have to active listen. Yeah, we have to actively listen to her, repeat to her what she said. And guys, I promise you one thing, you're not gonna fix what she's got going on. She just wants you to listen because part of her fallen nature is sorrow, and she's got to be able to get all that out. Yeah, and if you're not someone she's safe with, coming to, that's a big word for women. Safe for sure. Because as soon as she starts saying stuff, you go right into her character. You go like, well, if you would be in your word, you wouldn't be feeling this way. Well, if you'd be praying, you wouldn't be feeling why are you listening to that? Don't you know that Topher Brown podcast is the best podcast you can listen to? Why are you listening to that junk, right? And now it's filled up your head. Well, if you wouldn't listen to that, you know, no, no, no, no, no. They're gonna feel so unsafe coming to you. Yeah, or if you try to uncover arterial motives, yeah, or or what you're going through, you try to place on her. You got to learn to be a servant in this moment because your wife has great sorrow built in through the fall in her that you don't carry every single day.

SPEAKER_01 28:25

This took me forever to figure out, or I should say it it took me forever to start listening to the Lord on. Um and we talked about it in in our you know, what is a real man episode, that when whenever we read scriptures like um Ephesians 5, when when Paul is laying out um the you know the responsibilities of a husband and a wife, whenever we read uh husbands or I'm sorry, wives submit to your husbands as as to the Lord, um oftentimes because we're egotistical and prideful, we think that that means be my slave, be my servant, be my subordinate. No, no, and that's not at all how it was designed.

SPEAKER_03 29:15

The Greek word for submit there is it doesn't mean for them to be in complete control over you, it means for them to recognize the authority the man carries, right? Right. If if a husband comes to a wife and tells them to do something they're uncomfortable with, tells them to do something that's immoral, unethical, they can say no.

SPEAKER_01 29:45

And should.

SPEAKER_03 29:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:47

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 29:47

You know, and but if if we're sitting here and I'll listen to my wife and she tells me everything I need to know about a subject, and she tells me A to Z, I go, I like C. Let's go with C. Yeah. She was heard, she was acknowledged, her uh her opinion was weighted, and notice this every single opinion was her opinion. Yeah. And I chose which one I wanted to go with. Yeah. Because she thinks in the levels that she's my advisor, she thinks in the levels I don't think.

SPEAKER_00 30:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:27

Read Proverbs 31, Wives. You'll see a uh a godly woman whose weight is far worth more than rubies. Remember, her husband was respected at the gate because of her. Yeah. Okay? Yeah. It's a big thing. They're always seen together, but her husband was respected because of her. And she gives me all this advisement. I'm like, we're gonna do C. Right? And then guess what she's gonna do? Every single day, she's gonna make sure that C gets done. And she's gonna start detailing C because that's her gift, not mine.

SPEAKER_01 30:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:54

I you know, I hate mowing grass. I can't stand it. So I pay somebody to mow my grass. I'll stand there and I'll watch them. I'll go back inside, flirt with my wife, come back out and watch them again, right? Because I'm I'm just not me. But my wife is so gifted and thinking and all the details, and she knows that I'm not. Right. So she'll give me all the details for me to hone in on. So she respects when I say C. Yeah. And she submits to that authority. It's like, okay, I would have gone with E, but we'll try your way, and then when your way fails, we'll go back to E. Right. So that's that's just their gift, but it's a beautiful gift as it works together. Yes. And this is so what's so beautiful about our father is that he allowed us into our mess, but he is given left and right boundaries in this mess to thrive as a kingdom citizen, a kingdom father, a kingdom husband, a kingdom wife, a kingdom mother, and we can thrive in that.

SPEAKER_00 31:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:57

I mean, it's a crazy, crazy concept, but husbands and wives can wake up joyful. Yeah, I didn't say happy. Joyful, right? Happiness is an emotion, joyful is a state of being. And I look, let's talk about increasing sorrow. This is a funny story. Exclusive for the Topher Brown show.

SPEAKER_01 32:19

I love it.

SPEAKER_03 32:20

I'm gonna put my business out there. Come on, I'm gonna put it out there, right? Shout out to the men's clinic, and I know you got a podcast, so Dr. Manning, shout out to you. Um, I I've already sent you five people. I want a discount when I come back. So I was in deep despair and depression and anxiety, and I'm I was thinking, what is going on? Like it was a whole season of this, like I'm feeling sorrow, like deep. And I knew what it is. I'm a chaplain, a pastor, I deal with this all the time. I'll be sitting in the dark, just self-analyzing and counseling myself, asking myself questions, right, and wondering what's going on. And I mean, in the mornings I was bottomed out. In the evenings, I was so aggressive and aggravated all the time. My son would bump into me in the hallway, and I just point up. He looked up into the roof. I said, That's my roof. When I come down the hallway, one side or the other, dad's coming through, right? I was just wow, aggravated. Like, you know, two years of land tax, and then you can walk down the hall with daddy. Like, you know, just aggravated. I'm like, what is wrong with me? My wife was calling me out. She was like, You've never been this aggravated.

SPEAKER_04 33:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:28

And I wake up at four o'clock every morning. It is a sweet two and a half hours for I have to wake up my children. Me and the Lord have all this time together. And I'm sitting there and I'm crying. And I'm like, I can't feel any happiness. Wow. None. I am in deep sorrow. I was like, look, something's going on. I told my wife, I said, I got cancer. Like, I that's where my thoughts went. I'm like, I don't have long in this body. I'm gonna make sure that, you know, you and your new husband after I die are set up, those kind of things. Man, I'm deep despair. Yeah. Right? I'm just like, you know, everything's really paid for. Y'all are gonna be good. I mean, I'm talking about dying. Wow. And I'm like, what? I've got to go get checked out. My buddies in the military said, go to the men's clinic. They specialize in men and get your blood work done. They'll figure out what's going on. I'm like, okay, I will. And so I go get the blood work read and I bring my wife with me to the men's clinic, all mahogany, wood, smelling like the old Abercrombie store. Yeah. You know, they got a big, big buffalo head and 14-footers.

SPEAKER_01 34:32

Wonderful.

SPEAKER_03 34:33

Leather chairs, like just man. Yeah. Right? You go in and you gotta trim your chest hair when you leave. That's man stuff. And and I got I'm walking in with my wife hanging on to my arm, petting me like a mother. It's gonna be okay. We go sit down, and Dr. Manning started reading out everything. He's like, ah, your prostate's good. Good job. Ah, ah, your kidney function is outstanding. Oh, your cholesterol. And I'm thinking, why am I feel like I'm gonna die? He's like, Your estrogen is through the roof. Wow. And I look, look, I was sitting, I was like, my and I looked over at my wife and she's just dying laughing. She was like, he was like, Yeah, your testosterone is like that of an 80-year-old, and your estrogen is through the dude. If my estrogen had been 10 points higher, I would have started. Like, that's how my estrogen was. I was like, I'm a pre-hormonal woman. No wonder I'm sitting here crying. And I and I read this, I'm regretally multiply. Like, she looks at me and says, Not even what I go through every single week. And I'm like, this sorrow they carry is deep. It's real to me. And it carries the family. And look, let me let's talk about this. Okay, let's listen. I had a woman, and I and I and I see now while all this is coming together. Oh, and by the way, they they got my testosterone under control. I started taking an estrogen blocker, and I'm talking about like that. Snapped out of it. Man, like crazy. My testosterone was 900, my estrogen is now 30. My testosterone was like two something, and my estrogen was 50 something. Wow. Like it crazy. And I was like, thank God. Thank God I'm a man. Because I couldn't carry that. Right. I couldn't care, I could not carry that and function. Yeah. They do that all the time. Right. It it and but yet I'm safe with my sorrow to her because she understands it in a depth that I can't imagine. Yeah. Right. But my children, when they cry, when they run to their mother, they they understand that mother, that comfort that mother gives is saturated and understanding and identifying with sorrow. Yes. They're safe with that. Not me. I'm like, what are you crying for? Stop crying. Right. My daughter bumped her head at bumped her toe at church, and all the women come running in with her and she's screaming and hollering. I'm like, stop crying. Your toenail's still there. You're fine. You know, just stop crying. But the women, they just they gravitate toward, you know, and I'm safe in it. Um, but you gotta understand the there's a good side of that. I had a lady tell me they said uh these ladies sat in my office a couple of uh a week ago, actually, um, and told me something so beautiful about a woman's role. A lady, uh uh Miss Renee, she said, a wonderful woman in our church, 20 years my elder, she's a wonderful woman. And she she said that I see my role as the Holy Spirit. I've never I've never seen that before. Like I never pictured. She was like, I'm the nurturer, I'm the caregiver, I'm the comforter. I'm the one that sets the atmosphere when my husband comes home, my children come home. Wow. I I just it floored me, and I could see that because I know my wife, when she walks into a room, she don't walk, she glides. Like it's just her presence. It's just everything's better, everything makes it so much better when she's there. But she's got great sorrow and she carries that, and she has to be safe in me in that as her husband. There's a lot here, man. I mean, we can go forever. So let's keep going with that. All right, and your conception in pain shall bring forth children. All right, so God increases your pain in childbirth. You can't increase something that never happened. Like you don't we don't see Eve go, what's childbirth? Uh what's pain? There's another question. She don't understand. She didn't ask those questions. She already knew what those what those were. Yeah. All right. All right, and here it is. Your desire shall be for your husband, but he shall rule over you. Uh-oh. And there it is. There's the biggest divorcer. The biggest one. The word desire there actually means control, not sexually. She wants to control you.

SPEAKER_01 38:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:50

Her desire is to control you, men. How many times has your wife picked out your clothes? How many times has she told you not to wear certain things? Um, let's go even deeper. How many times has she even told you what to eat when you go to restaurants? Um, how many times has she tried to make your decisions for you, told you how to think? She's operating in her fallen nature. She's not a horrible person.

SPEAKER_01 39:15

In other words, roles are reversed. They're reversed. Um, and that's kind of what I think that I was I was getting at was that the fallen nature, the enemy, as we see all throughout scripture, he distorts and he um, you know, for lack of a better word, bastardizes the truth of God. And so he'll take something and he'll flip it around backwards. And so I, you know, that's what when I when I look at marriages that are falling apart, and I and I have been in this position before, uh never been divorced, but you know, my we've had struggles within our marriage. And it's because, and Nick, you you hit on it in uh in one of our episodes, um, where you said, you know, for a long time uh the roles were reversed. I think you said you're gonna get in trouble about mentioning gender roles.

SPEAKER_02 40:05

Yeah. But yeah, probably. That sounds like me.

SPEAKER_01 40:08

But the roles were reversed. You weren't um fulfilling your biblical responsibilities as a husband. And I've been there too. And as soon as we stop fulfilling our biblical roles as husbands, that's when the twisting and the flipping starts to happen. Yes, in my in my experience. It's our fault. Yeah, but we we failed. We're impossible. We stopped praying for our family, we stopped um being the chief the chief servant of our family. Yes. Um, and so therefore, of course, then the control aspect of it on the on the wife side comes in because they feel like the everything's spinning out of control. They feel like the man can't.

SPEAKER_03 40:54

They lost trust in you. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 40:56

And there's there's distrust and there's resentment.

SPEAKER_03 40:58

Yes, and they start being bitter, um, which is the rot of unforgiveness.

SPEAKER_01 41:05

And um so it's it's you know, I feel like it's it's uh there's a responsibility on on two ends there. Because if the man is not fulfilling his responsibility as a biblical husband and father, then it's time to repent, turn to the Lord, and get things straight.

SPEAKER_04 41:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:23

But if the woman, the wife, if she has a relationship with the Lord, but she is not fulfilling her role as a biblical wife and mother, then she needs to repent too.

SPEAKER_04 41:35

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 41:35

There needs to be a dual repentance, and there it there it is, there it is, servanthood, right?

SPEAKER_03 41:41

Serving each other, okay? Yes, all right. As as the bride of Christ, I'm to do what Christ says, and I'm to follow the teachings, okay? Um, and as uh Christ over my household, I'm supposed to serve, all right? I'm the example. All right, so let's define servanthood. Okay. So I want everyone to think of a servant, all right. You got that in your mind as a man? Servant, all right? All right, I'm just gonna define it for you. Remove yourself from the equation. Don't even think about yourself, don't even consider yourself.

SPEAKER_00 42:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:19

Oh, how do how does that think about how you you're not getting anything out of it? Yeah you're not you're not in it to get anything out of it. You're going to serve and suffer for your wife so that she can be okay, and you're still probably not going to get anything out of it. Like you gotta take yourself out of the equation. It's not about you.

SPEAKER_00 42:43

Right.

SPEAKER_03 42:43

Right? Like, like, you know, I talk about Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane so many times. He he didn't go to alcohol, his answer to overwhelming stress, pain, and despair unto death, as he said, his response wasn't alcohol, it wasn't food, it wasn't being you know, overworking, it wasn't acquiring more things, it wasn't materialism, it wasn't his response to overwhelming despair and pain was prayer. He didn't go to the bride and pour down on the bride and say it's your real you're the reason why we're into this. You know, he went straight to the father, he got what he needed the third time he rose up and he was able to do husbands. You want a healthy wife, make sure that you're as close to your father as you possibly can be, and everything else will fall in place. Devote yourself to prayer because we're physically going into your part of the the the punishment, all right? And and you'll and you'll understand, you go, oh, that's why life sucks. Yes. Okay. So then the anime said, because you have heeded the voice of your wife. Men didn't correct it. That's right. You don't do what your wife says if it's against what God said.

unknown 44:07

Amen.

SPEAKER_03 44:07

Okay. I'm not going to do what she said. I'm going to do what God said. And when I do what God said, I'm going to listen to her and what God said of how to get all this done. This is what God wants us to do. Okay? Let me know the schedule. Because, you know, I'll be sitting there in my gym shorts forgetting that my son has a baseball game. Like literally, my wife can have our daughter at gymnastics, our 14-year-old at tennis, our uh uh our seven-year-old at T-ball, and also have an 18-year-old at high school at bas baseball at the same time. Right. Me, I can't even heat up a burrito right. So, you know, like we we start doing this where we're she's in she's wanting to be in control and we heed her voice over than what God said because we don't want to tick her off.

SPEAKER_01 44:56

Right.

SPEAKER_03 44:56

We don't want to tick her off. We don't want to make mama mad. You know, if mama's mad happy wife, happy life. If mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy. That kind of thing. That's bull junk. Mama can't if mama ain't happy, she might need to go repent. If she always has to be in control, yep. If she always has to be in control, she might need to go repent. Right? Yep, because her husband, you might need to actually start doing what you're supposed to do. Yes. And yeah, listen to the Lord. No, this is not what God has us to do. This is what we're going to do. I know you don't like it. I know you don't like it there. I know you don't like those other women. I know, I know, I know, but you're you're not in control of the situation. He is. I'm not even in control of the situation. My responsibility is to serve him and to serve them. That's it. Yep. And guess what's going to happen? Whenever it's all said and done, he's not going to go to the wife, he's going to come to me. He didn't say e I I can't remember this. Oh man, I can't remember this guy's name. He said it. Kingdom Man. Um, I can't remember. Tony Evans. Okay. He said, God didn't say Eve or R U. God said Adam or R U, right? As he's hiding because his wife made him do something he didn't want to do. Yeah. Right? That's what's going to happen. And so this is the what happened because of it. Um, because you have he did the voice of your wife, in other words, you listen to her over me, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you saying you shall not eat of. Yeah. Because he didn't tell his wife. He didn't tell. And at this point, um, Eve is named woman. She's not named yet, okay? She's woman. And this is what's going to happen. Cursed is the ground for your sake, until you shall eat of it all the days of your life. Man, there's no such thing as retirement. You're welcome. You're gonna you're gonna suffer every single day. So, my my suggestion to you is to carry around a straw in your pocket, and whenever it gets tough, bring it out, suck it up, keep moving forward. It's gonna suck until it doesn't. I think this is the life of a man.

SPEAKER_01 46:59

This is also something that took me a long time to figure out is that you don't have to be miserable in it. Um you know, there's a difference between happiness and joy, right? You said it a minute ago, you you laid it out. Happiness is an emotion, joy is a state of being. We have to, as husbands and fathers, lean into that because that is where we derive our peace that passes all understanding, right?

SPEAKER_04 47:24

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 47:24

Um it took me a long time to figure this out that Disney World makes us happy, right? Yeah, Disney World makes me happy. I love Disney World, love going, it's just nostalgic, makes me happy. Here's what gives me joy watching my son throw a fishing pole out into that pond. Come on. Uh watching my wife's face light up when I walk into a room and stand up to hug me. Watching my four-month-old who I've who I love more than anything on the face of the earth, and I've known her for four months. Absolutely like when I walk into a room, she she does her little excited thing. That thing. That's joy. Yeah, it is joy. Like you can have happiness, dude. That that has the added bonus of making me happy as well. Like my happiness is hinges upon their happiness. Correct. And that's where I think I fell for a long time as a husband and a father, is that I didn't my priorities weren't correct in that um I wasn't seeking the Lord first before trying to seek approval from my wife.

unknown 48:31

Correct.

SPEAKER_04 48:31

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 48:32

Um, but when I started seeking the Lord first, and when she started seeking him alongside me, everything changed.

SPEAKER_03 48:40

Everything changed. Yes, and there's something there. Man, listen, your wife does not dictate to you your emotional state. Right. And we and we we hinge our emotional state off of her barometer. She don't dictate that. And I've I've I've failed so much because I all I desire is for my wife to be happy. That's what we all desire. We just want them we don't want their life to be hard, but their life is going to be hard. And there are times where the Lord wants their life to be hard so for their sanctification process. And so we can't protect them from everything. And sometimes we're actually hurting them trying to protect them because we don't want them to toil like we're toiling. We don't we can carry the load, we can carry all that. You know, um, that's what we're made to do. As long as I can come home and lay in bed next to her, I can I can do it all. Like it's just like we don't ever go out on dates. I'm like, baby, when I close that door at nine o'clock with you, every night's a date. Right? Every night's a date. You know, I got the movie, I got my woman, you know. I don't even have to get out of my PJs, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_01 49:49

There you go. I love it. The my favorite part of the of the whole day is you know, around 10 o'clock when all the babies are finely asleep, when we can just lay down and watch watch something together, watch the show, or you just hang out and talk, or whatever it is. Like that's my favorite part of the day. I look forward to that. Now, what here's here's a uh a harsh reality for a lot of folks out there. Um the older I get, the sleepier I get around that time. And so it gets it's harder and harder to find that time, but gosh, man. One of our guests that was on the show one time, Mr. Nelson Timms, told me, and it has stuck with me and is something that I knew, but the way that he put it, just like, man, it's like fireworks went off of my brain. He said, Man, they don't want your money, they want you. Amen. They want your time. Yes. And I was like, Oh, yeah, dude. That's it. That's it. That's it right there. Yeah. All of these things will pass away. All this materialistic, trivial nonsense, even your emotions will pass away. Because when we enter into glory, you know, we'll experience one emotion all the time. Yes. Bliss.

SPEAKER_03 51:04

Yes, very well said. And even your emotions are sinful.

SPEAKER_01 51:08

Yes, they lie. You're the uh what's the scripture say your heart is deceitful. Oh, yes, it's going to deceive you all the time. Yes, yes. Um, and so I think it's really important for us to be aware that our emotions for men and women, husbands and wives, mothers and fathers, um your emotions cannot dictate the way that your marriage goes, and your emotions cannot dictate the way that you parent your children.

SPEAKER_04 51:36

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 51:36

And so here's here's what I'm gonna say. Um, because we're running out of time, we're running short on time here. I'm gonna say there's a part three coming.

SPEAKER_04 51:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:46

Because we need to talk about um the parental roles. Yes. We need to talk about children. Um, because that fits right in along. I think I think that there are a lot of folks out there who place their children over their spouses. They do. And we need to talk about that. We're not gonna talk about that in this episode, but we're gonna get there because I think that's very important too.

SPEAKER_03 52:09

And it's uh it goes all the way through. Wives, your children are not your husbands. Yeah. Um, and also wives, your husband's not Jesus to you. Yeah. You know, and husbands, your wife is not Jesus to you, and your children's not Jesus to you. I mean, it's it's it's so simple, yet we make it so complex because our default is sin. Yes, absolutely. And um, so it takes uh effort to be simplistic in Christ. Um, husbands, you want your household to go great. Wake up before everybody else and pray and be found in the watches of the night, walking in the hall, giving it to God while everybody else is asleep. Amen.

SPEAKER_02 52:47

And if uh if I may interject for just a second, um how dare you pipe in from the other room. Um so I I I want to tell men out there too that you know it sometimes you're loving yourself too much and not loving your wife enough. And a V in Ephesians 5 25, it tells us that we should love our wives like Christ loved the church. And if you can imagine how much Christ loves the church, we are not loving our wives as much as we should. And then those things will fall into place.

SPEAKER_01 53:22

We know exactly how much he loved the church, right? We have rules for yeah.

SPEAKER_03 53:26

Uh have you been stripped of your flesh for your wife yet, men? Have you have been in the point of despair even unto death for your wife yet? No, you haven't. You haven't. And we can't even forgive her. And this all the way goes down to and and we talked about this in the divorce and adultery. Um just because it's permissible to divorce your wife for adultery, should you? Is that what God wants you to do?

SPEAKER_01 53:54

Sounds like perhaps forgiveness should be the first thing.

SPEAKER_03 53:57

That's he was hanging on the cross and just to breathe was a torture beyond anything we can even imagine. And yet he had the resilience and resolve to say, Father, forgive them if they don't know what they're doing. And guys, let me ask you something. If you're you're a you're a father of a daughter, I am too. There's absolutely nothing my daughter will do to me that I won't forgive her of immediately. It's already there. She doesn't even have to ask for it. Why can't I extend that grace to my wife?

SPEAKER_01 54:32

That's a good word, man.

SPEAKER_03 54:34

She she's not God to me. If my if me and my father are really, really close, the first instinct when she comes to me in her sorrow and her control and her pain, my first instinct should be forgiveness. Immediate. But it it's not, and that's why we fight.

SPEAKER_01 54:54

Amen to that. All right, we've got 30 seconds. I want to give you if you could um for for everybody out there who is struggling in their marriage right now, something's off. Maybe there's people out there who are contemplating divorce, some encouragement for them. Um what can they do? What can they do to start writing the shit?

SPEAKER_03 55:17

All right. The first thing you can do is understand understand your role. Number one, stop making it about yourself and what you're not getting. Okay. Welcome to marriage. You're not gonna get what you want. All right, and that's a lot of times why divorces happen. And stop worrying about your happiness. If they're happy, you're happy. So focus on their happiness, right? Get yourself right with your father, get get close and clean. And this goes for husbands and wives. And wives. Get close and clean. Get close to him, start looking in your own life where where God needs to uh clean you up, start repenting and start being the husband for your wife that you're commanded to be, and wives, start being uh the wife for your husband that you're commanded to be, even if you don't want to. And live in forgiveness. You've got to live in it. Forgive them. All right, let's define forgiveness as we close out. What is forgiveness? I'm glad you asked. Forgiveness. Let's go back up. Hey man, what is forgiveness? There you go. I like it. In the words of the great philosopher, Mr. Rogers, Fred. Oh, I know it's gonna be good. He said in an episode, and I forgot it was, talking about forgiveness to children. He said, forgiveness is releasing the anger that you feel towards someone. And that's huge. So, husband, release the anger that you have toward your wife. Wife, release the anger that you have toward your husband. They're they're gonna fall, they're in their fallen nature. And part of that fallen nature for God to sanctify them, and sanctifying them, the part uh of that sanctification, He put you there to help him along in it.

SPEAKER_01 56:59

Amen.

SPEAKER_03 57:00

And same thing with you, husband, to help her along in it.

SPEAKER_01 57:04

Grace is not just uh how God feels towards us, it's what we're supposed to demonstrate toward other people. Yes, especially our spouses. First. It's a great word, man. Chris, thanks so much for being on the show again today, brother. I love it. We'll come back for a part three. We'll talk about parental roles because I think that's very that's very important. Um for you guys out there who are potentially struggling in your marriages, um, in your relationships. Man, I hope that this helps a little bit. Um, but I can promise you that what's going to help the most is seeking counsel from the Father. And you can do that by reading his word. It's it's right there. The roadmap is right there in front of us. You got access to it on these things, you got access to it in print. However, you can get your hands on the word of God. Um, I promise you there are answers in there that you haven't considered. Um, and we just want to thank everybody for your support. Uh, it really honestly means the world to us to have so many people encouraging us along this journey. Um, it's been it's been really, really fun up to this point, and I'm sure that uh, you know, there's gonna be days where it's not, but we're that's why we're so we're so appreciative of your support, man, because it just it means the world to us. Um, Nick Smith. Yes, sir. Love you, bro. Love you too, brother. Thank you for all you do. Thank you for all your support, and we'll see you next time. Thank you. God bless you. Take care of one another. See ya.