How A Solution-Focused Game Builds Trust And Voice For Students; An Interview with Gesa Doringer

In this Episode of School Solutions Talk, Tara and Vicky have the pleasure of interviewing Gesa Doringer, an experienced Solution Focused practitioner, occupational therapist and trainer from the Netherlands. For the past 18 years she has been working as a Job Coach at the department for Adolescents with Early Onset Psychosis at the Amsterdam University Medical Center. Gesa respectfully witnesses the resilience and solutions of these young people. She admires how they dust themselves off after experiencing mental health problems and dare to focus on their goals and next steps ahead. Experiential learning and game elements are her secret ingredients to hold space for her clients and encourage them to gain new insights and hope. For the past 10 years she has worked as an author and Solution Focused Trainer in Germany, Austria and the Netherlands. In 2023 Gesa published her Solution Focused game, the Mindsetter, which is now played in 29 countries worldwide and implemented in schools in several countries. Today’s conversation with Gesa, highlights how the solution focused Mindsetter Game is making a difference in schools. To learn more about the Mindsetter, go to https://listo-amsterdam.com/the-mindsetter-3/, or email Gesa at info@listo-amsterdam.com. 

THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS:

Work Collaborative, a not-for-profit movement restoring confidence in schools worldwide. Based on the best-selling book Change Starts Here by Shane Leaning and Efraim Lerner, Work Collaborative helps schools lead change from within instead of relying on external solutions. The collaborative’s approach trusts that teachers, leaders, parents and students have the capability to solve their own challenges when given the right support. If you're interested in solution-focused approaches that build internal capacity, join this global movement of educators at workcollaborative.com.

Instructional Coaching Group is the global destination for coaching in education, including instructional coaching and leadership coaching. Led by Dr. Jim Knight, ICG’s work is grounded in more than 25 years of research focused on improving teaching and strengthening leadership, with the ultimate goal of increasing student success. Through research-based learning and consulting, the Instructional Coaching Group partners with schools and systems worldwide to build sustainable coaching practices and programs that support schools. www.instructionalcoaching.com 

The Canadian Centre for Brief Coaching (CCBC) - Founded by Dr. Haesun Moon, is a company based in Toronto, Ontario, Canada.  The CCBC provides competency-based workplace training programs as well as coaching and consulting services to organizations across sectors, both in Canada and across the globe. Since its inception as a research body and think tank comprised of graduate students, subject-matter experts and community partners, the CCBC has evolved to provide programs and services designed  with Solution Focused Coaching as the fundamental framework. Go to: www.pracademia.com 

 Family Based Solutions is a charitable organization based in the UK and founded by Ayse Adil and Joe Lettieri. They offer counselling services, support groups, solution focused training, online support and global leadership. They work collaboratively to end the cycle of abuse in families and to repair relationships.  Using Solution Focused Brief Therapy (SFBT), FBS gives families full control of their healing, alowing families to take small and manageable steps toward their bests hopes. Go to https://familybasedsolutions.org.uk/

Transcript

Sponsors And Opening

SPEAKER_00 0:23

Our sponsor, the Instructional Coaching Group, is the global destination for coaching and education, grounded in more than 25 years of research focused on improving teaching, strengthening leadership, and increasing student success. The Instructional Coaching Group partners with schools and systems worldwide to build sustainable coaching practices that support educators and improve outcomes for students. Learn more at instructionalcoaching.com.

SPEAKER_03 0:55

Hi everyone, and welcome to our second episode of the School Solutions Talk Podcast. And we've got a very special guest with us here today. And uh so just I just want to say hi to Tara and I want to say hi to Geza and just uh welcome everybody, and uh, we're so happy that you can join us for this second episode. Um, so let me tell you a little bit about Geza Doringer. Geza is an experienced solution-focused practitioner, occupational therapist, and trainer. For the past 18 years, she has been working as a job coach at the Department for Adolescents with early onset psychosis at the Amsterdam University Medical Center. Geiza respectfully witnesses the resilience and solutions of these young people. She admires how they dust themselves off after experiencing mental health problems and dare to focus on their goals and next steps ahead. Experiential learning and game elements are Gaza's secret ingredients to hold space for her clients and encourage them to gain new insights and hope. For the past 10 years, she has worked as an author and solution-focused trainer in Germany, Austria, and the Netherlands. In 2023, she published her solution-focused game, The Mindsetter, which is now played in 29 countries worldwide and implemented in schools in several countries. Today, in our conversation with Geiza, we're going to highlight how the solution-focused mindsetter game is making a difference in schools. Welcome, Geza.

SPEAKER_01 2:30

Thank you so much. Great to be here. It's so wonderful to have you here, Geza. It really, it really is. And listening to that intro about all the wonderful work that you do and about the the mindsetter game. And I feel like a, well, I think Vicky and I both feel like a very lucky recipient of the game, also. So yeah, we'll get to talk about our experiences of using the mindsetter in in schools for children and young people. So our first question for you. What were your original hopes that sparked the idea for the mindsetter game?

SPEAKER_02 3:12

My best hope in the beginning, because the first version was for training. So what I wanted back then is that practitioners or well, it doesn't matter if teachers, social workers, therapists, whatever, coaches could playfully experiment with a solution-focused mindset and reflect on their work, on their clients, on them versus the client in a solution-focused way. And hence the name, so the mindsetter, to just try out what does it feel like to get solution-focused questions? What does it feel like to adapt that mindset? But very soon after, I thought, what a shame to only use it in training. So I wanted to use it with my clients, which I started to do very, very soon after. Yeah. And so the second version came along, which by now is actually the one that's used the most internationally. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:06

Wonderful.

SPEAKER_03 4:08

And as you were designing it, Gaza, what were some small signs that told you this was going to work for users?

SPEAKER_02 4:16

I think what I keep seeing, and and I'm I'm curious if you see the same, is it is solution focused in the game dynamics too, that it's very open. There's one rule, which we can already tell now, that cheating is permitted. And already when I say that, I start to gleam people going, Oh, I can cheat. So they get in a very solution-focused mode, let's say. So what I keep seeing happen is that people get into very deep and meaningful conversations even with strangers very quickly. So it gives that safety or that safe space that people dare to share vulnerability, to share ideas, to get to know each other. And that's what keeps happening. And I think my one of my first small signs, because I never meant it as a product I was gonna sell, but at some point, wherever I used it, people would say, Oh, I wanna have it, where can I get it? I want one too. And I delivered a training in Munich and they made me leave it there, so I I went home without the game. So I guess that the instant that people start having conversations that matter in a very playful way, yeah.

First School Trials And Impact

SPEAKER_01 5:33

Yes, yeah, I love that. And yeah, I mean, from my own experience um of using the game within the school setting, and um, I mean, it's it's a a story that we enjoy telling, um, isn't it, Gaza, that you know, the opportunity for um a group of students here in the UK in Bath, um, that they got to be um the first school, the first group of children, young people that got to play it in a school setting. Um, and from the very outset of facilitating that wisdom and observing them, and just being able to have the wonderful opportunity to listen in to the conversations that emerged from them playing. Um, and yeah, that's you know, in the beginning they were because it's you can put it out on the floor and they're like throwing their shoes off, the bags are in the corner, their blazers are off. So instantly they are relaxed and playful. And and then what emerged was exactly as you said, this opening up of these meaningful conversations, um, and how they quickly supported each other in those. Um, it was just an you know a beautiful thing to observe. And this was a group of young people that were quite new to secondary school, didn't really know each other, even though they were in the same year group. They actually didn't know each other particularly well. Um, and yeah, they just and and throughout it was like that playfulness, but this really kind of meaningful and deep uh conversation emerged. So yeah, I um feel very lucky to have had the opportunity to to play with the game and to observe it in the school setting.

Why Games Lower Defences

SPEAKER_02 7:32

Yeah, and I remember you saying that they called each other or called themselves the group of six, and that you could tell from the way they walked through the halls if they had played with the students, uh, with the with it with the students or with the interns or not. Yes. So and I think games really lower defenses. So what I also see happening is that even tough topics get talked about because somehow it seems safer that some questions I would normally have trouble getting answers to, or at least immediate answers, if suddenly if the question is on a card. Somehow it's easier if the game is asking the questions, not the therapist.

How The Game Works

SPEAKER_01 8:12

Yeah. So actually could it be really helpful for could you tell us a little bit for our listeners, you know, um a little bit more about the game and how how it works and how it reflects kind of core solution focused?

SPEAKER_02 8:29

Um yes, sure. The game, uh the the the that coaching version or the version you're using is um has four quadrants, of which what I normally do is ask the young person or the client, whatever age actually, to think of a goal, something they a preferred future, we would call it in solution focus, the best hope they have for the coming month, years, whatever. It can be big or small. And with that goal in mind, they can play. And if someone is too shy or the answer is too stressful, they are also allowed to just write it down and put it in their pocket or just think of their preferred future. Um, and then they roll the dice and start playing. So the four quadrants, one is best hopes, and it's 96 questions in total in total, and 24 per quadrant. So the questions around best hopes are stuff like, and this is one of the questions one of your students liked so much, is if we meet on the street in five years' time and you're telling me that you're doing really well, what do you tell us about your life and how it's going? Um, or it's how what is other what gives other people the the confidence that you will reach your goal? Or a sparkling moment, like if um remember a moment in the past few weeks where you were proud to be you, and I keep hearing fantastic answers. Even if first I think, oh god, this is gonna be difficult. But they come up with answers or they help each other out. The second quadrant, and that makes it very solution focused. If something works, do more of it. So to look at what compliments do they get? What works well for them? What have they learned? What's going well? What are they proud of? The third quadrant is if something doesn't work, do something different. And some people in the beginning are hesitant thinking that's going to be a problem analysis. But being very solution-focused, those questions are about what else could you try? Or and and and what could be a next step? And if you learn that, what difference would it make? Which is a very very solution-focused way of asking what's important to you. Just saying, okay, if you achieve that, what difference will that make? And what will other people say? And what difference will it make will that make to you? And the fourth quadrant is helpers and resources. So that could be helpful people around them, but that could also be what kind of music do you like, and what um what difference does that music make, or what member what people who who are people you can always rely on? And and or another favorite of mine, if you could ask a character from a book or film for help or for advice, whom would you ask and why? And suddenly those apparently simple questions always happen in a solution-focused conversation. If taken seriously, those questions bring very deep information and very rich um reasons to have hope.

Adapting For Classrooms

SPEAKER_03 11:38

Yes, and it's you know, uh Geza, it's such an expansive bank of questions. Um, I just love that, that um there there's depth to every question, but like you're saying, each one facilitates a very sort of comfortable conversation. And my experience using the game in the classroom, I've um I've facilitated the game mostly with groups of leadership students, both in elementary and secondary. And I usually have a class full of students. So I, you know, it's not while I show them the mat and I show them, you know, how we can actually engage with the game using the mat in a sort of very actionable movement type of way, I can't really facilitate it so much with such a large group of students. So what I do is I show them the mat, and then I ask them, I say to them, okay, we're dividing into groups, and you can go anywhere in the classroom that you like. You can sit on the floor, you can put your desk together, you can just move around. And so now in small groups, I give them each a small stack of cards. And uh then what we do is we sort of using your um your intention around goal setting and the preferred future, we look not at, so my favorite topic of topic of focus to give them is not what are you gonna do after high school, what are you gonna do after elementary school, which is you know, is a typical transitions type of conversation that we usually have with young people. I ask them, what is it that you would like to improve in yourself before high school? What is it that you would like to improve in yourself before post-secondary? And then we pull out the questions and they ask each other these questions based on that topic. And um immediately, immediately, it's like magnets. The students become completely absorbed in the game, and um we're able to have some really meaningful and reflective conversations, and I just basically go around and you know, listen and sit with the students and talk with the students as they're doing this. Um I find I find it to be extremely valuable. And what I hear from students afterwards is oh, you know, it was so great to learn about other students in my class. It was so learned, it was, you know, I I made a new friend, or I don't usually have the opportunity to talk to students in my class that I don't know. Um, it's so nice to get to know them in different ways. So I just find that so valuable.

SPEAKER_02 14:30

And I think from when you first played it, you send me some feedback, Vicky. And one of them was I will walk the halls differently today because I've gotten to know other students in a different way.

SPEAKER_03 14:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:43

Or like the the it was nice to stop and think about what helps and supports me. And this is actually again one of my highlights. I work with a bit older teens, obviously. But what keeps happening that suddenly if if there's someone you support or someone you admire, they come up with their dad or their mom, and I go, Oh, does your mom know that? It's like, yeah, I guess, but maybe I could tell her. Like to find out what what impact it might have outside the group. But what also what you're saying, a goal can be, or a re a best hope could be a joint best hope. Like, what if we had the best school year, whatever ever? Like, what would that be like? And play with a joint goal. It doesn't have to be individual.

SPEAKER_03 15:27

Yes, yes. Yeah, yeah.

Global School Feedback

SPEAKER_01 15:30

And I I kind of, you know, what I've noticed is that, you know, particularly in secondary education, there, even though there might be a lot of kind of group activities in the classroom that are kind of sort of learning-based, there isn't there and there is play um in the breaks, which might involve a ball, and but you know, there isn't really a lot of play in secondary school. And that transition from primary school, particularly, uh, you know, I'm guessing it's it might be the world over, so but that transition from primary into secondary, that that a lot of that playful umness and that sort of play is is is it doesn't really, it's it's not very present. And then I think to bring play, to bring games, to bring that back into and group work, um, doing that as you would, you know, in a group work activity is just so important. So much happens when they have the opportunity to be playful, to um to work together, and then bringing in the questions and the solution focus mindset um and enabling them to do that together, you know, the as you know you've touched on already, uh Geza, but the ripple effect of that, you know, what we've noticed in schools is is quite profound in the sense that like you know, the knowing um other people in the groups and oh, you go into the group work, and you know, the going into the pastoral, into the support offices, and sort of like, oh, can my mate join the group? And um and and that that it's created a really kind of um incredible energy and and vibe. Um and again it's normalized coming in and having conversations about well-being and about hopes for the future and about how you manage difficult situations and you know what might be your flow, um, which is one of your questions, um, you know, that they're kind of stood there doing, sort of like taking uh standing in sort of particular poses to sort of show their um when they're at their best, or um I can't you all have to remind me of the exact uh uh card, but um yeah, the impact in schools I think is is incredible. Um and you know, I'd love to see more play and more sort of gamification in in schools, more of the mindset.

SPEAKER_02 18:06

Sure, me too. No, but I think what also makes it so solution focused is the celebrating successes together, or finding really holds space also or sets the stage for new ideas to come up with or think about in in with peer support to think about what could be a next step and what will that look like and what will others see me do. And as a facilitator, you don't have the rules, uh the role to ask all the questions. So the leading from one step behind, really staying behind, having the player in the lead is so present that at some point I can ask them to expand to say, Oh, tell me more about that, and how does that is that linked to your goal? Or I can let it be, and I can just let the question and the the the process do the work. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:57

There are so many fantastic attributes to this game because it really does bring gamification into the curriculum, as you're saying, Tara, right? That that we can dovetail gamification with learning, and we should, because it's experiential and young people learn better when they're experiencing the learning. So really we can strike up any topic and use the questions to support that topic and learning. So there is that. There's also the whole element of bringing communication, you know, living and breathing communication in the classroom, you know, let it not just be about teaching and learning, let it be about people actually relating with each other, learning about each other, and expressing, expressing what's on their mind in a safe and inclusive environment. You know, I just love that about the game. Did did uh Gaze, I'm just wondering if any of the other um practitioners and facilitators who brought the game into schools, if they've given you any feedback about it?

Co‑Creation And Flexible Rules

SPEAKER_02 20:01

Of course, like in preparation for this, I asked around because it's being used in schools or with young peop young young pupils in New Zealand, in Switzerland, in the UK, in Australia, and um in the Netherlands and Germany. And for example, our common friend and colleague Ursula from the Switzerland said that she often uses it, and what she says is that um it really enables communication. So she stresses what we've already said due to the engaging questions, and what she also sees that in and I think your role changes, what I already said as a practitioner, you are could be playing along if it's a one-on-one session or with a small group, I sometimes play along. And she also said, Yeah, it makes things much easier because I also play along and answer questions. Um which, as a teacher or uh professional in schools, could just be, what can I do to make it the best classroom possible, or whatever. So it doesn't have to be too personal. And um what I also love is the feedback from Susie O'Call from the Netherlands who said, like, the questions encourage students to think differently. And she elaborated saying differently in the sense that they've never been asked this before and have never thought that way. And that in my eyes also makes it so solution focused. I really love it when people don't immediately have an answer, and then I encourage them to, yeah, it's a difficult question, think about it, and suddenly they come up with new ideas because if they knew it right away, it usually isn't what we're looking for because uh it's something they've already known. But what I want them to get, of course, is that idea of okay, I'm not sure. And then they have to think about it and do come up with an answer, or their peers come up with an answer if they say yay, but you're always helpful and you're always whatever. Uh well, you're so good as a football player, or you they come up with all those ideas that they didn't find obvious before. So um, yeah, feedback from was also this is new and fun, is what students say. They um immediately are aware that they're thinking. Deeply, like through a game, that you can tell that they are really deep in thought and coming up with new ideas. And what Matt Cameron from New Zealand said that and I like that because Tara, you're doing or you both are doing it too, and you already talked about it, that he adopted his way. Matt said it really needs to be, there needs to be a competitive element. And while I personally don't miss it, he uses it that they can gain points for answering questions. So very soon, and you can uh yeah, if anybody wants to use it with a game, he's happy to share. He developed a puzzle, like that you can gain a puzzle piece if you answer a question. So this also makes the whole process very solution focused for me because I love the co-creation to see it because Tara, you said they took to it like ducks to water, but you facilitated that process by saying, Oh, you're the first kids in the UK. So before the game had even arrived, it was an honor to play the game. Which was amazing. And in Vicky, as you say, you have a full classroom full, so you have to adapt. And that also is something I love when I talk about the game, I keep saying there's very little rules. It's not a this is how you have to do it. I love the versatility, it's on purpose that there is because I like the co-creation. I like to also with facilitate or with professionals to be able to say, yeah, but you with your little group, you came up with fantastic rules and ideas, and the way you played it was great, wasn't it? So that's co-creation. Like you come up with something that's working for you. Even with grown-ups, I see or also students, some groups sit down and philosophically talk about three questions for an hour, and others want to be quick and run around and answer 30 questions and think they've won. But if it works for them and they come up with new ideas, I'm totally fine with that. So I love seeing the interaction.

SPEAKER_03 24:29

Yeah, it's certainly very enticing to say to students, you know, you can freely cheat in this game. Because we're always so busy telling them how cheating is not okay. But that in itself would motivate them to want to engage. You know, we don't have to roll the dice, we don't have to go in order, we can ask the questions freely, however we want, we can go ahead with the conversations however we want. And I think that's just so lovely.

SPEAKER_02 24:55

Yeah, and it also for the more vulnerable students, maybe if a question, because as I said, I usually encourage them to think again, like if they don't know, and I think about it, and maybe I rephrase the question, but if they don't come up with anything, I say, you know what, we can cheat. There's 95 other questions. You want another one? Like, and at the end of whatever time we have, because also the timing is really flexible. I've played 15 minutes, I've played an hour and a half, but usually the last few minutes, I tell them, you know what, we have 10 minutes left. Where do you want to go? You want to jump? You wanna is there a quadrant you haven't been? What are you curious about? What's important? And they just choose.

SPEAKER_00 25:40

Yeah. Thanks to Family Based Solutions, a charitable organization that aims to end the cycle of abuse in families and to repair relationships using the solution-focused brief therapy method. They offer counseling services, support groups, solution-focused training, online support, and global leadership to those who need it most. Learn more at FamilyBasedSolutions.org. Thanks to our sponsor, the Canadian Center for Brief Coaching at Family-Based Solutions. The CCBC provides workplace training programs, coaching, and consulting to organizations across various sectors worldwide, all with solution-focused coaching as the fundamental educational framework. For more, visit cracademia.com. That's pracademia.com.

Prevention And Wellbeing In Schools

SPEAKER_01 26:37

So originally I put together a couple of hours sort of solution focused related, you know, how do you approach attendance for solution focused mindset. And it was all very much, you know, slides and you know, sat-round discussions and very interactive as it would be with solution focused for them. And I kind of they were just like I just got the sense, got that kind of gut feeling that they just weren't, they just, they were done. They were kind of, you know, it was the end of the school year. And I said to them, look, you know, I've got I've brought um the mindset game with me, and you know, you know, maybe we would just want to go outside. And it was um a beautiful day. So we took the game out and put it on the lawn. And there was about eight of them and just started to play the game and you know, invited them to think about what their best hope was, whether that was a tiny little best hope or you know, and and didn't really give them any guidance on what that might be, you know, because obviously it was up to them. And it was just really it was really uh heartwarming what emerged from that. It was really personal. And there was some that related it to their school work and their leadership kind of roles, and but majoritively it was it was just it was about them and from you know, so it just created, even thinking about it now, it was just like wow, it was just such a moving experience that um that yeah, they would and all stood around there, stood barefoot on the grass, you know, they'd throw it again. I don't know what it is with me in the mindset to game, everyone's shows off their shoes. Running off the shoes off there. Um so yeah, it was it was you know, it was a bit of a kind of pattern pattern disruption, but it was just changing, it just brought in an opportunity for them. Um, yeah, just to think about them. So that was a really beautiful experience in using the game.

SPEAKER_02 28:51

Yeah, and I the other day I played with young students, so first year, but that makes them 17. And one of the boys later said, Oh, which which warmed my heart because he went, like, oh, I have to admit, I haven't had such interesting conversations in a long time. Like uh, yeah, or also another young student, female student, who for a question like, what would be a small sign that things are going the right way? She was saying, Yes, that she has very little friends or very few new friends, little very few friends sometimes think she's weird. And I thought it was so brave because it was first year they had known each other for a few weeks. But yet it felt totally fine and safe, and the rest were supportive and nodding away and saying, Well, no, it's not about the amount, it's how great that you're sharing it. So it's also normalizing sharing about feelings, sharing a weakness, and yeah, I I think it's really important.

SPEAKER_01 29:54

Yeah, the normalizing. I mean, that's something that's just stand out for me, and you know, and yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 30:01

Yeah, and I mean we've had that conversation before. I mean, uh obviously you know that I work in a setting where mental health problems are already present. But I think students or uh teenagers, adolescency is such a uh vulnerable age, so there's so much happening. They need to find their identity, they need to find out who they are, who they want to be. And of course, without me, of course, it's not a miracle cure to play a game, but I love resources, I love normalizing for young people to dare to talk about it, to open up, because then the chances also get bigger that they will ask for help if needed. And maybe they don't even need it because they will have the support and figure out what am I good at, what can I do. And I think schools are already moving that way, that that gets more important and has more attention to see what's meant like when well-being of students. But I think this your mindset is one of the tools to be used for that. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:05

I mean, it's got huge, and this is kind of how we feel about solution focus generally, isn't it? But with play, with with the game, it's this is preventative work. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, definitely. So yeah, we've got another question for you. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_03 31:24

Do you do you want to go ahead with it, or I go ahead with it?

SPEAKER_01 31:28

You go ahead.

Scaling Mindsetter In Education

SPEAKER_03 31:29

Okay, okay. Um so I guess you know what I'm thinking about, Geza, is where do we go from here with the mindset in schools? How do we how do we move forward? How you know, how do we get the word out? Because this truly is a valuable um opportunity for students and for staff in schools. Where do we go from here?

SPEAKER_02 31:58

Hopefully, to more schools and countries, because I think what I've seen so far is how well it works for with people from 9 to 99. But I think I obviously I get the question so often why make a business version. I say, no, I want kids, I want and let young people have my heart. So I'd like to continue that pilot we started, Tara, to see how can schools use it. I'm very happy to to talk if people want to have more information or need a starting point, whatever, so to facilitate it. Because I think age-wise, the range I think so far it's been used, or what I know that's been used for sex successfully is from nine, ten years of age, something like that. Um, but that's still a huge group. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 32:53

Any ideas on you, and well, I'm wondering also how um how school leaders uh can reach out to you and and have these conversations and uh and so that they can think about, because there are so many ways to implement it in schools, right? There we can implement it with staff, um, school principals can implement it with their own staff, right? Uh staff can implement it with each other, uh they can implement it with students, students can play with each other, right? If it's available, if it's made available in the classroom, then they can just pull it out when when they have an opportunity or a moment to be able to engage in it. And and if they're so excited by it, then they will. So um I'm just wondering um what would be a good way for schools to reach out to you and communicate with you.

SPEAKER_02 33:48

I mean, on the one hand, there's a website they can check, which we'll share in the bio. And people can also send me an email, which is infolisto-amsterdam.com. And I'm really happy to chat to see how that goes. There's this podcast, obviously, there's an article from Scotland, but that's about the training version. So there's more and more evidence or about more written about the mindsetter. But I think just send me an email.

SPEAKER_03 34:21

Okay, well, that that's wonderful. And we'll make sure uh that um in the bio of this podcast that we have those connections. So we'll have your the email, we'll have the the website, and if if uh we have a link to the article, perhaps we'll drop that in as well. Um is there anything else we can do, Giza? Because I I really think we have to get this message out there.

Languages, Access, And Next Steps

SPEAKER_02 34:48

I think we are well on the way, but what the next I want to keep playing. So I mean I think for me it's step by step seeing how people can use it. And maybe it's interesting because I'm keep talking about worldwide, but there's at the moment, maybe that's interesting to mention. There's six languages of the mindsetter. I've done five, which is German, Dutch, English, Spanish, and Polish. And the Turkish company has bought the rights, so there's also a Turkish version, if that's interesting for someone. Wow, that's fascinating.

SPEAKER_03 35:25

Yeah. Okay. Well, is uh do you and do you have any last words, Tara, that you would like to share with Giza?

SPEAKER_01 35:32

I yeah, I just it's been wonderful to have the opportunity to speak to you today. And it's yeah, it it's the the game is really active. I've got a wonderful social work student. I have the privilege of seeing having a social work student um all year round, um, and they facilitate most of the the pretty much all of the group work and they use it one-to-one as well. So I really enjoy sharing it with them and hearing how they're adapting it in their way to work with the young people that they're um I've used it with a younger child as well, actually. I have used it with um and I've kind of adapted it to well, yeah, with in the one-to-one with a six-year-old. But yeah, just uh thank you and lovely to spend the time with you as always, and with you, Vicky, and looking forward to it. Yeah, likewise. Yeah. So thank you for joining us, and um, thank you to our listeners for joining us too. And we'll be we'll be back soon and take care, everybody.

SPEAKER_03 36:39

Thank you, Gaza. Bye, thank you, and you share everybody.

Closing Thanks And Final Sponsor

SPEAKER_00 36:45

Thanks to our sponsor, Work Collaborative, a not-for-profit movement that helps schools lead change from within. They trust that teachers, leaders, parents, and students have the capability to solve their own challenges when given the right support. Join this global movement of educators at workcollaborative.com.