Murder in the Dark - celebrating Kerry Greenwood OAM

Summary

In the episode we explore the life, works, and legacy of Australian crime writer Kerry Greenwood OAM,  focusing on her iconic character Phrynne Fisher and her impact on crime fiction and television adaptations.

Key Topics

• Kerry Greenwood's contribution to Australian crime fiction
• The character of Phrynne Fisher and her significance
• The adaptation of the books into the TV series Miss Fisher's Murder Mysteries
• Greenwood's versatility across genres including crime, historical fiction, and young adult
• The social and feminist themes in Greenwood's work

Takeaways

• Kerry Greenwood brought joy and social awareness to crime fiction.
• Phrynne Fisher's character exemplifies modern feminist ideals in a 1920s setting.
• The TV adaptation captured the spirit of Greenwood's work, especially Essie Davis's portrayal.
• Greenwood's background as a solicitor enriched her authentic depiction of legal and moral dilemmas.
• Her work spans multiple genres, showcasing her versatility as a writer.

Books we discussed

• Cocaine Blues
• Flying too High
• Murder on the Ballarat train

Chapters

• Celebrating Kerry Greenwood's Legacy
• The Unique Voice of Kerry Greenwood
• Miss Fisher: A Bold and Stylish Heroine
• Cozy Crime or Something More?
• The TV Adaptation: Bringing Miss Fisher to Life
• Exploring Other Works by Kerry Greenwood
• The Culinary Side of Kerry Greenwood
• Kerry Greenwood's Lasting Impact on Crime Fiction

Resources

• Kerry Greenwood's Official Website
• Miss Fisher's Murder Mysteries (TV Series)
• Cooking the Books (Cookbook)
• A Taste of Murder (Cookbook)
• Miss Fisher's Modern Murder Mysteries (TV Series)

Keywords

Kerry Greenwood, Phrynne Fisher, Australian crime fiction, Miss Fisher's Murder Mysteries, crime series, Australian authors, Melbourne crime stories

Disclaimer

The episode transcripts are auto-generated, and while all efforts are made to ensure their accuracy, there may be some instance of incorrect spelling and/or errors in the accuracy.

Booktopia Affiliate Program

The Kill City Podcast is a part of the Booktopia Affiliate Program, meaning that when you purchase a book from Booktopia using one of the above the links, we get a small commission. Or as they'd say in the crime world, a kick back! 

At the Kill City Podcast we love celebrating and promoting the work of Australian writers, publishers and bookstores, and we hope you do too.

Disclaimer

The episode transcripts are auto-generated, and while all efforts are made to ensure their accuracy, there may be some instance of incorrect spelling and/or errors in the accuracy.

www.killcitypodcast.com.au

Transcript

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Helen 0:00

The Kill City Podcast acknowledges the traditional custodians of the lands we're on. Here in Melbourne, that's the Wurrundjeri Woi Worong people of the Kulin Nation. We honour their deep connection to storytelling, a tradition carried across more than 2,000 generations. Pay our respects to elders past, present, and emerging, and we extend that acknowledgement to First Nations people listening today.

Leigh 0:52

I'm Leigh, and I'm joined by my co-host Helen to talk about all things Australian crime. This episode, we're celebrating the life and legacy of one of Australia's most beloved crime writers, the late Kerry Greenwood. For so many readers, she created an entire world 1920s glamour, sharp-witted heroines, Melbourne lameways, and mysteries full of intelligence and heart. She wrote more than forty novels across crime, historical fiction, science fiction, and young adult. Of course, she's best known for Finey Fisher, the fearless and fabulous detective who brought the 1920s Melbourne to life. Her Carrie Greenwood's storytelling went far beyond the glamour, but her books were rich with compassion, social insight, and a deep love for the city she wrote about. So today we're diving into her remarkable world, the characters, the themes, and the legacy she leaves in Australian crime fiction. Helen, um when you look at Carrie Greenwood's place in Australian crime writing, what do you think made her such a standout voice?

Helen 1:51

Uh hi Leigh, it's great to be back. I think that so many mysteries sort of lean into that darkness. Um, you know, like we talked about in the Peter Temple episode. But Kerry Greenwood, I think, created worlds that were really clever and socially aware, but they never really lost their sense of fun. And the most amazing thing is that she did that over 40 books, which I reckon's extraordinary in itself. And I think what really sets her apart though is how grounded her novels felt. Uh, before she became a a full-time writer, she actually worked as a solicitor and a defence lawyer, and you can really feel that in her work because she really nailed the legal details. Uh, she sort of worked through real moral dilemmas to sort of get us to sort of chew over. Uh, and she also wrote characters with an authenticity that I think sort of came from lived experience. And then, of course, there's Phryne Fisher. Well, I could actually talk about her all day. She's just a hero of mine. I think she was such a breath of fresh air, oh, so bold, so stylish, really sexually liberated, and she was completely unashamed of who she is. And I think what I really liked that Greenwood did was um instead of giving her a backstory sort of built on trauma, she made her really sort of curious and compassionate. And I think that's such a huge reason for why she connected with so many readers, both in Australia and overseas.

Leigh 3:28

Well, I'd love to talk to you about your favourite Kerry Greenwood novel. I think you've already given me a clue. But out of her entire collection, which book or series stands out the most for you and why?

Helen 3:40

Well, not surprisingly, it is actually Cocaine Blues. So that's the first book in the Miss Fisher's murder mystery series. And it's such a strong introduction because you kind of instantly understand who Phryne is and where she's come from. Now, Greenwood makes it clear that she didn't actually grow up with any money. She was actually raised in a really poor, cold household in England and only became a lady after, sort of kind of conveniently, several male relatives died in the war. That's World War I, of course. Uh, but that background, uh, we get the clues that that kind of really shaped her because Finey kind of knows what it's like to go without, and that's sort of the reason why she notices people who are struggling and why she's sort of not afraid to look away and kind of wants to help them. Um, and you see that straight away in the book because she lands in Melbourne and she immediately steps into the lives of people that I think are on the fringes of society. Kind of you get to see sort of people in dangerous situations, working class families, um, those who are living more sort of on the edge. Um, then we're introduced to Dorothy Dot Williams, one of my favourite characters. Um, Dot's kind of becomes her maid and long-term companion, sort of all the books going forward. Uh, and I think it's um what Greenwood does is kind of create this uh ability to see that the character Phryne is able to sort of recognise someone who needs safety and respect. Uh, and then also what Frione does is sort of throws herself then into cases that do involve women that have no power. And I think one of the things I really like about how Frione's character is developed is that it shows a really practical kind of feminism. Uh, it's not about just talking about it. Um, Finey actually sort of gets in there and helps, um, and that's something that I thought was really important to read about. The other thing I really like about the book is it's kind of introduced a number of straw words that we see in all of her sort of briney books going forward. Um, there is, of course, Detective Inspector Jack Robinson, um, his offsider, Constable Hugh Collins, who becomes Dot's sweetheart in later books. Um, and there's also Burton Sess. Uh, she really brings them to life as kind of these two big-hearted kind of warfies who the moonlight as taxi drivers, and occasionally sort of as Phryne's muscle to help her out when she gets into a tight spot. Uh, you know, these characters sort of really work together to sort of bring the book its warmth and sense of community, which is sort of not for that, but then continues. Another thing's Phryneing's sort of um sexual autonomy, and I think that's kind of really important to see from a few female perspective. We're kind of introduced with the fact that she um, you know, she reconnects with an old lover with no fuss whatsoever. She's shown to be openly drawn to another character, Lin Chung, who kind of appears through um sort of a bit of a love interest through the books, but you know, she makes it really clear that she's not interested in marriage or convention. Uh, and and Greenwood has a way of sort of handling this quite lightly, but uh it kind of tells you exactly who she is about a woman who owns her own choices. And you know what, that was actually pretty radical for a character set in the 20s. Um, but I just really like the way it's done. Very, very nicely done. Uh, and then then just beyond that, I just think it was a really good mystery. Tight pacing, sharp dialogue, really clean plot. Um, and the best thing was is you finish the book feeling like you've got these fully palm characters and you've stepped into this world that you just want to keep coming back to.

Leigh 7:19

So that leads me to something that people often debate. Miss Fisher's murder mysteries have been described as cozy crime, which can sound a bit dismissive. How do you see it? Is it cozy or is it something else entirely?

Helen 7:33

That's a very good question. Look, I think Miss Fisher's murder mysteries kind of definitely has cosy elements. There's that kind of glamour and humour, there's sort of not really any graphic violence. Uh, but I wouldn't actually classify it as a traditional sort of cosy crime series because classic crazy crime normally steers clear of kind of any overt sexuality that we've talked about, or sort of strong social commentary. And I think what Greenwood creates in sort of Phryne's word is actually sort of quite a lot of that. Um, she's very politically outspoken. Um, the books don't sort of aren't afraid to explore sort of class and gender of justice in a way that's kind of a bit more sharper than most sort of cozy novels. Uh I actually think it's more cozy adjacent. So I think it gives you kind of does give you that warm comfort feeling. I think Leigh, you've talked about in an episode about, you know, you'd be happy to you call it your chicken noodle soup kind of book. Um, yeah, I think like that. Um bit of bit of two minute noodles, you could definitely call it. But look, um, she talks about um these amazing costumes, there's a really charming sort of ensemble cast, and all the mysteries sort of get really neatly wrapped up, but I think there's just that little bit more bite um in her books and the genre kind of typically allows. So, and look, and I think at the end of the day, that's why her books are so readable. Um, they're cozy, but I think um just that extra bit of sparkle and a bit of modern sensibility that keeps it fresh. Um, and look, for me, you've you call them your chicken noodle soup. I actually much prefer it um sitting up curled on the couch with maybe um a cup of tea or something stronger and um my throw rug, and that's my my perfect idea of self-care.

Leigh 9:26

Now, we've talked about how wonderful Phryne is on the page, but the TV adaptation, Miss Fisher's murder mysteries, really turned her into an international icon. How do you think the series translated the books for the screen? And what was it about Essie Davis's performance that made her Phryneey feel so definitive?

Helen 9:45

Oh my goodness. Well, I think they just nailed it with the TV series. Um, look, I think I could talk about it all day, but for starters, Essie Davis is just extraordinary as Frione Fisher. Like, I think she was made for that role. She just brought such an irresistible mix of charm and elegance and mischief. Um, then there's the chemistry with Nathan Page as Detective Inspector Jack Robinson, and that's just electric. Um, I think that what's interesting is in the novels, um, Phryneine's main romantic partner, as I mentioned, was Lin Chung. So he's a wealthy, well-educated Chinese Australian businessman who sort of often helped her in her investigations, just happened to be a martial arts expert, which you know came in handy in quite a few of the books. Uh, but interestingly, the TV series kind of changed it a bit and it leant into this slow burn kind of will they, won't they tension between Phryne and Jack. Um, and it just worked so well. They uh the TV series managed to really kind of work through the sort of banter, those sort of long glances, sort of all this restraint, um, and that was absolutely delicious to watch. And I think that was one of the big reasons that the show connected so strongly with viewers. And look, I've read some fan wiki pages and just there's just reams of material about how much people love the TV series. But in terms of um, I know Leigh, you talked a bit about um the differences between books and and movies when we talked about Peter Temple. So I was curious about what Terry thought about the shift by making it more about this um unresolved between Phryne and Jack. So I looked up an interview that she did on the ABC. And um, yeah, in the interview she said she was actually completely relaxed about it. She said she actually thought of her characters as her children um and that she really trusted the producers to do them justice, and she was actually really happy for the adaptation to take its own path as long as it's stayed true to the spirit of her world. Um, and I think that's a really generous and open-minded way to look at it. And I reckon she would have been delighted with Miriam Margoyles as Aunt Prudence. So she's a character that isn't in the books at all, uh, but she just really fitted the Miss Universe perfectly. Um Miriam, who's actually living in Australia on a part-time basis, and I think she has done for years, she actually said she loved playing her. She called Aunt Prudence a bit of an old bat. Um, but then you know, she really had a ball filming in all those grand Melbourne locations like Rip on Leigh. So um just an awesome addition.

Leigh 12:36

And the production values on the series were fantastic. The costumes, the cars, the music, and everything looked so lush. And they really made the most of Victoria. As you said, you know, people here instantly recognise places like Ripon Leigh, the Block Arcade, the Royal Exhibition Building, um, University of Melbourne, but they also ventured out into regional Victoria as well. So places like Daylesford and Clunes, Castle maine, and parts of the Mornington Peninsula um gave the show this sort of gorgeous, timeless feel.

Helen 13:07

Yeah, exactly. And I think Visit Victoria would have just loved to have it on their um advertising revenue for sure. Yeah, look, and behind the scenes, I think the scale was incredible. I heard that the production used about, I think, more than 76 vintage cars. There were 700 extras, more than 130 guest actors across the whole series. And the costume designer, Marion Boyce, even sourced original 1920s pieces and hand-dyed feathers to get all the colours exactly right on those amazing costumes that Finey and all the others wear. Look, and I think that's one of the levels of detail that made that world sort of really feel so rich. It kind of brought the books to life in such a wonderful way.

Leigh 13:52

It really does give the whole series that cinematic sheen. You can feel the sort of care that went into every frame. Moving on, Kerry Greenwood wrote across many genres: crime, historical fiction, science fiction, and even young adult. Outside of Phryne, do you have a favourite series or book of hers that shows a different side of her writing?

Helen 14:12

Absolutely. Now, she's look, huge collection of work, and I can't say that I've read all of them, such a wide variety, but I actually really like her Coroner Chapman series. Now that starts with a book called Earthly Delights, and it's sort of set in present-day Melbourne. Look, and Corona is just a really likable character. She's a baker who runs this little shop called Earthly Delights. Um, look, it's situated in a slightly eccentric apartment building. There's a sort of a bunch of oddball characters and neighbours that kind of wander in and out of her life. She's not a thing like finding on the surface, but they share this lovely quality of being deeply compassionate women who really notice people and sort of really just quietly take care of them. So one of the things I really like is Corona kind of keeps stumbling onto mysteries when she's trying to get on with her baking. You know, one minute she's kneading dough at four in the morning, and the next minute she's dealing with a stalker or a runaway teenager or a suspicious death. Um, look, they're really Melbourne, the books, and um, the best thing about them is the really vivid food descriptions that kind of make you hungry while we're eating them.

Leigh 15:20

Now, I I will concede I've not um I'm not familiar with this series. Is it contemporary or is it set in the similar period to Phryne?

Helen 15:30

No, it's contemporary Melbourne. Thanks for the pickup. No, it's pretty good. It's actually a few years ago now, so there's a couple of um there's a couple of things that date it a little bit. I think she sort of talks about concerts like you know Justin Timberlake and um Britney Spears, but it's it's pretty much relatively modern-day Melbourne. So what's really fun is that Greenwood kind of absolutely leans into this cookery side of things. She actually published two cookbooks, Cooking the Books and A Taste of Murder. And she includes recipes that tie directly into the worlds of her novels. So in the Corona Chapman books, especially, she actually gives you the recipes for the bread and muffins and kind of all the meals that Corona makes in the stories. Such a nice touch for how she kind of matches up the fictional world and the and real life.

Leigh 16:20

That is a lovely touch and very clever as well. So would we call this cozy genre?

Helen 16:28

Yes, I think this one would because I think it's a much more gentle series. Uh, we don't get any gore or kind of details about the crimes, um, and I think it just is um more gentle um and even more warm. You don't quite have the same um social commentary that say the Friendy Fisher ones do, uh, a bit, but probably not to the same extent. Uh, but for those who are interested, it still has a bit of spice. There's a really gorgeous Israeli private detector, Daniel, when he enters the picture, um, that makes things even spicier for Coroner.

Leigh 17:07

I I will hand on heart um say I've never been I'm familiar and watched the TV series, um, and I know I did at one point start one of um Kerry Greenwood's Phryne Fisher books, um, which I now feel quite uncomfortable having not really been a big reader of. But I do have in my hand um I think the first three of um the Phryne Fisher books. So they are now going to elevate themselves to the top of my um uh top of my reading pile. So it's the introducing the honourable Phryne Fisher, and it has Cocaine Blues Flying Too High and Murder on the Ballarat Train. So um I am uncomfortable to admit that I've not read much, if any, of her work previously. Um but I am going to elevate that on my reading pile moving forward.

Helen 18:04

You know what? I don't think you need to apologise, Leigh. I reckon we need to be kind to ourselves. We've got a lot of books to read, and we can't we can't read everything, so I reckon we're we're doing okay.

Leigh 18:15

No, I will say, and this is this is more reflective of me, I've I've always been a bit more interested in contemporary set novels, um, with the exception of, you know, sort of reading Chandler and Dashielle Hammett and um uh James Elroy. I've probably not stepped too far into the past, which is a flaw in my reading habits, I will say. So I will um and I was always aware and I'd always known that she was such a well-regarded writer, and I'd known a lot of people that have um have often sprooked her work. So um yeah, I do need to um make sure I do some reading of hers, because I think I would be doing myself a disservice by not doing that.

Helen 18:53

So do yourself a favour, yeah. When you got a minute. They're they're a quick and easy read too. So if you start start with the ones you've got, I reckon that's a good idea. Actually, I would I would probably go the Ballarat train one. Yeah, because I've already told you the plot of cocaine blues.

Leigh 19:09

So Yes, and how could you not um murder on the Ballarat train? I mean, it's like our version of the Orient Express, isn't it?

Helen 19:16

Exactly right.

Leigh 19:18

Now, before we wrap up, a quick heads up to coincide with this episode, Helen has recorded a reading of the first chapter of Cocaine Blues, Kerry Greenwood's very first Phryne and A Fisher novel. You'll find it right alongside this episode, and we'll pop the link in the show notes.

Helen 19:35

Thanks, Leigh. And as we're getting ready to close out today's conversation, I do want to take a moment to acknowledge Kerry Greenwood's passing in early 2025 after a period of declining health. Look, I remember feeling genuinely shocked when the news broke. Uh, you know, just such a loss. Uh, I was really moved by all the tributes that followed. There were readers, writers, actors, fans, you know, everyone came out, you know, telling their stories. Um, they spoke about her warmth, her intelligence, you know, and just the joy that her stories brought into their lives. I think she leaves behind a really extraordinary legacy. She wrote more than 40 novels, you know, there was her much-loved TV series. Um she created this iconic heroine, Briani Fisher, who still feels ahead of her time. Look, there was a feature film, Miss Fisher's and the Crypt of Tears, and even a spin-off TV series called Ms. Fisher's Modern Murder Mysteries. But what really stays with you, I think, is that sense of delight that she brought to crime fiction. Uh, Greenwood showed that the genre can be bold, it can be glamorous, it can also be humane, but it was and also deeply feminist all at once. And even though she's no longer with us, every time someone opens a Phryne A Fisher book, um, Kerry Greenwood's sort of voice and wit and that sense of justice, you know, are there on every page?

Leigh 21:03

No, thanks, Helen. You're absolutely right. And despite me obviously not having read um much in her canon, um, she has clearly had a real and lasting impact. And um it's been fantastic. I've I've learned a lot today, so uh it's been wonderful to look back on the legacy she's created. Um, if you're feeling inspired to read or reread one of her novels or watch the TV series, you'll find everything we've talked about in today's show notes. Now you can follow us on Instagram or Facebook. Uh we'll have a new episode next week. Until next time, we're putting the bookmark back in the book. Take care, happy reading, and we'll see you again soon.