From The Beginning

In this episode we will be speaking with the pastor who started it all here at MNV pastor Jesus Cisneros and brother Jamie who is the founder of our Church in the streets. We will be speaking on how it was at the beginning of the ministry and the challenges that were faced.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Alrighty guys, welcome to the second episode of the New Life Men's Podcast. I'm your host, Victor. This is Pete Gonzalez. And today we have our brother Robert here to give us our prayer.

SPEAKER_00 0:13

Okay, let's pray, brothers. Lord, we love you. We bless you, Lord God, and we thank you, Lord. We thank you for our salvation, Lord God. We thank you for our transformation in our lives, Lord God. We thank you, Lord God, for our for renewing our minds, Lord God. Lord God, I I pray tonight, Lord God, that through through this podcast, Lord God, you open ears, you open hearts, Lord, you open homes and you open doors, Lord God. You open you open people's lost people's hearts, Lord God, to hear your word, Lord God. And for the lost people, for the lost people, Lord God, we pray that they come to you, Lord God, just like you did the the renewing in our lives, Lord God. You do the renewing in this whole city of Lubbock, Lord God. In Jesus' mighty name, I pray. Amen. And amen.

SPEAKER_03 1:14

Amen. Amen and amen. Alrighty, guys. Let's get into this second episode of the New Life Men's podcast. We're gonna call this one from the beginning because I mean that it notes the beginning of ministries. So what I I had did like a little quick reading, and it didn't even in Genesis 1.1 it says God created the heavens and the earth. Which I mean, if you read that, it's a simple verse, something simple, but I'm pretty sure no one in their right mind could think of creating heaven and earth. So that big job, he turned into a simple verse, a sense like something any human could not create. Well, I wanted to bring our head pastor and one of our brothers that started our new churches in the streets. Wanted to bring them in and talk about how their beginnings of their ministry was and what you know problems came, what challenges, what conquers, I mean how they are going now, and everything's going now.

SPEAKER_04 2:13

Again, Peter Gonzalez, I'm over the men's group. And like Vic said, you know, it's it's our second episode, right? So and and just to break it all down again, we're making this podcast to to reach other men, right? Other men who are are hungry for the Lord, or maybe they don't, they don't not too comfortable entering the church right now, you know. At least they can listen to it, you know, and and and this one is gonna be a good one because like he said with Pastor Jesse, you know, we know you got a lot of years under your belt as being a pastor and a lot of knowledge and wisdom, right? And but a lot of other pastors can't really, when they start off, they're not fortunate enough to have somebody, you know, like you to start off, you know. So so I guess my first question, Pastor, would be I know we all gotta have a start somewhere. Was it something when you started, was it truly in your heart to have a church, or was it to start off as just working at a church?

SPEAKER_02 3:13

Both I did not like. Before I got saved, I didn't want nothing to do with church. I I I came from Christian home. My father was a pastor, but then he later on backslid. Yeah. And the whole family went down to the worst. I'm talking the worst. Everybody was drunk and just out of control, out of control at the. And I would get to see that I was just about eight, nine years old. And so I saw too many things that just completely destroyed my mind. And of course, I ran away from home at a very early age and suffered a lot and went through a lot of darkness. But one thing is when the seed is planted, Brother Peter. The Bible says that that seed is there. And you know, it's been proven. I don't know if you gentlemen knew, but they have found seeds, some of them that are I think about thousand years old or more.

SPEAKER_05 4:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:18

And the scientists have planted them just out of curiosity, and they bring forth fruit.

SPEAKER_04 4:25

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 4:25

All it takes is water.

SPEAKER_04 4:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:28

Water symbolizes a Holy Spirit.

SPEAKER_04 4:31

Amen.

SPEAKER_02 4:32

Okay. The Bible, when you speak about water, yeah, it symbolizes a move of the Holy Spirit. And so the seed was planted on me, and because I was too prideful to accept. And I was very daring in the world. I I always like being on DJ and doing other things on the radio, and of course, uh, public addresses and so on. I got involved with the Brown Berets in the San Antonio area. And so they would put me on the microphone, and I love that. I love that. I mean, it was just like, wow, in a car and telling the people, you know. I mean, it's just all, you know, I mean, I didn't even know what I was talking about, but they would feed me and they would treat me good. And hey, what do I say? And they said, well, just say that they're mean, the white people are mean, and that's what I would do. But, you know, I knew there was a calling in me later on, Brother Peter. And you know, it got so how can I call it? It was getting to me so much because I would still drink, I would come home drunk, and of course we're having trouble, marriage problems, me and my wife. Because I would promise this is the last one. But as soon as I would hang on, hang on around with my friends, I would get drunk. And but the convictions started getting after me because I was told, you're gonna be a pastor whether you like it or not, and you're gonna reach thousands and thousands of souls. And I said, How can I, a guy from the streets, homeless, reach people? I mean, who's gonna listen to me? Who's gonna follow me? Because to be a good uh people's person, you have to be a good leader. Yeah, and to be a good leader, you have to have people that follow you. If you're people don't follow you, you're not a leader.

SPEAKER_04 6:33

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 6:34

A leader is somebody that people follow. And so I thought, I don't qualify for that, and I don't want nothing to do with that. I don't want to be a pastor, I don't want to be no leader. But you know, it's funny because the Lord started opening doors. And at first I was being a two-timer. When you say two-timer, you guys remember in the old days, two-timer that your girlfriend caught you, you'd be in a lot of trouble. Oh, yeah. And I was a two-timer with God. Yeah, because uh Sundays I was with God and Wednesdays, but during the week, I was a big old hypocrite. I would go get drunk still. And I smoke and I did a lot of stuff. And you know, I remember one day I was working at the store, and I was smoking because in those days you could smoke anywhere in my old days, not y'all's, yeah, but I was smoking, and and I was working at a grocery store, and I was stacking all the boxes there for the shelves, and I took a big old puff of my cigarette, and all of a sudden I heard a voice, Brother Jesse, and it was a pastor. And I'll never forget Brother Inez Aleman, Brother Jesse. I'm so proud of you. I've been seeing you go to church, and I'm fixing to give you your first position, and I'm so proud of you, and I want you to start helping raise the offering. And I was with all the smoke in my mouth, and I didn't know where to throw it because I mean I didn't in those days it was a big sin if you were a smoker. And so I was like, mm-hmm. And I was just like, man, what am I gonna do? You can keep it all the time, yeah, it's gonna come out, and finally I I just let that puff out. It was just smoke ever over big foul as we walked out, man. But you know, good people around you, and I don't talking a lot, but I'll I'll I'll I'll let y'all talk too. But people around you, find the people that encouraged you. Yeah, don't hang around people that discourage you. Amen. You don't need to be around people like that. Because people like that will destroy your spiritual life. And there was some that, you know, would criticize me when I said my testimony and I started feeling the call in my life. They started saying, ah man, this guy never gonna be a preacher. He ain't no good. And of course, I was a street guy, so I was sharing my testimony and I shared some words that came from the streets, not realizing that those words were really cuss words, but I didn't know that. I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_05 9:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:02

So when I said the word, like the deacons, they just like almost fainted and fell on the ground and said, Man, this guy, why do you let him get up there? He's a nut, and he ain't never gonna mount to nothing. He's never gonna be nobody. If I would have listened to them, I wouldn't be here today. But I thank God that at that time I was already like another step. What I did, yes, I realized I was wrong. When they explained to me what the word meant, I was like, oh my god, I didn't, I didn't mean it. And I didn't. It was an honest mistake. Yeah, and so I said, God, please forgive me. I said, but I want you to use me. I mean, I was not guilty of this, I did not do it intentionally. I did not, I I I just didn't know no better. And like the Lord told me, I know, son, you're new and you're gonna make mistakes. Everybody makes mistakes. Yeah, but get up. How many times? 70 times seven are we supposed to forgive? 70 times seven is quite a bit. That's right. And so I got up and started more and more yielding myself to Christ, even in my job, gentlemen. I was just reading my Bible. I have a Bible, I don't know if it's here in my office, but anyway, it's old. I always keep it because it's a reminder. One Christmas season, my wife gave me that Bible, and I got mad at her because I said, I didn't want a Bible, I wanted boots. And uh, but that Bible was a life changer in my life. I started reading, reading, and reading, and y'all not gonna believe it, but at one moment I even dreamed that I was walking with Paul, the apostle. It was so awesome. I mean, I still remember those things. And so people would make fun of me. I used to work at my job, and it was a tire shop now. I was promoted, I was going from the grocery to a tire shop, and when there was no flats, I would sit down and just read my Bible. People would make fun of me. One time a man came and he was a deacon, and he said, What are you reading, Jesse? I said, I'm reading my Bible, man. I I'm learning a lot through this. This is awesome. And he said, Let me see it. He grabbed my Bible and then he threw it at my face. This is a deacon. A deacon is supposed to be somebody very uh uh spiritually dedicated. And I got up and got uh pachuku stuff on me, and I I straightened myself because I want to slap him one, you know. I mean, because you're new, when you're new, you'll make those mistakes. That's right. But I came to my senses and God said, No, son, you don't need to fight for me. Vengeance is mine. Do not let that discourage you. Like God was always talking to me. And even in my job, I would go and they started letting me drive a truck to deliver. And when I would go to the farms and deliver fuel at the Crosby County fuel, I was like, when I would be alone, like God would say, son, I'm waiting for you. And I was like, I don't want to hear this, I don't want to hear this, and I was alone, you know. I don't think guys have ever been like that. You know, we're very machos when we're in front of people. Oh, yeah. But on a one-to-one basis, it's a different story.

SPEAKER_04 12:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:14

And I remember that I could hear God's voice telling me, I'm ready for you. And I, you know, I got to the point where I went and told my boss, I said, Bob, put me back on flat fixing. I don't want to drive this truck no more. He said, Oh, you nuts. I promoted you to a better job and you're letting it go. I just don't want to be alone. I said, I don't want to be alone out there because God is talking to me. Wow. And he looked at me and said, You're going crazy. And another thing about this, about two, three years ago, I saw Bob. Oh, wow. Because Bob hurt me a lot. He was my boss. Okay. He hurt me tremendously on that and other things that he made fun of me because of my dedication to Christ. Yeah. And I saw Christ at I mean, Christ, I saw Bob at the clinic. And Bob said, Is that you, Jesse? I said, Yeah, is that you, Bob? You know, because we're already old, we kind of don't recognize each other. Yeah. He said, Jesse, it's been years I've been looking for you. I said, Really? He said, Yeah. And he started crying.

unknown 13:14

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 13:14

He said, I just want to tell you, I want to apologize to you. Wow. He said, I've told my friends I did that kid. Because I was a kid then. So many bad things to him, he said. I never realized that he had a real calling. Wow. I never realized that he was for real. He was not joking around. And I need to tell him I'm sorry of what I did to him in those past years. Wow. I just hugged him and I said, Bob, you released a big load from my life as well, because I was carrying all these years. I would remember Bob and say, Why did he do that to me? Why did he make fun of me? And you know, I was set free completely. But going back, you know, I ran as much as I could, but I couldn't no more. And finally I told God, I said, God, this is it. I'm giving myself to you. And I'm going all the way. Just like I was all the way in the world, I'm all the way with you. That even my wife told me, Jesse, I wanted you converted. But I didn't want you that converted. Like you're a fanatic now. Christ, I would go to prayer meetings like y'all have him here on Mondays. I would go almost every night of the week, and we would go into a field and gather together in a field there outside of Rawls, on a cotton field, and pray and didn't come home till about four in the morning.

SPEAKER_04 14:40

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 14:41

I mean, it was awesome. And the good thing about it, Peter, is that in that prayer meeting there was Catholics, there was Baptists, there was Pentecostals, there was Methodists, different denominations, but right there, denominations didn't matter.

SPEAKER_05 14:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:57

It was all about Christ. And we spoke in that was when I started speaking in tongues. I received the baptism of the Holy Spirit later on when that light came upon me. But you know what? That was my calling. Amen. And I enjoyed people have told me you need to write a book. And I'm I'm starting on that already. That's good. Because I'm gonna write a book and tell people look, you can make it if you only dedicate yourself unto the Lord, but also hang around godly people. You know, you know who Greg Laurie is? No. Greg Laurie is a big speaker that's right now holding revivals with thousands and thousands of young people receiving the Holy Spirit. Chuck Smith was a spiritual father. It's like a story of me and Pastor Chris. Okay. You see, Chuck Smith was the one that walked Greg Laurie into the ministry and then later on gave him the ministry, and of course, Chuck went to be with the Lord. But I got to meet them one day. And I sat down with them and I said, I need you to tell me, just like you're asking me. Yeah. I need you to tell me. And Greg Laurie told me, he said, Pastor Cisneros, all you gotta do is trust. No matter if it's a little group, trust. He said, we started on a garage. Just like your group right now, it's gonna grow. And and uh brother Jaime. And he said, just trust in the Lord. And Greg Laurie told me the same thing. Those are godly people that encourage me. And then I've had others that have encouraged me, but I'm gonna let you all talk because I can talk here forever. Yeah, no, that's a lot of people. And let me tell you of a few more. John Haggy, you know John Haggy. Oh, yeah. John Haggy. John Haggy made me sit on the floor.

SPEAKER_04 16:47

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_02 16:48

And I was buried, like I said, I was buried there, and just like I was in the world.

SPEAKER_04 16:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:52

I mean, I would drink at the age of 11 and 12. I would just get a coke can and they would pour beer on me, on it, and I would be drinking that in case uh the cops would come. Yeah, oh, he's drinking coke, he's not drinking. That's how bad it is. When I was drinking, and my old teacher, sixth-grade teacher, walked in. Hey, Mr. Vasquez, hey Jesse, what are you doing here? I said, I'm drinking a beer. Oh, that's cool.

SPEAKER_04 17:20

The teacher's like, all right.

SPEAKER_02 17:22

San Antonio's bad. I mean, on that area, our coach would say, you know, we would just go to the coach, football coach, hey coach, we need trajo. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just give it some puffs, but don't let nobody see you. And right there at the football field would be puffing cigarettes and then go play football, man. I mean, come on. Wow. But that's how bad it was. But anyway, grandfather John Hage gave me some awesome, awesome encouragement. And he taught me, you know, how one day they tried to shoot him and how they started shooting the pulpit. Not one bullet hit him, not one bullet hit the hostages that that guy had in there. He was demonic, demonized. Well, Jack Taylor, another big evangelist, one day Jack Taylor came to Rawls. Everybody in Rawls, as far as the big people didn't like me. Wow. They said I would never amount to nothing, and they were always making fun of me. But one day there was a revival where all the churches got together, and Jack Taylor was a speaker. And out of nowhere, on the top of the pulpit, Jack Taylor is Reverend Cisneros here. And I stood up and he said, Reverend Cisneros, you're a man of God. He said, And God has tremendous calling from you for you. And just started ministering to me. And my banker remember he didn't like me because, of course, I didn't I didn't pay, so he didn't like me. Turned around and looked at me and like, You? Wow. But God will give you a favor when you hang around the right people. Yeah, you hang around uh dead people, stinking people, you always be a stinking person. That's right. Hang around people that smell good, okay? And so, I mean, my story just goes on and on. I could tell you so many stories. Uri Guerra, I met him when Uri had just one year in the ministry. Others. Yeah, it's amazing where God sent me different places, but all those places were the ones that implanted in me a solid calling. And that's why I've been a pastor for 49 years. That's awesome. Yeah, that's that's really good.

SPEAKER_03 19:22

That's really good. Um, okay, brother Hammond. So I had I had a question, Willie. Man, I didn't even know how to talk about that.

SPEAKER_04 19:30

That's hard. That's hard.

SPEAKER_03 19:36

Okay, so off of a fear standpoint, because so I had right now I'm starting the pastoral classes, and fear is big in it. So I want to ask you if fear, how did you conquer your fear in starting your ministry, starting the church in the streets? How did you take that step to I'm doing it?

SPEAKER_01 19:54

Well, Pastor Jesse had to do a lot with it. Pastor Chris, you know, when I first started coming here, we knew that Pastor Jesse's heart was the streets, you know. And Pastor Sam had did some street ministry, and we would go to the parks and have little cookouts and would give out. And so the church already had been doing that, right? But when I when I came, I started getting involved. But if it was easy because we had Pastor Sam to lead it, you know, and we just show up and we would just follow, right? But man, you know Pastor Jesse has said some things to me in the 20, 24 years that I've been here, that he probably doesn't realize, but he would say things to me and then I would just meditate, you know. And but I mean when God put to do the church in the street, I was in El Paso at another church that's called is that ministry, Sam's Gangsters for Jesus, right? And it's all convicts. I mean, they're all convicts, all ex-gang members from El Paso. And um I seen this sister, well, she'll she was a friend of a friend of mine. Her name's Miriam, and she had posted the that she was gonna go to church in the alley. And I'm like, right? So I started following her, so I caught my attention. Yeah, and I reached out to her, you know, and I said, you know, I would like to go visit your church. And he goes, Well, come on, brother. Yeah, so one day I went to visit El Paso because that's where I'm from, and uh thank God I was able to go, right? Well, and she introduced me to her husband, and then her husband introduced her husband's a pastor, and her husband introduced me to the other pastor, and then we come to find out we all knew each other from the neighborhoods. Yeah, from the like hey, oh, that's you're so and so from right, and that's yeah, but now you know we're all praising God when we were out doing bad stuff, right? So that day I was I was sitting there hearing the uh pastor george was ministering that day and i was just sitting there and i was looking around and i'm oh right before right before the service pastor robert took me down the alley and he goes come on come on let's go and so i'm going and i was like what like there was the whole alley was full of tents it was it was in december i believe it was it was in the winter it was snowing oh wow like you could tell people were on drugs you could tell people were getting up from drugs they had little makeshift stoves and stuff the drug dealer was there like because i was walking and i said hey bro that's the drug dealer you go man we played trend too bro yeah these guys are hyped up you know i mean and we walked the alley we went to the homeless shelter we invited everybody right so then the church started and i'm sitting there and i this sounds gross right but i smelled the pee where the homeless and everybody used the alley to use the restroom and i'm like really god like they're having service right here yeah and i'm smelling it right and then the smell went away and i'm watching pastor george minister and the smell came again and i'm looking around man it's just people just the the the their eyes are the comes like the the the urgency of yes the word that they needed the the the it look like they the fix okay you know these are all they were all drug use and but it's the the it it was like the fix for Jesus yes like this Holy Spirit was it right and then right there I just felt like you know you should do this in love with God like nah I don't know about the right because I never felt the calling and I knew that I wanted to do stuff I knew that uh I love showing the word of God I love you but I I I didn't feel a calling right but right there some like felt it so I went up to Pastor George and he started praying with me and I said man what 20 years this is what I told him I've been serving God for 20 years. Why now man? Yeah he goes I don't know but only you and God know and this is what I told him I said you know what I would love to do this in in love and he got so excited like that he wanted me to be a part of their ministry pastor I belong to a church. I go to Minister of Nueva Vida and Love Buck you know with Pastor C S Nettles and you know I started naming the pastors and he said you know what go talk to your pastors and get their blessing first and I said you know what I'm gonna go back because I don't want to be caught up in emotion. Yeah right so I'm gonna go back and I went to Pasa you know like see what happens and just it wouldn't leave me right and I finally came to Pastor Jesse and uh Pastor Chris you know sat him down and told him what God was putting my heart in. It was scary it was scary. Yeah right but okay the Bible says well the pastor at George before I left he says brother God's gonna send you some people that you're gonna have to take care of and you better be ready to take care of because spiritually they're gonna be broken and spiritually they're gonna be coming for that right like to get fixed. Yeah you know so it's it was it was a little bit scary you know but I just said man you know God's put it in my heart I've been here 20 25 years you know I figured that I I I would uh step out in faith you know awesome and I was by my I was by myself I had I talked I had a matter of fact I talked to brother Peter and Pastor Jason I said well this is what I told the pastors I said I want to start a ministry an outreach church in the street I want to put something together but I'm gonna need pastors to come and minister yeah that's what I said and that's why I reached out to Peter and to Jason right my one day we were in service and uh Pastor Chris turned around and he goes man you're that street preacher bro so now I had to take because after I was once I stepped out in faith to put it together I just felt that all I had to do was I was I'm in the I'm in the back you know I just put it together I gotta watch I got I gotta I just get too watched you know they they everybody's gonna bring the word of God yeah not an I'm that's not a responsibility but it didn't turn out that way for me you know yeah and so I got I go I go to the church on the street and you know you guys know Stanford and Jessica and they introduce me to everybody as the pastor and I'm like you know I like mm you know but I I just let it you know I don't I don't I don't claim the title pastor but I mean I'm out there sharing the word of God and that's how they see me now. But and how God put it together for me was he started sending people you know your your girlfriend's grandma or your wife's grandma my wife's grandma she come nowhere bringing burritos you know every once in a while people show up to share the word of God we I had gone to uh to a men's group with Robert Basaldura Patrick's son-in-law we went to a a men's group and that morning I took a different route because I had to put air in my tire and ended up picking up this guy named I picked up this guy you know at seven in the morning he's walking right and then but right away I passed him and right away I started making excuses of that I was gonna pick him up later I said God I said all right Lord right now I got to put gas Lord I got to put air and I was driving away I finally gave it I said all right Lord I'll go back so I came back got next to that guy and I said hey bro this is gonna sound crazy but I'm going to a men's group do you want to go and this guy is again like from the street he's all tattered you know he's a he's a he's a he's a a gangster you know you could tell right away and uh and he goes for real and I said bro you want to go let's go and he goes no said porque but let's go yeah he got out we I rushed to the men's group I mean the men's uh conference I introduced him to some of the guys there he gave his life to the Lord you know he he was praising God I mean I I mean I mean I this guy went from the street to the church not knowing what's going on you know so right there as we were going there I was telling him like man bro you know I'm gonna have to leave a little bit early so if you need a ride I could take you if not you could walk from there bro but I have to come back to the park because I got another ministry I got to go to that's church in the street well after we got out of the church he knew that I was in a hurry to come back to the church to the park right to minister to the people and he said to the other members from that church he goes hey you know I know no disrespect but this guy's in a hurry we gotta go and somebody uh like from back here he says you know what bro the Holy Spirit is gonna take care of that over there where he needs to be because this is your time yeah and I looked at him I like okay but I'm still anxious because I'm like I'm nervous you know I have I have a responsibility but when he said that he says the Holy Spirit is gonna take care of the where he needs to be this is your time so I looked at that guy and I said okay right like who are you to say that yeah in my mind right but I I I I stayed quiet and you know what Pastor Jason I maybe know Robert was with me. Pastor Jason and Sean were and Shantae took care of the service while I was over here that and right there I got more like comfort not comfortable but like okay God has this I don't have to worry about it so much you know and because that ministry is not my ministry. It was just God put it in my heart to make it for the people out there. Yeah and I know you've been out there and you've been out there you know and I tell them this ministry started because God was thinking about those people in that because the people that yeah and I tell them I said this is y'all's church and I I invite them to the church over here. I tell them you know we're from Minister New Life Ministries to North Boston you guys are welcome to come to our church on Sunday. I said but right now this church on Saturday church in the street is for you guys. God was thinking about you guys when you put it in our heart because I mean it's kind of hard to wake up every morning you know on a Saturday to go but dedication but the consistency is what when God put this on my heart consistency was with it and I'm like what do you mean well this we've all done church we've all done outreach out minist street ministry you know we all and then we always say that you know God water it we planted the seed God's gonna water it right but I always felt that some people needed another a place to come back to so that we could water that seed you know so the people that come to church in the street and we have some some faithful members you could say right yeah and I've already had I've already had uh my first church hurt per se you know uh we had some people leave but I'm not there to build a church I'm just there to share the word of God and whoever comes gets it you know yeah that's fair but just the fear just you're gonna have to launch out yeah take that leap of faith yeah because you gotta remember it's not us yeah it's not us it's it's it's you you gotta trust God to let it happen you know yeah and uh so just trust God the fear is gonna be there uh because the the fear of failure the fear of failure is yeah more than anything because you don't wanna again when Pastor George from a pastor said God's gonna send you some people that you're gonna have to take care of don't let just anybody come and preach because those are the souls that God sent you to take care of. And that's it's heavy.

SPEAKER_04 32:36

Yeah that's real heavy and and and I wanted to gather that because right you know the two things you guys talked about right like Pastor you talked about failing at the beginning right and because you were double minded right which for a lot of people who are listening right now right we got a lot of men that'll be listening and they feel guilty of that right being double minded which which I think a lot of us when we first enter the church we're double minded right because we don't want to let go of that that that that that part of us right and which I'm actually reading a book you know that spoke on that today you know on the chapter I'm in is truly releasing you know who you were so you can truly have that call with Christ right and I know a lot of men that's why they don't want to enter a church because they feel guilty because of that right so that that's what I was picking up a lot you know going back and forth. But then when you finally do come in and and dedicate yourself right it's also about not being stagnant right you don't you're not supposed to be scared because first of all God calls the the how does the saying go he he chooses the unchosen right yes the ones that everybody else is like yeah he's not gonna yeah he's not gonna do nothing right and and and that's kind of like what I what I'm gathering from from Jaime you know he he he he he finally said you know what man I'm gonna I'm gonna step out and do something but it's scary right because I remember like when Pastor Arturo asked me for to do the men's group I was like me I was you know I was like what did I know I was like they're they're they're all older than me that's the first thing I told him and I was like I don't think they're gonna want to listen to me and he was like they were kind of like that right like we're talking about souls right well he was like well you're you're not there for because of age or whatever you're there because it's it it's a it's something that hey it's in it's a calling right you're gonna you're gonna do and so when I when I myself started doing it I started reading a lot like Timothy and you know because it was you know of course Timothy was kind of the same way like hey well he was telling Paul like I don't I'm not ready for this right like they're not gonna listen to me I'm young and and Paul was just there to encourage like hey no you know you you you're gonna do it you know and and so for me like to tie it in with the men is like you know if you're out there listening it's hey man like like if it if you're double minded at the beginning that's fine you know we're not gonna be perfect right you know you it's gonna be a process to let go of your old life because that old life was saturated inside you for so many years right so just just give it to God because that's something the enemy's gonna keep you right he's gonna use that your past to say no you're not ready for church you you still smoke or you still have a few drinks here and there don't don't go to church it's not even worth it right yeah but I mean would y'all guys agree that's probably the enemy right trying to keep you so like for me it was not being able to learn scripture like I I can't I can't I can't say but you it's happening now yeah like uh John John I I read at the church at Church and Studies past uh John 1125 yeah it was about the resurrection right and yeah and now I could I could I can't quote it yeah but don't give up you know because we're we're not man though how can I say like like you said God chose the unchosen right like we think less of us because of what we did right we we feel like embarrassed ashamed yeah right yeah but me for me it was like man I I was around I'm around people and they're like yeah Proverbs this says I I I know that it's in the Bible but the one thing that I've learned that I'm not gonna pretend to be a scholar yeah I'm not I know it's here right so if I'm gonna read it or share with somebody I'm gonna Google it and find it right there's a lady from the church in the street that text me two days ago she said brother how do you put a sermon together and I I just told her I said you know what I I get a scripture and then I tie it into my life and I share the word of God.

SPEAKER_01 36:46

Yeah that's it I I put my testimony I put what I've learned from that scripture and and then I read the scripture right and then I tie it in and I just share because I don't want to start grabbing things out of the yeah you know you will never impact have that impact you know you want to have a bit like the pastors man they boom boom boom boom right I can't yeah they'll do it right but if you try to be like them you're gonna lose you're gonna lose your porque you're gonna feel like man I never did I can't do it like that. Me I I am where I am because that's where I am with God. And and and you know one I one thing I know for sure is that you just gotta trust God bro you know and never don't be afraid and and another thing too that I've been wanting to say is like it doesn't matter how long you've been in church me I've been here going on 25 years and why why now yeah I don't know I don't know right but I could have used like man my time's past I just well I don't to be honest I did I had left the church for a little bit not because of church or not it's because because of my divorce in my divorce I didn't want to hear nobody come hug me I didn't want to hear like I think I just needed that time alone right and uh I was at this church and right there at the church that it was a Sunday I said God man I want to go back home to Apostle and instant I'm I'm talking instantly he says nope go back to your home church and I said really I want to go back to a pastor but right there that Sunday I said you know what I'm I'm I'm go I'm coming back right and but this is what I took out I don't know if I've shared this with anybody but this is what took out I said all right Lord I'm gonna go back to my home church was this here I said but I don't want to be a leader I don't want to do nothing I just want to be a member I just want to sit in the back yeah listen to the word of God and leave that that's all I want to do that's it but I tell people for me it's too late I gotta realize for me it's too late because my spirit is awakened yeah I start seeing things and I'll be back there and I'll be looking at things and I'm like man and I will go talk to Brother Bill I say brother I remember when before I left this and this and this and I said well step up to it like no man I don't want to do it I don't want to do it. But little by little God just started tugging at my heart tugging at my heart tugging on my heart and then I I uh started I don't want to say like I wanted to be over those but I just wanted to help but it when you realize that your spirit man the spirit that God has put in our and every man and every woman you know is dormant. Yeah but when the word of God comes it's it's awakened you know and one time I was here at church too there were I can't remember who's ministering and they got to a part where it said God can't judge you and why you don't know right I mean I'm talking about right there I looked up and I said Lord I don't want to learn no more it was that those are the times that you have to realize when God tells you it's too late. Yeah it's you you you can want to stop but you it's just that's you won't you can't you gotta go and then that's when you kind of start being more obedient to the word of God and surrendering more to God because you know we don't like Pastor Jesse you we don't ask he didn't ask he didn't he didn't want it but the calling's there yeah you know me my calling is to be out there to minister to to minister to those that think that they can't come to church. Yes that's my the ones that feel unwanted to the the un the ones that feel unwanted not knowing that they're wanted yeah you know thank god that I was able to step in the church you know I I stopped like four times in the front before I even walked into church but as soon as I walked in I just felt the the love you know the the welcoming the and you know later on the pastors tell me can't see me you know and I don't blame them. I mean they don't know me yeah you know and then now now what I know lo que está pasando in other churches. Yes you know and now being helping with the ushering and the security I I understand now right yeah I don't look like but those are the Pastor Jesse when he showed when he told me that he was homeless and I don't know you remember but we went to San Antonio I think we were going to to Monte oh yes yes he took me around the neighborhood and he says right there it wasn't empty no more but he said this lot right here was empty full of trash I used to go through there yes finding food to eat because I was man wow you know those are those you know those are things you know I've I've been around Pastor for a long time he's got onto me that's another thing that's another thing man people can't take that a time you're gonna get told and you're not gonna expect it just let it go yeah and then let me let me say you know like for example in the Bible it's there yeah there's Mark you know the one that wrote the book of Mark and then there's Paul and Mark was kind of being lazy and you know he would always be late he would always procrastinate so one time you know he told the other gentleman he said look I'm fed up with this guy this guy is not worth it he's not worthy of the gospel he's not worthy of the honor he started letting them have it that they had a word to word yeah that they split I remember that Mark left right yes on the book and he left yeah but Mark went one way Paul went the other way mark got some people with him park Paul got some people and Satan thought he had one he didn't win because now it was double power yeah but you know it went like this I know people not seeing me but it went like this and then at the end it went like this full circle when Paul was in prison and that really touches me because he said he told one of the gentlemen said please bring Mark to come see me because he's a blessing to my life and a blessing to my ministry.

SPEAKER_02 43:36

Paul was about to die he was going to be uh executed or beheaded and he said send mark to come to me that's the power of forgiveness that's right yeah that's the power but if at the same time you know seriousness over here like like Prohibition said sometimes we have to draw your attention if you're walking wrong yeah my job as a pastor is to let you Know otherwise you'll mess up. It's like I used to have livestock, and if I don't take care of them and see where they're getting, and I'm gonna get into a lot of trouble. I have some little dogs, I gave them a bath today. But then Pastor Sammy went and fertilized my lawn. And I told my wife, man, I have to take them out at night so they can do their thing. They're gonna come back home.

SPEAKER_03 44:22

Yeah, they're gonna come back.

SPEAKER_02 44:23

So I said, now I'm gonna have to put on some shorts and a shirt, and I'm gonna have to go through the front yard where it's not the sprinkler's not on, so they won't get dirty. But you see, I'm taking care of my animals, and I'm not comparing people to animals, but what I'm trying to say is if you care about somebody, you have to tell them the truth.

SPEAKER_03 44:40

You have to give them that correction.

SPEAKER_02 44:41

Yes, you have to, you have to. And it's in love, of course, in love. Yes, and if they listen, they're gonna become good leaders. If they refuse to listen, they're gonna have a head-on uh collision with the enemy, you know.

SPEAKER_04 44:56

So um yeah, because even God gives us correction. Yes, he will, he will, you know, yeah, he corrects us.

SPEAKER_02 45:03

Yes, there's moments when God finally says, I mean, I'm gonna let you have it.

SPEAKER_04 45:06

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:07

I mean, I could there's another incident, another story in the Bible, but this guy was having sex with his stepmother in 1 Corinthians, chapter 5. And Paul said, He's wrong. And turn him into the devil.

SPEAKER_04 45:27

Now that's tough. Yeah, that's tough.

SPEAKER_02 45:29

And Satan took advantage of it. But then in 2 Corinthians 5, it tells the end of the story. You see, you always have to read the whole Bible, yeah. Never just go by one verse, because if you go by one verse, it says Peter or who was the one that hung himself, Judas hung himself. Yeah, and then as you as you do, and then get another verse, and okay, let me see what God says here. And as he did it, you do it. And like, wait a minute. Be careful how you interpret the Bible too. But you know, at the end, Paul said, You know this guy that was messing up. They said, Yeah. He said, I want you guys to go to him now. He has suffered so much that he's about to die in spiritual agony. He's ready to come back to the Lord. I want you to go and embrace him, forgive him, restore him, and bring him back. And this guy came up back as a powerful servant. See, God is a God of forgiveness. You screw up.

SPEAKER_03 46:25

Hey, yeah, get up. Yeah. Man, this was an amazing, amazing episode. This is a good one. I love it. So I just want to ask one question before we close. Okay. What's what's one thing that you just, if someone's starting a ministry, someone's starting, I mean, even their walk with God, what's something that you're, I mean, that you use to help you continue in your walk, just a little word, a little saying, just to help boost your, you know, your love, not being feared, not being scared to boost that love, to keep going, to make that more steps.

SPEAKER_02 46:59

Yes, I I I encourage, I again, I embrace, but at the same time, I'm very also use caution. Yes, that uh because some people get into the ministry because of emotion. And right now, I mean, if you read the news, it's about three more pastors fell in molestation and adultery and so on, and it's just going on and on and on right now. And so you have to be careful at the same time, you know, and and so I make sure of that. And you know, there was one portion of scripture where it says that this guy was preaching and he was having a lot of success. The apostles uh came to I think it was Christ, I think. I'm getting old, guys, and came to Christ and they say, Hey, this guy is preaching about Christ. No, I uh they went to Paul, I think. And should we stop him? Oh, yeah. And he said, Why stop him? So, well, he's not part of our group. Paul said, wait a minute, guys, this is not whose group you belong to.

SPEAKER_05 48:06

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:06

He said, if it's of God, he will overcome. Yeah, but if it's not of God, it'll end, and that's true, yeah. And so, in other words, this is the way I look at it. When things are of God, you will succeed. Yes, no matter what. This guy's brother Hyman's been through a lot of things in his life, but yet he's overcome because it's of God. Yeah, God has a plan and God has a purpose. Other people, they go through just a minor, a little minor thing than what he went through, and they're already drunk and they're already backslipping, they're already cussing, they're already against the ministry, and so on. So, what's of God will stand. So, I'll make sure that it's of God so that they can succeed and not be discouraged if things don't work out.

SPEAKER_03 48:54

Amen. That's awesome. This is a that's a amazing time. I thank y'all for listening, and I hope y'all have a wonderful day.