Jesus Christ is the only way to God

What happens to the "good ones"? You know, the people who are so good, but have never accepted Christ as their Savior? Do they have a chance of eternal life without Jesus? What about the faithful of other religions such as Hinduism or Buddhism? 

Join Dan and Scott for a discussion these topics today and find out why we can say with confidence that no amount of works, sincerity or "good living" can attain salvation. John 14:6 and Acts 4:12 prepare the way for us, but have your notebook handy, we mention a lot of scripture today.

Produced, edited and hosted by Scott Askew and Dan Daugherty

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:16

Hey guys, this is the precast with Scott and Dan. We are, man, getting through the middle of August, and it's I saw on the weather they said that it was gonna be the worst heat in August in a long time. Like it was gonna be over the top. And I always remember August being hot anyway. Dan, how you doing?

SPEAKER_00 0:35

Good. Good. Good. I heard the NOAA um Yeah, that's how that's what it is, right? Yeah. Yeah. Um, they came out with uh um and I I think I read the headline right. I didn't get into the article because I didn't have time, it just came across my you know notifications, but that this is the hottest year on record in I think the United States.

SPEAKER_01 0:57

That's insane. Yeah. And I know they've had a lot of trouble in Europe too. So I know they've, you know, Aaron, Aaron said that even though it was cool in Ireland, cooler, he said it was always in the 70s. He said it never really got he said he was you so used to sleeping in like 70 and 72 at night because for air conditioning. He said that when it was 75, 76, even with the window open, it was hot.

SPEAKER_00 1:19

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:20

I said during the day it was great when he was in Ireland, but during then during the night it was warm. So anyway, um, yeah, I we hope you're we hope you're able to be cool out there. And um and uh I'm always cool. So you know I'm the coolest, coolest guy, sorry, other than me in this room right now. Um I'm second coolest, yeah. Oh me. Oh, it's a pleasure to be with you guys. We had a 101 this past week, and we rely on 101s and things like that. When we started this podcast, and Dan and I were actually just talking about it, when we started the podcast, we had a plethora, to use that word, of questions to be answered. And so we've answered a lot of those questions, and some of them um we answered just in a few sentences with this podcast. It wasn't, you know, and um so but we like 101s because we always get a question or two more, and one that we got this week um we both found uh fascinating, and um we wanted to talk about that today. And that question is Is Jesus Christ the only way to heaven, or are there other ways uh to heaven, to eternity? So um we were gonna touch on that today. And um, Dan, I mean, I found that question fascinating.

SPEAKER_00 2:34

Yeah, I mean, uh, you know, I don't I don't know the the person personally and you know their their history of of faith or anything like that, but um yeah, I mean, you know, just and it really come down to like people who are out there that are genuinely good people, who are trying their best, who are um who may believe in Buddha or you know, I mean, those types of things, and that that it was hard for that person to comprehend that as much as they tried to be a good person, that Jesus would just shut the door on them. Right. That's right.

SPEAKER_01 3:12

Yeah. That morality would be enough. And and like I say, I mean, I think I think this person asked it in that, like you say, in that idea that they truly cared about their friends and they truly cared about their loved ones. And so we tried to steer them in the direction that we're gonna take today during the podcast, um, in steering them into the direction that Jesus is the only way, and that that is the way that you love your friends and your family and the people around you that you care about. You want them to be sure that their salvation rests in Jesus Christ because um he is the way and uh he is the only way. And so today we wanted to talk about that. We will, of course, bring up uh John 14, 6, and we'll probably bring up Acts chapter 4, verse 12. Um those uh those those beautiful texts that that speak to that um that absolute um just that absolute certainty of Jesus being um the one true God. I did find it interesting this morning. Um I came across a, I don't know, I think it was I don't know if it was Frank Turk or not, but he was discussing the um um the Bible with a Mormon, and the Mormon was questioning all of the in in fallacy of Scripture and um saying that of course the Book of Mormon had more witnesses for the golden text than um the resurrection of Christ had witnesses, and I think Turk was just like, wait a minute, you know, and uh it was an interesting discussion, and that guy wouldn't back down. But when we talk about the truth of scripture, and maybe that's where we just need to throw in this, you know, scripture is inerrant um in the originals, and we believe it is in inerrant in how we study it in English, because um we can we can we can dive into the languages and understand the truth of it. And and so when the Bible says something, we take it as absolute truth, it is the authority by which we live. And so um that being said, that to lay the background for what we're gonna do here today, um uh the Bible says Jesus is the only way. So, Dan, where do you want to get started today?

SPEAKER_00 5:15

Um so uh just just addressing um really to me that that question that we got on Sunday, um it's not it's not a uh it's trying to word this correctly, it's not a philosophical question. Right because it's driven by complete emotion. That's right. Um we allow our emotions to get in the way of of a lot of things that we do. And I and I'm not saying emotions are bad. Um but if we depend solely on our emotions, we're going to make a lot of weird, crazy, whatever word you want to use to describe decisions. That's right. Um and so we have to remove that there's got to be a point where we we remove um emotion and allow our our what we know, our head knowledge uh to take over. We and we've discussed this before. As Christians, we have to live in a in a realm where where our hearts and our minds connect.

SPEAKER_02 6:20

Right.

SPEAKER_00 6:21

So that though times like, especially in your own faith, like when you when you don't feel God is near, then your heart, your your head takes over and says, listen, that's just a feeling. You know he's near because you've you've you've seen him work before. It's you, you know, scripture tells us he never leaves nor forsakes. Yep. Um, and then when we have our our the part of our our mind where we start saying, well, that logically, that doesn't make any sense, well, then your heart takes over and says, but do we have to understand everything? Or can we have a faith that God is who he is and just trust in that? And so we have to live in in that way as believers where our hearts and our heads are in are in unison. Yes, absolutely. That being said, when we ask that question, like, aren't there other ways, like you know, if if people if people are are truly seeking uh something greater than themselves, and it and it happens that they find that in Buddha or they they find that in one of the 33 million gods of Hindu or or Hindi, and it I mean it you can't tell me that that because they're trying, that they're not going to they're not going to go to heaven.

SPEAKER_02 7:27

Right.

SPEAKER_00 7:28

Um aren't they just good people trying to do the right thing? Well there's a fallacy in that because uh as Christians, we believe, at least we should, that you are not, you are not inherently good.

SPEAKER_02 7:44

Right.

SPEAKER_00 7:46

But but there are Christians who believe that. And I know there are because I've had the arguments with them. Yep. Uh you are not inherently good. No. You you when you when you are born, you're born with this, this I don't believe you're born with sin, but you're born destined to towards that. Yep. Um, so so I still believe a newborn baby, a a child that has no no idea of what sin is, they there's an innocence there with that. But they're still not born good, inherently good. That's right. Our hearts are evil, our hearts are wicked. Um, you know, uh, I think it's uh Jeremiah tells us that do not follow your heart because your heart is is deceitful above all things. Um, and so uh so to call people good and say, they're a good person, they're trying to, you know, I I know what we're trying to say. Like, you know, if you're trying to live a moral life, you're trying to be good, but at heart you're not good. Uh in if we could just look into like it's Matt uh Mark chapter 10, uh the parable of the rich young man, uh, or not parable, but the the teaching of the rich young man, um, as Jesus would it says here in verse 17, uh, as he was setting out on his journey, a man ran up, knelt before him, and asked him, Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life? Um, you know, and so uh this this res or this uh conversation that he has with Jesus, this rich, rich young man, he wants to know, um, well, first of all, good teacher, what must I do to inherit this eternal life? Right. Uh and Jesus' answer to him is is is pretty profound because I didn't even, if if I were to see a question like this, uh and you know, without knowing Jesus, right, um, you know, like I would not have I would not have um thought this word good would be even a it's a descriptive word of of the of the teacher, right? Um but here's how Jesus answers him. And Jesus said to him, Why do you call me good? And he says, No one is good except God alone.

SPEAKER_03 9:52

Right.

SPEAKER_00 9:53

So he doesn't even address the question right away of how do you how do I and have eternal life. He addresses the issue of why do you call me good?

SPEAKER_03 10:03

Right.

SPEAKER_00 10:04

There is none good except God alone. Right. Well, you can, you know, you can look at that and say, what does he mean by that? Well, first of all, Jesus is claiming something here. He's saying there's no none good but God alone, but you call me good. Right. So there, you know There's a correlation. There's a correlation. He's telling he's saying that, yeah, okay, yeah. You call me good, none good about God, but you know, so that's what I am. Um but also to say to set this record straight that we are not good, God is good.

SPEAKER_02 10:36

Right.

SPEAKER_00 10:37

And so with with that premise, we have to come into a humility before the Lord as Christians, because we're the we're the ones that are gonna get that the most. Uh a non-believer is not gonna I'm not expecting a non-believer to interact in this way. Right. Um, but as believers, we we come to faith knowing that we don't have it together. Right. We come to faith understanding that what we do is not enough. Right. At least we should. Yeah. We should understand that. Yes. If the gospel present is presented correctly, you understand the bad, and that's why you accept the good.

SPEAKER_02 11:18

Right.

SPEAKER_00 11:18

Okay. Um, and so but but but I'm not naive enough to to realize that that there is there's people, there's churches out there that preach a different kind of gospel. Yeah. Um, even that call themselves Christians. But so with that premise, we come to this question of okay, there's none good but God. So when we ask the question, isn't the person who's trying to be good and who's trying to be moral, uh, no matter what God they're serving, but they're trying to why would Jesus over like would would they be doomed? Well, the good the short answer is yes. Because goodness isn't enough. Right.

SPEAKER_03 11:57

Right.

SPEAKER_00 11:58

Because we can't be.

SPEAKER_03 11:59

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 12:00

We cannot be good enough to save ourselves, or for Jesus to say, you know, I'm gonna overlook the fact that you believe in this other God, and I'm gonna go ahead and let you in anyway. Because the reality then sets in of, okay, so what happens if if Jesus does this? If Jesus decides, you know what, I'm just gonna let whoever I want to let in, and it's gonna be, it doesn't matter what God you serve. Uh, first of all, Jesus would be uh contradictory to what scripture tells us. But secondly, uh there's been there'd be no reason for Jesus to have to go to the cross. Right. Yeah. There's there's no reason for that. Right. There's no reason for you and I to uh to go out and evangelize the lost. Right. Um, there's no reason for us to even ourselves place our hope and faith in Jesus um and and and worship him and and do the things that he's gifted us to do. There'd be no reason for Christianity, period. That's right. If everybody has the same opportunity, no matter what they believe, to go to heaven if it's predicated on our goodness. Right.

SPEAKER_01 13:06

Yep. And and that's that morality, of course, we can talk about absolute morality and we can talk about absolute truth. Right. Because, you know, where does that come from? That has to have an origin. It can't just be, hey, you know, we, you know, this is fine. Um, I can one person can murder people and hurt people. Uh that that abject morality honestly has has to be understood as something that that comes from somewhere else. And Jesus is Jesus is the center of it all. I mean, Jesus would say, My words are life. Jesus would say, My bread of life. I am the bread of life. I am the door. Yep. Um, I am, you know, and Jesus made all these claims. I I was sitting here thinking while you were talking about John 3, 16, um, 17 and 18. In verse 18, you know, we get into whoever believes in him is not condemned. He's talking about himself. Right. For God, well, verse 17, for God did not send his son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him, saved through him. And these are Jesus' words. These are Jesus's are words in red. Verse 18 Whoever believes in him, the Son of God, Jesus, whoever believes in him is not condemned, and whoever does not believe is condemned already because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. And and Jesus makes these claims over and over and over again. Of course, we identify Acts 412 and John 14.6 because they're the easiest. Um, Rabbi Kushner wrote that book, uh, bad when bad things happen to good people. Yeah. And the answer to that is there are no good people.

SPEAKER_00 14:49

There are a lot of bad things, but there are any good people. And but but doesn't our emotions take over at that in that statement and say, well, wait a minute, I know a lot of good people.

SPEAKER_01 14:56

I know a lot of good people who would do a lot of good things. Right, right. But and and I remember the first time I became aware of it was I was a senior in high school. I went to a private Christian high school, and my but it was my senior year, and my teacher's name was Dan DeCam. And uh Dan was um uh a tremendous teacher. I did not appreciate him most of the year until the very end of the year, and he was just he was brilliant. I mean, just a brilliant teacher in a small little, in a small little school. He went off to be a principal at a big school in Michigan, he deserved it. But um uh he was fantastic. And long story short, he told us, he said, listen, he said, I have a lot of, I'll never forget it. He said, I have a lot of atheist friends who do a lot of good things. He said, but they're not going to heaven because they don't believe on the name of Jesus. And I remember thinking then, I was a senior in high school, I was already a Christian, I remember thinking then, well, that's not very fair, right? You know, and that's not right. And then he he sat down, he explained it to a class with us, and he went through scripture with us. And at the end of it, I thought, man, you know, that then that's true. You know, Jesus is the only way. And there, I can't just get there because I'm a halfway good person or I didn't kill anybody, or I don't, you know, I didn't smoke like freight train or whatever it is, sins that we want to throw out there and say they're sins or or whatever. But um, yeah, morality, and I and I hate to say this, guys, on the flip side, grace is scandalous because yeah, there are people who've done some really bad things who fall under the grace of Christ because they have believed on his name, and they will be dwelling in eternity with God because of the power of Jesus Christ's grace and and his merciful salvation. And um people will look at that and go, Man, they don't deserve it. But the thing is, you don't deserve it either. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:37

And that's my no matter how quote unquote good you think you are. That's exactly right. Well, and uh recently, and it I'm glad you brought that up because recently there was uh an article uh while I was scrolling, uh, and it was it was uh it was a news organization that was um that was Christian, uh, and it it talked about how um uh Jeffrey Domner, um his uh some of his letters have been rediscovered. Okay. And in those letters, he was asking people, uh asking biblical questions to pastors, and the the pastor that ended up baptizing him. Yeah and asking him, can I be baptized? Is is is I mean, basically, is is God's grace sufficient for even me? Yeah, like you know, type of thing. And so, like because we we know um through the witness of a lot of people who've come out um before Jeffrey Domner was killed in prison that he he became a believer.

SPEAKER_01 17:27

Yeah. I mean, he gave his life to Christ. He gave his life to Christ.

SPEAKER_00 17:29

He baptized into Christ into the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit. You think about like, man, Jeffrey Domner, this dude who took other men and did unthinkable things with them and then ate them after he killed them.

SPEAKER_01 17:44

Okay, they found body parts in his refrigerator when they arrested him.

SPEAKER_00 17:47

Yeah, and and so he can be saved? Yes.

SPEAKER_01 17:51

It it's mind-blowing because I've long um Philip Yancey's earlier books um were so wrapped around the idea of grace, and he brought up Dahmer uh quite often. And um, and um just the you know, I mean, he was I think Dahmer was beaten to death when somebody tore a door off of a bathroom stall and beat him to death with the door. Yeah, something like that, yeah. And um, so I mean he he died a gruesome death only a few months after he had given his life to Christ. And there were a lot of people who said, Oh, well, he didn't really change, and there were all these things. But Dahmer quoted the preacher over and over again who would continually um visit him and who was instrumental in bringing him to Christ. And um, and he was a Christian church, church Christ minister. And and um, and that guy said, you know, he said he he was on his way. He said, Yeah, was he was he living as a full-blown Christian? Well, no, because nobody is when they're three months in. Right. You know, I mean everybody's a baby Christian when they first come to Christ. But um he said he he had given his life and was sincere and was asking questions, reading his Bible, and um he said, I have every reason to believe that if the if the grace of Christ is true, right, then then Jeffrey Dahmer will be in heaven. And and guys, that is scandalous. I mean, that that I and I don't mean the use the word in a scandalous. It's it's not it's not a negative thing, it's just that people are going to be there on that day of judgment and say, Well, I was a good person, right, and that person hurt me, but just because they gave their life to Christ, they're forgiven. And yeah, I mean I mean the grace of Christ is like that.

SPEAKER_00 19:21

And um And if we do anything else with the grace of Christ, if if we if we look at a person like Domner and say, Um, you know, no, God, God can't save him, but then they they can they can say, well, my my granddad accepted Christ, and you know, he was he was the cussingist and drinkingist, you know, and and you know, but he's he's saved, but then we say, well, Jeffrey Domner can't. What we're doing is we're cheapening the grace. That's exactly right. And and we need to allow grace be what it is, which is that's that's how we're saved, is for by grace you have been saved. That's right, right? Ephesians tells us. And so so we we have to understand that grace is freely given to anyone, yeah, anyone who would call out to the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. And it's through and only through Jesus. That's right.

SPEAKER_01 20:13

It's not through anything else.

SPEAKER_00 20:14

It's not through anything else. And so um, and and that that's kind of what we you know it it Jesus' um role in this is very unique because if you look at um and do do your study, I mean, go go and look at these world religions. There's not a single world religion, Mormonism included, where you're only saved by the grace of Jesus. Right.

SPEAKER_01 20:39

I remember the story C. S. Lewis walked into a room of um I don't know who I don't know what a bunch of philosophers as well as philosophers. Yeah, yeah. And he walked into the room and they were discussing what made Christianity different because everybody was saying, well, Christianity is different. And Lewis walked into the room and they said, Well, you know, C.S. what do you think? And he said, Oh, that's easy. He said it's grace. He said, That's that's easy. He said it's great. He said, None of the other world religions have grace. He said, Um, it's just grace. Right. And um, it's not works, it's not it's not, you know, right, uh, it's just grace. And um, and they all kind of stood there and they had to agree that grace is what made it different. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 21:15

And um you can't tack anything else onto that. No. I mean, in in and even in Christianity we have that. I mean, we have Catholicism and Orthodoxy that you know that they try to attack different things on that make it more of a works, seemingly works-based. Yeah. Um, but even though and then and when you I've I have a couple friends, uh, one who was who was very, very orthodox, and the other one uh who is very Catholic, they would still agree we're saved by grace, but there's but there's always a but. Right. But yeah, you know, always big butts. And it's like always big butts. Um uh it is grace and grace alone. Yeah, period. Yeah, always.

SPEAKER_01 21:55

Yeah, always, always grace, grace through faith, but it's Grace. Grace, you know, through the blood of Jesus Christ, it's grace. Yep. Grace from the heart of God. It's grace. Um, you know, I'm I'm not able to separate my salvation from grace alone. And that's that's just where we have to. I, you know, the Bible is pretty clear, you know, on this subject. It's not, you know, through Christ. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 22:22

And that's the key, though, is through Christ. It has to be through Christ. And and so, and so we could we can make this argument, or Christ Christians can make this argument. Then, okay, then well, then, then yes, God can show grace on whomever he wants to. Yeah. But how how has he how has he prescribed it in scripture is through Jesus and Jesus alone. That's right.

SPEAKER_01 22:41

Acts 13, 38, and 39. Let it be known to you, therefore, brothers, that through this, through this man forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you. And by him, everyone who believes is freed from everything from which you cannot be freed by the law of Moses. And it says, and by him, everyone who believes is freed. Right. I mean, that that's not a line of quali quant qualifications, that is a line of belief on him and the grace is bestowed.

SPEAKER_00 23:08

Acts 4, 12. Yeah. Again, and there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved. That's right. So it's beautiful. Grace is what saves us, but it's only through Jesus Christ. Um, John 14, 6, I am the way, the truth, and life, no one comes to the Father except through me. And then you have Christ alone, uh, who is the mediator between God and humanity. Right. Uh Paul writes to Timothy um in his uh in First Timothy, says in First Timothy 2, 5, for there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

SPEAKER_04 23:46

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 23:47

So in order to have that relationship with the Father, you have to have the Son.

SPEAKER_01 23:53

Right. You have to and and and to get out of that, you have to change the entire framework. You have to say, okay, God is not the God that I believe in. This is what religions do. Yep, they change God so that therefore I don't have to have the relationship with Christ because Buddhism isn't going to believe in a creator God. Right. Right. Um Hinduism does not believe, well, they believe in creator gods, but they are they are fierce and horrible and will kill mankind faster than they bless mankind. And there's 33 million of them. And um, and so, you know, but that's the other thing about Buddhists. Buddhists aren't seeking an eternal heaven with God. No, no, Hindus aren't, they're they're seeking nirvana. You know, Shinto is seeking relatives. Um, I mean, whatever it is, world religion that you face back to, Mormonism isn't isn't relationship to Elohim. It's it's relate it's self-reliance and self-relationship to have as many you know spirit wives as you want to to populate your own planet, your own planet. Yeah. And so, you know, no other faith is is is even in the same line and category as as Jesus Christ in grace. Right. And so, and when we cheapen that grace and when we say, Oh, it's works, or when we cheapen that grace and we say, Well, that's not the only way, um, we are again removing the foundational system which God has taken and put in place and saying there's another way when there isn't. Right. There's just not another way.

SPEAKER_00 25:23

Yeah, and there's just there's this uh just this mentality among among Christians today who aren't really discipled. And and I I I really think I, you know, a lot of our conversations come back to the same thing. Yeah. Is if you were just discipled correctly, yeah, then you wouldn't have this view, you wouldn't have this, you know, if you were just taught the scriptures, when you became a Christian, instead of being thrown to the wolves, yeah. Um, you know, because because when you're when you're fresh in your faith, you're you're very vulnerable.

SPEAKER_03 25:53

Yeah. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:54

Um and if this if the Bible is not your source of of knowledge and growth, and you allow worldly influences in to do that, or you know, TikToks, yeah, all those things, uh, what's gonna happen is you're you're going to be led astray. That's right. Even as a believer. And then and then we have believers that adopt these ridiculous uh things. Uh or we have pastors and theologians, and I'm using the quote-unquote saying air-quoting um that that claim to be uh experts in in the Bible, and they're telling you that the Bible uh never condemns homosexuality, or the Bible never condemns uh marriage of just one person or the Bible, you know, it or uh, you know, and so you're you're thinking, you're going, okay, so uh how were they discipled? Right, right? Um but if if we just come to faith with humility and we understand that God is God, I am not. Yeah. And Lord, teach me. And Lord, I want to be so humble the word, I don't even want my feelings to interject any any type of uh sway.

SPEAKER_02 27:07

Right.

SPEAKER_00 27:08

Um, if if we can completely do that, then we will be in a position to be able to see the truth the way it's supposed to be seen.

SPEAKER_04 27:16

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 27:17

Um, you know, the hard part is is the influences that we allow into our lives. Um and and one of those influences is our feelings.

SPEAKER_02 27:25

Yeah, yeah. That's exactly right.

SPEAKER_00 27:29

I I I just uh there's no other way of saying that. Like like you we trust our feelings entirely too much.

SPEAKER_01 27:37

I rem talking about feelings, getting into John 6, where Jesus is speaking to the disciples, and he's he's had a hard teaching. And um uh, you know, at this point, um, there's a lot of people turning their backs on Jesus, and Jesus turns to the 12 and he says, Um, do you want to go away as well? And uh John 6, 68 and 69. I think at that point, many people, when their feelings are hurt, when their expectations aren't met, when when they don't have everything that they want, they do turn their back and they they go to walk away, or they don't trust, or they find another path that satisfies them, or you know, um, all this. It's like the the article, I think you may have mentioned it to me or someone did, um, that some Christians were worshiping God through shrooms. You know, they were taking shrooms and and trying to, you know, uh uh, you know, get this experiential euphoric high to grow closer to God, which is insane. That's not how and uh and so you know, just just craziness. But Simon Peter had the answer, and and in John 6, 68 and 69, it's beautiful what he says. Simon Peter answered him after Jesus says, Do you want to go away as well? And it says, Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life, and we have believed and have come to know that you are the holy one of God. And even Peter got it right in the Gospels, where I I joke on Peter a lot because he's Mr. Foot and Mouth a lot of times and makes mistakes. But man, what made him so amazing is that he was bold enough to say the things that he truly believed, and there he got it exactly right. There's nowhere else to go. I mean, there's no there's no one else to go to. And Peter there, even though it's very early in the book of John, is and it's early, it's about halfway through Jesus' ministry. Um, and Peter will fail Jesus later. Peter will deny Jesus. We know this three times, but um, Peter is restored because his heart is always set on Christ, and the mistakes he makes don't change Jesus' love for him. And that's that's something that we we also don't get sometimes with grace. We don't get it with Jesus. And again, I'll bring up that rising, riding high ministries that I keep watching online with these guys with these horses, and the horse will buck that guy, and the guy lands on the ground and his lands on his butt and his butt's hurt, and he gets up, he's got dirt in his ear, and he puts back on his cowboy hat and he looks at the horse and he'll tell the crowd, he's like, Yeah, this horse now, she expects me to hit her, she expects me to beat her, she expects me to yell at her, be mad at her, come at her really fast. He said, But what she's gonna learn is that no matter what she does to me, she can kick me, bite me, hit me, knock me down. I'm not going to change. Right. And I'm going to keep coming at her with this steady, unrelenting love that I want her to learn to trust me. Even if she doesn't understand me, even if she doesn't feel like it, I want her to learn that she can trust me because I'm going to consistently be there. And he's talking about, of course, God's approach to us. And um, and I find that fascinating because I think sometimes it does go on the other side that we feel like we we don't deserve the grace of Christ. And that is true. You said that. Right. We don't, but man, we we we can have the grace of Christ, not because, again, of our goodness or our evil, right? We can have it because God is good. Yes, and that's a full circle thing that we need to really grasp onto when it comes to to the love of God, that He's not going to change just because we do.

SPEAKER_00 31:03

Right, right. And then and in turn, what we understand that is as if there's none good but God, and we come to understand that and we accept the grace that Jesus offers freely to anyone who would repent and re and believe. That's right. Um, then what does that make us? God begins to make us good. Yes, he begins to change our hearts. Yes. And we'll never fully be there until eternity, uh, until that that day we're with him for for eternity, uh in paradise. Um, but nonetheless, he begins to sanctify us, and that's a making us good and holy. That's a that's over time. Yeah, over time. And so, um, and so yeah, I mean, one day we will be completely good. Yeah. Um, but until that day, we understand that there is none good but God. And so we follow that good God and we and we understand that we're not gonna understand everything. That's right. Um, we're not gonna grasp our hearts are gonna, I mean, you you you have a you have a kid who comes to you and says, Hey, you know, mom and dad, I know you raised me this way, but I want to live this way. Yeah, you know, um, you can't change what you believe about God because your feelings for your child. Right. That's right. You know, truth is still gonna be truth. That's right. And so now you you can change how you respond to your child. Sure. And and you don't have to condone actions. You don't have to condone and you don't have to condemn either. Right. You can love through it. You can love through it. You can continue to say, You're my child, and I love you no matter what, but it still doesn't take the fact away that Jesus is who he is, and I'm gonna pray for you and I'm gonna encourage you to live the way Christ wants you to live. That's right. And but I'm gonna love you there. Yep. You know, and and I think I think that's the, you know, that's the that's the response that we should have. When when our feelings are are are tried, um, we've got to we've got to lean in on truth. That's right.

SPEAKER_01 33:01

And we and we have to understand that Jesus had those feelings. Absolutely. I mean, I think Jesus, Jesus had, I mean, when Jesus is in the Garden of Gethsemane and he prays, Father, take this cup from me, not my will, but your will be done. Right. Jesus was heavily overwhelmed. I mean, he was Luke tells us he was crying tears of blood, you know, the capillaries in his eyes possibly, you know, bursting open, or the small veins in his eyes possibly bursting open. And Jesus, Jesus had strong feelings too, but they never he never allowed his feelings to get in the way of his relationship with God and his trust of his father. Right. And um that that, you know, that and you say, oh, well, he was God or yes, he was God on the world. But he was also a man. He was also a man. And that's and that's when we get to Hebrews uh chapter two, it says, Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same things that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is the devil, and deliver all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong suffering and uh slavery. And and that that, you know, Jesus came, so he God, I mean, think about it, guys. You know, I I've and I always use the Taj in the movie Goodwill Hunting, he uses uh Michelangelo's um the ceiling assistant chapel. And I always use the Taj Mahal because I've been in the Taj Mahal. And when you run your hand across the wall in the Taj, everything, everything is inlaid. So what they did is they they carved out part of the marble and then they carved jewels and stones and precious stones and they place them into it. And so when you don't know that, it looks like you know they could stick out, but when you run your fingers over it, you can feel it, and they let you touch it in some places just to feel it. And but I can explain that to someone, but I can't explain the congestion and the heat and how many people are on top of you when you're trying to reach out and how guards are yelling at people not to take pictures and all this crazy stuff. But what I'm saying is that Jesus came to experience God came to earth to experience humanity, his own creation. And in doing so, the Bible tells us that he was disciplined, not to the place where he was punished for anything. He didn't do anything wrong, he never sinned. But he he learned discipline through humanity so that he would understand when we come to him with our hurts and pains, he knows what that feels like. And um, you know, that that I once had a parent who said um who lost their only child, and and they said, you know, why would God allow my only child, you know, to die? And and I knew the answer, but I couldn't say it. You know, I mean he he lost a kid too. And and you can't say that because that would never connect in that moment. But that's all I could think about was that God does understand what you're going through. And uh, even though you won't understand that now, he does understand.

SPEAKER_00 35:49

Yeah, and that and that's that's vital that we understand. I mean, Jesus came into crowds and he had com scripture says over and over again that he had compassion. We've been talking a lot about compassion in my uh Connect class because compassion, compassion's not feeling sorry for, compassion leads to something, it leads to an action. Yeah, and uh and Jesus had compassion on many people and healed many people, uh all n all with the knowledge that not every one of them would accept what he's done.

SPEAKER_01 36:16

Right. Isn't that crazy? Yeah, we're gonna talk about that this week in Luke 9 when he sends out the 12 apostles and he tells them, I'm giving you power to heal, I'm giving you power over demons, I'm giving you this power. But if you go to a place that won't accept you, then you know, leave. And isn't it sad that there's places that wouldn't accept them? Right. I mean, you know, I have the power to heal whatever you got, I have the power to run out demons. Ah, we don't want you here. Right. Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_00 36:42

Yeah, it but it it just proves that that that emotion, that feeling um of of even uh sympathy or wanting to have compassion on somebody um doesn't equate every time to absolute truth. That's right. And so we have to learn how to how to flesh out that feeling in in in again, that's where your head and your heart connect to say, uh even though I I want this person to be saved, I know that it's only by the name of Jesus Christ and through Jesus Christ can they be saved. That's right. And so I have to, I have to, I have to to look at both of those things and say, which one wins? Is it is it gonna be the word of God and the truth of God, or is it gonna be my feelings and my heart? And if you're a believer in Jesus Christ and you're listening to this, 100% has to be the scriptures.

SPEAKER_04 37:39

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 37:40

100% in the Bible. That's it.

SPEAKER_04 37:43

That's it.

SPEAKER_00 37:44

Not not any book but the Bible, right? Just the Bible, that has to be what wins. That's right.

SPEAKER_01 37:51

And the Bible is clear.

SPEAKER_00 37:52

And then and then I I believe God eventually, I mean, I mean we we've said we've both said this. There's things in the scripture that we read and we don't like. Sure. And and and I love the word of God. Like, like I I I love it, but there is things that I wish was different.

SPEAKER_01 38:06

Yeah. I mean, if I had my way, I would change some things. Some of you may be sitting there and we say this, and you may say, Well, what would you change? I I I mean, uh maybe that's another podcast. My thing is, is that I don't have to agree with God because I'm not God. That's right. And I I mean, what is in Rudy? He says, uh, two things I'm sure of, there is a God, and I'm not human. I'm not him, yeah. And um, and that's I mean, that's for sure. And when when something disagrees between me and God or myself in scripture, um, I am a hundred percent sure I am the one who's wrong. Right. And that's that's what we have to go to. And I know that there's some of you also listening to this, even as Christians who hear this and may say, Well, I don't want to read my Bible then because I'm afraid that I'll find something that that I disagree with. Right. Just do what it says. Yeah. I mean, you you've got to could you've got to resign yourself to the idea that if I'm gonna surrender my life to Jesus Christ, I'm gonna surrender myself to his word. And and if I'm not willing to do that, then then you have to go back and say, Well, what did I resign myself to then? Right. Because there is an authority and he is he is the savior. Yep. And there there is no other way.

SPEAKER_00 39:12

And my thought is if if you can't, if you can't um come to the conclusion that I just need to trust what God says in his word, then you've not ever surrendered yourself fully to Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 39:24

You surrendered maybe to a religion, yeah, or maybe an idea. Or to an idea, or to a tradition. I mean, but but to say and I think there are a lot of Christians, uh maybe not a lot. Let me say, let me rephrase that. I believe that there are Christians who who who claim to be Christians, who try to live as Christians, but they won't resign themselves to scripture, they won't surrender fully to Christ, and maybe they never because I still believe, and I know you believe this, when you come in contact with Christ, you're changed. I'm not saying you're perfect, you're gonna do everything. But you will be different, but you will be different. And when you do the things that you shouldn't do, there will be, there will be, even if it's just guilt consequence in you, you will feel that. And and that is something that we know, man, I am made for more than this. I am I am better than this because of Christ and and who he is, and and and we move on from that. But um, no, there there's there's often times when when I hear people say, Well, I'm a Christian, but I don't believe in all of scripture, and or I'm a Christian, but I don't believe Jesus is the only way. And right man, that's that's some scary stuff.

SPEAKER_00 40:29

Well, I mean, we're just gonna go to Matthew chapter seven real quick. Uh, this is what Jesus is saying, um, verses 21 through 23. Um, not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord, yeah, will enter the kingdom of heaven. That's scary.

SPEAKER_01 40:45

That is.

SPEAKER_00 40:46

Because if if you think about that, uh I I I think I think you you you kind of retracted on a statement. You're saying, well, not everybody. You're you're not, you know, but there are a ton of people I believe in Christianity who claim Jesus, who claim him as the Lord, but they don't know Jesus.

SPEAKER_03 41:02

No.

SPEAKER_00 41:03

And Jesus says, and this is one of the reasons why I can't subscribe fully to the once saved, always saved. Right. Uh, because I and uh but I also believe I can subscribe to the fact of okay, were they really believers to begin with? And I think this kind of supports that. Not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven, part of that will, how do we know it? It's in scripture. That's right. It's accepting the word of God for what it is, for who he is, um, because who's the word? Jesus. It's Jesus. Yeah. And so, uh, and on that day, many will say to me, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and cast out demons in your name and do many mighty works in your name? I mean, what if that is not a description of what we see in our modern day churches, especially the uh health and wealth gospel, prosperity gospel stuff, um, I don't know what it what is. And then I will declare to them, I never knew you depart from me, you workers of lawlessness. Wow. That is to me, like that's a gut punch. It is to know that, you know, and I and I've said it before uh when I when I get chances to preach, is that you know, coming to church doesn't make you a Christian anymore than standing in the garage makes you a car. Right. This is what Jesus is saying that not everyone who comes to me and says, Lord, Lord, I don't care if you prophesy or if you claim to have demons that you cast out or or that you know you do mighty works in the name of Jesus. Um God knows your heart, he knows your allegiance. And so to me, if you can't take the word of God and say, This is his holy word, and I'm going to depend on what he says through his holy word, yeah. Nothing else, no feelings, no anything like that, but through his holy word, then then I I think if you can't do that, you're in that category that I just read. I think so. And and and I make I make no apologies for if I offended you in that. That is what scripture says. Yeah, you have to be in Jesus fully. You have to be committed to him, to his word, and our feelings have to be secondary to the truth of the gospel of who Jesus is and what he's done, and that there is no other way to be saved than through the name of Jesus Christ. That's right. Period. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 43:29

I um I was thinking of the um narrow gate passage. Yeah, yeah. Um and uh I looked it up, which is really funny because it is literally like six verses before the thing you just read. And um, I was like, where is this? There's six verses before this, where Jesus says, enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and way is easy that leads to destruction. Those who enter it by it are many, for the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few. And of course, I was talking to a fellow one time who claimed to be a Christian, but he was doing anything he wanted to and all this stuff and he came in uh to my office one day when I was working at another church and and I read him that passage and he said I have never heard that before and I said well I said you've never I he claimed to be in church all his life and he was a severe alcoholic he was um a brutal dictator to his wife and kids um just uh and uh and I said um I said do you think you're on that path and he said I always just thought that you know it was just Christ you know it was just accepting Jesus and then doing whatever you wanted and I said I think if you accepted Jesus you wouldn't be doing whatever you wanted and that was my answer and he said and he he broke down after that not broke down like crying but he broke down to the place where he was like he got offlustered and he left and um you know I never had another conversation with him about it and he never wanted to talk to me about it again. And um I don't know where he's at now or what he's doing but that's why we can't pull back from those things because people do need to hear it. And I wasn't being mean to him I would it's just the truth. It's not a meanness. No there's no meanness in it.

SPEAKER_00 45:02

If anything we're trying to be kind of if you he if you hear if you hear what we're saying and think man those guys are jerks yeah um understand that that no we are so passionate about this answer that it's only Jesus that it it it may come across as you know very blunt and and and good. I hope it does I hope it pierces your heart so well that you you there you you have to wrestle with it.

SPEAKER_01 45:26

Yeah you you can't ignore it anymore and if you're and if you're listening to this at this point and you're saying you know what maybe I didn't come in contact with Christ maybe I did then a a rededication right is beautiful. I mean you know you've already been baptized you've already done what you knew to be best maybe you know I I don't know I I know a rededication would be awesome for you and and maybe it's just coming back and saying you know what maybe I didn't have my heart and my mind in the I wasn't discipled to the place I needed to be you know or even understand afterwards but now I understand and I want to make it right and and maybe you just come and maybe let's have a conversation about it and and we'll see what happens. And maybe you know sometimes people want to be rebaptized they just want to do it all over again and we and we do that we don't encourage it because you know one Bible one faith one baptism one Lord and uh and and we don't always encourage that but if the person's not not gonna be satisfied without it then we can talk about those things as well and um we just we want you to we want you to know Christ we want you to know Christ more than we want you at Broad Creek. We want you to know Christ more than we want you you know I mean than anything we want you to be in a relationship with Christ a saving salvific relationship that is efficacious to your eternity that makes it so that you come and are one with God and the only way to that is through Jesus. That's right and it's not through it's not through us it's not through a religion air quotes it is it is through Christ. And um when you get that then everything else can fall into place.

SPEAKER_00 46:59

Him first everything else right because because what does God call good religion? James tells us that pure and undefiled religion is taking care of widows and orphans and not not allowing oneself to be corrupted by the world corrupted by the world. That's right. And the only way to live that way is through Christ.

SPEAKER_01 47:17

And so so religion in and of itself is not bad as long as it's Jesus that's right as long as it's Jesus and I and that's why we often say I mean I'm not I'm not gonna stand up here and say oh I I hate religion. I don't hate religion I think religion has done many good things in the world I think it's done amazing things but it's it's a religion based on Christ that that matters.

SPEAKER_00 47:37

Christ and Christ alone. That's right. I mean I I just looked it up real quick as of 2020 there are approximately 2.3 billion Christians worldwide making christianity the largest global religion and if you if you couple that with um the the passage that I read and the passage you read narrows the gate uh not everybody who says Lord Lord then then I think we can correctly assume um without you know the assumption doing what we you know you know the same um that of all those two point three billion Christians that claim Christ a very small portion of those are actually followers of Jesus if if you if you really look at that if you're being honest yeah if you're being honest yeah because I know a lot of people who fit in that category but I know we're not saved.

SPEAKER_01 48:26

Yeah I I've met people literally told me I'm an I'm a Christian because I'm an American oh yeah well they I mean they probably lived overseas for a while because that's when we went to India that was the assumption even when we I remember being at the Taj Mahal and I wanted to say there was a little it was she was either Japanese or Chinese and or maybe Korean I'm I'm not sure but she walked up to us and she went to take a picture with the girl who was with us uh Carly because Carly had a huge head of curly blonde hair and they just never never seen never seen curly blonde hair and so she wanted a picture and she said uh American and we said yes she said Christians and we were like yes and I was like how does she know just by looking at us that we were Christians. It wasn't just by looking at us it was you're American so therefore you're Christian. And that blew my mind after I talked to Kurt about it and uh we were just sitting there I remember we had a short conversation he said well yeah he said they think we're Christians just because we're Americans and I was like we yeah I want to be known as a Christian but not because I'm an American right I mean you know that that doesn't make sense to me but uh that's how the world sees us. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 49:34

And so and and we've we've accepted that. Yeah. Yeah we just go yeah yeah yeah sure yeah absolutely let's tie it right into our Bible but without your life given to Jesus and you living in the will of God scripture very clearly we just read it yeah not everybody who says Lord Lord no and so my encouragement to you listening is that if you've had that question and we can go into you know what about those who've never heard of the name Jesus and stuff like that that's an that's another that's another subject another subject but it is only through Jesus and Jesus alone can you be saved. That's right. And so if you know those people if your heart goes out to those people where your feelings are like wait a minute they're they're genuinely trying to be quote unquote good people then you need to you need to solidify within yourself that I have to trust the word of God right over my feelings. And so then now what are you going to do about it? Right. You go with the truth to the people that you care so much about that's right and tell them the only way to be saved.

SPEAKER_04 50:39

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 50:39

Yep. That's why we have that's why we have the Great Commission. And if you don't know the Great Commission if you're listening it's it's uh Matthew 28 18 through 20 Jesus says go therefore and make disciples of all nations baptizing them in name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit and teaching them to obey everything I've commanded you and truly I am with you always even to the end of the age. That's what we're supposed to do. So set your feelings aside pick up the word of God what does it say? Jesus is the only way to be saved. There's no other name given among men by which we must be saved and he is the mediator between us and the Father and so if you believe that as a believer it is your responsibility to take that message to those people that you desperately your heart is breaking for. Yeah. Don't bank on the fact well God will see their goodness and he'll just save them. That's not going to happen.

SPEAKER_01 51:33

That's not what the Bible says will happen guys. No Dan just explained it perfectly I think that's a good place for us to kind of kind of cut that off and like I like we've said if you want to talk about this and you want to have a conversation please come talk to us. Absolutely um we would love to talk to you about it maybe maybe you're maybe you really have been um what you feel at this point maybe living a partial partial lie you know maybe it's not a and maybe you're wondering did I come into contact with Christ when I did this did I actually accept him do I know him or do I know of him? Maybe you're asking all those questions. Well that's what we're here for. We have we have us and the elders um we have female teachers who would love to talk to you um we have we have a lot of guys and and ladies who would who would sit down with you and try to explain this this further and um and have those conversations we understand that it's it's a big subject it really is and and we understand that Christians um can struggle with it so just know that Jesus is the only way there is no other way there's no other way there's no other way all right um we are at that time of every podcast when we enter into dad joke mode so Dan what have you got for us today?

SPEAKER_00 52:39

So the the first one I I have two uh I have to preface this one with like this is the only dad joke that my son has ever laughed at oh and he to he told me while we took it we went down to Wilmington with him the other day and moved him into his apartment and stuff and uh we were in Walmart and he said he said the only dad joke that's ever made me laugh and he goes I was in tears and he told it to me and it's really not that funny but uh you know I'm I'm gonna do it on behalf uh of for my son but he said uh uh what was it uh who's just like my kids and don't listen to this podcast but yeah he said uh he said what do you call a dog that gets caught out in the cold I don't know chili dog and I and I'm like really that's the only one you've ever laughed at that's the funniest one he's ever right right and I'm like I'm like I mean you know you lived with me your whole life and that's the funniest dad joke they just can't let go that's what it is but here here's the one I if a child refuses to take a nap is he resisting arrest oh my god I like the chili doglin better I have to say I have to say oh me all right oh wow no he's not he's leading the season he's got stuff to do um all right guys thanks for joining us this week we appreciate you guys and um uh Dan I appreciate you brother all right love y'all love y'all have a great week we'll see you sometime soon hopefully we'll see you Sunday God bless you