An Interview with Erin Cusanno - A Hopeful Trail of Breadcrumbs

In this episode, Tara and Vicky have the pleasure of interiewing Erin Cusanno. Erin has worked as a middle school counselor for 26 years.  About eight years ago, she became fascinated with the Solution Focused approach and started to incorporate it into her work at school.  Two years ago she shifted into a program to help students who struggle with chronic absenteeism.  She utilizes Solution Focused Principles in every aspect of the program, working with students, caregivers and school staff.  Outside of school, Erin has a private practice where she primarily works with high school and college age students while using the Solution Focused approach. https://www.erincusanno.com/. Erin also co-facilitates a Solution Focused Peer Consultation group for school based practitioners and leaders.  Go to  https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScP0LA0i7yes1SIjaMjibuAP-RO00gxE47e0czLnas9i1OAEg/viewform. 

THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS:

Work Collaborative, a not-for-profit movement restoring confidence in schools worldwide. Based on the best-selling book Change Starts Here by Shane Leaning and Efraim Lerner, Work Collaborative helps schools lead change from within instead of relying on external solutions. The collaborative’s approach trusts that teachers, leaders, parents and students have the capability to solve their own challenges when given the right support. If you're interested in solution-focused approaches that build internal capacity, join this global movement of educators at workcollaborative.com.

Instructional Coaching Group is the global destination for coaching in education, including instructional coaching and leadership coaching. Led by Dr. Jim Knight, ICG’s work is grounded in more than 25 years of research focused on improving teaching and strengthening leadership, with the ultimate goal of increasing student success. Through research-based learning and consulting, the Instructional Coaching Group partners with schools and systems worldwide to build sustainable coaching practices and programs that support schools. www.instructionalcoaching.com 

The Canadian Centre for Brief Coaching (CCBC) - Founded by Dr. Haesun Moon, is a company based in Toronto, Ontario, Canada.  The CCBC provides competency-based workplace training programs as well as coaching and consulting services to organizations across sectors, both in Canada and across the globe. Since its inception as a research body and think tank comprised of graduate students, subject-matter experts and community partners, the CCBC has evolved to provide programs and services designed  with Solution Focused Coaching as the fundamental framework. Go to: www.pracademia.com 

 Family Based Solutions is a charitable organization based in the UK and founded by Ayse Adil and Joe Lettieri. They offer counselling services, support groups, solution focused training, online support and global leadership. They work collaboratively to end the cycle of abuse in families and to repair relationships.  Using Solution Focused Brief Therapy (SFBT), FBS gives families full control of their healing, alowing families to take small and manageable steps toward their bests hopes. Go to https://familybasedsolutions.org.uk/

Transcript

Sponsors And Support Resources

Welcome And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_02 0:23

Thanks to Family Based Solutions, a charitable organization that aims to end the cycle of abuse in families and to repair relationships using the solution-focused brief therapy method. They offer counseling services, support groups, solution-focused training, online support, and global leadership to those who need it most. Learn more at FamilyBasedSolutions.org. Thanks to our sponsor, the Canadian Center for Brief Coaching and Family-Based Solutions. The CCBC provides workplace training programs, coaching, and consulting to organizations across various sectors worldwide, all with solution-focused coaching as the fundamental educational framework. For more, visit pracademia.com. That's pracademia.com. Hi, Tara.

SPEAKER_01 1:20

Hi, Vicki. Good to do. How are you doing today? Good. I'm very happy to be here. Very excited to have our wonderful guest with us today.

SPEAKER_03 1:29

Yes, we have a very special guest with us today. And this is Erin Cusano. Erin, hi.

SPEAKER_04 1:36

Hi. Hi. Happy to be here.

SPEAKER_03 1:39

It's really great to have you on board. We're so excited about the work you're doing and we want to hear all about it. So I'm going to read your bio and for our listeners. So Erin Cusano has worked as a middle school counselor for 26 years. About eight years ago, she became fascinated with a solution-focused approach and started to incorporate it into her work at school. Two years ago, she shifted into a program to help students who struggle with chronic absenteeism. She utilizes solution-focused principles in every aspect of the program, working with students, caregivers, and school staff. Outside of school, Erin has a private practice where she primarily works with high school and college-age students utilizing the solution-focused approach. She also enjoys teaching other educators the tools of the solution-focused approach and how to utilize them at school. Erin appreciates spending time with her husband and two children, Nina and Patrick. They love to travel and explore new places. Erin loves to cook and enjoys hosting gatherings of family and friends at the family cottage on Lake Ontario. That's amazing. And you know, as I as I'm reading that, Erin, I'm remembering the conversation that you and I had over lunch when we were in Fort Worth, Texas for the 2024 SFBTA conference. And you were actually telling me about, you know, a family gathering that you were having where you were cooking and so on. Yes. Yes. Yeah. So so welcome. And um we really, really happy to launch into this conversation. And Tara, I'm the honors go to Tara with question number one.

Falling For Solution Focus

SPEAKER_01 3:24

Oh yeah, Erin, it's it's really wonderful to have you here. I'm really excited to have this conversation. And I yeah, to get us started, so eight years ago you discovered the solution-focused approach. So I just really curious to hear about what was it about the solution-focused approach that really kind of struck you. And yeah, if you would describe it as kind of that moment when you sort of maybe started to fall in love with it. I'd love to hear more about that.

SPEAKER_00 3:58

Yeah, so we had um a really challenging year with with lots of students that were really struggling one year. Um, and it was actually 2017. Um, so over the summer of that year, I was kind of looking at different, I was thinking to myself, like, how can I do differently, better, connect with kids, like, how do we do this differently so that we can reach more students, maybe, or be more effective. Um, and I stumbled across a conference, um, the Solution Focused Brief Therapy Association conference, and it was in Santa Fe, New Mexico, in November. And um, at the time I had never been to Santa Fe, and I was like, okay, solution sounds good, brief sounds good, you know, and Santa Fe sounds good. So let's see if the district will buy into this and support me in going. And um, and they did. So I was super grateful and went to this conference, and it was funny, it was sort of a comedy of errors getting there. I had um all these crazy things happen, which I won't go into, but I finally got to the conference and I went to a workshop, um, a pre-conference workshop with Brenda Zalterminden and Heather Fisk. And it was a workshop called Train the Trainer. So somehow they let me go to this workshop, even though, you know, I had heard about solution focused brief therapy and read the chapter in my textbook when I was in grad school. Um, but I wasn't a trainer for by any means. So in that workshop, there was a combination of active learning experiences and we were using the questions, and um, we were we were coming up with really creative ideas of ways to train other people. And I just became fascinated with that, and it hooked me um because it was it also impacted me. I felt the difference in myself when I was asked solution-focused questions, even in a training, um, very different than many trainings I had been to. Um, and what resonated with me the most was the idea of next small steps. And so I went back thinking, this is how I wanted, this is how I want to practice. I want to do this. Um and I I, you know, I got back to school and there's a million things to do. And usually I would sort of like, okay, you know, I realized two months later that I haven't really done anything different. But in this case, I started thinking to myself, I'm going to ask a best hopes question every time I meet with a student. And it sounds like a small change, but at the time when I was trained and had practiced for years as a problem-focused professional, and I was trained that what we're supposed to do is ask about the problem and really get to understand it so we can figure it out. And so doing something different than that felt like a giant like step for me and um and also something doable. So I challenged myself to do that and just noticed immediately the difference that that was making in the kinds of conversations I was having with students and the kind of conversations that I was having about students. And so that was my very first step. Um, and then I really started training myself in the kinds of questions to ask, because I would ask that best hopes question, and then my mind would immediately go back to what I knew, which was a lot of problem-focused questions. And so I really had to, you know, I kind of created a deck of cards for myself and I studied the questions and I, you know, went to other trainings, but that was really what hooked me. It was really in my heart, knowing that like this feels different to me than um in a hopeful way, in a way that feels like I have some agency over what's going on. And this is again just in a training, but I could feel the difference. Um, and I figured if I can feel the difference, other people can feel the difference. So that was kind of how I became fascinated. And then schools are are, you know, a beautiful environment. They're like a petri dish of, you know, of opportunities to utilize solution-focused principles because there's so many opportunities um throughout the day, whether it's with families and caregivers or students, um, or you know, faculty, um, teachers, administrators. Um that was how sort of I got started. And then I came back from that conference. And the funny thing was, um, I was super excited about it. I was all pumped up, and everything was about solution focus. And I talked to my um director of pupil personnel services at the time, and she was the one that had really supported me going to this conference. And I was so excited, and I was telling her all about it and how, you know, so easy to utilize and it was applied, could apply to anybody. And she said to me, Well, we have these trainings once a month for all the district administrators, and it's usually like three hours in a morning on Wednesday. And I would love it if you would be willing to train the administrators. And I was all excited. So I was like, Yes, I'll do it. And then about a five minutes after I got off the phone with her, I was like, What did I just say I'm gonna do? Like, I don't even, you know, I'm learning this, and I just thought I was gonna train administrators. So that was um that was outside of my comfort zone, but it it, you know, I reached out actually to Brenda Zalterminden, who had actually done the train the trainer workshop, and she was super, super helpful and um helped me sort of create a training that you know they responded really well to. I don't know if I do the same training again, but the administrators were really, you know, um happy to learn and sort of took away certain um pieces that they felt were relevant for them. So that was also exciting.

Why These Questions Feel Different

SPEAKER_01 9:53

Wow. Just such an incredible story. And I I love what you said that when you experienced the solution focus training, when you were in that train the trainers workshop, that it sort of stood out as being a different experience to you compared to other things that you'd been trained in, that you noticed the difference when you were experiencing the solution focused questions. And just really curious to know what was the difference? What is the difference, do you think, that people experience when they are asked solution focused questions?

SPEAKER_00 10:33

So, what what I noticed um was in an activity that was really geared towards highlighting people's strengths. And people at this, you know, table that knew me for a couple of hours um were invited to sort of pay compliments. And I had people who were, you know, who complimented different things that they noticed about me in the short time. And it was so powerful. And I thought to myself, I've worked in the same school for, you know, at that time it was like almost 20 years with a lot of the same people. And they may think some of these things, but they don't often say those things. We don't have that's not part of our culture to just compliment each other. And so that was powerful um and validating. And I also noticed just the difference in terms of hope. Um, you know, thinking about sort of a situation that might be considered a problem situation, but really looking at it through an angle of what you would like to see happen differently, or what you're hoping for instead of that, really allowed a space, I think, for hope to sort of enter into the conversation differently in a way that feels like uh helpful.

SPEAKER_03 11:49

Yeah. Wow. And how do you feel that this is helpful to everyone in schools, especially at a time where we're rebuilding post-pandemic, right?

A 20 Minute Turnaround Story

SPEAKER_00 12:02

Yeah. Well, it was, you know, I mean, I won't go back there, but in the pandemic, it was significantly helpful. But I think one thing that I noticed immediately in my conversations with students, um, they became different. Um, and I'll share an example of a uh this was probably 10 years ago, eight, whatever, nine years ago. Now it was very early on. And I had a student come down who I didn't know. Her counselor was another counselor, so I didn't know the student. And they were visibly upset and crying. And they um described to me their counselor wasn't available, so I saw them. And I remember thinking, like, okay, I have a parent conference in 25 minutes that was sort of one that I couldn't miss. So I thought, okay, I hope the solution focused stuff kind of works because I really only have 25 minutes. Um, and the student is sobbing in front of me. So how do I do this? And so I asked the student um and kind of let them share what they were coming down about and invited them to kind of like, how can I be helpful? What is it that you'd like to, you know, have happen here? Um, and they started talking about their experience and and their challenge um in their relationship with their mom and how they had gotten into an argument. And so then I started shifting into some coping questions around how have you managed to to handle this in the past that's been helpful? What kinds of things might be helpful now? They ended up in 20 minutes coming up with a list of 10 different things that they already were doing that they knew to do that were helpful to them. And as we're having that conversation, um, you know, they mentioned, you know, contacting a friend. So we were able to explore that relationship through how were you able to create this friendship where you can contact this person, you know, at any point and let them know anything. And so we were able to explore some relationships. Um, we were able to explore some resources and strengths like art and music were things that they really felt um were helpful to them. So in 20 minutes, the student went from sobbing to sitting up, you know, interacting and said, you know, I think I'm ready to go back to class. And I said, Okay, would you like me to, you know, check in with you? You know, do you want to come down? Do you want to schedule another time to check in? And they were like, No, I think I'm good. I'll let you know if I need to come down. And I said, Okay, that sounds great. And I walked out to kind of accompany the student back out um through the office. And we have two secretaries that sit looking out. And you know, I said goodbye and they were like, see you later. And that was that. And I turned around and the secretary's jaws were on the desk. And they were like, What did you do? I'm like, I don't know. What do you mean? And they said, when she comes down and meets with her counselor and she's like that, like so upset, she's in there for hours, and sometimes she just has to go home. And I said, I think I'm just asking different questions. And that sort of is just one example of I think the power in schools of not only being effective and having a student understand and highlight resources that they know, but also efficient in that it didn't take me three hours in talking with the student, it was 20 minutes. So I was able to make make my parent conference and you know, and and that student was able to sort of move on with their day and get back to class and interact at lunch. And so I've always thought about that as an example of the power of this approach in schools because there are lots of kids and lots of needs and not an unlimited amount of time to address those things.

SPEAKER_03 15:49

So that's just one example of yeah, it's such a great example. And the reality is that in your role as a school counselor, you really are working with students that are experiencing a lot of challenges. Yeah. And so it must feel great for you to be in a situation where you can actually make a difference in such a short period of time.

SPEAKER_00 16:13

Well, I will tell you this isn't the reason that I would, you know, that I, but I I will say that it I find as a practitioner, it is much more hopeful to work with students around their resources. And it's, I mean, how wonderful it is to sit with someone who all of a sudden recognizes, like, yeah, there are these 10 things that I somehow figured out that I actually am already doing, that I know how to do, that you didn't teach me. I know those things. And see the smile and see the person just sit up and sort of take ownership of that is really a beautiful thing.

SPEAKER_01 16:47

Yeah. I yeah. And it's just listening to you, you know, I think what can be people's instinct in those situations is to think the more efficient and the more effective and more helpful is to give them the solution. To give them some ideas to try and fix it. And you know, when and and that can often be well, well, is well intended, and yet that example that you gave just speaks so beautifully to what underpins the solution-focused approach and the power that when we see people, no matter how old they are, as experts for their own lives, that they know already, they know already what works, and it I just love that that in that moment you are able to invite that person to see their expertise, to to give them that agency and to be able to notice how they're managing, how they're coping, and be able to leave that conversation with you and get back into the busyness of school and to be in a better place. It's just such a beautiful example of the power of the solution-focused approach.

SPEAKER_00 18:03

Yeah. Yeah, no, I think it's a it's a good example and always a reminder to me of the power of just shifting our focus.

SPEAKER_04 18:11

Yeah.

Changing School Culture Without Labels

Building Aspire For Attendance

SPEAKER_00 18:11

Right. Away from sort of the idea of how can I solve this problem that you're bringing to me, to what would you like to see? And what are you already doing that's sort of helping you to be where you are and what kinds of things might be helpful to continue to do. Um, yeah, it's it to me, I it's hard to go back and think about um as somebody that's been really intentional about practicing in this way. It's hard to go back and think about like the old self. I kind of cringe. I'm like, oh, you know, this would have not been great. But it's really, it's interesting too. Um, in working with my colleagues, um, it's been really that was the hardest shift for me to make when sort of inviting colleagues to to think in this way, um, without sort of sounding like it's all about solution focused, right? So um I kind of laugh at myself when I came back from that conference and I was all, you know, it was all about solution focused. And then I kind of learned just stop saying it and just start doing it because um people will feel it. Um, and whether or not they agree, you know, or whether or not that approach necessarily is the way that they work, they can tell um, you know, the difference in asking. Um, you know, I work, I actually um started two years ago my school um funded a program that I'm now working in um called Aspire, which is geared towards students that have chronic absenteeism. And so it's been really fascinating. Um, and I don't know how I would have operated in this program without this approach, because um our, you know, as training staff and and and helping, and then our conversations um every week when we get together around kids and around, you know, concerning situations um are really infused with solution-focused principles, which um, you know, it's funny because teachers, like we, you know, one of our sort of mottos was relentlessly look for what works. Um, because the fact of the matter is schools spend a lot of time trying to guess at what somebody's issues are or what the problem really is, and trying to, you know, hypothesize about how to solve it, but we don't really we're kind of guessing and we don't really know. And so, you know, as as a team, we've really tried to hold in, all right. What is what works? The fact of the matter is we don't know how to solve this problem, right? But we can still find things that work, um, moments when kids are responding differently, um, times when uh communication goes really well, um, instances where someone is engaged differently in a classroom or with other students. And so those things, rather than just kind of overlooking them, those things become the thing that we're we're looking for. Um, and we are trying to build on those things. Um, and I almost think about it as um the the story where the the kids are following the breadcrumbs. I almost think about these little things as breadcrumbs and a trail towards better, maybe, or coming to school every day, or whatever that better is. Um, and if we are just walking along and we're not paying attention for them, we don't see them. But once we start looking for them, we can see like, oh yeah, that's a breadcrumb. That's breadcrumb. So we, you know, we have done that. And that's I don't know how else we would have done it had we not, you know, really focused on solution focus ideas and really just leaned into like we don't know what's gonna work, we don't know what the answer is, but we know we're looking for these particular things, um, you know, and and we're gonna just keep looking for those things and then sharing them and then trying to build on that for kids. Yeah.

Finding Exceptions And What Works

SPEAKER_01 22:04

Yeah. I mean, uh, obviously attendance is a big issue, and it's it's it's you know, it's a big issue here in the UK as well. It's an ongoing issue, and it and it is a real challenge um for schools. And I I I know well that our Listeners will be particularly interested in how you use solution focused in working with young people around attendance. So I'd love to hear more about that. Is there anything that you would say to people that would be kind of your your top tips and that program sounds just incredible? So I'd love to hear a little bit more about that.

SPEAKER_00 22:44

Yeah, I would love, you know, you'll have to stop me because I could talk for a lot time about it. But um, so everything from how we work with the students themselves to how we work together as a team, to how we work with caregivers and the systems that are around kids and families outside of school. Um, so for example, the old Aaron may have asked if there was a student that missed 60 days of school, may have asked about like what is causing you to miss all this school, right? Aaron doesn't ask those questions anymore. I ask, like, so on the days that you're coming, like you're coming some of the time. How do you get here? What kinds of things better the odds that you're gonna get up in the morning and end up at school at some point? And and really a lot of questions around that and being curious about exceptions. And I think that is a huge piece that's really, really important. Um, because even when somebody misses 130 days of school, they have come to 50 days of school. So, how has that happened? Um is really an important piece. So, in my work with kids, really examining exceptions, whether it's you know, academic performance, I'm not focused on the classes they're failing. I'm focused on the one class that they got to see in. And I'm super curious about what was different? How did you make that happen? What kinds of things helped you to do that? Um, and so I would say the same things with teachers. And that's where we meet once a week as a team. And there's four core teachers and myself and then an administrator and a school psychologist that often make up the team meetings. And we share information, but on top of that, if someone has a struggle or something that they're, you know, something they're struggling with with a particular student or in a class, um, we spend some time in this solution-focused consultation model where we go through in a very, very structured way, um, and a very different way than typically would happen in schools. Um, I have some pre-fabricated solution-focused questions. Um, and the person will present the issue, the thing that they're struggling with, and then we ask that person solution-focused questions about the kinds of things that they have already done, things that have been somewhat helpful, excuse me, their resources, their strengths, um, to help understand more of that. And then we do a round of compliments to that person based on what we hear them say, and then we go through and do sort of a tips and tricks round. Um, what kinds of things, not sort of a dissertation on what you need to do in this case, but here's something I felt was helpful for me, or here's a resource that was great, or here's an app I love to use for that, or a teacher saying, in my class, this student responds when I blah, blah, blah. Um, so it's it's sort of just this round of here are just some different ideas, take what seems useful to you and try it. Um, and typically, as uncomfortable as it is for teachers, because compliments are very uncomfortable to accept, um, typically the the person who brings the issue to the group usually leaves, you know, the experience saying, actually, that was super helpful, and I feel like I have some things that I know I can do now. So that's a win.

SPEAKER_02 26:22

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Food And Space That Invite Students

Community Building Beyond The Classroom

SPEAKER_00 26:43

The same thing I think goes for like work with caregivers. Um, I think a lot of the times there's, you know, there can be a lot of complicated issues that, you know, we don't necessarily always understand. So coming from a place of, you know, where are you at? What kinds of things have you done that have been useful? How have you managed thus far? And then, you know, is there anything else that you're thinking about and helping to sort of rally the community supports around families as well, both in connecting them, but also starting from a place of validating what people are already doing and building on that rather than sort of coming in as an outside sort of expert saying, okay, this is what you need to do. Um, you know, I think that sometimes people have the best of intentions, and it ends up sort of not being the most helpful thing. So those are some of the ways we also um, as a group, incorporated food into our program because some students, um, when they come to school late, they miss the school breakfast. And so our hope was that we would always have snacks and things that kids could eat so they didn't come in and have to spend half the day until a lunch without eating anything. So that actually became way more a part of the program than I thought because I didn't, I wasn't thinking about it. I was thinking about it from a nutritional perspective, in the sense that like you can't it's hard to learn when you're hungry. But what I found out, what I discovered that was a surprise was food is also a way to see kids. So I know that your favorite fruit is watermelon, and I brought that because I know that. And so that feels a connection. Or there's, you know, everyone's coming in to get a snack, and the student that's reluctant to come in is coming in, and so that's a moment to like check in with that person. So food became a really, you know, important part of just what we did and how we were working with students. We also have um a space where we have like a farm table that I brought in, and it's it's almost like a kitchen. Like the kids will sit around the table and we have lunches in here sometimes, and it's a place like kids will play games, they'll do work. Um sometimes I laugh because there's a it's we have a classroom that's converted into three spaces. One of them is sort of like the kitchen, right? Like we're all sitting around the kitchen table. One of them is more of like a family room. There's a couch in there and some cozy seating. And then one is like the entryway. And I walk in sometimes. I'm like, I feel like I'm in my house. I got somebody's backpack in the middle of the way. There's boots over there. What is happening? You know? So we laugh about that. But it does, I think the kids come in and say, like, the space feels different. Like I can come in and I can just relax. Um, the halls are busy and crowded and loud, and I can just come in and it's like take a breather. So I think that was really intentional. We want it to feel different than you know, lots of school type spaces because we know that if kids aren't coming to school, there's a reason for that. And school's probably not their favorite place to be. So we were intentionally trying to do things that to increase their comfort level, like food and a comfortable space. And then the other piece was to decrease discomfort. So, as we, you know, for kids that felt maybe isolated or didn't feel socially connected, we also have um a whole component of, you know, field trips and community building activities that we built into the program to make the community building beyond the classroom. So there's smaller groups of kids in their core classes. So math, science, social studies, and English are no more than 10 students, and it's the same 10 students. So they take all those classes together. Um, and then we do field trips, like we um collaborated with the local Broadway Theater League, and we took kids to see musicals both years. Um, we've gone to local farms, um, we do like a rock climbing field trip with the kids. Um just to give them experiences outside of the middle school, but also connected to it to try to just increase um opportunities for kids to connect with each other, connect with their teachers, and just enjoy or start to see school as a less uncomfortable experience. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_03 31:15

Oh, yes. I mean, you're essentially what you're doing is you're building community. I love that. I love that you're you're in you're using your inspiration for the solution-focused approach to build that community in every way that you can by inviting them in, by finding ways to reach them, to reach them and invite them in. Um, and I think these students are very fortunate, very lucky to have you and to have this program. Um, and you know, I mean, it's it's an opportunity for them to slowly acclimatize to school, isn't it? Um and what kind of feedback are you getting from the school community around this program and an applying solution focus in this program as well?

SPEAKER_00 32:06

Well, I think the best feedback um is from the students themselves. So this is the second year of the program. Um, and the students that I had in eighth grade last year are now in the high school. And the majority of those kids um have connected back with me in some way, shape, or form, um, which I think it goes to speak to that connection because who really wants to come back to middle school? Not very many kids, right? So some of these kids have come back and said hi and visited. I think the parents too um have given a lot of feedback around um, you know, this actually changed our life in our family because every morning is not such a fight to try to get so and so to go to school, you know, that that they're they may not always be, you know, super excited about it, but there's more days that they're getting up and going versus, you know, getting up and really just not wanting to go. So that to me, um, you know, speaks to that. I mean, we've we've seen definitely, I mean, some of the the changes have been dramatic in terms of, you know, kids missing significant amount of school and then, you know, really being consistent about attending. Sometimes the progress is much more sort of incremental. Um, but the other piece that I've noticed is just that collaboration with parents really feels different. Um, to be in a space where we're, you know, we know that there's pretty significant struggle sometimes, and then still being able to collaborate in a way that feels like, you know, that parents are are feeling heard and we're also feeling like parents are hearing us. I think that piece is also a really big difference. Um, and I think some of it is simply just time, right? I'm a when I'm a school counselor, I have 250 students and I don't have the the time to actually attend to families in the same way that I do with a much smaller caseload. But I think it's also what I'm looking for in terms of the questions that I'm asking and what I'm asking them about. Um, I think, you know, it's it's just a different feel. Um and it's funny, right before I I you know hopped on here, I got a text from a teacher about a student that we've been working on attendance. And she said he, you know, he did nothing, um, but you know, he did one thing that I asked him to, but he's here. Um, and I think that's that's definitely progress. And what it was funny because my hope is that that teacher will see he's here as the most important thing, and he did one thing I asked in class as a second thing, you know, like that would be the text. Um, because I think that the shift was, you know, he's never here to he's here sometimes to we're gonna celebrate that he's here, and he did something that we asked him to do. So I think there again, this the incremental changes is really um it's very useful, I think, to kind of see those things and not just kind of walk past them and not recognize them.

SPEAKER_01 35:12

Noticing the crumbs.

SPEAKER_00 35:14

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:18

Oh wow, so powerful everything that you've shared with us, Erin. And um as we kind of approach the end of our conversation, I would love to kind of well, we'd love to hear um what you would, you know, think if someone in school that that's listening to this wants to take that first step, wants to take that first step in their solution-focused journey, or something that you would share with them, or just like a little kind of golden nugget of what solution focused is, what would you like to tell our listeners?

First Steps And Getting Support

SPEAKER_00 35:54

So a couple of things. One is start with something that feels doable to you. Um, join our our solution focused in schools consult group. We started a group um that's virtual so that once a month, the last um the fourth Sunday of the month, we meet in the afternoon virtually and just have solution-focused conversation around um, you know, anything people are bringing to the group. So join that. Um find other people who are solution focused or who can help you um maintain your energy around changing to solution focused because schools are very problem-focused systems in my experience. And it's really, really it's not hard to be solution focused, but it's hard to be solution focused as an island in a school without support around you. So um find some friends and um to help you keep that energy and that momentum. So those would be my, you know, start small, um, find other people and just keep learning.

SPEAKER_03 37:06

Thank you, Erin. I I want to say that the word that just keeps springing up in my mind um around all of the wonderful work that you're doing in school is appreciation. How you're showing your appreciation of others using solution focus, whether it be students or staff or parents, that really resonates with me. And I think as you continue to show appreciation, um your school will continue to flourish. So thank you.

SPEAKER_00 37:37

Thank you, Vicky, and thank you, Tara. It was great to talk with you today and just connect with you as always.

SPEAKER_01 37:44

It's been wonderful. So inspiring to hear everything that you're doing. And yeah, looking forward to when we could have more conversations with you.

Closing Thanks And Final Sponsor

SPEAKER_04 37:54

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 37:55

Well, thank you everybody for listening, and we'll look forward to chatting with you again soon. And take care.

SPEAKER_02 38:05

Our sponsor, the Instructional Coaching Group, is the global destination for coaching and education, grounded in more than 25 years of research, focused on improving teaching, strengthening leadership, and increasing student success. The Instructional Coaching Group partners with schools and systems worldwide to build sustainable coaching practices that support educators and improve outcomes for students. Learn more at instructionalcoaching.com.