The Win Column Podcast
The Win Column Podcast is the official Calgary Flames outlet of The Win Column (thewincolumn.ca).
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The Win Column Podcast
Making Sense of The Calgary Flames Mantra
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In this episode of The Win Column Podcast, Josh, Alex, and Jashan get into the optics surrounding the Calgary Flames and the comments their player are making, exactly what it is about this team that can't seem to stick to a plan, and how Craig Conroy is doing as best as he can to shape the team into a perennial Cup contender as the team rebuilds.
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I think the Flames and specifically Conray has done everything he can to put them in a very, very good spot for the future. And now you just kind of need a couple of lottery balls to bounce your way. Or like you said, maybe the guy you pick fifth is turns out to be the best player in the draft. I mean, they did that a couple of years ago when they took a Chuck sixth, which I think everyone now could say you could probably argue he's better than Matthews right now. Like so that's that's the kind of situation that you're hoping for. Welcome back everyone to another episode of the Wind Column Calgary Flames podcast. Our first post-tra-trade deadline episode for a couple weeks here. A lot has happened since then. The Flames have seemingly gone on their biggest win streak of the entire season, just like we all predicted would happen, and then followed that up by getting absolutely crushed in their last two games to Vegas and Colorado. Sandwiched in between there, obviously, was Blake Coleman's now infamous mantra comments. Um I'll let you guys uh give your thoughts on that, but it definitely stirred up quite a buzz around the fan base here. And it's been interesting to see right after those comments, the flames have now dropped back-to-back shellac.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I won't go out and say that the players aren't gonna ever say they want to lose or whatever. And I I will never discredit them or get mad at them for going out there and doing their best, right? Like they're professionals, they're gonna, they're clearly not the Canucks, where the Canucks, I just think like, oh, they're they're just not trying anymore. Like it's actually insane uh given they beat Colorado the other night. But I don't know, it's come to a point where it was like it was like with the Anderson thing last year where he called the fans losers and now you got Coleman coming out. It's like at some point I think you kind of gotta read the room, and it's like this is the direction the team's going in. They very clearly pick that direction at the deadline. I don't know, it left a bad taste in a lot of people's mouth. Like I get it, he's just trying to have fun and and whatnot. But yeah, I I don't think it left the best of taste in a lot of fans' mouths when you hear that, and you know, it's the betterment of the future of the team. Like I get he's not gonna be around. Like this is probably his last. How many games will they have left? Six, five, six, seven, eight games. It's probably gonna be the last few he's playing as a flame, so I kind of understand, but at the same time, yeah, not the uh didn't leave the best taste in all from else, I guess, with that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it was I think it's definitely stirred up quite a buzz with Team Tank. Like, I think the thing with Team Tank is like we all joke about it and all that, but like at the end of the day, we all know that the the team players aren't actually gonna be throwing games. Like that's I mean, I guess 99% of us know there's probably a couple green MMs out there who truly believe Blake Coleman should be putting the puck in his own net. But yeah, I think the comments, the reason I I was kind of annoyed by the comments, and it's just kind of it's just a weird thing to say to kind of essentially say your mantra is to piss off your own team's fans. It's just like a weird comment, especially when it's like, like, come on, man, you've when you said that they were like 29-30th in the league, you've been bottom five the entire season, you haven't made the playoffs in like three years. Like, I like it's just such an off-base comment to make. It's like it's not like the flames have been the signal of success recently. It's like they've been kind of a laughing stock for three years now. So to come out and say essentially your goal is to win a bunch of meaningless games to piss off Team Tank, it's just the same thing with Anderson's comments last year about how, you know, oh, Team Tank are fake fans. Like, if the Flames have had a ton of success in the past and all of a sudden they lose a couple games and Team Tank's like, oh, we suck, we need a tank, like then I would get being like, Yeah, well, I mean, why are you so mad? But like this team hasn't really done anything of significance in in four years now. And I mean, going back further, it's like the last two decades have been like outside of a couple seasons have been an absolute disaster. So it's just a funny comment. I feel like 100% I get the players are not gonna be throwing games. Like, obviously, I never expect that. I never expect Coleman or any of those guys to not try. But like, do you really have to throw half the fan base under the bus and say, you know, oh yeah, we're gonna go out there and try to piss them off? Like, we're gonna try to win these meaningless games to try to do that, especially for a guy like Coleman, who's like, yeah, like you said, he's probably not even gonna be here in like six months. Like he's gonna be on greener pastures playing for you know, Tampa or Dallas or something, like a contending team while we're all stuck here with whatever draft pick we end up with. So yeah, for that reason, it's just kind of annoying to to throw the fans under the bus like that when it's I think any fan is has the full right to be upset with how this team has looked in the past four years and so. And it's not like Coleman or Anderson or these guys making comments have ever really achieved anything in Calgary. Like it's what they won one playoff round, like a few playoff games every couple years. Like, so it's just an annoying comment to have, and especially from a guy who hasn't really done much in Calgary, like 21-22, Coleman was here, but I mean that was Goodroka Chuck here. It's not like Coleman was the one carrying them, and other than that, like they've missed the playoffs now for four straight years. So yeah, just an annoying comment and pretty justified, pretty funny that after right after those comments now, they've been outscored, what, 15 to 6 and been absolutely destroyed two back-to-back games. So I'm curious what what their mantra was in the last two games, if they've kind of changed that, or you know, what their mantra was in October and November when they won five of 21 games, like when the games actually mattered, like maybe you should have been trying to win games then, but yeah, anyways, just just an annoying comment. But at the end of the day, it's it is what it is, and you know, we all know that team tank, we don't take ourselves too seriously.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, something pretty funny about the Flames paying Nazum Kadri to score two goals against them the other night.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. It would it would have made more sense if Coleman just came out and kind of said, Yeah, we're gonna we're obviously each game, we're gonna be playing our hardest, we're gonna be playing our ball. Right? But saying that we're like alienating half of your fan base, it makes no sense, right? Um because obviously, like you both said, no one's expecting to throw games, right? No one's expecting them to put the fuck in their own net, no one's expecting them to play their worst, right? So it would have made more sense if Coleman just kind of said, We're gonna go out there, we're gonna give it our best, we're gonna give it our all, and we're gonna give us our best chance to succeed, because that is what we all expect of them, right? It's just we all have the mindset of we would rather have a higher pick, right? But saying that, oh, you want to upset half your fan base just is not probably not the best choice of words there.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. Yeah, like I get where he's coming from. Like, yeah, if I was if I was an intro player in a locker room and I just saw these comments about how all my fans wanted me to lose and were pissed off when I scored a goal, like, yeah, I'd be kind of annoyed too. But like, I just feel like, like you said, he probably should have just worded it differently. Like, say, like, yeah, obviously we're we're professionals here, you know, it doesn't matter where we are in the standings, we're gonna try to win every night. You don't really have to throw fans under the under the bus, especially when it's fan base of a team that, you know, has been a pretty big laughing stock in in recent years. So I think at some point the the players should kind of understand the frustration from the fans. Like same with Anderson last year, like calling them fake fans. It's like, I mean, uh you should probably understand that they're not too pleased that this team has been the like sim symbolism of mediocrity for like two decades. Like, so yeah, it's annoying to have fans calling you out when you're literally scoring goals, but it's also should be understood that fans aren't gonna be too happy when you've made the playoffs like three times in like the last 10 years or whatever.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Yeah, it is what it is. And we got what last night was game 75, so we got seven games left. Yeah. Or 76, whatever it was. So, like I said before, like I I there's no way I think Coleman's on the opening day roster next year. I think we talked about it the last time we spoke. It's like they have so many forwards under contract for next year, and that doesn't even include somebody like Lomberg, who they're probably gonna bring back, and it doesn't include guys that you know that are in the minors that are probably gonna try and push for for spots. So it's for him, it's like he's not gonna be here. So I just it's it is what it is. I think like I we said, like I don't they're not gonna throw games. Like this isn't the Canucks where they're throwing out half an AHL roster and it looks like half they're like Peterson doesn't even look like he cares at this point. They're crying, like they're trying, you know. It's like I think that's the one thing I can give this team a lot of credit for, you know, like this year, and I can even give Haska some credit. It's there hasn't been a lot of games this year where they've just gotten absolutely killed. Like maybe earlier in the year when they went on that run where they had lost like nine in a row to open up the year. Like, yeah, there are a few games there where they got pummeled, but I think since then they kind of like rained in a little bit. And like it maybe outside of that Colorado game on on uh on Monday night, you know, they haven't really gotten destroyed at points this year. It's they've kept every game close. Like that homestand was pretty clear of it. Like, how many of those games at the overtime, like that they lost? Three or four of them, you know. They did um, you know, they've done a good job of keeping games close and keeping it competitive. And that also helps when you have all these younger guys that have come up and like like Mave Griddens look great, you know. I I think you know, maybe we gotta pull in the reins on him a little bit. Like we've seen a lot of people throwing out Kucharov comparisons, but like he's come up, he's looked really good. Berstevich has look really good, you know, Perek's looked a lot better since you know coming back from that injury. So yeah, they're they're having these guys that are coming up and that are playing their hearts out because they want to win roster spots for next year, right? Like, there's no guarantee that Perek even makes a team next year with the way that they've kind of deployed him. So, you know, I give those guys credit, and you gotta even you gotta credit even those guys that they brought in at the deadline. Like Ryan Strome, Oli Matta, like somehow have been both really good. Like, I think Matta's played at like a like a 65-point pace since getting here, and I think Strom's around the same. Well, they've they've played well, you know, again, you gotta credit to them. Who knows where Ryan Strome is next year? Like, I think he's kind of playing for a contract for next year, and and Matta's got a couple years where he's kind of bounced around. It's been fun to watch. You know, obviously, I think we're more on the side at this point, just lose because we're putting ourselves in a position where we're not in the greatest spot, you know, like Chicago like Vancouver's locked up last place now, like as of last night, and then Chicago keeps losing. So, you know, they're only a few points back. I want to save St. Louis. So they're they're they're right there for that, you know, top three, hopefully. But we'll see. Speaking, I guess, of the the draft, so they currently sit third last in in the league, and we know who the top two are gonna be. We know it's gonna be McKenna Stenberg, unless maybe it's not McKenna Stenberg, you know, but we've seen some teams go off the board in recent years, you know, Demodov dropped the five a few years ago. I don't really think there were any crazy ones last year, you know, Frondel, Misa, Schaefer, top three. So if the Flames drop out of this top two, if they don't win a lottery or they don't finish second last, who are we targeting? Who is this the player at either three, four, five, or six that I think that that we would want the flames to target?
SPEAKER_01Well, I mean, I think one one player that kind of stands out is Eagle Bjork in Sweden. I mean, he had a pretty good world junior, a center as well. He would kind of he's kind of fallen down draft rankings, I feel like a little bit. I feel like he was higher ranked uh back in September. But I think he would be a really good pick if you know the Flames do fall out of that uh one, two spot and end up in like four or five.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think he definitely a guy that jumps out. I think there's I keep going back and forth because I think it's tough because for a for the longest time, Keaton Verhoff seemed like the surefire third best player in the draft. Like he was the guy, like if you're third, it doesn't matter what position you need, you're taking him because he's just that far ahead of everyone. Where I feel like now the gaps close quite considerably where you're seeing a bunch of rankings where Verhoff isn't even in the top three anymore, and a lot of people have other defensemen ahead of him. So I feel like that's made the Flames decision potentially a lot a lot more difficult if they are in the third slot. Because I don't think there's any surefire like this is the third best player in the draft this year. And it's also tough because I mean it just figures that the year the Flames finally bought him out for the first time in 10 years, like it's such a weak center class. Like you look at last year where there was you know Haggins, Desornet, Misa, like so many centers at the top where like Boston was able to front end.
SPEAKER_03He's playing down the middle.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So like Boston was able to get a center like Haggins at seven, whereas this year it's like there's not really any high-end centers. Like there's a like you said, Bjork is there. There's Caleb Maholtra, who I think has a lot of question marks. Like Tynan Lawrence has fallen off quite considerably. So it's it's gonna be interesting to see what the flames do depending where they land, because there's just there's no obvious pick, there's no high-end centers, and there's no obvious third best player in the draft. I think Bjork for me is definitely a guy I would 100% be looking at. I think you need a game changer at forward. And if you miss McKennan Stemburg, it's gonna suck. But I think he probably gives you the best chance of landing that type of player if you don't get in the top two. Although obviously there's huge risk there. Like he's a guy who has a lot of question marks with his size. Will he actually be a center at the next level? How is his game gonna translate? Like, that's why he's fallen down a lot of draft boards. Like back in the summer, he was considered like one-two with Gavin McKenna and he's kind of slipped off. So I think if you're the flames, you kind of got to decide do we make the safe pick and just take a defenseman? Like Carson Carles to me is like a perfect fit. Left shot defenseman plays in the Western Hockey League. Like he would be potentially if things work out, it's gonna be next year. Because you look at the draft cost next year, it is figures like it is loaded with centers. Like there's gonna be four, five, six really, really good centers probably in the top 10. So if if you're confident that next year you're gonna be very bad again, which to me, I have a good feeling this team is gonna be bottom 10 for sure, probably bottom five, then you're probably leaning more towards a guy like Carrolls and say, okay, we'll get our big center next year. Let's just go with the perfect fit on the left side of the defense and the best defenseman that we can, and then figure out center next year. So I think whether it's Carrolls or Bjork, or I won't be disappointed. I think just please don't take Caleb Mahoultra. That's the one guy I'm like, I do not want him. I just think he's more of like a two C projection type of guy. Like, I feel like he's not the one C that they need. And I feel like taking him would be more so just drafting for position because they need a center versus taking the best player. So yeah, it's it's gonna be interesting to see because like I mean, like we said, right now with the way the lottery works and the standings, they could realistically be picking first overall in June, or they could be picking like seventh, eighth right now, like the way the standings are. It's just it's so much up in the air. We're we'll have better clarity in a week or so, but for now, it's just feels like yeah, Karel Zerburg for me would be the guy.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, obviously, if if the season were to end today, the lowest they'd be able to pick is five. So obviously you hope to be in that top three, but at this point, like if you slide from three to five, it probably doesn't change much, right? Because you have McKenna Stenberg, who are probably gonna go one-two, and then you have that glut of defenseman, but you're looking at Verhoff, Carls, and probably Albert Smith's was the other one. And then you have that kind of second echelon of fours where you got Bjork, you got Mahotra, you had a couple like Belche, Belchez, who I'm not the biggest fan of. You're probably it probably doesn't matter too much if you slide from three to five, right? It's it doesn't probably change a lot of their their game plan. Like they'll probably have a guy at three, and I imagine whoever they want at three might be available at five. So obviously, what's hoped that they can either win a lottery or slide into second last by the end of the year, you know. Like there's it's only a two-point gap between them and Chicago right now. So you gotta hope maybe they can slide back. This road trip will probably help them lose a few more. But yeah, I think I'm totally on board with, you know, you may I think if you really want the forward, you go with Vegle Bjork. I've seen a few Brain and Point comparisons. Obviously, that's a high bar to set because Brayden Point scored 50 at the NHL level. And I don't necessarily know if I expect Vegle Bjork to do that, but they are kind of that same kind of, you know, they're quick, smaller guys at right-handed shots. Point became a pretty damn good one C on a Stanley Cup winning team. Again, not saying Bjork's gonna be that guy, but I also kind of love the idea of a Carson Carls because that would be kind of the perfect pair for my partner for Perek. You know, they don't really have a left-handed shot in their system that, you know, projects to be really, really solid. Really have much on the left. They got a lot on the right, obviously with Perak, Brustavic, and Mews, um, but they don't have a ton on the left. So maybe taking a guy like Carson Carls, if you don't land a McKenna or a Stenberg, that might honestly be the best option. And you're probably hoping you're gonna be as poor of a team next year. You know, I don't see this roster being much better next season than they are now. Like they're they're gonna walk in with relatively the same defense, they're gonna walk in with relatively the same forward group. And do you expect Devin Cooley to be a 920 again? Probably not. But maybe there's a little bit of, you know, maybe there's a little bit of regression. Cooley gets a little bit worse, Wolf has a better year. I don't really know what's gonna happen with it. But I mean, you look at their forward group, and I don't really think they're signing anyone big, given there's really no one, no one free agency to sign. And if there is somebody to sign in free agency, no one's signing Calgary, at least not this year. So I think you might have to just gamble. You take the whoever they think is best player available. If they get three and Carson Carls is their third best prospect, take them. And then we'll worry about the rest later. That Vegas pick, if they lose in the first round, guys, like we're looking at that pick being 18th overall. Is a Matias Preston there at uh 18th or 19th? Do you have to do you end up taking one of the Ruck twins and then trading up to get the other? There's options. You know, none of them I think are gonna be one C guys, but they've got options. But I think at this point, Bjork or Carls to me is your I think is your pick, depending on where you're at. Obviously, the hope is win a lottery, get McKenna or Stenberg, but at this point, there's no guarantees of anything.
SPEAKER_02So yeah, I think the Vegas pick is a good thing to mention too, because if you do go defenseman with your pick, like you're you can then grab a still a pretty good forward with Vegas' pick. That's assuming they don't go on a playoff run, which I watching them this year, I don't think they will.
SPEAKER_03Well, you just gotta hope that Anaheim wins the division, because I can't see Anaheim beating Vegas in a playoff series.
SPEAKER_02No, yeah.
SPEAKER_03I think you're you bet on Edmonton beating them, which God lets like for the first time ever, I'm gonna be cheering for Edmonton if they're playing Vegas. Yeah. Like I don't, I can't, I just I don't know. I don't see a scenario in which Anaheim beats them. I think I think Edmonton would wipe the floor with them. I can't see the same about Anaheim.
SPEAKER_02Edmonton's heating up too. They won five in a row, and like they always do, they start to put it together, and assuming Dry Siddle's back healthy, or at least at like 75%, even flo I think Edmonton just dog walks Vegas because Vegas has just been horrendous this year for the most part. And at this point, it looks like we had we had a slight slight dream of Vegas missing the playoffs, but at this point, like you know, San Jose's five back of them.
SPEAKER_03It's there's still there's still a chance. Vegas would have to lose L. San Jose's five.
SPEAKER_01San Jose two games in hand or something. So I mean there's a chance.
SPEAKER_03LA is also five back with a game in hand. So yeah. So there's obviously a lot would have to go right. A lot would have to go right for Vegas to miss, but there's there's a chance, but unfortunately, they're getting that new coach bump right now. Yeah, it's that came. Given I didn't really think Vegas looked that great last night either, even though they continue to get it. No, they did not.
SPEAKER_02I was like, ugh. They let the flames in that game for way too long.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, like their goal, their goaltending is not good. And yeah, that's they're and I still worry that they'll kill Anaheim. So come on, Anaheim, when your game's down the stretch.
SPEAKER_01Let's go. Because just imagine that Edmonton team going up against Vegas in a seven game series with that goaltending and with Edmonton's offense, especially when you have dry healthy dry saddle. Dry settle back.
SPEAKER_03Like Edmonton's heating up without dry saddle.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so they get him back, they'll be fine. Yeah. There's no I don't know. When you look at this, I don't believe Vegas beats Edmonton at all. It would that would be a quick series.
SPEAKER_03Well, they g Edmonton killed them last year, and I would argue Vegas' team last year was better than their team this year. Yeah. I don't even have to argue, it's just a fact.
SPEAKER_01I mean, you're they're missing the change though now, though, right? You're missing a future Hall of Famer. Your goaltending is a good one.
SPEAKER_03Then you replace him with Anderson who hasn't been great.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And your goaltending is not good at all, right? Yeah, Vegas could easily be a round-win exit. And honestly, I feel that the Vegas pick for me is almost more interesting than the flame zone first round pick. Just because it's like you could get uh pressed in there, you could get one of the Rupp twins. And I feel like I I don't know, I almost feel that it's more interesting to see where that pick ends up and where the flames pick ends up.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, there's a wide range of where it could be and what players you could get at that point. Like that's why I think you know, I start to lean to Fensman with the flames pick, because I think you there you're gonna be able to get it still a very good forward with Vegas' pick. Yeah, like you said, it's not gonna be a top line guy, but like the the amount of forwards in this class that are are gonna be available in that like 10 to 20 range, there's some really good players there. So I think that that's a huge win for the Flames that Vegas has been as bad as they have been this year. Because for for a while there it looked like they were gonna be you know top 30.
SPEAKER_03That was gonna be 32nd. Yeah, like well, and then you look at the you look at the like uh what's it called? The what's the word I'm looking for? The conditions on the pick that they got for Anderson or that they yeah, that they got for Anderson. It's like, oh, Vegas wins the cup this year, then that second becomes a first. Like that's kind of where Vegas was hoping to be is a cup contender, is a cup winner, right? They're sitting 19th in the NHO right now, so there's like a you know, that pick can end up being really damn good, you know. We'll see what happens, but yeah, there's there's definitely guys there. And you know, is there even a scenario where you you package that pick with something else and maybe even move up in the draft, depending on if there's somebody you really want? I don't know. But what I will say, and I've said it before, I think when you've looked at what Conroy has done over the past couple years since taking over the Reigns as GM, I would be very okay with him just making all the picks because he's shown that he's been able to find guys, whether it was a grid in at 28th who is looking like a really good pick, went back last year. You know, the basha pick looks a little rougher now, considering you know, like someone like Cole Hudson went right after him. But like he's been able to find guys, you know, in later rounds and that could be potential like NHL, not even just players, but impact players, right? I'm okay with him just taking all the shots. Like, don't even bother trading the picks unless again there's someone you really, really want. Like if you're able to snag, you know, one of the Ruck twins and then you want the other one, yeah, you have the ammunition to go out and make that trade to move up and grab that player. So, but like I said, I think with the way he's drafted, I'm just like, yeah, just make all the picks, given if you guys watch the The most recent episode of the chase, it doesn't really seem like they're gonna be, at least what they were talking about, it doesn't seem like those seconds they got from Utah, they're gonna be using all of them. Seems like they might be trying to trade those for NHL players, which um I really hope you're moving out other forwards on your roster because you have too many already. It's a bit of a worry.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I think you always gotta take take a risk when you're trading for those types of like young outcast players. Like there's a reason those teams are trading these guys, even though they're still in their early 20s and have potential. It's because they haven't shown that potential. It's I look at a guy like Kirby Doc in Montreal, who was exactly that type of case, a third overall pick, I think he was. He just, you know, he dealed with injuries, never really reached his full potential in in uh Chicago. Montreal paid a pretty big price for him, and he's shown flashes, but he's done the same thing he did in Chicago where he's always injured, he just can't find consistency. And it's like it's you gotta be careful when you trade for those type of players, because I think it's it's there's a reason they're available on the trade market, even though they have such a high pedigree. So yeah, if there's a guy who comes up like a Shane Wright or something, and that's the type of guy, like, yeah, I would take a gamble on him. I don't know if I think Seattle would probably want more than what the Flames would be willing to give up. Yeah, like you said, that if it comes down to it and Conway doesn't see a good deal out there, I would be more than fine just making four second-round picks, and then that gives you ammo down the line to trade those prospects for players when you want to. You don't have to use them right now. Like I think you look at this the draft order right now, they'd be picking 35th in the second, 36, and then first and 54th. So that's you're almost picking six times in the top 50 of the draft. So that's that's a ton of ammunition. That's those six players are probably a better prospect pool alone than like 10 teams having it in their entire prospect pool. Like just those.
SPEAKER_03Assuming they pick the correct players. Yeah, exactly. So hopefully it's not a Maseo Phillips again or you know, whatever.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, like you said, like I do have full confidence in Connery to make the smart picks. He just time and time again, it seems like everyone's sitting around waiting for the flames to pick. It's like, oh, I hope they take this guy, I hope they take this guy, and they always do. So I think that's definitely given us a lot of confidence, and hopefully that continues. I don't see why it wouldn't, but I think yeah, this draft has the potential to completely change the future of the the organization, like not just past the flames pick, but all these other picks. Because they also have Vancouver's third, so they're also picking in the third 65th and 67th.
SPEAKER_03So very free. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Right now they're picking the first pick in the third and their own the third pick in the third. So that now we're talking about. That was Zadarov, I think.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Sure. Why not? Yeah. So that pick now is like at the time, people were kind of like, oh, I don't know about that return for Zadarov.
SPEAKER_03Third and the fifth.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, almost a second round pick at this point because of Vancouver. And I mean, I think that's a good return for a guy like Zadarov for sure. So yeah, it's it's gonna be interesting to see kind of what they plan to do with their picks if they look to trade them. Like, like you said, they have so many forwards right now. I feel like if you're gonna be doing that and bringing in some other talents, then you're gonna have to trade someone. Like Blake Coleman is an obvious one. Like, what's Morgan Frost's future? I know he's been pretty good for them the last couple of weeks, but like is he a guy you see here long term, like Joel Faraby, another guy like Adam Klappka? Yeah, and then you have those fringe guys too.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, there's and you know what, like they're never gonna move off of him, but like Sharon Govich, like you've got to at least like be like, hey, we're willing to do this to get like is this what's he in? Is he year he's in year two of this? No, this is year one of this deal. This is year one, yeah. Holy shit.
SPEAKER_02So four more years after this.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, they're not getting yeah, they're not getting out of that deal. Because you gotta remember and and there's no way they're retaining for four years on this player.
SPEAKER_01You gotta remember in the offseason, what the Anderson and Markström retention slots come off the books. Yeah. So now you have Naz for another. You free up two more on top of the uh codry retention. So I mean you have that flexibility to maybe make a Coleman trade later and retaining on him.
SPEAKER_03They're not gonna retain on Naz for three years and Sharon Govich for four.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, no shot. Sharon Govich seems like a guy who they're just gonna ride it out, like at this point. Maybe like in the final couple years, buy him up. They look they look to dump him, but it's yeah, he's he's gonna be 28 already this summer. By the time next season starts, he's still got four more years on his contract, and he's already 28, and he's just looks awful most nights. Like he's what sitting on funny.
SPEAKER_03Like I remember when when they announced that contract, like all of us were like, Oh, I think that's Conroy's first big miss. And it's you know what? And like said it at the time, and I've said it to you guys a bunch, like, totally understand why Conroy signed that deal. It was the first guy he traded for when he became GM. He scored 31 goals in the first year he had him. He was kind of gatekeeping him a little bit. He's like, This is my guy, like I did this, and then like I kind of rehabilitated him. So like I understand why he gave out the contract he did, you know. Like, I I like I I totally understand it. But when you look at it from like uh, you know, like you look back on it, it's like, oh yeah, that was a bad contract to give out, considering like the year prior, he was being scratched in New Jersey, like during the playoffs. And then you looked at his year last year, and I think for like 85% of it, he was brutal. And then this year, I don't know, he's been he's just kind of existed, you know. Given I don't really care if the guys perform well or not. It's like I just I'm like, whatever. Like he's just kind of been there. So it was the first, probably the one really bad thing that Conroy's kind of done in his this is now his what third year's GM. Like it was definitely the the first like yikes move that he made. And thankfully, everything else has been really good for the most part, you know. But yeah, that was like the one where it's like, oh, wish we could have a redo on that one.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's the type of one where it's like probably would have been better off waiting to see how he falls that breakout season with because he was a guy who I thought they would have might have flipped, yeah, exactly. Like you probably've been smart, like really.
SPEAKER_03It was 3.1 million. He had just scored 30 goals. Like, you're telling me somebody wouldn't have given up like a first for that player.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, he's only 25 years old at the time.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. It's it's tough. But like again, like it's if that's the one bad thing Conroy's done, it could be a lot worse. You know, and like 100%. Still remember like when we were all we're we're all watching that 2024 draft, and I remember like we're all in our chat going, Oh, I hope they take this player, and then it was like, Oh my god, they got him. It's like Conroy. It was like, I remember it was like we were all saying like Henry Mews, Henry Muse took him. And then I think the next pick it was Misa. Like, oh my god, oh my, he took this guy, this guy, this guy. I remember when they got Basha, we were all pumped. I remember, you know, given when they took Griddon, we were all kind of like, ah, really, but he's turned out to be really good. Um, yeah. Speaking, I guess, of the players that they've taken and the guys that they have. New rank opens in just over a year's time. How long do we anticipate before the flames are ultra competitive again? Like we're we're thinking back to 18, 19 levels of competitiveness, 21, 22 years. How long do we think before they're they're back competing and hopefully it's on a consistent basis?
SPEAKER_01It'll be some time. In my opinion, it's gonna be like three to four years. Because it's it's not this r this rebuild isn't a rebuild where one draft is gonna completely change your franchise because you could get a franchise altering player like McKenna or like in the pre-next year's draft or whatever. To be consistent at that 1890 level or 21-22 level, you are going to need like three, four years to be able to get these franchise players and then also build around them and then be able to consistently you know be a playoff team, be a contender, win your division. It's gonna, it's it's not something that it's gonna happen soon. Like the the rink will probably open and we will be still in the midst of this rebuild.
SPEAKER_03Which is fine. Just hope we have some competitive, not competitive, sp special players on the roster by then.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think it's it's such a hard thing to predict because really a lot of it comes down to luck. Like if if you win the lottery this year and get McKenna, and you win the lottery next year and you get DuPont or Alexis Joseph, then it's like your timeline is now bumped up considerably. Then, you know, if they drop to five this year and next year they're a little better than expected and they pick seventh, then it's like this might be a bit of a long rebuild longer than we expected. Yeah, yeah. You're kind of in a spot where it's like we have good players, we're missing enough of those good players where it's like, so I think it's so hard to predict because they do have a really good starting base. Like they've got a lot of good NHL young talent, like Wolf and Perek and Coronado and Ball, like all these guys, they've got a good base. Gridden, yeah, grid and two, and they've got a good prospect pool, obviously, with guys like Regni and Potter and all those guys. And but you're missing those high-end elite forwards, and those are obviously the hardest players to get, and the only way to really get them for a market like Calgary, because you're not you're not gonna be signing those guys a free agency realistically, and you know, sometimes they come available through trade, but that's very, very rare. Like when a guy like Jack Eichel comes up, that's once every what decade, once every few years. So it's through the draft. And the draft is because of the way the NHL draft lottery works, it's it's luck. Like you just need to luck out with a couple lottery balls. I look at the Red Wings a lot and and their rebuild, and they bottomed out quite a bit, and they didn't get a single top two pick in that whole time. They didn't get a first overall pick, and that's that's kind of screwed them. Like they're still now struggling to be a consistent playoff team because despite they the fact that they bottomed out and were arguably the worst team in the league for multiple years, the lottery balls just didn't drop the way they wanted them to. They got bumped back multiple picks and they didn't get the type of players they needed, and now they're kind of just in no man's land of like a team that's too good to be bad, but not good enough to be a consistent playoff team. So I think the Flames are on the right track, but at the end of the day, it's gonna come down to luck, I think. If if you can get it some good lottery draws either this year or next year, or hopefully both, the outlook looks pretty good. If if not, then they might be in a little bit of trouble.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, like sometimes you get lucky where you finish last, you drop to four, and you still get the best player in the draft. I'm thinking exactly 2017, Colorado's like the worst team we've ever seen. They drop to four and they get Kale McCarr. You even it's funny that you mentioned the Red Wings because that 29, that 19-20 year where they they were like hilariously bad. The Red Wings. They were really, really bad. League gets shut down for COVID. They do that weird lottery where like nobody wins a lottery. Detroit slips to four, and then they do that weird lottery where the Rangers end up winning, and then they end up getting Lucas Raymond, which if you go back and look at that draft, he's probably second best player out of that draft, probably behind Tim Stutzla, maybe third if considering Sanderson's still there too. Like sometimes you get lucky and you get the best player regardless. But yeah, like it's you look at kind of Detroit, like if that year that they got Cider, if they win, they get Jack Hughes. Like, yeah, Cider's amazing, but how different is things if they have that bona fide one C and Qs? Like I get Larkin's very good, but I don't know if he's like that super top echelon of one C's in the league. But yeah, like they they're gonna need some luck here. And like I said, maybe they maybe they luck out and they get a guy at five or six ends up being really damn good. It's not the way you really want to go about it, but yeah, if they can win a lottery this year, if they can win a lottery next year, you walk into that new rank, maybe you're still not great, maybe you win another, maybe you get another high pick, then you're probably on your way to okay, we can probably start doing things now. And I do think this new rank is really gonna help with trying to pursue guys to come over. I I don't know if living in Calgary is gonna be someone's favorite thing in the world, but I definitely think this new rank with everything that it has going for them, it might be able to persuade guys to want to play here or in Calgary, I shouldn't say, here. Uh who knows? That that might be something. I'm that's why I'm like super excited to see like when this rink opens, and hopefully those first few years they have some really exciting young guys that look like they're gonna be able to like change a franchise, you know, and be franchise quarterstones. Like if like Per X development goes well, if Wolf continues to be really good, maybe Gridden ends up being a Kutarov just to put out there for fun. Maybe Wittenbach's as good as he's been at college level. Maybe Reschny is even better than we think he is. Obviously, that's a lot of things that have to go right, but maybe with this new rank and maybe if these younger guys can really come into their own, you might be able to like, hey, uh I don't know, who's a UFA in a few years? Hey, Connor McDavid, want to play in Calgary? No, I'm just kidding. Or like, even like, I don't know, is there a scenario in which I could somehow lure McCarr here? I don't know. Like in a couple years, nuts to think about now. But if this new rink opens and like they've got like fantasy world McKenna DuPont, like just in some stupid reality, are you able to lure a player like him over and be, hey, look what we have, look what we have coming. No, I'm not saying it's gonna happen. Obviously, I don't think I don't uh as much as it would be great for McCart to come here, I don't think it's gonna happen. Why would he leave Colorado at this point? I think McKinnon literally might kill him if he does that. But I don't know, it's it's definitely something to be looking forward to, and maybe it's that sense of optimism that we've needed. But yeah, we're definitely, I think, looking at minimum three to four years before we're even talking about playoffs, right? It took Montreal, like they really started their rebuild in 2022. Took them three years to get the playoffs, and then now this year they're looking like really great. They're they're 98 points today. You know, would it shock you if they won the East next year? It wouldn't shock me, I'll tell you that much. If they can get a goalie, you know, yeah. And even like them, they got Caulfield at 15. Like, I know he should not have fallen to 15, like absolutely should not have. You know, teams were dumb and let him fall that way to Montreal's gain. But you never know. Maybe the Flames luck out, like maybe a Matias Preston ends up being that good, right? Who knows? Yeah, it's interesting to think about.
SPEAKER_02The biggest thing, too, that I think a lot of people don't talk about enough is how clean their cap situation is that Conray's like he's navigated this perfectly. Like at this point, Huberto is really the only, you know, off-putting contract you have on the board at this point. And like your cap situation is pristine. And you you've signed ball now long term, Wolf's locked up, Coronado's locked up.
SPEAKER_03Yep, you're putting under for a few more years.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so you put yourself in a really, really good position that, you know, two, three years down the line, when hopefully you are better and your young guys have started to step up, you're gonna have a lot of money to work with and to either bring in through trades or in free agency when the free agency pool is better than it is, has been in recent years. Like, so they're in a really good spot where they have a ton of picks, they have a ton of cap space, they have a really good prospect pool. If you can land a couple high draft picks in the next couple drafts, you could be in a really, really good spot. Like, like you said, Montreal is kind of what I think the goal should be. I think Montreal had better pieces in place when they rebuilt, like a guy like Suzuki and Caulfield. Yeah, the Flames don't have those pieces, but you know, they they were able to just wipe the slate clean. They had a ton of picks, lots of cap space, and now look how good they are, and they're gonna be a wagon for like 10 years. So I think the Flames and specifically Conroy has done everything he can to put them in a very, very good spot for the future. And now you just kind of need a couple lottery balls to bounce your way, or like you said, maybe the guy you pick fifth is turns out to be the best player in the draft. I mean, they did that a couple years ago when they took a Chuck sixth, which I think everyone now could say you could probably argue he's better than Matthews right now. Like, so that's that's the kind of situation that you're hoping for. So I think it's the bottom line is Connor has given them the maximum amount of flexibility, and it's just it's put them in a really good spot. You know, you look at the Leafs right now and what Brad Drilling has done to them, and they don't have picks, they don't have cap space, they traded prospects, they don't have prospects, they traded likely a top seven, eight pick for two years of Brandon Carlo or whatever. Like they traded long for a first and then flip a mint and two who looks really good in Boston. Like, even when I'm sometimes like, what are the flames doing when they you know don't do this? I I think back to the days under Brad Trolloving, and like at least at least we're not at least we don't have him run the show anymore.
SPEAKER_03Like, we're in such a better spot where they're lighting picks on fire just because they feel like it. Like I looked on, imagine that like that hammock trade.
SPEAKER_02Like if they had he doesn't learn, like he did the same thing again with the Carlo trade.
SPEAKER_03But like I look back on that hammock trade and it's like, man, if you just keep your pick, like that's Noah Dobson or whoever they would have taken.
SPEAKER_01The pick turned into Noah Dobson.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, like they he just lit picks on fire, like even like a second for Curtis Alzhar, like you know, obviously, like when it like like I wasn't mad with the move at the time, but like he threw three picks at Kelly Yarncroak, who scored one goal in 30 games for them, you know, like he was just lighting picks on fire, he was sending away guys. It was um, you know, it could be worse. We could still have tree living, and you know what? I know you guys didn't like the guy, but I think as Daryl Sutter's last like going away piece was making Brad Tree Living Rage quit because they were like, We're not firing him, and he's like, All right, I'm leaving. And then Brad left and they fired Daryl anyway. So it's uh it definitely like it's it's something that like you look back on and you go, Thank God Daryl was actually such an ass. Thank God he was such a hard ass and like didn't care. And like, yeah, him and Tree obviously did not see eye to eye. And that was we ended up learning that like that wasn't Tree Living's hire bringing in Daryl in that COVID year, right? It wasn't his pick. But hey, thank God that's like the one good thing Murray Edwards did. He brought in his buddy Daryl, and then a year later, Brad Tree Living rage quits. So I will say, just kind of on the part of Joshua saying how Conroy's done a really good job of the cap and all that. What I will say, and I don't even know if this is indicative of Conroy, I do think they really have to rebuild uh the Wranglers. They have a lot of guys who are RFA and UFA this year that they can probably just say, like, yeah, like we don't need you. Like Stronggren, Kirkland, Carter King, Parker Bell, Siona, Bishop, Karens, Morton, Miramanov, Kevin White, I don't even know who you are, Grushnikov, and then in that you have Prasvitov and Say. Like they've got a lot of guys who are UFA, and they've got a lot of like this talent coming, like a Kastania who just signed, an Axel Hurdick, who just signed, Abram Weeb, who's probably gonna sign. You might see Reshny, Gross, Tyson Gross, yeah. Hansik, who I imagine starts in the AHL next year. They probably have to rebuild the Wranglers a little bit. You know, there's probably a lot of guys that they can let go. Even some of these young guys, how many of them do you bring back? I look at probably just Stronggren, you know?
SPEAKER_02He's probably only gonna be able to do it.
SPEAKER_03At least on front point, Stronggren Karens is a guy I'm like, at this point.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, like maybe you probably would break back, but the only problem is that the planes just never give him opportunities.
SPEAKER_03No, and he would have to go through waivers, and at that point, yeah, do you just say you're probably like he's gonna be in the NHL next year? It's like do you do like a Matthew Phillips where just say go try and find an NHL job? Yeah, you know, like at this point.
SPEAKER_02I don't what is he trying to do?
SPEAKER_03I don't even know if he's 23 gonna be 24. You know, I I don't even think he's an NHL guy, but they never really gave him a chance to prove that. And it's very clear that I don't even think Huska really likes this player. So me, it's kind of just let him explore if you want to let him hit free agency, and then maybe if you want to, maybe if both parties decide, okay, what's what's do this? Like they bring him back, you know. But there's a lot of guys like that, you know, they don't really need to keep. Asha's gonna be an AHL or next year, Stang is gonna be an A an AHL or next year. I'm even just looking at like some of the guys they have, like maybe not. They brought in Hoffman. Yep. And then like do they sign Stoxelius or do they leave him in Sweden? Wittenbach's going back. Uh Hoskin probably goes back to the NCAA. Like, they got guys that like they can bring in and have in the AHL, but they even got guys on their NHL roster right now. Like, I'm not even convinced Klapka's on the team. I probably he probably is on the team next year. What am I saying? But they got guys that they'd I I'd imagine be able to push like through waivers, like John Beecher. Is John Beecher back on the team next year? I don't know. I wouldn't bring him back, but if you're bringing him back, I'd put I I think he would make it through waivers. I don't think anybody's gonna be, oh my god, I need John Beecher, like the Flames were, right? Yeah, because you look at their centers going in the next year, you have Frost Backland Strome, and then you make a decision on who your force is it Poss Basil, is it you know, is it Tyson like is Tyson Gross? I don't think it will be. I don't I don't know. I don't know who your 4C is. Maybe they just go and get somebody to be like, hey, play 4C for us. But they've got I I think that's the one thing they might have to spend some time on is going, okay, how do we revamp the AHL team? Because they were bad, they're bad this year. And they had a few years of being really good, and maybe it was because of how good Dustin Wolf was, but no, they they weren't very good this year, so they've got to figure that out. A lot of great conditions, yeah. And it also doesn't help, like they like they do not get fans in that building for AHL games. Like it's and I get it, like I know there's not really anyone on that team that people are probably clamoring to watch right now, at least like when Gridden was there and like if pr when Perek went down for his conditioning stint, but yeah, I they gotta do something to get people like in the building, but like I get it. I know people don't really want to go watch the Wranglers when the Flames are in town, too. It's it's a bit of a hard sell.
SPEAKER_02If if the if the NHL does go forward with those rule changes, like we could see Cole Regni there next year as a guy who as the one exception first round pick, that could that would be really exciting.
SPEAKER_03We haven't really heard much about what the future plans are for him next year, but that's we won't know until we won't know until July one, because I'm assuming they're gonna sign Weeb when Nodak season is over. Yeah. And that'll be their last contract spot, and then obviously they won't be able to sign anyone until July one or whenever the con whenever you can start signing guys for the next season, right? Like it's that week, it's that week after the draft where it's like that resign phase. I I don't know. I feel like with Reshny, I I would I'd probably send him back to Nodak for what. More year. I think you let him go. He'll be the one C there absolutely next year. You let him dominate another year. He goes to the World Juniors. He'll be a huge part of that world junior team. I would almost want him to go back. You know, Whittenback's going back, which was absolutely the right call, you know. But with Reshne, it was, yeah, I would be, I guess. Like even Potter, like Potter missed is missed a lot of time now with injury. He'll go back for sure. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03He'll he's definitely going back. Let those two kind of go back, put up some big numbers. Like Potter should be on the world. I'm assuming Potter could be on the World Junior team next year. I think he's young.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah, he's 19. Should have been on this team, honestly, in my opinion.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, like he uh like you send him back. Maybe those two are world junior guys next year. Like, not maybe. Reshne for sure will be. Yeah. He played a key part in Canada's team this year as a draft plus one. So you send both of them back, let him cook for another year, and then yeah, like Reshne. I think definitely after next year, he's gonna be on the team. Potter, probably not. Maybe he goes back for one more year. I would also love to see Colin Potter go to a different program. I don't think ASU is I know he was coming on when before he got injured, but man, I would love to see him go to a different program. The main thing is almost the same with Wittenback too.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. The main thing for me is we've spent however many time, however much time discussing these pieces, right? On the NCAA, you have these prospects, you have these picks. The main thing for me is I don't want to see the flames rush this rebuild, right? Like I remember I forget when it was, but I wrote something on one column about the Rangers when they got Kako and Lafreniere and then they signed Panarin. Obviously, they screwed up the development of those two draft picks, but they got those three players and they almost felt all right we're done too. And they rushed the rebuild, and then they made the playoffs for a few years, and now look at what they're where they're at right now, where they're sending a letter to their fans saying we're back in a rebuild. Or in the case of Buffalo, Buffalo had at one point they had Ristalin and I or Reinhart Montor, Wallmark, like all on the same team. And I I wrote something I wrote something about this on my own like two days ago. They had all five of those guys on the same team. They had players that they could build around, but they never built around them, right? They're like, okay, we have these players, we'll try to make playoffs or whatever. And then guess what? They have the second longest active playoff drought in all the big four sports behind only the New York Jets. And so it's like now you now you see this. I when I wrote this the other day, like on my own, um, now you see the Sabres, like they brought in guys like Josh Stone, who I think is one of the most underrated players in the league. You have like Thompson, obviously it's being Page Thompson, he's a star on them. But then on your D Corps, you have Power, Byron, Daleen, Kessel Ring, Samuelson. Who there's not who they're not even using. Yeah. Which is hilarious. But like you see this, and they finally realize that okay, we have to build around our actual star players like Thompson and Daleen. We can't just, okay, we have these franchise players and we're just gonna send them out to do everything on their own. Right? With the Flames, like you have these draft picks, you have you can even if you get a McKenna this year, you can't just say that's it, right? You have to actually build in smaller, cost-effective players that you can actually help complement their these guys as games so that in three or four years' time, you're actually competitive, you're consistently making playoffs, and you have fans, you know, lining up to go into Scotia place to watch this team play because they are competitive and you built a proper team.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I and I have full I have full confidence that Conrad is gonna do the right thing. Like, I think going back to Brad Sherleving, but like that whole Hamonick deal and all that, he really he did exactly what you just said you shouldn't do, and he rushed things. Like he traded picks for Hamonick, he traded picks for Mike Smith, he traded picks for Brian Elliott, like he he signed Troy Brouwer to a ridiculous contract. Like they look like they're on the right track there. They had Monaghan and Bennett, yeah, James Neal, like they had a really good thing.
SPEAKER_03James Neal signing is the entire reason Matthew Kachuk is no longer a Calgary Flame. You don't sign him. If you don't sign him, you don't have to trade for Lucic and you have a and you have five five million dollars. Yeah, well it's the Neil signing wasn't five. Wasn't Neil like five five six years, five time five point seven five. And then it might have been five years.
SPEAKER_01And then what was Lucic?
SPEAKER_03And then they brought in Lucic and Luch was at five point two.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03But if you don't sign Neil, you have all that extra cap space to sign Kachuk. Yeah, and he's probably still here.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Crazy though. Because yeah, they have two firsts this year, two first the next year, two first the year after that. Just make the picks. Like, unless there's a young talent available like that comes up at this point, I'm like, just make your picks, and then you have just a ton of assets, ton of prospects, and and build your team from there. There's no need to rush things. Like, let these guys develop, let them let them find their games. There's no point of going out and trading first-round picks for 30-year-old defensemen like Travis Hamonick and doing all that stuff that Brad Trilving did that just completely screwed the entire Goudreau era. Like they should have been a wagon for a lot of years. You know, when you find a guy like Goodreau in the fifth round, you draft Matthew Kachuk, Sean Monaghan was a 1C for years. Like Mark Giordano, who was one of the better defensemen in the league. Like when home was like sound money in that trade. I know like after the Panthers won won the cup, everyone kind of looked back and like, wow, this the Flames in the early 2010s had Sam Bennett, Sean Monaghan, Johnny Goodrohu, Matthew Kachuk, like Mark Giordano, like they were loaded. How did this team never win anything? Yeah. Because Brad Sherliving, yeah, Brad Sherliving rushed it. He's also notorious for just being horrendous at asset management, as the Leeds fans now see. But like, I have full faith that Conroy won't do that. I think he's a lot smarter than that. He's a lot smarter than Brad Trilliving. And I think he's he's probably the one pushing for a rebuild more than anyone in that organization. So I think now that they let him do it, I'm sure he's telling them like this is not a one-year thing. Like, we got to be bad for at minimum two years, like this draft, next draft. Maybe when the reign opens, you can say, okay, now we're on the upswing, but that doesn't mean you you go out and start trading picks for for older players. Hopefully by then we're starting to get a little more competitive. But yeah, it's gonna take four or five years before I think we can say the flames are a legitimate cup contender, but that's perfectly fine. I'd rather wait five years to be a contender than rush it and just be mediocre for another decade.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. I think if it was up to Codroy, he would have blown this to shreds when he got here. Or not when he got here, like when he got the job.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I think he would have blown it to shreds years ago.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. You know, like when I when I look back at the ranges and the sabers for those articles, and I'm like, geez, like you had the building blocks, and there were so many red flags for you to like not do the moves that you made. Even when in the tree living area, when you trade for hamnik or whatever, there's so many red flags that you don't make this these moves or you don't rush this, and then they still go ahead and rush it. It's like you gotta you gotta learn from those previous mistakes that you can't be made doing that, right? Like I know Josh, you were saying, like, just make the picks you have this year, and then see how those players end up panning out, and then later on down the line, if you have to make a trade like what they did at the deadline, Bitaglia for Offman, do that later, but for try to do improve your team that way. But make the picks, see what they pan out to be like raid the picks if something someone like really good comes up. Like, I wouldn't be upset if they trade us um if they use some of the second rounders to trade for Shingley. I feel like that could be a pretty good move. But like you you don't go out and start making terrible decisions and saying, okay, we're gonna push your playoffs next year because we want to sell tickets immediately for the meeting.
SPEAKER_03Speaking of Bitaglia, super quick, did you guys see his first round against uh see the numbers he put on the round? Yeah, was yeah, the he had what like 15 points in four games.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that the scores in those Flint Owen Sound games, I'm like, it was like 11-0, like 9-1 or whatever. I'm like, and then of course I look at Bataga and like, oh yeah, of course he's got like almost four.
SPEAKER_03Well, funny, like he he wasn't even a point per game player in the O this year. Like he had 27 and 36 with Kingston. Then he gets traded to Flint and he had 21 and 28 and then just went and then just went bizarro world against Owen Sound. So I don't know. That's a I don't even think that's a trade getting up in arms about it's a nothing for nothing. I think Pataglia, I don't even think would have made the Wranglers next year. And Offman, I don't really hey Brennan Offman scored 50 goals in his D plus one guys.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, someone told me that on Twitter. Uh they brought that up. I'm not gonna name names, but I don't know.
SPEAKER_03I don't know. I think Offman's probably a nothing, like he might be a fourth liner of the future, but nothing like it. I don't know. That tra again, that trade isn't really worth getting up in arms about. I think people saw, oh my god, 15 points in four games. Like, dude, it's it's fine. Like it's I don't really think Betaglia was gonna be anything, and I don't really think Offman is gonna be anything either. It's just dump for dump. Yeah, there I mean there's been guys that have torn it up in juniors who just didn't have someone posted Dryden Hunt scored like 120 points suddenly he was in junior. It's like he's been a career AHL or so it's yeah, it's an it's that's not a move I I don't think is worth.
SPEAKER_01I remember when I was drafted, I actually kind of really liked him. I thought he could turn out pretty good. But I feel like obviously he was on the Rangers, and I just the Rangers have a history of screening terrible development, terrible development developments, right? Kako, Lafreniere, Othman, right? And it's like I feel like the Flames are much better in that regard, right? You've seen them bring up like Gridden and those guys. They haven't they have a better eye for talent and in terms of actually making the right steps to develop their players. So maybe they can somehow turn around Alton because Alfred could be like when he was drafted, Alfman could have been a pretty good NHLer. And so maybe they maybe the Flames brought him in to maybe right the wrongs of the Rangers player development with him.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. He is a little bit older, like he's what, he's 23? 23. Yeah, he's a little bit older. Yeah, he's not he's not necessarily like running out of time. However, he's at that age where it's like, you know, shitter get off the pot, you know. Or are you an NHL or are you an AHL or like some some guys are obviously late gloomers, but with him, I I don't necessarily I don't know what he is. You know, yeah. I will say I don't know what he is.
SPEAKER_02He's definitely got I'd rather see get runs on the fourth line over like a Klapka or a Pas Brazil or a Lumber.
SPEAKER_03I'd like to see these last whatever six, seven games. Like I would like to see Hoffman Gross and you know whoever else they can bring up.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, the other night, I don't know if it was the last game or the the Colorado game, but like they put Beecher back into the lineup. I'm like, why? Like, what's the point?
SPEAKER_03Like But even yesterday, like yesterday, like freaking why the like why was Paul playing over Brustevich?
SPEAKER_02It's like you got like what eight games left.
SPEAKER_03Like Brustevich has been really good since coming up. Like, I I don't I don't like what? Is there they can't play because that's off Perek and Brustevich in this on the same in the same lineup?
SPEAKER_02Like that's what it seems like you can't have three rookies.
SPEAKER_03Like, I don't know. It's you know, like I know like ball and white cloud are gonna play, Matt is gonna play, but like I don't there isn't a need for Brain and Pa Hall to play. There isn't a need. Well, I guess everybody else is either hurt or just not like Hanley and Bean are both hurt now. Well, Bean's been hurt for forever. Remember Jake Bean was playing with like Uyghur earlier in the year on the top pair?
SPEAKER_02Like six points in 70 games last year, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, my my favorite was when they were scratching Preck so that Bean could play with Uyghur, who's great.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. It's not like Bean's, you know, dad was part of the Flames organization.
SPEAKER_03It is funny though, like they've come a far way, they've come a long way from October from we need more cadres, not less. And they've come a long way, and I give uh I give Conroy a lot of credit for that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, insane shift from what Baloney came out and said in November or whatever it was. Like from that to then in March, the trades they made, it's it's a complete 180.
SPEAKER_03I remember Twitter, Twitter was such a shitstorm that like week when the original he does that original interview in Buffalo, and then he doubles downs on it, he double downs in that article that Francis does, and then they do a second article and he doubles downs, he double downs again. And everyone was like, What the f I was like, what is happening? It's like we're never getting this rebuild. I think and at the time they were like, and at the time they were sitting in last. Yeah, and it at that point it wasn't really close. Like they were really, really bad to start the year. Everyone's like, You're in 32nd place. Like, what are you talking about? Playoffs.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, the funny thing, too, right after that, they went on like the a hot streak where they got to 500 Dallas, and we're like, oh my god, was Don Baloney actually right? It was just a blip, and then they just fell off in January, and now they're they're awful again. But yeah, it was it was it's crazy, like what a what a wild season it's been from October. You know, we're thinking, oh, maybe they're a playoff team because of last year, then they're awful. Then baloney comes in and says, We're a playoff team, we're not rebuilding. Three months later, Uyghur and Codger and Anderson are all gone. And it's we're like, yeah, it's just it's in yeah, it's it's been an absolute roller coaster season, but at least it's not heading in the right direction.
SPEAKER_03But I can't believe this has been I can't believe this has been the same season. Because that feels like it was a lifetime ago when it was like, oh, like we're not we're not doing this, we're not doing that. Like and then there was even all that Francis like asked like like what's going on with Conroy's contract. He's like, We're not talking about that. And like three days later he signed it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, then it was the whole thing about oh, we already signed these months ago, we just didn't announce it. And everyone's like, No, you didn't. No, you didn't. You're not like flat out lying.
SPEAKER_03Like, we're not there was uh I remember like everybody like on every flames post on Twitter, it was just like hashtag fire maloney hashtag self-team.
SPEAKER_02The green MMs came out, the OG green MM Adam 2002 or whatever came back for like two weeks and was one of the jerseys thrown in the ice and then it didn't happen and he disappeared again.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I know it's it's it's a complete 180, and it's like it was the absolute right thing to do. And if this and if this thing works, like if they win a lottery this year and they get McKenna, and then they do like and they and they're and the team is poor next year and they get another high pick. And yeah, like imagine they can turn this around like San Jose did, where it's like San Jose had these vets, they move them, they get Celebrini, they're still not very good, they get Misa, and now all of a sudden they're contending for a playoff spot. Given I don't think McKenna's gonna be as good as Celebrini is, but yeah, it's it's not the craziest thing to think about because there are similarities between San Jose and Calgary, where it's like they got that really good young goalie, they didn't really have a superstar forward prospect. Now they have one and he's given they had Will Smith, which they already had Will Smith before they had Celebrini, but it's not like the craziest scenario to think about. Obviously, I don't think McKenna 19 is gonna be a 100-point player, yeah. But it's still yeah, it's nuts to think about like where San Jose was just a few years ago, where they are now. It's it's impressive. Yeah, and it helps when you have a player that I don't even think when he was drafted, people thought celebrating was gonna be this good, at least not this quickly.
SPEAKER_02Like, I don't think anyone expected him to be like a harder point player, but oh my god, he's like verging on generational territory now, which no one expected out of his draft years.
SPEAKER_03Unbelievable. I don't know if you guys saw that game the other night against Anaheim, but like he just put them on their back. He's like, I'm I'm willing this game, like I'm gonna I'm gonna win this game for us. Yeah, he's he's a freak.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's that's what that's what we need. We we haven't had that since Gaudreau and Kachuk left. Like those were guys who could legitimately, well, I mean, 21-22, they did how many nights? Like they literally won games the flames.
SPEAKER_03Like there'd be games like they shouldn't have been in, and it was like Gaudreau and Kachuk would go out there and just it's like all right, like I'm gonna we're gonna go score this shift, and they would like let's win the game. Yeah, it's it's I missed that feeling of like just having like like I remember that year especially. It's like every time those three went on the ice, it was like they could score. Yeah, it was like just having those three killers like that can yeah that line of players that line was one of the best in hockey and it's like so where did Knock?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, not even that year, just like ever.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, of all I remember I remember Jfresh did a post. I remember Jfresh did a post like a year or two ago, and it was like it was like the best lines of like the 21st century, and it was like I think it was like Crosby, Kunitz Dupuis, and then it was Gadro Kachuk Monahan, or yeah, Gadro Linh Kachak. It's like how did we only have that for one year?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah, considering you had considering you had those three for like however many together for however many years, like how was that line?
SPEAKER_03And the fact they only did it once, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Daryl Sutter was the only one with a brain who figured, hey, maybe we should put our two best players together on the floor.
SPEAKER_03I remember in that that 1920 year, Peters did it for like a few games. He put Gajrol Little and Kachuk together, and then like after like a couple games, they're like, Yeah, we're not doing this anymore. And then Sutter came in the next year, and like with like 20, like like 15 games left, he's like, Yeah, screw it. Let's see what could let's see what these three can do. And they were they were like unbelievable. Like they're lighting teams up, and then you go into the next year, and from day one, they're like, This is our top line. And they I want to say they played every game together except for like maybe a couple. I remember after they got to Foley, there was a few games Sutter tried mixing the lines up, but like it was like, yeah, like this is not a long-term thing. We're going right back to these three. It's yeah, it was nice having a line of just assassins that would just go out and be like, yeah, we're gonna score three in this period and just put you guys away. That's what we need to do. Hopefully, one day now. Yeah, hopefully one day we can get that back.
SPEAKER_02Yep. Well, everyone, thanks again uh for tuning in for another episode of the Win Calm Calgary Flames podcast. We'll touch base in a couple of weeks, hopefully, after uh a big lottery win and uh the Flames uh lose every single game the rest of the way. And we'll talk to you then. Uh as always, follow, like, subscribe on your podcast uh platform of choice, and we'll see you in the next one.