Why You Feel Sad Even When You Say You’re ‘Fine’

You say, ‘I’m good,’ but are you really? In this episode, we explore why people feel sadness or loneliness even when everything seems fine on the surface. From subconscious programming to social pressures and emotional autopilot, we unpack what keeps us stuck, and how conscious choices can shift the way we experience life.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

There's something in your life that you're not willing to sacrifice. Because our our spirits may be you may come from an infinite spirit, but ultimately life is finite and we only have room for so much. And people aren't willing to make room for what it is they need to heal, and they're not willing to let go and not willing to sacrifice. So maybe you can have all the bravery in the world and you can have that want.

SPEAKER_00 0:24

But if you're not willing to let go of what isn't serving you, you cannot make room for what will serve you. You have and and you know, I have a statement on the outside of my door that says it's not change that is painful, but rather our resistance to change. And it's a fact.

SPEAKER_03 0:41

Alright, alright. Alright. I am I am so happy right now. I'm happy because uh Tom Brochet is with us, and I've been I've been wanting you to get on with us for a while. He's an uh actor, writer, teacher, director, the you name it stay stay stand-up comedian. Uh I met him through stand-up comedy, and I actually uh I chose a topic today that's gonna kind of have some parallels or or at least some integration when it comes to the world of comedy, or I would assume so. So uh Tom is a creative person, he's a uh he's an introspective person, so that's the type of people I would like to have on. And um, you guys just met each other even though you met years ago and we we discussed over here. Alright, so I I'm gonna read something off and then we'll take it from there.

SPEAKER_00 1:38

And uh what happened what happened to the intro, trailer, music, and all that, man.

SPEAKER_03 1:44

Don't worry about that. We'll we'll figure that out later. Um okay. The difference between being alone and being lonely is alone, it's just a fact that we can embrace and make decisions about loneliness. It's got an emotional charge to it that's very much a matter of perception. You can be alone and not be lonely, and you can be surrounded by all kinds of people and be completely lonely. So there comes how open am I? How vulnerable am I really willing to be? What defenses have I erected around myself to protect myself that's keeping me from really connecting or contacting others? Alright? That's a long that's a long one. Yeah, but it's something because what I've figured out, at least in my short artistic life, is you need introspection, and with that sometimes comes either as it says, being alone or loneliness. So how do you break out of it? Should we break out of it? Is it okay? Is it okay in moderation, just like anything else? Or is it a problem? Because there's a communal issue going on in the world, no matter where that is, but especially in the United States, because we're so individualized as a society that people forgot that we came from community, we came from unity, and now we're all alone. So when we're alone out there, get it on your own, do your thing. They mean that when they say that, and it's not necessarily healthy or conducive to long-term growth as a community, as a people, as like going forward. Because the more individualistic we get, the more isolated we get. And as we see today, look at them all all of the suicide rates in in the developed countries around the world. And then if you look at impoverished, you know, let's say global south, whatever terminology you want to use, countries, they still have that fundamental unity and community that's keeping them from doing that. But like everything, when there's a negative, there comes a positive. So through that negativity and the individualistic individualistic society comes out that that that rose that grows from the concrete. So I I'll I'll start, I guess, with Tom. I just want to know, I guess, am I right by saying what I'm saying in terms of uh artistry?

SPEAKER_01 4:44

So I I do think that I think and I'm gonna use the words interchangeably, right? Because it's like we can talk about like loneliness as like isolation, right? And then there's like alone time, right? Like the the solitude that you have to be introspective. Um, and I think I think going there's it there's an idea of of balance in life, right? Where everything that's a medicine is a poison, right? And the only difference is is moderation. So you can think of even like water, right? Like no water will kill you, you'll die, you'll be dehydrated. Too much water and you drown. But just we need the right amount of water. You can do that with every single element, right? We need fire, we need air, we need earth, we need water, you know, and even even life toxins, like the poisonous toxin of like, I'm sure certain snakes probably have some kind of medicinal value up to a point. I think solitude and loneliness are the same, where you know, you need a certain amount of solitude in your life and it's medicine and it's necessary. And everyone, depending on their upbringing, needs more. Some people need less. And the same with community. Community is also a medicine, but to a certain point, um, everyone has certain boundaries. So depending on your community and how you were raised, um, it's all very uh depending on the individual. So, so in general, that's where I would that's where I would start. And I would, I would, I would look at something like this. Personally, as a person, um I resonate a lot with the word loneliness. Like I love being alone. Like I I love like I love myself, and I think part of that is through like my relationship with God, and also some things I probably take for granted, like my family, you know, like I think I'm I'm less lonely than I think I am sometimes, and because of the things we take for granted. Um but at the same time, I think I can be more lonely than I think I am, and I think that's kind of where I'm in my life, like uh where I'm like, you know, I uh I've been focused on myself a lot these last couple years, and I've started to realize like, oh, like I I think I need more community and things like that. Um But those are my first thoughts when I hear when I hear the conversation. It's definitely been something that's been on my mind as a person, so I was like, oh, it's very, very relevant to like where my mind's been at lately.

SPEAKER_04 7:04

Powerful. Glenn?

SPEAKER_00 7:09

Um, you know, I I definitely can concur with everything you just said. But I always, you know, when I when people when questions are put towards towards me, the first thing that comes to mind is the person who's asking the question um what's their definition, you know, of the question they're asking me because my perspective may not be what their perspective is. So if we're generalizing those two terms, loneliness and what was the other one?

SPEAKER_03 7:41

Uh just being alone.

SPEAKER_00 7:43

Just being alone and loneliness and being alone, right? And like you said, like Tom said, everybody's autonomous in their conviction about those two things because of their developmental process of how they were associated to those two things. So we are programmed to a certain extent, right? Growing up. Loneliness and being alone as a child can take on a whole lot of different um realities for each of us, because all three of us were brought up in different environmental, you know, circumstances that loneliness might not have been a problem, but being alone, you know, might have been a big problem. So that could for that person who had to experience that as a child growing up, that could be traumatic. You know? So his definition and his own.

SPEAKER_03 8:34

I I think that's where uh what I what I read off said is said it's really a matter of perception. Because loneliness has, you know, alone, less negative, it has a negative connotation to it, and it's a matter of perception. So me saying I'm alone right now, that's a lot different from me saying I'm lonely. So when you say you're lonely, that that that's negative.

SPEAKER_00 8:59

Um not really. That's my that's my point. See, when I say I'm well, I don't never say I'm lonely. You know, because I'm yeah, I I I don't use that because it's not true from my perspective. When you say you're lonely, what are you saying? You're saying something negative. That's what I'm saying. So, so okay, now if I say I'm lonely, chill, chilling, good. So so are you so lonely to you is a negative thing. Yes. But being alone is not a negative thing.

SPEAKER_05 9:39

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 9:41

So tell me the why those two are different.

SPEAKER_03 9:46

Because it's the connotation you put to the word, it's the the emotional uh weight that you have on the word. When I hear I'm lonely, and this could vary from person to person, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't broadly speaking. When I hear I'm lonely, that is something in that's negative. Loneliness, the state of being lonely, alone.

SPEAKER_00 10:15

All right, you know, when I hear you say that, the first thing that came to mind is like, where did that come from in the originality of the definition for that term from antiquity to now? Why are we staying in a box of definition when you can actually define it in the world? Yeah, but that's the same thing.

SPEAKER_03 10:33

We've discussed this before, and and we don't need to.

SPEAKER_01 10:36

Is the conversation about like the definition of loneliness versus lonely, or are we discussing like the positive and negative aspects of loneliness? Because those are two different conversations. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 10:50

True. Well, another context with that is loneliness, as I see it, is isolation and isolation can come out and like I said, rose from the concrete, and it can also go places that I don't even need to say. So the idea is what where where do we draw the line between the two distinctions? How do we get out of the negative loneliness mindset rather than you know staying in the loneliness mindset when really you're just alone and should enjoy your peace being alone, and it's you, God, you, yourself, however you may feel, and change the negative perception that you may feel with the term loneliness.

SPEAKER_01 11:44

Well, it definitely, if if for sure, I would I believe it varies person to person, and we can only speak our personal experience. Uh so that being said, um, and even in a personal experience within myself, that can change within my lifetime. You know, when like what what could have made me feel lonely yesterday might not make me feel alone today, you know? Um so I think a lot of that has to do with, you know, I'm trying to think without being vague and just saying like mindset and perspective, like trying to pull from like specific moments in my life. Like um, you know, like I've definitely I've definitely known what it's like to to not be physically alone, but to be emotionally, mentally alone. Because then we also can talk about the realms, right? Like you can be uh physically surrounded by people, but feel mentally alone, right? And you can feel mentally, I agree with you on certain things, but emotionally we may still feel alone. And I mean I may be physically, mentally, and emotional. I don't know if this is possible, but I could be mentally, physically, emotionally, like not feel alone, but spiritually feel alone. But I feel like if you feel lonely spiritually, you know, like I think you'll see that in the other aspects of your life as well. I think spiritual is is a lot. I don't know how I feel about that. I think everything's kind of it depends what you have is your spirituality and whatnot, but yeah, um, yeah. So those are those are just kind of my thoughts right now.

SPEAKER_03 13:16

Um that that you're saying alone, and I said there's you know, low being alone to me means nothing. It just means you're I'm alone right now. Hey, bro, I'm I'm alone right now. Me saying, hey, dude, I'm lonely. That's when it's like, hold on a second, let talk to me. What's going on?

SPEAKER_01 13:38

It has an emotional. But we also we also can agree that someone can have a positive connotation behind that. Like, it's kind of like you ever been like, you ever been like, like I'm sad today? Like I'm sad today, and that's beautiful. Like there's a beauty behind the sadness. You know what I mean? Maybe not in those words, but yeah, I follow. But you know what I mean? Like you you wouldn't word it the same. So I think in that same way, like, like you like and and there's a little bit of a devil's advocate in me as a person. So I think I like I know what you mean when you say like loneliness versus alone, right? But the more we say it, the more I'm like, you know, sometimes it is kind of nice to feel lonely. You know what I mean? I don't know, I don't know if I even know what I mean. No, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:19

I know there's a truth in there. You're absolutely right. And that's why I was saying when it comes to the trying to what we see as a social society, and all of us are victims to it. We have been given these terminology and definitions since we were born, and now we're stuck with that to define things, but now you're discovering in your own individual development those definitions means nothing. Because when you're going through it, you're giving it new definitions. And it just like you said, loneliness to me or isolation to me is a positive thing because I use it in a positive way, so it's not a negative thing, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:54

But then I could use that for all the most derogatory words in the world, and we could play the game of semantics till I turn blue in the head and everybody dies. But you but you I think why would you when you have objective definitions? Why am I gonna be like, well, maybe loneliness means something that it doesn't? Because if we look up definition right now, it's gonna have a negative connotation, it's gonna say a distress feeling, blah blah blah.

SPEAKER_01 15:20

I have a belief, there's a belief. I haven't I have it written on my wall right here. It says if I can break a definition, it can't be that thing. So there are words that have a positive and a negative connotation. So loneliness in itself could be positive or negative.

SPEAKER_03 15:36

If we're gonna talk about that, let's say that then are we gonna really say that and be like, I so now we say nigga, and nigga all of a sudden means something positive, my nigga. Like the game could go on forever and ever. It it does, but let's be honest, is that is that productive? Is that productive? Yeah, depends on what we're talking about. It's productive, yeah. Like, I guess we can, but but like what's the point? I understand taking the word nigga and making it a positive thing because it that's a very specific word. But if we're playing the game with taking nigga, then we gotta do that with every single word. Or when does it stop? I think so. You want to do it for every single word?

SPEAKER_01 16:30

It's context though. That's what I think that's what that's what I that's what I'm saying. Is it's if we're gonna talk about the word, the word needs a context. That's right. Otherwise, it's meaningless. Everything is meaningless without context. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 16:43

Yeah. And and that and and that's why it doesn't matter, that's why I'm saying to you from antiquity to now, we're just going on platforms that has already been built on definitions of things from a historical perspective. But do you have your own? Yes. You will cultivate it as you go. So, like for Tom, he can look at isolation as a positive thing because he loves isolation. I love being isolated because it allows me to be introspectively and really sound in my vision for tomorrow.

SPEAKER_03 17:13

Let's narrow the focus so we're not just playing a game about semantics and changing definitions. If we're talking about loneliness, semantics, it's a hundred percent. If I look up the definition of wrongness right now, it's gonna have a negative connotation. But you're gonna say, yeah, but that's the individual definition.

SPEAKER_00 17:32

Hey, but you're proving my point. You're going over a definition that's been given to you to live by it for the rest of your life from somebody who came up with that perspective and it stayed that way. It doesn't mean it's true. That's somebody's opinion.

SPEAKER_03 17:47

So the dictionary is if I make a word, or if there is a word that has objective, you know, root, suffix, prefix, go together. Now I'm saying, wait, that word doesn't mean what it means, even though the the prefix, suffix, and root is still there, and it means just that. Is that what you're saying?

SPEAKER_01 18:11

I got two words for us. I got two words for us. So there's there's let's let's say let's say we discuss loneliness, right? As well, you're saying, Mo, loneliness, sadness because no one has friends or company, right? And then there's a word, I believe it's it says isolophilia. We can use another word for this. That sounds like annoying to say. So a strong affection for or preference for being alone and in solitude. So we're discussing that, right? The difference between sadness because of a lack of company, and the difference between um an affection for the lack of company, right? So we're we're discussing, like without without using the word, let's stick to the definition, right? So the definite what it means to feel negatively because we lack company versus what it means to feel positively because we lack company. That's what the discussion is, right?

SPEAKER_00 19:04

But you're giving it context, so it changes with context.

SPEAKER_03 19:07

Well, I mean, if you re if you read the actual context of what I was trying to express or what I was saying, it was saying just the difference between alone and loneliness as an idea, as a concept. And then it if it goes on to say vulnerability or the lack thereof for me to be able to open up and contact people, the inability. So, with that context in its entirety, I would assume that your non-willingness or inability to open up to somebody, it's something negative or explicitly negative. Maybe not. Maybe you might say, hey, well, I mean, if you don't if you don't want to you can go on and on like that. But when you're talking about that, is being vulnerable conducive to healthy relationships? I would say yes. You can maybe disagree. Is being vulnerable productive to have a a society and and become a man or just a stronger person overall, I would say yes. You can say no. But in that context, I believe that I expressed enough to say, hey, okay, we're talking about loneliness as a negative concept rather than just being like, hey, but the word loneliness means something different from person to person. We could go there if you really want to. But if I'm talking about the inability to be vulnerable, like I said, then I think that's negative. Why can't I be vulnerable? Why can't I reach out to somebody even though it's just one phone call away? Why can't I FaceTime my mom? Why can't I FaceTime my dad? Why can't I say, hey, what's up? What's up, Diti? Like, I miss you. Why can't I do that? I can't open up. But I'm lonely, and I'm the one to blame for my loneliness.

unknown 20:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 20:54

And then you could say, oh, well, no, I'm just alone. No, I'm lonely. There's a difference.

SPEAKER_01 21:01

There are people, there are people though, who there are people, there is a difference between the people who who within themselves, there's there's different internal and external obstacles to loneliness, right? There is someone who might say, I have people I can reach out to, and I have a society and a community, a community in which I can be vulnerable to, but for some reasons, I'm not able to choose that within myself. But then there are people who are in societies where they could actually be hurt from being vulnerable. And there are people who are in families that it's not that it why can't I reach out to my auntie? But it's just like, yo, if I'm vulnerable with my auntie, that might hurt me more. You know what I mean? Like if I open up to my my my homies, my homies are actually toxic and I actually need to change my entire environment. So, in that way, that might be an example of the people who are surrounded but feel lonely because even if they reach out, that it's like they're just you know what I mean, they're just setting themselves on fire versus the People who should be reaching out because they're cold and they want that warmth, but maybe they don't feel worthy of it for some reason, or because they've been in those toxic environments and they're so used to like reaching out and being hurt that now that they've moved on from that environment, they're still in survival mode, and they haven't yet adapt they haven't upgraded the software to be like, oh, it's time for me to move on and reach out. So that's one of my thoughts is in in regards to like um the privilege of be vulnerability is is as much of a responsibility as it can be a privilege.

SPEAKER_00 22:34

Yeah, and you know, listen to to when you know, of course, when I'm listening to people, man, we're looking at a whole historical reference of that person's life, why they're coming to their present um perspective. So that's why this this that type of question, looking for a definitive answer that would be generalized throughout society is impossible.

SPEAKER_03 22:57

Right? There is no definitive, but in the in okay, is being vulnerable good or bad? Well, again, like I I would go back to you what I'm saying. No, no, no. I'm saying I'm now talking, I'll give it more specific more specificity. Boom. In a reciprocal relationship with somebody you're sharing a bed with.

SPEAKER_01 23:19

Okay. If I'm sharing a bed with someone speaking, when you say what do you mean by reciprocal? Because what if I'm sharing a bed with someone abusive, and my job isn't to be vulnerable with that person, but to to find help outside of that, you know? Like maybe I need to be vulnerable with someone. I think, I think, I think I think vulnerability, I'll say this vulnerability is important, but who you're vulnerable with is what's important. So vulnerability is a necessity in life, a million percent. We have to be vulnerable with ourselves. We have to be vulnerable with ourselves first.

SPEAKER_03 23:56

You know, I mean like you give, I give. We love, uh uh, I love, got it.

SPEAKER_01 24:03

So inherently, an inherently like healthy, but healthy reciprocity. Yes. Yeah, then yeah, if you're if you're in a if you're in a healthy relationship and the repo reciprocity is healthy, then a million percent vulnerability is necessary, without without a doubt.

SPEAKER_00 24:20

And you know, and if you think about what you just described with two people coming to synchronize with each other and believing and wanting the same thing, right? They both have to be on that same belief system because if they're not, you're gonna have opposition. So if you're saying uh in the context of being with somebody, it's like I was telling the client earlier, they both have to be on that same perspective of like one was having expectations of the other. The other one did not even have a clue of what they were expected to be fulfilling. Then when it wasn't done, the other one had premeditated resentment because the other person who did not know what the heck they wanted to be fulfilled, now was doing something wrong, but they didn't even know it was even wrong because it was nothing that they should even be aware of, because nothing was said. So in a in a relationship just like mine, we both have to have the same definition or aspiration or conviction about anything, because if we're not, then we're in opposition already. So if you're saying loneliness within a relationship, uh a love relationship, if I say I'm lonely, but I'm with my wife, then why am I defining my loneliness where she's the one who's responsible for making me not lonely? If I say I'm lonely, I'm in a relationship, like you said in the context we were talking about, in a relationship with somebody, right? A married relationship, right? Or whatever, um, locked in. And I say I'm lonely, but I'm in this relationship. Who do you think I'm saying is causing me to be lonely? I mean yourself. But normally we don't say that. We mean the other person is the one that's causing me to feel the way I am.

SPEAKER_03 26:25

Yeah, but you're the one who's responsible because you're the only one who can like as I said in the beginning, perceive that you're lonely. I can I can be lonely and be with somebody, but I'm the one who's putting that term on myself.

SPEAKER_00 26:40

Right. But do you see that in relationships though, as a manifestation? What you just mentioned? Ownership.

SPEAKER_03 26:47

Oh, ownership. No, you never get it.

SPEAKER_00 26:49

You don't see that. You see blame. You see blame, you see expectations. You don't see ownership, you don't see us walking around. I know I'm lonely, but that's on me. Stop my girl. You know, I got taken by you don't see nobody doing no. We're looking for somebody to do something to make me feel better.

SPEAKER_03 27:06

Would you say in that context, it's the inability to be vulnerable with your partner enough to tell them, hey, I expect this, this, and that from you, or I would like for you to meet me halfway in this regard.

SPEAKER_01 27:22

Sadly, I think I think that's the I think that's the second problem, but I think most people haven't even not most, I can't say most people, but I think there are many people who haven't even gotten the chance to be that vulnerable with themselves. That most people haven't been able to even humble themselves to even admit that, like, oh, this is my responsibility. So even if it's like I do need to talk to my partner about the ways in which I feel lonely, I still haven't even been vulnerable enough with myself to be responsible for my own wounds in the ways that I can even because again, I think I think there are so many times when, like, yeah, um, maybe you need to communicate something with your partner that hasn't been communicated. But even if you do communicate that thing, how much of that loneliness is just stuff within yourself that you haven't worked out, stuff that you're putting on your partner, which is not your partner's responsibility, because it really isn't your partner's responsibility to bring you joy, to bring you happiness. You're just supposed to kind of grow together as people, and then hopefully you get along with enough sort of things that you're moving in the same direction, right? But you want to keep growing, right? And what makes the relationship work, right, is you're growing in the same direction. Because we can both be growing and we can both be healthy, but if we're growing in opposite directions, ultimately, like it doesn't matter how I mean, like, I can be open and vulnerable, but maybe the solution might not be but like maybe the solution might just be that I feel lonely because I'm in a relationship with someone who you're a good person and I'm a good person, but we're just we're just not moving in the same direction. And if we're truly gonna grow towards the light that that we're growing towards, we're gonna have to separate. So you have to be vulnerable, but with yourself first.

SPEAKER_03 29:06

But aside from that, I agree, but like, okay, so let's go down you know to the root. Like like Glenn would say, the belief systems. Uh like I said in the beginning, what what defenses have I erected around myself for that that stopped me from really reaching out to people, from really contacting people? What have I done? Because it's all you. Why have I created these defenses? Tommy, you could say, like you were saying before, you could be in a place where uh vulnerability is vilified in so many different types of ways, so you kept in. Now we're living in, I guess, uh, an intellectual society. So what defense systems have I created and how do I tear them down, and should I tear them down? The answer for me is obvious. Yeah, I'm I'm I'm knocking down them walls because I know what's how it feels to live behind these walls, and it ain't fun. And then I know the other side because I've experienced it, I've lived it, I'm doing it right now. Where I'm open, I'm vulnerable, all you can think of, and I don't me vulnerable in like a I'm soft type of way. I mean, I I'll say anything, and if you're gonna say something to me, then hey, I don't care because you can't control me. Only I control me. I control my mind, I control where I'm going, I control, you know, how I act, and I don't care.

SPEAKER_00 30:35

Well, and you know, that that's that's why, and I'm a I'm a shameless plug. That's why I wrote this book so that you guys can understand where we all are before we could be free from that incarcerated mind. That's why I'm saying the historical life that we are uh uh adapted to. Now, as adults, we're starting to switch from an adaptation to cultivation, right? We're creating now. So all that adaptation from your childhood to where you became uh aware as an adult thinker, which won't happen really until around 28, 29, 30, anyway. Now we are starting to define our future present perspective about ourselves and about the world around us, too. So there's a lot of trauma and historical drama and negativism from that subjective mind growing up. Now we're more objectively aware. So you got to change your whole belief system to a lot of things. Even the question you're asking today: what does loneliness mean to an adult is that the same as a child? But if we have been spawned in a very degraded environment as a child with a lot of hardship and pain and suffering, and you don't have any sense of intimacy that was coming your way, your definition of loneliness will be totally different than someone, another child who did not have that type of degradational environment. So he's gonna look at loneliness totally different than one who has been traumatized by that type of state of mind, too. So as an adult, now we get to create. So now your definition is experiential wisdom is gonna define your definition of loneliness or or anything. Because now, as an adult, you put an objective facts and truth to your understanding rather than feelings, which a child can only do. It's impulsive, it's reactive, it's subjective. So that's a huge trip. So that's that's from emancipation to from incarceration to emancipation. That's the journey I'm taking people on. Seeing what you already were because of your developmental process, and now you get to be freeing yourself from yourself as an adult thinker. That's emancipation. So what it means today, as Tom said, what I think of what that means today may be totally different than what I perceive it to be in 10 years from now, based on my journey into life. So does the definite that the word, does it really have a definitive definition? No, it does not. It's a program that we've gained at a certain point in our lives, and now we're creating our own new program for what we're defining too.

SPEAKER_03 33:21

The way I look at it and the way I give pushback is because we we we can do this forever and forever, forever and ever and ever and ever. We could talk about the you know the meanings of different words and put our own definitions on it. But what I say is if a word has a negative, you know, connotation to it, I am just not gonna use that word and use a different word that aligns better with what I'm trying to express for myself. Like that goofy word Tom said, that that nobody knows what it means, that actually meant something though. And it meant exactly what we're talking about. Loneliness means something different. I would say I'm alone and I'm chilling, I'm happy, I'm good with being alone because I don't see that as a negative. If I say hey, I'm lonely, and yeah, I could I could switch it up and be like, hey, Tom, I'm lonely and I'm happy like this, yeah, that's fine too. If you want to go like that individually, but when I'm speaking on a societal level, I'm speaking about the the whole framework of loneliness.

SPEAKER_01 34:25

And and this topic is much more than lonely. Two things to add to add on to that. So just just I got a response to what we're talking about in terms of like definitions, but also in terms of um kind of to combine like your thoughts of like what are the boundaries that keep us from being vulnerable and that keep us alone, but that also relates to how we're using words. So things like like there's the the word I said, I think it was isophilia or whatever, that has, I think, like one definition, but lonely itself does have multiple, like lonely has a neutral definition, just means being without company that has no positive or negative connotation, but it also does have sad from being alone. So even lonely within itself has no fixed positive or negative in the way something like isophilia does. That being said, the way that we give words definitions themselves can be what makes us more alone. So you can have two people, right? And let's say two people start off and they both associate being lonely with sadness, right? Let's just say two people. Person A says I'm lonely, and they mean that I'm sad. And then person B says, I'm lonely, and that means that I'm sad. Now let's say we teach person B to start seeing loneliness as a positive thing. We have stupid little monkey brains, right? I'm gonna just start there. I'm a strong believer that we have very simple monkey brains. So if you can train person B to start seeing loneliness as a positive thing, that will actually start to break down their walls and their boundaries. And I think that happened, like words are cups, right? And and and and we fill those words with definitions, and sometimes we freeze those definitions and we're like, this word means this one thing, and the dictionary means this one thing. And some words have one definition and some words have multiple. But ultimately, like, you know, like as opposed to like this like tennis ball in here, right? This tennis ball is fixed. No matter what, this tennis ball is gonna be a tennis ball. But words are like malleable, they they as much as they exist, they don't exist. It's like I can change, I can take a word, I can hold it captive, and by changing its definition and its perspective, that itself could be a key or the key in me being more vulnerable. So I think I just want to combine the idea of like where we're discussing semantics and definitions, but it's not about semantics and definitions, but it can be. I can take a word with the definition and by changing the definition for itself, like try. Like, for example, for some people the word try means to make an attempt to do it.

SPEAKER_03 37:17

I I think you're you're something went off on your side.

SPEAKER_01 37:21

It just it just can you hear me?

SPEAKER_03 37:23

Yeah, I hear you. You just sound a little aggravated.

SPEAKER_01 37:26

Can you guys is is how's your audio? Can you guys hear yourselves? That's good.

SPEAKER_04 37:30

Yeah, you good?

SPEAKER_01 37:33

Yeah, we're good.

SPEAKER_00 37:37

But you know, you're making you're making a um uh a great point in the sense of you know every time I do research and study and I go back in language such as Greek, right? Definitions within terminology that's been translated or or uh transfigurated from a dialect of let's say um you know ancient Greek language. A lot of the words like dynamite, you know, what we use now is the word dynamite in the Greek. It's it comes from a root word that's Greek, that we didn't that didn't associate that meaning then with how we use it now. So, like you said, words generationally throughout time have always been just so meaningless because it depends on the present day you live in, how you're going to define that specific word, because that's what we have as a construct of an order, right? We we so socialization, we have to be in some system so that we all can associate together.

SPEAKER_03 38:50

I don't agree with the definition of a word. I should just say, hey, let me change the definition so it fits what I like better.

SPEAKER_00 38:57

That's no, no, that doesn't make sense to say that.

SPEAKER_03 39:00

Exactly, but that's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_00 39:01

That's why I'm saying we could go word for word and keep going disclaiming. Nah, you you just miss what I just say, Mo. If you are living in a construct of a social construct, then that will determine the definition of that word at that time for those people who are under that umbrella structure of defining life through those terms. Like right now, certain words in our era means totally different than maybe 60 years ago. The same word will not be used in the same way. Like we're using it now as a social uh construct of norms, right? Because we are all having to, like group norms, when I do groups, we have to have a group norms. Why? Because everybody in there has to follow the same rules. But if I go to another country, like where you are now, you're in uh in Kenya, the same words that we would use here in the United States to define relationships will be totally differently expressed or experienced over there. And my wife is from Kenya, so I know what I'm talking about when it comes to the collaboration and having to come and mix two different cultures and having now to make words synchronized to where it fits our social norm, which is our family, which is me and her. Where if I was living on her coast, it would be meaning something totally different. If she was down with me in Trina, it would be meaning something totally different. But where we are here in America, we now have to synchronize it to fit what the no the natural you know terminology or meaning is right here, and how does it express itself? You understand what I'm saying? So it depends on where you are and what what what um foundation are you living by that describes that word for the people that is in that in realm, if that makes sense. So loneliness here, how we all think about loneliness, look at how complex it is already. I mean so content really, really, really matters to the tenth degree for a word to really have meaning for the people who are saying this is where we're coming from with this with this uh understanding of this word for our world, for our life right now. So it's just a broad, broad brush. You might try to stroke to get a one definition or some practical application for anything in society.

SPEAKER_03 41:29

Listen, I I'm gonna talk about global society. Look, look, look. I'm gonna skim through, and I didn't even I don't even want to do this. I'm gonna skim through it. Oh, I'm gonna skim through it. You're not getting the answer you want. Nah, it's not that. I can look up the definition of loneliness, and but I don't even want to play that game.

SPEAKER_00 41:49

That's what I'm saying, bro. This is my house. Listen.

SPEAKER_03 41:52

Let me ask you this. Hold on. Let me ask you this. Who the heck wrote the dictionary? Oh, man. Are we gonna get a game and I gotta put my my Koofy on and I gotta become a black Israelite like real fast and say the white devil this and that? I'm making a good point. You play the wrong point.

SPEAKER_00 42:12

I'm literally proving your point. I'm literally trying to prove you your point, what you just said. That's that's what I'm trying to do. Who wrote that? You want me to put my Koofy on? I'm just saying, when you when you use definitive terms like this is what it's listen, listen, context.

SPEAKER_03 42:33

You discussed context, right? That's exactly what I was getting to. Listen, you can be surrounded by all kinds of people and be completely lonely. So there comes the time. How open am I? Think of the negative, how vulnerable am I willing to be? Think of the negative. What defensives have I erected around myself to protect myself that's really keeping me from contacting people? All of those in the full totality of the whole thing that I read had a negative con connotation on it. All of it. We're talking about the topic at hand, and if the topic at hand, everything around it's negative, then chances are we're talking about a negative connotation. So the word itself can vary in definition, let's say. But if the context is negative, then it's negative. So if I'm isolated in my room, you know, lonely, crying, whatever, but the house is filled with people, and I say I'm lonely, I'm experiencing loneliness right now, then I don't want somebody to come up to me and be like, hey, but what do you mean by loneliness? Do you think that You're just saying the wrong word and you're not saying loneliness in a positive way, I would slap that person for even saying that to me. Like, what's wrong with you? What we we the whole thing is bad. I'm not gonna look at a little, you know. I if I if oh, I don't even want to get into what I was gonna say. But you just gotta look at the whole bigger picture and not say, hey, but the word, but 90% of it was talk about protecting myself, protecting myself from who? Building up walls from who? Surrounding myself around people that make me feel lonely and vacant. Like that's the context of the whole situation. It's not about you know me being like, hey, but you should be saying this and that, and like, come on, man.

SPEAKER_01 44:52

So like if let's say, let's say I'm like, like, let's say it's not a conversation that we're having right now, right? And let's say, like, pulling from my own experience, being alone, or just thinking like in the situation where you gave me, right, where a friend reaches out and it's like, hey, I'm lonely. I think in situations like that, like say I'm I'm the one listening to the lonely person, then all you can kind of do is like listen and like be there for that person, you know, and I think that's where vulnerability comes in, where sometimes we're lonely because we wanna we wanna I think it's the idea as humans where we wanna be we we want to be witnessed. Part of what being human and what being alive is is being seen by other people, being heard by other people. You know what I mean? Like, you know, one of the you know one of the worst forms of torture is just isolation, right? Just put someone in the box. You don't even have to touch them, you don't have to physically assault them, you just make them alone and wait but hold on, hold on, hold on a second, Tom.

SPEAKER_03 45:54

Tom, Tom. Yeah, what do you mean by isolation? How do you define isolation? Do you define it as something negative or do you define something positive? Are you being sick?

SPEAKER_02 46:08

Are you on being facetious right now, bro?

SPEAKER_03 46:12

I'm saying we can we can go about that in every time. Huh? No, I'm being facetious right now. I'm not asking you generally. Like that's your screen was like that's what I'm trying to say. I was saying earlier, I could say isolation in a negative context, and you'd be like, eh. But I can also be like isolation is where where my my biggest you know ideas come from. And then that makes it a positive. But if I'm saying surrounded by negative people, protecting, building walls, then I'm saying in that context, obviously we're talking about negative, so I don't need somebody or anybody to come up to me and say, hey, but by the way, what do you mean about negative? What? I just finished telling you something negative, so obviously it's negative. So we can keep going through it that game.

SPEAKER_00 47:06

So is are you are you are you okay with understanding that your perception is only yours?

SPEAKER_03 47:14

So so building walls is positive?

SPEAKER_00 47:17

Um you ain't answering my question.

SPEAKER_03 47:19

I don't because it's redundant. It is it's it's it's it's it's like I don't need to. How is that a redundant statement?

SPEAKER_00 47:27

Is your perception only yours?

SPEAKER_03 47:30

My bad, I misspoke. It's like you already know the answer. So why would I say it?

SPEAKER_00 47:37

Well, the reason why I asked him the question is to prove what you're saying. It's an autonomous thing. And if you're saying everybody should know this, everybody should feel this, everybody should be like this, because this is how I see it, and this is my understanding of it. I don't see the problem. How can we all just can't see this is supposed to just be negative? Well, you're talking about how you're perceiving the whole concept of your conversation, and you're saying everybody should be seeing it the same way I am. Like if I say I'm lonely, everybody's supposed to understand what that means. Everybody won't understand why you why you say you're lonely. So nobody else but you is claiming to have that conviction about what you're using that word to express. I see what you're saying.

SPEAKER_01 48:23

Even though I said all that other stuff, just throw it away. Someone is in a position where their isolation is killing them, right? Like if I'm isolated and my isolation is not benefiting me, what are the things that I'm doing? What are the boundaries that I've put up, which is causing that reality to do harm to me, regardless of the words that I used to describe.

SPEAKER_00 48:50

It's still autonomous. That's what you just said, what you just said is exactly what I'm just what I just said in a different way. It's still that person's perspective and and cultivating and and manifesting that specific term that he's using to do what he's doing to himself. You even just use the the idea that what other people make me feel like. Nobody makes nobody feel like nothing. You're gonna blame people for how you feel about a situation for yourself and you blame it on people, but we say things and don't even realize what we're saying. You just mentioned how they make me feel. Can somebody make you feel any way that you're feeling? Yeah, but how how do you define blame? Huh? How do you define blame? By putting by putting ownership on someone else when it's supposed to be yours. That's how I define blame. Now you have another.

SPEAKER_03 49:51

Is that objective? Huh? Is that objective or subjective?

SPEAKER_00 49:57

What is what which to the question is it objective or subject? It's very objective.

SPEAKER_03 50:04

Objective or oh so very objective. But yeah, because we have who made the word lane? Oxford Dictionary. Where's Oxford? Oxford, England. The white man made it.

SPEAKER_00 50:18

Uh, you gotta go further back than that. That's what I'm saying. We gotta keep going at that. You but but that's my point. So you're going to have to live in your now and how you are terminalized terminalizing terminology within the settings of what we are all cultivatingly, socially, constructively using to go and use that word for. I've in the street.

SPEAKER_01 50:42

If someone, if someone is is isolated and they've taken responsibility, like I'm I'm I I feel alone, and this is my fault, and it's no one else's fault. Uh, what are some examples? Like obviously, there's a million, there's a million, millions of examples. So it can be any examples. So after after someone has made the step and taking responsibility and accountability for their own loneliness, what are some examples of the walls they've probably put up that they now have to take down? So it's like, all right, I'm alone because of myself. What's the next step? What do I do now? Without a question. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What are some in your experience, right? Where where people where people have taken accountability for their own loneliness, what is usually the next step after I I understand, I understand why, I understand that I'm alone and it's my own fault. Now, in many contexts, there are many reasons.

unknown 51:43

Right.

SPEAKER_01 51:44

Do you find that there are um after the person has taken responsibility, do you find there's like common reasons why people would be in that situation?

SPEAKER_00 51:53

Oh, definitely, definitely. I mean, all three of us can speak to that because we've all been on a journey of life, right? And you're seeing the conclusions you have based on experiential wisdom from the things you did or did not do. So you're coming to that conclusion, right? For yourself. So if you're saying your loneliness now, you assess yourself, your introspective, and you're realizing the things that you have done, which cause everyone that you used to know to vacate because of your personality behaviors, and you're recognizing that, you know what, these are the things, the reason why I'm in this situation where I'm at right now. So I'm I'm taking responsibility, I'm humbling myself to accept the fact that the things I have done put me in this situation to where I don't have people that I would say I used to have around because of my dealings. Right? So it's a it's a personal uh indictment. So if you're saying the other side of that is, okay, now I know what I have done to create this, then at least I know I have an antidotal perspective to do the opposite. And but that's gotta that's gotta be experienced to find out if that's gonna be better.

SPEAKER_01 52:59

And in your experience, Glenn, um, do you find that most people when you deal with loneliness, do you find that um when most people confront um that you know like when they get to the point where they're like, all right, I'm lonely and and I have the power to change this? Do you find that most people are lonely because that they become someone or they are someone that pushes others away and that isolates them? Or do you find that they themselves are the you find that they are a person that repels people or that they tend to be actually surrounded by people and taking people for granted granted and they don't have the courage to reach out? Or do you think that there's no like common like it's like 50-50? Like, do you think in in your experience in modern times, does it depend on the age? Is there a common problem that you see rising a lot? Like, like what are the trends that you're kind of seeing in in the present day, like America with the people that you're dealing with?

SPEAKER_00 54:01

Yeah, I would say everybody who comes to me is programmed already and they don't know it. We all are programmed to certain behavioral norms and patterns every day. You may not even realize that you are until we bring this to a conversation, but we're all programmed to a certain be to a certain level. So if you're saying uh to this point as far as is this person recognizing now that they're repellent, they're not a magnet, they know the history of that association with that person or people that they were associated with and the things that they had done to create the environment to where they became toxic and the people didn't want to be around them anymore. There's there's uh objective facts that that person could assess. It's not his personality, it's his manifestation of his behavior. So sometimes people, and that's why in the book I said, you know, don't let your practice be your personality because it's two different things. We may behave in ways that we didn't premeditatedly think that it was going to have dire consequences, but is that our personality, the behavior, or is it, you know, something different than who I truly am?

SPEAKER_01 55:13

In your experience, when you when you work with people, do you find that most people are lonely because they've they've like they're not taking advantage of the people of they're not making the effort to reach out, or do you find that most people are lonely because they are um the kind of like they've burnt too many bridges? Like typically when you find people who are lonely, like do you find a a common a common answer, or is it so individual that you're like everyone's journey is so individual, I couldn't even tell you that it's most likely to be this. Or could you say like usually the it's a it's a there's there's like a most likely solution, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 55:56

Yeah, yeah. No, there's multifaceted reasons for everybody's loneliness perspective if you want to use that word, whether you want to use it positive or negative. It doesn't even matter. Like we say, words mean nothing but to the individual who's gonna use it. So and and yeah, more you can shake your head all you want, but your words and my words will never mean the same thing all the time. Never. Yeah, and is it wrong? No, it's not wrong.

SPEAKER_03 56:23

Remember that next time I call somebody a cunt, I'm be like, no, but it means something else for me.

SPEAKER_00 56:29

Yeah, and the consequences we gotta deal with. So the reality is whatever you're gonna believe and use that belief to manifest, you will have to deal with the consequences, whether positive or negative. And I guarantee you it'll cause you to make some changes when you find out the way you're using it and the manifestation that you presented, how it reciprocated it was from another person or not. It gives you a whole new way of living. Like your question. If that person that you you're saying, if they have come to me and they said I'm lonely, it's so many different reasons I find out why that person is using that terminology to explain.

SPEAKER_01 57:07

Do you find that there's the most common manifestation of loneliness, like in your experience? Like, what is the most common way that people speak their loneliness into existence?

SPEAKER_00 57:18

Yeah, that there is no common. There can't be any common because your life is autonomous, Mo's life is autonomous, mine is too. And we can all have experiences that put us in a low lull within our uh our um our expectations and the lack of fulfillment, that puts you into a lull of emotional despair, right? Because you wanted something, you didn't get it. Just like a child, what does the child do when they don't get what they want? What do they do? They act out, right? They'll they'll they'll they'll cry out because they're not getting what they want. Remember when you were a child? When mother didn't give you something, did you have a tantrum? Yes, you did. What do you think a grown person is gonna have if he's has a program of having tantrums? He's gonna act like a child when he has doesn't get what he wants. He's 35 years old, 40 years old, his girl or somebody didn't give him what he wants. What do you see that individual do because it's a habit of a program? He will act out and he will not care about the consequences because he's gonna get what he wants.

SPEAKER_01 58:25

What's the difference between a child who is there any reason like you have a child who doesn't get what they want and they throw a tantrum, right? And they they are outward. Then you have a child who might not get what they want and they withdraw. Yeah. And they isolate. Yeah. They become, you know what I mean? Like, what is the difference between those two mindsets? And and why would why would a child throw a tantrum versus why would they withdraw? And why wouldn't an adult throw a tantrum and like ah versus like withdraw and guild?

SPEAKER_00 58:54

Yeah, and that that's that that could again, it's it's autonomous to that child because we don't know that child is a single child, never had other siblings or nothing, and he's an introvert because of the lifestyle he grew up in, and his loneliness is so empowering to defeat him because he hasn't had no outlet. But if you're in a in a family like mine was, which everybody you you were just like one. You didn't even exist because there's so many, nobody really gives a damn, in a sense, when you have a tantrum or whatever, right? So it's a it's it's different for everybody. No one can there can't be a general answer for any of these questions we're asking. Even if we want to use a word loneliness and we want to synchronize it to mean what we somebody here wants it to mean, then fine, I can go along with that because it's feasible. It's it's and I'm not saying more. Anything you're saying.

SPEAKER_03 59:45

You're saying don't use any words no more that you know possibly could be shifted into anything other than what it is. So I there's no such thing as objectivity. I'm just gonna say words like sad, but sad could be dependent on the person. Because sadness could mean happiness.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:06

Well, and and it it's and that's why I'm saying words really, if we go all the way back in time, words is only meaning what we want it to mean.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:15

And and how is that and how is that productive for a conversation to me coming up to you and saying, hey, I'm sad, but what do you mean by sad? It's like it's unnecessary for us to have that type of dialogue when we're discussing, you know, issues that could be detrimental to society or at least be something bad, but then I don't need you to say, hey, but what do you mean by bad? Because the thing is, we could go on forever. And I looked up the definition: loneliness, sadness because one has no friends or company. That's the example. Okay, you can say the same way nigga might be in the dictionary and meet something completely different. We could go down that route, but it's unnecessary. We're talking about mental health, we're talking about health and people, we're talking about diving in. We just had a good 15-minute conversation talking about the negative context of loneliness, and it took us all that time just to get there. What we know if we're talking psychology, it's loneliness. Like you said, there it's autonomous to that person. I know exactly what you mean because when you study individuals psychologically speaking, there is no explanation. It's a person-to-person basis. You can have one person extroverted, one person introverted. There's no explanation on why. They can have all the nurture there, they can have the same nature, and there's still gonna be no explanation behind that type of stuff.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:42

Well, that that and that's not true. It's a there's an explanation to that autonomous person because when I somebody comes to me and they say, I'm sad. Now it's my I have to do a diagnostical evaluation to find out exactly what is in their world that they have prescribed that word to, and most of the time it's not that they're sad. It's like somebody say, I feel like. Is that a feeling or a thought? When most people say I feel like, is it a thought they're actually gonna express or feeling? It's a thought. So I always stop people and say, uh, do you you know that that's not a feeling? That's a thought. And then well, yeah, that's what I meant. So we we we we have habits of behavioral in our con and how we speak, how we believe it is so programmed that unless you dissect those programs, you really wouldn't get to that person's true um clarity of really what they want to express. Because they're only speaking of how they've been programmed to speak. So when you hear people say, I feel like I feel like today is gonna be a great day, is that a feeling or a statement?

SPEAKER_03 1:02:57

It's a statement. And they said a feeling attached to it, so I guess it's a thought, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:05

So if I say I feel glad today, is that a feeling of gladness or is it a thought?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:17

Well, they they both analyze the word. I can think I can think I feel glad today and not feel glad today. And I can feel glad today and not even think that I feel glad today.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:26

So you all you want the manifestation is expressing a conviction. So your conviction is going to be tied to a manifestation one way or the other, whether positive or but you can you can also be a divided person, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:40

Like I can say, I can feel sad and say I feel happy, right? Yeah, some people some people are not in that one.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:48

Yeah, we do every day in the US. Hey, how how are you? Good,$3.99. Like, that's the concept of the situation. Well, you know, that person says they're good, they're just saying it because they just rolling with the punches, they just doing what they're supposed to do. So social norms.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:05

So, do you see that there's a program that we have to accept and deal with, which most people don't even want to accept that that concept, that they're literally walk living on a program of beliefs until that is changed, you will see the same manifestations all the time. It doesn't mean that person really understands it.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:24

They're just putting I think this kind of looks nicely into like loneliness or I think one of the one of the boundaries and one of the things about loneliness is people aren't even conscious of themselves enough to understand the root of their loneliness. I like that. So we might want to say I'm lonely because of the walls and the boundaries I have.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:48

You might actually not even be conscious, and that you might actually be like so unconscious that those walls and boundaries don't actually exist and you're making them up. Right? So I think that's kind of one thing where some people are so detached from the reality of things. Yeah, on autopilot, right? Like I'm good when I'm not, or even I'm I'm so used to being sad that I think I'm sad and I'm not even sad. And you haven't even opened your eyes to the reality of the situation. And you're absolutely right.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:16

Yeah, and and you know, that's why we, you know, in the clinical realm, we would say the subconscious doesn't create anything, it just repeats what's already been created. And that's what people are dysfunctionally functioning on. It's a hamster wheel syndrome of belief systems, and until you step off that hamster wheel, that will not change your manifestation. So you're absolutely right. You you're saying words, but they don't really mean they're sad with that word. They're sad in the subconscious realm of discontent for a whole lot of things that it culminates to be sad. From that person's clarity of what sad means. Like more, if you say you want to be negative, then yeah, all that person's perceptional view of their life is. Is a sad commentary for them. They're not happy. It's not a consistent habit to even be joyful.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:07

I'm gonna say something, but that depends. I don't know if you had to go or your client didn't show up.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:13

Yeah, yeah, no, no, I got a couple of minutes. I know.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:18

Just making sure you didn't lose track of time. Yeah, yeah, I'm looking at mine. I got twelve. Okay, alright. Now um That's why that's why I text them.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:26

I I I get what you're saying, but a wise man by the by the name of uh Glenroy Bristol once told me that words mean things. And if you're telling yourself negative words, you will start to act it out in your emotions or in your actions. So you can change the root cause of certain words, but at the end of the day, I feel like if I'm sad, I'm sad, I'm lonely, I'm lonely. I will not use those words to define what I am or how I feel. I will use other words that actually have some type of weight that will make me push forward. If I say certain words, that's the power of manifestation. The power that you go towards it, it goes towards you. That's a prayer. Every time I say, I hope you know things go well, that's a prayer. I'm saying it. I'm saying it to the big man upstairs, and I'm saying it to myself. And it will result in my actions, like the subconscious. If I subconscious or if I consciously say these positive words, then subconsciously I will start to act out positivity just because.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:31

And that's the shift of the program. You're the one who said the same way somebody could be sad all the time on that hamster wheel is the same way somebody could be happy all the time on that same exact hamster wheel. So it depends who's you who's on the wheel and which direction are you going. You're going nowhere. But I'd rather be going nowhere happily.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:52

I'm glad you just said that, going nowhere, because anybody who is on a hamster wheel is exactly that, going nowhere fast. I'm not on a hamster wheel. I'm consistently headed in a direction. So not everybody's on a hamster wheel. That's stuck. Matter of fact, we say that's consistently a stupid person. Because it's not ignorance when you're doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results. That's why we say it's a hamster wheel. You know? But when you get an epiphany and you know you did something wrong, you don't step off of that behavior, then you literally say you want to experience that same habitual negative experience over and over again. And we see that's what people do in relationships all the time. Why are they constantly fighting and fussing and feuding with each other, but they say they love each other? And they see the manifestation of their discontent about each other is not manifesting what their definition of love is. So why they keep doing it? Isn't that like a program of somebody who have no clue that they can change until they find that they can?

unknown 1:08:57

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:58

It's a program. All in this definitely.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:02

Let me zoom out for a second. We're zooming out. Now taking it out the household and talking about just the objectivity, the physical presence of just actually being alone, not talking to people lonely. Um how does that fit into a societal type of way? Because I do think there's an epidemic, and I won't call it a pandemic because it's not everywhere, but an epidemic of loneliness, especially in countries like the United States, Canada, etc., etc., where there's not really the sense of community the way you know I would see here in Kenya, for example, where everybody kind of talks to everybody, love, it's love everywhere you go. I could take a knife and go like this, and then look at the knife and just gonna say love on it. It it that's how it is over here. But what's affected people psychologically speaking is the manifestation of the thought of that I'm lonely, I'm lonely, I'm lonely. Yeah, but what are you actually tangibly and physically and objectively doing to remove yourself from that vibe? I never experienced that type of loneliness. I've only experienced internal loneliness where I have people around me, but I'm not lonely. But then there's other people who have nobody around them and they feel lonely, and rightly so, because they have nobody around them, but they won't reach out because they built up too many walls because my grandma did me 30, my grandfather did me 30, my uncle did me 30, uh uh blah blah blah, so on, so on, and so on. So, how what what do those people need to break out of that wall? I'm trying, I'm trying my hardest, and I was speaking further. I'm trying my hardest to break out of that shell, and I just can't. What do you think?

SPEAKER_00 1:10:42

They need therapy. You know I'm gonna say that because that that's an opportunity to for somebody who, you know, is gonna be able to help that person um to look deeper within themselves for the resolution that they really are. You know, you're the antidote as well as the problem. All of us are. We're all dysfunctionally functioning because of what we have established as a belief system or manifestation of that system. So no one can come and rescue another person, but we can guide a person to see themselves and then have them make the decisions to want to change because they see they want something different because of what they experience, they don't like. So that that's what I would say for anyone, anywhere I go, I'm always trying to bring people to an observation of themselves, because when they take a good introspection, they have to decide because of what they uh had experienced. I don't want to feel like that anymore. And in order for me not to feel like that anymore, I cannot do what I saw I did in order for me to experience that feeling. Well, even if it's in a relationship, like say you, you know, you and your wife, and you realize like one time you said something and it didn't go off well, and she had an attitude about it, and then you didn't get none that night, she was all pissed off, and you like, hmm, I can't be messing around like that because I know I need my stuff every day. So you'll change, right? You'll change your belief about that certain way that you was presenting to her because you saw the manifestation. So who is this responsible for the change?

SPEAKER_04 1:12:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:23

It would be you, right? So we are our own worst enemy, but we should cultivate ourselves as our as our best friend. So if I'm gonna help anybody, I have to bring them to that self-awareness that they are being the most destructive person to themselves, but they need to be the most productive person for themselves. So it's really introspectively seeing that uh the person from within that is causing that which we say we don't like, which is being manifested.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:49

And I think in regards to this idea of like this this loneliness epidemic in America, it gets thrown along a lot. I think if I was gonna like simplify it, right? I think people you need you need faith and to face your fears. Because I think a lot of people are just simply I think at the root of this epidemic is like a fear of love and an unwillingness to face that fear, to have uh a faith to face that fear. Because if you don't have faith, whatever you want to call it, faith or hope, confidence, speaking of words confidence, it it and I think it comes from Latin. The con means with and the fidence means faith. All confidence means is with faith. So if you don't have uh faith, if you don't have a vision of what you want, first of all, how are you gonna move towards that faith? So first, people need to need to know what they're looking for. Because if you don't know what you're looking for, how are you gonna find it better?

SPEAKER_06 1:13:40

You also have to be uh brave enough to risk.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:45

I think uh maybe I don't know if some people think they have more to lose than they do, because it's like if you don't have like the lose that they go for, otherwise, like what is this like uh I'll call it like a false god that you're holding on to. I think a lot of people are lonely because they're they're holding on to something that maybe they think is of worth or that they identify that uh is not fulfilling them, you know what I mean? It's like you're you're holding on to like hot holes, and it's just like you have to let whatever you're some people are just holding on to things that they have to let go of, yeah, that they can re reach and strive towards something that they need to heal. And yeah, some people simply they don't uh they don't have the uh voice of someone to reach out to, and some people do have those people to reach out to and they're simply not listening. There's only so much that you can do for people.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:30

Yeah, yeah. I mean, listen, exactly what you just said. But a person is so indoctrinated in their developmental lifestyle to a certain point. Now they're in their adulthood, but they didn't change any of those programming in that developmental phase of loneliness or negativism in their life because it was just predominantly negative in their worldview or how they perceived everything. And that person don't start changing any of those belief systems. They will consistently metastasize that same belief system to become even more destructive to themselves or anybody else who comes into their life until they have an epiphany that I need to really get rid of this behavior. But like you said, they have to sometimes be fostered into seeing it because they can't see it. Most people whose program don't know that they're on that hamster wheel. To them, it's right. Do you know everything that you say you believe is right? Until somebody has to check in and say, uh, look at it this way. And then you're like, oh, oh yeah, yeah. But when you said it, it was right. Nobody ever says anything thinking they're wrong with a conviction.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:42

I think one of the one of the keys one of the keys, one of the keys that uh Tom said was it was bravery, or I think maybe even another word to say just willingness to be able to try and attempt to do something because a lot of people want it, but they have an incoherence with their thoughts and then their actions. Like I want to reach out to somebody. I've thought about that before, like, damn, like I want to reach out, but yeah, I just don't, and I don't I I don't know if brave is the right word to use, but like I I just can't do it. Why can't I do it? What do I do now? Who do I talk to aside from a therapist? I seen a therapist, my therapist sucks. Like that's the story, as as you know, Glenn. Like, a lot of people just you know rolling with the punches. A lot of people just swimming with the ocean and the you know, the ocean's carrying them, not the other way around.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:38

But most of them you sacrifice. Yeah. I think that if you if you need, if you're if you're like, what do I you know what I mean? I know it and I'm misaligned, there's something in your life that you're not willing to sacrifice. Because our spirits may be you may come from an infinite spirit, but ultimately life is finite, and we only have room for so much. And people aren't willing to make room for what it is they need to heal, and they're not willing to let go, not willing to sacrifice.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:07

So maybe you can have all the bravery in the world and even have that want, but if you're not willing to let go of what is you, you can't make reason for what we'll heal. You have and and you know, I have a statement on the outside of my door that says it's not change that is painful, but rather our resistance to change, and it's a fact. We don't like change. And even because we know it takes work, it will take consistency, it will call for discipline. Change calls for discipline, and we are humanity is the most undisciplined species on the planet because we have cognitive ability to create. So we're constantly not liking, you know, what we like, we like. What we don't like, we don't like. Even if what we don't like is beneficial for us, now you can have like right now, you you think about um for instance, if I was to diagnose one of you and gave you the terminology bipolar and say you bipolar. And matter of fact, in order to fix that, here's some pills. You see people running around taking medication for terminologies that was created and gave to them as a problem. But yet the life that they really was living has nothing to do with that term. It has to deal with reality that they did not know how to handle in many ways. So there's reality to their life condition, and they didn't need a pill to fix that. Maybe if they needed to come down to suppress their emotions to get them on a uh a balance and then deal with life on life terms. But I'd rather have that person initiate the condition of his cultured mind based on the situation that caused his behavior to then deal with that rather than label him, name it, blame it, and tame it with psychotropic medication. That's not a, I'm not holistically looking at that person's dilemma. He has a life that's full with complexities from his perspective, and I need to tap into that, get to know his world of why he's so abusive to himself, rather than put him in in a uh just because you're having these manifestations, oh, you're this, and matter of fact, take these pills for the rest of your life. What am I fixing? I'm treating, I'm not fixing. So that's why I tell people, I deal with cause, I don't deal with causes. I deal with, you know, I deal with I don't deal with symptoms rather. I deal with causes. Because underneath that symptom, there's cause, there's a belief. So we deal with manifestations all the time in our medical condition uh field, right? You do you do um you you in your um your what you call your your title out there on the road in the ambulance system? As a what do you normally used to do in Mo when you was out there with the ambulance? EMT, right? When you go out there and you're dealing with with the reality of trauma in people's lives and accidents and everything, what are you dealing with? The internal or or the manif or what you're dealing with on the outside of that person? Are you dealing with the person or are you dealing with really the manifestation of what you gotta deal with to save that person's life or anything?

SPEAKER_03 1:20:19

I mean, I could give pushback on this one because there's signs and there's symptoms. You know, signs something you can visually see, and a symptom something you gotta diagnose, you gotta ask questions, you gotta, you know, inquire about a little bit. So you're dealing with signs.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:34

Yeah, exactly what you say. You gotta inquire, you gotta investigate, you gotta go deep because the the symptoms may have a whole lot of reasons why that symptom is showing up. It just can't be a disease. So if we're labeling people with disease, but we don't know the cultivation of those symptoms based on the life they had to live, and now they're manifesting a whole lot of anxiety, right? But the anxiety is not because of any situation. It could be because uh nutritionally they have no magnesium in their system. And we don't check that first. We just look at the manifestation of the anxiety and and panic attacks, and now we want to just suppress it with psychotropic medication. Did we help that person deal with the reality of what's constantly in his program? No.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:27

Well, that's the difference, and that's the difference, and I think me and you have spoken it before the difference between uh Western and Eastern medicine. Eastern is more individualized because you know it came in large part from focusing on the individual person when he went to go see the village doctor. Yeah, and then in West society, the the numbers became so you know so much that that you had to find a broad umbrella way of looking at things. So then people essentially became numbers rather than actual human beings. You have to look at the signs and symptoms.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:04

That's why that's part of why people are so lonely here as well. Yeah, that's what everything is. You try to solve everything. You want to think like I act like a scalpel, right? And you want to give everyone like their individual time and attention. Or everyone should be taught there should be a culture that at least teaches people to do that, and at least, you know, um what's the word? Uh yeah, just a system in which things aren't so broad and so general, generalized, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:22:35

Well, you know, there's a new terminology for intervention now in the medical industry. It's called functional medicine rather than conventional medicine. Yeah, functional medicine is dealing with the whole person, like you said, the holistic evaluation of a person on the inside to see why these symptoms are being on the outside. It's like a man, they use the uh the illustration of a tree where you see a yellow leaf on a tree, you just don't, you know, pull the leaves off and stuff. No, it's something with the root because there's a nutritional deficiency that's causing that that the tree is sending out alarms, really, about something that we can't see. And it's the same thing with humanity. We have a lot of alarms in people's behavior emotionally and expressively, but there are much more internal, you know, uh foundation of dysfunction that is creating those manifestations. And it's not only psychic psychologically, it could be medically at the same time. So most of everybody who comes to me, I ask them all the time, have you done a full physical before coming? Because we want to eliminate the medical possibilities of some deficiency that they may never even know they have. Like folks may have thyroidism, right? And they're all over the place in their mood and everything, and they could be misdiagnosed with bipolar and give, you know, on be given seroquil and 300 milligrams of all kinds of things, clonopins, and next thing you know, they're on three or four or five different psychotropic medications, but nobody really took care of their medical condition that was causing the manifestational symptoms. So there's a lot of medical deficiencies that causes psychological symptoms just the same. So we don't even talk like that.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:18

So, yes, that makes a lot of sense and 100% true. But when it comes to biology, I think that's a little bit different, especially when it comes to neurochemistry that may have came from, let's say, generations or even a generation of just some trauma. Because they did, yeah, you know, the study's been done. And I don't even, you know, I'm not even a big advocate of all these studies because I think they they do it to fit their narrative. But we can know even on a com we can know even on a common sense level that of course we're adopting some trauma from people we never met, people we don't even know, great-great-grandfather parents, great-great, whatever. So when I biologically or or or mentally feel some type of way, sometimes it's not my own doing. And it's not a hundred percent my fault. Can I do things to make it better? Yes, but I don't think there's a a a blanket like you say that you could just put over and be like, hey, all you gotta do is drink some more water and you'll be all right. Yeah, rub some Vicks on me.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:30

Yeah, and matter of fact, remember when they used they used to say, and I'm I'm gonna jump off of here after that. Uh they used to say, you know, it's genetics, it's genetics, it's genetics, right? That's been in for generations. That's all we've been here, it's genetics. That's why things are happening. Now they have a new terminology, which is it's epigenetics. Look it up, EPI genetics. It's a different definition, right? That's why I say definitions and words, really, we have to be very, very scrutinizingly when it does not, as we say, deal with the whole person in the individual mindset of that person's conviction and why they are thinking, believing, and manifesting what they can when we all can say is similar to us because we all can fall into those same categories at times. But is it is it for the same reason? Is a person depressed because for the same reason? So we're giving everybody who's depressed um uh cloud um um what what well butrin or whatever the heck it is. Well, I have a client who's depressed and another one who's depressed, and this one is depressed because their dog died. This one is depressed because he just don't like himself. You know, I mean, so but they all are on the same medication for three totally different reasons why they are manifesting a symptom. So that's dysfunctional to me. That's why I like functional medicine. Each individual has to be assessed autonomously to find out what is in that individual belief system that is allowing them to have these manifestations. And is there any unseen medical issues that may even have a part to play in that? So, in my world, that's functional medicine. Conventional medicine will say name it, blame it, and tame it with medication. That's what we have as a construct in our society, and it's proliferated all over the world now. So uh the pharmaceutical company is having a wonderful time at all of our diseases, which is not diseases, right? Because diseases you find in a cadaver when you open up a dead person. But what we're dealing with is what we are naming people. We're this it's not discovered, it's created. The book used to be that big, DSM IV, DSM III, now DSM 5 is like bigger than the Bible. So, and and I remember a while back when homosexuality used to be called a disease, and it was in a definition in the DSM IV, and the world started hollering, they went back and changed that. You won't find that in there anymore. So What is that saying? I rest my case. Oh, there it is.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:08

That's starting to think about it.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:10

I'm let you close it. I hope we met you halfway with something. And um, you notice not all the time when we come halfway, we're gonna see the same thing. But at least we ain't saying a whole lot. So a lot of folks can uh probably grasp from all these different perspectives, it's very autonomous in how we think. But it's culturally dysfunctional when we come together to try to come and make it into a seamless uh collaboration. So um, but like us, we're in a good space to bring it to where we end. You know what I mean? Yes, and meet you happy on that level. So hopefully they will too.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:40

All right, sir. Good talk soon.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:43

Nice seeing you again, Glenn.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:45

Yeah, man. Definitely hit me up anytime you're around, bro. Appreciate talking with you too. Let me know where your next show is because I never saw you perform. Yeah, it's been a while.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:54

I've been doing more course theater improv, but I I'll I'll I'll keep you in the loop.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:58

Definitely. And uh go ahead and find my book, man, because you're gonna find it to be very interesting. I could not say enough on it today, but there's another volume coming out as well, which I would that's a two-volume. So this is mentally emancipated, the insanity of humanity, and mentally um mentally, and mentally incarcerated, the insanity of humanity. That's the first book. And the second one is mentally emancipated, free yourself from yourself, problem solution. So hopefully you'll get it, and everybody out there, go get it. It's gonna speak volume to a lot of the things we were saying here and more that I couldn't express because it wasn't my show to say so. So thank you for letting me plug it in too. And it's going well. So you got your book yet? You better tell me you got your book already, man.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:49

I got your book before it was before I released the live world. Huh? I I showed you I had it. I'm the one to I I had it before you even released it to the public. What you talking about? All right, we'll leave it at that. Alright, we'll talk soon.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:06

All right, man. Peace. Y'all be right.