New York - Part 3

In this third episode of the New York Trilogy we look into some of the details of food and gallery visits.

We talk shopping in New York, Old buildings and new concepts like trip planning with AI, when to trust it and when to ask again.

In episode 26 we will be catching up on questions from the first 25 episodes, so if you have that burning question on the tip of your tongue then just ask.

If you have a story to share or some feedback to give just contact us at contact.unraveltravel@gmail.com

Our theme music is Traveler's Blues by Jerzy Gorecki from Pixabay (with licence)

https://pixabay.com/users/jerzyg%C3%B3recki-2233926/

Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:09

Welcome to Unravel Travel, where every journey has a story.

SPEAKER_04 0:19

The financial district does have bars around, and that was where I spend a lot of the time. Or yeah, but you book started to say you had to go a long distance and I was seeking out an Irish bar for uh breakfast and watching the football, so maybe it was a case of it's uh dedicated, you know, Irish bars or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 0:41

Before we went to Manhattan in the evening, we went we found a bar uh just off the financial district in that the old sort of warehouses and stuff where the big boats are moored, the tall boats, and it had a load of bras hanging from the ceiling. Did you ever go for that one? Because that's that's around where you were it was like a dive bar, you know. We went from a dive bar to a $450 restaurant. And in the end we just mooched around and did a bit of shopping, really, which seems a bit bit slack, but that's what we did.

SPEAKER_04 1:13

I I don't know actually. I've I've quite always quite enjoyed shopping in New York. I I used to go to the I think it was Century 21 or something. You know, you used to be able to buy stuff an awful lot cheaper there, maybe not anymore. But not just that, as I said on the earlier episode, I got a Kenny doll, which just wasn't available uh anywhere else. So, you know, there is stuff that you I think shopping is worthwhile in New York. I know it's not what you and I normally do, but there's type into Google where can I buy the sort of dolls I can't buy in Europe? Yes, definitely not. Well, not on your own Google account anyway.

SPEAKER_01 1:59

Your small town blues, they're melting away. I'm going to make a brand new start of it in old New York. You always make it there, you make it anywhere, it's up to you, New York, New York, David. Very good.

SPEAKER_04 2:16

And who first sang that?

SPEAKER_01 2:19

Uh well I'm guessing it might not have been Frank Sinatra.

SPEAKER_04 2:25

Correct. I always thought it was, but then I watched a film recently. Oh, okay. Of the same name, New York, New York. And since we talked about how much we both love musicals, this was actually a musical film. Uh and it was Liza Manelli that sang it first.

SPEAKER_01 2:41

Oh right, okay. That would have been much more whiny.

SPEAKER_04 2:46

You're a fan, I can tell. It wasn't bad actually, but yeah. Or blue eyes, he does it best. Um, old New York, that's a difficult thing to find.

SPEAKER_01 2:55

Is that an oxymoron? Yeah, probably. Um if you can explain to me what an oxymoron is, then I'll say no, I know what an oxymoron is.

SPEAKER_04 3:04

Good, because I was gonna struggle to explain it. I know how to use it, but I'm not sure I could actually uh give a dictionary definition very well.

SPEAKER_01 3:11

But it's funny, isn't it? You think at New York is you know, it's you think of it as ultra modern, but actually the bits that are most interesting are the older bits.

SPEAKER_04 3:19

Yeah, certainly, yeah, in my experience, although it was such a long time ago that I was there uh that even some of the bits you saw and we talked about on the previous on the previous episode in New York, uh I don't think were there when I went there. But anyway, maybe we should explain uh we're doing uh a follow-up episode on New York, uh, because there is so much to do there. Uh we felt that after we'd done the previous two episodes, there was uh quite significant pieces that we uh we left out of those two episodes, so we thought we'd give it another go, do them justice. So I don't know if you want to uh because you were there recently, Malcolm, so maybe if you want to cover some of the areas that you didn't get to talk about on the other episodes.

SPEAKER_01 4:01

Yeah, well l let me contrast a bit of the older and the newer bit then, I guess. Well you mentioned about uh Dumbo and this view you get of the Empire State Building through the Manhattan Bridge. It's in one of those old districts of Brooklyn which is old warehouses, you know, warehouses stacked up by the river.

SPEAKER_04 4:23

So the old meatpacker district or not?

SPEAKER_01 4:27

No, because that's in Manhattan, but it's like that. That's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_04 4:31

Sorry, yeah, yeah, yeah. Talking Brooklyn. That's why I didn't recognise it.

SPEAKER_01 4:34

But those sort of warehouses, you know, brick-built warehouses, say three or four stories high. You could be in Manchester or Leeds or Gloucester or those sort of port areas. It's like that, it's just like that. There's more cyber trucks driving around and yellow cabs, but but but it's it's like that, and that's quite quaint, you know, the contrast to the big buildings knocking about. That's quite a good thing, um, I think. Um and those those areas like like the Chelsea market, and as you say, that's more meat packing area. Um the just that difference makes it very interesting.

SPEAKER_04 5:12

Um Yeah, as I said, not I I never left Manhattan and I'm not even sure I went to the meatpacking district, but I'm uh I might have been to a restaurant near there actually. But yeah, it'd be something I'd be interested in if I were to go back to New York.

SPEAKER_01 5:26

Yeah, and then you you know, just up the road from the meatpacking area, you've got Hudson Yards, you know, with which has got this big edge building and lots of big office block complexes. I think the the underlying geology, correct me if I'm wrong, David, of Manhattan. Oh yeah, right. That as if that I'm gonna know. I think we need Mark Squires. Um I think the the the bit at the tip and then the the bit you know around Central Park or Midtown um supports deep piles for tall buildings, but I think other parts of it don't so well. That's why you get this variation in the in the building heights. You know, because you do have the battery park area in financial district, very tall buildings, tall buildings up at the other end, but not so much in the middle.

SPEAKER_04 6:16

I'd never given that any thought, but you're quite right. So I'm sure it's a good thing. Otherwise the reasoning behind it must be right as well, otherwise everywhere would have tall buildings.

SPEAKER_01 6:26

Yeah. But it does it does lend a you know, I I'd always thought I think that New York had a sort of homogenous layout, you know, it's grid, um, there's tall buildings everywhere, but it's not like that at all. There's quite a variation.

SPEAKER_04 6:39

Yeah, that's true. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:42

Um and Chinatown, did you get to Chinatown at all? You must on your various walks back to Battery Park, you must have wandered through Chinatown.

SPEAKER_04 6:50

I did, yeah. Chinatown, Little Italy. If I again it's so long ago, but they're quite close to each other, I think, Chinatown and Little Italy. Um but yeah, uh you know, it's nice seeing something that's not traditionally American in when you're wandering around, because it it they are very clear when you wander especially Chinatown when you wander into it.

SPEAKER_01 7:11

Yeah. I like a Chinatown. I mean, maybe it's because I lived in Singapore for two years, that might have something to do with it.

SPEAKER_04 7:17

But the biggest Chinatown in the world. Probably.

SPEAKER_01 7:21

Uh well the the Chinatown area of Singapore i is very Chinatown, you know, there are different regional areas in the same. They have a a a feel, don't they? It was very much like Chinatown in London, you know. For New York it was quite a windy alley sort of place, you know, it had a few windy alleys and you know, seating on streets, eat people eating out on the street, etc. Without cars, which you don't necessarily I thought you're gonna say without dogs. Sorry. Is that a Korean reference? We've mentioned it in earlier podcasts. Yeah, and proper wet markets, you know, uh which are which are always really good, aren't they? Uh I don't know if you get into them, but the the you know live fish and prawns and stuff for sale.

SPEAKER_04 8:07

Yeah. I I never I've never bought uh from a a live wet market j generally just because I don't have cooking facilities where I'm staying, because it's mostly out in Asia when I'm doing it.

SPEAKER_05 8:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 8:20

But I it it does make me wish I did have cooking facilities because you know the quality of the food is gonna be so good.

SPEAKER_01 8:27

Yeah, absolutely. That that was quite nice. I mean Chinatown was an interesting place to wander round, you know, even if you can't speak Chinese, but it is it's that sort of classic. It's China for the Chinese people, isn't it? Because every all the signs are in Chinese lettering. You only find the thing you want because you've got Google Maps.

SPEAKER_04 8:45

Yeah, unfortunately I didn't get a chance to eat in Chinatown in uh Manhattan. But uh did you or or did you eat anywhere else that was good?

SPEAKER_01 8:53

No, we didn't. Um it was where we went to the smoke shop though, um, so that was it that was in Chinatown, although they're everywhere. Um but it does make me think of seafood. Um I can't imagine there's any lobster left on the Atlantic coast of America. I mean there was lobster for sale everywhere.

SPEAKER_04 9:13

The main lobster's famous, isn't it? Uh but I guess they must are they still getting it from there or are they shipping it in from somewhere else, then do you reckon? I don't know. But I mean there's sort of yeah, it is it is very famous, isn't it? Yeah. Are they big or are they small lobsters?

SPEAKER_01 9:29

Um that's a good question. I don't think I ever saw a whole one fresh, you know, with an elastic band around its pincers in a in a market. Yeah, yeah. But um but we we ate. Didn't try any. Um I I had scavenged some pickings off Petra's plate, but Petra had lobster about three times, I think. Was that all you were allowed? Well I'll give you a little picking. What are you eating? Uh uh well I I sort of uh lots of different things, I think, but the the lobster just seemed to be a theme. I didn't know that it was a thing particularly, but it clearly is. I mean, on the TV there was lobster restaurant adverts everywhere.

SPEAKER_04 10:12

You've obviously not seen the affair, have you? No. The the TV show, which is set uh up that coast, I think, up or down, not that far from New York, and there's lobster restaurant in it, and yeah. So it's definitely a thing for that area. I would have been with Petra having the lobster.

SPEAKER_01 10:29

Yeah, the I mean it was it was very nice and um uh but I had a I I had I think club sandwich when she had the lobster salad and and then we went for um so we went for a sort of special meal again recommended by Chat GPT excellently. I said we want to go for a sort of special dinner, you know, like special honeymoon dinner, where would you recommend? And it came up with this place called Manhatta. Manhattan Manhattan It's in the financial district, it's on the 60th floor, it's a restaurant on the 60th floor. Uh it the the views are you know out towards the Statue of Liberty and then back uptown towards you know, all those and it's on that edge of the financial district, so the views uptown are totally free, and of the bridges and you know the rivers, etc. Fantastic view. And we went and had uh dinner there. I mean, uh I think you characterise me generally as a stingy person, David, and I characterise you as even stingier. You characterise me as stingy.

SPEAKER_04 11:37

I don't think I characterise you as stingy.

SPEAKER_01 11:39

I think I characterise myself as as a as a Yorkshireman.

SPEAKER_04 11:42

You I was gonna say you characterise yourself that way. I just look up to you as being the the the most uh flamboyant, generous uh thing to aspire to.

SPEAKER_01 11:54

Yeah, right. Um and Petra's even stingier than either of us. So I I booked this restaurant and I told her I'd booked it, and we looked at it online, but I searched it how much it was gonna cost. I didn't tell her till till afterwards. It was $450. Which for me is quite a lot.

SPEAKER_04 12:14

It's just it's about £300.

SPEAKER_01 12:16

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That was before the tip.

SPEAKER_04 12:21

Yeah, exactly. But you just paid it. And besides, you you know, you're married now, so you're sharing it. That's right. Notice you didn't do it pre-marriage.

SPEAKER_01 12:33

Uh yeah, it was great. Um it was a surplus for the lobster on the main course, but you know, she went for it anyway. So uh but it I mean that was fantastic, you know, those sort of views at dinner. Again, a sunset thing. Uh and the food was amazing, but not particularly American. There wasn't a burger in sight or hot dog or pizza. I didn't have any of those things, I don't think.

SPEAKER_04 12:54

Hopefully not for $400. If you're gonna push the boat out, you want to I mean that that's what I you know, you characterize me as stingy, but it's more that I think I'm willing to pay for stuff that they can be done better than I can do. Yeah. Uh and without blowing my own trumpet, just bought myself a new pasta maker, so I'm gonna be improving my pasta making skills. Uh, you know, I I I've got some good kit here. I I make decent food. Uh, but if it's something I know I can't make, I'm very happy to, you know, go out there and spend the the the dollars in that case.

SPEAKER_01 13:28

And that's exactly the same thing as we all say. Uh we always say, you know, if you go to a restaurant and you think, well fuck, I could have cooked that at home. Yeah, okay. It's nice not to have to cook sometimes. It's nice not to cook sometimes, but you really want something standout if you if you go exactly absolutely, it totally, totally was that. Um, and very nice wine. Although I went all the way from the Cotswolds to New York and had a lamb for the main course. So that was a bit yeah, okay, maybe, but that seemed like the best choice on the menu, and and it was uh if it's cooked, if it's cooked well.

SPEAKER_04 14:05

Yeah, absolutely. I'm a bit fussy when it c well, you know, I'm fussy anyway, but yeah, when it I lamb done as well as it can be done, I love it. Absolutely amazing. Yeah. Uh I I just want to be eating the meat, not all the other stuff that comes with it. Yeah. All the bristle and such like sometimes on some of the cuts. But a lamb cutlet done properly, it's hardly any meat on it, but ah, does it taste good? Yeah. Nice and pink. You're listening to Unravel Travel on the subject of New York trilogy.

SPEAKER_01 14:34

And I think other bits of foody stuff we didn't talk about. I bagels. I I've convert I was converted to several things. I I never really I always couldn't see the point of bagels.

SPEAKER_04 14:46

I mean I wasn't jazz, but you're gonna have to convince You're gonna have to convince me. Uh maybe not now, but yeah, like you, not really convinced by bagels. Too solid, aren't they?

SPEAKER_01 14:57

Uh well uh here I I I you know you buy them from the supermarket and they've never really had that I I couldn't see the difference really from a bread roll, really. But these ones were were I mean, maybe you're getting it from the specialists, but we had some really nice bagels a couple of times. Um, and I would definitely do that again, but I'm not convinced I'm gonna buy them here.

SPEAKER_04 15:18

Um but were you were you having some I mean the one of the classics is uh smoked salmon and cream cheese in a bagel? I could buy that. I could yeah, I'd be happy with that.

SPEAKER_01 15:28

Yeah, that's what Petra had, and that was very nice. I had crispy bacon and something like that. Uh BLT, maybe I think it was a BLT, something like that. Yeah. And coffee. I mean, I uh I'm a tea drinker mostly. I might have one coffee a day. Dorkshire tea. That's right. And we took some with us, obviously. Because you're never quite sure what you're gonna get. But the coffee was was excellent, and everywhere, you know, it's a bit variable, isn't it? In the UK, you can even the big chains, the coffee's sometimes good and sometimes well, one of the best coffees I had uh was Starbucks.

SPEAKER_04 16:02

You'll probably hate me for that, but was Starbucks in New York. Uh and I had a Starbucks when I came back to England, and it wasn't the same. They just make it it's a different blend for New York, and it just happens to agree with my palette, their blend.

SPEAKER_01 16:16

Yeah. And I I actually go in Starbucks occasionally here as well.

SPEAKER_04 16:20

Um but uh I I thought they might be in the McDonald's bucket.

SPEAKER_01 16:25

Well, sort of, but I like a a frappe and uh they're good at those, a frappuccino, whatever it's called, and they're good at those, so I right so that that allows them uh a free pass for not paying any tax. Uh but I might be revisiting that. Um But just anywhere, you know, little coffee shops, people selling it from bicycles on the street or whatever, it was always good. There was we never had a bad coffee. Um they've got something down pat there, haven't they? For sure. Yeah. In the way that you just don't forget that everywhere anywhere else. Although Cuba, I seem to remember the coffee was always excellent as well. Well, one of the things I noticed was about cafes uh the Americans have got a funny arranged ri relationship to alcohol, haven't they? It it seemed it seemed unusual to me, not very European. Well, yeah, okay, but but not very European particularly. You couldn't easily find somewhere, you know, we're on holiday, f I'm not driving, which is it's not very often we go somewhere and I'm not driving, because normally we're in check and I'm driving and therefore I can't have a beer. So it's like, oh well, I can have a I can have a drink at lunchtime, that's quite nice. You're on holiday. But finding a place, you know, most of the places that did like fast food, they were like takeaways and they didn't s they didn't serve beer, you know, and the bars don't really open until later in the day in most places. Unless you go to a restaurant or a cafe, you know, for a proper sort of sit-down, you couldn't really get a drink anywhere, which I found quite annoying.

SPEAKER_00 17:57

Uh you had to go a long distance.

SPEAKER_04 17:59

I didn't have that I didn't have that problem, but I think that might have been uh you know, again, a long time ago, so it could be different now. Um the financial district does have bars around, and that was where I spend a lot of the time. Um or yeah, but you started to say you had to go a long distance, and I was seeking out an Irish bar for uh breakfast to walk and watching the football, so maybe it was a case of it's uh dedicated you know Irish bars or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 18:28

Before we went to Manhattan in the evening, we went we found a bar uh just off the financial district in that the old sort of warehouses and stuff where the big boats are moored, the tall boats, and it had a load of bras hanging from the ceiling. Did you ever go for that one? Because that's that's around where you were it was like a dive bar, you know. We went from a dive bar to a $450 restaurant. I I I think a load of bras hanging from the ceiling up there. You would have remembered it. Yeah, okay. I just suddenly wondered, thought while it's in the area where you were staying, you might have been there.

SPEAKER_04 18:58

What was the idea? Did you have to leave your bra be uh hanging?

SPEAKER_01 19:01

If you left your bra behind, you could get a drink. Um I just I just didn't want to leave mine. I'm too attached to it.

SPEAKER_04 19:07

Yeah, well, next time you'll you'll be aware, won't you? And you'll take a bag of bras with you. Yeah, that's right. On Primark or something.

SPEAKER_01 19:16

Um so but yeah, it was it was quite difficult to get drinks. We ended up having cocktails quite a bit, but maybe that's just a honeymoon thing. Um, some nice cocktail bars in sort of midtown, you know, but not not really so much out in Brooklyn. Um but one of the things I really enjoyed about New York was just people watching. I mean, it seems to me you can wear whatever you want to in New York and look. If you've got the confidence, you can probably get away with it. Look fabulous, darling. And people are people aren't even gonna take a second look. I mean me. I'm sorry You see what he was wearing.

SPEAKER_04 19:55

It was were people taking a second look at you, Malcolm, or did you get away with it as well?

SPEAKER_01 19:59

I think I I think I carried it off very well.

SPEAKER_04 20:02

Carried it off very well, yeah. I've I've seen the Facebook posts. I I'd read that if I was you. Oh yes, yeah, I've forgotten about the hat. So obviously you were carrying it off because it didn't strike me as just struck me as being you.

SPEAKER_01 20:18

Um but you you just I mean, people are wearing such a range of different fashions and styles and lack of style and you know cash, super smart, but the whole range of things. Um and it was a really quite an interesting mix that you I mean even in London you don't really see that sort of mix of people, I think. Um maybe the warm weather brought it out of them, maybe it's obviously not the same when it's minus ten and everyone's wrapped up, but uh but it was quite interesting that and I like people watching like that.

SPEAKER_04 20:52

The only problem is I should imagine it's a great big mix of culture as well, couple different cultures, yeah. Which will sort of add to the uh menagerie of fashion accessories and styles.

SPEAKER_01 21:04

Yeah, the the problem is sitting there there isn't really a pla i unless you sit in a a restaurant or a cafe on the street, there aren't really places to sit and and soak up that sort of you know, people watching.

SPEAKER_04 21:19

Some of the parks.

SPEAKER_01 21:20

Yeah, some of the parks.

SPEAKER_04 21:22

That's what I was gonna say. Actually, that reminds me. Did I mention my story about the park and this guy chasing after his dog? I don't think I mentioned it on the previous episode. Okay, so far away. So perfect example of people watching. I was in um Central Park, um as Manhattan is sort of like towards the main bit of Manhattan on the east side of it, uh huh, near the entrance. And I'm there's an outcrop of rocks, and I was just sat there just soaking up the the atmosphere.

SPEAKER_01 21:53

You sat on a rock with a pointy hat and a fishing rod.

SPEAKER_04 21:57

People kept putting uh 50 cent pink. Down at my feet. I couldn't understand it. Um, and then I I just hear this this guy, uh well, I see this dog running towards the exit of Central Park, and you know what the the streets are like they're sort of like three, four lanes, probably bigger. Uh so the guy's somewhat uh nervous for what his dog's doing. Anyway, so he starts shouting uh after the dog, and uh in a very uh camp voice, he's Romeo! Romeo! Wherefore at they? Exactly. You just know when he named his dog Romeo that he was gonna love the opportunity to be shouting out Romeo the whole time. But yeah, people watching. That that was uh the the the standout memory from uh when I was people watching in New York.

SPEAKER_01 22:52

Yeah, and the parks are an obvious place to sit and do that. Like I say, we did that in the Washington Park and we and to some extent in Central Park as well. But you you miss that on the streets, you know, those big grid layouts and office blocks. There aren't really places to sort of I mean you can lean against the wall, but there aren't really places to sort of stop in the street.

SPEAKER_04 23:12

Yeah, the only other place, uh I can't remember the name of it, but it was a we talked about it on the previous episode, there was just a little square down towards Little Italy sort of area that I just came across people playing bongos and you know, just a nice little vibe going on. So there are little pockets, but you're quite right that it's not got the cafe culture, uh certainly never used to have that you you get in um Spain and Italy or even London these days.

SPEAKER_01 23:39

Certainly in the high-rise parts of town, there just aren't the street cafes other that really that that people can sit at and and do that. So you're missing that, I would say. Which is a pity because there's some prime people watching to be done.

SPEAKER_04 23:55

Well, but when you watch all the um the dramas and whatever, they they tend to sit on the stoop, don't they, or the steps in front of the the houses.

SPEAKER_01 24:05

Well, that was definitely the case in Brooklyn.

SPEAKER_04 24:07

I mean that was Yeah, exactly. It's just you don't have that sort of um maybe further north in Manhattan you do, but uh in the main bit you don't really have that sort of a building to be able to do it.

SPEAKER_01 24:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:18

Yeah, because I remember you're talking about the funny smells you were getting uh from people hanging around the houses in Brooklyn.

SPEAKER_01 24:25

Yeah, and that and you can see that's definitely a sort of big part of it, uh people chatting. You know, we stopped and chatted to a few people on uh on our strolls like a northerner, um, and they they returned uh the the time of day.

SPEAKER_04 24:39

They loved your accent.

SPEAKER_01 24:41

They thought I was posh. Did they? Yeah, amazing, isn't it? Has that happened before? Not very often. It's Unravel Travel, it's the New York trilogy. And then I I just wanted to mention a few of the gallery things. I mean I I've listed off already, I think, the ones we went to, but we we made a bit of a cock-up in that we wanted to go so we went to the main MOMA Museum of Modern Art. We decided to go on a rainy Sunday morning, and and there were quite a long queues to get in, even though we'd already bought a ticket, because obviously everyone else was thinking that was a good thing to do on a rainy Sunday morning, and it was rammed, the Marcel Duchamp retrospective was on, and I think it was particularly popular. So I wouldn't recommend doing any of those big museums and things on a weekend. I mean it was a bit of a crazy idea. And and the Saturday was the day we spent out in Queens, and I mentioned we went to the um Nagucchi, which was very good. But we also wanted to go to MoMA PS1, sorry, SP1, which is um which is a sort of more contemporary version of MoMA, and that's out in Queens. And we we sort of uh I mean I think it closes at like five o'clock, which seemed crazy really. We stopped and had had lunch somewhere and walked, and as we approached it, there was this queue trailing from a long way, and and this was like sort of three o'clock, and we sort of Petra joined the back of the queue and I went forward to investigate and and they said this guy was walking up and down saying, Look, you're not gonna get in, we're full, and we're running one out, one in, and there's unless you've got a ticket, there's absolutely no way you're getting in, you're wasting your time queuing, because we're we're closing at five, we don't let anybody in after four or something, so you know forget it. Uh that was quite a surprise, actually. You know, I was thinking they'd A, they'd be open for longer, and B, you'd just be able to rock up and get in. But again, it was a Saturday. Probably about it was nice weather actually, but um, but that also brought people out. So I think if you're planning, you either need to book tickets definitely for those sort of things in advance and make sure you check what the closing times are at the weekends. It seemed ridiculously early.

SPEAKER_04 27:03

Um very radical suggestion there, Malcolm. What's that? I'm surprised I haven't thought about that before. You know, checking what time something closes. I normally think I'm pretty on it, but you are, to be fair. Actually, it sounds to me like it was um a last minute, oh let's let's do this because something else had not taken us long, or you decided not to do it. Normally, if it was planned up front, you'd have had the tickets and everything.

SPEAKER_01 27:30

Yeah, well we had it was on our agenda and and actually we were supposed to go there first, but we we thought, oh the bus ride will be easier, we'll just go to the furthest one and then we'll work our way back to that one. And um it all it said, oh it's quieter than normal mu than the normal MoMA. You don't need to book, but it it had advised us to go in the morning so not to rock up just before closing time. So the very long leisurely Greek lunch that we had was probably misplaced. It should have been done afterwards. But you know, that's yeah.

SPEAKER_04 28:04

You can always go back and do these things, can't you?

SPEAKER_01 28:06

Yeah, we don't tend to go to a place twice though, so it might be.

SPEAKER_04 28:11

Yeah, sorry, I've I've I forgot. Yeah, usually you're not allowed back, are you?

SPEAKER_01 28:15

That's right, yeah. So it just becomes a habit not to go back to the bigger. But all the rest we booked tickets for, and we s you know yes, as bag checks, but we got into them very very easily. The Guggenheim, they had a Carol Borvet retrospective on, and the Guggenheim's excellent, that just that layout of it with that's that spiral thing, you know that, Dave? The the gallery is in a large spiral, it's going down at like two and a half degrees the whole way, so you walk around a big open atrium in the middle, and so you're not walking from room to room. There is a sort of conventional display space off to one side where you go in and out at levels, but this one it's just a really long, continuous walk through the art as you circle down to the bottom. Very good. Um, and they only do, I mean, they're you know very famous. They're the their standing collection was excellent. Um, and they only have the you know the sort of best artists, so generally, well quite often I think living artists, so um it was a very good exhibition. I'd highly recommend it. And the place is interesting, the architecture of it. It was designed by uh Frank Lloyd Wright, is that right? Frank Lloyd Wright, the famous American architect. No? Don't know. Okay. Um his famous American architect. I'm sure you're right. Um so that that was very good for the building itself as well as the uh as well as the art. Um and the Whitney was also had some excellent views. It was uh really interestingly laid out again, slightly funky sort of building, um, as well as the art being good.

SPEAKER_04 29:50

When I saw uh on your notes that you went to the Whitney Museum, I was thinking it's the Whitney Houston Museum. I'm not joking. I I read it again, ah right, okay.

SPEAKER_01 30:00

Or or Whitney as in West Oxfordshire. Yes, um I did think it was a slightly unusual name for it. Uh on our last day there, we had a sort of clear day in the diary. We were gonna do something depending on the weather, and in the end we just mooched around and did a bit of shopping, really, which seems a bit bit slack, but that's what we did.

SPEAKER_04 30:23

I I don't know actually. I've I've quite always quite enjoyed shopping in New York. I I used to go to I think it was Century 21 or something. You know, you used to be able to buy stuff an awful lot cheaper there, maybe not anymore. But not just that, as I said on the earlier episode, I got a Kenny doll, which just wasn't available uh anywhere else. So, you know, there is stuff that you can I think shopping is worthwhile in New York. I know it's not what you and I normally do, but type into Google where can I buy the sort of dolls I can't buy in Europe? Yes, definitely not.

SPEAKER_01 30:59

Well, not on your own Google account anyway. Yes, but yes, you're right, shopping. And we did it, we we popped into shops a few times. Some of them were just a bit too bougie and expensive, and some of them were not that dissimilar from what you get at home. But there was some things, you know, we did a bit of touristy shopping for sure. But we had thought about going out on the river. I mean you mentioned you took the ferry out to sort of Staten Island and things, but the weather wasn't really quite right for it, so we didn't go in the end. But I think we sort of missed out there. I think getting out on the river is probably a good thing to do, um, and seeing those sort of Statue of Liberty a bit closer, and you know, we didn't really do the thing.

SPEAKER_04 31:40

Yeah, we did it at night, uh so you know it's all lit up at night, which was quite a nice way of doing it. Yeah except all I remember the the windows on the boat were filthy, so you didn't get the best of views anyway. But yeah, it was a fun thing to do.

SPEAKER_01 31:53

Yeah. And other people have told me that the area out around New York, like a bit more upstate, um, is very nice. Um I think if we'd have been I mean, obviously we didn't cover the whole of New York, that would be a ridiculous thing to say. But we'd probably had about as much of that part of New York as we'd have wanted to see, I think. I think if we'd like to.

SPEAKER_04 32:16

And remind me how how many days were you?

SPEAKER_01 32:18

Oh, you're sorry you were just about to say uh six, seven days, something like that. Yeah, that's a fair old time. I think if we were there much longer, I would have wanted to hire a car and go off and explore a little bit further away. When we flew in, we came down the sort of North Atlantic coast, you know, from over Canada and um New Brunswick and stuff. And that Long Island and that the sound behind it looks very nice. That would have been an excellent place to explore, I think, on a on a warm day. And uh and then sort of Coney Island, that's a sort of iconic place, isn't it? Uh that would have been quite good. I think you can pretty much get there by by the underground as now already the subway.

SPEAKER_03 32:59

I've already forgotten the term terminology correctly.

SPEAKER_04 33:01

Just think of your favourite sandwich uh makers. Warbettons.

SPEAKER_01 33:07

Yeah, exactly. Get there by the Warby. So yeah, I think I would have probably quite enjoyed doing a bit of that, just getting out of you know, the just the the further surrounds of New York and just driving off the room.

SPEAKER_04 33:19

I've never done it, but you know, again, a lot of it these episodes I've been going back to what you see on TV. Uh it does look nice, doesn't it? The these little islands, as I said, the I said uh earlier on this episode, the the affair was set on one. Am I right, Martha's vineyard isn't a million miles? Whether you're able to get there, I don't know because it's sort of rich and famous, isn't it? But looks very nice.

SPEAKER_01 33:42

Yeah, I'm I'm sure there aren't many bus services there, but probably hiring a car you'd be alright. No, probably not that many bus services. But I think if you hired a car, that'd be fine. You're probably not gonna get there on an electric scooter. But yeah, I think just going off and doing a bit of those sort of things would have been quite interesting. You don't you can't fit everything in.

SPEAKER_04 34:01

No. So so it's an interesting question. You touched upon AI then, right? At the first of these three, this New York trilogy that we're doing. Uh, you mentioned that you used AI um to plan your trip. Now we've sort of like covered everything that you you've done out there, or at least most of it. Uh, how do you think the AI went? Uh would you use it again? Would you advise people to use it the same, differently? What are your thoughts?

SPEAKER_01 34:27

Yeah, I'd definitely use it again. I mean, I use it quite a lot already, so I'm familiar with how to use it, I think. You know, you need to use it.

SPEAKER_04 34:35

Half the battle, really, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 34:37

Yeah, how how to prompt it. Um, but even then it you know they have a mind of their own, don't they? You know, it comes it comes that comes with the definition. Yeah, that's right. And if they didn't, it wouldn't be. But you know, that they're like it's like trying to get a teenager to do anything.

SPEAKER_04 34:54

Yeah, you they get that's mostly mostly sort of there or thereabouts. I'm trying not to no, I've decided I'm not gonna go down that path but carry on.

SPEAKER_01 35:04

Good, thank you. And then they get they get distracted by something and and go off down a a rabbit hole. And and um you know, you you say to it, that's great, but could you just tweak this or revise this slightly? You know, I want a little bit more walking or a little bit more art. And then it then it just does all that, it just drops half the things that were important before and goes off down something else. So it requires some sort of careful massaging, really, to get the right thing. But once you've got the right thing, we sort of did a rough plan and then worked out what was going to be in each day, and then sort of locked each of those things down, put them in a document, and then I'd I'd give it back the document and say, Right, this is don't mess about this is the basic thing, but just plan out the detail of it, you know, give us our walking guides with pins for all the locations, you know, so we can easily find our way around uh and all that sort of stuff. I've done that very well.

SPEAKER_04 36:03

Yeah, I I can see value in it all, but specifically the the nitty-gritty, how do you get to here and all that sort of stuff. Yeah, you could just be handed that. Because quite often I I just do I I haven't used AI, but I've used a Google search, things to do in Bali, and you go, Oh, that looks good, that looks good, that looks good, that and then you suddenly realize that it's sort of like three hours drive between and therefore not that useful. Uh so if you can get something that sort of does the logistics side of it, that that's pretty pretty useful.

SPEAKER_01 36:36

And it was prompting some good ideas, like I say, some of the things that we just we wouldn't have found, I think, very easily on our own, or would not without an awful lot of searching. It and it came up with some good things and and and a c you know a couple of useless things as well. But that's what it's like, isn't it? I mean that that's it would have been like that if we'd have found things online anyway.

SPEAKER_04 36:55

You say they're useless, but uh you know they're useless because that's probably not your thing uh to somebody else, because I presume the way it works is it just looks at what's popular, what's been talked about a lot, uh to somebody else that may have been a highlight. Yeah, that's as with everything, it's sort of you know, take it as a guide and then you make the final decision.

SPEAKER_01 37:17

Yeah, absolutely. And I, you know, I looked into everything it had suggested myself separately. Um, but it it was certainly a shortcut to the the planning process that we'd have had to do otherwise to get everything we wanted to see fitted in for sure, and I'll definitely use it again like that.

SPEAKER_04 37:34

I was gonna say it'll be uh interesting to hear how it works again, and uh, you know, maybe we can have a I don't know whether we'd have enough info for uh an episode, but we could have a feature on an episode sort of like of uh you know more detail about how best to use AI for planning a trip.

SPEAKER_01 37:53

Yeah, and I was just gonna say often I go to many of the same places I've been to before, but it would be interesting, but then you sort of fall back into doing the same things you've done when I say we don't go to places twice. I know, I was wondering, oh, oh, I might uh who which version of Malcolm am I speaking to now? Well, I was meaning so when we when I was out in Czech last time, I know Czech always there. Yeah, but uh but we I had Ollie and um and Joe and um Isaac and I said oh I'll take you to show you round Znoimo, which is a local town, it's very pretty, and I took them to all the things that I knew were there because I've been to that town quite a few times and and but actually I I reckon if I'd have probably asked AI to come up with a trip, it might have popped a couple of things in that I haven't done before. That's what I was meaning. It just refreshes maybe the um the thinking process.

SPEAKER_04 38:44

That that's a watch this space. We might have some more info for you on that. In fact, I I'm probably gonna give it a go as well.

SPEAKER_01 38:51

Yeah, I think it's worth doing it uh properly, you know, setting up a proper search, telling it exactly what you want rather than just you know, because you get that sort of AI search results support on Google, don't you, anyway? Now it comes up with that stuff. But but that I think, you know, sitting down and writing a proper, careful prompt explaining what you want out of the trip, how long you've got, do you want to walk, do you want you know, those sorts of things, and then it'll come up with something a bit better rather than just the surface results that you get normally, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_04 39:24

Oh well thank you for that. Very interesting stuff and some uh good recommendations there. So I guess it's just time to say thank you, everybody, and uh you can hear us on the next episode.

SPEAKER_01 39:34

Yeah, have a good day, y'all. Very good.

SPEAKER_04 39:39

Bye back.

SPEAKER_01 39:40

Cheers.