Helping or Enabling? Children don't choose to be needy.

Today, Dan and Scott (who sounds like a frog because of a cold), discuss the difference between helping and enabling.

It's easy to dismiss the needy, especially when they are acting in ways that need to end. But most often, it isn't adults who are the needy, it's children. While we understand that something like our upcoming "Back to School Bash" where we have over five hundred children pre-registered to receive backpacks and school supplies might help parents in saving them money, we know it will bless children. Children don't choose to be needy and to dismiss their need because of their parents is ignoring Christ's command to "love our neighbors as ourselves". That command doesn't come with qualifications, we may have forgotten that.

If you want to check out the pdf link to Dan's outline for this podcast, you can find that by cliking the link below. Thanks for joining the conversation!

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kGIXsTPiY5-Ar9-Leu2YOuQ-lFBgd1R4/view?usp=drive_link

Produced, edited and hosted by Scott Askew and Dan Daugherty

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:16

Oh, we're so I'm sorry. We're sitting here laughing. I didn't realize that was recording. Yeah, it was recording. I love it. My voice is terrible today, but it breaks the tension because Dan, we have a little on air sign over here and it it sits in my window. And uh it's Dan's sign, but it sits in my window and we flick flip it on. It's like a radio on air sign. And so he flipped it on and said, That makes me feel better. We are on air. Welcome to the to the Creek cast. Uh we are um excited to be able to do this this week. We missed it last week. We're sorry for that, guys. Uh faithful listeners, dear listeners, we're sorry. Yeah, that we missed it last week.

SPEAKER_02 0:53

It's it's uh it's astounding to me how um not I wouldn't say upset, but how disappointed some of you are like yeah, like we didn't have a podcast last week. What what happened? And like you see it in their face, and you just want to give them a big hug and say, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_00 1:10

I'm sorry, it's okay. We we love you. And uh we're we're thankful that you listen and we're and we're sorry when we don't get it out there. We um sometimes the week is it just gets away slammed. Yeah, and summer's funny because summer should not be every time we go through this, and we do this every year, we're like summer's not busy, and then you get the summer you're like, oh my gosh, in the world, man, and uh it's like school's out, excuse me, school's out and everything goes crazy and stuff. Anyway, forgive me because my voice is horrible today. So I'm gonna let Dan talk most of the time. And um, we'll just we'll do what we're which nobody wants to do. Oh yes, they do. Yes, they do. Yes, they do. Uh we want to hear it. We um we were talking, and this week uh is the last week of July. August 1st is Saturday, and that means it is our back to school bash. And we have seen a lot of good things come out of back to school bash. And this year we have 500 pre-registered um uh students who are gonna come. Yeah, uh, we feel like we know there'll be more. Um, we also know that everybody who's pre-registered probably won't show up. Right. So there will be room for walk-ins, but we're we're looking to have what, 1,200, 1,400 people here maybe. Yeah. Um, so it's a big weekend and it requires a lot of volunteers. So if you're listening to this today on Wednesday, July 29th, and you're like, man, I need to go volunteer. Yes, you do need to come volunteer. I know we could definitely use you. Yeah, and uh we'll we'll plug you in. So uh yeah, so we're gonna talk a little bit today about helping versus enabling, and we thought it was it was pretty good to talk about that because a lot of times I think we get accused of um doing things for people that they could do for themselves. But um scripture's clear that we are to uh help and that we are to uh do what we can to love people, and so yeah. So um Dan has actually uh done the done the legwork this week. He's uh created a PDF and I'm sitting here looking at it, and I will connect it to the show notes so you'll be able to click a link and go get the PDF. But I think this is forms a great basis for us to talk about today. He's pulled out some scriptures and stuff. So uh Dan, why don't you get us started with uh helping versus enabling?

SPEAKER_02 3:18

Really the heart of this is uh um and you can't you can't read too in too much into these things because it's social media and everybody is a um social media warrior behind the keyboard. Um but uh you know just seeing some comments and stuff this week about you know um people should be able to buy their own school supplies and the church shouldn't have to provide and you know that type of stuff.

SPEAKER_00 3:46

Nothing from our church, no, nothing from our church.

SPEAKER_02 3:48

No, it's just people in the in the generalized region. Um it was really especially came after WITN shared the article or the the video that Nina did uh on on the news. Anyway, uh long story short, it got us thinking, like, you know, let's talk about what it means to help people and versus enabling somebody.

SPEAKER_01 4:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:09

Um and scripture's clear uh on both. Uh, and there's really a nuanced perspective in scripture um on generosity and uh distinguishing between that and supporting um uh genuine people and fostering uh dependence, and then uh this idea of enabling people uh when they're not being what they're supposed to be. Um consistently and constantly, the Bible talks about uh this personal responsibility of work and providing and having a foundation um uh as it being foundational to your human dignity as a person, we are created to work. Right. That's just the way it is. God has created us. Uh what was what was Adam's responsibility in the garden?

SPEAKER_00 4:57

It was to work the garden, it was to manage the animals, it was to manage the earth, uh everything that he knew of at that point was and I've always felt that if that was his responsibility before the fall, that when heaven comes, when when things are restored to the way they should be, we will have work to do.

SPEAKER_02 5:15

Yes, we'll have work to do. That's right. Yep, yep. Because that's that got God is a God of work. That's right. Um and not not meaning that like you know, he's got a nine to five, but uh he's working all the time. Um, you know, our idea of work is is is kind of twofold, that that we work uh so that we can live. Um, but we also um we also need to distinguish that that our our work is is meant for the physical, not the spiritual. That's right. We're not working for grace, we're not working for salvation, uh, but we're designed to work as as as if we are trying to live and trying to, and then we're supposed to do it with with the idea of pleasing God. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 5:59

And so first Corinthians, I don't know if you had that in the notes, 1 Corinthians 10, was it 31? Yeah, I don't think. Whether we eat or drink or whatever we do, we do everything for the glory of God.

SPEAKER_02 6:08

And so um, so we have this uh at the same time of helping people, or at the same time as being being workers, we have to have this uh calling that believers have to sacrifice for the care and the needs of others. That's right. And so um, so how do you distinguish those two? How do you how do you have good discernment about when you help somebody, whether uh uh whether it's it's for food or or financial or whatever, that you are excuse me, enabling them or are you actually helping them? Right. And so so what I've done on the show notes is you you we've kind of I kind of give two categories. So I'm gonna talk about some scripture uh that deals with personal accountability. Um and then I'm gonna talk about some scripture that has uh that demands of generosity towards others. Um and so um and so basically the principle of personal accountability uh really comes down to um uh where you've you see it through all through scripture. Um Paul's instruments those who are unwilling to work uh not uh that they shouldn't eat. Um and that's Second Thessalonians 3 10 through 12, which says, For even when we were with you, we would give you this command. If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat. Um and so you you have this this uh instruction here from Paul that I think is really uh comes all the way from from God's word throughout the Old Testament, too, that that you have to you have to be willing um to do what's necessary to to get what what you get. Um uh and God and God blesses you in that way. And so and so we we've talked about this all the time. We talk about how God blesses people with with finances and he blesses people with well, really what he's blessing us with is the ability to obtain those things. That's right. Um, and so you know, a good job or a good education or whatever, God gives you the brain power, he gives you the mobility, gives you all these things um that that uh and and we which we squander all the time. Oh yeah. Um yeah, and so he's a provider in that way. And so Paul's talking, talking to the the church in Thessalonica saying that if you're unwilling to work, yeah, you won't eat. That's right. Meaning that like there's there's this there's this um uh blatant disregard for the way we've been created when you're unwilling to work. Yep. Yep. Um, and then he encourages people to work quietly to support themselves. Um, and going on in that same passage, he says uh in verse 11, for we hear that some among you walk in idleness, not busy at work, but busy bodies, which is different. Yeah, uh, now such persons we command and encourage in the Lord Jesus Christ to do their work quietly and to earn their own living.

SPEAKER_01 8:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:57

Um, you know, I can't help but think of the social media influencers. Um, you know, and and and nothing against trying to make a living in that, in that that realm, but um doesn't that fly in the face of what we were, you know, just told to do here? Yeah. And uh I don't know, it's just kind of weird for me how uh that that's people's entire jobs.

SPEAKER_00 9:21

Yeah, we live in a world though where unfortunate unfortunately social media has allowed us to become our own stars and our own idols, and and um it's really a slippery slope with it when it comes down to it. Because I know some of those people probably work hard at their videos and they do that, but again, it's all it you know, it's for it's for it to look at me. Yeah, I hate to say it's for entertainment because I I I think it's more oh well I get to see what this person's life is like. It's more like a mini documentary that we watch on that person, then we judge whether my life is better or not for that person. Right. If my life's better, then I feel good about myself. If my life's not better, or it's not as fun, or it's not as good, then I don't feel as good.

SPEAKER_02 10:03

Yeah, so but how many influencer influencers that that's their job that let you see the bad? Oh no, I mean you know what I mean. And so like you end up walking away going, man, my life is crap.

SPEAKER_00 10:14

Yeah, social media is 99.9%. These are the best three seconds of my life. Right.

SPEAKER_02 10:20

So yeah, yeah. So so this instruction Paul gives to the church in Thessalonica is that you know, if you're unwilling to work, you won't eat. And we need to be people who work quietly to support ourselves. We don't have to make a big deal about what we do. I there's people in in our church that I have and that I've known almost for five years now that I still don't know what they do for a living. Yeah. They work quietly. Yes. Yeah, yes.

SPEAKER_00 10:42

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 10:43

And I'm not I'm just not just gonna ask. I mean, I mean, it's part of me is curious, but like I I in a but a part of me is like, I I appreciate that. Yeah, I do too. You know, where I'm like, you know, they're here, they're serving, they're doing, but it's like they don't make a big deal about who they are and what they do. And um, I don't know, I just like that. So uh believers are also urged to work with their own hands so that they may be independent and not dependent on others. We take that from the the first letter to the church in Thessalonica, uh uh chapter four, verses eleven through twelve. He says, And to aspire to live quietly and to mind your own affairs and to work with your hands as we instructed you, so that you may walk properly before outsiders and be dependent on no one. Yep. That should be the heart of every person, every believer, is that we aspire to live a this quiet life um and to manage our own affairs and to work with our own hands, um, uh, and and to not not make it seem like we've we've got to have people supporting us in that. Um uh and and you may be, you know, there's some of you might be saying, Amen, amen. That's you know, we shouldn't, you know, I'm gonna get to the other side here in a moment. Uh Proverbs repeatedly warns that laziness produces poverty while diligence creates wealth. That's Proverbs 10, 4 through 5. And that the sluggard's desires go unfulfilled when the diligent are well supplied. Proverbs 13, 4. Uh so this emphasis on self-sufficiency is is a is a huge narrative in in scripture. Um, and it protects both that that dignity that you have as an individual and it it also affects the community health.

SPEAKER_01 12:26

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 12:26

Um when people are doing this collectively uh or independently and they they live in a collective which we're called to live in, um, you you you actually like like you support the collective better.

SPEAKER_01 12:38

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 12:39

Um and what I mean the collective is is is specifically like think about it as a as a church, um, as people working individually quietly for the Lord, uh taking care of our own affairs and our own needs. Um we actually make a stronger church. That's right. Because when you think in the in that way of like, I'm doing everything that God has asked me to do, um, I feel blessed by the Lord, I whatever, um, you're willing to give that blessing into the collective, the church, right, which enables us to take care of other people, which is what we're gonna start talking about now. Um, and so uh there's a point um where there are there are times and and and I'm gonna speak from personal uh experience, um my parents I believe brought a lot of our poverty on themselves through drug addiction, through just whatever. Right. Um and we still received help. Um and if I look back, I can probably think that a handful of times where my parents were enabled from people. Um but I didn't control that as a child. That's right. And so when I look back or I talk to people that I know helped us, they weren't helping my parents. Right. They were helping me, they were helping my sisters.

SPEAKER_00 14:08

And I think that that changes a lot. Well, you know, when you when you're able because kids are the ones who suffer through this. And so if you're if you can help, if you have to help parents to help the kids, you just gotta make sure that the help gets to the kids in some way. That's right. And um, because kids aren't choosing that. Right. I mean that they're they're they're just there and and it's not fair to them.

SPEAKER_02 14:30

Yeah, yeah, that they have no no say in the matter. No, so to punish a child because the parent refuses to work. Yeah. Or to punish a child because the parent is not a good steward of what God has given them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:42

Which is what makes the back to school badge so beautiful to me, because these kids come in and we let them kind of shop for their own stuff. Yes. So a kid walks in and he loves Lightning McQueen, and there's a there's a Lightning McQueen backpack, and man, that kid's eyes lighted up. Oh my gosh. And he gets to walk out. And yeah, maybe the par I mean, honestly, I mean, I don't know who walks through those doors and they're drug addicts or they're or they're just, you know, they they just refuse to work, or maybe they're working their butts off and they just can't make ends meet. Right. Or maybe they're fine and they just chose to avail themselves of this. Whatever it is, the kid is blessed for it. Right. And yeah, the parent saves money, but man, the blessings that the kids get from being able to kind of shop their own stuff and get cool things. I mean, that man, you can't you can't put prices on that.

SPEAKER_02 15:28

Because because what what's happening is uh and I get I just get chills thinking about it. Because I uh my my son even said, Dad, it's great that you're wanting to help, but you're you're not really helping the parents. And I looked at him and I said, I'm not trying to help the parents. Nope. I'm trying to help the child. Yep. So when that child looks at what's been given to them, maybe it creates a different perspective in them and then it changes a generation. That's right. We're trying to change generations right here.

SPEAKER_00 15:56

It's not just and it's a slow process. It is. I I've always told people you don't understand when you're trying to change if you're trying to change parents and their kids all at the same time, you can't really do it all at the same time. It takes 20 years. Yeah. Because there's a gap. Right. And that gap in between the age of the child and the parent is the gap that you have to cover. Right. And so as they age, that gap continues to go. So you've got to cover parents and discipleship and cover kids in love and discipleship so that once the kid gets to 2025, that gap is gone. Yep. And if you don't do that, then you're gonna have another gap.

SPEAKER_02 16:30

Yeah, it's just another. Yep. And it creates such a um vicious cycle.

SPEAKER_01 16:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:35

Uh at that point. That's right. And so we we understand that we're made to work, but yet we have to look at what scripture equally demands, and that's generosity.

unknown 16:44

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 16:45

Uh generosity towards those genuinely unable to help themselves. Yeah. Um, and so that's where the kids come in. Yep. Um, and and even some parents. Um we we meet parents who uh have uh physical um disabilities that are not able to work, but you know that they would work in a heartbeat if they could.

SPEAKER_00 17:05

Yeah. There's some parents taking care of special needs kids who can't work. Yes, yes, and and they're may they're doing their best to honestly survive every day. Yes, yes, and guys, and I'm gonna say this, and I know this may be a little off topic, but I was reading something this morning about um parents, and um, it said most parents' goal is to get their kids out of the house so that they can be self-supportive and they can live their own lives, and so eventually the parents can have grandkids and they can lie down and and rest in peace knowing they did a good job. For a special needs parent, your goal is to never die. Right. And when you really think about that, right, you know, and so what's gonna happen to your child? Exactly. What's gonna happen to my child? And we have people that we interact with on a weekly basis that that's their fear that they're not gonna be here one day. And when we help those kids, we're we're helping the parent understand that there are people who will take care of their kids maybe when they're gone. And it may not be us, but it may be someone else, but that their kids can be taken care of. We're you know, the comments online were just they were they were horrific and and just just a standard of ignorance that that I can't I can't even I I can fathom because I understand the world, but at the same time, it's um it's just sickening, but they don't understand. And I'm so glad you brought it up that yeah, we're not our goal isn't to help parents, our goal is to help children, um, and those who can't help themselves, and kids all will almost all whether it's special needs or just a young kid that falls into that category.

SPEAKER_02 18:33

That's right. Yeah, and so so we help those who generally can't help themselves. That's right. Uh when someone becomes poor, um it's the believers that need to open their hands and to meet the needs of of that. That's right. Um and and to give freely. Uh scripture is not scripture is never uh addressing uh as as we give uh to give reluctantly. Right. Um, even in the old testament, because Jesus doesn't teach a tithe. And if you want to argue with me about that, I'll argue with you all day about that. I don't know for us to argue because it doesn't exist in the world. He doesn't teach a tithe, he teaches to give generously and to give sacrificially, that's right. Uh in a ch with a cheerful heart. But even through the Old Testament laws of giving, it was never set up to be a reluctant thing. It was it was to give in a in a genuine way, right? Um, and and to be free in the giving. Uh, we know that from Deuteronomy chapter 15, 7 through 11. I'm not going to read it because it's it's pretty long, but it's talking about how the believers must open the hands and meet the needs freely of people that and with a willing heart that need the help. That's right. Uh landowners, uh, we see this in Leviticus 19, 9 through 10. Landowners were commanded to leave portions of their harvest for the poor, yeah, and for people who are exiled and sojourners and uh visitors in their land.

SPEAKER_00 19:54

Yeah, Jesus and the disciples get in trouble from eating from that um on the Sabbath. Yes. And uh from that direct command of from leaving the leaving grain in the field.

SPEAKER_02 20:03

Right, and and so and so God in the old testament laws found it um good for people to be generous towards people who weren't unable. Yeah. Uh in and what how dare we make an assumption? We don't know how people got poor. No. We don't know how the people got homeless. And we and we we can assume all we want, that's alcohol, it's drugs. Sure, it might be. Large portion of it might be. It might be absolutely yeah, it could it could have been disease, right? And they received help for the disease and um could never pay back that that bill and it cost them their house. It cost, you know, we don't know. No, and so we are not to judge those that we don't know because really what it comes down to if if we're honest with ourselves, it comes down to our own selfishness.

SPEAKER_00 20:57

It does.

SPEAKER_02 20:58

This is mine, yeah, and if I'm gonna give you what's mine, I need to know that you're not A B C.

SPEAKER_00 21:04

And the crazy thing is it was it's never really yours. No. I mean, and that I know that's a big concept, and we talk about it, and everybody's like, oh, okay, yeah, it's all the Lord's, but it is true. It's not absolutely true, it's not ours.

SPEAKER_02 21:17

And it's a heart condition, right?

SPEAKER_00 21:18

Right, that's right. Well, it goes back, I know you didn't read Deuteronomy 15, but that verse 7 it says, If among you one of your brothers should become poor in any one of your towns within your land that the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not harden your heart or shut your hand against your poor brother. It doesn't it doesn't qualify why they're poor. It doesn't say there's a reason why they're poor. It says you will not harden your heart and shut your hand against him. Right. And that's that's a command. That's a command. When we don't obey commands, it's called sin. So we have to we have to be careful starts with an S and rhymes with N.

SPEAKER_02 21:51

Sin. Yeah, it it's it's so it's so vital that we under I mean, I I've done a lot of inner city um work um in Syracuse, New York, Omaha, Nebraska. The slums of Piedras Negres, Mexico. So I've been in a lot of Native American pla ministry that I've done over the years as well. And what I've discovered is that if you go into it thinking that you already know why they're in their situation, you're going to miss the point God's trying to teach you. And so we've got to be very careful. And I used to go in and think, you know, like, you know, like Native American uh population, you know, like we give them land. What the heck? Well, let's talk about history here a little bit. You know, it's like it's like really we we allow them. No, no, no. Man, it's just so hard to look at the poor and and make that judgment because we're never called to make that judgment. Now you know, like I have a brother that I will not help anymore. Right. There has to be a line. There's a line because I know he has brought it upon himself, he does the things he does, and he refuses to leave that lifestyle, those choices, and so therefore I can never I cannot enable him any longer. Yeah, yeah. Because I I've done it for too long, and it's it's he's never he's never found himself out of it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:20

So but you said it the right way. You you're not you you can't help you didn't say I can't help him any longer. You said I can't enable him anyway. Because there is an enablement factor to it. That's right. That's right. We have to make sure that we're not enabling. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 23:32

Yep. So the the system that God put in in Leviticus 19 with landowners and their command. Um uh in Leviticus 19, nine uh through ten just says, When you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not reap your field right up to its edge, neither shall you gather the gleanings after your harvest, you shall not strip your vineyard bare, neither shall you gather the fallen grapes of your vineyard, you shall leave them for the poor and for the sojourner. I am the Lord your God. This system was provided as an opportunity to for work rather than just mere handouts.

SPEAKER_01 24:05

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 24:06

Because what it had what happens, a poor person had to go get it. That's right. It wasn't laid out in a basket for them.

SPEAKER_00 24:11

They could but it was a way of helping them. That's right. And he had to winnow it. And so, you know, you had to do it in your hands and it took work. And that and it's a lot of it's not like you're gonna winnow just one piece of grain and get enough to feed you. You had to work.

SPEAKER_02 24:25

Think about the grapes on the ground. I mean, you how how they had to go through all of those grapes to make sure that they weren't eating the rotten ones. That's right. You know, it it it cost them something.

SPEAKER_00 24:34

Yeah, and that's what it should do. Right, yeah, right. I mean, I've known look, I've I've and not to get off topic, but we've both known people who work so hard at begging for money from churches and from people that if they got an honest job and worked that hard, they'd be so successful that it would be crazy. But instead, they choose to live this life because they feel like, you know, when I did that big paper about um homeless people in Washington, D.C. years and years ago, I did it when I was in school, and um, and they found that many of the people there were by choice. Uh like 75% of them were by choice because they said, I don't want anybody in command over me. Right. And um, you know, I don't want to have to pay taxes to government. I don't want the government to know where I am, I don't want this, I don't want that. And while, you know, we go, oh my gosh, you know, that's terrible, enabling them to to to do that, you know, we want to keep them safe and we want to keep them warm and we want to honestly we want them to keep them fed. But if you choose to be in that situation, yeah, there I hate to say it, but there has to be a repercussion.

SPEAKER_02 25:34

Yeah, I I I don't have a lot of sympathy for that.

SPEAKER_00 25:37

No, I don't either. And but now if somebody's homeless because of a horrible event, right, then I want to help that person. Right. And uh, I mean, we've got a per we've got people here who've asked us why can't we use our land to build a homeless community, you know, on our land. And I and I get that. I really it's not as that's really easily said and really hard to do because of everything, everything we have to do to do that. But um, you know, is that something that that maybe we could look at? I I don't know. I don't know how, and that's the thing with discovering how to help people, right? Sometimes it changes and sometimes it morphs, and you got to look at the heart of the person.

SPEAKER_02 26:10

So right, yeah. No, and that that's good. I uh we met those in Hawaii um uh when we were there, uh we were there for 15 days with visiting my sisters and and brother-in-law um 10 years ago, 11 years ago. Anyway, um, and and we met homeless people and they said, Yeah, we we chose. We wanted to come to Hawaii, and we knew that we weren't we didn't have a job, we knew we were gonna sleep on the beach, and that's just what they do. And they make they make good money panhandling, yeah. And so they they chose to do it that way.

SPEAKER_01 26:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:41

I I I don't I don't want to hear you, I don't want to hear your sob story in that case, you know, because there's actual people who are forced into it that never wanted to be there.

SPEAKER_00 26:50

Right. I want to help those people. And instead of differentiating, most of the time the world will just lump them all together and say, well, we're looking to help them because they choose to be there, and that's not the case. Not all of them.

SPEAKER_02 26:59

Not all of them, no, no. Uh was doing some inner city work in Omaha, Nebraska. Um, I was probably 20 years old, 21. And uh we were feeding uh just hot dogs and stuff with a church down there. And I was talking to homeless guys, and this one guy came up, he's a he's like, Yeah, five bucks. I said, um uh, yeah. And he goes, I'm not gonna lie to you, I just want to go get a beer. And I'm like, uh, you know, and and he and he told me, he's like, he's like, I had I never have any desire to own my own home anymore. I don't want to rent. He goes, I have a comfortable place to sleep. You know, I and I'm just going, man, you can really he was capable. Yeah. But the purpose was left. Right. But the per yeah, the per purpose is left him, you know. And so it so even in that situation, like I I had to check my heart and say, okay, do I give him the five bucks or do I or do I give him hope? And so I chose to give him hope. Yeah. And I said, I'm not gonna give you five dollars for beer. But I said, you know, I want to share with you the hope that I have. And it didn't change his heart. I mean, but I had to tell him.

SPEAKER_00 28:13

Yeah. Well, we have a responsibility on our hand to do what we feel led to do right. So at least he was honest with you, though.

SPEAKER_02 28:19

I mean, yeah, I and I appreciate that. And I'm not gonna lie, there was one point in Portland uh when my wife and I were there at the Portland Saturday market where a guy had a sign and it said, I'm I I just need I need a couple bucks for a beer. I'm not gonna lie. And so I gave him a couple bucks. Um, because I appreciate the honesty. Yeah, I mean, you gotta be. So call me an enabler, but you know, I I was like, you know, that's that's pretty honest. Uh Christians are also called to bear one another's burdens. Uh, and and when we do that, uh Galatians 6, 2 through 5 tells us we fulfill the law of Christ. So within the church, first, right, right. Every one of these contextually, uh, with the exception of I would probably say the Levitical law of the harvest. Every one of these contextually, even then it probably is, has to do with your own. Right. Has to do with first. First. First yours. Yes, yours. And so as a church, we are commanded to take care of each other first. And then after we've taken care of the needs of others, we see this in Acts chapter 2, 42 through 47. Yeah. When the church got together, they met and they they daily and they they broke bread together, they sold fields, and they gave the proceeds to those who were in need.

SPEAKER_01 29:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:39

And those who were in need were among them.

SPEAKER_01 29:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:41

It was their church family.

SPEAKER_01 29:42

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 29:43

And so uh there should never be a church family where you have people in desperate need constantly um without the actual help of the church. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:53

We've changed it now as a church. We we require people to fill out a form And there should be and there should be. And um, but it it was before we had that, people would call and ask and say, Hey, do you help people? And and um and and my answer was, well, we take care of the people inside our church. And what church do you go to? Because I, you know, I always feel like if they go to a church, I'm it's better for me to make a phone call to that minister and say, Hey, you got a family who's in need. 98% of the time it was I don't go to a church. And the other part of the time, they didn't, they said, Well, I go to a church, but I don't want to tell you which one. And so if that was the case, I said, Well, you need to go to your church. Your church should be taken care of you. Yes. And um, and since you don't and and the other side was if you don't go to a church anywhere, then then we're limited in the way we can help you. Yes. And and that was just the way it's doesn't mean we won't help. Right, right, right. But we're limited in the way. And and that was and that was just to set up the understanding that, you know, if they're calling for $500, uh just five hundred dollars in cash, that's we're limited. We're not gonna give you trash. That's right. And so that, you know, uh trying to trying to help people is is hard because you don't want to judge them, but at the very same time, you can't just give people willy-nilly, you know, everything in the world. As we talk, our our homeless ministry is preparing food and they're probably out by now delivering to the people on the streets. And some of these people are are veterans who have have chosen to live on their own. Um, they've been kicked out of places here in New Bern, and they've they've gotten new tents and stuff, and they try to stay off in the woods and stay away from everybody. But the homeless ministry tries to take care of people, and really it's not a ministry of the church, it's a gathering of people who go to Broad Creek who on their own bring food and bring everything, put it together on their own and go out and serve because of Bob and Mary's um ministry.

SPEAKER_01 31:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:43

And so um, but they don't judge, they they don't ask people, well, why are you why are you here and what are you doing? Right. Um, they move past all that and they see the person and they give them food and we should see the person, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:55

Yeah. So yeah, and and I I think that's so so vital that we we we we understand the the concept of seeing the person, yeah, and not necessarily the sin right away. That's right. Uh, you know, or or whatever it is. Yeah, the sin in all aspects. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 32:11

Uh once once the relationship is built, once we once we have that ability to deal with it. Right. But nah, in the beginning, you just you just love the person.

SPEAKER_02 32:18

You love the person and you show it. I mean, we have same-sex couples that come to our back to school bash. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:24

Yeah. And we serve them. Yeah. We talked about it this morning in our Wednesday morning group, and um, we were studying 1 Corinthians 6, and he basically the question was because he says the practice of homosexuality. And um, and you know, the question came up about judgment of homosexuals. And I said, Well, he's not talking about someone who feels this way yet doesn't practice, he's talking about the practice of it, right? You know, the actual the orthopraxy of it, the you know, and actually doing that. And um, and I tried to differentiate that and I said, Look, we love people. I said, We don't have to love their actions. That's right. But if you've got someone who leans towards homosexuality and they they are trying hard not to practice that, or even someone who who's I and I use the the idea of an alcoholic or or someone addicted to pornography or whatever, you you love that person, but you try to help them, you know, walk towards the tribal and towards Bible teaching. But oftentimes it's just easier to judge. And we do that with people who are homeless. We just judge and we say, you know what, I'm just gonna judge this and be done with it. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 33:28

So we we've got to be careful with that. We are to bear one another's burdens and fulfill the law of Christ, is what the churches and we're to help the weak through diligent work. Um uh and sorry, and helping the weak through uh diligent work reflects what Christ is teaching. Right. Uh it actually uh gives uh it gives us idea and it's Acts 2 20, 35, where it says, Um uh in all things I have shown you that by working hard this way, we must help the weak and remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he himself said it is more blessed to give than to receive. Did Paul, I'm not looking at did Paul say that? Uh it might have been. Yeah. Um wondering if Luke's quoting Paul there. See that it might be.

SPEAKER_00 34:15

I just lost it. I was just yeah, Paul speaks to the official.

SPEAKER_02 34:20

So um, so yeah, it's it's uh, you know, as we work hard as as Christians and as believers, um, through our hard work, uh, we reflect that teaching by giving. That's right. Yeah. And so by giving what God has blessed us with, we fulfill that teaching. Yeah. Um, but here's the tension that revolves it resolves uh uh in distinguishing between the need and the unwillingness. That's what we have to do. We have to we have to distinguish, we have to have good um judgment, discernment in what is actually a need and and versus an unwillingness of being and and then even in the unwillingness, I have to draw the line of the parents may be unwilling, but the child has the need.

SPEAKER_00 35:05

And that's and that's so important, guys. If you don't understand anything else from our podcast today, understand that that that the you don't have to agree with us helping uh adults in the back to school batch. We're not helping adults, we are trying to bring some dignity and some hope and some love to kids. The kids it's just they can't get here on their own, so their parents are gonna bring right and yes, it may free money up for the parents to do something else, but that's on the parents. That's on the parents, that's not us, that's between them and God. We are I I mean, what I really hope is that, you know, five, six, seven years from now, or even this year, that a kid goes, Man, I went to that church and you know, I heard the name Jesus, and they gave me a cool Lightning McQueen backpack. And I I had a great experience and somebody loved me and cared about me, and that matters. Right. And that's what it's like.

SPEAKER_02 35:52

But it's about touches that that may affect the future. That's right. So that's right. Um, and and in part of the the need and uh the the need versus the unwillingness, um uh we have to go back to what Paul writes Timothy in 1 Timothy 5 8, he says, but if anyone does not provide for his relatives and especially for members of his household, he has denied them, uh denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever. Again, a child does not control that, but the parent does. But how cool is it that we in the process of helping children, we get to minister and show parents there's a different way. Yeah. And we get to help them see the truth and hear the truth through the conversations they have from with our staff or our uh our volunteers. Um, it's so, so, uh so incredibly um generous of God to use us to do that. Absolutely. Um, and so I I I look at it as yeah, uh, we're helping the kids, but we are affecting the the parents. Yeah. Uh I think last year we had a a woman come who had nine foster kids. And she's just an older lady who um has a heart for for the the kids who are in the system. Yeah. And uh and she she called us and said, I can you accommodate us? And we said, Absolutely. You know, and here's a woman who's who's trying to uh and we we got to know her a bit, um, but she's trying to do her best in helping children with when she doesn't have a lot. Right. And so I have no problems helping somebody like that. Not at all. Uh we had we had a couple come in uh last year, uh this two years ago, we had a couple come in and you could tell mom and dad were strung out. Yeah, I remember that. I mean, you could you could just look at them. I I I know that look, I grew up with that look.

SPEAKER_01 37:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:44

Um, and but the kids were as happy as could be, and mom and dad were pretty checked out.

SPEAKER_01 37:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:49

Uh, but the whole time, um, I can't remember who which one of our volunteers had them, but they were taking them around, helping them, you know, helping the kids get their supplies. Mom and dad are checked out. And then uh at the end, I overheard the conversation of uh, you know, uh, you know, we we love you. Yeah, I and it was just and like and like their eyes kind of opened, like what?

unknown 38:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:11

Um, man, even even if that's all they got, yeah, those parents of my kids got school supplies, uh, we can start school now, and I heard I love you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:21

Well, it's huge. And I think if we're if we're if we're able to say that we're blessing parents, it might be in the idea that while we do hear thank yous and God bless you and all these things, that it might be the kid who goes home and looks at his stuff and then goes back into mom and gives her a hug and says, Thank you so much for for this. And the mom then has to confront the idea that, wait a minute, all I did was drove on there, registered, and God provided this. And that is a I mean, that's incredible as well. So it's not about a it is about helping the kids, but it's not, and it's not again, it's not about us necessarily helping the parents, but if we don't get thanked for it and a parent gets thanked for it, then the parent, I hope most of the time has to go, yeah. They have to deal with it. Yes. And if we don't, if we can't change minds, we do this with sermons, we do this with lessons. I want people dealing with it. Yeah, I want I want them to walk away from what we teach and preach and go, gosh, I gotta chew on this. You know, this is something that's yeah, I've actually got to do something with this impression right. I can't just let it go. Right. It has to be something. I've come in contact with something I can't handle. Right. And that's what we want. We want the phone calls in the next few weeks to be, you know, I I can't deal with this. I don't know what I'm doing. Yeah. Well, let's explain grace. You know, let's talk about faith. Let's talk about hope. And and um, those are the conversations that we hope to have. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:43

And and and and we do this all with with with no expectations of these people showing up on Sunday morning. Oh, sure. Yeah. Uh we we do this with uh with the heart that um Christ is glorified first and foremost in everything that we're doing on Saturday. Uh secondly, that the child is able to start the school year successfully. That's right. And thirdly, that these family will know without a shadow of a doubt, that when things get rough, that Broad Creek is a place that they can turn to. And then they can go. Even if it's just Broad Creek in their mind. Yeah. We know it's Jesus. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. We're not doing this for Broad Creek. But if they if us helping them causes them later to say, I need to contact that church again, that's right, and we have the opportunity to minister to them and point them to the person who actually is in charge of it.

SPEAKER_00 40:40

Yeah. It's worth it. Yeah. Well, I know yesterday, just to give our Broad Creek folks an idea, Kevin, we were talking about how many kids from Broad Creek had signed up. We have a lot of kids at Broad Creek. Our children's ministry is really blowing up and and it's doing incredible. And um our just like our jars of clay, our nursery, they are just for those of you who are parents who listen to this, if you have a toddler, um, they are rearranging the nursery today so that we can separate out our um two and two's and threes uh from the birth to one so that nursery downstairs can be birthed to one and and the twos and threes can have a room to their own. Because we had so many kids in our nursery during second service last week. It was it was crazy. It was like we were, yeah, that was nuts. And so it's awesome. It's absolutely awesome, but at the same time, we're having to make changes. But the but the point that that um I I think what was I gonna get to? Um, the point that I was trying to make, I think Kevin was on the list. Oh, yeah, thanks. Kevin, Kevin was on the list. He got to um registration number 230 something before he found a Broad Creek uh kid. Yeah. Think about that for a second. Right. I mean, that's that's almost half the list until he ran across the first Broad Creek. And they were done, I I I guess they were done either by last name or whatever, but still that's that's incredible that he went through 230 and didn't recognize a name.

SPEAKER_01 42:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:00

Um, so the impact that we get to have uh that God can have through us is incredible. Yeah, yeah, it is, it is.

SPEAKER_02 42:07

So genuine compassion requires wisdom.

SPEAKER_00 42:09

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 42:10

Okay. Uh supporting those uh unable to work while encouraging personal responsibilities and uh of those who are actually capable of it. Yeah. Um that's that's what we've got to keep in mind as we help people. We are we are promoting hopefully, uh, and I know we do, uh, you know, uh, how can how can we, you know, how can you better this situation? Um, you know, whether it's um we get we we don't get as much as we used to, but we used to get a lot of uh people stopping by and asking for financial help, uh whether it's pay a bill or gas or food or whatever. Um, but we always took the opportunity to to talk with them. Um I know in my my ministry in Idaho, like we uh I would I would offer um to scholarship them for the Dave Ramsey um financial piece, um, that type of thing, you know, offering a way out of of that cycle. Yeah, um that's empowerment, right? That's empowerment, that's not an enabled. And so that that we've got to be able to and and guys, there's times where I I've needed help. Yeah. And I I mean I work my tail off. Yeah. And there's some times that I've I've still needed help. And so I've been appreciative of those who've been able to help. Um, and so, but you know, we've got to have that that ability to encourage personal responsibility of those who are capable of it while balancing the the ability to help people who are unable.

SPEAKER_01 43:29

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 43:30

Um, and so this balance actually uh prevents both a hard-heartedness and and the harm that comes when assistance removes incentive um to provide and for their provisions and their own self care self care. Um, it's a balance. And I think I think we're we're doing a good job trying to balance that. Um I think our our missions budget uh is doing a good job trying to balance all of that. Um and and uh again. Again a child cannot make that decision. So when we're helping a family, at the end of the day, we're helping those children and trying to be an example to the parents.

SPEAKER_00 44:16

And that's why we say when we talk about hungry children, you know, one in four children in Pamico County don't know where their next meal's coming from. And when we talk about stuff like that, that's not that the child's sitting on a couch going, Well, I'm lazy, I'm not working, so therefore I don't know where my next meal's coming. No, they they literally live in fear that they're gonna go to bed tonight hungry. Hungry. Yeah. And that's not on them. Right. That their children. That's not their responsibility. So we have to make sure that we are doing what we can to impact and affect those type of situations the best we can. And we're not perfect at it yet. No. Um and we may never be perfect at it, but we want to tackle it and we want to do the best we can.

SPEAKER_02 44:56

We're gonna try to do even if even if we make a mistake, yeah, we're gonna make a mistake trying to err on grace. Oh, absolutely. We always err on grace. I mean, we can't we can't err on the other side of the phone. So so if you're listening to this and and you've had a hard heart about it, um, or if you've read the comments, because many of you follow um our Facebook page and then which hasn't been on our Facebook page, but it was, you know, on the WITN page. If you've read those negative comments, um, you have a choice to make. You can you can agree with that or you can say, you know what? Nope, we're doing the complete opposite. We're trying to help these kids. Um, and we're excited. Uh, we really are excited. Every year we're we've grown in this. Yeah. Um, and uh there's really cool potential next year um as as we face it again. Uh and so we're we're still praying through a bunch of stuff for that, um, which you know as we figure things out, you all know. Um, but you know, there God's doing something here. And yeah, um, we've we've actually um I got contacted from uh uh an administrator at a at a school in our county um who who said you know Broad Creek is setting a and the example for the other churches of what what we should be doing. That's awesome. Um and so uh and again um it's not to toot our own horns. It is not to do that at all.

SPEAKER_00 46:13

Well, and we can't do it without you uh who's listening. I mean, we can't we can't do it what we do without you.

SPEAKER_02 46:19

And so yeah, and and it's really guys, it's not Broad Creek. No it's it's faithful people listening to God's leading. Yep. And so and that's what we want to do, is we just want to, and if that means we can help empower another church to do it, I mean, whatever it is, yeah, it's not about us. No, and and that's what we got to keep in mind. But we're excited uh to see what God will do. Um, and again, it's always been my prayer, and it continues to be my prayer that God would use even me. Yeah, or God would use even you. Yeah, um, because in our imperfections, we don't deserve at all any of this. But God is using us anyway, and so um, I'm just so grateful for that. He's doing He's doing incredible things.

SPEAKER_00 47:02

So, yeah, it's cool. That's good stuff. Well, I um I really appreciate all the effort that Dan and Nina and others put in and the team that puts into back to school bash. And like he said, it's not a it's not a solo effort, it's not a and it's God blessing us to do these incredible things. So we hold our we hold our hope in him and um uh we we place all our faith in him to do incredible things and show us how to reach people uh for his great name. I do want to mention before we get to the dad joke, um, we have settled on a time and date for our um for our third service, which is gonna be on Saturdays, that's September 12th at 4 p.m. Yeah, is when that will start. Saturday, September 12th at 4 p.m. And we're really excited about that. We've had some positive feedback from people. Um please invite your neighbors, invite your friends, and um, it'll be a full regular service, right? Just like we normally do. And um we should have the nursery and the kids and everything up and running, just like a first service on Sundays. And so, and we will still have our first our first and second service and connect classes on Sundays, and uh, we're just excited. We're excited to see what God's gonna do with it. It's scary, but it's exciting. Yes, it's scary, it's scary exciting. Can we marry the scary? Exciting. Yeah, it's excitiery. Um whatever we want to do to prepare to put those. It is Friday.

SPEAKER_02 48:20

No, we're we're we are excited about it. And I think uh it's the unknown. I mean, I I've had a lot of people who are who are truly excited and they're like, Do you think it will work? I'm like, I I have no idea. I've no, we we really don't, but all I know is that the elders are all on board.

SPEAKER_00 48:35

And usually when when I my experience, elders are all on board with it, uh completely and utterly with very little very little else other than thought and prayer. Um think the Lord seems to bless that. Yeah. So I'm whatever it is, I'm anxious to see. Yeah, yeah. And again, we get to be I we He just uses it. And I'm just like We get a front row seat. Thank you, Lord. This is really cool. I mean, it's it's it's amazing. It's gonna be a lot of fun either way. Yeah. So we'll just put that on your calendars, be praying about it, please. And um invite people.

SPEAKER_02 49:08

All all of us know, all of us know somebody who always has the excuse. I work on Sunday mornings. Yeah. Invite that person. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's and it's it's gonna be I might even try to wear shorts during the service on this one. I may. Um we should we should just do it, just commit to it. Well, I joked to that, I joked to the elders.

SPEAKER_00 49:30

I said, Yeah, I mean, uh, somebody asked me if I was gonna wear shorts on Saturdays, and I was like, no. And then the elder, one of the elders said, Well, you can. Uh he said, You can wear them on Sundays. And I was like, uh, I don't know about that. And uh so I mean I like I like the idea of 20 years ago, I would have been like, heck yeah, man, I'm gonna wear shorts, but uh now I'm I don't know. I've I don't know if I can have credibility when I'm preaching. I don't know. I yeah I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 49:53

I don't know. So maybe I'll try it. Well, people people say the fact that we don't wear suits, we don't have any credibility.

SPEAKER_00 49:58

Oh yeah, that's true. Well, what are shorts then? Yeah. I mean maybe we'll do that. All right, Dan.

SPEAKER_02 50:05

How many ears does Captain Kirk have? Oh Lord, how many ears does Captain Kirk have? Three. The left ear, the right ear, and the final frontier.

SPEAKER_00 50:15

Oh my gosh. And I didn't have the rim shot ready. That was really that was good. That was good. Two rim shots for that one. That was awesome. The final front shot. Did you hear about the kid that got kidnapped at school? Lord know what happened to him. He woke up. Yeah, that's that's I kind of messed a joke up with this.

SPEAKER_02 50:40

I was gonna say that's close. Did you hear about the the kidnapping at you hear about the kidnapping at school? He woke up.

SPEAKER_00 50:48

That was funny. It was funnier the first time.

SPEAKER_02 50:50

I know because because I'm an idiot. It's great.

SPEAKER_00 50:56

I can't laugh too hard. I can't talk. All right. My voice is about to go, so we're gonna get out of here. All right. Or we can just sit here and listen to Dan tell Dan just. Oh me, guys, appreciate y'all listening. Thank you so much. We love you. Love you guys. Have a good week, and we will hopefully see you at Back to School Bash this Saturday.

SPEAKER_02 51:14

Friday at 3 p.m. Friday at 3 p.m. We need help.

SPEAKER_00 51:17

And then there's gonna be some good food, and then Saturday morning, it's on like Donkey Kong. That's right. So big weekend, and uh, let's see what we can do uh in the name of the Lord this weekend and see what he's gonna do. So thanks, guys. Appreciate y'all. Bye bye.