Misconceptions About Church - Is Church Necessary?

This week, Dan and Scott begin a conversation that they will revisit in the future: Misconceptions About Church. Today they will respond to the statement, "I don't have to go to church if I'm a Christian."

Sometimes people will say they don't have to go to church because they can go out in the woods and be in church. Or maybe they have experienced church hurt and are too mad or too afraid to try a church again. 

This podcast can provide a roadmap for you to have a conversation with your friends, neighbors or family who claim to believe in Christ as Savior, but will not love the church that he died for. 

No church is perfect, but you can't judge Christ on the failing of the people in His church. No church is perfect, but that isn't God's fault. Let us love what Jesus loves and my friend, He loves the church.

Produced, edited and hosted by Scott Askew and Dan Daugherty

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:16

Hey everybody, this is the Creek Cast with Dan and Scott. We are excited to be with you. It's a little late in the week. We are recording on Thursday this week, and we've just had a long week. And uh, but I'm glad we're here together. Dan, how are you doing, bud? Super good. Always good to be here and be able to record uh a podcast. We really appreciate the feedback that we get from this. Um we it's mostly just people from the church, but that's who we're doing it for.

SPEAKER_02 0:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:43

And so if you're outside of Broad Creek and you hear this, welcome and we're glad you're here. But at the same time, we're just um we're blessed to get to do this. It's a lot of fun. And uh Dan and I are gonna sit and talk about these things anyway, so we might as well record it just and talk about it. And uh, if somebody else can gain any insight into something, uh then that's a good thing. So um yeah, uh things going well, Dan? Everything so good, good, good.

SPEAKER_00 1:08

Getting ready to uh have our dedication of the school officially uh Saturday. Awesome. We've been reading through the entire Bible this week.

SPEAKER_01 1:17

Yeah, is that that's like a national thing going away?

SPEAKER_00 1:19

Well, and we didn't know that. Really? Yeah, that's that's amazing. We uh um Earl'd come up, uh he'd come up to me probably six months ago or so and said, Hey, what do you think about doing something like this? And he said, Do you think it'd be possible? I said, I think it'd be amazing. Let's, you know, I think it'd be great. And so um it kind of fell off my radar.

SPEAKER_02 1:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:41

And then he came up again and you know, he sent out some emails to the staff and he's like, Let's get we're gonna do that. I'm like, sweet. So yeah, like today I took my juniors over for our class time instead of having class today, because we finished up our last chapter and then uh we sat and read for an hour. Yeah, so we e so basically what you do is you're assigned some chapters uh and then you go and read it. You try it aloud though, like but not like super loud because there's a lot of people reading, and you read it aloud and then take it, turn it in, and then get something else if you have time. And so I mean, I read probably nine, nine chapters today, um, just to help in getting it done. So hopefully by Saturday morning, we'll be completely done with the Bible in a week. That's right from Monday through Saturday. And uh, and we have our celebration at 10 a.m. on Saturday, and I'm gonna be reading, not reading, but giving a synopsis of synopsis of Nehemiah 8, yeah, uh, where they break out the law and the people begin to go and preach morning. Yeah, and then they're like, no, don't go in the morning. I mean, yeah, you need repentance, but you know, the joy of the Lord is our strength. And so we need to we need to celebrate this. So yeah, that's really cool. Yeah, it's gonna be awesome.

SPEAKER_01 3:00

If we read through the Bible, I'd probably get a sign, Psalm 119. Um it's got 176 verses in it.

SPEAKER_00 3:05

I tell you, my fear, my fear was was that the some of the elementary kids would start reading Song of Songs. And we also because uh generally speaking, whenever there's a a question that is asked by one of the kids, um, they end up being told to ask Mr. Dan. And I wasn't sure I was gonna explain how breasts and goats go together.

SPEAKER_01 3:41

I tell you, there there are some things, maybe that's just what we need to talk about one day. And and I'll have to uh mark it because every time we put one up on Buzzsprout, a podcast, it asked me at the bottom, is there any explicit content in this podcast? I guess I'd have to click it for Song of Solomon. And uh I always think of that one that says if she's a if she's a wall, then we will sing songs to her. If she's a door, then we will write her off or we will push her out. In other words, if she's if she's standing in her purity, then great. But if she's a door that just allows anybody to come and go, then um, then we have to kick her out. And so it's crazy. The song Song of Solomon's nuts. And uh it's uh and everybody out there right now is pausing the podcast to go read Song of Solomon.

SPEAKER_00 4:26

The joke in Bible college was you had to be 21 to read it.

SPEAKER_01 4:29

Yeah, I'm gonna have to mark explicit content when we do that. That'd be great. Oh me. All right. Well, today, guys, we are going to discuss um uh assumptions and misconceptions of the church. And um, these are going to be some misconceptions that Christians have of the church. Um, we might come across a few that are misconceptions that um outsiders have of the church, but those are generally well known. Um, and um, you know, I and I and unfortunately, and maybe we need to talk about this just a little bit, and we didn't say, but um some of those misconceptions are are unfortunately true for some churches. And um, you know, there are some churches that you go in and they're judgmental. Yeah. Um and and we hear that all the time. And of course the hypocrite, you know, hey, I I don't want to go to a church with a bunch of hypocrites. And our saying here is we always could use one more hypocrite, so why don't you just come to church? But we're also a very warm and welcoming church, I think. I think so. Um and um we often get that comment from visitors. So yeah, I mean, we're gonna we might hit a couple of those. I've got some stories that I'll tell from from my past of people having misconceptions about the preacher and uh things that uh things that just happened in my life. Yeah. But um, we'll also get serious and talk about some of the misconceptions of hey, is the such as is the church a building? Um or you know, that is this my church? Um, you know, come to my church. Well, it's not our church, it's God's church. And so uh it's the church of Jesus Christ. And and um we don't we don't own any of it. And so it with that being said, I think really this could probably be our longest podcast because there's so many misconceptions. And um, there are misconceptions about everything. But we we just kind of picked out a few each and we're gonna talk about them and go over them. And um, like I say, some of it will be serious, some of it we'll joke about. Dan's got a couple of really cool books. Dan, you want to talk about those books really fast?

SPEAKER_00 6:26

So uh cool. There it's a series of four books, and uh actually one of my professors, Dr. Uh Gary Yates, um he he's a writer in one of these as well, but uh there's a series of four, it's called the Urban Legends uh series, and in uh it's Urban Legends and New Testament, Old Testament, uh theology, and church history. And uh it's 40 common misconceptions that we we we either taught because that's what we've always believed, or whatever, a lot of a lot of traditional type things. Uh for example, just uh in the New Testament, for example, um uh one of the let's see. Do not judge others is the is the urban legend. Yeah. Do not judge others. Right. And you see this all over the place. All over. Uh don't judge lest you be judged. That's not that's not at all the that's out of context. Yeah. Uh Jesus uh Jesus was flogged once. Um that's a misconception. Uh agape is a superior love to Phileo. Um, you know, and you we're speaking Greek there, but yeah. Uh just things like that, like in theology. Uh this one is my one of my favorites. Uh let's see. Um This world is not our home, right? Is the urban legend. Right. And yeah, and so anyway, so like you you get a lot a lot of these Old Testament and uh church history type things, um, New Testament theology. It's really, really good. I don't agree with some of them uh because I really do see them biblically. Yeah. Um uh but uh yeah, there's yeah. Here's one Christians are commanded to tithe. Oh that's that's not yeah, that's that's a misconception.

SPEAKER_01 8:15

Yeah, because we're we're not actually as Christians commanded to tithe. The tithe doesn't really exist in the in the New Testament, um, the same way that it does.

SPEAKER_00 8:22

I know we're gonna get a lot of hate mail for that from people listening to us say, wait a minute, no, it's it's true.

SPEAKER_01 8:28

And and that's and that's the hard part about this because we don't want to slice semantics here. We don't want to we we want to deal with the truth and give the truth, but there are um there are I mean there's lit look, I I grew up in churches of of loving and caring people, but one of the ones that always drove me crazy growing up was the assumption by Christians within the church that um deacons had the same um authority and power in the church as the elders. Right. And um that that's just that's that's not it's it's anti-biblical. It's there's nothing in the Bible that says deacons should have any kind of equal say to elders. Right. And nothing. There's nothing in there. And then when you when you couple that with the false idea of being able to vote in a church, yeah. Um and um and so and that that is something that's kind of coming to mind now because I remember when I went 20 years ago, I I tried out for my last church. I came and um they they were really interested in me, and I went and preached a trial sermon on a Sunday morning, and I walked in and there were a hundred probably 160 people in there. The church was full and um it was great. And I was like, man, this is awesome. And so I preached a sermon. I received, believe it or not, this is how bad it was. I received 100% of the vote. And um, so obviously I had not preached the truth because you preach the truth, you're not getting 100% of the vote. So um, so I've always looked back on that as one of my biggest, biggest flaws. Either that or either that or they're just they were tired of looking at it. Yeah, maybe, maybe they were just tired. Um, and I preached this sermon, got 100% of the vote, and then the next Sunday there were like 75 people there. And I asked, I said, why was there so many people here? And they said, Oh, well, some of those people we haven't seen in years, but they're members and they love a vote. And so they because they're members, they get to vote. And if you're here at Broad Creek, you know we don't vote. And um because and because, and no offense to anyone, but if we have to make a large spiritual decision on moving forward or doing something, we you can't leave that in the hands of someone who A isn't involved, B, doesn't understand the full concept of what we're talking about, and C is so spiritually immature that they don't show up all the time. And so those kind of things that I always think about, you know, when it comes to uh churches giving deacons equal power and everything else. And again, I'm not trying to pick a fight here. My uncle's church doesn't have elders, they only have deacons, but those deacons actually perform elder activities. They teach, they preach, they pray, they go to people's homes, they serve, they shepherd. And um, so in their churches, they're they're afraid to appoint elders because they believe the elder office is so high. Yeah, and it is. And that's the pastor, probably. It is the pastor himself, is the is the one elder, which again in scripture, you have to have a plurality of elders. So um there has to be more than one. Um, but anyway, um, there's a lot of those, and and that's just part of the misconception. So again, we could go through we could go through a hundred things easy and then go through a hundred more, but um, we're just gonna try to cover um kind of a baseline, maybe tell a few stories in the in the midst of it.

SPEAKER_00 11:41

So uh Dan, you want to get us started? Sure. Um, I'm gonna start with my big one because it may take a little longer. Um so the the common misconception, and and maybe maybe you listening have said it, um we definitely have heard it many, many times that I don't need to go to church, it's not necessary. Right now, is church necessary for salvation? No, it isn't. No. Okay. Uh we'll just go on and say that right away. Yeah. Um, church doesn't save you. Um it's not necessary for salvation. However, if you are saved, um I believe church is necessary. Um you uh you're missing the point of what Christ died for. Yep. Uh and we the the argument I always get is, you know, there's well, I I'm I'm part of the universal church, you know. I'm I'm a Christian, so I'm part of the body of Christ. Um yes, you are. Good job. Yeah. Um, but you're also part of a smaller body. That's right. Um, and this is evident throughout the New Testament. Um they they met together uh in mass groups, uh, and then they met together in smaller groups. That's right. Um, and these smaller groups became churches, right? Um, you know, uh not every Christian in the region came together. Right. Um, but they needed one another, so they came together in smaller groups, uh, which we call churches. Right. Um now can there be house churches? Sure. Sure. Um, but I think there's got to be the element of church there. Yeah. Uh and it when I mean by that is the element of worship. Right. Um, which uh sacraments, um, uh communion, uh, baptism, uh, those types of things, it needs to be a part of that. Um, praying together, uh, uh worshiping together through song, through word, through giving. Um, all of those things are are part of uh that we see biblically as worship services. Yeah. Um and we should be doing those things. Right. Um and uh the problem is is we we get these we get these uh concepts of well um you know, because I'm part of the larger body, um part of the the bigger part of the church, um all I need to do is read and pray and and do those things that I that I do. I can I can go outside and and nature can be my church. Yeah, I can look at the trees. Right. All right. The problem is what you're doing is you're you're individualizing your faith. That's right. Um yes, your faith is personal, but it's not meant to be lived in a personal way. That's right. It's meant to be lived in community. Um and so uh a Bible study at your house is not the same as church. Right. And you always hear that we're scripture says we're two or more are gathered. And uh let me just read you something here um about that. Um that is a gross misrepresentation of the church uh of that passage. Um that's out of uh Matthew chapter 18, verse 20. You gotta read the verses before uh because what it's actually talking about is there's it's if you have to privately uh if you have to rebuke somebody. Um so when you when you see Matthew 18, 20, so you know, where where it talks about how you know we're we're two or more gathered in prayer, so uh I am there also. Uh when you read that without the context, and then you can say, Oh yeah, well, two or three of us together, we're having church. Right. That's not what it's it's not at all. It's literally, um, and I'm just gonna read this to you so that we just a small portion, to approximately grasp or appropriately grasp the main point of Matthew 18, 20, we need to understand verses 15 through 17. Matthew 18, 15 through 17 is a description of what to do when a fellow believer sins. First go and privately rebuke the person in love. When done appropriately, many times that is all that needs to be done. If after the confrontation the person confesses and the sin and repents, the confrontation ends. But if there's no repentance, then go again with one or two more people. Uh try lovingly to rebuke the person for his or her sin. Uh when the goal, with the goal uh being repentance, if the sinner still refuses to repent, then the situation is taking the entire congregation. If repentance is still not uh evidence, the person is to be considered an unbeliever. Matthew 18 20 functions to provide the theological underpinnings uh or pennings, however you say it, uh, for this process. Uh after Jesus instructs them to on what to do when someone sins, verses 18 through 20 provide the reason, the authority and the theological underpinnings uh to that process. Um so it is the context of the passage is not where you you know two or three together, we have church. It's where two or three together, Christ is present in in that conflict, that that interaction with that sinful person. Um so so we need to be careful on how we um pick out scriptures and and try to apply them uh to to doctrine and to uh uh I wouldn't even call it doctrine, it's assumptions of what of what church is. So the misconception uh uh depreciates the importance of the of the sacred gathering. It it it it tells us that um okay, Jesus, you gave us the church. But you know, I really don't I really don't think that's necessary. Right. It's like it's like the baptism uh um argument that that we have sometimes with people where they say, Well, I don't have to be baptized. Then you're then you are looking at what Christ gave us and saying I don't need it. And saying I don't need it, that you know better than Jesus. Right. Um so the word the word for for church that is mostly mostly used that that I find is uh ecclesia, um, which is this gathering of people. It's not just church universal, it's a gathering of Christians together. Um and so um so we have to remember that. Um we we have to understand that there's something special about the people who gather uh when the gathered ones come together in the name of Christ. Yes, it's a building, it's a church building. Um uh and we are the church, yes. Uh if Broad Creek were to be taken out by a hurricane or a fire or an earthquake or whatever, um, we would still have church on Sunday. That's right, even without the building. If we had to meet in the middle of the field. Right, right. Um but it's not so it's yes, it's not about a building, it's about the gathering of people, and there's something special that happens in that gathering. Yep. Uh when we come into the name of Christ, we come in as one. That's right. And and so um God's word is open, the gospel's presented, um, the ordinances uh again are practiced, you know, of of baptism and and communion. Um there's this uh there's this worship uh that happens, and there's something that happens when we worship together in unity uh through song, through prayer, through the reading of the word, through our giving. Um, the building becomes more uh in those moments. And so um I'm gonna read to you a quote by Dietrich Bonhoeffer. I've told you uh when we had our books, a book um favorite book thing. Yeah, uh podcast. That's what we're doing now. That favorite that favorite thing we're doing today. So anyway, um, this is what he wrote in his book, Life Together. He says, the prisoner, the sick person, the Christian in exile sees in the companionship of a fellow Christian, a physical sign of the gracious presence of the triune God. Visitor and visited in loneliness recognize in each part in each other the Christ who is present in the body. They receive and meet each other there as one meets the Lord in reverence, humility, and joy. They receive each other's benedictions and the benediction of the Lord Jesus Christ. And so what he's talking about here is that Christian, what of what we do as Christians, uh, it's who we are. It's it's uh if you're gathered, if you're part of the gathered ones, uh, then you have you have this unity there that's that's uh um glorifying to God. The New Testament, um uh the New Testament never has a positive thing to say about somebody who is um not willing to meet with fellow believers.

SPEAKER_01 20:11

Well, it's it in Hebrews it calls them heathen. Yeah, yeah, it uses the word heathen. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:16

And we often I think it's 1025, Hebrews 1025, yeah. We often quote that as saying, see, we're commanded to go to church. It's not really a command to go to church. No, um, it's actually a it's actually um a command of what happens when the church is together, which we we spur one another on towards love and good deeds. Yep. And so that happens when we come together. Yep. And if we don't do those things, if we don't come together and and serve with one another and and challenge each other, like like when you leave for Sunday, um uh after Sunday service after a sermon, um, you know, should we be talking about the game or should we talking about like what it what did what did you hear? What did you learn today? Right. I mean, that's what that's what we're supposed to be doing. That's what that's what it should drive us to do.

SPEAKER_01 21:01

Which is one of the reasons why we continue church now, especially with the sermon, into small groups during the week. And I experienced that this week where I had my Wednesday morning Bible study came in, they had their small group the night before, and they had serious questions that brought up out of the small group questions, but it was all about the sermon and the text. And so I was just in there thrilled that they were asking questions about the sermon four days after the sermon takes place. And uh it's it's so I think we're getting better and better at continuation of of thought from sermon through the week, and it's a good thing.

SPEAKER_00 21:34

Yeah, and and that's that's what that's what the gathering should uh be instilling in us. The spurring us, yeah. Um and so that doesn't happen if we neglect meeting together, right? Right. So the heart behind uh Hebrews 10 25 is is not go to church, right? It's it's certainly there as a part of like that's what we do, but it's it's spur one another on towards love and good deeds. You we should be bringing that together. where we're we're actually um uh confronting uh sin we're we're praying for one another in our hurts we're you know encouraging one another to to keep going um uh we're uh serving together uh not just within the the body but with uh out in the community as the body um and then ephesians 4 1 through 3 um talks about um how we are the body of Christ um and I'm just gonna uh Paul writes I therefore a prisoner of the Lord urge you to walk in the manner worthy of the calling into which you have been called with all humility and gentleness with patience bearing with one another in love eager to maintain the unity of the spirit in the in the bond of peace there is one body and one spirit just as you were called to the one hope that brings to your call one Lord one faith one baptism one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all and so when you when you hear Paul say that to the church in Ephesus first of all who what who is he writing he's not writing to universal Christians right he's writing to a specific church in Ephesus and he's telling them that that you are together and when you're together there's this humility and gentleness there's this patience and you're bearing with one another and each other's uh burdens and and you're you're you're maintaining unity and the bond of peace um it is so vital that we understand that because church is something that is not optional right uh because it's part of part of a redeemed person's life so if you are a Christian if you are redeemed church should be part of your life now I think one of the things that people get uh where where they get this misconception from is because they've experienced church hurt. Yeah and if you want to know more about church hurt listen to like it's like number four four or five on our podcast list um we talk about that um but church hurt um again listen to the podcast if you're hurt by the church it's not Jesus who hurt you that's right it's his people and people are gonna be people um it's like the hypocrite thing you know like you know we there's always room for one more hypocrite here um then you shouldn't be going anywhere because there's hypocrites everywhere so if your excuse is I don't go to church because hypocrites are there then you stay home. That's right.

SPEAKER_01 24:32

It's the self I think a lot of times in my experience and I'll just talk about my experience in church people will say well I I don't go to that church anymore because I didn't like this or I didn't go to church anymore or I or I or I. And the what you're explaining what you're describing is perfect because when you read Ephesians 4 and I would skip ahead about 10 verses in Ephesians 4 and where Paul writes he gave uh the apostles the prophets the evangelists the shepherds and the teachers we call it apest a p s t there at verse 11 to equip the saints for the work of ministry for building up the body of Christ. It's really hard to build up a body of Christ if you're not showing up. Yeah and we've even said before like the spiritual gifts that we um receive when we become Christians whether it be teaching preaching hospitality whatever it is those spiritual gifts aren't meant for us. Right. They they are completely wasted if we don't use them within a community. And um so not only do I need others but others absolutely need me. Yeah and there's no one in our church from the elder all the way down to the smallest child um counting special needs counting those who are just brand new Christians who don't know what the first book of the New Testament is they're all needed as Christians and and to pour into the body of Christ every part of us and if you want to you know of course 1 Corinthians 12 talks about how we're all a body part every one of us and every body part matters. Yep and so that that whole you know the whole wrapped up idea that he's talking about until we attain to the unity of faith unity and of the knowledge of the Son of God to mature manhood to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ so we may no longer be children tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine by human cunning by craftiness and deceitful screams and then he says in verse 15 rather speaking the truth in love we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head into Christ and the head is meant to be uh the head that is Christ is meant to be the head of one body yeah not you know how the how can you be a head of multiple bodies right and uh and from the whole body joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped when each part is working properly makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love. And and as long as we think it's just about us, I don't like this or I don't do this or I don't like this I I the reason I often tell people I feel like I could go into any Bible preaching God fearing church regardless of the name on the sign, I believe that because I know that it's not about me. I didn't die for the church. I don't understand everything that God has in store for me. I I I have to operate from an idea of humility that if I'm there then God has me there for a reason for others and to love and to grow together. Yes and that together is really important.

SPEAKER_00 27:38

Yes yes in the edification of the body yes if if you just take the body of Christ as universal and you don't have to go to quote unquote church in order to be a Christian and all that I mean I it's it's so it's so silly because how are you to edify the body? You're not going to edify the the Christians in China no sitting in your living room.

SPEAKER_01 27:59

No you're not gonna edify the Christians in the church down the street and sitting in your living room let alone the Christian let alone the Christians of cross you know and so you know like like I said earlier the the Christian faith is personal but it's not it's not individual.

SPEAKER_00 28:10

No. It's it's it's definitely meant to be lived in a in the con uh a community. That's right. And so one one of the things that uh urban legends of theology uh says on this topic is says um saying that you belong to the universal church but not a local church is like being married to no one in particular.

SPEAKER_01 28:32

That's pretty good. If you love Jesus you must love his bride. Yeah. Can you imagine not loving like your wife loves something yeah your wife loves whatever and um and you don't care for it in the least bit you never support it you never take her to see that or get that or have that and and you're and she says oh I'm excited about it and you just look at her and shake your head and say you're stupid. And ultimately that's kind of what we're you're you're talking about a church that Jesus Christ died for died for yeah and you're just looking at him and saying yeah that's not for me. You're for me but not what you died for. I don't care about that. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 29:12

Yeah and how can you love his bride if you won't even join her changing New Testament metaphors we cannot say we are joined to the head Jesus if we do not belong to his body. That's exactly right we are an amputated body part unconnected of no use in bleeding out. And amputated body parts die. Yes do you want Jesus to love you then join the object of his affections become one of his bride one with his bride and Jesus will become one with you there's just so much there that we're missing if you are saying I don't have to go to church. I think it's driven by church hurt. It's driven by laziness. Yeah um it's driven by the um the mad dash uh of of busyness in our culture um we were just talking about this uh the other day um you know it used to be Sundays and Wednesdays never had anything going on for the reason of of church right but now we have we have kids and and families involved in soccer and baseball practicing on Sundays evenings having yeah having games on Sunday mornings kids clamoring to get to youth group but they can't get out of baseball practice in time to get here yeah and shame shame on coaches and absolutely shame on a society that I mean absolutely in in should we be surprised no we we live in a godless society and but guess who participates in a lot of that Christians Christians do we all do yeah yeah instead of taking a stand and taking back what what is supposed to be we just give into it and we use the excuse when we see the the pastors out in public of oh yeah sorry I was I was busy that day busy doing what yeah I mean I mean and and I'm not just saying that as somebody who's been in ministry for 25 years and and I'm a little bit cynical of the excuses. Yeah um but even when I'm on vacation guess what I do I go to church because it's important. It's important I don't just go to church because I'm paid to be here. Right. Like like when when my wife and I go out of town yeah we go to church. Yeah yeah I mean very rarely have we not gone to church if we're across the country somewhere.

SPEAKER_01 31:30

I was gonna say I don't I mean I I know there's probably been times I remember going to the mountains and going to a beautiful little church in Fosco and um it was you know you drive up and you're like okay I wonder what this is going to be like and it was what it was a Christian church. It was just a you know non-denominational Christian church and uh we went in and it was the warmest welcome and a deacon said hey I'll come over and I'll sit with you if you need me to and then during the service he came and sat anyway but he didn't sit on top of us he sat away and he said listen if you have any questions or just need something let me know I'll get it for you and then after church he thanked us for letting him sit with us and I was like dude you're awesome man you know this and it it really made an impression on me even though the preacher didn't preach that day they had CCF there and they were giving a presentation but I that little church made an impression on me I always you know I always thought man what a great little place um my in-laws church when we go up to Richmond is a good church Fairmount is a good church and so we we like to go there but um I I know there I know there's a lot of churches out there that don't fit the model of a good church. I understand that right but that's not Jesus' fault. That's right. That's right Jesus isn't going oh yeah I mean that's not Jesus's fault it's our fault is well not maybe not but it's man's fault it's man's fault yeah and um and judge Jesus against so f find a church I mean if you if you find yourself listening to this and you don't have a church family that you go to again you're always welcome at Broad Creek.

SPEAKER_00 32:52

Oh we'd love that but it you gotta do the due diligence to find a church that is actually upholding scripture that's right um and not um but again even even if you find even as great as as Broad Creek is and I'm not saying that just because I'm a pastor here this is the I'm a pastor here because of how great this place is. And I can say that too um I can tell you that we're we're we're not gonna do everything right either.

SPEAKER_01 33:21

Yeah we're gonna we're gonna show stupid pictures on the screen and we're gonna not say yeah trip.

SPEAKER_00 33:32

But I I'll you know I I might tick you off you know we're not perfect but you know you're not gonna find one ever until we're with Christ as one body in heaven then there's no need for church gatherings like we have um and so if you are using the excuse of church isn't necessary I don't have to go I can worship God in the woods I would challenge you to read your Bible again first and then you need to surrender your um your uh pride yeah your prideful heart to the Lord because that that's your problem it's a it's a it's a it's a problem of pride.

SPEAKER_01 34:18

And and and I would add to that if you're church hopping continually like sharing four or five churches that you hop around yeah you've got to stop it because what you're doing is you're trying not to put roots deep enough to actually become involved in a church and you're only gaining what they can give you. Right. And so basically I and I I don't again I don't mean to insult anyone but you're leaching yes off of church congregations when you should be participating giving and building up the body.

SPEAKER_00 34:50

You are in essence all you are is a consumer. That's right.

SPEAKER_01 34:53

And consumer consumerism within the church is a is a really big deal these days. Yes. People and so churches you know we it's it's amazing to me that we have reviews online for churches for churches yeah and and it's just it's so crazy because I I just um we have a we have a couple who moved away from this area and they're living about 45 minutes away now and they've been trying to come to church here but 45 minutes is a that's a long way. And I get it. You know if you and and they have a lot of good churches I feel like around them. And so they called me the other night and they said hey Scott we we're we're gonna we we feel like we just can't go to Broad Creek anymore. We need to find another church and I said first of all great you know I I not great that you're leaving right but great that your attitude is we're not just gonna quit we're and you're not just gonna watch online you're gonna go because they have been watching online and they have been getting here from time to time yeah but it's been really hard on them. And uh so I I told them I said I said do you have any churches in mind and they were saying well there's a couple around I said I would go I would pick out maybe three or four and go to them Sunday each and then what I would do is I would decide on one to go for three months and go to that church for three months and and really get into it really get to know leadership get to know volunteers get to know people and if it fits at the end of three months and the the preaching is biblical and Jesus is you know you know just worshiped above all else then look past all the little idiosyncrasies and stay if not then give the second church a try for three months but at the end of that three months you got to make a decision. Yeah you're not gonna go church hopping you're not gonna go around you're gonna find a church whether it's the perfect church or not right and you're gonna go right and and and they agreed they said yes that's what we want to do. So and I was trying to give them as much leeway as possible but I know people who've hopped churches for years. Yeah and and maybe the preacher will preach a sermon and it ticks them off and they don't come back for two months and then they wander back in the doors on on a Sunday morning. Yeah and I and I get that but at the very same time you're missing the point of what church is. If again I go back to that sermon where I had a hundred percent you know vote I obviously didn't do the right thing because I should have really ticked somebody off in my sermon. Not that I should have but I should have allowed God to step on toes in that sermon and I feel like I got in the way well because we want to impress people.

SPEAKER_00 37:20

I mean I've been there I've had to preach well I wanted the job I've had I've had to preach the sermon in order to get hired I've had to say the right things I told all the funny jokes and I told the great stories and yeah scripture probably took second or third place and all of it.

SPEAKER_01 37:33

And so yeah I mean we want to do that and and I get it it was 20 years ago I mean I'm I'm almost 30 years in now. So it's it really is you know the we want to do the right thing but for us sometimes going to a church again if it's biblically accurate if Jesus is worshipped above all else right and and I would say if the people act like a body act like a family absolutely I think that's important. Absolutely and uh you can't go to a church where everybody's a jerk because you'll become a jerk.

SPEAKER_00 38:02

Yeah and um I mean if if you step in if you step in the doors of a church you'll you'll you'll if they are genuine you will know right away. Sure you feel it um you feel it um and we're not we're not both Scott and I are not into the feely no no no no like Christianity crap. We are definitely into the like like the word of God has to be spoken. But you you will you will know a church in their authenticity uh when you first walk in. Yep. If you have any kind of red flags in that authentic authenticity then you know then then then then trust your gut. I I don't know I I'm not really into that crap either but um you know the the reality is like like you have to you have to find the church. I if I went into a church and and all chaos was was happening I I would I would turn around and walk out. Yeah I I that's just me. I I'm just uh I I happen to take first Corinthians pretty seriously when it says God is a God of orderly worship. That's right. And so um but for other people but whatever but my point is that you need to go um and if you're experiencing hurt from a previous church and and um and you you are still having struggles in that um you need to go to a new church and go regularly to allow people to speak healing into your life. You're not gonna heal away from God's people. Right. You're and you're gonna have your guard up when you go there.

SPEAKER_01 39:34

You're gonna have all your and that's okay. It's okay. You've got to go in and sit and let people talk to you. You've got to you've got to again we use the word feel but you've got to feel that that presence of the Holy Spirit in that place. Right. You've got to feel welcome I I think of James 3 um 17 the wisdom from above is first pure then peaceable gentle open to reason full of mercy and good fruits impartial and sincere I mean if they if they're willing to talk answer questions I you know I Dan and I joke about it all the time we're so available we're we're so we're so available that there's there's things that I have kids and teens sometimes say and do to me that I never would have thought to do to the senior minister my senior minister I I there's no way. And one day the kids had some Nerf guns and I was walking over and one of the kids was standing by the door and he just he had the gun the nerf gun in his coat and he just opened up his coat and pointed a gun at me and pulled the trigger. And you know you're we live in this crazy world where you never know exactly and I knew this kid and I didn't you know but in that moment and when the Nerf thing hit me and fell to the ground I looked back up at him and I couldn't believe that he shot the preacher with a nerf gun. I was like but we allow ourselves to be so available and accessible that that is part of what's going to happen when we do. And and I think that your preacher shouldn't be on a throne. I I I he shouldn't be on his high horse running around.

SPEAKER_00 41:03

Yeah so um if you want him you should be able to get up with him and um there's just a lot of things to it I I I I agree and I think I think you know if if you are if you are hurting from past experience um uh you're never gonna find healing until you get involved in another church body who will love you and love you through those things. And it may take you some time it may take some time but you have to force yourself get there. You have to you have to make that decision saying hey I'm going yep and I'm gonna I'm gonna allow people uh in um as I as I can yeah um and uh you know I I just think there's just so much there and again that we're really accessible I I you know I I I don't know I may I won't share that anyway um I was going to but I'm I'm Aaron warned us today before he said don't say anything on on here and and I just yelled yeah yeah I'm the one you really got to worry about I don't know we both said things so I'm not gonna say what I th I was going to what I'm trying to say is that people feel comfortable they come up to us all the time you don't have to call us pastor no you don't have to when when I when I'm done with my doctorate I've already tell people all the time you don't have to call me doctor um you know that type of stuff uh you know we people come up and say hey Dan I got a joke for you and it's sometimes it's not the it's not always the best joke but they come they come comfortable they're comfortable to tell me this joke yeah you know type of thing and so um but you know that that's that's uh that's what a family is yeah and so um so I want to encourage you if if you are not going to church or you are you have this mindset of it's not necessary you need to read your Bible again yeah and you need to get involved in the church family and serve with them and let them love you and learn and be equipped as the Ephesians 4 tells us that we may be going out and doing the good work that we're supposed to be doing. That's right. So that's good so we again I told and that's probably my last I was stuff.

SPEAKER_01 43:06

No no no I wanted to get that one in no that that and that's really that's so important. And so maybe this is a misconceptions talk but it's also a talk about what to expect out of a church and and what we should be doing in attending a church and being a body of Christ. And so um no I'm glad I'm glad you had that. I mean some of the stuff that I had and we're we're we're like 43 minutes and so um we don't have to elongate this a whole lot but um I'm sure some of you may have some um questions I know when Dan was reading some of the headings out of the Urban Legends book you might yeah you might pick up on some of those I know I know some of you listen to this with a notepad so maybe you wrote some down and we'll get some fan mail but that's great. And um but no I'm I I think of misconceptions all the time with the church because we hear them I remember one guy um had stopped by the house when I lived at uh my last church and I was living in the parsonage and he stopped by and he he asked a question. He wasn't From here, and um, but he was gonna be in town, he was gonna stay in Bellhaven, which was nearby, and then be back in the area. Something had to do with farm. I don't remember what it was, and uh, but he was gonna be there on Sunday, and so I said, Oh man, you should come to church. And his immediate, his immediate response was, Well, how much does it cost? And I said, I said, um It's free fifty-free. Yeah, yeah, free fifty-free. That's a good way to put it. And I said, uh, I said, Bud, it it doesn't cost anything to come to church. I I said, You just you just come. And he's like, No, no, no, no. How much it's like a cover charge, right? And I said, Are you talking about like giving? Like, you know, what what most the tithe, you know? And he said, Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. He said, Well, how much do I have to give? I said, How about you just come? I said, Don't worry about giving anything. Oh, I'd have to give something. Well, you give whatever you want when the plates pass. I, you know, it doesn't really matter to me. I said, but um, I I said, you can you can do I said, but you don't have to pay anything to come church. And then the second question, and you know this one, what do I wear? Yeah, you know, and I said, Well, I said, you can wear jeans uh and shorts. To that church, it was a little more formal than us. I mean, if you show up on a Sunday morning, Dan and I are probably gonna be in jeans. Yep. Uh either I'm gonna be wearing a t-shirt and a button-down shirt over it, or most of the time button-down shirts. Um, I, you know, it but we're not formal. People come to church in shorts, people come to church in the world.

SPEAKER_00 45:21

In fact, we're t-shirt. When Scott and I put a suit on for a funeral, oh my gosh. People are taking pictures of us.

SPEAKER_01 45:28

And you know who you are.

SPEAKER_00 45:29

You're listening to these podcasts. Taking pictures of us because you are utterly shocked to see both your pastors wearing a suit.

SPEAKER_01 45:37

And they and you'll say things like, Man, y'all look really good today. Like we're like, we're gonna be encouraged to wear that on Sunday, right? I don't think so.

SPEAKER_00 45:46

Yeah, and then I wore one again a few days later for or a week later for the uh the banquet. The banquet, the first choice banquet. And I get, you look really handsome. You look so and I'm like, man, I just so you're thinking about wearing a suit. Well, no, no, I I I'm like, I'm like, if I if that's my repellent is to look homeless, I'm gonna do that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, there you go. Like a vagabond just pull up on wearing derelict. We just asked that you put clothes on when you come to church.

SPEAKER_01 46:20

Yeah, be be modest about it. I mean, you know, and and just come to church.

SPEAKER_00 46:24

And that's I I had a I had a lady that came to church uh in Idaho her first Sunday. She had never been to church. Um and I I th I had she had a conversation, she was invited by a a neighbor. She had a conversation, and and the lady the lady she said, you know, what what do I need to wear? And then so the the lady in our church said we don't we don't have a dress code, just come to church, you know, and just you know, put clothes on and come to church. Um as a preacher, it was really difficult because when this woman came in, she had clothes on barely. Wow. And but she she didn't know. And so like like like I'm standing elevated on a stage looking down at the congregation and preaching, and and so I'm like trying to divert my eyes, and so I mean, you guys are getting this picture. Um, and so she came up afterwards and she was like, she was like, Oh, that was this was so amazing, my first experience in church, and I and then it clicked with me. Okay, she's never been before. She had no idea what to do. And so she came back every week. And she but uh it was it was crazy because after about three weeks, uh it was three weeks of me having to divert my eyes. Um, but after three weeks, she and she was she was coming to a Bible study during the week and she was you know trying to get involved with different things and helping with our uh our um uh food ministry that we had uh to uh with the food bank and um that type of stuff. And like after about three weeks of coming, she got more clothes and more clothes and more clothes. And I and I noticed that like as she was maturing in her understanding, what even a Christian yet, but her understanding of of the people that she was with and the environment she was in and who this God is, and um she started becoming more aware. Yeah. Uh and uh she started changing because she saw the the the need of it. And then Christ she came to Christ, she finally came to Christ, and like her whole life changed, and as her life changed, she got better.

SPEAKER_02 48:36

Right.

SPEAKER_00 48:37

And but we're we're about trying to fix people prior. And so, like, like you gotta come this way, and you gotta you gotta, you know, and it's like no, no, no. You come to Jesus and He will clean your life up. That's right. And so uh so yeah, that's that's my that's my little story about maybe you could have turned the air conditioner way down and offered her a robe.

SPEAKER_01 48:57

Um but um but no, it's no I think you d I you're right. We we can't ask people to change before they come. That's completely stupid. We can't tell people, hey, you've got to go ahead and clean up your life before you come to Jesus. Um that's the whole point of coming to Jesus, is that you'll never get clean enough. So come to Christ and let Him clean it. Yeah, you you you don't have a we don't have a cover charge, so you're right. You don't have to worry about what you got to give. That's right. And you just wear clothes. That's right. Wear clothes that cover your body, wear clothes, and and um and and make sure and come.

SPEAKER_00 49:29

Um gosh, but the coolest thing of that whole thing is nobody said anything to her. That's awesome. That's pretty cool. And and uh obviously if it were to kept prolonging for a long period of time, you know, well, maybe someone's a relationship with her and walk her to the side, yeah. Say, hey, you know, we want to cover those puppies up and make sure you're okay. Yeah, yeah. But you know, uh yeah, I in in in starting with the heart first, like you know, you're doing okay, you know, that type of stuff. But uh you know, we didn't have to because it was just it it was such a loving reception of her. And I I granted, not all churches are that way.

SPEAKER_01 50:04

No, no, no, no. I I've I've been well we I again I've been in a church before where um guy came in in a hat and um and just a just a trucker hat and uh just I guess he wore it all and he did, he wore it all the time. He ended up coming for a while and then they left the area. But he came for like four or five months, and so he came twice and we had an elders' meeting, and one of the elders came in and he was red-faced. And when he came in red-faced, you knew you knew it wasn't I I mean, those elder meetings were a little painful anyway, but um I dreaded them and prayed a lot. Man, they improved my prayer life a lot. Oh, yeah, I bet. And um, and so I I went in that meeting, he came in red faced, and I was like, oh man, and uh so we were sitting there, and then it came time for kind of open floor and what and he started up, and when he started up, he said, Who is going to get that hat off of his head? And I said, Um, I I said, he takes it off when we pray. And and I said, That's respectful. Uh, you know, but do we really want to go to him and tell him he can't wear the hat in the church? And he said, he looked at me and he said, You need to go tell him to take that hat off. I said, I'm probably the last person that needs to tell him to take the hat off. And that is not how the elders saw it. And so it ended up where I don't think anybody ever talked to him and then they left. But um, you know, if again, wearing a hat is something, and we could delve into the biblical into first Corinthians about covering your head, not covering your head and all the cultural norms of it.

SPEAKER_00 51:32

Which is funny because they'll they'll tell they'll tell you it's cultural in a lot of other areas, but on that that particular area about covering your head, they'll say that that's that's a mandate. Right, right. Then okay, then then everybody has to cover their heads. That's right. Everybody does. Because women were supposed to cover their heads.

SPEAKER_01 51:50

That's right. And that and that's the that's the thing, and that's the way we take the Bible. Oh, if the Bible fits me, then that's what I'm gonna do. But it doesn't fit me.

SPEAKER_00 51:58

The hat thing is a is a cultural thing in in in our culture. It's a sign of disrespect to wear a hat in a building.

SPEAKER_01 52:06

If you walked into our church service barefooted, yeah, I'm sure somebody would probably have people and we have several. I'm sure somebody would probably say, Oh, that person was barefooted, you know, and they wouldn't make it a big deal. But I know past churches I've served, you walk in barefooted and they would be they probably question the person before they left. Do you not have shoes? Do you do you need shoes? You know, are you poor? Are you poor? Yeah, and all that, all those you know, incriminating questions when the problem probably just left their shoes in the car and just came in barefooted. Right. And when I was in India, a lot of those folks didn't wear shoes to church because they might not have them. Or or it was just hot and they decided to go barefooted. Right. And honestly, I felt really at home because I love going barefoot. I mean, I'm sitting here right now, I kick my shoes off. So you always have your shoes on. I I walk around the office without my shoes on, probably to everybody else's disgust. But it's um yeah, it's I don't care. And uh it's just uh it's just one of those things that that culturally, you know, we we we get upset over, but um in other places and and even here, if you want to come to Broad Creek and you insist on not wearing shoes, I I don't know that anybody's a lot of or if you want to wear a hat. Yeah, if you want to wear a hat. I don't think anybody's gonna say anything too much.

SPEAKER_00 53:16

Several hats in our oh yeah, every Sunday. I have hats. I mean it's about a month ago. It was St. Patrick's Day, uh, the the Sunday uh right before St. Patrick's Day, I wore a hat on the stage. Yeah. And I was gonna take it off when I first got to church, but I'm like, you know what?

SPEAKER_01 53:30

I remember because I remember looking up and going, he's got a hat on. I wonder if anybody and I and then immediately the thought was nobody's gonna say a word.

SPEAKER_00 53:38

No, and nobody did. I mean, there's maybe somebody thought it, but uh uh a long time ago, about three years ago, um in uh in our church here at Broad Creek, uh, there was a uh an older older lady that was sitting in the in the back of of the the church there, and uh we had a younger couple uh sitting in front of her, and she had made a mention that somebody on stage had a hat on. I can't believe that man has a hat on. Yeah. And our younger couple turned around and in and with all grace and dignity and everything said, ma'am, that doesn't matter here. Yeah. And they turned back around. I was like, good for you. Good for them, good for you. And yeah, so yeah, I never heard anything about about my hat. Um, will I wear a hat again? Probably. Oh, sure. I'm working myself up to wear shorts at some point.

SPEAKER_01 54:26

Yeah, but that that that'll be that'll be a fun day because I nobody wants to see your legs.

SPEAKER_00 54:32

And um, but it's but my but my grandma, I always have this picture of my grandpa turning me around at the door and sending me back home to put short pants on.

SPEAKER_01 54:40

Well, and again, I I I had I had a terrible case of poison ivy at one time, and I may have spoken about this on the podcast, but um, I had a terrible case of poison ivy. It was eating into the bone of my leg. It was terrible, it was really bad. And I this was Friday. I went to my friend who was a doctor, and he said, Look, he said, you need to put this medicine on and keep it uncovered. Yeah. And I said, Well, I'm supposed to preach on Sunday. I said, Can I put a bandage over it? And he said, I wouldn't wear jeans. He said, But you need to talk to your elders. And I said, Yeah. So I called the elders, told them, hey, I need I'll I'm preaching Sunday. I said, but I'm gonna have to wear shorts because if this drags over this or whatever, it could become messy while I'm standing there preaching. And they said, Okay, yeah, I guess so, whatever. And they didn't like it, but they said, Okay. And um, a couple from the church decided that that was so wrong that they left the church over me preaching shorts. And I, and I, and again, guys, you have to understand, I grew up in in churches and worked in churches that as long as you settled within boundaries, not biblical boundaries, but boundaries that were culturally accepted, traditional within that church, then you were fine if you dared step out of those boundaries. Um, and I can tell you so many stories. I remember when my brother came forward to be baptized, and the preacher at the time was Dan Michael, who was one of my mentors, and and um Dan decided to take my brother into the back and have a conversation with him. Well, he hadn't talked to him previously. Well, you would have thought that Dan was doing like horrible things to my brother. He took him into the office, left the door open, they were sitting there, and Dan was just going through scripture, making sure Eric understood what he was going to do. But I heard people in the congregation going, why isn't he just going and baptizing him? What does he have to sit and talk to him for? But you you want to talk to people to make sure they understand what's going on. Most of the time we have it where people come to us beforehand and we can have a conversation. And if they don't, then we at least talk to them beforehand just to make sure they they have a some idea. Yep. And if it's a kid, we definitely want to talk to him if it's a young person. So um, but I remember that, that was and I remember it was a little awkward, but even my dad was sitting there going, man, I'm really happy he's talking to him before he does this, you know, make sure.

SPEAKER_02 56:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:48

And so, you know, I mean I've and I was gonna tell all these stories today, but I I'm not gonna get into it. I mean, I had a I had a lady who called me to get a snake out of her house one day. I had a um because I'm the preacher and didn't have anything else to do. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:59

And and and because what's the misconception that we only work two days one day a week and maybe on Wednesday if we're you know if we're a midweek.

SPEAKER_01 57:08

Yeah. And so this was a Thursday. And she literally told me on the phone, she said, Well, I knew I could call you because you're a preacher and don't do anything the rest of the week. And I said, Oh, uh okay. I can imagine it basically. And I said, Where's where's the snake? She said, Well, it's in my bathroom. It came out the um, there's a um a lamp uh light fixture above the tub, and I was taking a shower this morning, she said, and the snake just started coming out of the light fixture above me. Oh man. And so she said, I jumped out of the shower, closed the curtain, and closed the door. And so I'm sure he's still in there. And I went in there and he was. He was curled up beside, he was all a huge black snake, and he was curled up beside the sink, and I I managed to push it down, grab it behind the head, took it outside, and put it in a big container. And um, and while I'm doing it, I'm just thinking, is this what I did is this the life I've chosen? I'm I I'm also a pest control guy.

SPEAKER_00 58:01

I wouldn't have called you because there I'd have jumped out the shower, set my house on fire, and ran down the street naked.

SPEAKER_01 58:08

And I'm not a firefighter or someone who wants to see that. So um, but that's that's the misconceptions that we get into sometimes. And um, I you know, I I've I've long felt that we um carry over a lot of things from the past. I I've told people before, I think I've told you, we pay for the sins of the past. And um, and not that it's our sins, but it's the sins of others that create issues and problems such as church hurt that we have to try to unravel. It's like constant knots and we're constantly trying to unravel knots. Whereas if we just did what we were supposed to do biblically, then it would be continuation rather than not untying. And um, I just think sometimes we we have to just stop and look at the Bible and say, hey, you know, let let's treat each other with kindness and love. Um, you know, and if and if this week you have a snake and you need someone to come, then then call me or I'll call Stan Weaver. Stan Weaver's dude, he's like the snake wrangler. Oh yeah, man, there was a snake down here one day.

SPEAKER_00 59:16

Do not call me or Kevin or Kevin or Stephanie or Stephanie. Do not call me because if I come, I'm coming packing, and you're gonna have holes in your floor.

SPEAKER_01 59:27

I I tell you what, Stan Weaver, bless his soul, was down here one day and there was a snake crawling in the little seam between the wood ramp going up into the door down here. And there was a snake, and it was Stephanie. I was with Steph, and Steph walked up and saw it and ran the other way. Yep, as she should be in the street. And I'm standing there, yeah, as she should. And I'm standing there, and I tried to grab it, but it went into the bush. And so I was like, I don't know what to do. So I walked inside and I told Stan, I said, There's a snake in the bush. He went like, oh, where? And he walked out and he reached into the bush. Snake bit him on the hand. He pulled it out. What the heck? And uh, and he was bleeding. And I said, Stan, you okay? He said, Yeah, it's just a black snake, he's saying gonna hurt me. And he walked around back and let it go in the back of the in the backyard. And I and Stephanie said, Did he kill it? Did he kill it? And I was like, you know, he took it around back, and I'm not sure what he did with it.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:14

Stan, Stan is if you're listening to this, you are my hero. Oh, dude, he's a he is amazing. Oh my gosh, that is a like the re I'm I'm scared of snakes. I was holding the garter snake when I was real little in it, and I was holding it by the tail and I was looking at its face, and you can imagine what he bit me on the nose. Oh, and so from that day forward, from that day forward, all I have etching my mind is this snake coming at my face and biting my nose. And I was screaming, and so now when I see like I'm better now, I don't run right away and scream and scream like a little schoolgirl, but man, I I yeah, if if you We have completely diverged.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:01

Well, it's a it's a misconception. It is a misconception. Well, I was hit by a truck, but I'm not afraid of trucks.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:07

So I I was hit by a car too, and I'm not afraid of cars, but I I didn't see that one coming. I don't know. There's just something about that. Like, I just like and then I see snakes and I'm like, ah man, it's so it's a wonder God cursed snakes. I mean I mean I I'm not I'm not going out and trying to find snakes.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:29

But my my son loves snakes. He's like, Dad, can we get a snake? I'm like, no. No, I would never get a pet snake. And I would never I mean, I you know, and snakes around our house, even if they're good snakes, and I've only ever seen good snakes around our house here in Newboard. Um, but I've I've three or four, and one of them actually crawled up one of the pylons on our front porch and ate bird eggs and ate small baby birds out of a nest. And um bird eggs are gonna eat your eyeballs. Well, they've got to get to it first. And that snake was ticked when I grabbed him and and yanked him out of that nest, and he hit the ground. Yeah, and I was between him and the nest, and he was trying to get back to the nest, and so I had to kill him, of course. But I have to kill all the snakes because Stephanie, yeah, Stephanie will not exist with a snake.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:16

I wouldn't even have tried to grab it. I'd have been like, kids, honey, we're out the door, like we're going out the garage and we're gonna get in the car. Uh daddy's gonna pour some gasoline on the house, and I'm lighting a match, and we're gonna cut our losses. And go live in a lean tube. Um where there's no snakes. Where there's no snakes in a lean tube. So you're going to Ireland, you're going to Ireland. But but the But the the hard part of that whole the whole process of like uh of snakes for me is just the uh like how how could you invite them in your church and hold them? Uh that's cult-like anyway, but don't do it, because getting bit by a snake, I mean, all that stuff, I just oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:59

Well maybe maybe we should say as a closing thought, there are some assumptions about churches like snake handling churches that are maybe accurate. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:08

And you should like they're crazy, avoid them. Yeah. I nowhere in scripture do they get that mandate, and that's a really bad misunderstanding of scripture if they do. It's in Mark 16. Yeah. And it's the last part of this. It's the part that's actually not in the manuscript. That's exactly right.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:23

Yeah. So you have to really be wary um of that. But all right, cool. All right, it's time for the dad joke 3000.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:30

Man, and there's so many more can I sorry to take so much time on the I know.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:34

Well, no, no, no, no, but I mean we could also church's business.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:38

We could um church isn't really necessary.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:41

We um we could uh yeah, because some people do believe church uh is a business. Is a business. Um yeah, I mean there's there's a lot, like I said, and we may come back and read. It's the gospel business. Uh you should have seen Dan how he whipped his head around when he said that.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:57

Um and the and you we mentioned uh you were you and I were talking that the church is a uh the church is a um what is it? Um is mine. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. The church isn't yours. You didn't die for it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:10

Um it's the it's Jesus' church.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:11

Yep. I don't care how much money you give to the church, it's not yours.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:14

I even and I hate to say this because this sounds so dogmatic, but like those screens that we get from Igniter Media and other places, and they'll say, Welcome to our church, and I'm always like, it's not our church.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:25

No, it's no, it's but we all we all say when people say, you know, we're come to my church, and and I I've said it too, like you know, at the church at my church that I that I go to, yeah. Um, you know, but yeah, it's it's not ours. If we can eradicate that mine in almost every aspect of our Christian life, it's gonna look so much better.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:47

Well, it'll it's just more inviting. And it's just it's just better, you know, that that God God built this church and and he's building this body of believers, and you know, it's it's uh less a build when you and when you think about it, less of a building. I mean, sure, the body of Christ at Broad Creek owns the building, but it's not the building, it's the people. Yeah, right, right.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:07

And it's good to have buy-in. Sure. I mean, we want to have buy-in, like you know, because we want to take care of what God has given us. But when we when we are unwilling to let go of the mine, uh my church, my church, uh, I give to that church. So it's it's my like what we end up doing is we end up uh getting attached to things. That's fine. Yeah. And so when change happens and you know, uh, you know, carpet has to be taken out, or pews are replaced with chairs, or you know, whatever it is, we have to build something and tear something down because I mean then people are like, Oh, you can't do that, it's my church. Yeah, it's not your church. It's not your church. Sorry, it's it's not um we're trying to do what we can to make sure the gospel is being uh continue on and forward and take care of the building that God has given us um and be good stewards of it.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:58

So well, and it's and it's hard. To understand when you've been raised and given this thought process for for decades. Yes. And um to work to change that is part of our process and what we want to do. And uh and just get it get it right and and as correct as we can. Yeah, because one of the reasons I'm here is because somebody got attached to furniture.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:17

Yeah. So yeah, that's right. Yeah. I'm grateful that I'm here.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:21

Yeah. And and I mean I look, and and I think we could both say that there were uh, you know, pro I mean we both love people from our past ministers.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:28

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:30

But I I'm I'm also I I wouldn't go back to the problems that I had in those ministries. Um problems here I I don't have to handle alone. And um, and that's one of the best parts of being a part of a a body of believers is that I'm not alone. So all right.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:45

So sorry that you didn't get to talk about your big ones.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:50

Oh, no, we I mean we did hit some of them. Yeah, we hit some of them, yeah. And and and like I said, I've got we've got look, we've been in ministry 55 years together. We get we got plenty of material to talk about at some point.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:00

Yeah, I I did have a couple girls email me uh from from my uh juniors uh with some because they listen to the podcast um and they had some suggestions because they have questions about uh that uh you know women pastors, stuff like that, and so they would like us to to look at that as topics, so we'll talk about that. And but there's a lot of stuff to cover. So yeah, we got plenty of things. So the dad joke 3000, as I was carrying it in here, it I had it up against my chest and it went off, and I heard that joke before. So this may be a repeat. So this may be one of the last times we can use the dad joke 3,000. We're gonna have to start using our own minds. I mean, we've it's only been like 13 jokes. I know. I don't know what it is. It says 3,000. I'm guessing that's not 3,000 jokes.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:42

I'm guessing that was a 2,000 and a 1,000. Right. Right. Okay, we'll find something else. All right, so here we go. What kind of dinosaur has a large vocabulary? A thesaurus. That's pretty good. Uh okay. I'll take that. That was that was great. And that was really good. Yeah, that was new. Yeah. All right. And uh here, I think we can get that off. Yes, yes, yes. Yeah, we can do that. Very well done. And of course, Dan's. The bathroom's clean.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:11

That's gonna become our standard sign-off. All right, yeah. We uh I was telling because my wife doesn't listen to the podcast. Well, mine doesn't either.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:22

We're such geeks, our wives won't listen to it.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:24

But I I have to listen to it sometimes in the car to make sure I didn't say anything stupid, which only happened once. But uh but anyway, I was listening to it and you played that. It was the the and here's Dan, and you played that intro, and my wife and I'm like, the bathroom's clean. She was like, that is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. And that's why our wives don't listen to it.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:49

That's right. Um, so who needs their judgment? That's right. That's right. Anyway, thank God for our wives. Amen. All right, guys, we're out of here this week. Thank y'all. Love y'all. Have a great week, and um see you Sunday. Yeah, we'll see you soon.