The Topher Brown Show
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The Topher Brown Show
The Prodigal Son
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A FEW EPISODES BACK WE HEARD FROM AMANDA. HER STORY WAS ABSOLUTELY INSPIRING. TODAY WE SIT DOWN WITH HER HUSBAND, GLEN. HIS STORY IS SIMILAR BUT WITH HIS OWN UNIQUE STRUGGLES. JOIN US FOR A DISCUSSION WITH THIS PRODIGAL SON.
A few episodes back we had a friend of ours on the show and she told us her story and it was one of addiction, conviction, but ultimately of repentance and restoration. Today we've got a very similar story, only this time it's not a prodigal daughter, it's a prodigal son. So let's discuss that. This is the Topher Brown show. Hey everybody, welcome back to the Topher Brown show. Appreciate you watching wherever you're watching from, listening wherever you're listening from, and tuning in in general. Got a great show for you today. Got a good buddy of ours on the show who's gonna um tell us his story, and um we're gonna get into all of that and talk about a lot more than that, probably. But uh before we do that, I've got to say hello to my good friend, co-host, producer, studio owner, musician, guitar player, drummer, bass player, all the things. It's Mr. Nick Smith. What's up, brother?
SPEAKER_00Oh, not much. Howdy, howdy America. Did I miss anything? Uh you do anything else besides all of that?
SPEAKER_01Uh Fisherman, Hunter.
SPEAKER_00You know, father, uh, world's best husband. Woo! I I don't know. We're we're spitballing here. Is Michelle listening? Does she listen to these? Does she listen to this podcast? Absolutely not. I wouldn't have said it if she did. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't think my wife listens either.
SPEAKER_01That's perfectly fine. It is a rainy day today, uh, but we're in the studio. We that we we would not be deterred from coming in and recording a podcast for you guys today. Appreciate you uh listening to last week's episode, which was not a regular uh podcast. It was actually a uh uh a session from a series on the the gospels that that uh I did at church. And so we were on vacation, so we threw that episode out there. So we appreciate you guys listening to that. There are actually four more videos in that series. What do you think, Nick? Should we release those at some point?
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. We're we're gonna go on vacation again at some point, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, maybe for like four weeks in a row.
SPEAKER_00Hey, wouldn't that be awesome?
SPEAKER_01And uh not feasible. All right, financially or any of that, emotionally not feasible. Um so what's been going on in your world, brother? I mean, it's you know, we we had last week off week none.
SPEAKER_00Uh when it rains, it pours, and I mean that literally. Uh it's not stopped for like 10 days. Right. Uh so fishing has kind of come to a halt. Uh, you know, playing some gigs, a lot of studio work. Been blessed with a lot of studio work here lately. I'm I'm really happy about that. Um, yeah, man. Praying for my brother on the road or a good friend of the podcast, Wyatt, he's out there uh doing his thing, gigging. Um, yeah, it's it's just been kind of barrage of everything. Yeah, man.
SPEAKER_01Um, which by what by the way, we never plug the studio. Uh, but if you if you ever need if you if any of our musician viewers out there or artists or whatever viewers out there, y'all hit me up. I I've had too much coffee this morning, not enough water. That's what it is. Yeah, yeah. My wife is somewhere right now, she just heard those words and she's chastising me. But uh, yeah, my my buddy in there is like engineer, producer, extraordinaire. If you need that kind of work, he's your guy. Need to hit him up. Uh I I'm not gonna say the name of the studio because it's it's gonna change at some point. He's building it, he's building another studio, so right. The name of the studio might change. Right now, it's just Nick Smith Music. Check it out.
SPEAKER_00Check it out. Instagram, Facebook. Yeah, that's about it. Yeah, he's got uh he's got your uh your recording services. I got about 10 TikToks out there, but they're pretty much all about fishing. So right. Your other passion in life. Right.
SPEAKER_01Well, that's a good passion to have. It's one of my passions too. It's fine.
SPEAKER_00Hey, we're called to be fishermen, right? That's right. Fishers of men. And fish.
SPEAKER_01Fishers of fish and men. I'm fine. I'm fine with both of those things. Uh well, let's get into it today. We've got a good friend of ours on the show, and um if you guys remember back to I don't remember what number episode it was, I stopped counting a while back. Uh, but it was our friend Amanda Pace who was on, and she told us her her story, and man, it was a doozy. And that episode was very well received, so we appreciate you guys watching that and supporting her. But today we've actually got her her less better half on the show. We've got her husband. This is our good friend, Mr. Glenn Pace. What's up, brother? How are you? Hey guys, man, I'm excited. Thank y'all for having me here this morning. Um, let's just see what the Lord does today. Yeah, man. Well, Glenn is uh is a friend of ours. He serves with with Nick and I on our elder board at church. And uh you've been an elder now at church for three years, maybe two, three years. Coming up on three years. Well, appreciate your service. And and Glenn does a lot. Tell tell us what you do, just kind of occupational-wise, and and what you're into.
SPEAKER_02Well, I own a construction business. Um, I am um I'm I've been doing swimming pools for the last 31 years. This is something my mom and dad started back in the mid-80s, mid to late 80s. And um I was just raised doing it and grew up doing it, and um, and I'm still doing it today, still support my family on it. And yeah um and I enjoy I enjoy what I do.
SPEAKER_01There's another good plug for all your pool needs, it uppaced pools. Yeah, please do, please do get you fixed up.
SPEAKER_00Now I'm really glad that my wife doesn't listen to this. Yeah, right. I bet so. I hear that a lot, Nick.
SPEAKER_01Hey, you got a pool, man. You got uh an acre pond over there.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah. I mean, I can go swimming to that anytime I want. And sometimes you do for that kayak flips. I consider it the new baptismal.
SPEAKER_01Hey, there we go. That's cool. Yeah, yeah. But uh, yeah, hit up hit up Glenn for your your pool, no, your pool needs, especially right now. It's about to be summertime, it's about to be hot, y'all. Hot. Absolutely. It's getting here. Yeah, man. But dude, listen, I appreciate you coming on the show because your story, I've heard your story a couple times. Um when it when Amanda came on, I had only really heard her story, story through uh Beautifully Broken podcast. It was the first time I'd heard like the depths of it. Sure. And so when we had her on, she even uh revealed some stuff that she didn't talk about on that podcast, and I was like, oh my gosh, this mind-blowing stuff. But it but it was just such a beautiful uh example of God's grace in somebody's life. Exactly. When whenever we could whenever we could screw up so badly and make all the mistakes, somehow that does not deter him from still imparting his grace upon us, which is an absolutely beautiful thing. Your story's uh no different. Your story is a story of God's grace in somebody's life. Yes. We're gonna kind of get into it. But um tell us a little bit about your early life, like how you were raised, what your relationship with your parents was like, and all that kind of stuff.
SPEAKER_02Look, um, I uh we had a very typical house. Um mom and dad was married 49 years. I was very blessed, two great parents. I had um I had two older sisters, um, which which they moved out early in my teen years, so I was pretty much an only child at home. Um I was going to school, playing a lot of baseball, football. Um just a just a normal childhood. It was nothing extravagant, nothing out of the ordinary. Um we went to church a little bit here and there. We had streaks. We had times where we didn't go to church, but we had times where we went church to church faithfully. And um, but yeah, it was um it was a good childhood.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Pretty close to your good relationship with your parents growing up.
SPEAKER_02Um very good. You know, I was I was a mama's boy. Um my dad worked me like a Hebrew slave coming up. You know, of course, he had a construction business, and uh man, he he instilled a work ethic in me, and um, and I'm very grateful for that today for sure.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, and I can I can attest to that work ethic. Uh Glenn and some of the other guys from our we had a little room addition we had to put on our house because we had an unexpected third child about six months ago. And Glenn came out and helped us build a uh an extra bedroom on that on the house, so I can attest to that personally. I appreciate your your work ethic. Absolutely. And so I got your dad to thank for that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Uh so he's the one that started the pool business, is that right? Sure, yes. Gotcha. So you kind of inherited his business from him. I did. Gotcha. Kind of carrying on the family, family legacy.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_01I love it. So raising church, uh, what what age did you uh come to the Lord? What uh experienced salvation?
SPEAKER_02Well, we went to a small church in Macomb. Uh, we're you know, we're from McComb, Mississippi, and um went to a small church right outside the city limits of Macomb called West McComb Baptist Church, and um was part of the youth group there, and the and uh we had a big youth group there. And one Sunday morning I just I felt a tugging and a pulling on my heart, and um during the altar call, I went down and and and I professed my my faith in Christ. And um there soon after that I got baptized and um started serving in the church at an early age, started working the music board, the sound board for um for everything.
SPEAKER_01I didn't know that, man. You're holding out on us. Yeah, holding out on us at church.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, um, yeah, but um I you know and I look back and I'm not I'm not so sure I knew what I was doing. I know there were some friends of mine in that youth group that that did the same thing, yeah, walked the aisle, said the prayer, and I don't know if I did that just as my friends were doing it, or if I genuinely was seeking Christ. And um, but needless to say, I I did. I I made a profession of faith at an early age.
SPEAKER_01How old were you at that time? Do you remember?
SPEAKER_02Probably 12 years old, 12 or 13. Gotcha.
SPEAKER_01And so it was all sunshine and rainbows after that, right? Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_02Butterflies, puppies, and life perfect since then.
SPEAKER_01Sure. That's how it goes. In case you guys didn't know, you accept Christ, and then life is perfect until you die. All your problems ceased and and they they desist. Of course, we're being facetious. And actually, the Lord never promises us that, despite what a lot of people would like to believe. No. Um in a lot of ways. Sure. Um, so you know, I don't it probably is no secret to you know, anybody listening or watching when we say that you're in your wife's stories are similar, addiction at some point enters the the uh equation, and we'll get there. But kind of walk us um from that moment on into your teenage years and kind of what what you experienced in your teenage years. Well, sure.
SPEAKER_02Um I will I was at at my early teens, I was in McCall public schools, and you know, my father always had me in baseball, was had we were de heavily involved in baseball, and we heard of the baseball program at Parkland Academy. And so they took me out of public schools and put me in in the private school there in McColl simply for the sports program, hoping and just praying I'd get noticed and get a baseball scholarship somewhere. Um I was I was a pretty good athlete, pretty good baseball player. I played football and baseball, but baseball was my stronger sport. I was better in it. Through an injury, through some things that happened, I didn't quite get that scholarship and um ended up graduating high school and and going on to college um at Southwestern Summit.
SPEAKER_01So at what point did you kind of start to experience all the world has to offer? I know, like for me, it hit me in high school. Uh that was kind of my first foray into the world and all of its trappings. Sure. Is that kind of similar for you?
SPEAKER_02It wasn't so much in high school. I was so involved in extracurricular activities. I was like between football and baseball, we had a two-week break from November to December. When football ended, we went two weeks and then we started baseball. So I was I was so heavily involved in that, I didn't have a lot of free time. Now we we we partied and drank beer and and smoked pot uh a handful of times in high school, very few times. But when I graduated high school and got to college, I was meeting all kinds of people, all walks of life. Um I was um hanging around the dorms, um eventually moved into the dorms, and that was a disastrous idea.
SPEAKER_01Kind of got your first taste of freedom, yeah. Parental freedom. Right. Um we we just had uh the the the youth over um actually last night, about a week ago from the recording of this podcast, but we kind of talked about that with them. Like as soon as you hit college, some of the chains are off, you feel like. And it's like I've got my first taste of what it what it feels like to be an adult. Sure. But with those adult freedoms comes adult consequences. Yes. So talk a little bit about your experience here in college.
SPEAKER_02You know, when you're in college, you don't realize the people that you're meeting, you don't understand that their background's a little differ different than yours.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_02And you just you just want to make friends, you want to fit in and you wanna you wanna be popular, and um sometimes that that that leads down bad roads and to bad destinations. And um and uh I made a I made a pile of decisions there in a short amount of time and and and before I knew it, I was in full-blown drug addiction. Full to I say it started out on weekends, yeah, but then it it slowly progressed and it got it was daily, it was every day. And um started missing classes, uh started failing, um, and eventually I lost my Pell Grant and um and I um went back to work for my dad.
SPEAKER_01What were uh what did you get into? What what was your drug of choice at that time?
SPEAKER_02Believe it or not, any of it. Um I if it was put in front of me, man, we were doing it. It didn't um it was um LSD, cocaine, marijuana, prescription pills. Right here in Little Old Mississippi. You name it, brother.
SPEAKER_01Um we were into it, we were doing it. Yeah. You lose your pill grant, you're out of college, and you go back to work for your dad. Did that's did the addiction stop?
SPEAKER_02Absolutely not. Um, you know, I I now I'm I'm working full-time, making pretty decent money.
SPEAKER_01Um Were your parents aware of any of this? I mean, they knew you they knew you that you were in college anymore.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. My mom was kind of kind of naive to it, but my dad was fully on to me, and um, he was trying to have conversations with me and to bring me back down. And um, as hard-headed as I was, I wasn't here. I was I was more concerned about my nightlife and weekends and and and ladies and girls.
SPEAKER_01You're now in the workforce and uh you got a little bit of money coming in. Usually that's not good for people who are in addiction. It's money coming in.
SPEAKER_02You don't realize the chains and the bondage you're putting yourself into. And when I mean chains, I mean something that you can't break free from. You can't break out of. You don't you just don't you don't have that power. Um and once the enemy has you in that in that mind frame and that and that lifestyle, he's got you. And um you have to do it every day just to survive, just to get out of bed, just to just to cope, just to live. Um man, I don't wish that on my worst enemy. Uh some of the worst decisions I ever made in my life. Um and I'm I I'm thankful. I'm grateful for my walk. I'm grateful for everything I went through because now I get to see the glory of Christ every day. And I get to live in that every day.
SPEAKER_01And I'm thankful for it. So you're out working with your dad. Uh you're still in full-blown addiction. This you're you would you be in your 20s at this point? Early 20s, yes. Walk us uh walk us on in from there.
SPEAKER_02Okay, I I get into a long-term relationship with a with a a girl I met through a a mutual friend at a party. We were together for nine years, never got married. Um she and I, and she was in addiction also, and um, and we we we lived we lived in garbage and filth for almost a decade. Um and was just solely and and worried about ourselves. I I lived for myself for so long. I was the most selfish person on the planet. Um I didn't care who I had to hurt or um what I had to do to get that fixed or or to get that next high. Um I wasn't I wasn't into stealing or robbing or or thieving, but you were working pretty consistently at that time. I was. I was um what you try to call a functioning addict. I was working, paying bills, and um but still I had I had the chains and bondage of that addiction.
SPEAKER_01Where was your relationship with Christ at this time? Um were you claiming Christianity this time? Uh you know, a lot of us in the South, you know, let's just let's just throw it out there. A lot of us in the South are brought up in church, and a lot of us feel as though our parents can graft us in by bringing us to church. Sure. Um But as we know, you know, it it that's not how it works. It's the it's the drawing of the Holy Spirit um and and conviction. So my experience is kind of this way. Um I I came to Christ when I was a teenager, but I also ran from him. I came to him, I had a relationship with him, but I also ran from him. Sure. And he consistently pursued me. So where was your uh relationship with Jesus in this time?
SPEAKER_02It didn't exist. It he um he was no nowhere to be found in my life. I was not I was not praying, I was not reading my word. Um I was I was nowhere involved in a church. Matter of fact, I was running a complete opposite way of it, and um I did for a very long time. And I'm sure we'll get to some things here in a minute, but it it it led me to the judicial system to to um to the law and um to some possible imprisonment time.
SPEAKER_01So wow, yeah. All right, so uh you're in a long-term relationship, uh nine years y'all were together. Um where did you go from there?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, um it's crazy. I found out that it that the girl I was seeing at this time was actually sleeping with my drug dealer.
SPEAKER_01Ouch.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Um I went to I went to his house one day to get some drugs and she was there on the couch with him. They were in there watching a movie or whatever they said they were doing, but yikes. Um yeah, that ended it. That ended um I I had to find a new drug dealer. I had to find a new girlfriend.
SPEAKER_01As you as one does.
SPEAKER_02Yes, yes. Um, yeah, that was um that was the breaking point of that right there that ended that. And this was about the time, about the time my dad was retiring, and uh he was getting out of the pool business, and um, and I was I was to the point I was I was been doing it for so long, I done got sick of it. So I was gonna go I was gonna go get my own job, work for somebody else, and that's what I did. I um I went out of town, started working in the plants. I was building scaffolds in Baton Rouge for a scaffolding company. And um the guy I was staying with at the time, his sister, his baby sister and I got together hooked up and um I got her pregnant and had my first child. Wow. I was about the age of 28, 29.
SPEAKER_01All right, you're you're down in Baton Rouge, have had your first kid down there. At this time, are you still in full-blown addiction? Absolutely, yes. Wow. Every day. Wow. So what does having a child do to you in that in that atmosphere?
SPEAKER_02You know, you're still in that selfish mode. You're still just worried about yourself. You're not even thinking about this child that's that's coming to your life. You are, but you're not. You're so you're so wrapped up in yourself that um you you know you need to sober up, you know you need to quit doing what you're doing, but you're still in that sinful, selfish mode and and concerned only with yourself. She and I were together for a little while, didn't get married, and um we ended up splitting up. She ended up taking full custody of of my firstborn son, and um and and and things things only went south. Um once once she left and took him and I was free, and I didn't really have that drive to take care of a child, that drive to take care of a of a girlfriend, and um man, it spiraled, it spiraled and got worse and worse and worse, and um I started doing things that I had never done before. Um, I started stealing, started lying to my parents most of all, lying to my family, um, stealing my mom's prescription meds. I was doing some things, man, that I had never done before. I was I was getting into a different load that that like I said I had never got into. And um and I look back now and I see all that and man it just it it just it spiraled and it's a lot of people.
SPEAKER_01It turned into a different person. It's like you're a different human being.
SPEAKER_02It does. That that pharmakey of spirit, um, and it it it it'll change you, it'll change anybody, no no matter w how you were raised or how How you were brought up, it'll it'll um it'll make you into something that you don't want to be at all. Man, that was some miserable times in my life, and I I I don't wish that on anybody, man. It's just it was terrible. It was absolutely selfish and terrible.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Oftentimes, uh just like we were telling those young people last night, oftentimes those choices lead you into adult consequences. And they led you into some adult consequences. So let's talk about, let's get into that. Uh your first experience with the law, with Johnny Law, and he didn't, he didn't much appreciate what you were up to those days.
SPEAKER_02I got pulled over and I had um I had I had some I had a pretty good bit of of weed on me, um felony possession of weed, and um ended up ended up getting arrested and put in Aymant County jail there in Liberty, Mississippi, the big town of Liberty, which I don't suggest anybody go to. That's a that's a rough, um, that's probably the worst jail I've ever been involved in in my life. But but um, you know, thanks to my mom and dad hiring an attorney and um binding, I mean getting me out of that and um just getting me getting me some help at that time. I went I went to a psychiatrist and I um got involved in a in a uh in a program to where it was three nights a week for like six weeks, and then it got down to two nights a week for four weeks, and but um I did good for a little while, stayed sober for a little while, but um there again I got to hanging around some other people and I got more involved and and got right back into that lifestyle again. How old are you at this time? I'm probably in my early thirties. I don't think I was in my mid-30s yet. I think I was in my early thirties.
SPEAKER_01And are are you back in my comb at that time? I am. Gotcha. At what point did you um and I I might be jumping ahead here, but what at what point did you take over your dad's business and start doing that? Was that around that time or was that still to come?
SPEAKER_02No, that was still to come. That was later on in my late 30s. Um, I wasn't I was doing some swimming pool work, but it was hit and miss. I was I wasn't even really focusing or trying to do swimming pools at that time. I was doing a lot of carpenter work. I was working for a guy out of my comb at the time and um and still trying to live trying to live that night life and that party life.
SPEAKER_01Right. How long were you sober before you went right back in? Probably eight months, six to eight months. Did you did you experience a lot of clarity in that time? Or and then how how did it progress to get back in there? Because you you probably have to think to yourself, like I know that I'm good. I know that this is bad. I know that I'm making a mistake going back into this.
SPEAKER_02If it was any clarity, it wasn't much. Um, and what I mean by that, I was still in the world, I was still hanging around bad people, still being around, the barrooms, um the the casinos, that that type of life.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, and before I knew it, um, like I said, I was right back into it. All right, take us from there. I got back involved with swimming pools, probably in my in my late 30s, and um it's not like I wanted to do it, but I had all the knowledge, all the tools and everything to do it. The the distributor in Jackson where I got all my stuff from. Um, and it's just like the Lord kind of led me back to that. It was like it was like that was that was what the Lord had in store for me. I had just gotten custody of Crystal and White, and I was scared to death. I got full custody of two kids. I was like, who in the world gives me um this addict, this this guy that's lost and and um But you were functioning, so you could probably hide it pretty well. I thought I was hiding it, but I wasn't. I wasn't hiding it from anybody. I was hiding I was trying to hiding it from yourself, maybe. Yeah, maybe. Um, but but no, I I I you know people knew and everybody knew. You could look at me. I was I was I was dried up skin and bones and um I was lost, man. I was severely lost.
SPEAKER_01So you got custody of of your two kids at this point. Um still in full-blown addiction. Um some big boy consequences even yet to come, right? Uh how did it progress from there?
SPEAKER_02Out one night partying, uh just doing my thing, riding around with a girl, and um had a large amount of had a large amount of drugs on me. And um, we pulled pulled into a gas station at five o'clock in the morning to get gas. Um ended up falling asleep in the driver's seat with the windows up and the truck running. Um and I got woke up to a sheriff's deputy knocking on my window.
SPEAKER_01Um That's how we all won't like to be woke woken up, huh?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, um that was that was probably the the lowest and worst moment of my life. You know, my kids, my kids were back home asleep with the babysitter, and um, and I'm out being the selfish, miserable person I was, and um, and now I'm on my jail on my way to jail with six felonies and um and a gun charge. I had my I had my nine millimeter in the truck at the time, and um with all those drugs. Yeah everything was enhanced. All my charges were enough. Because of the firearm. Because of the firearm. Yeah. I was in I was in some serious big boy trouble now.
SPEAKER_01Talking about potential prison at this time.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I went um I went before the judge after I was in jail for about six to seven days, and I finally got before the judge, and um, yeah, I was sentenced to 28 years in the Mississippi Department of Corrections.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Now we we know because we're sitting here talking that you didn't uh have to serve that. So you're sitting in the jail. What's going through your mind when you're sitting in that jail cell? Knowing that you're about to go before the judge and he's about to hand you your fate, essentially.
SPEAKER_02I I knew I knew everything that I had got caught with. I knew everything that was in my possession when I got it.
SPEAKER_01You knew something bad was coming.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I I didn't realize it was gonna be almost three decades in prison, but I I knew it was gonna be it was gonna be pretty hefty. Yeah. Um and and you know, it was just God's pervenient grace going before me. Um man, I got offered um three to five years in the drug court program. If I would complete the drug court program, they would suspend my prison time. Wow and and ultimately wipe my slate clean. So the judge offers this to you on the spot when you're before the judge? Yes, he sentenced me to twenty-eight years suspended with my agreeing to complete the three to five year drug court program.
SPEAKER_01What do you think? I mean, obviously, we're gonna attribute this to God's grace because that's what it was. Sure. What do you think the judge saw in you at that time to to hand you hand you that? Because that's a gift.
SPEAKER_02You know, I'm gonna go out on a whim here and say that you know that he he he saw something in me that I clearly didn't. Um he saw potential. He saw um he saw not a bad person, but just a lost and misdirected person.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And um the drug court program's a great program. Um I I I I remember I remember I went into it with the attitude, man, I need this. I need the help. I need to get out of this lifestyle, I need to get out of the misery I was in. And um, and that's that was that was it. That was the attitude I took at it. I was like, this is a blessing. So I'm gonna take it and I'm gonna take it for what it is, and I'm gonna I'm gonna grow and learn from it.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. Uh where how was your relationship at this point? What what what's God doing in your in your heart at this time?
SPEAKER_02I knew I I knew that my ways weren't working. I knew that um what I was doing was not the path, and um I knew I had to to to turn my life over to Christ fully. Um I I remember, man, I I tried to live in the past with like one foot in the world and one foot in the kingdom. Doesn't work. And no, it doesn't. You know, you know, in Galatians it talks about you will not mock Christ. Um and and that's what I I I tried to do that. I tried to mock Christ. I tried to I tried to live for the world and for him, and man, it just didn't work. Um and and until I realized I need to be sold out completely to Christ and and give my heart completely to Christ. Um, you know, once I come to that point, man, my life changed, everything changed. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Is that right about the time that you're going into drug court and all that?
SPEAKER_02Um, you know, it's uh you know, the year 2022 was a was a crazy year. Um I I um I got into the drug court program, got all my charges, got into the drug court, I met my wife, I started coming in center point, all within about six months.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, and it happened, it all happened pretty fast. And uh uh I look back now, that was uh that was a crazy year.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely. So three to five year drug court, um that you have to complete certain tasks in order to graduate from that, but it has not been five years, but you're at a drug court now. So tell us kind of how it came to be that you got out early.
SPEAKER_02Well, I put my nose down and and I went to work. I did everything they asked me to do. I didn't uh I didn't break any of the rules. I um I wanted to change, I wanted to break free from that lifestyle and that cycle, and that program, the way they design it and the way they they work it, it's for your good. And and and I can I can testify to that because I finished it in a little under than three years. It was two years and nine months I finished that program, and it was it was supposed to be a three-year, three to five, and I did it in an under three. So I took it for what it was and I took advantage of it, and um, it were it worked for my good.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, man, that that's that's a testament right there. Yeah. Um and so I can I can sit here, you know, having having known you for pretty much that whole time that you were in drug court the three years, that um I've never known a Glenn other than the one I'm sitting across from right here. Praise the Lord. And it's so funny, like when talking with you and Amanda, I can't even imagine you guys being in the places that y'all are in just a short time ago. Well, sure. Which is to me is an absolute testimony of God's provenient grace, like you said. It is.
SPEAKER_02It's all you know, it's all Christ. Um, you know, just being that new creation, what he does, when you know, he he changing the desires of your heart, the desires of your life. Um and what what you what what you want now is what he wants. And um, and man, I I can testify to that that it's for real. Um, he's for real. Um his grace is for real. And um, and man, I I I pray, I pray somebody listening to this can can get hope out of this, can get can get a message um that there is hope. Um and in his name is Jesus Christ.
SPEAKER_01Amen, man. Um and God has a way of um changing your desires, but also giving you the desires of your heart, right? Yeah. Um so whenever your eyes were open to God's grace, what was your experience like in him changing the desires of your heart and then kind of fulfilling them in you? Because you're we're here now, right? Three three years, or how long have you been sober at this point? I'll um this this upcoming July be four years. Four years. Um, and you're you're a completely different person than you were in that time. Absolutely. Um, so how has God kind of reshaped your focus? Um, and I guess, you know, thinking back on those times, is there anything is there anything about that lifestyle that you miss? Or is it all just full steam ahead?
SPEAKER_02You know, that lifestyle, I you know, I said this a minute ago. I don't wish it on anybody. That is something that is something that we put our own selves into. Um and you it you don't even realize you're doing it. You're you're um you you think you're being cool, you think you're being cute, um, you think you're being popular, um, and it's just leading, it's leading to destruction, misery, heartache. Um, man, you name it. It's um it's it's a life that not many people survive, not many people come out of. Um, and I just I I you know the and I look back on all the shady drug deals I was involved in, all the car wrecks, um, all the trips to different county jails, you know, you know, the Lord was with me the whole time, man. He was throwing me grace. He was throwing me grace, and I didn't even I didn't even see it. I didn't even realize that's what it was, but I look back now um at some of those memories, and I I see it now. I see it more evident than than ever. Um I I owe everything to him. How could I not give him my heart completely? How can I not give him my life completely looking back?
SPEAKER_01It's a beautiful testimony, man. Um, because you know, my my my personal testimony probably isn't as exciting as yours, but it is definitely similar in the fact that at some point in my life God opened my eyes to his grace. And when I think about that, I think about the things that I did as a younger man, all the mistakes that I made. Sure. And I am utterly relieved at this point in my life that I am not destined to repeat those mistakes. Yes. You know what I mean? Yeah. And I have to I have to imagine that for somebody like you and your wife, looking back on all of the trauma that you guys have been through and also created for yourselves, that you can't look at look back on that with anything but just utter relief that you're not there anymore.
SPEAKER_02And like I said, you you it starts out, you mean you you just you're you're uh like for me, I was just doing it on the weekends. I I I wasn't trying to be an everyday drug user. Um it was just a a weekend party, maybe on a Thursday night, but it wasn't even really during the week. Um and before you know it, you're doing it every day, every minute, every hour, every day. Got a hold of you. Yeah, yeah. Um and if you don't have it, if you're not doing it, you're miserable. You can't eat, you can't sleep, you can't you can't function.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02It's um and it's literally chains. You're putting yourself in chains.
SPEAKER_01Yes. Um, and then of course now hindsight being 2020, you're in God's will, and you know, for me conviction is a whole nother animal. You know, we we we come out of the things that we've been so used to doing. And um, you know, like there's there's a certain area in my life that God has is absolutely delivered me from. Um I have not even thought about that that thing since he delivered me from it. But now is the introduction of conviction in my life, right? When I when there's even a temptation of it, right? It's just like uh I want nothing to do with it. I want nothing to do with it because God has changed the desires of my heart and He's He's allowed me to look back on those things with like you said, not necessarily regret because it's part of your story, right? It's the story of God redeeming you, but you look back on those things and go, thank you, Lord. Yeah, I should have been dead. Yeah, yeah, you know. That's right. Or in prison. Or in prison. Right. But now you've got your kids, you're clean and sober, you got a wonderful wife.
SPEAKER_02Yes, yes, God's blessed you. He has. Yeah, man, has he blessed me? Um, and I I that's that's the beauty of it. I don't understand it. I don't, man, why me? Why, why, why do you see fit to restore, redeem, and bless me the way you have? I I'm just a a wretched sinner, you know, saved by grace. And um man, I'm thankful for that grace. I'm thankful for him, I'm thankful for for his sacrifice on the cross and ultimately um for for God never giving up on me.
SPEAKER_01And I'll say this, man, like, you know, I've been in ministry for a long time, and there are people that I've come in contact with who have similar stories to y'all's. And a lot of those people are destined to repeat uh their failures, their past mistakes. Um and there's always like, you know, for those of us in in ministry out there, you'll know what I'm talking about. There's always that temptation to be skeptical, you know, you know what I'm saying? Right. To to go, oh man, that person's coming out of a life of addiction and they're on fire for Jesus. How long is it gonna be before they fall back in? But my experience with you and Amanda and some of the other people at our church who have come out of that lifestyle is a genuine turning away from former self, dying to former self. Uh, so much so that like, you know, and we might might as well throw it out there. My daughter and your son are now claiming to be boyfriend, girlfriend. I can't stand that kid.
SPEAKER_02My my son, I'm gonna tell you, I am uh I I I'm gonna get back everything that I dished out, I can tell you now.
SPEAKER_01Well, look, look, you know, and they're 10, so what do they really know? They don't know anything yet. But I will say this like I've always dreaded the the first boyfriend my daughter ever had. But it being Wyatt, your your boy has been almost a relief for me in a way. Yeah. Uh and that's kind of the point I'm getting at. Like, I I I trust my I would trust my children with you, yeah, uh, and Amanda, right, and your family. Because I know, I I have no doubt that God has absolutely radically changed y'all's lives. Yes. And uh that is the mark uh of a of a true conversion and a true redemption story to me. And uh, you know, maybe one day we'll we'll be related by marriage. Slow down a little bit. If I don't kill somebody before then, slow down a little bit. It's so funny, but um, but man, look, let me just tell you, I I'm I'm thankful for your friendship, and I'm thankful for most importantly, I think I'm thankful for what the Lord's done in your life because it has changed other people's lives, probably whether or not you know that. Uh your story has has changed other people's lives and will continue to do so as long as you continue to to to share it.
SPEAKER_02I enjoy, I enjoy sharing my story. It's it's painful, it's painful to relive some of that and to go through it again. Just knowing the heartache and misery I caused others is the reason I say that. Um you know, I I now now my focus is on other people, um, the Lord and other people. Um I I I I wouldn't dare want to want to break somebody's heart or cause any misery to anybody anymore. I've done enough of that in my past.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And um, man, I've I've put enough, I I put my poor parents through absolute hell for so long. And I, you know, I'm I'm thankful. I'm thankful for them most of all because they they never gave up on me. They they saw they saw who I was, other than the drugs, without the drugs, they saw who I was. And um, you know, I look back and man, I never fit in. When I was in that lifestyle, I never fit in. I was trying to be a thug, I was trying to be cool, trying to be, but I I never fit in with them. I was I was called, I was different then.
SPEAKER_01Yep.
SPEAKER_02I was called then. He was calling me, yeah, and I never knew it. I I loved my sin, I loved myself, and uh I look back now at um all the people I was around, and man, I I never fit in with them. I I didn't I didn't fit that criteria. I was trying to be something that I wasn't designed to be, and I wasn't called to be.
SPEAKER_01So many people think that they need to be qualified in order to come to the Lord. And it and it's absolutely the other way around. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02That's the furthest thing from the truth. Yeah. Um just just look at my lifestyle and um just look at my life, and um, and that's a testimony to that.
SPEAKER_01My wife reminded me of it yesterday. She said, uh it's all threadbare cliche, but it's it's no less true that um God doesn't call the qualified, he qualifies the called. Absolutely. And uh it's that's clear in your life, man. It's clear in Amanda's life. And um I you know I I I personally believe that your kids are gonna benefit from that greatly we we often we talk about like um you know we're destined to to make the same mistakes and stuff that our parents did we talk about generational curses and breaking generational curses you kind of head that off at the past because you were creating your own generational curse I was and God said no sir yeah not today I was so that's a testament in itself that you were able to head that off and say no no no the buck stops here that's over with you know I I I I try to instill godly character into my kids my wife does too um godly morals you know I I read I read my my Bible a lot I read it all the time and my children both my children see me reading it they see us they see us um play and worship music they hear it they sing it um they they um they watch they watch the TV shows that we watch and um they they see they see where our where our desires are in our hearts and man we just we just pray they stay that path they're just excellent kids man you guys are doing a good job well they're so good and look when I tell you my wife what a blessing she um man I was trying to raise two kids alone by myself when I got full custody and why I I could probably do but crislin you know raising a little girl and I have no idea about girl things and and you know and and man my my wife I I can't give her enough credit I can't say enough good about her she is just um man you landed a good one brother you know I I read something the other day I read something the other day it said um you know I can see your grace in the spouse that you gave me see God's grace in the spouse that you gave me and that's true man I can see God's grace in in Amanda you know the spouse that he gave me and um no doubt about it man she and she's just oh man what a rock star I mean seriously what a rock star she's she's amazing she is God's using her testimony too and uh I I fully believe that he's gonna use yours even through this little platform um but look man I just want to say thank you for coming on the show thank you for sharing all that I know that a lot of it's painful to think back and talk about but ultimately the Lord uses that and uh he's gonna use he's gonna use you in that way so I appreciate it.
SPEAKER_02Man let's do it yeah I don't mind it at all if it'll help somebody I'll I'm I'm all for it on the let's let's let's focus on God let's focus on others and um and we'll be a lot better off.
SPEAKER_01Amen brother well thank you again man for coming on the show and uh Mr. Nick Smith you got anything you want to add in there brother any problems you need to solve?
SPEAKER_00Uh yeah I wanted to um I wanted to ask if uh the celebrate recovery was part of your journey.
SPEAKER_02It was Nick um you know in drug court they asked you to make meetings um now whether that's AA or NA or or celebrate recovery celebrate recovery is part of their requirements it's um it's part of their deal so but I was so focused on getting my life turned around getting back in in God's will so I chose celebrate recovery I didn't do the AA and NA and I I went where the power was and you know um and celebrate recovery that's that's the benefits of it Christ is involved in it and um and where Christ is there's power power to break chains and um that I got I got heavily involved in celebrate recovery.
SPEAKER_01That's cool man um the uh I think we'd be doing our listeners a disservice if we didn't plug um centerpoint church uh Tuesday nights uh there's celebrate recovery at six o'clock um if you have any kind of hurts habits or hang ups it's a great place to to bring those things forward and uh you know if if you're not in the area and all you have is A N A please please seek those things out but um with celebrate recovery it puts Christ in the center there's not just a higher power that you choose sure on your own it's the higher power it's the higher power absolutely and uh that's that's a we have a we have that that celebrate recovery that he's referring to is that our church like he says center point church and we have an excellent team and you're part of the leadership team there on that celebrate my wife and I both are part of the um the leadership team there that's been a that's been a huge ministry in our life we man there's that's probably my most favorite night of the week is Tuesday nights um and that ministry has changed a lot of people's lives it has um it it's it's lasting lasting change it's not just a a a momentary change or a short change it it's it's change at last and um if you're truly concerned and you want to work on yourself and um yeah Tuesday nights 6 p.m 504 West Congress Street come see us yes Glenn thank you buddy appreciate your story man thank y'all for having me thank y'all come back and let's do it again we'll talk about some theology next time yeah let's do it we're lovers of theology Glenn and I and Nick too but yeah we'll talk we'll talk about it later uh Nick Smith love you buddy brother appreciate all you do uh to you guys watching and listening thank y'all and we love y'all and uh look if you're out there right now and you're struggling with some of the things that that Glenn and Amanda have struggled with addiction whatever it is just know that there is hope. There's not only just hope in the world and hope for yourself but our true hope lies in the hope that is Jesus Christ and his gospel. Amen and um that's what we want for you we want you to have the hope we want you to have the peace that passes all understanding. When you can have hope in the midst of chaos that's where Jesus is and uh that's what we want for you. That can be yours today if you if you um confess with your mouth and believe with in your heart. So if that's you out there we love you we're praying for you and all of you guys listening and supporting the show thank you so much we want to tell you that um you can financially support us if you so choose if you if you want to pray about that and do that it helps the show it helps us kind of keep going and you can do that at patreon.com slash tofer brown. Other than that we love you we'll see you on the next episode.