The Lyric and The Light
A weekly space where faith and music meet. Each episode, we will take one song- from timeless hymns to modern worship- and pair it with the living truth of Scripture.
The Lyric and The Light
Two Friends Confront Rejection And Find Grace In Scripture And Song
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Coffee, Prayer, And Nerves
SPEAKER_03Hello. Good morning. Good morning. Welcome back to the lyric and the light. We didn't even practice that. Yes. Hi, Five. I don't think they'll be able to hear it because we blocked out the background sounds. Welcome back for episode officially kind of episode one because we did an introduction episode last time. Well, episode 1.5.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, why not? How are you doing today? Good. Good? Yeah. All right. You want to get us started in prayer? Yep. Ha ha. You're on the spot. It was me last time, so let's go.
SPEAKER_02Father God, thank you for bringing us here today together to talk about friendship. Talk about music. Talk about scripture. Have some coffee and you know, just being a space with you. And our listeners. We pray for each and everyone listening. We know that some hearts are heavy today. We just ask that you blink at us in your comfort, in your care. Amen. Amen. Sorry, I'm an awkward player too.
SPEAKER_03That's well, that's okay, then we will struggle bust our way through this together. So we definitely need help with that. Yeah. So what's been going on with you this week? So we know where we're coming from.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I mean, it's been a good week, really. So I mean, I'm I'm feeling good today. No, I'm not. I'm not feeling good today. I'm feeling really out of sorts. I'm I'm struggling with this. I'm struggling with the podcast. You know, we just talked outside of the before we started that I'm I'm second guessing everything, I'm picking everything apart, and you know, this doesn't sound right, that I didn't didn't like that. I don't, you know what I mean? I think I'm putting too much pressure on something that was supposed to be two friends having coffee and talking and laughing and sharing music and scripture, you know, and I'm I'm putting like I don't know, some label on it, or you know, I don't know. I think I'm being too hard on myself, probably. So definitely. Definitely.
SPEAKER_03I yeah, definitely, because I and I told you this morning on your way here that the people who are listening are either here because they love us and they want to support us, or the ones who are here just being nosy nellies, hoping, hope, hoping, hoping, no hoping, hoping we're gonna fail, which you just were right. Congratulations.
SPEAKER_00Because crash and burned.
SPEAKER_03The joke's on you. You're getting to us. I'm just kidding. But the ones who the ones who want to see you fail, there's nothing you can say right that they're gonna clap for anyway. So congratulations. If that's why you're here, you know, you're you're gonna be just thrilled at how this is going so far.
SPEAKER_02So let's talk about the heart of that then. Let's talk about judgment. Yeah.
Feeling Judged And Left Out
SPEAKER_02Let's do that. Yeah. I'm feeling it from all sides right now.
SPEAKER_03Not this side.
SPEAKER_01Oh, I love you.
SPEAKER_03Can't see it, but I'm making a dog dog face at her right now. I am a golden retriever, but that's not for everybody either. So I get it. Only for me. No, I am a golden retriever for everyone, but not everyone enjoys that aspect of my personality. Some people find it really annoying.
SPEAKER_00It can be, but yeah, I'm sure.
SPEAKER_02I'm kidding. I love you.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so let's talk about judgment.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Feeling feeling judged and not liked and not good enough. And it's probably a good, a good place to start with my past couple weeks. Not, you know, not getting chosen for things and and not feeling like you're a part of something. And I struggle with that, and I feel like I've struggled with that since I was a child. I I told you, like being in fifth grade, not getting picked for the dodgeball team, always lasts to get picked. And I've been feeling that from different um areas of my life right now.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Well, you know who you are chosen by. The Lord. Yes. Yeah. And he is he is the one who it at the end of the day, this is all just a flash in the pan. Right. And he's the one who is going to be just loving on you, who's telling you that you are worthy, you are a daughter of a king, you're redeemed, forgiven, yeah, loved.
SPEAKER_02I mean, punch you in the face right now.
SPEAKER_03Why? Uh isn't the golden retriever thing.
SPEAKER_00It is sitting here playing.
SPEAKER_03Sorry in my face. I am licking me like, ooh. Oh, don't tell people I'm licking you. Giving kisses. Yeah, nope, definitely not doing that either. Thanks a lot. Dion. Uh it's not that kind of podcast. It's not that kind. It's not not well, not the kind of podcast Dion. Don't tell people I'm licking you. They can't see what's happening over here.
SPEAKER_02She is she is a very positive, uplifting friend to have. So I try. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I try. There's there's enough that breaks us down, but I get it. I mean, I'm not chosen all the time either. Yeah. We talked about that too. I mean, neither one of us really wants to be left out. Nobody likes feeling left out except my husband. But even he that's me. Even he the captain of the introverts. No, even he was a little, a little hurt to be not asked to participate in things that he feels like, you know, he's pretty sturdy. He shows up, he doesn't complain. He's not a troublemaker, you know. So he seems like he'd be an easy ask when it comes time to serve. And no matter how many people he was recommended to or have recommended him for this particular job, he was not asked.
SPEAKER_02Here's where I get conflicted with myself, though, is that I say, Oh, I didn't get picked for something, but and then I go, but I don't care, you know, because I but I do care, you know.
SPEAKER_03But you didn't want to go, but you wanted to be asked to go. Yeah. Yes.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. FOMO, you know, fear of missing out, and you know, especially if all your friends are picked, or you know, so yeah. Um I'm just struggling with that right now. And it's not even in just one area, there's several things going on right now in my life that I'm just feeling left out of. Yeah. And it hurts. And I hate that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. So I'm sorry that you're feeling that way. Thanks. Yeah. So what do you so what do you do in those moments? What do you what do you do when you're feeling like that other than let me know?
SPEAKER_02I'm just gonna say, I have phone with you. If you could hear the conversation. Thank God you can't hear the conversation. Well, God can. No, I so I go to God. I really do. You know that whether it's through music or prayer or my quiet time in the morning with him all day. I told you I probably look like a crazy person driving and I'm talking and no one's in the car. You know, thank God for phones,
Rejection, FOMO, And Friendship Dynamics
SPEAKER_02you know, that come through the speakers that people don't think you're just insane in the car talking by yourself, because no, I talk to God all throughout the day. So and I try to remind myself that the only one that matters is him, you know, but I but I struggle with that too, you know, and and then that's human, that's our flesh, right? Yeah, my flesh says I'm not good enough. But I know that I know that I am, you know.
SPEAKER_03So just to play devil's advocate, because you do that for me often, is that I when I have made plans to do things, there are so many times I don't call friends, certain friends. And I have I I am blessed to have quite a few friends, but I think there's maybe like one or two people that I would typically be like my go-to. It depends on what I'm doing, who I would ask to do it with me. And then I've had people come up like, why didn't you ask me to go? And I was like, it never even occurred to me to ask them. And it's not that I don't love them because I genuinely do, but for whatever reason, there's just like a couple random, like go-to people. Or I think one of my friends said, you know, I had a whole lot of stuff going on. And when and they finally, this particular friend finally got into the conversation and they said, This is going on, this is going on, this is going on. And they're like, I didn't know any of that was going on. Like, I was like, Well, we don't see each other that often, and you're not really like a phone person, and we don't leave each other the you know, 10-minute messages that I do with certain other friends, and there's nothing wrong with that friend. I love that friend, but they had a lot of stuff going on with their life too. Does that make them not my friend because we don't call each other, or do we just not have that type of relationship because they're not a phone person or they're not like you know the friends that you see every day? I have friends that I see more often than I see other friends, like you and I physically we don't see each other very often.
SPEAKER_02No, we don't. But what you need to know about us is that we leave each other voice clips like via text that are 20 minutes long.
SPEAKER_03It isn't an endless conversation, it's the same type of conversation I have with God. Yeah, and they said it is an open-ended conversation that never ends all day, all day long. Leave each other's voice. And if I don't message her when because I always message you when I get up in the morning, I message you on my way to work, I message you on my way home from work. And those are like the three just every every day times of the day.
SPEAKER_01And it could be what happens if I don't hear from you?
SPEAKER_03Then I hear from you, and you're like, you're like, I'm worried about you. Are you okay? And I'm like, oh yeah, I think I like I had I was on a work call with HR or something. Like I was, you know, chit chatting with somebody from work. Uh, because it's uh it's almost like always like a work reason that I'm not, or Brian called me and like needed something or whatever. And I only live four minutes from my uh from my job. So I have a very short window of time. So if anybody gets me on the phone in that window, then I don't talk to you. And then when once I get home, you know, it's phones down because it's time to be mom and be wife, and I my they really don't want me to see me on my phone.
SPEAKER_02So I don't talk to anybody after I get home, unless it's an emergency and guests that are like, hello, where are you?
SPEAKER_03It's true, but in the morning five minutes five minutes, but in the morning it's a it's a pretty lengthy, lengthy uh conversation. So we're blessed to have that. But you're but I don't physically see you often, and then there's people that I physically see regularly that I never talk to on the phone. I didn't mean to whack them. I sorry if you heard that. I just whacked the microphone. And I see them every day and wish that I didn't have to.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, no, that's terrible.
SPEAKER_03But I just don't feel the need to call them because I do see them every day. Like my friend Christina, she lists four houses down for me. When the weather's nice, we walk our daughters to school together in the morning. And so we walk to school, we have that, you know, that time of walking there and walking back together. And then we'll go the whole rest of the day without speaking to each other, you know. And then I have other friends that we only talk maybe like once a month. Yeah. But I don't love that. I I love them with that same ferocity. And then my very best friend, who's been my best friend since I was like 18 years old, she lives in Texas and she has a co she has two autistic children. She uh is like the top salesperson in her job. She goes to the gym six days a week. She is probably the only person I know that's busier than me. And then I'm also busy. So her and I might talk like once every two months on the phone. I love her. Like she's like she could tell, like she's we're like blood at this point. We're so close. And things just pick up, and that's just how
Faith Over Opinions And Proverbs 3
SPEAKER_03that relationship is. So applying that mentality to like why we're not asked to do certain things. And the one thing I'm not going to give details, but like you had verbalized to a person that you didn't want to do something, and then they didn't ask you to do that something. And then you were hurt because they didn't ask you to do that something, but they had thought probably thought they were doing you a favor by not asking you because you had already verbalized that you didn't want to. So, but you you know, but then you all of your friends got asked, and you're like, well, wait a minute. Like, and now that I know that everybody else is going, like now I want to go. But even if, but then if she did ask you, you probably would have a lot of hesitancy because do you do you actually want to go? Because you know that that thing they're gonna ask you to do is exhausting and that it requires a lot of like mental theirness and and spiritual theirness and emotional theirness, and like it's it's it takes a lot out of you to participate in that particular thing that maybe you don't have that to pour out right now, but we still like to be asked. We do, but people don't like to be rejected, yeah. That's it either. So sometimes they don't ask us because they know we're gonna reject them, and sometimes I'm glad I don't get asked because I know I want to reject them. Right now, my best friend, one of my best friends just bought a house, and the other two of our like friend group are like, yeah, let's have a cleaning party, let's rip up carpets together. And I'm like, please don't ask me to do that. But it makes am I the like, but then I'm like, oh, but now I'm a bad friend because I'm the only one in the friend group that's just crickets.
SPEAKER_02No, like I'll send a meal, I'll do something like that, but don't ever ask me.
SPEAKER_03I will happily, happily buy you, uh I'll buy you all dinner while you do that together. But there is that FOMO of like they're all gonna be hanging out together. I there's gonna be a bond happening in that project. I want to support my friend because she's moving into that house and it's not for the best of reasons that she's she's moving into that house. So, like, I should want to be there. Like we talked about serving in the last episode and how you're like, I really don't like serving in this particular way. I don't love cleaning other people's houses. I don't love doing house uh like home improvement projects. That is not my ministry at all. For me, it's physical labor at all. Yeah, I don't say when you're ready to move your stuff into that house, I will come over and lift heavy things and put them down for you. But I don't want to clean, I don't want to tear up carpets, I don't want to put together ductwork, like I even know how to do any of that stuff. But when you're ready to go furniture shopping and go look at furniture, or you want to pick out paint colors, I don't want to paint your walls, but I'll go to the store with you and help you decide how you want to design and I'll go over design concepts with you because that's the artist in me. But I am not a manual labor person. So there is that I want to be there and be a good friend, but there's also the I really like personally do not feel like I want to do any of that stuff. So yeah, I get it.
SPEAKER_02But so when we started though, I said judgment, and then it sort of turned to rejection. So do you think that they kind of go hand in hand? I mean, I don't know.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, because part of the fear of judgment is being rejected. It's and that it in our faith too.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Is that like maybe I'm not a good enough Christian because if I was a better Christian, I would show up and do the things that I don't want to do to serve my sister in Christ, whether it's something that I personally want to do or not.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I definitely feel that because I know a lot of friends who have admittedly said that they're yes people. Like my answer is always yes, you know, and mine is not, yeah, you know, at all.
SPEAKER_03So there's a good balance in that though. I think you don't want to always be a yes person either, because then you end up pouring from an empty cup. Yeah. And it it it spurs re like exhaustion. And then I'm trying to think of the word that I'm
Do Not Judge: Romans 14 In Practice
SPEAKER_03looking for, but you regret being helpful, you resent resentment. You start having resentment for your calling rather than just saying, like, this isn't something that I'm feeling, you know, led to be a part of. And can I find another way to support you in what you're doing? And so, and and that could be yeah, then that's serving at church, that's feeling, you know, people making you feel bad because you don't tithe the way that they do. So you're now all of a sudden you're getting the judgment of like you're not a good enough Christian because you're not you're not fulfilling the rules that other people put on you. I tithe. I tithe to the ministry that I steward and then I donate to other ministries, but I don't tithe at my church. And I don't think everybody would necessarily agree with that being like a way to do things, but I do, I do give money to further the kingdom. I just don't do it through my church. Or if I do, it's like a once a year, I do like a $100 giving instead of doing you know, five bucks or whatever every week or $10 or whatever. I don't I can't donate what is it, a tenth of your salary? Yeah. I don't I I can't do that. And if I do, it's it is a tenth that's spread out over multiple ministries.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's it's kind of how we we tithe too. It's actually something I'm struggling in a whole nother episode, but it that would be a good topic of conversation because I am struggling in that area too, with and right now again, it's a whole nother episode, but with our church circumstance right now. Yeah. Um having left the church to go to another church and feeling a little nimbo right now that we're not tithing to any church right now. But like you just said, we sew into several ministries regularly, monthly. So I have sort of looked at that as oh, well, we are still, but not to the church, you know what I mean? So and that's something I need a little more background on, you know? Yeah. Because I I do I do feel a little guilty about it.
SPEAKER_03And I'm sure right now there are probably people who are listening to this judging us. Yeah. So it does come back to judgment and say no matter what we do, people are going to have an opinion about it. They're gonna have an opinion about this podcast. So we're being judged by the things that we're talking about now. You know, we're being judged by the the people in our lives, by our friends, by our family, but God is the ultimate judge. Right. And thank God for that.
SPEAKER_02And so one of the bigger scriptures on, you know, not really on judgment or rejection necessarily, but Proverbs 3, 5 through 6. Trust in the Lord with all your heart, do not depend on your own understanding. Seek His will in all you do, and He will show you which path to take. There's several scriptures, things like this on trusting in Him and not on the world or opinion or what someone thinks of us, you know, that we are supposed to lean on Him. Which I feel normally I do, but what about a song that leads to that?
SPEAKER_04Oh is it trying to still tread on me?
SPEAKER_01Oh is that one though? I'm not sure. I was like, I have to look that up. I like I like that song.
SPEAKER_03Well, while you're looking that up, I'll bring up a couple more scriptures that are about judging. So Matthew 7, 1, do not judge, or you too will be judged. Some people need to listen to that. Yeah, yeah. Actually, my church had a really good sermon this past week, and he was talking about it, it was from Romans 14, and he was talking about how like you shouldn't judge other people for being the types of Christians that they are for following the Lord the way they do. Because some people, for some people, you can't eat a certain kind of food. But for some people, they don't feel convicted about that. And for you to sit there and tell them that they're not following the Lord the right way because they're eating a certain way. That's such an open-handed issue. And it has nothing to do with grace, it has nothing to do with salvation, and we should give people a lot more room than we do without just standing over them telling them how they're doing Christianity wrong. And oof, that is a word for some people out there today. Yeah, because
Social Media, Offense, And Grace
SPEAKER_03you know, there's a lot going on out there, and you know, we're okay to have differences of opinions about a lot of different things. Yeah. There's closed fisted issues and there's open handed issues. And as long as we can agree on the closed fisted issues, uh, then I think we're good. And even if we can't, we should still be able to have respectful conversations in love with each other about the things that we don't agree on.
SPEAKER_02It's a hard one, though. It is hard. I found myself just recently. You know, some of my friends know I like I took TikTok off my phone. I took Instagram off my phone. I refused to kind of be in that, you know. And then recently on Facebook, my husband and I have a page together. And I put something out there that wasn't meant to be offensive in any way. It was just an opinion. It was actually an opinion that was on someone else's post. And I copied and pasted it and said that. And man, if people just didn't flock to it to tell me how wrong I was for posting it. And I thought, you know what? First of all, my page, my post, my opinions, that's that's mean. If you know me at all, I'm really strongly about that. Scroll on. You don't need to stop and give me your opinion and how you feel. This is just something I put out there because I would do that for you. If you post something on your Facebook that I don't agree with, scroll on. I'm not about to get an argument with you about it. I scroll on. So you know what I do for some that are real heavy about it? I blossom. You know, I just I don't, I don't, not like unfriend, but I unfollow. Now they have an unfollow. I just don't need to see your stuff, you know? And as soon as I posted what I posted, someone said something about it, and then on their own page, took it further to like grab onto that and further say their opinion or whatever. But guess what? I didn't do. I didn't say anything on their page or their comment because I didn't agree. So I I scrolled on. Don't, yeah, I don't need your opinion on everything, you know.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And they they're not correcting in love either. I don't think that that's that's a correction in love when it's done that way. I think that that could have, especially for a friend, that can be a sidebar conversation of like, hey, I don't know, I don't know that you necessarily understood that the scripture that you're posting in the way that it was intended. And here's the actual scripture. Just take a take another look at it. Maybe I'm understanding it wrong, but I I think I'm interpreting the scripture to mean something different than you are. And this is what I found. Just because I, you know, as my sister in Christ, I just want to lead you in the right direction if I think that you're interpreting something wrong because I love you.
SPEAKER_02Do you know what I love though? Is somebody on that same post came at me from that angle, but then deleted their comments and left a message on there that they were sorry. Not that they not that they agreed at all with what I had posted, but they wanted to say they were sorry for coming at me in a way. Yeah, yeah. That they felt bad that we're brothers and sisters in Christ, and we shouldn't have have done that he shouldn't have done that, you know. And I do feel that way. We're allowed a difference in opinions. And you know what else too with scripture? Do you know how many scriptures I reached out to different pastors as friends that I get a different take on it? I mean, look at the Bible study we do together. And you have said, wow, I didn't read it that way. I didn't see it that way. Do you know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_03So yeah, I appreciate your interpretation or other people's interpretation of the word, but I think that that's the beauty of it being a living word, yeah, is that you and I can read the same things coming from different stages in life, different angles, different viewpoints, different opinions, whatever. And we can read the same thing and interpret it differently. And it doesn't mean that I'm right or you're right or whatever. But the people who just stand on that firm, I'm right about this, and I don't want to hear what you have to say about anything, like you're not coming at that from a position of love or compassion or empathy or any of the things that you should be coming from. And and and where's your fruit? Yeah. Where's the fruit of the spirit in in that behavior? You're all you're doing is is feeding into the machine, right? Especially because I know the post you're talking about, and it was it was leading from a place of compassion, yeah, rather than you know, certainly didn't mean it. No, and it's uh social media and has its blessings and its curses, but another another scripture it says, who are you to judge some oh Romans 14, 4? I was just talking about who are you to judge someone else's servant to their own to their own master's servants stand or fall? God decides our judgment. So if he doesn't agree with something that we say or do, believe me, I am his. He will convict me about it and he'll be like, I don't really like that. And he'll put this feeling in our gut that, like, hey, maybe you should
God Receives The Rejected
SPEAKER_03take a deeper look in that, or he'll put that scripture in front of your face in other ways. Like all of a sudden it'll just show up randomly in like your calendar that day, or it'll show up in your Bible study, or it'll show up in a podcast, or whatever. And you'll have to, and he'll be like, maybe I need to look a little bit deeper into this particular scripture because that's what happened with the seek first the kingdom. I mean, that that kept popping up everywhere that I was looking until I looked into it, and I really felt like God was calling me to that scripture.
SPEAKER_01So yeah.
SPEAKER_02I was trying to find a song that I had in my heart, and it I can't, for whatever reason, I can't think of the song.
SPEAKER_03Well, I did find, I did find a couple songs. So songs that answer judgment and condemnation are You Say by Lauren Daigle. I keep fighting voices in my mind that say I'm not enough. And I think that's a good one for how you're saying you feel about yourself. Jyra Maverick City Music, I will be content in every circumstance. Jyra, you are enough. So you don't have to rely on the voices of other people. Who you say I am, Hill Shop Hill's song worship. I am chosen, not forsaken.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. I am who you say I am. The truth by Megan Woods. The truth is I am my father's child.
SPEAKER_03Yep. Reckless love, got Corey Asbray, God's Love Pursuing You Past Labels. I think I and thank you, thank you, God, for reckless love. Yeah. Songs that sit in the in the feeling of rejection. You know my name by Tasha Cobes Leonard. He knows you personally when others overlook you. Maybe that's a good one if you don't know that one for you to look up. Believe for it, CC Wynans, Faith when Life says no. She had that one in her notebook of a song to discuss one time soon. Do it again, Elevation Worship, Hope Back to Disappointment, Healer, Carrie Job, Hope, Healing for Wounded Hearts.
SPEAKER_02So there is a plethora of songs out there about rejection. Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_03And then songs that declare who God says you are. No longer slaves, Bethel music, freedom from shame and fear. I speak Jesus, speaking truth over lies, promises, Maverick City music, God's faithfulness when people aren't. And Waymaker, God working when you feel unseen. So I think he's that thank you, God, for the music.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Definitely something that I'm going to put on the playlist.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean, I probably have them in my in my music.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, absolutely. I think that those are those are all great songs. Reckless Love was actually my first worship song that I ever contemporary worship song.
SPEAKER_01Chad, Chad does a good job on that song.
SPEAKER_03He said why? Him and I could harmonize on that one. I actually know the harmony for that one because I learned he does a version with Tori, oh man, blonde hair, curly hair. She does the voice of the elephant and sing. Oh Tori Kelly. Oh, yeah. He that him and her do a duet of that. It's more of like an RB version of that. But but uh I learned her harmony part. So tell Chad.
SPEAKER_02I sang it one time. That's something that we struggle with actually as a couple. It's funny that people will say, Oh, Deion and Chad should sing that. We don't sing very well together. Isn't that it's kind of stinks, but we just we don't sound very well. There's some songs that we can do okay, but I don't know if it's because we're kind of the same range almost, because he's got a higher guy's voice, or maybe it's because my voice is so low. I don't know. But like, yeah, we have a hard time singing together, and then I don't harmonize either. So that might be something but to at least your husband will sing.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, mine does
Worship Songs For Wounded Hearts
SPEAKER_03not. He he says he enjoys the songs at church, but then he stands there with just a completely blank look on his face, just not smiling, not mouthing the words. I mean, I get it if you don't want to sing because you're not confident in your voice, but he's like this.
SPEAKER_00Maybe he's just listening and taking it.
SPEAKER_03That's what he says. He says in his head, he's singing along, and people are like, I love that song. And I'm like, You do? Yeah, who doesn't?
SPEAKER_00We don't want to praise and worship the same thing.
SPEAKER_03No, no. And think I and that's that's another thing they were talking about. And was it purpose-driven life today? They were talking about how there's all different forms of worship, and I'm really excited to to get to explore that a little bit more at some of our light, the way it's been in introducing dance and art and sign language and flags, spoken word poetry. We got to do that at our 24-hour tent revival. I'm hiccuping, actually, but thank you. That's pretty welcome. Thank you. I'm holding it in as best I can.
SPEAKER_00Like maybe these weird faces, and I'm like, what is going on? I have the hiccups.
SPEAKER_03I'm doing my best. So just let me let me go. But yeah, we did a 24-hour tent revival back in October, and God had put it on my heart. The the real like main focal point of that particular uh event was having pastors from different churches of different denominations come together and work together to write a sermon that they would deliver side by side to promote unity within the body of Christ. And then I also, you know, I had 24 hours to fill, and I'm like, man, like how we how do we fill 24 hours with worship? And thank God that he just provided because I just started getting calls and emails from different types of worship leaders that I had never even considered that that art was a form of worship or that poetry was a form of worship. I think most of the time, especially for new believers, like we kind of are, you know, worship we consider as to be the songs that are played in church, or somebody can sing, or somebody can play an instrument, and it's really not always like that. You look like you're concentrating on something right now.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, no, I'm listening to you, but I was looking up. I I wanted to look up something, and I can't explain it. You weren't supposed to say anything. I'm sorry. I was trying to find it.
SPEAKER_00Incognito you that's okay.
SPEAKER_03And I didn't make it, and you didn't give me any kind of read it.
SPEAKER_02You can't find it. It was something that I had on rejection that I wanted to read, and I can't now I can't find it. Anyways, I'm so not I was so not prepared. That's okay. Sorry.
SPEAKER_03Well, I can while you're you I can you can keep looking for that. I'd be more than happy to share some more some more scripture since we're talking about that. And while you're looking, I found some scripture that is about when you feel rejected. So Psalm 27, 2710 is through my father and mother forsake me, the Lord will receive me. Thank you, God. That just because you're born into a family doesn't mean that that family is always going to appreciate you the way that we want them to. We have to remember that we are gifts from the Lord to our families to steward, but that people are gonna people as long as there's people, and that they are going to be flawed and broken, just like everybody else, and that God is the only one who will ever love you perfectly and thank you to the Lord that He'll receive us when our own people won't. And then we also have Psalm 118-22, the stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone. We have to remember that while sometimes we feel like that the world hates us, we have to keep in mind that that they hated him first. That's John 15, 18. So if anybody understands what it's like to feel rejected, I mean, Jesus was as good as it gets on earth. He did everything perfect, he was perfect, and the world still hated him. So in your imperfection, why would you expect that everybody would accept you?
SPEAKER_01Right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And that's good. That's good.
SPEAKER_01That's so good. You're so deep. You're so good. You are.
SPEAKER_00Sometimes you are so deep.
SPEAKER_02Okay, so listen, I I this is what I was looking for. It says
Many Forms Of Worship Beyond Music
SPEAKER_02the no arrives not as a roar, but the soft certain click of a locking door, a sudden silence where a bridge once stood, a thank you, but misunderstood. It sits in the throat like a bitter pill while the rest of the world stays busy and still. You check the map, you reread the lines looking for flaws or the warning signs. But a door that is barred is a wall, it's true. Yet it doesn't define the marrow of you. For every not yet and every depart is a pruning of paths for the break of heart. The sting will fade to a dull gray home until the right rhythm begins to drum. Rejection is only the heavy cold rain that clears out the dust for the garden to gain. So it's worth remembering that rejection is often just redirection. So I love that.
SPEAKER_03Where did you get that from? So people know where to find it if they liked it.
SPEAKER_02I looked it up on Google and I copied it and pasted it into my thing, and I don't know where I found it.
SPEAKER_03Well, I think she's going to put it in our Facebook page so that other people can find it.
SPEAKER_02And in the show notes, too. I can put it down there. That's awesome. No, you're not meant to paste it into where I could read it. Yeah. That's really nice.
SPEAKER_03Rejection is sometimes protection. Thank God that he didn't always say yes to every whim of my heart. Yeah. I would be married to somebody completely different. Unanswered prayers, right?
SPEAKER_00Sometimes I think uh from unanswered prayers. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Not even a worship singer. Thanks. Oh man. Oh, we'll go back to some scripture a little bit. Now, this is scripture for when you start judging yourself. So, 1 Samuel 16:7. People look at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart. I have been guilty of looking at people's outward appearances. Totally.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I absolutely do. I told you why. I judge a book by its cover right away. And I even shared that with someone that I had a problem with. I shared it right to their face. Like, I don't like you. I I don't like you just from looking at you right now. Like, and I I hate that I do that.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I don't even know you. But I didn't want to become friends with them because I was judging her for. I mean, we actually talked about it though, and I I realized I was judging her for being someone who was similar to the way I was treated in the past by a certain someone, and it was on first impression. That's what she reminded me of. And so I immediately just did not want to be friends with her. You know, and that's horrible. You know, I should should not do that.
SPEAKER_01But I do.
SPEAKER_03I think I don't I I know that I judge people uh on outward appearances. I don't know that it never stops me necessarily from being friends with them, and that's the golden retriever in me, is that I uh I just want to be friends with everybody. But I think it's more turned the other way too, that I think people judge me based on what I look like, because I don't think that I'm attractive. And I think, you know, my weight was always I used to be a lot heavier than I am now, and I feel like I was overlooked and turned down for jobs, for friendships, that people didn't think I could do certain things because of my weight. So you almost take on this like I have to talk about my weight or make jokes about it or whatever, so that I can acknowledge the things about me that I think you're thinking out loud before you ever get a chance to. So you can't use it and weaponize it to hurt me. And then I immediately like shut down.
SPEAKER_02I feel that. I I get that. When you say that, I get that. I I think that's probably why I do it too, because I've always worried about what people thought about me.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Upon first meeting me or seeing me. Yeah. I mean, I too used to be much heavier than I am, you know, and I think I like to play the role. Well, I wanted to say I like to play the role of the funny fat girl, but I was never funny. I mean that came that came later. I got funnier as I lost weight. I think no, that's not true, but you know, they say like the fat funny guy or the fat funny girl.
SPEAKER_03I was the fat, funny friend, you know, yeah, in our friend group, for sure. I've always been the happiest one in my in my friend groups. So you kind of had to be because I wasn't the
Self-Judgment, Identity, And Appearance
SPEAKER_03pretty one, I wasn't the smart one, but I and now it's well, thank you. But now but now I I've you know I tried now. I I think that I assume people aren't going to like me because I'm Christian. And my husband's like, why do you think people care about that as much as they do, they do? And I'm like, I think because I used to care about it, because I used to think Christian people before I knew any actually knew any Christian people, I used to think Christian people were judgmental, and I was really judging them. Right. They might not have been judging me, but I immediately judged them. I thought, well, they're perfect and their lives are perfect. People are still in terms of judgmental, you know. They're gonna, they're gonna hate me. Like people, like there was there's somebody who is struggling with sexual identity that I know. I won't say where I know them because I don't want to give anything away. But they they immediately like I come rolling in with my Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life sweater. I've got a big sticker on my car. I talk openly about being in ministry. And they were like kind of weary of me. And I'm like, they and I come home and I tell my husband, I'm like, they probably think I hate them. He's like, why do you think they think about it at all? And I'm like, because I because I'm sitting here with this big Jesus sweater on. So they probably just think I hate them. And I don't at all. I don't have any negative feelings towards them at all. Their sexual confusion has nothing to do with me personally. You know, I'm praying for for them, but I have my own wooden planks in my eye, but I'm not going to look for yours because when I have to go stand before the judgment seat of God, it's He's not gonna ask me how you're doing. Right, you know, so all I can do is pray for you. It's not up to me to live your life. But also they don't follow Jesus at all. So to me, they're not held to the same standard that I am. So I so I have had to, you know, I I've tried to like almost like push myself on them and kindness to to kind of go against like the grain of like what they think I'm going to think about them. Yeah, because I'm Christians. So I just I have a tendency to assume that other people that I make them uncomfortable.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I don't worry about that. Oddly. I don't. No, because I've had to deal with it, I think, for a long time with family, especially, which is a whole nother episode, but yeah, I don't I don't worry about that anymore because I have felt that judgment from family or others on like who I am as a Christian compared to who I was in the past, and then their judgment on well, you never you you haven't changed that, or you know, like I struggle with anger issues, okay? And and anybody who knows me knows that like diagnosed anger problems. And so I think people who knew me in the past and now know me today as a Christian, they want to go, oh yeah, see, you're still that person, you're still that angry person. Well, because we claim to be a Christian and follow Christ doesn't mean that everything that we've ever done is gone from us, you know, like we still struggle with things, you know. I mean, we just talked about that recently, just you know, it doesn't all just fall away. You don't say, I I accept Christ into my heart, and now all my sins are gone. You know, they're not. We still struggle with leaving that behind, leaving that in the past. Some things I've been able to leave in the past, some things I've carried with me all this time. Some things I really, really, really struggle with, and anger is one of them, you know. And I don't say it's a, you know, I said I was, you know, diagnosed with anger problems, but it it is. It's actually a diagnosis I have, you know. I am a I am a bipolar manic depressive with anger issues. That's how I've been diagnosed, you know? So I'm not saying that as an excuse to be angry, but it is something that I do struggle with and that I fight every day not to be that person. So when you have someone who doesn't understand the Christian walk and doesn't understand how far I have come, see me get angry still. And they want to go, oh, so you haven't changed it at all, you know? Well, I have, but that's an area I still struggle in. No different than an alcoholic or whoever you whatever you struggle with that you've put down, you know, people want to still call you out on something if they don't understand the Christian walk, is what I'm saying.
SPEAKER_03It's interesting, the as you know, because as Christians, we're supposed to. Have empathy and compassion for people, especially when they're struggling with sins. And I've seen a lot of fellow brothers and sisters in Christ who are just so like ready and willing to walk alongside brothers and sisters that are struggling with drugs and pornography and homelessness and hunger or whatever. And those that are in jail and whatever. You're so willing to walk alongside people that are struggling with that, but you are so quick to judge and not walk alongside those that are struggling with sexual identity, those that are struggling with homosexuality or struggling with anger or abuse or whatever or whatever or even promiscuity. So they're struggling with sexual sin. Ooh, I ain't gotten a room for you. Those living together but now that aren't married and things like that. Now I and I'll call myself out. I was guilty of doing that. And I didn't necessarily, I didn't personally judge it, but I was held under the being in leadership in a ministry. Someone came to volunteer with us that was I was under the impression that they were married to their partner. And then only to find out later that that's not necessarily that was not necessarily the case, that I was under a misconception. And I was kind of put under some pressure to tell that person that they were not allowed to lead worship with
Sin, Leadership, And Hard Boundaries
SPEAKER_03us or to volunteer in certain aspects of the ministry. Did you agree with that at the time? I not really, because I I was still early in my walk. So I went to four different pastors of four different churches, different denominations. And then I took it to the word, I took it to prayer, and only one of the four pastors kind of was like, eh, you know, because in their denomination, they didn't see it that way. But then, you know, I would see somebody who wasn't married but was pregnant leading worship at a church or whatever. And and and and the person who in question, they had led worship in multiple churches. And so I was very confused and really didn't know what to do. But because I work with so many different churches, and so the majority of the churches that I worked with had did have a strong stance on that particular subject. I was like, in order to keep the peace and just kind of like put this down, like I can't, I can't, we can't do that here because just because I'm working with somebody. Now, if it was my own personal whatever, that's between you and the Lord. And I at this particular point, I don't know enough about it. Here's where to make a call.
SPEAKER_02On that point, though, because you know that I had a an issue with that in a different setting, uh different, not in your ministry, but in another ministry. I had an issue with people being in head or lead positions who were not living quote unquote a right life or living with someone that they weren't married to or something like that. And what I was told and what I've come to realize is that is that person is is that person's heart for God any less in their struggle right now? You know what I mean? That they are not allowed to lead or help someone else through things because they're living in sin. We are what I was then further told, you know, and came to understand is we are all living in sin. We all sin every day, we all fall short. So why is their sin worse than my sin?
SPEAKER_03I think with the way it was proposed to me was that if you are actively choosing to live in sin, okay, it's different than sinning because we are bent to sin. So like I'm I curse, and that's my biggest problem right now is my cursing. But it's not something I'm proud of. It's not something that I am like okay with. I'm not like I don't just walk around every day going like, well, that's okay. Like I'll just keep doing it that way. I actively pray to God almost every single day to take this away.
SPEAKER_01What if they were too though, or they are in that circumstance.
SPEAKER_03But but I and in that case, I would feel bad. But like, so let's, I mean, we can even, you know, we can talk about, you know, uh sexuality.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So there are people who are who are who recognize that the Bible says homosexuality is a sin. And they choose to abstinence because they are still walking that way, but they choose abstinence because they don't want to follow or go away from the direction that the Bible's telling them to go. I don't love them any less. I don't love, you know what I mean? Like just that that doesn't change how I feel about them. I grew up in a predominantly sexually fluid area. I'm from South Florida. So Fort Lauderdale is a big boys' town. My best friends were gay, my sister was bisexual, like they they a lot, there was a lot of uh sin in that air in that way. But I have my own things going on. Do I wish I'd handled the situation that I was given differently? Yeah, I do. Of course I do, because I don't ever, I the golden retriever in me is like, I don't ever want to have problems with anybody. I don't ever want anybody to feel condemned or made to feel bad by me. But I I do want to do things that are pleasing to the Lord, especially when you're leading worship and you're leading people to the feet of Jesus. I don't want to lead people in the wrong way. And we sometimes have to follow the best advice that we're given. So I went to leaders of churches that I respect deeply and took it to the to scripture, and this is what it says. And I made the best decision based on that. And I'm sure that that person felt very judged by me. Yeah. But me personally, I was not judging them. And sometimes I think we take other people's, like you're you sometimes might feel like you're being judged by people that actually aren't judging you at all. You're you're you're creating an offense that is that doesn't exist, and then that creates you know problems between our brothers and sisters in Christ. That person who commented on your Facebook post probably felt like maybe even from their own perspective, that they were trying to lead you in love. But to to the way it was to the way it was received, it was not received in love. And neither was my my message to that person either.
SPEAKER_02I was just gonna say, and maybe that's some of it, is that we go in it with the right heart, like we want what's right and we want to do what's right, but in effect by doing what you feel is right in the moment. Someone gets hurt, you know, sometimes.
SPEAKER_03So do we just stay quiet moving forward?
SPEAKER_02No, and that was my situation with my in in the
Calling In With Love, Not Calling Out
SPEAKER_02the atmosphere that I was talking about. Is that what did you just say? What did you just ask me on this last night?
SPEAKER_03Like, are we supposed to stay quiet?
SPEAKER_02Oh no, okay, so and I'm never quiet, you know that everyone knows if anyone's a greasy squeaky wheel, it's me. I'm you know, whatever the term is, I'm the one that's gonna bring it, bring it to the light, right? Okay, so that's where I'm coming from, and that's where my heart posture was on my situation was we're supposed to call our brothers and sisters into the light to correct what is wrong, right? That's my only desire is to call you out into the light. Just me and you, let's talk about this and let's correct this together. I want to help you through it. And I don't expect any different from my brothers and sisters in Christ to call me out on things. If you know something about me and you know I shouldn't be reading or doing the things that I'm doing out in public because you know something about my private life, then you and I should have a conversation and you should call me out on that. That's how I do feel about that. So I don't feel like you did anything wrong, but maybe there should have been a better conversation about it, but maybe that wasn't even a possibility at the time because of the quote unquote thumb you felt like you were under. You just knew you had to know. I you know, I have to, I can't have you doing this, you know. And then in retrospect, we start to think of the should's, could've's.
SPEAKER_03Oh, sure. Yeah. It's not easy being in in a leadership role either, you know, because it's hard. You don't always want to make the decisions that people put on you, but you have to take the responsibility that once the decisions are made, you know. I could have easily said to the person who I hurt, hey, I was kind of forced to make that decision by the thumb.
SPEAKER_02But as Christians, we are called to we are called to corrupt one another. You know what I mean? Yeah, of course.
SPEAKER_03But it shouldn't have been me because I didn't have that relationship with them to have been the one to correct them or to to cause that to happen. And I should have really pushed for the other person that was holding the thumb down to been like, this is actually really your area that maybe you should be the one because you have a better relationship with them to do that. But all this to say, I know this is getting a little bit long, so we should probably wrap it up. But I I think at the end of the day, I think we should try both of us to give and receive judgment differently, to prey on things before we speak quickly, to pray for people before we, you know, take things to them, and to try to approach things with more grace, but also to receive other people's judgment with the knowledge that they are not always going to do it with the best of intention, like not the but I mean with the bet like the best method either. Because sometimes they don't know how to do it with us.
SPEAKER_02And maybe, like you said, it's just the way we're perceiving it. It's not even a judgment, right? You know, it's the way we think about ourselves. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So that we're not being judged. Maybe they think like you're they're that like they think you're they're doing you a favor, right? So to just give grace and and to each other because God gave us grace first. Yes. And thank God for that. Because Lord knows I needed it. I mean, he could he had so many things he could have judged me for. So I'm super, super grateful that he chose to lead with grace. Yes.
SPEAKER_02All right. Well, I opened in prayer. So if you'd like to close with prayer.
SPEAKER_03Oh, you cold lady. All right. Dear Heavenly Father, thank you so much for this conversation with Xion. Thank you to our listeners for sticking with us. And we hope that this conversation stirred something in you. If you feel yourself coming to a point where you are approaching people with judgment or even feeling like you yourself are being judged, that we that, Holy Spirit, just remind us that we are imperfect people and that God is the only perfect judge. And that when God wants us to feel convicted about things, that is why you are there. That is why He gave us a wonderful counselor in ourselves to be able to turn to, to talk to, to go over things with. And then when we you do lead us to have conversations with our brothers and sisters, that you always, always take control of our tongue to approach that conversation from a position of love. God, we thank you for this time together. We thank you for the people listening and thank you for blessing this conversation. We love you so much. Amen. Amen. Bye, guys. Bye.