The Topher Brown Show
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The Topher Brown Show
For Jeff
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Life is short. It's not just a cliche saying, it's the absolute truth. And a lot of us in our immediate circle have had to come face to face with that reality in the last few days. But the question remains: what are we going to do with the time that we have left on this earth? Let's discuss that. This is the Topher Brown show. Hey everybody, welcome back to the Topher Brown show. Appreciate you uh watching wherever you're watching from, listening, wherever you're listening from, and tuning in. Today we got uh some some heavy subject matter to talk about, some things have happened in the recent past within our immediate um circle of friends and family, and we're gonna discuss that a little bit. Um today, we're honestly we don't have much of an agenda. Um we just felt like we needed to um, you know, stay true to you guys and get an episode out. But um we had Cameron Tate on the on the show recently, and he said something. He said, you know, you guys are the same on camera as you are off. And so we want to stay true to that today. We just want to talk and um be real with you, be transparent with you. Um before we get into everything, I want to say hello to my friend, my brother, and there, my producer, and my co-host, Mr. Nick Smith. Hey, bud, how are you doing?
SPEAKER_01Pretty good. Howdy, howdy, America.
SPEAKER_00So uh it's a bit of a it's a bit of a um, I don't know, what's the what's the word I'm looking for? A somber. Yeah. Somber um occasion today. And just to make everybody aware, um we lost one of our dear friends uh over the weekend. As of this, uh these episodes come out about a week late, later than we record them. So as as of today, this is actually we're recording this on Monday, May the 4th. Hey, it's Star Wars Day. May the 4th be with you. That's uh didn't even didn't even think about that. But it's actually gonna be coming out on probably the 11th. Um but over this past weekend on Friday, we lost a dear friend. Uh, we lost our buddy uh Jeffrey Grimes, who was a um a member of our church and also an elder at our church, and he was um unfortunately uh killed in a car accident uh not too far from where we're recording this uh this podcast, as a matter of fact. Yeah uh just down the road a little bit, very dangerous intersection right there. Um Jeff was a uh was a dear friend of ours. Um we worked closely together. Nick and I both worked closely together with Jeff Um on the Elder Board at our church, and just um in in general at uh for church stuff. Jeff was a a servant, uh, had a a huge servant's heart. And uh he just anything you ever needed Jeff to do, he was there to do it.
SPEAKER_01And really uh did a lot of stuff that we had no idea he did. Exactly. Just always behind the scenes working, doing something awesome.
SPEAKER_00That's right. Um so we're kind of dedicating this episode to him. We're gonna talk about some other stuff later on, probably get into some news and because we're just talking today, not not much of an agenda, but wanted to dedicate a significant portion of this show to him because um man, he did make uh a big impact uh on our lives just in his general just being Jeff. Um he didn't, you know, he didn't have to do a bunch of monumental stuff, even though he did. Uh just just his personality alone. He's just a gray guy. And um one of the most dependable human beings I've ever met in my life. Um as I said, he'd bend over backwards for you. So every Wednesday night, uh I would I lead the services at our church on Wednesday night, and I would walk in, and he was usually there, you know, like a good hour early. And the first thing that he would do every single Wednesday night is he'd walk up to me and he'd say, Hey man, how are you doing? Uh, what do you need? What do you need from me? What do you need me to do? And because that's just who Jeff was. Uh I leaned on him a lot when I couldn't when I couldn't lead worship, he would fill in for me. He was a musician and a singer. So he would fill in. He's been a pastor in his uh in his past. And so every now and then, whenever Chris needed a pulpit supply, Jeff would step in and preach. He was just a guy that could do and would do anything we asked him to do. And uh man, we're feeling his loss today, big time. Absolutely. Um so our hearts are going out to his uh his family, Holly, and his kids. Um he's got they've got four kids. Um I think one or uh one or I'm gonna mess this up probably. I think that three of them are stepchildren or adopted, and one is biological. Um but Jeff just took on even the even the those kids that weren't his biological children, he adopted and took on as his as his kids, and so those are his kids, and uh they are missing their dad right now.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. I'm sure that that family would appreciate any prayers that you send up for them right now. Um not to mention for um the the young lady that hit him, right? Um we're quick to forgive over here, and um you know it it was an accident.
SPEAKER_00That's right.
SPEAKER_01And uh she's gonna be going through a lot of hard times and trials herself coming up. Um so let's pray for her as well.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. Uh Jeff was in the military um for I want to say, I'm I'm looking up some info right here on my phone, so excuse me for that. Uh I want to say he was in the military for over 20 years. I want to say maybe 21 years. Well, Jeff was uh what 40? Jeff was 40, yep. So, you know, maybe maybe he enlisted when he was 18, 19, but um his current rank uh was sergeant first class. I know that he was um he's also an NCO, which is a non-commissioned officer, and he's also a religious affairs specialist, uh, which in my understanding is uh basically a chaplain's assistant. So Chris James, who is a frequent uh guest on this show and also our pastor, is a chaplain in the U.S. Army. And Jeff and he and him, uh he and Jeff, he's a chaplain in the U.S. Army, and he and Jeff worked uh very closely together, uh, a lot of times hand in hand directly together.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And so Chris is is um has very much been impacted by this loss. Um, and we'll we'll get into a little bit of Chris's role because Chris was a hero that day. Um but uh you mentioned the lady that that uh the other party that was involved in the accident. She also is in the army, and it's just it's just a crazy it's it's not a coincidence because we don't believe in coincidences. But it's just crazy that that uh both of them uh serve in the military. Yeah um she's I believe 30 from what I read and uh she's okay. Um unfortunately the intersection where it happened um as we're recording this this episode today, this morning, another major accident at this intersection.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, they're they're probably still clearing debris as we speak. It was just not long ago.
SPEAKER_00It just doesn't uh the it's just a very it's a terribly dangerous intersection, and I I hope that that all of these wrecks and accidents that are that have been happening will will make somebody stand up and take notice uh to do something there.
SPEAKER_01You know, do do you recall there being a lot before just recently?
SPEAKER_00No. I don't either. No, it's just it seems like just now recently that that has there's been a definite uptick in accidents at that intersection. So maybe somebody from the state, uh, we can get somebody to to do something, make something happen over there.
SPEAKER_01M D O T, County Suvisors, somebody. Whoever we can get on board. Let's let's get some more lights put up out there, some flashing lights, something that people can see to know, hey, yeah, there's a stop sign coming up.
SPEAKER_00Because how many more families need to be affected before something happens?
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um we were just talking about that today. So I want to walk you kind of through uh the timeline, and this is not to like rehash events and anything, but it was just kind of a harrowing day, and I think we all suffering a little PTSD, and I'm not using that term lightly, but um a little bit from that.
SPEAKER_01Well, you know, not to mention, I mean, I I know a lot of us, a lot of the people that listen to this podcast know Holly as well. And yeah, the last thing you want to do is make her rehash it over and over again as well. So yeah, let's let's kind of give some details so that we can get the story out and we don't have to ask that source.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, absolutely. Um, so I got a call, actually got a call from Nick on Friday morning because uh Chris, our pastor, was trying to get a hold of me. He couldn't get a hold of me. So he called Nick and asked if he could try and get a hold of me. Um so Nick finally got me um and and told me, just man, just floored me. I remember the first thing you said was I need you to sit down. And I it's not light news at all. Yeah, and I'm glad you told me that because I was holding my six-month old when whenever you dropped that, and uh I immediately felt just overwhelmed with emotion, um, which is saying something for me because I'm not an overtly emotional guy. Yeah. If my wife's if my wife were sitting on this podcast, she'd be like, you don't say.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, uh Topher's not quick to cry either.
SPEAKER_00No.
SPEAKER_01Uh you you and Wyatt both, I noticed that about both of y'all, is that you know it yeah, you either got to give you physical pain or it's gotta be the worst news in the world to shed a tear. This is true. Or the Lord moving. I I've seen you cry quite a few times when the Lord's moving.
SPEAKER_00No doubt. Uh with the exception of this past Sunday, because uh this past Sunday it hit pretty hard. But um, yeah, I mean, you know, I've never been I've never been a super emotional guy. Now, I will say this, I experience anger on a regular basis. That's an emotion. But um, you know, sadness, uh, I'm not like you said, I'm not I'm not quick to tears. And I tell you, man, like so, all right, let me let me back up. So um Nick tells me, I immediately get on the phone with Chris, and he says, I'm headed to the to the accident. And I said, Well, I am too. So I jump in the truck, it's raining, um, and it's a little bit cold. It's pretty chilly outside for spring day. Um and on the ride there, man, like I I don't know that I and maybe you've experienced this, Nick. Uh, you know, because you know we've we've had people I've had people that are close to me pass away. Family members, um, you know, friends. I've had people pass away in my life. None of us are immune to that. But this is the first time that I've ever experienced like anger in somebody passing away. Um on the ride to the to the and this is it was really only then in that you know 15-minute drive, 10-minute drive, that I that I was mad, man. I was mad.
SPEAKER_01Dude, I I I know exactly what you mean. Um when when my mother passed away, when I got the call for that, because it was sudden, um, it wasn't anything tragic like a car wreck, but um, it was very sudden and unexpected. Um, I went through the whole gambit of emotions. Um, and they were all the the most heightened sense of them uh that you could think of. Um my anger was beating the steering wheel. I'm surprised I didn't punch out my my windshield or something.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01But yeah, those those emotions come and they're they are strong.
SPEAKER_00That's exactly what I did. I beat my steering wheel.
SPEAKER_01And when you're open like that, too, man, it's just a great place for the enemy to kind of slip his hand in and slip his foot in the door.
SPEAKER_00Because I don't even know what I was mad at. You know, I don't know if I was angry at God. I don't know if I was angry at uh the the other person involved. I don't know. I was just angry.
SPEAKER_01Well, that's the thing. You just don't know how to react a lot of times because that's such a a few and far between moment that you're gonna go through in your life. You just don't know how to react. Right. So your body starts just cycling emotions till it finds one that fits.
SPEAKER_00I think like disbelief is also one of those things that that happens because I was just taught we were just with Jeff's Sunday. Yeah. Uh we had an elders meeting, and we we we we talked about um since the accident how you know Jeff was the he was the voice of reason in our elders' meetings. He was kind of the one that always brought us back whenever we have disagreements. Jeff is the guy that brings us back to the subject at hand and and really always presented a rational argument as to what his opinion was. And boy, we're gonna miss that. Um I hope nobody's expecting me to step in and be that pole.
SPEAKER_01Somebody's gotta be there to uh to tap Chris on the leg when he's getting a little too uh angry at us.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean that's what Jeff was doing, man. He was just he was the he was the spirit in the room that just calmed everything down.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Always. And it didn't matter what we were what we were talking about, what we were discussing, that was just Jeff. He just brought a sense of calm and rationality. Uh and I always say um when Jeff prays, it's like a poem. Um we played uh his prayer, his last prayer, we'll talk about that in a minute, but we prayed one of his last prayers. Uh we played it, a video of it on sun this past Sunday, and when he prayed, and I've always thought this, when he prays, he's like it's like he's reciting poetry. Um he's very thought out and meticulous with what he prays. And he there's frequent pauses to complete thoughts and stuff like that. And it's just like whenever he would pray, it was just this calming effect that would happen in the room.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and there was uh there was an air of uh wisdom beyond his years when he would pray as well. It it reminded me a lot of uh, you know, some of the the better deacons in uh your Southern Baptist Church when you were a kid, you know? Yeah, just the way that they would kind of uh just wax poetically and uh think of all the small things that you didn't think of and make you go, oh yeah. You know, yeah, that that brings things into perspective a little bit.
SPEAKER_00That's a good point because I always had my favorite deacons and my least favorite deacons that would pray. Yeah. He'd be like, oh, old Jimmy Joe's, he's gonna pray for 45 minutes. Um But Jeff was definitely my favorite in that regard. He just uh whenever he prayed, it was it was to the point, and it was a sweet, heartfelt prayer every time. And um, as a matter of fact, we we might plug that into this episode and just and just give you just a little bit about who Jeff was. Um but um so anyway, uh going back to that day, um Chris got to the scene of the accident before any of us did. Uh let me let me back up. Um the way that Chris found out, again, we don't believe in coincidences. We believe that the Lord was orchestrating everything, all of the the timeline that day. Jeff's coworker, close co-worker, happened to just roll up on the scene of the accident. Not too long after it had taken place. Uh it was just him and the first responders. He recognized Jeff's car immediately, and he called Holly immediately because when he walked up on the scene and he asked the first responders, is is the guy in that car okay? And they said no. So he called Holly, got her to get over to the scene without divulging anything to her. Um you know, obviously not his job. But then he then the second person he called was Chris. So Chris immediately starts calling me, and then immediately starts calling you, so on and so forth. All right, so Chris is the second, uh, I guess we we'll call it civilian at the scene. Uh he he rolls up on the the crash site and he tells the first responders, hey, I'm his pastor and I'm also a chaplain, and they let him through. Yeah. And Chris was able to go and and place his hands up on Jeff while he was still in the car and pray over him one last time. Now, Jeff was not present. Um Jeff was killed instantly, um, from what we understand. The impact was so so um she was at a high rate of speed, so the impact was great, and his death was instantaneous. And so he wasn't there, his his soul had already gone on to glory, but um Chris was able to place his hands on Jeff and pray and just ask God that Jeff would be allowed to hear it. Um and so that was that was some solace for actually for me, yeah, knowing that Chris was able to do that. Um I know that it was for Chris, but uh some solace for him to be able to to to do that for his friend and his close confidant.
SPEAKER_01Um But you know, even at um even at that speed and and him being able to pass instantly, um, you know, Chris told us there wasn't a broken bone in his body. That's right. Um it was all head trauma. That's right. That's that's pretty wild in itself.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So uh it was immediate and he didn't suffer. Uh we can take some solace in that as well. Um but um then that sort of kicked off the whole process of what we're going through now, you know, with all all of the grief and all the planning and arrangements and all that kind of stuff. And you know, when this episode comes out, we'll have already gone, we'll we'll have already had the funeral, we'll already have had all of the arrangements, but the the grief continues. Yeah. You know, that's what's that's what's difficult about stuff like this is that you know, those kids um are gonna wake up and they're gonna want to talk to their dad. Yeah. Um, you know, a couple of them, uh one one of them at least is out of the house, she's married, and um you know, there's gonna be times when she picks up her phone uh getting ready to call her dad and she's gonna have to relive it all over again. Right.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and look, even in in a very small insigni insignificant way, I've already done that. Uh Jeff worked for ATT and um I was installing a new internet system at my house the other day. Well, this was on uh Saturday day after, and I needed to know how to disconnect my ATT. And the first thing I did was pick up my phone to call Jeff. And it's just like geez, man. And there it was all over again, just you know, you you you get distracted by some stuff and some things just you know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and you're right. I mean, uh you you have to relive it all over again. And the the worst part, because I did that with both of my parents and a couple of friends, just like, oh well, I'm gonna call them real quick. Um not only do you have to relive that for a moment, but then you have the guilt of I'm I'm over them. I'm I'm over them enough to not remember the tragedy that that was placed before me. Yeah, and and you have to kind of relive with that and kind of dig deep into yourself and say, okay, I'm gonna heal over this. I'm going to heal.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and it's and and I think that's a false sense of guilt because it's not it's just muscle memory. Yeah, just muscle memory.
SPEAKER_01You can't help that.
SPEAKER_00You know, I I'm you know, I call my dad for everything. And I know one day when he goes on to be with the Lord, I was I'm gonna do the same exact thing. Yeah. Just like I I did with Jeff. Now that for me is very insignificant compared to what his children and his wife are gonna be going through. Oh, for sure. Um, you know, I'm gonna miss my friend. They're gonna be missing their dad and their husband and the person they've been closest with for the last, you know, forever, for some of them. And it's just very difficult, man. It's just um but so to kind of go into a philosophical discussion about this, because I think if if if anything, um if Jeff wanted anything to come out of his death, it would A be that people would come to Christ. Absolutely. But I think he would also have something to say about getting our priorities in order. Yeah. Jeff was somebody who had his priorities in order.
SPEAKER_01Oh, for sure. Uh from what I hear, because I mean it I I didn't get to see any of this firsthand, but that was kind of the first thing that everybody said about Jeff after he passed was how organized with dates and things that he was. He just always had everything in a perfect straight line.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely right. And his and not only that, because he had his military stuff, he had his work stuff, he had his church stuff. Yeah. And he was constantly working on all three of those things. But not only that, he had his priorities in order when it comes to his family.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00He had his priorities most importantly in order when it comes to his savior. Um Jeff was defined by his relationship with Jesus, which is like anybody who knew Jeff knows that. Oh, this guy loves Jesus.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. And you know, there's there's always those people that um that you think about after they've after they've gone on, you go, man, I just wonder. Wonder where they were in their life. I wonder where they're at right now. Uh no, no doubt about Jeff.
SPEAKER_04No doubt.
SPEAKER_01Zero doubt about Jeff. You could tell that he was in love with the Lord and only wanted to complete God's will.
SPEAKER_00That the scripture that comes to mind is is uh to be absent of the body is to be present with the Lord.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00That's the that's immediately we can't what the scripture that God gave me whenever Jeff passed. Was like, oh man, he's not even he ain't even concerned about things going on on this earth. He's in the presence of his savior. Yeah. Um, and that's something we can hold on to. But Jeff had his priorities in order, man. And it and it um, you know, not to get just super deep, but maybe to get a little deep. Um I know you've experienced this, and I have too over the last I don't know, maybe a couple years, where it it feels like the Lord is realigning uh us, you know, and and for me personally, and uh you can speak to your own personal experience in there, but um, you know, to me personally, he revealed he's been revealing in me, and it started a couple years ago, I'd say, been revealing in me that my priorities were all out of whack. Oh, for sure. Uh I I took I I take great um pride and responsibility in being a husband and a father. Um But what the Lord kind of revealed in me over the last starting a couple of years ago was that, well, that's great, but you're prioritizing them over me. Uh you're prioritizing work and and uh a way to provide over having a continuous close personal relationship with me. Yeah. It's not that I didn't have a relationship with them, it was just secondary to um, you know, keeping my marriage afloat, keeping my kids happy and fed. Um, it was secondary to making sure the bills were paid. It was secondary to making sure I had enough guitars hanging on the wall. It was secondary to, you know, you name the thing, uh, stressing out over finances, just worrying to death over what we're gonna do two years from now, what are we gonna do three, four, five years from now? Yeah. Instead of being present with uh with my father right here, right now. Uh and the last couple years, man, the Lord has been just just handing me those realizations on a silver platter.
SPEAKER_01Well, you know, if if only we had the the hindsight that we have now, and that, you know, uh a lot of my a lot of my issues stemmed with, you know, how am I gonna make my wife happy? How do I keep her happy? And the the fact of the matter is, is that what she wanted was a godly husband.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Like, oh why why was I even worried about that? Why did I not make that a priority to begin with?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Me too. I mean, I think it's I think it's honestly I don't know what it is, to be honest with you. Like, I remember um feeling weird the first time that I prayed with my wife. Yeah. Like, why did why would I feel weird about that? Yeah, I prayed with hundreds of people over the course of my ministry and my um life as a believer. Why would I feel weird about praying with my wife?
SPEAKER_01Well, you know, to me, I feel like because I I had that same sentiment. Like um, it she has the most free license in the world to hurt my feelings. You know what I'm saying? You're a normal stranger. I mean, I've prayed with people outside of gas stations, all kinds of places. Yeah, and it's just been the boldest prayers of my life.
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_01Uh you put me in a room alone with my wife that uh that loves to pick on all of my smallest but biggest fears. Uh yeah, it gets it gets a little tight.
SPEAKER_00That's what it is. I mean, it's uh it's an unworthiness, I think is what it is what we feel. Uh, I think that's why it was weird. For me, it was like this person knows all of my deep dark secrets. Oh, yeah, they they know my lows. Yeah, exactly. They yeah, exactly right. They they have seen me at my absolute worst, and here I am pretending, quote unquote, to be some spiritual, you know, whatever expert and praying for them. But at the same time, like, no, you're being obedient is what you're doing. And that's the that's the best way to love your spouse that you could possibly display is to pray for them. Um to show them that that you mat that they matter enough to beseech the Father on their behalf, uh, which is huge. Um But all that to say, like over the last couple of ye couple of years, the Lord's been doing that and in my life, and I know he's been doing that in your life too. Absolutely. Uh I'll never forget, man, there was a an experience that I had, and uh, you know, the Lord doesn't when the Lord gives me stuff, he doesn't uh just in a mighty booming powerful voice just issue a decree down from heaven and I hear it. You know, that's not how the how the Lord moves in my life, at least. He might do that for some people. But I was at an event and uh it was a place where there's no distractions. I didn't have a phone, I didn't have anything, and I was just it was just me and the Lord, and I was literally at the foot of the cross, um, and I was just talking to him. And I I heard, I don't know if you call it heard, felt, whatever, in my spirit, the words choose me, choose them. And what does that mean? It means that I was my I was my choices in life were were deprioritized. I was choosing my family over everything else, or anything else over God.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um and once I heard those words, I knew immediately in my spirit, the only way to properly choose my family is to choose him first.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00It's the only way it's gonna ever work.
SPEAKER_01I I know this event you speak of, and uh that it's also where my priorities become uh a lot more in line with what God wanted for my life and the uh for his will for my life. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I I had a sim similar moment where um I you know I I wanted to call it the audible voice of God, but I you just can't um because it wasn't really audible, but it's the closest thing that you can imagine to an audible voice without it being actual actually audible. Yeah. Um and it was it was something very similar, but uh mine was a little bit more about like there's there's still time for you. Like I still love you, and there's still time for you. Go out and do what I told you to do.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, and one of those things uh that I that I knew was placed on my heart um was reprioritizing my life and and putting my family in the correct place because uh it's it's no secret with a lot of people that are close to me. Um my family is the most important thing to me in my life, um other than my relationship with God. But for so long, I put them first over God. Um they were more important, but what's crazy is and I've especially seen this with my son. Um, I thought I couldn't love him any more than I did. But then when I place God, when I place Christ in the center of my life and made him secondary to that, I I feel like I love him more. Oh, a hundred percent. Uh Christ has taught me new ways to love and to care, and that is translated right over to my family, and I think that they're both happier for that.
SPEAKER_00I I think you hit it on the head. Like the only the correct way to love our family is to love them through your love for Jesus. That's right. Um, and it it opens your eyes to how much Jesus loves them. Yeah, you know what I mean? Um, man, that he could save a wretch like me. My wife is a heck of a lot better than I am. You must really love her. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. Um, that's that's kind of how I feel. And um it but there is a spiritual realignment going on. I mean, I think it's going on across the world.
SPEAKER_01Oh, I'm seeing it in a lot of people around me that I never expected it as well.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01You know, just uh, you know, some of the some of the kids that like to hang around. This is a recording studio. I have a lot of people that just want to come hang out.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, and you know, a a little bit of it, I'm not taking any credit. All God gets all the glory, but I've had a chance to share the gospel with a few of these people, and I'm just seeing so many people in our closer circle that I thought there's there's no way I'm even gonna bring it up to them. This is gonna be an argument that I've seen actually come closer to their relationship with God.
SPEAKER_00It's an amazing thing, man. It is, it really is.
SPEAKER_01Um, and we're seeing it in all these podcasts, and we're seeing it in I mean, Theo Vaughn just broke down the other day. There's been a lot of uh uh theologists that have been like reviewing all of his footage from his podcast from that episode because they want to see if they can reach him. Right. Uh like we're we're I mean, Joe Rogan has claimed to be going to church. Uh we've been seeing it all over the place.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's it's pretty crazy. Uh and what what's interesting about that is that it it is now like the age of theological debate and discussion has re-emerged. I I can remember in my um my early life as a believer, I was saying when I was a teenager, but in my 20s, I I um and a lot of people can identify with this, like when you're when you're a new believer, you're like all in and you soak up everything you possibly can like a sponge, and then you just regurgitate it all over everybody else all the time. Yeah. Um it's a which can be a good thing, but it can also be a really bad thing if your theology is all out of whack.
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_00So I was I was in my you know early 20s and I was like a full-fledged five-point Calvinist. You know, I was I was hardcore um in the in the reformed theology. And I I would say that I'm still uh reformed, but I'm definitely not a five-point Calvinist anymore because the Lord has softened my heart in those areas. But that to say, like I was I was and am a just a lover of theology. I love it. I I love the philosophical discussions behind theology. I love theology as it uh pertains to just like straight scripture, truth, how to interpret it, interpret it for what it is, it's truth. I love theology. I used to love to debate theology. And that has started to make a resurgence because now we have um, you know, the the papists, as I call them, uh the Catholic folks, yeah, um, are now making a big push as to why their theology is correct. The Protestants are pushing back on that. I've even had people in my comment section from Eastern Orthodox Christianity debating Catholic theology, debating Protestant theology. It's just crazy. I say all that to say this. I really don't care anymore.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um, you know, um it kind of takes me back to a conversation I had with Brother Bruce not long ago. Um, we were talking about he was explaining to me that there's a huge difference between being intellectual and being a follower of Christ. Yeah. And um, you know, I think what we see a lot in these moments, um, and not in all, so some of them are very genuine and and they put Christ in the middle of their life. Yeah. Um, but you can know all the theology in the world, you can know all the history in the world. Um, if you're not putting it into practice and you're not putting Jesus in the center of your life and having a relationship with him daily, um you're spinning wheels.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, exactly. Um what Chris says it all all the time, and it's probably scriptural. So if I if it is, I apologize, but they became uh so wise that they became fools. Yeah. They they had so much knowledge that they became fools. Yeah. Um, and I think that's where I'm at today. Um, you know, I had a I had a guy criticize me because I said um something to the effect of, look, man, I'm 43 years old. I got maybe 40 years left on this earth if I'm lucky, right? My life is half over. Um and I feel a sense of urgency. Like I just got to get busy about telling more people about Jesus, period. I don't have time to argue theology.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And I got pushback from him uh for that because you know, theology is very important and it's crucial doctrine, blah, blah, blah. And okay, sure. Yeah, it is for you. But for the person, for the person that's sitting on the curb side right now, strung out on drugs, about to bust hell wide open, doctrine is not important to them unless you're talking about the doctrines of grace. Unless you're talking about the doctrine of salvation. Okay, sure, I'll give you that. That's important. But as of right now, it's an emergency. You know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's a priority thing. I mean, we we definitely have to make sure that people are getting saved first before we start throwing everything else in the bucket on top of them.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely right, man. And and once you secure your relationship at Christ, have at it. Read the scriptures as much as you possibly can. Um, listen to all the podcasts. I don't care. You know, uh I we want discipleship and we want to make sure that you're being taught sound doctrine, but at the same time, like the emergent fact is that there's so many people that are dying without a relationship with Christ. Yeah. And we're just allowing that to happen because we're sitting in our comment sections arguing about early church fathers and popes, and why? Why are we doing this?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And you know, I I mean it it kind of scared, it scares me a little bit. I know that uh our pastor loves to say, just 10 minutes. It just takes 10 minutes a day. Read your Bible, you know? Right. Um, but you know, I I get afraid of that statement because of you know, so many people think that, oh well, they can just sit down and read 10 minutes and then go about their day and just kind of forget about it. Like that's that's all they have to do. Um, it's not, it's it's a constant, yeah, constant prayer throughout the day. That's right. It's a studying and trying to understand. Um, it's asking the Holy Spirit to come and guide you through that study and so that you can retain that and pull from it what you need to pull from it, what God needs what wants you to hear.
SPEAKER_00That's exactly right. What's Paul say, pray without ceasing? That's that's not that's not a that's not philosophical. That's literal. Yeah. I think he's being literal about that. Now he's not saying bow your head and close your eyes and go about your day with your heads bowed and your eyes closed.
SPEAKER_01And you know, um, trust me, trust me, it works because uh right now I feel extreme conviction that I just said that and I didn't read mine this morning.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I left it in the car from church yesterday. There you go. There you go, right there. Right there. That's transparency. That's living proof for you, right there. That's exactly right. Um, but it just it the the the allure of debating philosophy and debating theology is not there for me anymore in a lot of ways. And that's surprising to me because of the love that I have for God's word. I just I love it. I love the intricacies of it and the complexities of it. Like I want to know, there's a lot of people that there's a lot of people out there that have issues with Paul because they think that he contradicts himself all the time. I personally don't think he contradicts himself all the time, and I think there's a way to explain all of that. I want to know about all that. I want to dive so deep that I have an understanding about those complexities, but I don't have the desire to go toe-to-toe with somebody on theology anymore. I just don't. And you you know, that person may think that I'm a coward, they may think that I'm, you know, um intellectually inf uh inferior, which is probably the case. Um I don't care. I just simply don't care.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I all I'm interested in is are do you have a relationship with Jesus? That's all I'm interested in. Yeah. We can talk about those things after the fact, but if your God is theology, your priorities are messed up. Yeah. If your God is if your God is the Pope, I'm sorry, uh I don't I'm not trying to to offend any of our um Catholic brothers or sisters, but if your God, if you place uh the Pope over Jesus, uh if you place any man of flesh and blood over God our Father, you're wrong.
SPEAKER_01Plain and simple.
SPEAKER_00You're wrong. Yeah. Um you can't you can't read the scripture and and uh prove yourself right on that in any way, shape, or form. Um and so I just I don't have this desire anymore to um to sit down and just go 10 rounds with you over um, you know, why Protestants are right, or why Eastern Orthodox are right, or why Christian Orthodox is correct, or why Catholics are correct. I just don't have the energy or the drive or the motivation to do that anymore. I think that's um it's really interesting because of the time we're living in, because we have seen the resurgence of faith, right? Um so it's it's it's a little bit interesting to me that at the same time that we see this resurgence in faith is the same time that God takes away my desire to like fight people on theology. Yeah. It's it's really interesting to me.
SPEAKER_01Well, you know, I'm I'm just uh you know, in in my prayers, I'm I'm constantly praying for revival. Yeah, um, I I want to see that um in our town, in our state, in our country, in the world.
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_01Um I know it's not gonna happen everywhere. You know what I mean? Yeah, I I I know that realization is true, but um God, that's that's what I want because I love Christ so much. And I I love everybody around me so much. It it there's something that changed in me in my my early 40s, where which is where I am now, by the way. I've recently changed. Um that I just I have a heart for people more, and it breaks my heart now to see somebody who doesn't have a relationship with Christ.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's a sign of the of the the the revival that we're living in right now, I think. Yeah. I think that God is bringing those who have a genuine desire for him and his people and his church, um, for for those who aren't part of the church to become part of the church by placing their faith in Christ. I think he's giving us a newfound urgency in that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and there's a there's a time too that like I would have thought uh I want you to come to church with me. And they'd be like, Oh, well, we're gonna go so and so. And my thought immediately would be, Oh, well, you're not gonna get what you need over there.
SPEAKER_00Oh, right. You've got been there too.
SPEAKER_01My church.
SPEAKER_00I've been there too.
SPEAKER_01Uh, but I've been so willing to let people run. Um
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I mean, church, go to church. Have a relationship with Christ. That's the thing. Have that personal relationship with Christ and gather with the saints. I don't, I don't care where you go anymore, as long as it's sound doctrine.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01You know, if as long as you're not going somewhere that's just brainwashing the mess out of you.
SPEAKER_00Make sure they're preaching Christ and Christ crucified.
SPEAKER_01Right. Right. And preaching straight out of the word. I love when Chris has these sermons where he just holds up the Bible. He says something, he holds up the Bible and points at hey, hey, hey, this this is yeah, this came straight out of the word. This ain't me saying that. This is not my opinion. Yeah. This is the word. Those are my favorites.
SPEAKER_00Mine too. And you know, thinking back to Jeff, uh here's here's the fact of the matter is in our church, um, we have people who come from a ton of different denominational backgrounds. A ton. Like when I say when I say we run the gauntlet, we run the gauntlet. We got them all, baby. Um here's the fact of the matter, and this has kind of just dawned on me as we're talking about this. I don't know Jeff's denominational background. Never talked with him about it. You know why? It's not important.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Was not important. Um here here's here's what was important to Jeff. Do you know Jesus? And then how can I serve you?
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00That was what was important to Jeff. And if anything, um Jeff's passing from this earth and entering into Christ's arms and him saying, Well done, my good and faithful servant, that has solidified in me that nothing else matters.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And nothing else matters. That's where I want to be so bad. I'm I'm gonna take a letter out of Jeff's book and and be more of a servant.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01You know, I I think about myself so way too much. Um, and what what am I getting out of this? And so, so little do I think, how can I serve this person or this situation?
SPEAKER_00And and sometimes, and most of the time, not even get credit for it. Like you said early uh in in this episode uh that Jeff would do stuff behind the scenes and nobody ever knew that he did. Yeah. That's like that's true. Like there there are things there are aspects of our church that are that exist. There are aspects of our church that exist because Jeff implemented them without us ever knowing. Yeah. Um that's a legacy right there. And it doesn't, and and Jeff was not putting Jeff up on a pedestal. And Jeff would never want to put Jeff up on a pedestal. It was all about Jesus. That's the way that he lived his life. Yeah. And that's the reason that we're sitting here talking about him right now on this podcast.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00You know, Jeff is somebody that um I one of my biggest regrets is that we never got him on this show. Um, I I he was in a short list of names to be on this show because of his military background whenever we were talking about Iran war stuff. You know, Jeff is going, Jeff leaves a legacy, and that's that's what I think I want to just kind of put a um uh tie it tie in a bow and put it right there on on my experience with Jeff and our story is that Jeff quietly, humbly left a massive legacy. Absolutely. It's crazy. Uh his humility and his servant's heart and his servanthood left a massive legacy. And here we are, like Jeff would probably want to crawl under this table if he if he was sitting here and we were saying all these things about him. Oh, yeah. He wouldn't be like, what's hush, stop?
SPEAKER_01Way too humble for that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, way too, but that's the legacy. That's the legacy that I'm talking about. That's the kind of legacy that I want to leave. Um Chris said yesterday in our in our church service, uh, what what is the legacy that he left? Um, you know, was it fame? Did he leave his kids a bunch of money? Did he leave them land? Did he leave them vehicles? All that stuff passes away. What he left them with is a relationship with Jesus.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and a foundation.
SPEAKER_00That's his legacy. That's what I want my legacy to be. I want to I want at the end of the day, when I when I leave this place and I go to meet Jesus, that my family would say, Yeah, we we we're going to miss him, but we wouldn't wish him back for anything, and we'll see him soon. Yeah. And that's the way I feel about my brother. I I'm uh I miss him terribly. But uh brother Bruce said this about his father. Miss him terribly, but I wouldn't wish him back for anything. Absolutely. And that's the way I feel about our friend and our brother Jeff.
SPEAKER_01And trust me, even if you tried to convince them, they'd say no. Right. They're in glory. And the get back down there, man. I'm having a good time up here, brother.
SPEAKER_00Anything, all anxiety, stress, pain, any of that stuff has been washed away. Yeah. And uh he's been he's been made complete and whole. And uh as we wrap up this episode, I just want to say um again to his family that we love you. Holly and the kids, uh, Leo, Millie, Julia, otherwise known as Star. Uh, we love you guys, and we are here. Uh we're your family, and we will walk beside you and with you through all of this stuff and then beyond. Absolutely. And um, you know, there they're probably folks listening to the to the sound of my voice right now, and you're you're probably experiencing something like this. Maybe you've lost a dear friend, maybe you've lost a loved one, a mother or father, um, brother or sister, whatever it is, close family member. Just know that our lives are so short. We're we're here for such a small amount of time. Um what's the most important thing to you today? The most important thing to me in this short life that we have is that I make an impact on my community and my surroundings for Jesus. Um, and that starts with my family and it goes outward from there. Um that's my prayer for everybody listening to the sound of my voice right now. Like, put your priorities where they belong. You're you are a creation of a creator, whether or not you believe that today or not. And whether or not you believe it or not, because you have been created, you in some way long for your creator. And what I would encourage you to do is open yourself up to Jesus today. Um, the Bible says that all you have to do is confess with your mouth and believe in your heart that He's the that He's the Son of God, King of Kings, Lord of Lords. And then you got to make Him Lord, you've got to place Him above everything in your life. Um and that's something that the two of us are figuring out how to do today. Figuring out Um how to how to place Him above all things. And um Yeah, man. I mean it it's not gonna be sunshines and sunshine and rainbows for the rest of your life. That's not how it works. But boy, does there does joy come with the morning? And boy, is there a peace that passes all understanding, especially in the midst of chaos, you know?
SPEAKER_01And if you're already that person and you're not come you're not participating in the Great Commission, let that be your new goal. There you go. Uh if if you've just accepted Christ today by learning this information, hallelujah. But if you're already there, it's your responsibility to keep this thing going.
SPEAKER_00Carry the torch. That's it. Banner of Christ. That's what we want. Hey, we love you guys. Uh Nick Smith, love you, brother. Love you too, brother. Thank you for your your ministry. Uh, whether you are aware of it or not, you got one, and it's impactful. Well, thank you, brother. Uh, and for all you guys out there, we love you. Thank you for your support. Um, I'm gonna leave you with the prayer of our brother, and um we'll see you next time. Love you, God bless you.
SPEAKER_03Outside, it's like I mean it's a beautiful day. Lord, let us remind us how we need the rain. Yes, we need the day. We need the cooling off, Lord. You know what's best for. And even when it's hard, even when it hurts, Lord, you have a life. Thank you for being our life, our love. Help us work that problem. Lord, you can look at it and you can condemn us. There's no combination of all thank you. Allow us to do the thing for others. Remember, if you love them and you love others, if you love them, all the time.