Respect My Work Box

Somewhere between rise and grind and “protect your peace,” Hustle Culture, the girlboss startup era, went from motivational to mildly humiliating.

We talk about what actually happened… and the difference between real hustle and corporate nonsense.

And for the love of God… no buttholes at work.

Transcript

Surprise Mail And Embroidery

Kelly 0:02

Okay, what did you want to talk about? [Um, okay.] I got a thing in the mail.

Kristin 0:10

We don't know. Is this like surprise mail? What is this?

Kelly 0:12

I I bought it.[Oh.] Are they dipping on? I'm dipping nuggets you've never heard of into sauces you could never understand. It's embroidery. Etsy.

Kristin 0:28

I love that.

Kelly 0:29

That's great, isn't it?

Defining Hustle Culture Versus Hustling

Kristin 0:30

I'm gonna have to get one of those send it to me.

Kelly 0:47

Define hustle culture.

Kristin 0:50

You define hustle culture.

Kelly 0:52

I think my hustle culture is probably different than what I think hustle culture probably is. I believe that you should work for what you want. I believe hustling, I'm not gonna scam anybody, not scamming, but hustling for what you want is generally a good thing. I don't think that that's hustle culture. And I still don't even think that this is exactly what people think of as hustle culture. But when I hear hustle culture, I think of the corporate undertones, like the startup, like 2007 to 2000.

Kristin 1:27

That's what I'm talking about. Yeah.

Kelly 1:28

Six teen.

Kristin 1:28

It was just the same like girl boss.

Kelly 1:30

Startup Bro, like we all belong to the company. We're like a family, like we're all doing things, and you're you're not doing anything together. It's just not [you're working.] You're working, and I believe working is transactional. I believe I give you work, you give me money. That's just this is the relationship we should have. But I believe in working hard for growth, for what you want, for yourself and for your job. I believe in that type of hustle. But I don't know if I believe in hustle culture because I think it was like a hallmark thing, like it was corporate BS spun up.

Kristin 2:06

I I think what started as like a honest movement got swept up in the corporate vernacular and like used against the employees.

Kelly 2:17

Do you think hustle culture and girl boss, is girl boss culture is the same thing? [Mm-hmm.] You do.

Kristin 2:23

Yeah, I mean it's all like if you work a hundred hours, then you'll you know start something great.

Kelly 2:29

Girl boss culture or is girl boss culture like don't back down in a room and don't other things.

Kristin 2:36

There is that kind of feminist quality to girl boss, which I think is separate than the idea of like if you just outwork everybody, then you are on top. Which like I I think there there is a glimmer of a mirror in there. [Go ahead.] From from what I remember, like like give me grace, because it's been you know, since what 2010, you know? So I mean it's gonna be

Kelly 3:01

So many years ago. [It's just like sixteen years ago.] Decades and decades. I guess it's almost like [sixteen years ago.] Uh back in the 2010s. Exactly

Kristin 3:10

Thank you. [The teen times.] The teen times, but it it was like if if you just push yourself to do more, you will get more. To me, that's untrue because you've simplified it to a degree that it doesn't work anymore.

Kelly 3:26

I can attest to it being at the its core untrue because I feel like that's how I operated. [Yeah.] And just because you work hard doesn't mean you get anything. And that's okay. And sometimes it's okay, and sometimes you have to learn that lesson, and in other times it's unfair. You also, I think you have to learn how to work hard, but you have to learn how to be strategic and effective. You you have to know how to work hard, but then you have to evolve that into working smart. And that sounds really cliche, but strategic visibility and effectiveness with the path that you want to go down, I think is equally, if not more important than purely working hard. [Well, yeah.] I'm learning this right now.

Learning Work Ethic Young

Kristin 4:10

Like you said, I I think the lesson of working hard is a very important lesson for everyone to learn that A, they can do it. [We've had to work since we were 13 years old. We've worked our whole lives.] Yes. And in some jobs, I've put in a lot of extra hours and a lot of extra work to specifically get nothing. I understand that. But what I don't regret is proving to myself that I can put extra reps in. I can put extra work in. Yes, at the end of that specific tenure, I got absolutely zero bubkiss for the things that I put on. In fact, like I got less than bubkiss, but I proved to myself that it's something that I can do. Knowing that you can do it is an important lesson.

Kelly 5:00

Yeah, I think everyone should start working hard. Like, I think that it was good that we had to work for the things that we wanted when we were young. Like I had to work at the barn to have a horse, and while that seems privileged, and it was. But dad and mom made me work off half of everything that it cost. But I was up at 3 a.m. and I went to the barn and I shoveled poop, and then I went to school, and then I went back to the barn and I shoveled more poop. And like I was there every day.

Kristin 5:29

It sounds, it sounds privileged, but I mean like grounded in the fact that we were solid middle class 90s family. Like you you didn't like walk out of your your

Kelly 5:41

No, there were people with way more money than me and way nicer horses than I did.

Kristin 5:45

Yes.

Kelly 5:46

I got the the horse off the track who wanted to kill me.

Kristin 5:49

Oh Springer. But it's so true. I wouldn't even get on that horse. I was like, I'll go, I'll go crazy another horse. Thank you. It's crazy. But I think I think the thing is like horses were your thing, right? Like, what would your thing have been softball or track or like like whatever? I'm just trying to think of other things that we did. Like, but like horses in the barn were the thing that you wanted, and that's the thing that they our parents put money into. But it was always told to us the minute you stop working at the barn is the minute you stop having a horse. So, like if you want it, we will put money into it, but you will put time and effort.

Kelly 6:36

You will put time and effort, and and also not just working to have it, but you have to get better. [Yes] you have to be better every time you do something, it has to be better than the last time you did it.

Kristin 6:47

Yes.

Kelly 6:48

And you know, I was never the I was never gonna be in the Olympics. Like, I wasn't the world's best equestrian. [I don't even think that was] I was the world's best barn worker for sure. Yeah, like I really good at it.

Kristin 7:00

I don't even think that was their point. I think their point was the minute you fight me about going, or you don't wake up to go the next day, all of it goes away. [Yeah] that was a good lesson.

Kelly 7:11

Yeah, and then and then from there, I think we always had jobs. We had weird jobs, we had lots of jobs, we had job, and you know what I know how to do better than anything?

Kristin 7:20

Get a job.

Kelly 7:21

Get a job. I know. I like it is a skill unto itself. Yeah, I can write a resume, like no one's flipping business. I had side hustles getting other people jobs, like I am like a I don't know what the word I don't want to use guru, but I can't use guru a pro.

Kristin 7:36

Yeah, like professional.

Kelly 7:38

Very basic word. I'm a professional job getter. Technically, I want to be better. That that's so basic.

Kristin 7:46

I love how angry you are about the word professional.

Kelly 7:49

But I want a better word. I want a better word. I want

Kristin 7:52

what's guru? Like why can't you use guru?

Kelly 7:54

Because it's appropriation. Okay, they're like a religious figure. [Yeah, yeah, yeah.] But I'm I'm that good. Whatever that is.

Kristin 8:03

That that's not culturally appropriated. Yeah, okay. All right, I got you. I got you.

Kelly 8:07

I'm good at it. You know I'm good at it. [You are good at it.] I got a dollar for every hour you worked for about three years.

Kristin 8:13

At where?

Kelly 8:14

Whatever. At Microsoft or something. [Oh, really?] Yeah, because I got you, because I referred you, and that's every hour you worked, I got a dollar. [You owe me money. Like, wait, that's like] dollars from I'm a hustler, baby.

Kristin 8:30

Do you know what the shitty thing is? It's like we lived together during that time too. No, wait, we didn't. [I'm not gonna give you my dollars.] I know, but you didn't even tell me. Like you kept it like a [I told you just don't remember it.] Like a little golem. You like like like a like a dragon with a horde of dollars. You just kept them in your

Kelly 8:45

okay, yeah, because I had so much money. Such a rich bitch. With my dollars?

Kristin 8:56

Oh my goodness.

Kelly 8:58

I did have I have a lot I had a lot of people siphoning me money.

Kristin 9:01

Well, that's good though. Being able to hustle when you need to, I think is the is is the thing that like quote unquote hustle culture was missing. It was just

Kelly 9:12

Yes, it was missing the hustle.

Kristin 9:14

Well, I don't think it was to it was toxic culture. It was like, you know,

Performative Offices And Forced Fun

Kelly 9:18

it wasn't work hard or work smart. It was like performative. [Yes.] Just be here. [Yes.] And eat the pizza in the break room with all the other pizza users.

Kristin 9:29

You remember like that the the it was around the same time that businesses or corporations were were starting to do those like like really like weird thing. They they were like, we put a mini golf like course, like through the like through all the desks. You can play mini golf through people's desks. Yeah, and it's like, no, I don't, I don't want to play mini golf through people's desks. I remember I had this one job, um, it was advertising agency, and like they all would go for like pizza and beer in the middle of the day for like lunch, and they'd all be gone for like two and a half hours, and I was like, not interested. I'm gonna sit at my desk and I'm gonna do my job, and like it's during the day, and it's like, I don't want to be here until eight o'clock at night. I want to go home. The like executive producer or whatever she was took me out. She was like, one day, she was like, I just you and I should go out to lunch. And I was like, Okay. And she took me to that fucking pizza place that I didn't want to go to. I don't want I don't want pizza in the middle of the day. I'm gonna be sleeping for the last half of the day.

Kelly 10:27

I hate pizza.

Kristin 10:27

I love pizza, but like not for lunch. Like, I I not when I have work to do. Like I I need to sleep pizza off, okay? I don't want beer, but we sat down and whatever, and I remember she told me that I didn't, she's like, you know, you don't really fit in here. And I was like, excuse me, and she's like, Well, you know, we all go out and like hang out together and blah blah blah, and you don't. And I'm like, okay, but are you talking about my work product? Like, like what I do for the company? Well, no, you're great at that, but you don't fit in with us, so I have to go eat pizza and beer to make you feel better so that I can fit in.

Kelly 11:06

That's hustle culture.

Kristin 11:07

Exactly. Yeah, like it's so toxic.

Kelly 11:10

Yes, it's it's you need to be one of us.

Kristin 11:15

Yeah, which is so weird.

Work Box Boundaries And Authenticity

Kelly 11:16

It's not work hard. It's not work hard because I know how to work hard. You know how to work hard. There are very few people in this world that can outwork [either one of us.] Yeah. So in the probably in the middle of that that time that you're referencing, I had to do this like corporate morale thing where they hired these improv people.

Kristin 11:39

Oh, I remember that. Like that I I didn't do what you did, but I remember that like kind of like craze.

Kelly 11:44

So there's there were these two people that came in and they were telling everybody that no one should everyone should come to work as their authentic selves, and everyone, you shouldn't come in a work box. And I totally believe in workbox. I believe however you come to work however you want to, but I believe that you should also leave room for people who have work boxes. This is as much as you get from me. You see what's on the outside of the box. There's lots more of me on the inside of the box, but work sees the outside the box. Wait, there's more. And so, and then they had us go through all of these weird exercises. And at one point, the girl was like, Okay, so everyone get really big and then everyone suck in like a butthole, and then get really big and suck in like a butthole. And I was like, I am not, I don't want to hear the word butthole at work. I don't want to make my face like a butthole at work. I want no part of this right now. I have a work box and you are violating it. Do not say the word butthole to me at work. Don't make me look like a butthole, don't make me act like a butthole. I want no part of this. And I just left. I just left. And I was like, this is the wrong atmosphere. Like, this is no, there are no buttholes at work. No one has a butthole. We don't think about people's buttholes. We don't there are no buttholes at work.

Kristin 13:13

You got me off guard of that one. I'm crying.

Kelly 13:17

I can't believe I've never told you that. [No,] like in like a butthole. An actual butthole.

Kristin 13:25

But like that's so absurd that it's almost like it it was planned. It was planned to be

Kelly 13:31

I wanted to crawl in my workbox all the way. [Okay. Am] I'm not shy. I'm not a shy, I just have no

Kristin 13:39

I don't have time for that. It's that there's an absurdity to that. That's like I mean, bringing up work boxes, it's not that it's it's not that I don't want people to be authentic. I do. I do want people to be authentic. I am authentic, but I am not so authentic that my authenticity overshadows everybody else that I have to work with. And it's okay to to like decorate that workbox however you want to decorate that workbox, but there should be parameters that you are like, okay, this is who I am at work. There is a Krissie who shows up with her friends, and then there is a Krissie who shows up with her grandparents. How you act to it, you adapt how you act. [In context.] In context with where you are. You don't have to be a different person, but you show up differently.

Kelly 14:34

Yeah.

Kristin 14:35

Depending on where you're at.

Kelly 14:36

Because of respect. The I think the the biggest thing about the workbox also for me was that in that particular time, you had to be specifically a certain kind of authentic, and there was no room to be, well, I I have I'm a little bit more guarded. I don't say butthole at work. I I'm not comfortable allowing you all access to me as a human until we're friends, and not everyone is going to be my friend, and that's okay. That and that is also authentic. Those are also authentic feelings. That's also showing up authentically. I am allowed to have boundaries because I am a different type of person.

Sexism And Bro Culture Lunches

Kristin 15:22

The only caveat I have to that is everybody is allowed to have their boundaries. There are certain boundaries that everyone should have, so as not to brush up against other people's boundaries. [Like you can't grab other people.] That would be a boundary, yes. [That's a boundary.] I know when I think back of like some of the crap that went on at some of the jobs

Kelly 15:44

that my first job in advertising, it was my copywriting partner and I were only two women. Our nicknames were tits and heels. I was tits. She was heels.

Kristin 15:56

She did have long legs. [She did have long legs.] Yeah. Like a like [Yeah, like a giraffe.] Like a well, that's a neck, but she's like a like a gazelle. I was gonna say gazelle.

Kelly 16:05

Giraffes have long legs. They have long legs and long necks. They have short bodies, short little bodies. I have never thought about that before. I bet you giraffes' necks are as long as their legs.

Kristin 16:15

I do not think so.

Kelly 16:16

I think so.

Kristin 16:17

I don't think so.

Kelly 16:18

I think so. We'll look it up later.

Kristin 16:20

Okay.

Kelly 16:21

We'll come back to that. I mean, on- I know the last time I was called tits at work, it certainly wasn't work from home. That's why I tell you that.

Kristin 16:28

No, because now everybody's recorded,

Kelly 16:31

haven't been poured, Jaegermeister down my throat, haven't you?

Kristin 16:34

Not not that I it's not that I had to put up with it. It wasn't directed at me. It was like every every every woman in in that in wherever I was had to put up with it. [Because you had to hustle stuff.] You had to, you had to like be away. Putting myself up on some sort of like I dealt with other things that other people didn't have to deal with. I learned a lot from it. It was almost like this is the culture, and if you want to be here, you have to put up with it.

Kelly 16:59

Hustle culture.

Kristin 17:00

Oh my god, it was.

Kelly 17:00

Yeah, you have to hustle. You have to like [no one could bother you.] I have to assimilate to this and like be a part of it so that I can move forward.

Kristin 17:13

I never equated the hustle culture thing to like like what like to what we're talking about now, but I can see where kind of.

Kelly 17:23

Yeah, because you had to be a part of the thing.

Kristin 17:25

That one startup that I worked for, I was the only girl there. Everybody else was men, and they watched Game of Thrones during lunch break. Uncomfortable.

Kelly 17:40

And they didn't turn it off.

Kristin 17:42

No. I would go out if I could go out, but we also worked in a place in downtown Seattle. Um there was no, like there was like a bagel place across, and you can only eat so many bagels. Um, and like you couldn't like eat it at the bagel place, you'd like take it. So like was it sit on the street corner and eat a bagel like an urchin while they while they watched like people doing it upstairs or whatever? Like, no. So like it was it was super uncomfortable, and like I I I hope they look back on that time and go, ooh, bad choice.

Kelly 18:18

They don't they don't look back on that time, they look back on that time and think, wasn't Game of Thrones lunch great? Remember when we used to watch Game of Thrones at lunch? And that girl used to leave all the time.

Kristin 18:30

Lunch 30 minutes max,

Kelly 18:32

Harry Potter, great,

Kristin 18:33

sure, sure, sure, sure. Or just or just talk. Maybe just talk. How's how's your wife doing? How's the child? How's what's going on with your life? Like, just like get to know people on a personal level instead of like, hey, you know that incestuous brother-sister duo? Let's turn that on. I'm a fan of Game of Thrones, just not at lunch, not on not on lunch break.

Kelly 18:55

You even read it.

Kristin 18:56

I did, I did. I read I read up to a certain point. I did not read it. I don't think you needed to read past. No, no, I I read up to the last. I don't think I read. [You did the last book] Dance with Dragons, yeah.

Kelly 19:07

But the only reason I followed that show is because I watched the first season with you.

Kristin 19:10

Oh, I well, watched is a heavy word that I don't know. We we paused it more often because it was a lot too. Who's this? What are they doing? Why are they over here? Who's that? Why is he riding a horse? Wait, is that the same guy as before? No, it's a different guy. Whose son is that? What who's what whose dad is that? Why are they down south? What's this? Why is he where's the wolf? Why is that wolf? Is that the same wolf

Kelly 19:35

Where's Carl?

Kristin 19:36

Where's where's Carl Dogo? Yeah, I remember that. Yeah, that was

Kelly 19:41

because there's a lot of context you don't get if you don't read the books.

Kristin 19:45

No, I mean it's heavy. I mean the those those books are thousands. [There's a lot going on.] Over a thousand pages in each book. It's it's a heavy heavy thing. You did. You did, you had me. [Yeah.] Because I did read those books because I'm a nerd.

Kelly 19:58

I'm a nerd too. I just don't like to read that books that big. I did read Mists of Avalon.

Kristin 20:04

That was a big book.

Kelly 20:05

That was a big book. That's probably the biggest book I've ever read. [It was a good book.] Until at the end it got kind of sad.

Kristin 20:12

I mean, wasn't it kind of sad the whole way through?

King Arthur Clans And Other Detours

Kelly 20:15

It was like fantasy sad. It was like fantasy sad until the end where it was like everyone turns into mist. I don't know.

Kristin 20:22

Oh my god, it's been it's been a long time since I've read that.

Kelly 20:24

But it was about it was about our ancestor.

Kristin 20:27

Oh my goodness, don't even start that on King Arthur. And how much did you pay to the online clan McArthur

Kelly 20:35

Like $30? Like $30. But it's not the online clan of being King Arthur, it is the MacArthur clan, son of Arthur, who is King Arthur. It's all it's real right there. It's just history.

Kristin 20:51

And all you had to do is pay $39.99.

Kelly 20:53

No, no, no. I didn't pay $39 to be a son of Arthur. I paid $39 to join Clan MacArthur. And we happen to be and [they just have me a little book.] I just so I paid the money.

Kristin 21:13

Did you get a tartan too, or no?

Kelly 21:15

No. No. I tried to find a tartan when we were in Scotland, but apparently MacArthur doesn't exist there. [Really?] Yeah. I walked all up and down every Scottish tartan shop in Edinburgh. I looked in every single one. I looked in every book. I asked every Scottish person.

Kristin 21:34

You know what's really funny is when we were in Bath, they had a whole store of tartans. And I I went in there and I I bought a tartan, but for somebody else. And you know what? I didn't even look for our own last name.

Kelly 21:44

Probably wouldn't find it. It's but it's because we're so mystical.

Kristin 21:48

I guess you did say we turned into mist at the end.

Kelly 21:50

Yeah. [So] divine beings. Yeah, I've been obsessed with King Arthur.

Leading Others Without Burnout

Kristin 21:54

Yeah, I know. Long time.

Kelly 21:57

What else did you have to say about hustle culture?

Kristin 21:59

Like it's Not it's not a bad thing. And I don't think it ever really went away.

Kelly 22:03

It's not a bad thing. Now that I'm a leader, it makes me cringy. And I'm working on this with my coach, is like learning how to be an expert and like being okay with it. But now that I'm a leader, I teach it to other people. Learn how to work hard first. [Yes.] It doesn't mean you have to work to the bone. It doesn't mean you have to like kill yourself. It doesn't mean that you are burned out, but it means that you know how to work hard because hard working hard means that you know how to solve problems. And that's what I think that gets you. You know how to get yourself out of places. You know how to like go to the next thing. You know how to get yourself unblocked. You you have seen all of that stuff when you work hard. I also believe everyone should work at the mall. That's a whole another topic. Or a restaurant or Barnes and Noble. But when you learn how to work hard, you have then seen a lot of different types of work. And then you can learn how to work smart. And then you can learn how to work strategically. And then you can learn how to like branch out on your own or do all of the other things that you want to do. And that's growth. That's hustling is learning how to scale your influence, learning how to be bigger, learning how to do more by not necessarily having to do it all. But that is not what hustle culture taught anyone or wanted anyone to do. It wanted people to work to the bone, even though the people who were saying hustle, hustle, hustle were not working to the bone.

Kristin 23:30

Without any real payoff.

Kelly 23:31

Yeah. [It wasn't a bout.] You didn't get anywhere.

Kristin 23:34

Because I think like to take the idea of working hard, like there are there are times to apply that working yourself up to the point of exhaustion. Like, like not crossing over into the completely exhausted and depleted territory, but like up to the point where you're like, I am at capacity and I'm gonna work at capacity for an extended period of time. I guess that's what I mean when I say work hard. You're like, this is as far as I can go, and and I'm going to continue to hold this limit for an extended period of time when I'm working. Prove to yourself you can do it. And once you learn all of the things that you're going to learn by doing that, you get to the strategic level of like, okay, now I have to pull this tool, this hard work tool, out of my toolbox and extend myself for either things that you want to build for yourself, or maybe it's I want to get to the next level of my job, like like pull this tool out of my toolbox and and strategically plan it to get to that next level. Um I think there's times to use that tool, but I think you have to make that tool first.

Kelly 24:45

T he flip side of that and the anti-culture to that was wellness culture, like self-care culture.

Kristin 24:53

Well, I I think the anti to hustle culture was kind of like the the quiet quitting that we saw, and the the the type of thing that was like, don't work hard, don't extend yourself, don't put in the hours, like only do the bare minimum, um, which I don't think is correct, especially when you're starting out. I think there are times when you can pull back and and have more time for yourself and and strategically be like, I am going to do less than I was doing, and maybe more in another part of my life. And I think that's okay. We have to have

Kelly 25:29

there's climbs and plateaus, and sometimes there's drops. [Yes.] And then you gotta climb and plateau again.

Kristin 25:35

Yeah. So I I don't want to say that that is not a thing you should ever do, but I don't think you should ever aim to do the least amount that I can possibly do and still keep my job. I don't think that's fulfilling for you, and I don't think that's a good strategy for you either to move.

Kelly 25:50

No, but I do think that was under the guise of self-care.

Wellness Culture As Hustle Culture

Kristin 25:54

Yes. That's where I was coming back to the wellness thing. But I also feel though that wellness culture that we see even today, like, does it not feel to you like maybe it's just the same? Y

Kelly 26:06

eah, it's hustle, hustle, and be better. It's I was listening to this lady, I think she's got a lot of good things to say, but it it just hit me after a couple minutes of listening to her talk when she was like, You need a hundred grams of protein a day, and you need this much water, and you need to be doing this much exercise and these types of exercises. And if you don't do this, then you're not gonna and I was like, lady, like lady, like, like lady, like shh, I can't do a hundred grams of protein a day and all like a thousand grams of fiber and like of pop creatine, like milk, and I can't like I can't do no, and it's not healthy mentally because I all that's doing is more, it's all it's more work. Yeah, I can't do more work. Sometimes I just have to sit back and be like, what is the most important thing right now? Maybe I'm just gonna eat bread today, and that's gonna be okay because you know what will kill me faster than uh not having 100 grams of protein stress.

Kristin 27:08

Yeah, 100%, yes. Stress, stress will will take you out much faster than anything else.

Kelly 27:15

Yes, calcify your little grinch heart.

Kristin 27:19

With with the wellness thing that I I don't think we had in the rise of the the hustle culture movement, I think with wellness culture, there's an extra layer of like everybody's fucking selling you something. Yeah, you need fiber. Here's my fiber supplement, and it's like I can I just go to get Meta musical at Walmart [like Metamucil works just fine,] and you need to eat all fiber all day long. You're like

Kelly 27:49

then you know what happens? Then you need to eat all the Miralax all day long because you are blocked up. You are your butthole is squeezed right.

Kristin 28:02

You're sucking in like the butthole. I just drooled on myself. But but but seriously, I I think I think there is that there's a certain layer now to in and specifically to wellness that's like everybody has a freaking product to to peddle on you, and it's like, okay, should I be doing all of this stuff? Or are you just telling me that because you're pushing your shit at me? But

Kelly 28:30

and it's all good information, [yeah.] It's good to know how much protein I should potentially eat. It's good to know how much fiber might be might or may not be good for me. It's good to know all of these things, but but to your point, it is not put forth as information, it's put forth as hustling. Yes, as a as a product placement. As a product play, everyone's got a side hustle to sell you their cow-squeezed tablets, you know, like where they squeezed the cow out back and they added all the protein to some little tablet, and you're supposed to rub it on your face, and you know, and then you will look like you're 35 when you're 70. You know what I you know what I appreciate, I think, is grandma. Grandma was ahead of her time as far as wellness went. But what grandma taught me in the most aggressive way possible, she was very aggressive about health, but it was do what works for you. She tried different things, she like put things together, she learned from old ways, she learned from new ways, but she did what worked for her. And I I appreciate those lessons because it was like, I don't want to eat garlic in vanilla yogurt, it worked for grandma, but I do drink apple cider vinegar like it's going out of style when I'm sick and it makes me better. I figure out like what works for my body. Like when I was vegan, I blew up like 35 pounds. As soon as I started eating meat again, I became normal size. Grandma did what worked for her, and I think that's a part of the wellness culture and also hustle culture that's missing is that message of this is information. Take in and like experiment and do and and find your own way forward.

Kristin 30:36

Be wary of anyone who talks in absolutes. There is nothing, there is no product, there is no um amount of protein, there is no um hours of work that you have to put in that is the same for everybody to get to the same place. It doesn't, that's not how it works. There is a lot about your life that is trial and error, and getting through that yourself will teach you a lot more than any anybody else can about your life. Even even the amounts of effort that you put into things will be different than other people. Um, some things will come easier to you and some things will come harder to you, and like that's okay.

Run Your Own Race

Kelly 31:19

You know what helped me a lot? That was several years ago. But my father-in-law, who's a very successful person, said I never looked at anyone else around me and looked at where they were getting to. I ran my own race and got to the places I wanted to get to. And I did that. My I did that a lot. Like I looked around and I was like, oh, that person got promoted before me. And they didn't work as hard as me in my perception. That person got these things, that person is getting these projects. I should get those things because I'm working my butt off. But that stuck with me. It took me a long while to like actually implement that into my routine. But it is something that like I look at now. If someone else gets a promotion, I'm like, meh, my mine will come or it won't. But I'll find my own way forward because it's not supposed to be me. That job wasn't supposed to be mine. But the things I get, they're not getting. The things I want or or should have, no one else should have. They're mine.

Kristin 32:23

The the comparison game is the worst way to judge yourself with with anything with work culture or or like the hustle part or even the wellness part. It's it's not a comparison game. Like I can lift weights till I'm blue in the face, but my body's only gonna look the way my body's gonna look. Like, like I'm not gonna change.

Kelly 32:46

You're not gonna look like a giraffe.

Kristin 32:48

No, no, I'm I'm not gonna look like a 5'10 model, no, no matter what I do. I'm I'm five five on a good day. That's okay. Like, like you said, you have to run your own race, you have to feel good about yourself. Um, and so like even playing the comparison game, which I I did younger, um, like like like like moving away from job space and just talking about the wellness space, I did play the comparison game with myself, and it was like I was never thin enough, or I was never this enough, or I was, you know, like like it no, you're never gonna be. You're gonna be you.

Kelly 33:21

Yeah, and they're never gonna be you. You're special too.

Kristin 33:26

You're a snowflake,

Kelly 33:27

you're a snowflake. I hate it.

Kristin 33:29

But like in in but the effort that someone else puts in will get them the results that it gets them. The effort I put in will get the results that it gets me. And those results can be can be equal or greater to theirs, but it's all gonna be different and the and the results are gonna be different. And I can be happy. Like, I think not doing the comparison thing and in and what your father-in-law was telling you about work is like be happy with the race that you're running, compare yourself to yourself, get better every day for for yourself. Like, I'm better, I'm a better me. I don't have to be a better you, I have to be a better me.

Kelly 34:10

I have to be a better me. I have to compete with myself,

Kristin 34:12

yes. Because then you're actually comparing apples to apples. I guess that's what I'm trying to say is you're comparing apples to oranges when you look at someone else. [Yes.] In in in doing whatever, and it's like you're you're not getting a true reading on where you're at. You can't calibrate your own life based off of someone else's life because two different things.

Kelly 34:32

It's two different things. Yeah, the universe wants different things for different people,

Kristin 34:37

yes, and that's good. That's a good thing. If you would have gotten one of the promotions that you saw someone else get, you might not be where you're at today.

Kelly 34:46

Like this, I might not be sitting here doing this, right? I might be on a flipping call on a Sunday afternoon wondering what the hell am I doing this for? Right. But that's perfectly fine for other people. They want to be doing that. Right. That's their race, that's what they're good at. I'm good at it too, but I don't want to anymore.

Kristin 35:06

And and that is where you're taking control of your race.

Kelly 35:11

My hustle.

Kristin 35:12

Right. But I mean, like, I laugh, but it's true though. Like you do, you do, you do have to hustle, and you do, but you should control. It should be the hustle, your hustle. It's not everyone's hustle.

Kelly 35:24

I love the word hustler. Like I would I would get a grill that said hustler, and I really wanted to watch that movie J Lo did, because I love J Lo and I love the word hustler. I think it was called Hustler.

Kristin 35:39

I think so. I couldn't see it.

Kelly 35:41

It wasn't it wasn't the movie I wanted it to be. End of story.

Kristin 35:46

I didn't see it, so I can't add anything. I don't know. I never saw it.

Getting Kicked And Learning Anyway

Kelly 35:50

And then maybe that's it. Like I love the hustle. I love working hard. But what I've learned is I want to point that that energy at the things that I truly want to get something out of. Because when you when I've pointed it at the things that I it that aren't for me, or the things that I think I want or or think I should want, is when it doesn't go so well. My path when I was 25 is current is not the path that I am currently. My path five years ago isn't the path that I am currently on. I never would have imagined that I'd be sitting here on a couch with a microphone. With a microphone saying literally anything. I thought that I would be, I was a worker. I was a worker bee. I was gonna work for people, and like that's what I was really good at, and I loved it. I love working. I love working. It is my hobby, it's what I do, it's who I am. I will work until I sleep and then I will get up and I work some more, and that's what I love doing. But I want to do it in a different way now than I ever thought that I would want to do it before.

Kristin 37:02

But I think I think you had you had to be here now in this moment to get there. Yeah. To get to that point where you're where you are now strategically placing where to put your work.

Kelly 37:15

And I had to get kicked in the butthole quite a bit.

Kristin 37:20

Puck her like a butthole.

Kelly 37:22

Puck her like a butthole.

Kristin 37:23

How do you not laugh and say that? Like, how do you do that with a straight face?

Kelly 37:26

She would seriously full of strangers. She her face, she saw her face and she sucked her face in. And I looked at her and I was like, yeah, she knows what a butthole looks like. She's doing a pretty good impression right now in a lot of different ways.

Kristin 37:42

I still can't get over that. Like, who hired that?

Kelly 37:47

I almost I almost wrote a letter to HR and been like, I don't need to ever hear the word butthole at work. But I had to get kicked in the butthole a lot, like to to to also figure out where my path wasn't.

Kristin 38:01

But I I also think don't uh like I think people shy away from being kicked, you know? It's like well, I I don't I I don't want to be kicked, but then you don't try. Like then then you have you you have the you have the possibility of not even trying because you don't want to put in effort to something that doesn't pan out, and I think some of the best lessons are some of the most effort that I put into some of the things that panned out the worst.

Kelly 38:26

You know, my favorite horse ever, Finn?

Kristin 38:29

Finn was a great horse.

Kelly 38:30

Finn was a terrible horse. [I loved Finn.] He kicked me three times literally in the kidney, cleaning his stall, and I loved him. I loved that horse. I could not get enough of him. He was my favorite, he's still my favorite, he was beautiful. You know what happened to him? What? He got given to somebody up north to go live a life of luxury on a ranch. He got struck by fucking lightning, died.

Kristin 38:57

Oh seriously,

Kelly 38:59

because he was a butthole.

Kristin 39:02

He was a great horse.

Kelly 39:04

No, he wasn't. He was not, he was not a great horse. No one could ride him, no one could show him. He kicked me literally in the kidney three times. He was a big horse, too. He was a big mammer jammer.

Kristin 39:16

Yeah, he was he was gigantic.

Kelly 39:17

He was giant, yeah, a giant horse, and I loved him so much. Black and white.

Kristin 39:24

Oh lightning, huh? So bad. You know what though? I mean, like if you gotta go out.

Kelly 39:28

Go out with a lightning strike.

Kristin 39:30

Yeah, no, he went out big.

Kelly 39:32

He went out big on the side of a mountain or on a on a hill. Michigan, there's no mountains. There's no mountains in Michigan. There's only the trash hill that you go skiing on.

Kristin 39:42

But do you remember when trash bags would come up when they when they had two inch skiers and there wasn't enough snow and it would get all muddy at the bottom, and then you would start seeing like like like trash would actually. I mean, I didn't ski that as much as you did. Yeah. Yeah, what was it? Mount Holly. Mount Holly. Which was an old Holly. It was an old um landfill. Yeah, it was an old landfill that they put dirt over and then just waited for it to snow in Michigan, and then you could go skiing on it. But like literally, people's literal trash would come out of the bottom of the ship. [Surface like zombies.] Like you would hit your skis, like people would fall all over the bottom. It was terrible. Oh Mount Holly.

Kelly 40:27

Finn was a hustler. Finn was a hustler. He was a gangster, man. He was a gangster. What's the best hustler movie you've ever seen?

Kristin 40:39

Like about like okay, but when you say hustler, do you mean gangster? Do you like you're talking like like movie terms? You

Kelly 40:48

always make me like why do you always make me pare it down to the exact thing? No, what's the b you're what is the best hustler movie you've ever seen? Show, movie, show, movie, character.

Kristin 41:09

Why do you do this to me? Why don't you just pare it down and tell me?

Kelly 41:12

Movie.

Kristin 41:15

What do you mean by hustler?

Kelly 41:17

What do you mean by hustler?

Kristin 41:24

Um, okay. Uh there's so many things, right? You like like if if you mean like it could be gangster, it could be a heist. Heist, hustle?

Kelly 41:34

Pick one. Pick one. Just pick one.

Kristin 41:38

But there's a lot that hustler could entail.

Kelly 41:41

Yeah, so pick one. Who's the best one? What's the best, the best hustler movie?

Kristin 41:46

Now you just put you put too much pressure on it. I can't.

Hustlers, Martha Stewart, And Subscribe

Kelly 41:49

Yes, you can. [But I can't because I don't know] you can do it. You can do it. But I don't know what hustler means. It means hustling means. It means it means it means you're a hustler. Here. But I don't know. Look up the what the what the urban dictionary for hustler. I don't want the I don't want Webster. I want urbane.

Kristin 42:10

Okay, hustler in the urban dictionary. A hustler is the way one lives their life. Going out on the streets or wherever, making money and working hard for it. A hustler is not lazy. They're not consistently out earning money. They get the money by using. They get money by using their smarts and out cunning everyone out there. A hustler has ambition and a more serious approach to life than that of a gangsta or a pimp.

Kelly 42:52

Perfect. Okay, so now who's the best hustler? According to that. The best hustler. Oh my goodness.

Kristin 43:10

Amen to that.

Kelly 43:12

But your turn.

Kristin 43:13

I can't get any better than Martha Stewart. Who's more gangster than Martha Stewart? Nobody. Nobody. Nobody. I'm watching her new show. Damn it. I wrote down a bunch of ways for us to say like and subscribe and like, like, but like that were fun. But where did you write them? I don't I can't find them. So just if you like the subscribe, if you don't, that's okay too. Don't do it. It's fine. Um, but if you do, we appreciate it. So I don't know. Do what you want.

Kelly 43:49

Very noncommittal.

Kristin 43:51

Well, I had to read it.

Kelly 43:52

Say it like a hustler. Say it like a hustler. How would how would Martha say it?

Kristin 43:57

Martha wouldn't give you a choice.

Kelly 43:59

Yeah. She'd be like, subscribe.

Kristin 44:02

So do what Martha would do. Subscribe. Like, leave a comment.

Kelly 44:09

A hustler baby. I want you to know. It's not where you've been, but where it's about to go. I thought you were gonna be like, you're about to know. You're about to love me, and I'm gonna show a musler baby. None of those words are right.

Kristin 44:28

Are you sure none of them are right?

Kelly 44:30

Most of them are right, but some of them are wrong.

Kristin 44:32

Do you know the song?

Kelly 44:34

No, that's about all you know. I know it's Jay-Z. Hey Dad, brush your shoulders off. Jigga Man. I could sing it if it was on, I could sing it. If it was on, I could sing it. Most of the words.