You're welcome, Professor Douglas Eyre. Douglas Eyre is an MIT graduate in math and physics. He's a former atheist, so that's a very interesting history. He's a believer in Christ today. You're welcome, uh Professor Douglas.
SPEAKER_01Thank you. And uh I'm not a professor, so just call me Doug, okay? I've done a lot of studying, but don't call me a professor. I'm just Doug. But I'm delighted to be here, Emmanuel. Delighted. Thank you for inviting me and allowing me to be a guest.
SPEAKER_00I've read about your profile and it's a very encouraging story. What do you think made you to initially compromise God's sovereignty within the scope of science?
SPEAKER_01I was bullied, not physically, but I think intellectually, is how I would describe it, Emmanuel. When I was in high school, I read in some book, some textbook, that life might have started in a dirty pond. And since that was the only explanation that it gave for the origin of life, because in the United States, you're not allowed to put God in textbooks. We have a twisted legal system about that. I thought, well, it must be true. It's in the book I'm reading. And if you don't need God to create life, then maybe this religion stuff isn't true. I this what they were saying in that textbook was total nonsense, which I now know. But for a time I thought the smart money was on atheism. That belief in God was silly, outdated, backwards, primitive, all of that and more. And I became an atheist. I thought religion was nonsense, and I became a sad and sour person. And I think it was because of this false belief that I was bullied into, thinking that this is what smart people thought, that science and God are contrary. So I'm delighted to be here with you and to help other people understand that science requires a creator. Science requires a master designer, and there is absolutely no conflict.
SPEAKER_00Is is it accidental that you discovered that truth? What helped you?
SPEAKER_01Sure. Um, I don't think it was accidental at all. Uh it's a great question. I think God gave me the gift to see how far off course I'd gotten. When my son was born, my wife decided to we should get him baptized, even though we weren't going to church. And I thought, no big deal. Okay, we can do that. And when I went to church, these people had a wonderful piece, and I sensed something. Maybe I sensed the Spirit of God. And I think God gave me a gift to realize what I was missing out on in life. But I told myself, you know, Doug, you're an MIT graduate. You like to think you're a smart person. You can't believe in God unless there's scientific evidence for God. And I didn't know about it then, but I said, Well, you're gonna dig into this, you're gonna try to figure it out. And I've spent 40 years now doing that. And what I find every week is more and more scientific evidence for God. And it is overwhelmingly wonderful, and I'm delighted to be here to share it.
SPEAKER_00That's an amazing story. And obviously, that's a message to other people. Of course, you might be having a message to the people uh who are still lost. What would you say if one said, minus God, there is no science?
SPEAKER_01Well, I think what people don't understand first, uh, there's a lot of confusion about what science is. You'll hear atheists say, Well, I'm a scientist, therefore I don't believe in God, which makes absolutely no sense. Science isn't a religion, although a lot of people confuse it as such. Science is just a way to figure out the truth. It's experimentation, it's observation. What's the best explanation? When you do those things, you find that there is no atheist explanation for why anything exists. What was the first cause? That science tells us our universe had a beginning, and that something outside of our space and time created our space and time. That our space and that not just matter had a beginning, but time had a beginning, which is deeply profound that our people. So we get that from science, and that tells us there must be a creator. We go deeper into physics, we find that this universe is not accidental. We have a creator who gave us laws of physics and gave us order. And actually, it's interesting, Emmanuel, but this the science we have today comes from the Christian religion. Because only in their belief in a rational universe did the great scientists of the past try to figure out how God did it. So if you look at Newton, Kepler, Galileo, Faraday, Maxwell's equations of light and electromagnetism, all of them were firm believers. All of them were trying to figure out how God did it. And it's no accident that modern science developed where Christianity was, mostly in Europe and surrounding areas. Instead of developing in China or India or other places, I mean, there have been great cultures over the centuries all over the world, but the only one that developed science was where people believed in a rational God. So, anyhow, back to if I could, because I like to talk, so you cut me off anytime you want, but let me give you some more science if it's okay about why science requires a creator. First of all, again, this our universe, these constants of physics, like the speed of light, the ratio of the masses of the proton to the electron, the strength of the gravitational field, are incredibly fine-tuned. That's the phrase you'll see. And this is known by all scientists. This isn't a secret. This isn't disputable. The, for example, the strength of gravity is so finely set that if it's like picking one marble out of a pile of marbles as big as the nearest star. Okay? If our unif if it was a little stronger, our universe wouldn't exist, it would have collapsed. And if it was bigger, and if it was weaker, excuse me, gravity was weaker, the gravitational pull was weaker, all the atoms would have just split apart. We we live it's like walking into a control room of the universe and finding all the dials are exactly some master designer set everything here so that life can exist. And this gets very technical, but it's true, it's accepted by all scientists. The another thing that science tells us is that we know that life had a beginning. Well, how did that happen? Let's go back to that my high school textbook that read that there was this experiment, which for anybody wants a technical name, it's called the Miller-Ure experiment, where they took some chemicals and they zapped them with electricity, and they got some compounds called amino acids that our bodies have. So they say this must be how life started. Electricity struck something. What they don't tell you is that some of the main compounds they got were toxic to life, like formaldehyde. Both Miller and Uri later said, our experiment doesn't prove that life could have started by chance. But but there it's this illusion that's in so many textbooks, even to this day. M modern scientists know life couldn't have started started by chance. The odds, in the United States, we have this lottery called a Powerball Lottery sometimes. Have you ever heard of it, or a mega lottery? So the odds of winning that are about one in a billion, uh, which are about one in a thousand million. For life to start, it's been calculated that that's about the same as you or I winning this incredible lottery ten billion times in a row. Okay. And then we get into the another factor that science shows the existence of God is in the, and this is most obvious. And Saint Paul, in his letter to the Romans, pointed it out. He said the existence of God is obvious if you look at the things that he has made. So look at us, look at all life. The technology we have in our bodies is the most advanced technology in the universe. And we run on code. So you've heard of DNA, right? Everybody's heard of DNA, which was discovered in 1953 to be a code within us. The way the atoms and certain long, incredibly complex molecules in our body, the way the atoms are arranged conveys information. DNA is like is a code that we pass down from generation to generation, which is why our children sometimes look like us. They've got a lot of the same code. They're built the same way we are. And it's not just regular code, it's far more advanced than any code that human beings have ever built. So I'm just highlighting some of the areas, just a few of the areas where modern science requires a master designer, a master creator, whose power and glory we can get a glimpse at of, as St. Paul says, looking at the things that God made.
SPEAKER_00If I take you back to Genesis chapter one to three, it is the account of creation.
SPEAKER_01Creation.
SPEAKER_00Yes, which includes human beings. The people who question God's existence are actually also listed as among God's creation. That is chapter three. So what makes scientists okay, so we have a record, but also we have information handed down. When you compare that with Hebrews chapter 11, it also talks about the aspect of faith. So there is an aspect here of community information that comes down, handed down through ancestors. So it is written. Even science books are written from of course it's dated much later than the scriptures themselves. But what makes it that some people, I'm sure not all scientists, uh what makes it what makes some people say that God does not exist, yet there is a clear account of that.
SPEAKER_01I don't know. You know, I think a lot of people are blind to God. And, you know, St. Paul said, we fight just not against people, we fight against principalities and powers. In other words, demons. And a lot of people are have given in, I think, to demonic forces within themselves. It's a spiritual warfare out there. We have the account of Genesis. Genesis is true from the beginning to the end. It's it's history. It's not some sort of myth. It's it's true. And people don't want to accept it. I think sometimes people don't want to admit God's real because they don't want to have to read the Bible or pray or go to church. They'll tell you they're too busy to do that. You know, they're too busy getting money or trying to look good or trying to be famous or whatever, all of which is gonna pass. And none of us is this life will not be forever. We all are here on earth a short period of time. People don't want to have to be nice to their neighbor, like Jesus tells us to. Maybe those are some of the reasons why people reject God. What do you think?
SPEAKER_00I don't have any better opinion than what you have just shared. Yes. Honra, the one thing is that I respect them individually, such people, without compromise of God's grace, of course. And then maybe if we come back to your sharing, you said that life is a code, but then you said that it is far more complicated for human beings. Do you think, therefore, there is a risk where a few scientists could think they could alter this code? For example, shape people the way they want. And do you think this could be a total defiance of God's core, of God's uh original design?
SPEAKER_01That's a good question. I'm not I don't think I know the answer to it. Uh there's a lot of scientists who are trying to give us the ability to change the code within us. And I think they're starting to be successful in some ways. They're mostly doing it where people have sections of code called genes that make them sick. And scientists are trying to take that out. But as far as designing, so maybe we can fix parts of the broken code within us. And we're we're broken in the generations since Adam and Eve because of errors, mutations, copying, and the coding. But will we have the ability to create better human beings than God intended? I don't think we're ever going to be able to do that.
SPEAKER_00I agree with you. And um, yeah. We we going back to the genes issue, I think you mentioned the broken code. Obviously, some people who are listening to this podcast right now would want to know in ordinary language in an ordinary language, what do you refer to as code?
SPEAKER_01Sure, code is a way of conveying information. So written language is code. You have letters. I'm only really familiar with English. We have letters, there are 26 letters, you have spaces, you have certain punctuation marks, commas, periods, etc. You put those symbols in order on a page and it means something. You can read it, you can look at it, and you can understand that code of writing means something. Okay? Now, another kind of code is computer code. You and I are talking to each other over computer code. Digital code, meaning it just comes in bits, and it's a modern miracle, this technology, that we can talk, separated so far from one another, through this code that goes the image of me is picked up by a camera here in the United States, transformed into a code, sent over to you, and your computer puts it back into an image, and vice versa. So code is just a way of conveying information. You know, there's people have been looking for code in outer space for 50 or 60 years. It's called the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence or S-E-T-I SETI. And it's like looking for aliens, basically. They've been they have these huge radio telescopes and they listen to the heavens, and what they're trying to find is a coded message. Why are they doing that? Because they know if they can find code out there, then there'll be intelligence. Because only intelligence can create code. You can't get it by chance. I'm a former mathematician. The odds are just impossible. No one thinks you can get code by chance. That's why they they have this huge project trying to look at the heavens to find code, you know, aliens, extraterrestrials out there. Been looking for 50, 60 years. They've never found any code coming from outer space. But we have found since 1953 that there is code in all life. And it's super complex code. That's the thing. So they're looking for, they're looking in the wrong place. The evidence for master intelligence is within us. Again, as St. Paul says, in the things that are made.
SPEAKER_00Right. I I don't know what you think about Daniel, chapter 12. The book of Daniel talks about the increase in knowledge. But of course, that happens before a prescribed situation, a time that God uh revealed to Daniel. So it's it's not a scare that a a group of people, the sadists, are trying to go beyond, and actually God has enabled them. I want to say God, because God created the brain, no matter how people think he did not. And I'm glad that you actually you agree to that. But also when you read the book of the book of Revelations, you will know that there is a timeline for everything. So it looks like human beings have to explore more things because everything has an end according to the book of Ecclesiastes. The philosopher, who was also another scholar, studied everything and concluded that everything has a beginning and an end. So perhaps before we go back to court, what would you think about that? In other words, what I'm saying is that the scientists will explore, but God actually has a timeline for that also, how far they can go. But obviously, everyone has a recompense, has an outcome for whatever they do. If it is in the honor of God, they shall be blessed and they shall be rewarded. But if it is in the works according to the works of Satan, as you described earlier, then obviously they are not the first ones. They are more scientists in the past, not only scientists, but even other people who have tried to be wiser than God, but God proved that human beings must obey him. He's the creator, he's the Lord of all. He has said it over and over. Yes, I don't know what you say about that.
SPEAKER_01Well, you know, and I like the passage from Romans from St. Paul that I just, you know, that God's obvious in the things that are made, including most especially in human beings. And I love it that he mentioned the human brain, because that is the most advanced technology in the universe, I think. But when talking about the scoffers of his day and a lot of today's atheists, even, you know, professors, and I've sat in dinners with these atheist professors at Harvard and other places, and all I can think of is St. Paul's words also in Romans, which is claiming to be wise, they became fools, and and exchanged the glory of the Almighty God for, I think, basically that of the devil. So claiming to be wise, these people that claim to be wise, if they deny God, they're fools.
SPEAKER_00Of course, that is said in good faith. Yeah. So I'm sure you still love them. We love them. And this is not to say uh harsh words on anyone. So maybe I would like to ask you about God. There's one thing that actually really excited me as you were talking to me. I I know God to be a miracle worker, and somehow I don't I want God. We don't limit, I I really promote the aspects of us human beings not limiting God. And there is actually a similarity between exploring more of God with the scientific exploration. And I like it when you you you are teaching us science is actually natively, science is not against God. Actually, it reveals more of God. So when you come back to the code and you saying that human beings don't have the capacity to either understand it or change it in any way, it actually refers back to the creator. Whether he uses code, uh, if I stick to the Bible parameters so that I don't go off course and maybe make anyone stumble. In other words, I'm meaning God creating us. So that looks like I obviously I'm stating it like this, but I would like you to say whether you agree or you disagree, and as a sadist, what is your what do you believe about it? So that makes me believe that actually God can change a person anew completely, transform a person. Even when a person feels like they are completely useless. If at all we are called, God can. What do you think? Can change us and transform us completely.
SPEAKER_01Totally. Jesus said with God, all things are possible. All things. God controls everything, He controls space, he controls time, he controls us. God can change anything. And and God can redeem us if we ask Him to. We have to ask.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I like the way you take things because your faith, your, your, it was your amazing descriptions about science and human beings being code. When you translate that into faith, it becomes awesome faith. Because if I take your description of human beings being code, it actually means it confirms more of God's creation. He speaking to where there was nothing and he says, let there be, and then suddenly there is, yes. That means a person who has no leg, God has the capacity to create a new leg and fix it onto that person. Yeah. What would you be your encouragement to people who are lost, who do not know about God before we cross?
SPEAKER_01Sure, that's a great question. I think a lot of us are struggling with doubts. That's the human nature. And Jesus didn't reject doubters. You think back to Thomas when Jesus came back and his resurrected body, and Thomas doubted it. Jesus didn't say, go away. He said, Come here, feel the wounds in my side. It's okay to doubt God, but look at the evidence. Pray with the evidence. Ask God to come into your heart. And if you ask sincerely, he will. The reason I do these podcasts is to help people understand that if they actually pray and look at the evidence, including hard scientific facts, they will know that God is real. And that may help them change their lives.
SPEAKER_00Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure hosting you, and God bless you always.
SPEAKER_01For having me, it's been nice.