WBC PODCAST
WBC PODCAST
MARCH 24, 2026 #008 M.SIMPSON/T.BOALS (ALL THINGS TRBA)
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In this episode of Talkin’ Grit, M. Simpson sits down with T.Boals to discuss the Tennessee Road Builders Association and the important work they do to strengthen infrastructure and support the industry.
From the job site to the office, from lessons learned to stories worth telling, this is Talking Grit, brought to you by Wright Brothers. Here's your host, Jared Walger.
SPEAKER_01All right, we're back here at Talk and Grit, and I just want to welcome you today, wherever you're tuning in from. And before we get started, just want to put this out there. We want to do a giveaway. Um, go to your email and send us uh some feedback at podcast at wbccci.com. Uh the feedback that comes in, we're gonna put your name and a hat for a drawing for a gift card uh that we're gonna send your way. Uh so do that and uh hey, get a chance for some free stuff. Uh, but thanks for tuning in. We got a good episode for you today. We have Tony Bowles, Mitchell Simpson here, and we're gonna be talking about some stuff that maybe you don't know about, um, but is super interesting when it comes to our company um involved on a state level, a national level. Um, super awesome when you start thinking about the way that Wright Brothers has a lot of influence in our involvement um across the board. So, Mitchell, take it away.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, thanks, Jared. Tony, appreciate you being on the podcast. Welcome. Thank you. Good afternoon. So you have been here at Wright Brothers now for a while. How many years have you been here? I've been here about 15 years. I think I came in 2011. Yep. And you have worn numerous hats while you've been here. You've done lots of different things. But one of the big things that you do for our organization is government relations. And there's two specific organizations that you've been involved with over the years that I kind of want to talk through today so everybody understands what they are, how they affect our industry, and what we do in them. So the first one is TRBA. Lots of people have heard us say that acronym before. What is TRBA?
SPEAKER_02TRBA, Tennessee Road Builders Association. And I've been involved with Tennessee Roadbuilders Association since probably the mid-90s. Uh, that was before I came here. Uh in 2013, I served as the president of the association. Uh, so what is TRBA? TRBA is an organization of companies across uh the state, across the region that have that really have anything to do with building roads in the state of Tennessee? It's made up of contractors, subcontractors, suppliers, associates, uh designers, you know, uh engineering firms, really anybody that has anything to do uh with the road building industry.
SPEAKER_03So in TRBA, what type of issues, what type of things does the association work on, Tony?
SPEAKER_02What the association really does is you know, other than a big family of of industry that that works together for one common goal to uh to build roads in Tennessee, uh TRBA advocates and coordinates with T Dot on specifications, on contract issues, uh, on labor issues, to try to make sure that the industry knows what the state wants to have uh and to try to coordinate the, you know, how can we best work for the state uh and still do our part and make a living and and be profitable. But uh I think working together with T Dot is has benefited us all uh instead of just trying to fight one another. Uh but besides working with T Dot, TRBA has a lot of other roles too. We we do a lot of uh lobbying and advocacy work with the state legislature. Uh any bills or laws or rules that come up that affect the industry from uh funding sources, which is very, very important to environmental uh policies, uh labor policies, uh property rights policies, coordinating with utilities, anything that is basically a state law that has to do with our industry, TRBA is there and we have a voice uh lobbying and advocating for it. And uh there's there's a lot of other things we do too.
SPEAKER_03Um, there's a there's a lot of things. So one of the things you brought up in all that there, Tony, was you know, contractors, TRBA working together with T Dot. So at one point in time, Tennessee had some of the best roads in the nation, right? Right. How many years ago was it that they it was nominated as the best roads, best interstate system in the nation? Do you remember?
SPEAKER_02I think it's going back, it's probably been five or six years now that we were always in the top three, consistently in the top three.
SPEAKER_03And that's really a testament to, you know, the contractors in the state and T Dot working together. And because of that relationship with TRBA and the healthy back and forth that everybody has, you know, in the state of Tennessee, we got something to be proud of right there. Um those of y'all that live in Alabama, hey, I'm sorry, I-59 is still terrible. Oh, yeah. But uh, you know, in Tennessee, healthy back and forth between TRBA and T Dot. And we've really been blessed to produce a very, very good product over the years. But one of the issues that's currently coming up here in Tennessee is funding, right? Funding's the big deal. That's one of the big things that TRBA talks about, right, Tony? And, you know, I had the chance to be on the board of directors with TRBA several years ago. And in 2017, an Improve Act was passed in the Tennessee legislature. Governor signed it. Can you explain to everybody what the Improved Act and what happened at that point in time?
SPEAKER_02So the Improve Act was uh a new funding source that uh a revised funding source that was proposed uh as as introduced. Uh it was proposed that we get an additional 12 cents uh per gallon on the gas tax and that that tax be indexed to uh current economic conditions. So explain indexing real quick. Okay, indexing means that it fluctuates with the uh the current economy. Uh it's tied to like the consumer uh producers index or some other national averages that uh very go up and down with inflation, with the current economic times. Because right now what we have is it's been over 30 years uh well before 2017, uh when Tennessee got an increase in their state gas tax. And the way that works is it's cents per gallon. So it really doesn't matter what the price of gas is. Some people think it says, oh, well, gas is is more expensive now, so you're collecting a lot more uh revenue from that. Well, no, it's it's just cents per gallon, it's just a flat rate, a flat rate, and since that number hasn't gone up in 30 years, the revenue that we're collecting is 30 years old. We're working off uh 1989 dollars um in today's society. So what you could buy for a dollar back then, um what I'm guessing that it's about what would you say 65 cents, it'd be worth about 65 cents today.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, absolutely. I mean, if you think about it, the gas tax in general is a really antiquated tax the way they do it. Because if you look at sales tax, it's by a percentage, right? So as stuff goes up in value, you know, hey, you they collect more tax. The gas tax, as Tony's point is making here, is just a flat tax. So, you know, in 2017, Tony, you started down the road. The bill started out of, hey, 12 cents, hey, we're gonna index it, but it didn't end up like that when they ended up voting on it, right, Tony?
SPEAKER_02No, they they cut it back to there was 12 cents indexed, and there were over 900 projects that T D Dot had committed to uh in this bill. So when the bill finally gets through uh the House and the and the Senate, it was six cents, no indexing, but they kept the 900 and something projects. So now T D Dot and really that really didn't get T Dot back to zero to current day dollars. It got them more money, uh, yes, that and then and that's good. We'll always take more money into the program, but it never really did get them back to zero or current dollars.
SPEAKER_03So, you know, everybody always, if you've been around me any, you always hear me griping about the fact that we don't have enough work in Tennessee, right? So look at look at the states around Tennessee, Tony. North Carolina has more gas tax in Tennessee, plus they take a portion of their sales tax and put it in the road fund, right? We have the state of Georgia that also has a mechanism for indexing. So, you know, they're not losing dollars like we are. Same thing with the state of Alabama. So last week Tony and I had the chance to go to Day on the Hill, Tennessee Road Builders Day on the Hill. And the Day on the Hill is an opportunity for industry to go talk to our representatives and to try to educate them and explain to them hey, here's the need, here's what we what we gotta do. And I took my kids up there with me this time, two of the kids. Good opportunity. Tony got to give them the tour with the capital and everything, and they were they were amazed by all of it until they got to meet the representatives and it kind of somehow blew their mind. You know, the mystique of government just got totally blown away, right, Tony? That's true. It got blown away. They they were it was mind-boggling to them about how in the world does our government work? Well, it doesn't work. And, you know, the conversation about the Improve Act is a prime example of how government is a messy deal and it doesn't work at times. So the conversation last week, every time we have a day on the hill, we have a button to wear, right, Tony? Right. And the button this time around was was 40. 40.
SPEAKER_02And 40 represents Tennessee loses 40 million dollars a year on average for every year that the gas tax has not been indexed.
SPEAKER_01Good grief.
SPEAKER_03So if every year it would have raised by a penny since 2017, and we've lost 40 million dollars a year. So now all these years later, we're losing what was it they said $240 million a year?
SPEAKER_02$240 million a year. We would have had over almost $900 million aggregate uh had uh had we indexed it back in 217.
SPEAKER_03So think about that for a second, guys. One penny, one penny, one penny alone is forty million dollars. Who listening to this podcast today would not be willing to pay one penny extra a year to have good infrastructure?
SPEAKER_01Oh my goodness.
SPEAKER_03That makes everybody everybody's willing to say yes to that, right?
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_03Because it's it makes so much sense. But uh that's the problem with politics. You know, you gotta it's a process. You gotta explain it to people, people gotta understand the need. You gotta boil it down to where it's very, very simple to understand. And when you when you put it out in that fashion, you get a lot of nodding heads when you go in there and you start talking to these to the congressmen and to the senators.
SPEAKER_01Well, it seems like you know there's such a huge importance when you know the TRBA has to go in and fight and advocate and say, please listen to me. Uh, you know, let's make stuff better and help educate all these politicians and be like, look, no, we know what we're talking about. And, you know, you have to have that organization fighting on the hill to get stuff done.
SPEAKER_02Well, a lot of things people don't realize is that they pay more in their streaming services than what they pay in a gas tax all year. You know, if you just think about uh how much actual gas tax you pay in a year, you you re you know, you don't pay less than three hundred dollars a year in true gas tax. Another thing to to think about is that forty percent of the gas tax revenues is paid by people who live out of state who are traveling through our state. So even if they decided we're gonna uh you know, our gas tax is say a dollar a gallon, well, Tennessee residents really only have to pay 60 cents of that because the other 40 cents of it is getting paid by out of state uh drivers that come through the state. That's fascinating.
SPEAKER_03And that is very similar to the other surrounding states around us, right, Tony? You know, we got a whole bunch of people that live in North Carolina, Georgia, Alabama, us being sunbelt states, we have a lot of transient people coming through, going to the beach, uh going to vacation, one of the most visited national parks in the nation. Smoky mountains, people coming everywhere, and then the other thing is we have a tremendous amount of ports and transportation here in the south. Now, you've got Savannah, you got Mobile, you got Charleston, you've got all of this freight that's coming in. And guess what? It's going straight through all these southern states that we've talked about. Mississippi River, another huge location, lots of commerce going through there. My goodness. So it's it's really short-sighted when you don't have all the information you don't understand about the gas tax. And that's a that's a huge thing that's going on right now with TRBA there in Nashville.
SPEAKER_02The T Dot has has identified almost $60 billion worth of needs across the state. That's $60 billion with a B. And their construction program is about $2 billion a year, is what they award in contracts uh that we bid on and our competitors across the state bid on.
SPEAKER_03We ain't gonna get there in my lifetime, are we?
SPEAKER_02The the needs are far outpacing the revenue sources. So we're never gonna get there. We're never gonna get caught up with the program that we have. And that's why it's so important that we keep working to establish some type of sustainable funding mechanism that's gonna pay uh for uh for the work that we do, but but just pay for our for our needs. Just as citizens of the state, we have so many needs that you know, even if we were in a different industry, uh, the needs are still there.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and I mean infrastructure affects everybody. So beyond TRBA, Tony, you know, there's another organization you're involved in. So gas tax funding, it's really a two-part deal, right? So you've got the state dollars plus you got the national dollars. So you're also involved in a national organization called ARTBA. What what what's ARTBA stand for? And give the rundown similar to TRBA of what what it does.
SPEAKER_02Okay, so ARTBA is American Road and Transportation Builders Association.
SPEAKER_03These are unique acronyms, aren't they?
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Very creative. Very creative. Until a bunch of engineers came up with it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so the TRBA, if you that's the state organization, and ARTBA is the national organization. And the state organization is a member of the national organization. And when I was president uh of TRBA, uh, I really got more involved with uh ARPA in Washington because the uh at the time the state presidents were uh on the board uh of ARPA, which uh is really a cool thing and and to meet a lot of other contractors and transportation industry leaders from across the nation. Um I've been very fortunate in being involved with uh with ARPA. Um I was president of the contractors division uh for a year, uh served as a joint committee chairman for two years. I've been on the executive board for five years. This year uh I'm a vice president at large, which is uh one of the, I guess, the top six or seven officers in the association. So it's it's been really interesting in the people that you get to to meet, the places you get to go, things you get to talk about in in infrastructure. But you know, right now uh our our government works in a very strange way. That in order for our federal government to spend money, there has to be a law made. So they have to create a law that says they can spend money, and that's how they fund the government. That's all aspects of the government, uh, from defense to uh uh I mean, you know, every aspect of the uh of the government. They had to make a law that says, yes, we can spend money on this. The uh transportation uh part of what the government funds is is mostly funded by the highway trust fund. And part of the uh gas tax that you pay at the pump, part of it is uh federal tax, and part of it is state tax. Well, the part that goes to the uh federal government, uh the states send all their money to to Washington, and Washington has this big conglomerate uh equation that they put it in, and then they dole money back out to the states uh based on all these different variables. Well, that funding source, the law for that funding source is fixing to expire in September. And Congress has to write another law that says we're gonna pay for roads and bridges and airports and railways and buses and seaports and everything else. So that they're right now they're in the process of creating another appropriations bill to fund all the transportation aspects for the country.
SPEAKER_01Wow. So this is a crucial time.
SPEAKER_02It's very crucial. It's very crucial. If you'll remember about five years ago, uh the IIJA Infrastructure Improvement and Jobs Act under the Biden administration was passed, and that dumped a lot of money into uh highway and bridge construction. It also had a lot of other components that people agree with, disagree with, and all. But even with all the other components, the amount of money that was dumped into highway and bridge construction was was really a generational feat. There has not been that much uh single source money dumped in there uh into the program really since the founding of the program back in the 50s. So it was it was really a big deal. The challenge now is to keep funding at the level that it is. And so what we've been doing and trying to lobby Congress and educate them um that they need to appropriate the money, however they want to come up with it, to support road construction, bridge construction, uh, road repair, uh, bridge repair. You know, the the bridges that were built in the 50s and 60s are now uh 70, 60 and 70 years old. Uh we've got to look at replacing bridges, we've got to look at uh new capacity issues, uh all this while relying on the gas tax as our basis for our uh funding source.
SPEAKER_03So, I mean, most people agree we need infrastructure funding, right? Everybody agrees with Tony, yesterday you were in Washington. You got the chance to be on a panel. Explain to everybody the group you were with yesterday and what you were talking about. And it shows that it shows everybody how everybody agrees about infrastructure funding. Lay that out to everybody.
SPEAKER_02So yesterday I was in Washington and I was at an event sponsored by the U.S. Chamber. Keep America Moving was the title of the conference. They had several speakers and panel discussions all day. The uh chairman of the Senate uh EPW, the Environmental and Public Works uh Committee, which oversees the highway, she was there. The the chairman of the uh uh House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee was there. People from uh the U.S. Chamber, people from different state chambers. Uh our uh Commissioner Will Reed from T Dot was there. Uh it it was a who's who on uh infrastructure. Mayor of Chattanooga, Tim Kelly. Mayor Tim Kelly was there from Chattanooga. Uh so I mean it was really a uh a who's who of transportation people from um across the country and and especially in Washington.
SPEAKER_03But but the here's the interesting point about the whole deal. This was not an event organized by ARTBA, not an event organized by TRBA, it was an event organized by the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. They clearly understand that if we don't figure out infrastructure funding in America, businesses are gonna grind to a halt.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I mean, they get it. It's a it's it's a major, major deal. Now, I mean, look, selfishly, we all in this industry want to build more roads. We want to build more bridges. But it it is a huge issue that you just can't turn a blind eye to. I mean, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce is dragging all these people to Washington to talk about one thing, infrastructure funding, right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you had city, uh, you know, different city mayors, you had some governors that were there, uh, you had transportation officials uh from the logistics side too that that talked about just the freight logistics from uh a guy from uh UPS spoke. Uh there was uh a couple of other carriers that were there, and they and you know they talked about air freight, they talked about uh the uh inland ports and uh the rail freight that and then everything goes from there onto a truck, and 90% of everything that we touch uh or or experience comes to us by truck, and that they've got to get there on a road. So you're right, these are business leaders that are joining the the cry to say that, hey, we've got to keep up our infrastructure. We have we have to keep our uh roads and bridges in good passable condition. Uh, if you look at all the the time and and resources that are spent sitting in traffic, uh damaged vehicles because of uh uh roads being in in bad shape. And uh heaven forbid, you know, one of these bridges collapsed like we've seen over the last couple of years in uh Missouri and and in Pennsylvania and a couple of other places.
SPEAKER_03Minnesota.
SPEAKER_02Minnesota, Maryland. Uh so you know, heaven forbid one of the bridges failed, but uh you gotta keep the roads open.
SPEAKER_03I mean, if we if you don't have the roads opened, so you know it's a pretty compelling conversation as to why we need infrastructure funding. We all get it. You know, so why is it so hard in Washington to get it done? Why is it so hard in Washington to get it done?
SPEAKER_01It's such a crucial thing. You think everybody could get on the same page and be like, yeah, we gotta take care of this and do it right.
SPEAKER_03Democrats and Republicans. Right. I mean, uh they any topic becomes a political football in the world that we live in today.
SPEAKER_02Right. Well, there's no Democratic bridges and and Republican roads. I mean, it's it's all for all people, but it's just the the fear of uh, hey, I had to raise your tax, uh, and it's considered just a uh political uh suicide.
SPEAKER_03And you know, that's the thing right there, politics, right? That is why it is so crucial for Wright Brothers to be involved in TRBA. That's why it's so crucial for us to be involved in ARTBA. Right. Because we have to continue beating the drum, laying out to these politicians, laying out to the government officials of what the need is for the industry. And, you know, look, uh Tony, thank you for everything you do here at the organization to keep doing that. But it's not just Tony's cross to bear. Okay. All of us have the opportunity to vote. And guess what? If you got the opportunity to vote, you got the opportunity to have a voice also. Right. Because those people that are are in Nashville or those people that are in DC, ultimately they work for all of us that are the voters. And we need to step up and say what we want out of them, right, Tony?
SPEAKER_02Write your congressmen, write your senators. Uh we have some uh form letters that that we can help you help craft your message and uh send to your your congressman, uh both on the state and uh federal level, regardless, even for the those that live in other states other than Tennessee, we can help you with that. So just get involved, be heard, and most of all go vote.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah, an opp opportunity to use your voice.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, no doubt. So, Tony, thank you for everything you've done with TRBA ARTBA over the years. Appreciate your service there. In closing, is there anything, any closing thought you'd like to give to everybody on what they need to do, how they can be involved with these organizations.
SPEAKER_02Other than just like I said, uh write your congressman uh and go vote. And I just appreciate the opportunity to be involved with the organizations. Yeah, appreciate you, buddy.
SPEAKER_01It's amazing. Tony, thank you so much for the work you're doing. It's inspiring. Well, that's gonna wrap it up for Talk and Grit today. Don't forget, send us some feedback at a podcast at WBCCI.com. Uh, that'll do it for Talk and Grit.
SPEAKER_00That's gonna do it for this episode of Talk and Grit. Thanks for listening, and thanks to everyone out there putting in the work day in and day out. If you liked what you heard, be sure to follow the show and share it with someone who knows the value of hard work. We'll catch you next time right here on Talking Grit.