Sharon Casey & The Janis Joplin Biography that Became English Class

Tara and Vicky have a wonderful conversation with Sharon Casey from Quebec, Canada - a solution-focused trainer with a background in education, crisis intervention, drug rehabilitation, and suicide prevention. What do small changes really mean when the stakes are high for students? Sharing many engaging experiences, Sharon takes us through why solution-focused coaching always works in education, and especially when students are experiencing particular challenges in their lives. She speaks to how to advocate for student wellbeing by being trauma-informed rather than trauma-obsessed. In her experience, strength-based conversations build agency and learning accelerates when a young person is supported in seeing themselves as a learner. You can find Sharon at https://www.lavoiesolutions.com/english/.

THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS:

Work Collaborative, a not-for-profit movement restoring confidence in schools worldwide. Based on the best-selling book Change Starts Here by Shane Leaning and Efraim Lerner, Work Collaborative helps schools lead change from within instead of relying on external solutions. The collaborative’s approach trusts that teachers, leaders, parents and students have the capability to solve their own challenges when given the right support. If you're interested in solution-focused approaches that build internal capacity, join this global movement of educators at workcollaborative.com.

Instructional Coaching Group is the global destination for coaching in education, including instructional coaching and leadership coaching. Led by Dr. Jim Knight, ICG’s work is grounded in more than 25 years of research focused on improving teaching and strengthening leadership, with the ultimate goal of increasing student success. Through research-based learning and consulting, the Instructional Coaching Group partners with schools and systems worldwide to build sustainable coaching practices and programs that support schools. www.instructionalcoaching.com 

The Canadian Centre for Brief Coaching (CCBC) - Founded by Dr. Haesun Moon, is a company based in Toronto, Ontario, Canada.  The CCBC provides competency-based workplace training programs as well as coaching and consulting services to organizations across sectors, both in Canada and across the globe. Since its inception as a research body and think tank comprised of graduate students, subject-matter experts and community partners, the CCBC has evolved to provide programs and services designed  with Solution Focused Coaching as the fundamental framework. Go to: www.pracademia.com 

 Family Based Solutions is a charitable organization based in the UK and founded by Ayse Adil and Joe Lettieri. They offer counselling services, support groups, solution focused training, online support and global leadership. They work collaboratively to end the cycle of abuse in families and to repair relationships.  Using Solution Focused Brief Therapy (SFBT), FBS gives families full control of their healing, alowing families to take small and manageable steps toward their bests hopes. Go to https://familybasedsolutions.org.uk/

Transcript

Sponsors And Community Partners

SPEAKER_00 0:23

Thanks to our sponsor, the Canadian Center for Brief Coaching and Family-Based Solutions. The CCBC provides workplace training programs, coaching, and consulting to organizations across various sectors worldwide. All with solution-focused coaching as the fundamental educational framework. For more, visit pracademia.com. That's pracademia.com. Thanks to our sponsor, Work Collaborative, a not-for-profit movement that helps schools lead change from within. They trust that teachers, leaders, parents, and students have the capability to solve their own challenges when given the right support. Join this global movement of educators at workcollaborative.com.

SPEAKER_02 1:13

Hi, everyone. Welcome to the podcast. Hi, Tara. How are you doing? Hi, good. Hi, Vicki. Really, really nice to be here today. And we have a very special guest, and her name is Sharon Casey. Hi, Sharon.

SPEAKER_01 1:29

Hi.

SPEAKER_02 1:29

Hi, Sharon. Great to have you here.

SPEAKER_01 1:32

I'm very happy to be here.

SPEAKER_02 1:35

Welcome. And I'd like to tell you a little bit about Sharon. Sharon Casey is a solution-focused trainer who works with schools, community groups, and health and social service agencies in Quebec, Canada. She has completed the brief coaching program at the University of Toronto OISE and has a background in education and crisis intervention. Sharon has worked with youth and adults in drug rehabilitation centers and at one of Canada's largest suicide prevention centers. She has been training and coaching practitioners in the solution-focused approach since 2018.

SPEAKER_03 2:14

Well, it's wonderful to have you here, Sharon. And we just kind of wanted to get started with a first question and ask you what first drew you to the solution-focused approach and what has kept it meaningful through for you through your work in education and crisis intervention and training others.

SPEAKER_01 2:46

I think what first drew me, I was exposed to solution-focused work at a time when I was really looking for alternatives for what I was doing. And I was really fortunate it was, it was, maybe it was destiny. My partner at the time was a social worker who was learning solution-focused brief therapy. And we were sharing a lot of work conversations. And I was reading some of the books she was reading, and I found it really interesting. And at the same time, I had just taken a job as a teacher in a residential drug rehab for young people. Our age range was 14 to 25 years. And I was working in a therapeutic community model where I'd actually been hired as a teacher. So I was the school, you know, Randy and I were the school. I taught the English and social sciences. Randy taught math and science. We had from nine to noon every weekday with a group of about, you know, 30 to 35 teenagers who were in residential drug treatment. And I was originally looking for solutions to help students who were really struggling academically and struggling with seeing themselves as students. These were kids with serious addiction problems. They had been kicked out of multiple schools, most of them. They were in a residential abstinence-based program, so they could not go to local schools. We had to school them on site because it was not considered safe for them to be in this environment where there were drugs and alcohol. And I was, I was really, you know, I had I was fairly fresh out of university with my Bachelor of Education. I was looking for more progressive ways to teach, and I saw kind of a parallel. And for me, it was the um the power of small successes. And I think honestly, solution-focused practice uh is sometimes a bit easier for people who have an education background to understand, perhaps, than some therapists. I think it's a bit closer to what we learn about good education and things that people have known about education for for you know decades. Um, so I was looking for something and especially could we harness the power of small changes? Because I was going to get small changes no matter what I did. I knew. And I had wanted to find techniques that would allow me to harness those and believe in them and feel like I was doing something that was really meaningful despite you know very difficult conditions. And I mean, I could give you an example if we have time.

unknown 5:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 5:08

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 5:10

Yeah. That the example that comes to me when I think about that is a young man who I'll call Dan, not his real name. Dan was 24 when he came to us, and he had a very serious alcohol problem, had been drinking heavily from about the age of nine. Um, grew up in a village, uh, you know, small rural community, bounced probably from relative to relative, no real intervention with youth protection when there should have been. And he just sort of struggled and managed to survive and found himself in rehab at the age of 24. At 24, he looked like a 45-year-old. And this was a young man who'd had a really difficult life. Um, and you know, I I couldn't approach him in a traditional problem-solving model where you try to understand what the cause of his problems are and where they come from, and you try to think about the symptoms. That would have been a disaster for both of us because he just had, you know, years and years of problems to work through. Um, and I really knew, you know, I knew if I don't know everything, I know this one thing that we can't go down that road. We can't frame him as a broken young man who is uh lost and broken and will never be okay. I have to find another way to think about him. Um, so and I knew, you know, from what I already knew about teaching and the bits of solution focus I was learning, I didn't want to find his problem compelling. I wanted to find him compelling as a person. So rather than try to diagnose, you know, where the difficulties come from, which was a strong current in the program or is working, I decided to be interested in what he wants. You know, what do what does Dan want to do? Uh and what Dan really desperately wanted to do was to read the biography of Janice Joplin. I had been given a small budget from the center. I went to a used bookstore and I bought a few hundred dollars worth of used books and I created a library. It was a new center had just opened, and he picked up the biography of Janice Joplin and he really wanted to read it. I think one of his uncles who taken care of him a bit was a Janice Joplin fan, and he was deeply invested in this. So, you know, rather than think about his past, what does he want instead? He really wants to, and then I could see all the opportunities. If he could read this book, he could maybe see himself as a reader. He could see himself as a learner. And this was a kid who, you know, at 24, he could barely read. Um, and so I, you know, put away the packaged modular curriculum that I had been sent from the school district uh because they were not really checking on that. They, you know, they didn't really care much of what I did. And his English class became reading the biography of Janice Jocal. And it took him months. And I taught, you know, I took what he already knew how to do. He had some basic literacy, uh, didn't know how to use a dictionary. I don't think he'd ever open one. So I taught him how to use a dictionary. And he went through that book painstakingly every day, reading, deciphering, chatting, asking questions. I think it took him four of the six months that he was in treatment to read that book. Wow. Um so, you know, what does he want instead? What skill does he already have? Uh, how can we build on that? And after four months, you know, not only I can't imagine having that kind of spectacular progress with package curriculum, he was deeply invested in the book. We talked about it. He started, you know, he wrote short texts about it, he talked to his friends about it, he was engaged in the literature. He he came to see himself as someone who could read, as someone who could be smart. And I don't know that I'll, you know, have I ever had a success that big and will I ever have one again? Perhaps not like that one. That was such a major breakthrough for me. Oh, yeah. And it was, you know, and that that really cemented it as this is an approach that allows me to be, and we didn't have that language that this is, you know, the night, you know, mid-90s, um, allows me to be trauma-informed, but not trauma-obsessed.

SPEAKER_04 8:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:58

I understood enough of his background to have compassion, patience, and know it to go slowly, but I didn't, I wasn't obsessed with his story. I wasn't, I I I tried not to, I tried to fight that human instinct to find his story compelling because it was. Um, and there's it, but I what I wanted to find compelling was the the resilience and his ability to survive and his ability not to give up and to set goals and to work hard. I wanted that to be more compelling than the movie of the week story that had kind of been his childhood. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:29

I you know what, honestly, I you know, you you one of the you you've been saying these amazing things. And one of the things you said was, I was going to get small changes. And when I heard you say that, I thought, well, how could she not get small changes when she frames it like that? I'm gonna get small changes, and that type of confidence that it's going to happen. So that really, really shone for me. And the other thing I wanted to say, Sharon, is this was by no means a small change. This was uh a mammoth accomplishment for this young man. And uh, I mean, probably life-changing.

SPEAKER_01 10:17

I think that's that's what solution focused practice helped me learn that what would otherwise be defined as a small change can be life-changing. Oh, if I had to write a report card for Dan, it would be, you know, he wrote a book. Um, and and he would not have, you know, I would not have been able to check all of the competencies on the curriculum. And he, you know, it's one book in four months. You know whatever I did with him was going to be a small change initially, but solution that that solution focused vision allowed me to understand how important and life-changing those initial small changes could be. And it really was a theme of the whole program. You know, we had an elaborate system of um group, well, I can't say therapy because we weren't licensed therapists, but group coachings, group meetings, and you know, there was a whole program to learn about understanding and expressing the most students. And there was a really detailed kind of therapeutic process. But what actually I think made a difference in those kids' lives was just being in a community with positive, helpful adults who believed in them and doing small things well.

unknown 11:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:29

You know, those those tiny um we could spend weeks working on what we thought of as the therapy. And I don't think we had as much success as the first time a 15-year-old boy took his mother down to the dorm on her first on-site visit and showed her his room with his bed made military style and his t-shirts folded perfectly in a pyramid, flushed to the edge of the shelf, and all of his personal effects in order, and a conversation with the teacher saying he's showing up every morning and he's doing a bit of schoolwork. You know, I think that that moment, that learning to see yourself as a kid who can do things, uh, having your parent be proud of you. I think that, you know, those anybody can learn to fold a t-shirt properly. It's not as easy as it looks, but you can learn it. And you can make that pyramid in your cube and you can make your bed, it takes a bit of practice. Those are small things, but they were massive in changing how those kids saw themselves and the interactions they had with others. And I think that's what really got me hooked. The idea that you could have a whole approach that would that would really be built around that, yeah of figuring out what people want, what they really want, what they can already do, building on it, and then just really harnessing that those incremental changes don't have incremental results. You know, those incremental changes can have massive results.

SPEAKER_03 12:49

Yeah, I mean, I everything that you're saying, I've just scribbled down so many notes, but it is just you know, really obviously resonates with us. And I just think it's so powerful, you know, and um, you know, people can assume that when we work with children, young people who've experienced significant trauma, that that that we that we need to go there, that to that, you know, that in order to support that person, that we have to take a sort of problem-focused approach. And I think what you're speaking to that's so profoundly important is that when we're trauma-informed, you know, there's sort of things like you said about going slowly, you know, harnessing small change, working in progressive ways, and that, you know, interested in what he wanted. Um and, you know, that it's just such a beautiful story. Um that he and I loved how you described how he was just deeply invested in the book. Um, it's just yeah, such a powerful example of the importance of, you know, we're putting people central, that it is it's about what do they want. Um and yeah, working in progressive ways. Yeah. Thank you for sharing sharing that story, Sharon.

Trauma-Informed Not Trauma-Obsessed

SPEAKER_02 14:18

So, you know, and I I just wanted to add that um I I love the way you said trauma-informed, not trauma-obsessed. Because, you know, that is that is something that can happen frequently when we're working with high needs individuals, you know, is that we kind of, you know, we paint them all with the same brush. And we say, oh, you know what, this child or young person has been through such trauma, and and we become invested in that trauma when really what we need to do is use it to inform ourselves and then move on from there. And and what you said was you said, I had to find another way to think about him. I wanted to find him compelling. How beautiful is that? You wanted to find him compelling, and you did, and you did.

SPEAKER_01 15:13

I think it's one of the it's one of the things that I really took away from the the program with Haysen at at OIZ is that the the just natural human tendency to be drawn to problems.

SPEAKER_04 15:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:25

You know, because in terms of evolution, we we survived as a species because we got good at paying attention to problems. And so it's so easy to fall into that trap. And for me, being trauma-informed versus trauma obsessed is more, it's what I tell myself, you know. You don't have to know a lot about trauma to know that kids who've been have a rough background need more patience, need more time, need you need to go more slowly. But I think you need something, you need to work a bit harder to to work on your your vision of them. Do I see him as a broken young man? Or do I see him as a strong and resilient and impressive young man? You know, and that for me is what being trauma and foreign means. It's it's using the knowledge to be even more impressed, using the knowledge of what they've gone through to look harder for their pursuit church, just to look harder for their skills and their strengths and their qualities.

SPEAKER_05 16:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:16

Um, and to really to, you know, to train myself to look at that instead of being dazzled by a very, you know, um a movie of the week. Like really, if if I if I get dazzled by the problem, there's a lot there. Um, and then I will drag him down with me by being too interested in that.

unknown 16:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:38

One of the things I say in training to my participants is, you know, the almost I know I never want to speak in absolutes, but almost nobody needs your help to understand the suffering and the problem. They pretty much got that. They live with that every day. They need your help, they need your interest and your help and your questions to help them see what's just behind the problem, what's under the problem, what's next to it.

SPEAKER_03 17:00

Yeah, you know, and so often children and young people, you know, have to tell their story, you know, too many times. And you know, children, I've had children say that I've just become numb to it, you know. For someone to come in and to ask what they want and um and to be curious about how they've managed, how they've coped, and to see, to have hope and possibility for them. Um is yeah, uh a much more powerful and meaningful way to work.

SPEAKER_01 17:36

When my when my daughter was about, I think, eight or nine years old, she was kind of trying to make sense of what her parents do for a living. And it's hard for a nine-year-old to explain that your mothers are solution-focused trainers. You know, if I had been a therapist, it would have been easier. Um, and as we're trying to explain what we do, she said, You mean like there's really people who think that if you just make them talk about all their problems, they're gonna feel better after? Wow.

Supporting Autism And Neurodiversity

SPEAKER_03 18:05

Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And just, you know, really curious to hear more about um your your work. And you know, uh, we're um you co-authored an incredible um chapter um in a book called Solution Focused Strategies for K-12 Leaders. And in that um you explore supporting students um with autism and neurodiversity, and be really interested to hear from you, Sharon. You know, what does that look like in practice? Um, and and what difference does that make for children and young people, um, particularly in the school context?

Turning Case Meetings Into Hope

SPEAKER_01 18:54

That was um one of my I think favorite projects since I've started doing this training work. Uh, I went since I was, you know, I had done a training at a regular high school, and uh one of the staff members there had been transferred to be the principal of the school. Uh and so she, you know, she kept hearing about me. And and at the time I had, I was known actually at that time for being a suicide prevention trainer. So she would say, Well, this what why are we asking this suicide lady to come and train us, you know, to manage difficult behaviors? And so I talked and I explained a bit about the approach, and she was really on board. And I came to that project really clearly as my expertise is not autism and intellectual disability. I I I know enough to do my job well, but I'm not an expert in that. And we agreed sort of from the outset that that was a real advantage because I wasn't coming in with preconceived notions about what the students could and couldn't do. Um, I was coming in, you know, being an expert in a process that could help them. And it really was, you know, and I had the advantage, I think, of working in a school where they were already, they already exhibited the kind of attitude and professional work that I helped other schools develop. You know, they were already very focused on what their students could do rather than what they couldn't do. Um, and I think it's, you know, I wasn't, um, honestly, because of my educational background, I wasn't sure about a special school for students with autism and intellectual disability because my educational training coming out through the 1990s was about uh inclusive environments, all school, all students in the same building. We don't have special schools that are different for students who have differences. But I'm being hired to help the school and I tried to go into it with an open mind. And and I realized as as much as I still, you know, like I retain reservations about this, I met a team that just genuinely loved working with these students instead of seeing them as an extra burden in my work that I don't need. Um, and who were because you know, this was their daily work, it was easier to uh to you know to to to develop with them a culture of seeing possibility rather than than problems, seeing ability rather than disability. And that was really interesting. So I could, you know, they they they kind of reinforced that aspect of solution-focused work. They already had the attitudes, but unfortunately, a lot of their tools were still pretty traditionally problem-solving, problem-focused. So what I helped them do was develop tools that would better align with their values and their beliefs about the students. Um, you know, for example, we we had, you know, the first change we implemented was meetings because it's always easier to change how you talk about students than how you talk to students. So you know that they were having weekly case conference meetings to discuss students who were having extra difficulty, and we changed that, uh, developed a protocol for doing that in a solution-focused way. And it was a radical shift that happened at the first meeting. You know, I chaired the first meeting, we went through the process, quite different than what the what they were usually doing, which is let's describe the problem for 40 minutes and then the bell will ring and we'll all go back to class. Um, we went through a whole process of identifying the student's strengths and abilities and what changes do we want to see for the student and what's already going well. And we scaled it and we went through that process, um, which for people who've got the chapter, um, can actually Download a copy of that process. And they left that first meeting feeling hopeful and feeling mobilized. And that was, you know, an incredible selling tool, if you like, of getting them curious about what else we could do with this. And so from that, I had training with the staff. Uh, and we probably the most successful thing we did after the meetings was we worked on how they could do classroom management in a solution-focused way.

SPEAKER_05 22:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:49

So, you know, rather than arriving and teaching their students how to function in class, they had uh a conversation with them about what they wanted their class to be like.

SPEAKER_05 23:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:01

And then developed a shared set of rules and values. And that conversation for some classes it was verbal, for some classes, it wasn't. Um, you know, there was a whole range of adaptations to meet their needs, but that that process really made a difference. And the teachers love the model because that's the kind of thing they wanted to do, but they were kind of stuck in older traditional tools that didn't really match their their values and their and their attitudes.

SPEAKER_03 23:29

Wow. I mean, that's just two, you know, quite uh simple and yet sort of profoundly impactful shifts, isn't it? And I've kind of written, you know, that change in in the structure of the meetings like so efficient, as well as being having a really powerful impact, um, I'm sure, on the outcomes of the meetings. But yeah, it's so true what you talked about, you know, so much time can be um spent and wasted talking about um the problems when, you know, when you're kind of focusing on strengths and disability and and abilities. And I loved what you said, um seeing ability uh rather than seeing disability. But yeah, just really, really yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:17

And and although not not dismissing difficulties either. No, yeah. It was also not going to work to talk to the staff team as though VAE difficulties didn't exist. They they were managing quite challenging behaviors. Um, so it, you know, there, but there's a way to center your discussion around things that help everyone. And we there's nowhere in that process where they were not allowed to talk about the difficulties, but we talked about it in a different way and we asked different questions and we put different things at the center of our discussion. And I think that's what really sold them that it wasn't um going to be, you know, unicorns and rainbows that we were going to be able to have real conversations. But if we took care of the structure of the meeting, then we could leave feeling more hopeful. And for me, that's always been a challenge. I've done that type of meeting in different types of schools, regular schools, high schools, elementary schools, uh, adult education centers, and sometimes the smallest step is just structuring the meeting. I've actually been invited to meetings where I wasn't quite sure who was in charge of the meeting. Um, you know, so so just saying we're going to introduce a process. And then once you do that, you can tweak that process in a way that makes people feel uh supported, listened to, but also helps them lead with something concrete they can do.

SPEAKER_05 25:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:35

Yeah. I I'm really curious about I I loved what you said about um in the classroom, establishing the norms for the class based on what the students wanted. And I'm uh quite curious about what was made possible in these classrooms with classroom norms that were created by the students, where they got to say, this is what I want my classroom to be.

Ownership That Generalises Beyond Class

SPEAKER_01 26:03

The example that I love best about, you know, and it's in the chapter, a classroom where most of the students didn't really communicate primarily verbally. And the teachers had a series of pictograms for desired behavior, and that was, you know, a big part of what they needed to learn. So they were going to learn these pictograms, what they meant, and how to increase those behaviors. That before long before I arrived, that was what they were doing in that class. Uh, and the element that I added was can you negotiate this with the kids? So the teacher went through the pictograms, made sure that they understood what all of them were, you know, demonstrations and role play so that you, okay, I know what all of these pictograms actually mean. And then she asked them to vote on which were the ones that were most important to them. And then from that, they selected a smaller number and those became their classroom agreement. These are the rules of our classroom. And the ones they, you know, we're going to be kind to each other, we keep our hands to ourselves, et cetera. The students actually determined which ones they felt were most important. And then they worked more intensively on those. And the teacher built a program. For example, if you noticed someone in the class who was demonstrating that behavior, well, you would at the end of the day, you would give them the pictogram and they would get recognized for having been a good model of that behavior. And that quickly, you know, that caught on like wildfire, you know, noticing that those behaviors got positive interactions and positive attention and helped with feeling connected and helped with friendship. They quickly all wanted to get the pictograms. Um, so you know, they had these actual not just setting up the agreement together, but then they had regular meetings where they decided as a group who should be recognized for effort to these behaviors. So it really um it was a small change to what the teacher was already doing, which I think is a really important for me when I'm when I work in schools. I can't come in with something that seems like a lot of extra work because the teachers I work with are just already so overwhelmed. So you're already teaching these pictograms. Can we add the agreement, having the students select the ones that are most important to them? And if we're going to recognize positive behavior, which the teacher was already doing, can we get the students involved in that? Can they recognize among themselves? So it was minor changes that didn't involve a lot of extra work, but that really pushed the resort results further than they'd ever had. And the principal who I worked with, um, Jennifer Nahukei was saying, you know, they they started to use these concepts outside the classroom, which for students with autism can be a real challenge to generalize those things. And they that generalization was happening. And I'll, you know, never I don't have a research protocol that proves it, but I'm just going to assume that it's because it belonged to them, because they felt ownership of it. It was easier to generalize beyond the classroom. It wasn't a thing that this teacher does, it was a thing that we do ourselves, and that makes it easier to carry it out of the classroom.

SPEAKER_02 29:06

Yes, because they actually had to stop and think about what is important to me. What do I want to choose first? And so it became it became more than just being told, oh, these are the competencies that you're going to focus on. So it became a personal exercise and and it also was a co-creation, essentially, between the teacher and the student. So they had they worked collaboratively together. So they were both engaged in this process. It's really, really beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 29:42

And I think from what I understand about people with autism or autistic people, I think both those phrasings are used by different parts of the community. So I try to use both, is that you know, when a lot of times they're going through a world where everything seems arbitrary. The rules of social functioning can seem very, very arbitrary to them. Same thing with people who have intellectual disability. So this is a way to make it. This is not an arbitrary external rule. This is my rule. This belongs to me and my friends and my group. And I think that, you know, especially important for those students, but important for all students, if it can be that helpful for students in that class, imagine how helpful it can be students who don't have the extra struggle of communication, you know, who have an easier time communicating.

SPEAKER_00 30:28

Thanks to Family-Based Solutions, a charitable organization that aims to end the cycle of abuse in families and to repair relationships using the solution-focused brief therapy method. They offer counseling services, support groups, solution-focused training, online support, and global leadership to those who need it most. Learn more at FamilyBasedSolutions.org.

SPEAKER_03 30:55

Yeah, absolutely. And to kind of add on to that, I loved what you said about you know going in and just building on what was working already, you know, what the teachers were already doing. And this this the tiny, tiny um minor sort of changes, the little tweaks, so respectful um to, you know, to to where you've said so much about what was already kind of um wonderful about the school, that they already focused on what children can do, and they loved working uh with the students. But yeah, I loved those. That's just so important about building on what they're doing already, on what they're doing already.

SPEAKER_01 31:41

And I had a I had the luxury of having a staff team that was, in terms of mindset, were really quite advanced. But I've done the same kind of work in other schools where the staff teams were struggling quite a bit more, and it really wasn't hard to get to that point with them either. If you, if I, you know, just slow down and listen beyond behind the you know symptoms of burnout behind the complaining, behind the frustration, the discouragement. You don't have to dig very far to find that all of those teams want their students to do well. They want things to be better. You know, it wasn't I I was able to do the same kind of work with teams who were nowhere near as solution focused starting out, and it wasn't that hard to get to the attitude because behind it, you know, everybody wants what's best for those kids. Even the people who were not sure they were in the right job, even the people who didn't remain teachers still while they were there wanted what was best for those kids. So you could, you know, if you can harness that and you can get people to try new things as long as you're sensitive. Yeah, you know, I don't want to stretch the word trauma in form, but as long as you're sensitive to their difficulties and they feel heard and validated in what's going on, you can tap into what they really want, which is for things to be better for everyone.

SPEAKER_05 32:51

Yeah, yeah.

Making Space For Every Student Voice

SPEAKER_03 32:56

Yeah. Oh, such powerful uh stories, Sharon, that your uh experiences that you're sharing with us. And um, you know, I yeah, I well, we would kind of love to hear more, you know, from you. And obviously you've spoken a bit about young people who may communicate differently, um, but and would love to hear some more examples about how you create space for their voice and you know, and really support a sense of ownership in a way that feels genuine and respectful.

SPEAKER_01 33:34

I I think the key is to meet them where they are, you know, and they it can be really concrete things like using pictograms instead of words, um but it can also be being generally interested in them as people and not as cases. You know, regardless of how they can if uh are they interested in drawing? Can they draw us a picture instead of answer a question? Um, who are their friends? What are their interests? What are their activities? What's their favorite movie? You know, being interested in who they are as people beyond the problems can help us find ways to communicate. Um, I think for for young people who have sort of a you know a diagnosed difficulty, people tend to know what to do to get around it. There are also a lot of students in elementary schools and high schools who, you know, are capable of verbal communication, but are just deeply uncomfortable talking with adults and in that kind of so so for them, can we allow other forms of expression? Can we have objects? Can we have um uh, you know, sand trace? Can we have can we draw? Can we use a whiteboard? Can we get up and move around? Can we do something? Uh can we do an activity together? Um, you know, some of my best interventions when I was working in the drug at the drug rehab were happened while we were, you know, I was peeling potatoes in the kitchen with the kid.

unknown 34:54

Right.

SPEAKER_01 34:56

You know, if we had, if we had a kid who most of our our residents are boys, if we had if we had a a boy who really we couldn't reach at all, we'd send them to work with Rick, our maintenance guy. And he would, you know, give them a tool belt and they'd follow Rick around and help out. And Rick was not a talker, but that that did, you know, that gave them a sense of pride and a sense of success, and they were recognized. And then it became a bit easier. So, you know, can we can we broaden what we think of as communication and look at creating genuine relationships? I think that makes a difference.

SPEAKER_03 35:31

Yeah, it really, really does. Yes. Makes me think of a a teacher in one of the schools that I uh work where there's a uh a student who has uh ADHD, and it's quite, you know, it's a challenge for him to be in the classroom. So she has him, he does the register, he kind of changes the slides for her presentation, and yeah, he he sits in her seat, he's kind of, you know, she's moving around and talking to people, he's kind of got this really important job and supporting her, and it's just so effective. I think you know, working creatively with people is just so important. And I love what you said about, and that's such a powerful part of solution focused, I think, is about meeting people where they are at, yeah, supporting them in their unique reality.

Authenticity As Classroom Leadership

SPEAKER_01 36:26

I think being authentic as well. You know, I learned very early, actually, before I even got into solution for the beginning of my teaching career, um, you are not cool and you never will be. And so just being your authentic self and demonstrating that you care. You know, my absolute first paid teaching gig, I was a substitute teacher. I'd gone back to my high school and I was replacing a teacher that I had had. Um, and her main means of discipline was screaming and humiliation. Oh, wow. And I walked into that room and I, you know, I just fresh out of school and thought, you know, this is going to be a disaster. And I looked, you know, and I was in my early 20s, I looked 15. I looked really young. I was, you know, small. So I thought, well, I'm gonna believe in them. I'm gonna believe in myself. And I started the first five minutes I sat on the edge of the desk and I explained why I became a teacher, why what was important to me, why I wanted to teach. Uh, and it wasn't just about the academics. I wanted to get to know young people and help young people. And this is what the class that had you know introduced itself as you know the there were numbers and letters, so we're nine D, D for demented miss, de for delusional, de for deranged. Like they were really invested in being a bad group, and they sat kind of, you know, awkwardly not knowing and listening after, and then the you know, it was uh and and it was fine after that. I I I was careful to maintain in a level of confidence, but I was authentic and I let them know showed who I was, yeah, and then I asked them to get their books out and get started on their work, and I didn't care if any work got done, and I walked around chatting with them and making, you know, trading little sarcastic, funny comments, and got through an entire period and everything was fine, you know. And it was it was that it was that authenticity. I didn't try to be uh a teacher from a Hollywood movie. I didn't try to be, I just showed them who I was and I was interested in who they were, and and I think that is really key as well.

SPEAKER_02 38:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:24

And and the fact, and I think, you know, when you say you were really interested, that that you know tells it all. The fact that you really wanted to be there, that you were really interested in these young people, that you wanted to be there for them and make this as um as beautiful an experience as you could for them. And um, and I I think that's just um amazing. And so I'm I as I as I'm looking at the clock, Tara, I are we ready do you think we're ready to question to you?

SPEAKER_03 39:04

It's not on the time, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:06

Yeah, and I have to say, Sharon, I I really, you know, I I could sit here and talk with you all day.

SPEAKER_01 39:13

I mean, this is um you don't want to give me that opening, Vicky. I will be here all day with you.

The Noticing Practice Teachers Can Try

SPEAKER_02 39:19

You know what? I love your stories and your experiences, and and there's that part of me that just wants to be that student in your class when you're leading the class, you know, and I I just um I want more of that for young people, regardless of their experience, regardless of of what it's they're experiencing in life, you know, I just want them to have um a really productive, engaging, and exciting uh and supportive experience at school. And and that's what um you've been providing for them. And that's also your intention behind everything that you do. So that's really exciting. Um so just in closing, the last question we'd like to ask you is for practitioners listening, what's one small shift they could make that might help them notice what's already working for both the young people they support and themselves?

SPEAKER_01 40:19

I think it's being really intentional about noticing. I would recommend uh, you know, for a teacher, for example, um, and I'm gonna be inspired by the work, work that Linda Metcalf is doing right now with her solution focused schools unlimited, it's a noticing project. Pick the three kids, you know, the one who doesn't talk, um, who doesn't participate, who just seems to fade into the background, the one who you've been warned about, the one you're really struggling to connect with, pick two or three kids and notice. Start the day noticing all the little things that they do well, the little signs of effort, moments where it could be bad, but it isn't, moments where it's not as bad, little breakthroughs, little kindness between students. Just take the time to start noticing all of those little things in a very intentional way. Uh, and I and I would add, you know, maybe try to pick one or two things that you could communicate home to parents, those parents who only get bad news from the school. You know, make a habit, give, make, put it in your agenda, create a little sheet, notice and maybe communicate a few of those things home and see the difference that it will make. I think that is a really powerful exercise that we can all use.

SPEAKER_03 41:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:24

Because it changes interactions.

SPEAKER_03 41:26

Yeah.

unknown 41:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:28

Yeah.

Final Thanks And Closing Sponsors

SPEAKER_03 41:29

Beautiful. Oh, well, Sharon, thank you so much for this wonderful conversation. I've like just got a piece of paper here just scribbled with so many things. Um, yeah, really, really wonderful. And thank you for joining us. Um, and Vicki, as always, lovely to spend the time with you as well.

SPEAKER_02 41:54

Always, always lovely.

SPEAKER_01 41:56

But yeah, thank you, Sharon. Thank you for giving me this opportunity. It's been really wonderful to talk to you, and I'll be back anytime you need me.

SPEAKER_03 42:04

Yay! That definitely so much. Part two. Well, thank you, everybody, for listening. Um, take care, and we'll be back soon.

SPEAKER_00 42:17

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