The Win Column Podcast
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The Win Column Podcast
The Calgary Flames Are Picking 6th...Who Do They Pick??
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We Flames fans are still suffering from the results of the NHL Draft Lottery, but we need to start looking forward. Who should the Flames take at 6th overall?
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SPEAKER_00Welcome back everyone to another episode of the Win Column Calgary Flames podcast. It's been uh quite a while since we last spoke. Uh as always, I'm your host, Josh, with my co-host Alex. Um, obviously the big news is the draft lottery. As we all know, Flames won, McKenna's coming home. No, just kidding. The Leafs won, and I don't know about you, Alex, but I think everything about that that lottery pretty much went worst case scenario for the Flames. I don't think it could have possibly gone worse that night.
SPEAKER_02No, nail they ran the head. They moved down two slots. Somehow Bragg Trilith's roster that he constructed gets them a first overall pick, even though he got fired weeks before. Yeah, pretty much worst case scenario in a year where it finally felt like this was the year they were gonna get like a top two, top three, maybe even top one pick, considering how they started the season. When they lose 11 of their first 13, it really felt like this was gonna be the year. And it's not to say that picking sixth is a bad thing. Like picking they're gonna get a good player, but it does feel like kind of a wasted season after everything that we thought was gonna happen and after all the trades they made, and uh yeah, it's it sucks, you know. Like even if they had stayed at four, I think I would have been okay with that because they would have kind of had their pick of a litter of the guys. It doesn't really feel like that anymore, where I feel like they're gonna have they're in I feel like there's if there's someone they really want, they gotta hope he drops, which we don't even given we don't really know what they're thinking. I I know as a group we've talked a lot about Carson Carls or Vigo Bjork. I mean one of them will be there. I think Bjork will be there. I'm not necessarily sure about Carls. But this was kind of the year where they needed that impact forward, and um unfortunately they're they're not gonna get a McKenna or a Stenberg, which sucks. But uh I don't know. I just I feel like they're gonna go back to being mushy middle next year, and that's what I think worries me the most. Like even though you look at the roster and it's not that great, I do fear that like surely their highest point score isn't gonna have 45 points like that. 45 points again. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Right. Yeah. Yeah, that's the worry I think.
SPEAKER_00Well, yeah, like you said, it's just figures that the two teams that went water to the most undeserving teams. Like the Leafs absolutely did not deserve that pick. They're probably the least, maybe other than Florida, I would say the least deserving team. They the last time they picked the last time they missed the playoffs in general was 10 years ago, and they won Moss to Matthews. They make the playoffs for 10 straight years. Looks like they're on the path to disaster, and of course, here comes a lottery to bail them out of it and give them Gavin McKenna and probably keep Matthews around. And I mean, I don't know, they still have a lot of issues, but it's just like to see how much we've been like just begging for, not even a first overall pick, like a top three pick in Calgary Hill. I would have been happy with a top five pick, which we've only done once. Like to lose out on that and then see a team like the Leafs who just don't deserve it at all, just jump, jump the flames multiple teams. Like, I mean, I I don't like the Canucks, but even the Canucks, like to see those teams that deserve it way more. Toronto jumps them, and then of course San Jose, who's just absolutely loaded with top three talent, you know, probably the best player in the in the world within a couple years. Tellebrini, they got Misa, all those guys. Yeah, why not give them a second overall pick and Stenberger, whoever they want? Like it's it just I mean, yeah, it's the life of a flames had another kick in the ass. Like, just could not have gone possibly worse. And you know, I think following the standings all year, I'm pretty sure the Flames are in the bottom five teams like every single since yeah, since October, every single day of the year. So of course it figures after all that they're not even picking the top five. They're bumped all the way to six, which they've picked like six times or five times in their history.
SPEAKER_02They've never won a lottery. Like they've never moved up in a they've never moved up in a draft. They've always moved down or they've stayed, right?
SPEAKER_00Like or stayed where they are, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Like obviously, yeah, like the last time they picked Rayleigh high was ten years ago when they got Matthew Kachuk. And I think people forget, like, they they moved down, like they were in the five spot and Winnipeg junked them. And luckily for them, yeah, like Kachuk ended up working out extremely well. He probably shouldn't have even fell to six. I don't think he was even projected to go that low. I mean, think of him not that low. I think he was projected at like fourth, and then Pugliery falls, and Edmunds snags him up, and then Vancouver was being dumb. Yeah, but the one thing with me with the lottery, and I'm not just saying it because like the Leafs won and I'm I'm upset that the Leafs won. I said it last year when the Islanders jumped and Utah jumped. Like the lottery doesn't reward the bad teams for being bad. Like, you look at Vancouver and they're they're so bad, and their prospect pool isn't great either. They got guys, like, don't get me wrong, like I think Boyam's gonna be a player, and I think Coots will be good, and they've got some guys, but I mean their prospect pool isn't necessarily loaded with talent, right? And they like they get absolutely screwed. Like they moved down from one to three, and like they're they're now are gonna miss out on most likely McKenna and Stenberg. I mean, there's reports coming out that they were gonna take Malhotra either way, so they'll probably get their guy regardless. But yeah, like I don't think the Leafs obviously like the Leafs did, you know, first overall pick with all the talent they have, right? San Jose, like, yeah, sure, they don't have defensemen, but like, man, like another second overall pick. Yeah, I blame the Oilers for being so incompetent for so many years that they had to change their traffic lottery rules because of it. But like, yeah, like but the problem is that yeah, Edmonton Moose run poorly.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02You look at all their guys, like L10 and Yakapov, every single one of those guys worked out in some way whether it's for them or not. Like Hall became an MVP, who just been a like maybe not first overall good, but he's turned out to be a very solid player. He scored 100 points for years. Obviously, McDavid's the best player on the planet. Yeah, like the only one that really didn't work out with Jakapov, but even like someone that got a third, like Dreisadle is now top five at worst.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Uh in the league. So it's it's unfortunate. You know, I my whole like all of next year would have been like all my hopes are just kind of like, uh, you know, I'm not really that excited for next year. It's like I was hoping we'd see a lineup with a McKenna or Stenberg in it, and now it's we're they're probably just gonna run back the same roster that they had at the tail end of the year, and there's nothing really to look forward to, maybe outside of Perek and Gridden, because like Reschney's going back to Nodak, um, and there's a few guys that just probably aren't ready for prime time. Like, you know, obviously Colin Potter is probably two years away. Even some of the guys they took in the 24 draft, like um like a Basha, like he's definitely not ready, and Misa's nowhere close. It's gonna be basically the same roster, and we're just gonna have to slug through another 82 games and hopefully them be bad again. Yeah, and I'm not necessarily looking forward to that because there's not really anything, you know, and like I said, I I'm just worried that like Wolf is gonna be a lot better. And like it's not to say that he was bad this year, it's just he wasn't as good as he was the year prior. I'm worried that guys are just like the puff's gonna start going in a little bit more. Like they had this historically bad offensive year, and they finished they didn't even finish last, finished fourth last. You know, so I'm just worried guys are gonna like like a fear like Grinan's gonna get a little bit better, and I'm not saying he's gonna score like 70 points next year. But yeah, like him maybe getting a little bit better. Maybe Coronado takes a step next year. I don't know. They've got a lot of guys that I think could potentially break out. Yeah. And then obviously you got like Frost and Faraby who came on really at the tail end of the year, which sucked for the tank. Yeah, it did. But it's it's hilarious thinking like we wanted them to lose all these games, and if they had just won one more game, one they win.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Assuming the lottery goes the same way, they they would have they would have Makeda, which is for all the people that aren't on team tank, is they're gonna be like, see, tanking doesn't work, and it's like, well, you know, it's it's unfortunately the luck of the draw, and it is what it is. And yeah, I don't know if this you know, I don't know if this like uh decelerates the timeline, I guess, for for this. I don't know. They still got good prospects, but again, they don't have difference maker. They don't have the stud, which I've four at least, yeah. Yeah, and who knows, maybe if they do take a forward and like crazy scenario, like if they take a Vigo Bjork, or maybe it's even maybe it's even the Titan Lawrence. Who knows? Maybe one of those guys become really good players, but I wouldn't bank on them being first line stars.
SPEAKER_00No, yeah, that's not yeah. I think it definitely bumps back the rebuild timeline at least a little bit. Like I think it's not like we said, six overall is still a very good pick. They're gonna get a good player, but yeah, it's not gonna be a difference maker, and that's what they need at this point. So it's I think it definitely adds a year or two to the to the rebuild. Because I think if you walk away with McKenna, like there's your star forward, that's the guy you build around, and there's a lot more optimism. Versus now it's like, well, we still don't have that guy, and we're kind of running out of time, like you said, to be at the top of the lottery because next year is probably their last chance, honestly. I think yeah, I don't think going into the new rank, they're gonna want to be that no, and like they do have a good prospect pool and good group of young players, so I think by 2028 it's probably gonna be not that they're gonna be a contender or anything, but I think they're gonna be too good to be bottom five team. So I think the biggest thing that this lottery result has done is taking the 2027 lottery from like it's very important to like now, it's like okay, this is like an absolute necessity. Like you have to be picking ideally top three, but bare minimum top five next year. Because if you don't, I don't know really know where you go from there. I think you look at any rebuild throughout throughout the years, any successful rebuild, it's there's at least one, typically multiple, like top three, top five picks worked into there, and that's what you build around. So the Flames don't have a single one of those yet. And I think next year is probably gonna be their final opportunity to do it. It's also loaded class with centers, which is exactly what they need. So I think this lottery hasn't dismantled the uh the rebuild timeline. It's not the end of the world, but I think it it makes next year even that more much more important. Like you need to be as bad as you possibly can. And yeah, like you said, it's when you have a goalie like Wolf, you never know what's gonna happen. Like we saw in 24-25, they were pretty dreadful, but Wolf stood on his head for most of the season and they almost meant to playoffs. Yeah, so like that that's definitely a concern. Who knows what Devin Cooley's gonna do? I mean, this past year, he was a Vesna caliber goalie next year. Maybe he's he's an HL goalie again. I don't know, but that would be ideal. Yeah, like there's a lot of reasons to think they're gonna be pretty bad next year, but then there's also a lot of reasons to think that they might be not as bad just because you know you get bounce backs from guys, Preck and Gridden take a step. Coronado didn't have the best year, like I could see him you know being better next year, his wolf's better game up. Yeah, exactly. But I mean on the other hand, you know, Anderson gone, we are gone, Audrey gone, Hubert oh, who knows what's up with him? Like, he's not gonna be high.
SPEAKER_02Who knows how like when he comes back, like what who is he?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, exactly. So I think there's definitely optimism for next year that they're gonna be bad, but it's just yeah, take away a McKenna and that kind of optimism. And now it's like now we're just gonna be stressing from October to April, like praying that they're at the bottom. And if they're not, I don't know what the plan is. I think that's gonna I think Conroy's gonna be more pissed than anyone because you could you saw his reaction on that lottery when the Leafs won, you know he was just trying his hardest to keep a straight face for the camera, but he was absolutely pissed on the inside. He's probably like, Are you kidding me?
SPEAKER_02And again, it's the moral fact that they dropped, like if they stay at four, like I'm seeing these mock draps come out and people saying that like Stenberg could potentially drop to four because they think the sharks are gonna take a defenseman and that Vancouver really likes Malhotra, and next thing you know, like imagine they stayed at four and all that happens. Well, given they wouldn't be able to stay at four if San Jose jumped, but like you get what I mean. Like, yeah, if there was a team there that really wanted defensemen, like it would have been it's like, oh my god, like we got this stud who's gonna drop to us, you know. Like, I don't think I don't even know like who like who they're gonna pick. At least like the last like few years. Like I remember in 24, it was pretty consensus. Like, there was a group of guys that we thought would be there, and they all ended up being there. Like, Perek was at the top. I think we thought Bullion would be there, Catton we thought would be there, um, Dickinson. Like, I think we were all pretty locked in on defenseman in 2024. Like, we're like, okay, they should probably take a D. And I think they got one of the better ones in the draft than Perek. This year it was very much like they need a forward, and I wonder, like, do they go a little off the board? Like, I've been doing a little bit more research on Tyman Lawrence, and he start he's starting to make a little bit more sense to me. Like, I know people like Bjork a little bit more. Um, but I've scored 50 goals this year. I'm not too worried about a smaller guy. What's Bjork's like upside in the NHL? I'm not entirely sure yet. There's a lot of questions, and yeah, like I said, it would have been nice to land one of those top two guys. Realistically, if you like one of I think the Flames, if in a perfect quote, Conorway would want them to be bad for the next two years. The unloaded draft coming up with centers uh this year is like someone like Alexi Joseph. There's that Russian kid who's apparently killing you over there. I know Drew talks about multiple time, and obviously Landon DuPont's at the top of the list next year, and then the year after that in 28 is Maddox Schultz and Liam Pugh, and there's some really good guys at the top of that draft. Who knows? I don't think they're gonna be any good by 2028, but I feel like they're gonna want to spend to the cap and try and bring guys in. Hey, Kale McCarr, no judge, he'll never come here. Um, but it's yeah, it definitely sucks, especially when all year long we're like this might actually happen. Yeah. Unfortunately, it didn't, and it is what it is, nothing they can control. I think obviously in a perfect world, they'd be picking first overall, but it isn't, and you know, it is what it is. So it was disappointing to say the least. If they were getting a top three pick, I was making that drive out to Buffalo to go watch, and 100% Yeah, I know you you couldn't you couldn't pay me to go with Philippe's pickers. You couldn't be able to knock out jails.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, it's yeah, like you said, this this just like we we know we're cursed as in as Flames fans, whatever, but this just felt different this year. Like it just felt like the year, like I think they basically Conrad basically did every possible thing you could hope to to get this team close to a first overall pick. He traded a bunch of veterans with turn, which they typically historically have never done. He finally pulled the trigger there and convinced ownership or whatever he had to do. Like they shut down Huberto, Kevin Ball was shut down for a bunch of games, like I think White Cloud was held out for a bunch of games. Like they literally started an ECHL rookie goalie in the last team of the season to try to walk up third overall, and of course that backfires. He stands on his head. Like so I think at least we can take stalls on the fact that they're doing the right things. They just got absolutely screwed by bad luck. Like, at least in the past, they were doing the wrong things and then also having bad luck. Yeah, so at least this time we can say, you know, I've I have full confidence that Conroy can make the right decisions. I mean, he has so far, and like, yeah, at the end of the day, he I don't know what else you could possibly have done to make sure this team is winning a first overall pick. Like they they did every single proper step, they traded everyone they possibly could with the retention slots they had, they shut down veterans, they started rookie goalies, they let the young guys play heavy minutes.
SPEAKER_02Like well, think of it, like even with Cooley, like he had like a 500 save percentage in the preseason. They were like, Yeah, you won the job. Yeah, they were like, We don't even care about backup at this point. We're like, whatever. Right? So, but yeah, like and I I have to imagine Coleman's out the door this summer. I I think potentially, yeah. So like I was like at their pumpkin man, they had so many forwards. Like, I don't know where you make room for certain guys. Like I think they have like six, like like 14 or 15 forwards. Like, assuming they bring Lomburg back, which they might. They already have too many guys, they gotta ship guys out. Like, yeah, Coleman, I would trade July 1. Because obviously that's when your retention slots fill like the the uh yeah, so you want to uh you want to have Anderson, you want to Markstrom on there. It'll just be Codre. July 1, hey, who needs who needs play Coleman? Because the free agency class sucks this year because everybody be signed. I think you gotta at least ask about Serengovich. I don't think you're moving him.
SPEAKER_00See if there's any takers, yeah.
SPEAKER_02See if like if there's anybody that would be like, hey, you want this player. You know what? I would start shopping Frost. I'd go, hey, like, he's got one year left. Yeah. After what Coyle just signed for, I'm not I I don't want to keep that player because he's probably gonna want like five, six mil, six and a half, you know, which is not gonna be worth it for somebody like Morgan Frost. Erby, I would look at it like, didn't he? He only scored 20 goals this year. I'd be like, hey, like yeah, this guy, like there's definitely some guys that I would I would be like, hey, let's let's we'll get moving because we have so many forwards, because you're not moving Hubert O. You're not getting out of Sharon Govich. Odyssey, like Coronado, Zeri, Grinning, they're gonna be there. And maybe even not Zeri, but back ends not going anywhere. Yeah, back lane, like, yeah, there's definitely like and and I always forget that like Hansik played in the NHL last year for some time. He's in the mix, yeah. And he's probably gonna come back looking to get an NHL job. I don't know if I would necessarily start him in the NHL next year, it'd probably be like go play some AHL games and then we'll and then we'll see. Because like again, there's so many forwards to mix that are already taken, right? And even like I think this player will be in the AHL. Like sure, but like I thought Tyson Gross by the end of the year. I was like, maybe he's your 4C next year. Like, I don't think he looked on place necessarily. So there's there's a lot of forers and not that many spots up for grabs unless you start moving guys. And if you start moving guys, hey, maybe necessarily now they're worse. Like if you move a Blake Coleman, who had a really good year, I thought this year. That's a big loss. Yeah, it's huge, and like it's bit it's bad, it's being you know in the room, and then obviously on the ice, like he's your top penalty killer. I think he had the most ice time on the team this year.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, he's like essentially operates as like your number one forward to a degree. Like he's not offensively, he's not, but like he's the guy who Ryan Haskell does. Yeah, he's your go-to guy, and like so was Michael Backlund, but he's 37 now. At some point, I mean he's already started to take a step back. He's still last year.
SPEAKER_02I thought Backlund even had a good year like for being 36, 37 year old. But yeah, like yeah, he can fall off a cliff next year. Like we don't know, you know. Um, but like there's that, and yeah, who knows? Who knows really? And I just I worry about the Muslim middle stuff. I I I really do. It's it's tough. But like again, I think tree I not tree living. Uh like Conroy did everything he could. Like, he can't play and there's blame on him. Like he moved off all these guys that we thought were gonna be like I thought we were saying a flame for life, and he was gone. You know, we knew Anderson was gonna go, and I don't really think any of us really believed that they were gonna move Contrary um until it happened, you know. Last minute, yeah. Yeah, so they've they they've done the right things, they've they're moving in the right direction, but now it's you know, they're gonna have to find talent in this year's draft. And I know there is talent available, there's guys, but you know, we talked about the Ruck twins the like the entire year, and I and I they're both going first round. Like, there's no way you get them. We were talking about a month ago that Vegas pick potentially being like 18th overall. It's now gonna be either 28, 29, 30, or third or 29, 30, 31, or 32 because they made the conference finals, which sucks. Um and now that pick doesn't have the value it did back in you know March. A month ago, yeah. When when Vegas was we didn't even know they'd make the playoffs.
SPEAKER_00Thanks again to the Oilers for completely blowing the Pacific Division title.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so it it sucks, but at the end of the day, you still gotta be happy with the steps they took in the direction of going in in terms of a rebuild. You just gotta hope next year now it's like okay. Crunch down now. Yeah, hopefully everything falls where it should and they and they land a pick next year. It would be it would be huge. I don't know about you, I don't know how you would feel about them potentially moving up in the draft, depending on the price.
SPEAKER_00No, definitely not. I think yeah, if you start seeing like I assume McKenna's going number one, so I'm not even gonna assume he drops at all. But uh if you see a guy like Stemberg start to drop, which I think is a possibility, I 100%. I mean, I think I think Pat Stanberg mentioned this. Like Conor is 100% going to be making calls to try to move up. He said it's it's highly unlikely just because those trades don't happen in the NHL. But yeah, 100%. If you see Stemberg start to drop in a 3-4 range, you're calling up the Canucks. If they really do want Moltr Malholtr that bad, like or you know, you're calling up the Blackhawks, although I think they'd be nuts to pass on Stenberg to pair with Pedard, but I think it's absolutely something you have to look into. The the main one that could be an option is number two, the Sharks, just because they're they're in a spot where they have the forwards they need, and now they're they moved up unexpectedly to. So it's yeah, it must be nice to have that that that issue.
SPEAKER_02But yeah, the 19-year-old who scored 115 points this year, and now you're breaking second overall. Tonice.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah. Like how what do we do now? We need defensemen, but we also have this stud forward from that central.
SPEAKER_02But for and like the sharks make sense. Like they would be the make the most sense to move down because I feel like if they were targeting a defenseman at two, like let's say the Flames are the team they trade with, I feel like they might be able to get that same player at six.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02Maybe not Chase Reed. I feel like maybe he goes five if that's the case.
SPEAKER_00Probably the first.
SPEAKER_02Like maybe if they really like Carson Carls, maybe they really like Keaton Verhoff, I feel like they'd be able to get that player at six. Right. Or I've seen scenarios in which they take Stenberg at two and then they package up like Eklund and they have the 20th overall pick, which they got from Edmonton in the Wallman trade. Is there a defenseman that might become available that fits a window a lot like Noah Dobson last year in Montreal?
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00That seems like the most important thing.
SPEAKER_02San Jose would make the most sense.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think if any year it's going to happen, this seems like the year. Because you've got San Jose there who just it makes sense for them to try to get a defenseman. Then you have teams like the Flames, the Canucks, who are desperate for a high end forward. So like they're going to be pushing hard to move up. So I think again, I it's probably unlikely, but if any year it's going to happen, I feel like it's this year. I think obviously the Flames have the pieces to make it happen. They have an insane amount of picks. As long as they're not asking for Zayn Preck, which I mean probably would be their ask. But as long as they're not asking for him, like I think I'm open to moving just about anyone on the roster to the case.
SPEAKER_02I think I would trade every pick in this draft to move up to six or to move up to two. Okay, that sounds crazy. Even if it was one, like if the leads were considering moving it, would I like would you every draft pick you have in this draft to move up to one? I think I would. I think it was the Islanders back in 2015. Amarello like went to Edmonton and was like, we will give you every pick we have this year from one. And Edmonton was like, no, because David like wouldn't have made sense for them. But interesting to think about. I don't think there's gonna be any trades. I think it's gonna be I think it's gonna be the most boring scenario. And now it's like, oh great, now who are we getting at six? Because like I said, the last time they picked six, like they got lucky that Canax that Columbus takes Dubois, which nobody thought they were gonna do. Yeah, Edmonton pivots because if I don't know if you've heard the story, but Edmonton was gonna take Kachuk. They had the jersey made for him, it was ready to go, and then Pugliarby drops and they completely pivoted. And like if you go back and watch that draft, they give Pugliarby a jersey, and there's not even a name on it. It just has 16 on it for the year of the draft. So and then yeah, and then obviously they got lucky when Vancouver took takes Yolevi, but it took two relatively dumb. I mean, I I'm not gonna say Pouliarby was a dumb move because he was he was projected like a second overall earlier in the year and just Malcolm Austin Matthews. So but it took a few things for it to happen for them to land this player. We all knew like when the Flames got him a go, this guy's gonna be a star. Like everyone saw it coming.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, I just don't necessarily know if that player is available at six this year. Like, I'm pretty high on Carson Carls, but even him, like, how high the ceiling? Is he a first pairing defenseman? I don't know. Maybe it's possible.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's hard to tell. Yeah, that's the thing with the draft is for all we know, the sharks are sitting there and they have Albert Schmidt's number one on their board. Like, we don't know. Like, for all we know, they're gonna throw a huge wrench just like Columbus did with Pierre-Luc Duball that then throws the whole rest of the order at a whack, or maybe the Rangers are high on Bjork and take them five and then someone else drops. So you really don't know.
SPEAKER_02Stuff we don't know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's but yeah, I think going back to the Flames kind of needing that difference maker, that's where I wonder about Vigo Bork at six, like because he's kind of, in my opinion, the third highest upside forward after the big two. And so is that a situation where like maybe the safe pick is to take you know Keaton Vera off or one of the defensemen available, but we we're hoping to pick higher, we're not. We desperately need high-end forward talent. Do we take the risk with the small guy from Sweden and just hope that you know he turns out like Zach Benson has or like Braden Poyn has? And I think if there's any GM who's gonna make that type of pick, it's Craig Connery. Like you look at his history in the first round, like Parek, Gridden, Potter, Rezniv, and like all of these guys are like smaller offensive, dynamic guys who have red flags elsewhere, but he's willing to take that gamble. I think the question is, is he willing to take it at sixth overall that high or not? But I think I I I just have a feeling, and especially when you watch Bjork at the the World Championships go against like Crosby and Celebrini and Scheifley, and really did not look that out of place. Like he's going toe-to-toe with those guys, he's outmusling Adam Clapp go along the boards. Like, just he's got that fight in him. So, like, again, it reminds me of a guy like Benson. You watch him in the playoffs, like he's small, but he's just in the middle of everything, brain point. Not saying Bjork's gonna be like a 50 goal score or anything, but I think yeah, if you go brain to point at six, you're pretty happy. Yeah, exactly. Like he strikes me as another guy in that line of like the Benson Stancoven's points to brink at those short, dynamic guys who just every single year there's one of them, and they fall, and everyone's yells like this guy's gonna be a stud, and then every single time they are. So I would not be upset at all if they take the gamble on Burke. I also wouldn't be upset if they think it's too risky and they say let's just take Keaton Bear off. Or like, yeah, like you said, even Tynan Lawrence, like I wouldn't be upset with that's the guy.
SPEAKER_02He he he can fly, and I think that's you look at the Flames roster, and even their prospect pool, they don't have a lot of guys that are just burners. Mean speedy guys, like they don't, and like Dork's side guy too. Like Dork can fly. But what I've liked, what I've seen with Lawrence and the videos I've watched is that he skates really well. He seems to be really smart with the pump, he's good defensively. The I think the issue is we don't know what his offensive upside is. He very well could be Michael Backlin, where yeah, he's just really good, can play in a two-seat role, really good two-way, but yeah, he might hit 50 points a couple times, which at six, you you want to try to find someone a little bit more with a higher ceiling. However, seeing Lawrence has a bit of a higher ceiling when it comes to his offense. Like, yeah, if he went to BU this year, that's a really tough jump to make, like mid-season as a 17-year-old, going from the USHL, which he was tearing it up into Boston University and one of the best, like you know, in the NCAA. That's that's a hard jump to make. So I'd be intrigued to see what his year next year looks like. Because then if next year it's like if he doesn't have a great year next year, then it's like, oh, like uh, maybe we didn't mess up here.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02But maybe it's like a at James Haggins where like his draft year, like he was a point per game in the NCAA, but he was originally the guy who was supposed to go first overall, and people thought he was gonna have like a bonkers here where he was gonna throw up like a two points per game like a celebrane or after Antilly did, and he didn't necessarily do that, he was only a point per game, but this year he took a major step and he's gonna play on the Bruins next year, right? Can you get that kind of jump with Lawrence? I'm not entirely sure. They're gonna be without Cole Eiserman, Cole Hudson's no longer there. They I know they got that Villanove guy, Xavier, I don't know, yeah, I think he's heading over to Boston BU. So like there's gonna be talent there, but I feel like next year especially, it's gonna be a lot on him to drive the offense. Is that a guy you want to take at six? I think I could see it, but I think the guy I would want the most if he's there is Carson Carls. We've talked about, I feel like we've been talking about for so long about needing to find Zayn Perek a partner, and for the longest time it was finding Mackenzie Weager a partner, because for the last couple years he was playing with like Miramanov, Hanley, Bean, all these guys, and I was like, what are we doing here? Where now Weager's gone, I think the most important thing is to find Zane Perek a long-term partner, and I think Carson Carls can be that player. He's a left-handed shooting guy, he's really good defensively, he flies, he can play, he's very good offensively as well. I feel like they might be a match kind of made in heaven where like, yeah, Carl can take the defensive bride, Zayn can go do his thing offensively. And you also look at her prospect pool, they don't have a ton of guys that are left-handed shooting defensemen that project as top pairing guys. They don't have that. Who do they have on the team right now? Kevin Ball, a really good four, I think. You know, he's gonna be on your second second pair of stabilizing guy. Kuznets off, eh, like third pairing at best, maybe fringe guy.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, outside of that, they don't really have a lot of guys. Like, I can't even think of a guy who shoots left like in their prospect pool. Like, you know, I think Jameson might be a left shooting guy.
SPEAKER_00I think Etienne Moran, but he had a bit of a struggle, a bit of a tough year in the HL ECHL this year.
SPEAKER_02But he was, and Moran was what, 20 when they draft him, 2023. Yeah, and now it's like you're talking three years ago. You know, I'm not saying that shit the sale on him, but he's coming up in his what his draft plus four now, and it's kind of like you gotta get going, we gotta see what we have in this kid, right? So if they can land a guy like Carls I'd be fairly happy with that. I like Verhoff, but again, they have so many guys on the right side, and I know Perek in the past has played the left, but are you really gonna subject this kid to the left side in the future? I don't know if you want to do that. Carl would be my pick. If he's not there, I imagine Bjork or Lawrence will be. Though they would be like, to me, I wouldn't care which one they picked out of those two. I'd be happy with both. Because I don't know, I don't think Bjork is gonna project as a center in the NHL. Maybe he's a winner. Maybe he's a center, I don't know. Whereas Lawrence, I think, will be a center because he's a big boy, like he's got the tools. Yeah, I'd be okay with either one of those guys. I know some of you guys are a little bit lower on Lawrence, and maybe I am, but I think they're gonna get a good player. Fortunately, it's not gonna be the superstar that we thought.
SPEAKER_00That they need, yeah. Yeah, yeah, I'm full agree with with Carls. I think if he's there, you you take him, no questions asked. Like, obviously, assuming Stemmer McKenna, which they won't be. So I think if they were at three, I probably would have taken Carson Carl Carls. Like he would have been my guy at three. So if he's there at six, I think you run up and you take him. I think you know, there's a lot of I've seen sections of the fan base kind of say, oh, we don't want defense, we have too many defense. But yeah, like you said, I think if people forget, like their left side is like devoid of talent. Like, yeah, there's Kevin Ball, like you said, second pairing guy because that's up to the case.
SPEAKER_02Like, he's not really a prospect anymore, right? He is what he is.
SPEAKER_00You have nothing to speak of on that left side that for the future. So, like, that's a huge I would say after center, that's probably their biggest gap, especially when you consider the guys they have on the right side, like that are more offensively inclined. You kind of need some guys on the left side who are more two-way or defensive. And Carl, I think, is a perfect fit for a guy like Corek. He offers like size, he's got like a bit of a grit snarl to his game. He's a good two-way player, good at moving the puck. So he's the guy I think 100% if he's there, you take him. And then if he's not, which unfortunately I feel like the Rangers are probably gonna take him because he's exactly what they need too. Yeah, then you go, you know, do you take Bork? Do you take Lawrence? Do you take Verhoff and any of those guys I'd be happy with? Yeah, even Albert Schmidt's, like I wouldn't be a huge fan of the pick. I wouldn't, I wouldn't hate it. I would be a little disappointed because I think it is kind of a low upside at for six overall. But I think as long as you're not going way off the board and doing something crazy, I don't I wouldn't be too upset with whoever they take. Like, and again, if if this was Brad Trilliving or Jay Feaster behind the in the draft board, I would have been a little worried about what insane pick they're gonna make. But I think I trust Connery to make the right decision, and whoever he picks, even if it's not someone I agree with, maybe I'll I think I I'll be like, all right, I I trust him. He's made right decisions in the past. So I'll just I'll go with whatever he thinks versus yeah, if it's Trilliving and he's taking Talpi Ronnie ahead of Lane Hudson, you're like, you know immediately this is a terrible decision. So at least we have a GM now who we can trust. Yeah, exactly. Taking Stromgren, like, yeah, like talking about Fords and all that, like Stromgren, another guy who's just kind of there in the mix, like he's not really an HLR. Like, what is he? So it's like at the very least, all this talk about how much it sucks to drop, at least we have a GM who I think we can trust to make the right decision. And yeah, whoever they walk away with, like you said, it's not gonna be the difference maker we need, but it is gonna be a big building block. Like, whether it's Bjork, that's your best forward prospect, it's Carl, you know, he becomes the potential dynamite pairing with Perk down the line. Like, I think you're gonna get a good player, and it's gonna help the future. It's unfortunate it's not gonna be McKenna-Stenberg Global, which we all hoped it would be, but at the very least, it's another building block towards the future, and you just gotta hope that comment like you're getting a Honsich in the middle of the first round. Yeah, you're not picking 16th. Like at least we're not in that spot again.
SPEAKER_02Like thankfully, last year when they didn't pick Lake Late, they got like a really good player and rest. I was gonna say a little bit higher.
SPEAKER_00Probably top 10, I would say, at this point. Like he was really, really good, and which I think everyone kind of was ecstatic when he fell to 18th.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I remember when they got him, I was like, this is fantastic.
SPEAKER_00Perfect pick, yeah, exactly what they needed. Yeah. Mentioning Lawrence.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, go ahead.
SPEAKER_00Like, I think an interesting thing could be if you start to see him fall, do you use that Vegas pick in a bunch of your seconds to trade up into the 10 to 15? That might be a more realistic trade-up scenario than even Preston 2.
SPEAKER_02Like if Preston starts falling, like, is that a guy you look at?
SPEAKER_00It is interesting when they made that Uyghur trade, and you I was watching the episode of the chase, like kind of in the war room, and Conrad pretty much said, like, that package with three seconds, it looked like they had one that was like a single first or the three seconds, and they took the three seconds, and he basically said, like, yeah, we're not planning to make all these picks. Like, this is just amp ammunition to make other moves. So I and everything I've read, like, and again, listening to Flames talk with Steinberg, like he's mentioned, like, yeah, it really feels like Conor's gonna be pushing hard to make some moves here, whether that's moving up or using those seconds to do something else. So, yeah, if you see like a Lawrence drop, could could the Flames walk away this draft with like Carson Carls and Tynan Lawrence? Like that would be I think a slam dunk draft if if they can make something like that happen.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Vegor Bourg too. Although at this point, I don't think he's gonna fall that far. Just I think someone's gonna snag him eventually if he's but he'll be top at worst, top twelve, I think. Yeah, 100%.
SPEAKER_02But it's crazy to say because we're talking about taking him at six.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's the you know it is one of those draft years where it's like after the big two, there's kind of a group of like 10 players where it's like if this guy goes third, I wouldn't be surprised. If he goes 10th, I wouldn't be surprised. Like if Vegor Bork, I could see him going five to the Rangers, they kind of need the same thing the Flames do. I it wouldn't shock me if they'd make that decision. And yeah, Schmitz is another guy who's kind of out there that is there a team that could view him and his size and experience playing pro leagues, like is he a guy who goes third, fourth, or fifth or something? Like I've seen people kind of murmur that the Sharks have Keaton Verhoff pretty high. Like, could they surprise everyone?
SPEAKER_02Take him too and that would be huge for the program.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that would be big for the flames, because then I think New York 100% falls.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, because then I think New York would probably lock themselves around Chase Reed. Yeah, because I think I personally think he's probably the best defenseman in the draft. The only reason I don't really want them as a flame. We want him as a flame because of all the guys they have on the right side. Like you already got Perek, you got Prustevich, you got Muse. Like you already got so many guys on the right side, and again, if you were to draft like our if you were to get Chase Reed, yeah, I would then start being like, let's maybe trade Prustevich or Muse. Right? Because I think you'd be I think Verahoff is gonna be a higher salary guy than someone like Prustevich. I really like Prustevich, though. You know, I'm just I'm looking at I'm looking at their puck media right now. Like it is it's it's so grim on the left side. So like they got in terms of like NHL or Mata, Hanley, Jake B's Ufa, and Kuznetsov. Then they got Abram Weeb, who's like their best left-handed shooting defenseman prospect. Um and then you look in the what they got in the AHL. Moran is left shooting Grushnikov, who I think a lot of us forgot about. He's 23 now, he's probably a lost cause. Um, and Axel Herting is a left-handed shooting defenseman. Again, I don't really think he's any much. And then they got like Massail Phillips, who again, I don't think he's anything at the NHL level. I think they got Eric Jameson. But yeah, they they got guys, but I don't think any of these guys necessarily um I don't think any of these guys project the same as well.
SPEAKER_00No, yeah, no, they did their third pairing. Yeah, yeah, they're all gonna be fighting for third-pairing roles in the next couple of years, but they'll make a Jake Beam, Brady Bahall, like tight player in the theatre.
SPEAKER_02So they could really they could uh like a a stud left-handed chain defenseman. They really, really could. So if Carlos falls, I think that's the guy. Unless, again, unless they really, really like Lawrence or Bjork, then but again, I'm I'm very confident in what Conroy's gonna do. Like you said in the chase with what you were mentioning with all those seconds, I don't think they're planning on using all of them. So maybe there is a team that wants to give up a mid first round pick or a late, you know, top ten pick. Like maybe there's a team out there that's looking for who do you want off the roster? Take your pick. Like, do you want someone and we can make this work? Because we have a ton of picks going into this draft. It's an interesting thing to think about. But yeah, like I think even with that Vegas pick, I think if Preston falls all the way there, I think you you you run up and you take him, right? Yeah, yeah. The Ruck twins, I think they're both going round one. I I don't think you're getting either of them, unfortunately. Like we thought maybe they would when they acquired all those picks from Utah. It was like they might be able to get both of them. And it's like I don't think it's happening anymore. But we'll we'll see how they how they play it. Um I'm very intrigued. Again, they're picking six. You know, James said it to us that and he because he was happy, I think, regardless of if they stayed at four, won the lottery, or drop that. If you had told us in the beginning of the year that they would trade Anderson, Yeager, Codry, and pick six and have what, six picks in the first two rounds, like you like you really tell us you wouldn't be happy about that. And I think we would all be like, yeah, absolutely. Because if you go back to like the beginning of the year and like you watch like the first episode of the chase during training camp, all they talked about was one more point, one more point, one more point. Because they missed the playoffs by one point last year, right? Which is also funny because if they got one more point, they'd be drafting first overall, though. But considering that's where they were at as a team, um it it's yeah, you're you're pretty you're pretty happy with it. But then again, what they lost nine straight or something after they beat Edmonton in the first game of the year, and they were lost by like a country mile to start the year, and then Vancouver to A few, and then they totally fell off a clip. So you take it, I think you're happy with him, but just hopefully next year they yeah, that's what we gotta hope for now.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, like you said, it's at the very least, I think the Flames are in a better spot than they've been in in a very long time. You look at what Connor has done, like the draft capital, the prospect pool, the cap situation is like other than Hubert O is like, and I guess Sharon Govich, but I mean he's at this point in the rising cap, his number isn't that bad.
SPEAKER_02Like, you know, even Hubert O'Bad, like it's bad, but it's not that bad.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, and like Uyghur, Uyghur's con I mean, Uyghur had a good contract, but like that money's off the books, he was getting older, Codry was gonna be that contract was gonna start looking really bad. Like he didn't re-sign Anderson. Yeah, like they're they're set up so perfectly for the future, they just need that lottery win. That's really what's the missing piece here. If they can get that next year and they walk away with like Alexis Joseph or some or one of these guys, I'm I I think they're in a really, really good spot to be a contender on down the line.
SPEAKER_02Even if you walk in with DuPont, you're laughing because then it opens up possibilities. Like, do you now do you now trade Perrect because you got DuPont? Like, yeah. Not that I don't think I'd want them to do that, but it's like you now have that option of like we got this kid who's basically Perrect but better. You could probably be like, okay, yeah, we can look at would a team be willing to take him for a forward, like like kind of like like for fun. Like, I don't think this would ever happen, but like dream world, I think you hit up San Jose and you're like like let's say they don't take a defenseman this year, and they don't trade for one, and the flames and launching a DuPont, it's like correct for me, so what do you say? Like I think the flames would have to add a little bit on their side, but it's like you go, like what would you say to that? You know, yeah, and then you go and you sign McCart anyways.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02That's why I want Colorado to win so bad this year. It's like, oh, I've got nothing left to do here. I can go home, finish the story.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that'll be perfect. Because yeah, I think yeah, they're they're in they're in a really good spot. It's just they need lottery luck, and unfortunately, the way the NHL works and thanks to the orders mostly, like it just you just need luck. Like you look at the red wings we rebuilt, they were so bad for so many years, and they just never got that lottery luck, and they kind of screwed them. Yeah, the Kings too, like they they won byfield and then they made the decision to fast track it, and Turcot was a bust and all that, and like you just need to stay the course.
SPEAKER_02Unlucky with that as well, or development didn't go their way because they had the picks, like yeah, they got byfield at two, Turkot at five, they got Bryant Clark at eight, eight or nine, I want to say. They had picks and but they never got unfortunately when they did get that top two pick, it was in a really weird COVID draft, and yeah, it didn't work out. Like it's crazy that the best player in the draft went one pick after him in Stutzla. I don't know. I think everybody had my throw at a two on their list that year. I know I when I was looking at it, I was like, Yeah, I definitely would have taken him at two as well. Yeah for what he did in the L. But yeah, it is what it is. I'd be okay with another wolf down season, like, you know, hopefully Cooley doesn't play hero and maybe. Maybe you get, you know, maybe you just get some you know, if if it's a year like this year where I don't know, I don't think they got blown out too many times. I I remember the Colorado game close game near the tail end of the year, but they kept everything close and like if that's the case and they're still losing, I think you're and the young guys are producing, you're probably okay with that. Like, oh, like it's you know, they're keeping games close, they're not getting embarrassed, not like Vancouver, where they were getting their shit kicked every night, where whereas I guess I think if you're the flames, you're keeping things close, you get blown out every once in a while because you're not as talented, um, and your young guys are getting better and producing. Like, if Griton goes out next year and has like a 40 or 50 point year and maybe correct as like a 35, 45 point year, and they're really bad, you you look at the year as a success. And then maybe at the end of the year, Reshti comes in and he looks right in place. You're on a good track to be better, but yeah, obviously I you're not really going anywhere unless you get that stud forward, and hopefully they can find it next year or maybe you hope and pray that they're really bad in 28 and they get Maddox Schultz. And then you can really start accelerating things by yeah, it just it feels like this it feels like this should have been the year, or it feels like 2024 should have been that year. Right? Like imagine they had gone celebrities a couple years ago, like how much different are things today, you know. And I feel like that team could have been if they had moved off pieces earlier, like they could have been really bad.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, they could have been. I th I think looking at the landscape, at least I'm like thinking next year, Canucks are really the only team I can say on paper right now is absolutely gonna be worse than the Flames. Like they're gonna be horrendous. Other than that, you look at the teams that finished in the bottom this year, like Chicago is at this point, they're gonna be trying everything they can to get better. Like they they're kind of running out of time here in this this like rebuild. It's time for them to get better. So I think they're gonna be going for it. They're probably gonna try to make some big moves in the offseason to get better. The Leafs are gonna be better once they're just once they have health, add McKenna to that. They're not gonna be in the bottom anymore. Winnipeg, Florida. I don't see them being in the bottom anymore.
SPEAKER_04Like the Rangers, probably.
SPEAKER_00So I think you look at like competition for a bot top three pick. It's like really Vancouver, New York, but even New York, like they've got Tristurkin and they have talent on their team. So like maybe Nashville. I mean, Nashville's probably gonna be pretty bad. St. Louis will probably be bad. But other than that, I think the Flames are definitely in one of the one of the prime pole positions to be a bottom three, bottom five team.
SPEAKER_02So I think some ballparking today, Vancouver probably said his last seven.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, oh they're yeah, they're an absolute nightmare. At least yeah, at least we're not the Canucks, like they're an absolute nightmare. So I think the good news is like it's gonna be interesting to see what happens without the trio they traded from day one, you know, and I can't see Cooley doing what he did this year again. I feel like he takes a step back.
SPEAKER_02So I think unless he comes in, unless he comes in next year and he's better.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, he's even better. He steals Wolf.
SPEAKER_02Then you go, okay, we're we're now we're gonna trade you. Because you're it's reaching.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I was listening to the radio the other day, and there was a uh viewer question like, should the flames look to trade Wolf and give Cooley the starting job? Like, is that the point we've reached insanity in this game base now?
SPEAKER_01I think Cooley's almost 30, too. Like he's not.
SPEAKER_00He might be 30, honestly.
SPEAKER_01He's 28. Like he's not necessarily he's not like a prospect.
SPEAKER_00He turns turns 29 in like a week.
SPEAKER_02So yeah, he's on the 25th of May. He's a 97.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, he I still can't believe whenever I look at his hockey DB page, it's like this guy was literally an 800 uh sub-900 goal in the AHL his whole career, and then he comes here and he just looks like a Vesna caliber goalie. And I mean, I guess he he almost got us Gavin McKenna, so I wish he would have been just a little bit better and maybe stolen us one more game. But yeah, it's I think next year there's optimism that they're gonna be near the bottom. And I think other than Vancouver, the Flames are to me the second worst team in the league heading into next year. But again, with so many young guys, you don't know who's gonna take a step, whatnot. That's maybe a one of the concerns. Versus like a Rangers team that's just a bunch of veterans who just don't care. So that that's probably you know better for a tank. But as good as Zayn Preck is and Gritton, I don't think they're good enough to will a team with Morgan Frost as their one C to the mushy middle, hopefully. So yeah, we'll see what happens.
SPEAKER_02I can't see them being all that great with Frost as their one C and Strome as their two C, and you know, who I assume will also be another guy that they look to flip.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, Mata like there's no way oldie Matt is putting up near a point per game like he did to close up this season again. Like not a chance. So yeah. Lots of optimism there that these guys take a step back, I think.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and we'll see. Again, hopefully next year they can find some consistency in losing and win. Or you know what? Maybe they gotta finish like 10th last and hope they win a freaking lottery. Yeah, because clearly that's what you have to do. Because like people forget like Utah jumped from 14 to 4 last year. Yeah, and they're really good team. Like they didn't make the playoffs, but like you can tell like the upside is there. Coolie, Gunther, all those guys, and it was you know, uh, they move from 14 to 4 and they get Zeno EA. Maybe they just maybe they do gotta be like like ninth. I just hope win a lottery.
SPEAKER_00That would be classic with the flames.
SPEAKER_02They would just literally they will it'll be the year they like miss the playoffs by like a point, and then they'll jump from 16 to 6.
SPEAKER_00It'll be like two years from now when the new arena is open, and we're just like accepting we're not getting a top pick. Let's try to make the playoffs, they'll barely miss, and then they'll just win a lottery.
SPEAKER_02Win a lottery and they they move they move up to sixth overall, and it's like, oh, we got our guy.
SPEAKER_00Back to six.
SPEAKER_02And then that's when we'll be happy to picking sixth.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. Yeah, that's just the flames away, exactly.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. Anyway, I don't uh do you have you have anything uh less to add before we we call it?
SPEAKER_00No, I think that's good. I think we stayed under an hour, not bad. It's pretty good.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I'll just hit hit the outro and then we're we're good to go.
SPEAKER_02I thought we all we always do this to Bill where we just go, we're going and then oh, okay, what's ended up?
SPEAKER_00I guess we stopped now. Let's add this outro. Bill edited up. He's got a bunch of free time. What does he do in his free time? Come on. Anyways, um, all right. Thanks again, everybody, for listening us to us uh Rambo the pains and uh sorrow of being a Flames fan. Hopefully, uh next time we're talking to you, a little more happy news post draft. But uh thanks again for listening. Make sure to like, subscribe, uh, follow along on your podcast platform of choice, and we'll catch you in the next one.
SPEAKER_01I forgot.