EP6 基督徒如何看待佛教

生活在华人社会，佛教的影响力是不言而喻的。今天我们邀请庄祖鲲牧师来谈基督徒如何看待佛教。庄牧师出生在台湾，台大化工系毕业后在美国西北大学获得化工博士。庄牧师先在台湾工业技术研究院担任高级主管，1990年蒙召赴美攻读神学，1995年获美国芝加哥三一神学院宣教学哲学博士学位。

Q1 是什么让一个化工博士，一个牧师，对研究佛教如此有兴趣？

Q2 很多华人自称佛教徒，但研究显示真正的佛教徒其实很少，大多数是佛道混合的民间信仰。您觉得，华人一般所理解的「佛教」，和真正的佛教教义之间，落差有多大？

Q3 佛教喇嘛说"佛教是无神论"，但民间又满是菩萨、观音。请问在基督教的眼光里，佛陀、菩薩和基督教所说的"神"，本质上有哪些根本的不同？

Q4 佛教有"缘起性空"、"四圣谛"、"六道轮回"等核心观念。在您看来，哪一个观念对华人的世界观影响最深、也最值得基督徒认真了解？

Q5 佛教也有类似的救恩观（我姑且用这个词），禅宗靠开悟，淨土宗靠念阿弥陀佛；基督教则讲"因信称义"、完全靠恩典。这两种救恩观，您认为最核心的分歧在哪里？

Q6 现在很多基督徒对禅修、冥想很感兴趣，甚至有人在教会里推行"基督教禅修"。您对这种融合持什么看法？两种灵修的本质有何不同？

Q7 佛教对经典的态度非常开放——禅宗甚至说"尽是魔说"——而基督教坚持圣经无误。这两种对经典的态度，对信徒的生命塑造会有什么不同的影响？

微读书城：

庄祖鲲：《说禅论道：基督教与儒释道之对话》

龚天民：《真理自明——基督教与佛教之对比》

非微读书城：

Keith Yandell & Harold Netland, Buddhism: A Christian Exploration and Appraisal（IVP Academic, 2009）.

吴言生、赖品超、王晓朝主编《佛教与基督教对话》（中华书局，2005）。

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Chum can leave Tom Chichetta. And Han J to Chinam look her com stranger fans, so ching retontium. Long it's a way to cutting Jin Womala Tan Hot is like Kanta forja. Now some hotel shot chili mean.

SPEAKER_01 2:18

What tongue to Mamma Tong to Senjin are suit out the sanguine sanguine tongsin that suit out. Tajana ten shisa chicken. Hu Tong Yo was on Gangan Chin Chi to ja Tanganji Ju to Tanchi ni na chil the sir time how shall she go so we shall see gossip. Yo how suit ni chill can we jin can. What may you heart put out your new small hot fast jungle way she tinged in. Jugo Chinai ho, Tat Chong Lai Mail Chingo Chi Tingo Ipan Sum Fast Jang Da. A ten does it Wakan deep for jar the suitage water. Let us uh jangda the haj of the ship, she doubt and child the siam money the twin. Sijasinka go down means what's the deak to foja laut. So when the kite tongue tangia, so tong si at baiting deak. Tapus for judgment, tas equant out. So in uh Tatjo Ranjang, Woj Run da Umla run that ran, never tissues for jelly out here, tangsua. Town the wound year putt or without the tie will run the high rung wound dummy who taught the kais de forja iso. Now like do the tung welken, jungle fim pineo tender. Take a forja to beep kind of whati. Now handle ransen guan, um jungle ransen guan, um the sanguine, those outdo it and for gel the yin z uh so it just waits more than for jell kissing. Lao you eat tummy fast that the eagle can uh lemon egg jussal, she the job may go fang wet. Now they may go t be the ticket fang, um hai with three time, not the thing that fang that. Sig uh forja the full chaz. Now gung that teta goji and ting. Let that to be go to hang your cheese chit ting down nigga. So you get changed, lang this year, who to the foja to lung out yet, summer to me a pie to eat line ya, or tummy changin foja, not time is a canzo, top of the forja to cheese to the hoodie hood to the meansin man sin the foja to a time to disorder. Say the different vota tonguel and tungha jowlio baka ming jia baka, then the say in s dosu the len forja to cousin wouldn't have to by guanti yeah, naho to she neg, not cheese quanti ye. Can you for j make guancy not dance time to sense the forja to now to by negative bay. So it's uh hump poopin'. Now, for j too, near so chan dance or fool to law from the sins about yen yang tin. Then it's lao dia for jow to media do yeah. So in the lens, the yuanchi and meata, mei to me whether but the shen sink the length guan. Let chujas siend. Ah is some boss, su yeah, your song, your mole. Now, woman too, your song you let us. So yeah, okay. Now say Luku on is for Jato. Cha Shangxi Sigga Shen Sin the Lens Gwen Songsen does this it has the Push Fojato. The forja pull and jang sin. The B Shi Shangxi Shenguay, just the Sudan to Tendisama Children see a treat to send you a treaty and did. Foja meal treated. Fo justice young to our four jarman, you're the meow mean coach poor man. San uh pufen, hey by pufen, mate so pufen tose eight young trade. Me treated sand meal treated uh. Chen Sing San it is eager yonder. Then the sun pensa we be sand. That voja thin again in idea. I don't do a s and curl. That's a say deepen the tender for your handle deepen the chance, the hando for ya to be male got chin to the e fanda. Some yan kongin conga, yen chia, yes do some tia, then that's the dowdy. That was a chance, what is what the chances are to the out here, that cheese just eager pita buy young tea fan. Let them mingle epanjongia, the chance woman ping pus numaiander. Two widow so umgo unwaletia, psa su changes yungwander, um tonguin, ping male jung. The east lay ho since the young ten young girl, uh tree day don't see. Now that's the in two in the um canin, so ticket don't see. Say Dollatongoi Hill Yo Dope and Zah, Hold Will Sing Don't go Umwa Tattually said. So it taught no quite useful. Lugo Dolly me to ya ding eat the send the gang, just has a tongue dot. Uso puts it also put send the gang in idea, for just woozen rand. Mayo didn't say four meal changed out to meal chong sen. Mayo egg send Uso puts it also putn. Sway the four, for just war. Wait, don't go to Legion Did Four Nights, the lent. Whitmuta, nigga Buso, Pian Pang, the di Halapent, Moot Hot, Joe E Delang to the mood, Bien Hosyam. Not sweet to sweet Bienda. Ah Tia for the lent piander, so force then a pussy. Sensisama, soy two, food, or bien, dos, teas, nigga bienda, nigga bianskin say you under, tia in's four, and oysome pent, so has then say then then kung for. Ah that puts a lunch. I didn't pent on the buy ya. Then kung for now four to some tongue, teas for make out in two. Woman by four can puss out the young tongue. Teas the indu and four tickets, to the Buddha. Buddha tickets can digi negative the indu and body. Say third out body, third out the land, jet Buddha. Say Kaiuda called the Judah, Juieta, Judah Jeta, there's a photo. Not Pusa. Pusa tickets into Bodhi Satava. Bodhi Jesus Pudi Satava Shinchoza Shita say Jansen Bodhi Satava Bowsa Pusa. So Pusa S that Shincho Then the Shincho that hide the loose made out we don't. So hide that sheshit on the chetu foot hai wula. So young put on sida. Four toss tongue jet. Hide that do ton. So any bad pussy bapusa. It's a bad four to be push. Pusa woman cheese ton foot to go in woman's tongue pussa or mut I losa. Yo sien your ho, don't high me down. So you do, you eagle cheat the goose. That would never sound lunar sousan yo, but laypen su the fan disappear, nigga shall goose than the gentleman, been at your time in gang. With my chin of dialogue. Dalai D to Taiwan, so by Fong Taiwan three dialogue meow. Now Fogan San you eagle dashboard here. You eagle four shot to rule like four to the sit down the shot. How di jung out? Then by gong jin ho the song dun the jin to change a four sham. So dialogue to time by one. Now no so shingle faster with a B sien. Tatsan Q Don't go. To alight. How to Shinda Pola. Tapai Tasso Di how deeds signal for Gong Sand Toots Hattering to each other. I think it's all the ease. Little tooth is the paint dialect you guys tangan time the four gong send. So rules. Dale solid. Wow. How like a four siang ha? That is a siang. I just you the your fate trade. Your man to four sang be then dark and do her. Say Sunji Gonzag. Not into Rugo Dag Xiang, not Kapuna young put on the Tentu Shang. It's a mega young quay and put a quiet then quite a good thing to Daga through the craya. Say hunta cured to hunta cur the mall, dark the fate. Put the other. Then I quasi. Tan puts a young cut out, thunder ego sangli quad. Why do we photo it go shan't line? For one send the tea how to swallow. Oh, tell more for Jing Sang your tea swallow. You eat you pusat to lie. Now like the solar is you oh push again photos young law. Well shan't solve the blue life for quite send to shiang yeah, neither can also push at shy. Now push and photos young kings. Lugo so your chang. Four putting your changes, four toy uso puts, yepuso punang. Tapus Tongse Chujada. Yesu tung Jul and Kai Sigilta has Y Zad Teng Jot. Y Li Bangzu on the Jot. Foja Shang Tsi Liot. The Tsi Li to saw say Foto Bution Foto Putioni. That's it. Gosing Tao. Now in Ru Lang it's all the roo, Lucy, then Lou Ya nitroa sort of swallow. Some is four jells. Come in Amitov Gancema to the Shiang Ami Tolford Gong the Fingua. What Joker does she fang too? So it is Tadida. Why read the four judong we eat Tadida, the Jinto Dong. Then the trace of four job to downtong three door, the seventh sand of Foj to Jin to Tong. The Tongo can by the bass, the foja, the jing to tong the quote swa in so the tan zong hidden I'm told for Tungos Sanjin Swang. So that say you think soon again in Dang dong Ting to Don Waysam. Kal Dizi Shogung the N Sang Woman Swayna Ni High the Shi want the Yolen Tibani. She did take a gang, but the foja. Mayo take a Amitov, Jigaputon.

SPEAKER_00 21:03

Turbus Longway, this year.

SPEAKER_01 22:00

The witch magin say foot, which hides, the hide yo tautan, you mafan. Go three the yuan doubt and yuanchi. Yes, guan guanjing, uh say Xing Kong just a male good in the pen sh. Near Pussha and near put the white. That like a so is centi. Session isong yao the lens and guan, signs guan, case on so sanguine, foja to a sigguan. The e lens we put a cool. Len to the cool. Isangar to a cool Usma Lens and the cool. So high east too. How cool to my light of the cool and the lentian of cool jump. Lensiku, send sungla being those cool, Tiahuan yes cool. Tia Huanjia's cool. Tia Huenjits. Niput Yangsuk, Basil Niametango, Nichols, Hwing Hunger. Lensuku. Sung Yesuko, which my young sung to yo. So eagle baby sang Nikonish on the uh can time. Which more cool? Juice eagle cur tea. Take a ker one of the curse made. Where throttle ego drop to qi and shin kon the drop two. So near two drop two that don't see. But so you want to meet. So it's a four too, two dialysis, the two and chin ching pogo, pogo earning, to two dialoso, so yo, done a foot chiday or dungeon. But some of the twanna. Me ti the two eager to the tau teat. Yung tao like me tao sisma taut, I bought you, sun cherry yang guang, qian, ting, yield so ha weights with bag, thing. Not three don't go length guanajan, you may in chang, you eat ya, book tick like ya, woman don't go ru jan the inchan to hando, so in four defaming the male thing or tens the de ego teacher, lensiku. You see don't go wind to change and like doubt and to the coolant tongue. Then say dear, the two to laja, or maybe, um too to cry huing the sirensuku. Then equation with champ free in the eagle hen, zong ya the eagle guenja, the diode gang ya. Lungway the guanya, say in tool the polom jal into jia lungway puts the dollar. Tam diat the uh fo jal hojita. La little doll's song sang pai shall dear. High one sang, one sang to the song with tin shen dog. Sung sian la. Then changing had a lung. Lensen to eat. Dang siana. Now the then lend the sham two song. Bain's other. A two sham high tea high o high tail down quite. Now in s take a little down quite cheese be tung in some tree down the stake. Two n thirty me, that jungle water e bander than dung is untuit or two in two dance lung. Anyway, that jungle good meal for jar eachem. Woman's the hot on eye. So don't like it, put out on light. Then be also quite great. Lens be also great, then the quay down her too put. Like a quay, quay quay the quay, to be changque. Lens eating some way quay, put some way more quay. Like a quat. Lens be also great, to pin the eagle cowpo putting the eagle quay when today the tongue see, uh, to send the lingwent, then four, eh, to get like a kong ja. Igor, poho, or chat to chill, who down two cent, so tight dance pin the two cent lodgung, how either things, they're the gang in dang su ta eager, pion mia puting the mok D Fang. That's the so b chingama, nya unda douchinarma, and foin di. Can one sang sen, can one shut down. So in the lung the jungle, in some chicen, uh the down eat of cunes, so me. Wait, we metals mach with the punaton, so now with me chill, hey. Womitu just vars, yeah, ha tensi the isn't gaizoosama, guys. None yasin at my gaiosum to in sync went there. Then season tea the dig tea, lens cooler, tell you to see your tongue gand. Didong lengthen the ting, swing the put, me jing pitao, not in the kunal sort of map. Now for jata yung, to lung way like shall dead to the water cuncil as you chance, or more means the chance, curlang, soan, wook like her the main dating kuna to the food guan. Cunac Now Kong Ich head to the con. Then see you cun. Kuna second trio guan, then blue in sword girl and that way. Little girl and tie a chance, took a chance, license to gur and eager eager, put the j tita. So yeah, Dang Xiao has lenne j tong Sway Woman Tong Yang Tenso Kugo, Wom Tong Yang e K and Zongia, so you wouldn't zon near some high bear and then way as Kunan to me the so high thumb tongs the dance is a g tit. Put gurant. Your current dance eo g tit. Then try now to the eatia or me to jalgan for jal putong. So then if you ha. Dance topilated jin do ship. Yo toyo. Tan mayo chong doubt again. Mayo di weo chong dal lessen, uso bullen lessen wenty. Tat chan bul the lensenguan do that. Say tin do shukong. A chill to that little guan to sang, you eat a toosh. Sang Bang Zuong can yet you get Lugong the sound the sen. Now each. Tonkun the Fufen Kurdon Do e Lensen Seo Igamu di Lensen Yog Tiet. Say Woman Si Yong summer like poor tie to ill guong to shucong. Tis lens little guong to sound the sen. So lens yeah, the tzuan. Bullens say kong. How do you dense high eat to the ling ma to shikongma? Cause it's so the ling chem e Najan e chien iba. You could eat in a male e not trample the link, I don't the ling, has a link. Three woman cagon for doubt to so tong e lens eat out the link, cuss it. Downward lens not two e the sen as so you look at eat the sentencing from the chemia, put from the home, from the home eat the e. Then from the three chemia. Has a lens and three called two diana. Now take a e home in the ling, canal ling, when I shall we can ho, where you may, e sweet and to the ling. Lugo male, take a send the e che hood, what's the to some meal? That's it eating you could eat the hot home to be. What a ty foo or the centre guanya, what type of kid to handle house in what a judging memoria eat I eat, say don't eat boots meal eat, has you eat in way chemical e or make on jan fangs can for jar to let you eat. So Taiwan the Sud Santo, Tong Sing Yun the Fogong San Dao Bab Eagle Sung yan Fasu Sanguai San. Now Tong Bian Huan yan S the Dose Tanz. Kuranly, Kui Gun Gobble Sandu so mere bamba is at the Kyutum for Naj Bufang G Damper Ne for Shiwa Sai page the tote transit so the Kui Gong Gauda eat yeah. Number though to tie transits is a mamma to get two caiula. Now can't shen that go gong libu go. Hapu ti damp, so for that, 'cause e band to double down, like you buofang, that tickets then, n four, tumper, now she better answer the gun high death, so that's you. Me bath long it's um four. Now pool e c e the jam for this. Not cheat on a seven gas with the cancel. Eh, e found me a kin army to four, we can she fang to hot def. So nine thing there, some quite so. Yeah, not yeah, champ, great way, u chillam. The ting to turn don't just create so much, the lame for Tamja the in sin the joy I mean to overjoy, come your tongue eat the gagnet, in a meal tree the ganet, has the inching kit, the judge dot si on ting to Asang the Granny, do you? That's on three years won't you too, sio fenchi the divine cai, um kit big one divan. Bell sis so to down. So, that is the T one shy baits. That jigged just Bani soon qang da eager, they can't put yeah, put it out away. So, Tamilung, siam money tongue for si ta to tie dress u bite. Uh the woman said, In shin tun eat a Wongway. So guns will earn epile and dead tie the nigga three tangles. Had that four days to four children, now ta kai you get si just sense six. You went down Shivang to Joa BL Twal Twil. Sivang Ting to system, you water the whole idea. What two time may go both tun? Don't be the boss then. Women the mean time system, three or mean that is half a dash. Mayo Hong Cheng went down, sis the Uchi Bah Young Dar only, say Tin to Sig Shu. Chi is eager tack hai too ma kai to matin to timbutong, no ja one chie bufu. Listen a mateo. Down the shivanjing to nitsome high timbuton. So you don't learn now. So in children she wan jing to ni wake out in make outing. Say ching to don't faster to chingar. Nit chase jinsen chins, how how chill she gong ha how two four chat ben no ha ni chepa na che do to get on four, rugo puss, then don't live in your gunner. Our kit hat him, that gwan Say Hut the dirto guns, jin sir made out, one chill to the in the sheel basin swan choos eat. Buso or chill the hard eat, so it's hard be to die. Time sa called the gong the no le to huan chirjo, one chill to the call the join, t in di chase a gumpen buton. Then take a buton, putn't de hua. In way, Tom the ching to don't gang it, cha si then do time to call tzin so bookan. Now it just bowl, tight yo, yeah, in shing bookalang young don't see two more common sins. So the song for tau yet ingos the sang fant. Woman the in s in chin. In the sink woman send the early go suma was sum in gaibian, t sung in the goat. So mean the guy bean di ho put the yung scienceing quantity the jo, so what dirty ho n go to sensing. Tam yung sciencin quantit the joke woman shen the join go to sensing. Yeah, just the um the two and the cheaper.

SPEAKER_00 49:05

So, you know, it's a good thing.

SPEAKER_01 49:57

So tan, or dear three dollar mountain that don't put up tan sis. Now take a tensio deep and sang, a two, just yao, sin yao ding. So it's a chang jia kon. Now di konkong, the tango loo dial di. So in the me, nan siang zong, soyo that's another time, do by tilda, do that, kong, kong, kong, quanjia so tien, that's what you ha. Nin now that you be in kongai. Mayo dongus, changing la meal you in the so nicotin kind of. How so the con the so and tell you can't doubt, mean sing the cong. Then say you go wait. So room or changed. Then san show the excellent. Lugo you shinguan fe and the ping land, dark egg ping fang, what chingwenny, nigga ping fang the yari, s Iban datiana, has a gau dachiana, has a sea dachiana. Tong tang ompa ping too chill suy my congi uran. Sui ni negas mayadi. Nisu was the zung ya but yari with such a new manu ping too pin to in the fungi, in chong has to chill. We thought why being so that loose on and to be gone in the shingle, but ping to Roma. So important yu yada. Kongji can load in the print suit. Sang fan, rum so doughing me do the ching pin. But naughty Neg Funji would sense mute and eating a question, niggas money angle name me, sang name me. Ig equation can just name me. I could say congi a treated ganjing. Cause the need to make the monon ganji. Now, why may conchi do a gin at one make a witness now? Say Nuggets how fungi system. What's then your phone conch low to cheat? Well, zung ya to cheap which in that what you mean. Ling shou woman that you do ling show can tangio the button. Tan shield changed fan kong then kong jong there. What ling shon do send the hui fan foo no di Kong Kong? So it's you too that ling should put some bell shalling shows do jing taught more. Suang can send the go tong so man that don't see mind some that work can send the de Hua. But the Kong Tangly Fang Kong the so de e got long room. Even tangly sang some mail the so Nitun Fang Fong Huang Shanxi Tho Tang were can out eager searching the iglopien. Pia it's e even roo and doing she to eat on piano in putting it condescing. Can searching in one tong she rumour. In a new miss fool yachtin either. Then chill to rule sir more changes and ho my son hoitina. Did you make yardi be woman dama? Say she uh the unless in either. Did you load to chew, not don't you mean? Say whom the ling show, well young what year. Ling show, can sancho the puton to die who the sinning now diet on the six, we fool ya tontai had the thung ya tonta, one suitang ya. Aya long send a hwa tomb what the sin now more shan't hwa, that thing was the chueto room. Shan fan, nib send the ling tong. So may I treat to Now lugn ji sweet for tanjon the huan, yukangha chal a time straight dog out that nigga boo fan just straight wish yet, I put into the down, the fan conto push, nigga. Two holofan was it to the hui, neither the ho, queba ni chida push out gill. Bitchella, this yet, n sendhua meton my man, near don't you with and chida. A boose champ, to down nit to matter, nichen nan, neon send the hoi, tia to chi, how do you mean? Say what you just want to do.

SPEAKER_00 55:39

How the sisga fit on how the eager yeah fit on two meal digging.

SPEAKER_01 56:26

Uh bali yam to that. Now dang line, that's a comment by wood. What you pick up the fancy minute fanfast, this young dog, Sushina City Dung Paolo Dolly. Na Yadian and can jungle yang to dozen render. It was so sen, it's yadien la tickets and negas an eat to the sen. Na paolo peeping go at my bow. Paulo says, Limba doesn't have the eco we sit the sen. What they can't wait to send, say and sit at home to peeping by sen, or to go soon egg and hazia, near be and then jia ting nangiang ten tong, can jol into the two different bit to as the jail. Dang walk peeping what a manga was male to shall was a buy young. So insu water can for jail beijing the tiny so won't be up tight on the six hundred baby by woods, me sin than that. Silwoods, that's it, take a boost each in the white cato. Shiang fine so me s and some daughter, neat song such yet uh the hose. So yaddy and waist summers by the high bag waste the center. Sumato yo, just all the ego, so you could waste the s and the centan. Then just put out quite you at high second hand. When to see out so ni soyo does me, soy the tong is the hole, ni haz the fashion. How shyang si foyer senato, you should put out it. Yeah, just one do for that jib, by pusar, bao shia, no uzu me sinj uts, that's it, or two fangs, like in no de haughty a put. Now for jig kulan, chikong is a canchiang, can't ya nango long lens either is a di, but what won't quite winty chances down near the winti. That's you lensing that coolant like some. Now woman umpun forensics, um tong, that's what she danced, or mechanic to do a canculan. Ah, you twenty the tree, now me is so head, than woman ye colan say some high bear and uh catch it, congi uran jo along you to feel, way can the fee, was the beer in kong the so head, way it's not congi uran at the kite. What does the negative? So not to my ban, but then what chong to man, do away, tongue to gong tongue qing yin kaies, now fading put on the band, Jiang also Ingorimpuya, woman sixuang Xing Sai, could only Xing Sens the Ju to Hold Ji Gus Yong Xing Sai, I Hablong Yu Huang Eagle, the Jo. Now Jiang Hua, this Yong Yan Mew mea, yeah, but some to the way. Then was summing guy being what to send. So it's like Jiang Hua, Y Far Tam the Sisia. So you see the one as the Bitness, the eager Jia Hue, it day Jiahua Lang that Suban Tam the eager to the Wyomet. Now Chican's phenomenon. Now what gives you can I not geniusly, for just on how teeth hide or tiny poke nuts and gives. Now Giovanni or two Hintian and Sensor Tagia. But the colour city, the cut. Now tag a needs to be what the hole made to chicky by the two hog on board silver. Tugy ho, now to gin tie, which is also a negative heights, hold like it bad to get seal, to jail hui, too. In an hour, take a beat and she tassosilla. Casu tula. Now you go dance then you saw how I have two go to jan down to weak as source to one you Taiwan, Tatu servant Shand. Tawan grading seven shit, that's you, we go jafu union take Iu. You see that Unian, Ta proven Tawan to chase and too cool to meal at. Oh, yes, ya, so that's wrong, send ya for J and Yo Sir, two pinten to whole I to Shenjao, sense, do not kill Bos Dangsaw, sense the door sent you full.