Building a Culture of Empathy & Connection; An Interview with Julie Magadance

Leaders shape culture by what they choose to value out loud. 'Kindness' doesn't always get center stage, but what if it is one of the most reliable indicators that a school community is healthy? We have a moving conversation with Julie Magadance, assistant director for counselling and guidance services in a large urban school district in San Antonio, Texas, and start with a moment from a graduation ceremony that stayed with her - where school leaders highlighted kindness as being the most redeeming characteristic of an entire graduating class, and celebrated the impact to the whole school community. 

Having supported young people from ages 4-18 in her capacity as teacher, school counselor and crisis intervention counselor, Julie reflects on how positive character traits such as kindness, unfold for all ages in environments of empathy and connection. As young people grow, the audience gets bigger, the social world gets louder, but the core need for safety, boundaries, mattering and belonging stays constant. Solution Focused conversations and interventions by school staff, counselors and caring adults, help students to support one another as they productively learn in inclusive spaces.

Join Julie's Solution Focused Online Peer Consultation Group which she co-facilitates with Sharon Casey and Erin Cusanno.  This group is for school based practitioners and leaders. Go to:  https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScP0LA0i7yes1SIjaMjibuAP-RO00gxE47e0czLnas9i1OAEg/viewform. 

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Work Collaborative, a not-for-profit movement restoring confidence in schools worldwide. Based on the best-selling book Change Starts Here by Shane Leaning and Efraim Lerner, Work Collaborative helps schools lead change from within instead of relying on external solutions. The collaborative’s approach trusts that teachers, leaders, parents and students have the capability to solve their own challenges when given the right support. If you're interested in solution-focused approaches that build internal capacity, join this global movement of educators at workcollaborative.com.

Instructional Coaching Group is the global destination for coaching in education, including instructional coaching and leadership coaching. Led by Dr. Jim Knight, ICG’s work is grounded in more than 25 years of research focused on improving teaching and strengthening leadership, with the ultimate goal of increasing student success. Through research-based learning and consulting, the Instructional Coaching Group partners with schools and systems worldwide to build sustainable coaching practices and programs that support schools. www.instructionalcoaching.com 

The Canadian Centre for Brief Coaching (CCBC) - Founded by Dr. Haesun Moon, is a company based in Toronto, Ontario, Canada.  The CCBC provides competency-based workplace training programs as well as coaching and consulting services to organizations across sectors, both in Canada and across the globe. Since its inception as a research body and think tank comprised of graduate students, subject-matter experts and community partners, the CCBC has evolved to provide programs and services designed  with Solution Focused Coaching as the fundamental framework. Go to: www.pracademia.com 

 Family Based Solutions is a charitable organization based in the UK and founded by Ayse Adil and Joe Lettieri. They offer counselling services, support groups, solution focused training, online support and global leadership. They work collaboratively to end the cycle of abuse in families and to repair relationships.  Using Solution Focused Brief Therapy (SFBT), FBS gives families full control of their healing, alowing families to take small and manageable steps toward their bests hopes. Go to https://familybasedsolutions.org.uk/

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:23

Our sponsor, the Instructional Coaching Group, is a global expansion for coaching and educators, grounded in more than 25 years of research focused on improvement, strengthening leadership, and increasing student access. The Instructional Coaching Group partners with schools and systems worldwide to build sustainable coaching practices that support educators

Sponsor Message And Opening

SPEAKER_03 0:46

and improve outcomes for students. Learn more at instructionalcoaching.com.

SPEAKER_04 0:54

Hi everyone. Hi Tara. Hi, Vicki. Hi, Julie. We've got Julie Magadance as our guest with us today. Hi, Julie. How's it going? Hi, y'all. How are you doing? Hi, Julie. Good. Really nice to have you on board today. I think the last time we saw each other, Julie, was uh at the SFBTA conference last November in Toronto. In fact,

Meeting Julie And Her Work

SPEAKER_04 1:17

we were all there together. Yeah. So it's really, really nice to have you back and to be able to connect again today. Uh and to hear your story because uh I think, you know, we we had a few different conversations at the conference, but um, you know, I didn't really hear your story, and I and I know that you're doing amazing work, and so that's what we're here to talk about today. Um, I'd I'd really like to start with reading your bio, uh, a very impactful bio with um a great history in education and um the work that you've done as a teacher and counselor, and now um as an assistant director. So I'm just gonna read the bio out. Uh Julie Magadan serves as the assistant director for counseling and guidance services for a large urban school district in San Antonio, Texas, where she supports 150 school counselors across 65 campuses, serving over 50,000 students. In addition to her district leadership, she maintains a small private counseling practice. Julie

Julie’s Bio And Context

SPEAKER_04 2:24

began teaching 25 years ago and later transitioned to school counseling. She has served as a school counselor and crisis intervention counselor at the elementary, middle, and high school levels across all pre-K to 12 grades. Her connection to the world of education extends into family life. Her husband is a high school principal, and together with their two college-age children, they prioritize traveling and have been lucky to visit and learn about schools in other countries along the way. A foodie of her own sort, Julie loves eating her way through her travels and spends her free time baking and cooking at home. I can really relate to that.

SPEAKER_02 3:02

I was just about to say I went off to my own heart.

SPEAKER_00 3:05

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:15

Oh, it really is wonderful to have you here, Julia. And I really, as Vicky said, we you know, we had the opportunity to meet um in in Toronto at the SFBTA conference, and I thoroughly enjoyed spending time with you and your husband and everybody else. But it yeah, it was a really um wonderful experience and uh wonderful conversations. So to be able to have another conversation with you and have you on the podcast is a real privilege. So thank you for joining us. So to get us started, before we kind of talk more about you know your what your incredible work um and and the story about your work um, you know, from past to present, I just wanted to kind of ask you could you share a recent moment um in a school that stayed

Graduation Season And A Kind Class

SPEAKER_02 4:07

with you, something that felt meaningful or unexpectedly hopeful?

SPEAKER_00 4:13

Yeah. Well, as we were kind of checking in earlier, it is um it's graduation season around here. Um, and I I have to say, this was one of those questions that was like, oh, this is a hard question. And it's so funny, I think, because um, you know, I I wish that I was in schools more than I am now. Um, and I think that's something, you know, of its own topic to have conversation about. But um I do get to, or I was able to be in school some now, um especially at the end of this year, in a different way. And I think probably for you guys it's the same. We don't get to be in school very often when we're not in our sort of educator role. Um, but we got to during this last graduation season because our daughter graduated. And so um it was the end of high school for us. Um, and I remember sitting at her commencement, um, and there was just this theme, um, and it was a couple weeks ago now, where it was this acknowledgement that her class and that this this group of graduating students has figured out how to be kind to one another. Kindness is just like it is the description that everyone at the commencement used to talk about this this group of graduates. Um, whether it was the student speakers, you know, or it was the faculty speakers, or it was the school or and district leadership, everybody just kind of kept coming back to this theme of kindness during this commencement. And it was so funny because you know, there were all these credentials that were there, you know, students with all these honors and going to all these universities and all of this stuff. And yet the overwhelming theme was that this class was nice to each other.

SPEAKER_01 6:05

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 6:05

So that I think that's helpful. That is, you know, this understanding that school has a whole lot of purposes, but really the fundamental thing is helping and making sure that people are coming out to become part of the world that we're all in, um, to to be with each other and for each other. And um so I remember walking away that night thinking they're gonna be okay. These kids know each kind of each other, you know. Um, so yeah, that was my moment, Cara. I think something helpful. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:45

Thank you for sharing that with us. And I think, yeah, speak for Vicky and I. And that that's just so important. I think I read a paper earlier today, I haven't read it all uh yet, but that Linda Metcalf wrote that in all her years of doing uh of working in schools, she talks about, and I can't give it complete credit because I hadn't had a need to go back to it, but what she talked about what's important is connection. And what you have described is it really speaks to that, isn't it? You know, when young people, when we are kind to each other, you know, when we we connect, we relate. And I love what you said that you could walk away from that based on that experience and that being the dominant factor, that they will be able to.

SPEAKER_04 7:37

And of course, the receiver of kindness is feeling that appreciation. So, you know, knowing that when we give kindness to other people, that when students give kindness to each other, their peers are receiving that kindness, and so they're feeling appreciated. And we know that when we feel appreciated, um we we feel that we matter and belong. So how important is that in schools, you know?

SPEAKER_00 8:10

Right, right. Well, and you know, as I um look through any of the the questions that you guys shared um that we might talk about today, it's it's funny to me that every answer came back to that word, Tara, about connection. Um and I think that is um we can appreciate each other so much more when we are connected, because those connections then they buoy the next connection, right? Um, and so it's this network, this web of of relying on each other, but in a good way. This is not relying on each other because we are that's all we have or something, but relying on each other because we know we can. Um and there's something really safe about that and something really um, I guess hopeful, but also helpful about that because shoot, we know we cannot do any of this by ourselves. And so if you have that connection, that web of security to lean on, boy, it makes any of those little steps a little bit easier, I think. Um and to figure that out as a student, that's super helpful for them too, right? Because I don't know that I knew that at 17 or 18.

SPEAKER_04 9:31

Yeah, and I I think too, as I'm hearing you talk, I I have to applaud the person who was sharing that with the school community to say our graduating student class is just so kind. So the importance of that person in their authority to stand there and say that and for their students to be hearing it and to know that they're making a difference, right? Um how valuable is that?

SPEAKER_00 10:05

Yeah, yeah, and that that is, I think, the key there is that there was a choice to highlight that thing, you know, uh among the things that were that were mentioned. Um it did, that's exactly right, Vicky. It added value to that characteristic in a way that not saying anything, it would have been this, you know, it's still true that that class was kind to each other, right? But it's more true, I don't know, or I it just makes it it it highlights the value of kindness in a way that um maybe we've we just haven't been lately, or maybe ever, I don't know. Um but bringing that value of um of kindness and of of connectedness, right? Making that a a more valuable part of all of the things that we do in the world, um, instead of it just being all the things that are tangibly able to be counted, right? Um yeah, that yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:11

And and the thing is, is that when kindness and that connectedness is is kind of the is paramount and the emphasis is there, then actually the outcomes, you know, all of the tangible things and you know the educational achievements are more achievable because once more are connected and they feel cared for and they feel noticed and understood, then they're gonna be able to achieve more, you know. And I I love what you described about there being a web. And I've got this kind of vision of this web as these children, as these adults, younger, as they step out of the school environment, that that web is just going to spread, you know, because they're taking it with them. And to think it's a contagion, it's contagious, isn't it? You know, it's and that that will to think that that kindness can spread more um outside of that school environment and just keep spreading, you know, that makes me hopeful um for the future for for for the next generation. Yeah, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_04 12:19

And I just I just want to add one more thought because I I just think that this is this is so valuable what what you brought up here, Julie. And that is that you know speaks to leadership, right? And the difference that a leadership makes when they value their students, and as you were saying, Tara, not just for academics, but for who they are as individuals and and some of their character traits, and the character traits that show compassion. And um, and you know, that so again, I I think that if our school leaders can be doing more of that, then we we do have more resilient communities and we do have students who want to be at school more and you know, who don't present with as many sort of grievances or disengagement or or whatever it is, but that they want to be there because they know that they're being valued. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 13:22

Yeah. And what a nice thing to be the manager of then, instead of all the things that could be hard. Instead, you're managing students who are glad to be there, who want to continue to explore new things, who want to learn new things, who, you know, want to try something that's different or be curious about it, instead of managing the absenteeism or the late to class or the fighting, or you know, um not that those things are gonna go away altogether, but um just what a different way of approaching work then, if that's what you if you get to prioritize that.

SPEAKER_04 13:59

Um yeah. Yeah. So I'm going to segue into another question. And this is um about a little bit about your career. So you began your career as a teacher and you've worked across every school level over the last 25 years. How has that journey shaped the way you see young people and their needs?

SPEAKER_00 14:24

So I guess I should start off by saying it wasn't something I um started

Teaching To Counselling Across Ages

SPEAKER_00 14:28

out planning on. I wasn't thinking I was going to try to work pre-K through 12th grade, that I was going to experience the whole spectrum of you know the American education system on, you know, pre-secondary or pre-um college level stuff. Um, but funny enough, I actually even did at one point spend a semester sort of as adjutant faculty at the university level. So maybe I need to expand my resume now that I'm thinking about it. Um, but it I started off as a high school English teacher and loved that work. You know, that was um really engaging and fun, um, being in the classroom with students. And it's so hard. Being a teacher is it is the hardest job there is. Um, and then I after a few um doing that for many years or some years, um, then our kids were born. And so I ended up taking some time off to stay home with them. Um, and then when I went back, I had finished my counseling degree, and so I went back as a high school counselor, um, but wasn't there very long because we of the system that we work in, my husband was actually named the principal of the school where I had been serving as the counselor, and so he had to fire me because I couldn't work for him, or as our daughter said at the time, well, daddy can't tell you what to do. And so that was our big joke at home, you know, of course not. Um, but so when I left the working there at that high school, the only opening that the district could offer me was at an elementary school. I had never taught in an elementary school, you know, our counseling certificate or credential is for all levels. And so I was able to go do that, but I had never been in elementary school before. And so suddenly there I was with four-year-olds. I had been working with 12th graders most recently. I went to working with four-year-olds through fifth grade, which is about 11 years old. Um, and it was just such a difference from the work I had been doing, and so refreshing and so interesting. Um, talk about experts in their fields, elementary school teachers. They know everything because they have to, you know, they they teach all the subjects and they are with the kids all day long. Um, I have, I was able to see and have this amazing respect for teachers at the elementary level. Um, and then I really got to understand in practice all that theory that I had learned in my coursework about child development and about, you know, acquisition of language and knowledge and all of that kind of stuff. I had no idea how any of that worked at the elementary level. And so getting to be with four-year-olds and seven-year-olds and see what it was like for them, um, that was just amazing. I loved seeing the um how students grow and change at each of those different developmental levels. Um, I feel really blessed to have seen it in action. I can talk now about what parallel play looks like because I watched kids do it, you know, and learn how um how to interact with their friends. I was able to talk with students about making friends on purpose and things like that. And then I moved to middle school and spent uh some time there working in middle school as a counselor and was able to see that really interesting and challenging time. Um and they are that in in America that is, you know, 12 to 14 or 15, really the really difficult, I would say, most difficult time. Um, and yet the needs of those students are the same as the elementary school students. They're just a little bit bigger, you know. And so um then again, I went back into high school and did some more high school counseling before coming to uh the central office level. Um, but that question of what is, what do I know now about student needs, I think as I was kind of thinking about that question, it it dawned on me that the needs are really the same for four-year-olds as they are for our 18-year-olds leaving school. They just have a bigger audience, I think. So our four-year-olds, they need to know that they are, Tara, back to your word, connected. They need to have that connection with that caregiver who's dropping them off in the morning, um, sometimes handing them off to me, really unsure that they want to stay with me, right? And figuring out ways to build that connection. So they need to know that they can trust the person they're being held, you know, handed off to, um, that they can develop a connection with that person and with their friend who's next to them playing. And then as they get bigger and bigger, those connections just become a bigger audience. So then their needs are connecting with the friends sitting at their table with them, the friends in their classes with them, their, you know, people on the team. So it's I I guess sort of in my head, it's looking like a tree tree rings growing, you know, as kids grow over those those years. Um that the connections just have a wider audience. Um, and then hopefully they they have mentoring um in terms of being being able to see the models of how adults connect with each other in the different ages, um, because that adds another layer of audience, I think, too. Um yeah, does that yes that answer?

SPEAKER_01 19:47

Yeah, yeah. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 19:48

Yeah, it's such a beautiful way to describe it. And and I yeah, I kind of wrote down, you know, same but bigger needs, you know, and and then that wider audience. And I think that's I think that it's the same for all of us, isn't it? No matter what how old we are. Yeah, as you were talking, I just kind of thought uh what you were describing was at every level, you know, and that middle school as well, that 12 to 14, sort of at every sort of stage that you're seen. And you know, it kind of makes it really simple, doesn't it? Really, you know.

SPEAKER_00 20:30

Um it sure could, couldn't it? Yeah, yeah. I I find myself um you know wondering if it is that simple. How uh how do we ensure that it happens um to be seen and to feel connected at every level?

SPEAKER_03 20:51

Um and I don't know if it's just numbers that makes it hard, or if it's if there's a lot of other I'm thanks to our sponsor, the Canadian Center for Brief Coaching, the CCBC provides workplace training programs, coaching, and consulting to organizations across various sectors worldwide, all with solution-focused coaching as a fundamental educational framework. For more, visit academia.com. That's racademia.com. Thanks to our sponsor, Work Collaborative, a not-for-profit market that helps schools in. Join this Global Movement of Educators at workcollaborative.com.

SPEAKER_02 21:57

Actually, students say like boundaries as well, don't they? And actually throw out, you know, from that from from being a baby, you know, to that four-year-old and all the way through school. Often young people and children will, you know, and young people who can articulate this that will want to they love the respect for uh

Boundaries Belonging And Safety

SPEAKER_02 22:19

teachers, the ones that see them, the ones that are kind to them, the ones that listen, but they also like, you know, when there's boundaries. You know, that's part of connection as well, isn't it? You know, it's being you you spoke earlier about being safe as well, creating safety. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 22:38

Yeah. And it it also, I'm also thinking about mattering and belonging, right? That they they all want to know that they matter and that they belong, you know, no matter what, that it it that um that there is that spirit of of inclusion, right? That uh we all come from different walks of life, different backgrounds, different family situations, cultures and so on, and that it's all okay and that we're being respected and um you know regarded with high esteem for who we are. And so I think that that young people really want to know that that that that's part of that safety. Right.

SPEAKER_00 23:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:24

Well and it's that you know I guess that net or that web of connectedness, you know, the safety comes from that same web, that same network, right? And um Vicky to your point, it maybe it is that diversity and the our our differences that come and make that web stronger. You know, um when we weave in our experiences from various other people suddenly that web has a a wealth of um of experience based on strength that can be shared. You know, and not I don't know that we necessarily you know get the same thing as the person who experienced it, right? They um but we can share those experiences as a way of just sort of opening up the possibility for others to know that um something that has happened or something that I have um either endured or something that I have experienced, when I share just a little bit of it with you, then you can have that same kind of strength that can come from it or you can have at least a little glimmer of the strength that can come from it, even if you don't go through it yourself. I think I used to teach that with you know in the English classes I would teach the Greeks had that whole idea that if we went, if we watched a play happen on the stage, we wouldn't have to go through those things ourselves, but we could kind of learn the emotional toll of that experience and having that same ability to build our network of connectedness to include the experiences of others even if we haven't experienced them ourselves we can have that empathy and understanding to kind of add that richness to our own experience even if we haven't experienced it ourselves. So maybe that's another little benefit of the connectedness that we can get.

SPEAKER_02 25:10

Yeah I and I sometimes you know not to be sort of problem focused but I think sometimes that gets lost when there's particularly around children where there's issues around behaviour. You know I think that that can get a little bit their stories, their experiences um you know if the emphasis is on it's sort of more kind of managing behaviour and and more punitive that we can lose sight of their stories and makes it more difficult to have empathy. So I think that how you're describing connection and that web and the importance of of that connectedness, I don't know, it just makes it seem just very doable and um quite simple for people to be able to remember you know the importance of having empathy for some of the things that these for their stories you know not to be lost in the school system.

SPEAKER_00 26:17

Yeah I'm to and I I'm wondering if because you know as a counselor you were working with students one-on-one and I would imagine now in your capacity your regional capacity uh I would imagine you're working with a lot of counselors uh one-on-one in and in groups um how

Solution Focus In Real School Work

SPEAKER_00 26:39

do you use solution focus to build that culture of empathy and understanding and and connect connectivity yeah um mostly um it has been for me a an a way to to do the thing that I that I have figured out is the most helpful which is to to try to really be present in each one of those moments and each one of those um experiences or you know meetings as possible. I I think the when we're able to be present then we do things like um like help people to figure out what it is that they most need from this time together. We do things like try to listen with curiosity instead of having the answer. We also look for exceptions. I think a lot you know a lot of the time that we spend is um very much problem focused I think because that is when we are called or when I am called you know I'm called when there's a question about what to do or how to do it or that kind of thing. And so it is inherently sort of I've got a problem I need to call and figure out what to do and we do consulting. And also the truth is that there are a hundred million different times that they're not calling and you know so what what are things that are happening in their world that they're figuring all this stuff out without needing to call or without um there being a challenge there I guess. And so a lot of exception finding um and and how they're managing to work together to to solve things like that kind of stuff I think those are the practical like what am I doing every day that is solution focused. When I was working with students it was very much an intentional switch in the way that I I worked with students individually in my office. And it you know it started I think as a a way of trying to have a more kind of intentional approach to times when students came in you know working as a crisis counselor um meant that my my day was very much unscheduled and so it was responding to things that happened in the moment that they happened. And so when students came in trying really hard to be sure that I was in that moment intentionally trying to put aside anything else that might have been on my to-do list, you know, because although there was a to-do list it was really important to set aside anything and and really try to be present in the moment with them. And taking a solution focused approach to that meant that we could also do that really important thing which was trying to get students back to the academic setting as quickly as we could because that was the reason that they were at school right and so it was helpful for us to be able to use I used the solution focused approach for that purpose very much was let's figure out what's happening now that is getting in the way of you being able to you know be an algebra or whatever. And so then getting back to class they went back feeling better I felt better and I wasn't taking this heaviness with me into either the next moment with a student or into the rest of my to-do list or that kind of thing. So yeah solution focus has been a game changer for us. And I think it's the reason that I wanted to share it with the rest of the counselors that now I get to work with and we've done that really intentionally trying to bring solution focused training into the department and into our district and and we're continuing to do that. And I all the feedback that we've gotten really has been that it's been very helpful for folks. I still want to do more of it you know um but it's been very helpful so far.

SPEAKER_02 30:57

Yeah. That's so wonderful to hear you know when I was kind of looking at your bio and even looking at the the the question that we were going to ask you around that you're well that you support 150 school counsellors across 65 campuses. And I mean to hear that you are sharing obviously we're really biased because we love it but we but we know that it works and that you are sharing the solution focused approach with all of those people and that many schools is just incredible. And you know listening to you talk about how you turn up into conversations really intentionally sort of really focusing on what people want and and those exceptions on what's working and and that you come away from those interactions feeling more you know better and hopeful and that and that the child goes off feeling able to go back into the classroom and to think about the impact that you're having you know across all of those schools is just incredible.

SPEAKER_00 32:09

Yeah yeah I think we've been really lucky um you know we started off kind of small small potatoes in terms of solution focus we um really went with just switching our crisis response stuff and giving tea uh giving counselors a different tool a different way of approaching crisis response with students um and that made a really big difference and so then it meant that we could start bringing it into other aspects of the counseling work um and the goal now is to figure out how to look at all the different parts of counseling work I tend to be pretty biased toward the responsive services and sort of individual counseling side of what school counselors do. But the truth is school counselors have a whole bunch of other stuff in terms of individual planning and making sure students graduate and have all the courses that they need and that kind of thing. And so now the goal kind of going forward is how do we bring solution focused into each one of those aspects as well? So what does it look like to have a solution focused approach to picking courses you know when you're sitting with a student to say at the end of this year if you've picked a schedule full of classes that is the right schedule for you how will you know you know what what courses are the ones that you are most curious about giving a try and um just changing some of that language a little bit as as counselors are thinking about the academic side of things I think is going to be a really neat challenge. And then also the bringing it into teacher conferences, you know, when a teacher comes into a counselor's office and says I've got this student and I just don't know what to do and helping to helping counselors to be able to use solution focused approaches in that conversation with teachers so that they're not going down that rabbit hole of problem focused talk and and really helping teachers to come to grips with what it is that would be the most bang for their buck, you know, in this in this interaction with the student going forward. Again I think it's self-preservation for the counselors because they won't get dragged into so many things that are um emotionally really uh heavy um but it also it means that they're going to be able to sort of be a walking alongside teachers and students or whoever it is rather than being the ones kind of leading the way um and I think that that can be really a it can be really a difficult place to be if you are the one who's supposed to know how to fix something. And I I I hope that for counselors that that could be a a change for them is that they don't have to be the ones who necessarily know how to fix everything.

SPEAKER_04 35:01

Yeah yeah yeah yeah I I really like what you said about walking alongside that's a very difficult thing to do for somebody especially for the counselors who have a background in teaching right because teachers are you know very usually very directed it's about teaching it's about guiding it's about fixing and you know lots of advice giving and that sort of thing. So you know that's a love one of the lovely things about Solution Focus is that it really helps individuals to move away from that advice giving stance and to learn how to walk alongside. And so that's so valuable for the counselors and how amazing that you're providing them with these skills and that you know you're you're really you're sort of making your way you're trying to infuse this throughout a region a very large region um school district so I I think uh that that's really very valuable.

SPEAKER_02 36:00

It's important work. So I think we have like one final question for you Julie and um so which it feels like the conversation's gone far too quickly and could talk for hours with you but um looking across your work and leadership in schools what feels most important

Assuming Best Intentions In Education

SPEAKER_02 36:22

for you to protect or strengthen right now you know I wonder um I find myself wondering if if there could be um a way to really strengthen and again I I kind of go back to Vicky's way of looking at it a way to um increase the value of right increase the value of um assuming best intentions from all those people that we are in this work of education with um because that's and that's not just employees in the schools you know it's it's every there are so many I mean really education is society I guess is the truth but um if we could see value again or place higher value um in assuming best intentions from the student to student interaction teacher to counselor interaction um family to school employee you know interaction I wonder if it would mean that we could spend less time feeling defensive or needing to um you know uphold a position or defend uh something and more time on whatever it is that's actually the thing that we need to figure out.

SPEAKER_00 37:52

I wonder if that could be the thing that would be worth strengthening right now. And I I think it's it's also kind of ironic that that's one of the things I wonder about because it sort of already sets me up then against as a you know us and them kind of thing. So me against those who are not assuming best intentions I'm kind of setting up a a verses uh thing but I wonder if I if I can get my head around that and not be trying to defend the need to be you know not defensive or something um then I can maybe I can work my way around it. But I I think the truth is we all have we all just want young people to be able to figure out how to be in this world in happy and um helpful ways to others to be in community with each other um that is that's our hope for education you know and the the truth is that is why we're all doing this you know whether it's parents who are sending their students to school each day or it's um you know counselors who are meeting the students in the classrooms and in the counseling offices each day we are all here to help and to make sure that kids successfully get themselves through the school day and get to the end of their schooling, you know, 13 years later as productive people ready to be part of our worlds um be part of our our network that we talked about, right? Our our um web of stuff and um and if we can just remind ourselves that we all have that same goal and assume that everybody is doing what they're doing because of that goal then um I think that could be a that could be a game changer.

SPEAKER_01 39:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:39

So thank you.

SPEAKER_02 39:42

And that kind of as you're talking what I was just started thinking about and was coming sort of full circle to the beginning of our conversation with what you shared. Yeah I suppose the question my question to you was like okay so how? And then I was like so what was the the key ingredient? What what is it about your daughter's year group? What is it about your daughter's school? What is it about as the key you know asked about the leaders you know every and you spoke about everybody that spoke about graduation spoke to the kindness that's what stood out that's what you walked away with you know and I wonder what that you know school more schools looked like that more schools experienced that across their communities what difference that would do you know that the defensiveness would would lessen you know uh because you know what are the ingredients um that yeah that we could share with people to enable uh a greater sort of span of of kindness and connectedness as you have spoken to you know so beautifully thank you for that for that full circle Tara that was really that was so nice to to hear that in the moment that that's essentially that's where we began and and we're effectively still talking about that so how it's so incredibly valuable and important isn't it and I'm just wondering uh you know before we before we go if we just take one moment if there was just a few words that you would like to share with our listeners Julie uh just that they can walk away with today what what would they be?

SPEAKER_00 41:48

I guess to encourage myself and others to just to slow down um I think if I can remind myself of that and and ask others to do that, hold me accountable a little bit to slow down, um it could be helpful to be able to then be able to remember to assume

Slow Down To Notice Connection

SPEAKER_00 42:10

best intentions, look for the kindness that were that is out there available to us be able to feel the gratitude from others and be able to recognize when connections are happening. If we slow down a little bit and maybe that stuff is a little bit more likely to happen. But I need reminders too so if I could ask that of everybody um that I run into remind me to slow down also take a moment.

SPEAKER_03 42:42

Yeah yeah thank you for that because yeah we all need that too we all need that when you slow down you can notice more yeah and you can notice more oh that's it right there Tara oh well thank you for a beautiful conversation it's been really lovely to spend the time and uh I'm just wondering Julie

Links Thanks And Closing

SPEAKER_03 43:04

do you have um are there any links that I can put in your bio for this podcast episode um that you we can direct our listeners to for example um the online group that you're doing for counselors to you know for counselor support um if you could provide us with that link that would be amazing and any other link that you might have sure absolutely I will share those things with you thank you thanks very much well thank you very much and thank you to okay take care bye bye great to see you thanks to Family Based Solutions a charitable organization that aims to end the cycle of abuse in families and to repair relationships using the solution focused brief therapy method they offer counseling services support groups solution focused training online support and global leadership to those who need learn more at familybased.org