THE MUSICIAN'S SHED PODCAST: "TRUMPET LADY" MS. SYREETA THOMPSON

In this episode of The Musician’s Shed, Samar Newsome sits down with the incomparable Ms. Syreeta Thompson, known to the world as the "Trumpet Lady." Syreeta isn’t just a musician; she is a force of nature who has shattered glass ceilings in the male-dominated world of brass. From her early days "woodshedding" to find her signature tone to commanding the world’s biggest stages, her journey is a masterclass in discipline, versatility, and the power of mentorship.

In the Shed Today:

• Finding the Voice: Syreeta discusses the grueling process of developing a unique sound on an instrument as demanding as the trumpet.
• The Genre-Bender: How she navigated the different musical languages of neo-soul with Jill Scott and high-energy gospel with Bishop Hezekiah Walker.
• The Mentorship Blueprint: What do you learn when you’re caught between two worlds? Syreeta shares behind-the-scenes wisdom from her mentors:
  • Dr. Dorinda Clark Cole: Learning the spiritual authority and "hustle" of the legendary Clark Sisters.
  • Wynton Marsalis: Mastering the technical precision and historical weight of a Jazz icon.

Key Takeaways:

• Preparation Meets Opportunity: How being "stage-ready" allowed her to pivot between R&B and Gospel seamlessly.
• The Power of Association: Why choosing the right mentors (and actually listening to them) changed the trajectory of her career.
• Staying the Course: Advice for young instrumentalists on how to stay inspired when the practice room feels lonely.

"Mentorship isn't just about learning the notes; it's about learning how to carry the weight of the gift." — Syreeta Thompson

Connect with the Trumpet Lady:

• Instagram: @syreetathompson
• Website: [TrumpetLady.com]

Don’t forget to subscribe! If this episode dropped a "jewel" for you, leave us a review and share it with a fellow musician who needs that extra push today.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:11

Hey, this is Samar Newsome, and you're tuned in to the Musician Shed Podcast. That was good. Alright, so today we have with us one of my great friends, Miss Sarita. The uh trumpet, what do you call the trumpet lady? Trumpet lady. The trumpet lady. Trumpet lady. Alright, so um, and I'm just excited because this is a friend of mine who I've known for over 20, 20, is it 25?

SPEAKER_03 0:42

Well, don't don't call him out. Let's stay at 20 because you go too further. Over two decades. It's gonna tell her age.

SPEAKER_01 0:47

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So so over two decades. And I mean, you know, I've seen we we started at Ruckers together.

SPEAKER_02 0:54

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:55

Um, she she was a young trumpeter, I'm a young singer, you know, trying to trying to put our thing together, you know, trying to learn and get our skills up and stuff like that, which you know, you gotta be skilled in this business. And so, like, first of all, just tell us where you're from.

SPEAKER_03 1:12

Well, I'm originally from Chicago, Chicago, Illinois. Um, by way of New Orleans, Louisiana. Um, my family, my mother, my mother, they're all they are all Creole. And so my mother is French and I'm African-American, and my dad is just a southerner, and so they migrated to um Chicago, and but I still have a rich heritage in Louisiana. Like all my family is still in Louisiana, but I was born and raised in Chicago.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

Wow, wow, that's crazy that you say that because now that just reminded me. I just got to see the um the Louie Armstrong story, the documentary, which one on Apple? The uh not that one, the uh Broadway show.

SPEAKER_02 1:59

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:00

Wonderful World. What a wonderful world. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was it was amazing. And just learning his story, like how he started in New Orleans and ended up in Chicago, and then just of course tour LA, all the places. He's a trumpet player, it's one of the greatest things. Exactly. I'm like, yo, so you're walking in a nice lineage. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_03 2:19

He he him, um Joe King Oliver, you know. Does he follow him? Yeah, he for Joe King Oliver. You know, Joe King Oliver used to stand on before New Orleans was developed, he would stand on them on the hill, because they did have hills in New Orleans. Wow. And he was standing just practice and practice and practice. Wow. And so Louis Armstrong studied with Joe King, Joe King Oliver, and it's just a just a lineage.

SPEAKER_01 2:44

Yeah, I saw that in the in the um in the theater play. He he actually followed, he all actually went to Chicago because Joe King was there. Yeah. And so first Joe King was here in uh New Orleans, and then he followed him.

SPEAKER_03 2:58

And you know, Joe King Oliver, he was known for his sound, right? Because you could hear his sound was big and fat and round, and you could hear his sound across the entire city of New Orleans. Wow. So that's what made him Joe King Oliver. Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_01 3:16

Yeah, wow, that's amazing. Yeah, and again, you're you're from that same mud, if you uh Well, yeah, mud, not lineage, but definitely the mud, the mud of it.

SPEAKER_03 3:25

Yeah, definitely from the fabric.

SPEAKER_01 3:28

Your folks walk those same streets and were influenced by that same style, even all the way to Chicago.

SPEAKER_03 3:34

Yeah, all the way to all the way to Chicago. I never hadn't never thought about it like that. But yeah, because um, you know, even when I first started playing, you know, you you know, you have to develop your sound.

SPEAKER_01 3:44

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 3:45

And it's where do you develop your sound from? You know, you have to study the greats to develop your sound. Absolutely. And so I didn't study a lot of I, you know, I did my studies a little different. I studied, I started with more the urban, and then I the more I began to study, I went back to Joe King Oliver and understood uh how he and Louis Armstrong, their phrasing and the sound that they got out of the trumpet.

SPEAKER_01 4:15

Yeah, that's crazy. And a lot of um, I mean, trumpet, Louie's basically like the the goat when it comes to that stuff. And I see like even like Wenton Marshallis, also from New Orleans. Absolutely. Terrence Blanchard. Yeah, so y'all y'all got crazy.

SPEAKER_03 4:29

Well, Terrence is actually how I came get to the East Coast. Oh wow. Terrence and Wenton.

SPEAKER_02 4:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 4:35

Um, actually, I I I was in, I was just stud before I before you and I met at Southern, I mean at Rutgers, I actually went to Southern University. Okay, so you were in the band, marching bands. No, no, no. No, they ain't want girls. Wow. And I was okay with it.

SPEAKER_01 4:50

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:51

Yeah, I and I was okay with it. I because I was it's hot down there. Hot this is hot, you know, you know, it's like 95 degrees with the humidity of 90% out there in combat boots marching up and down, and they start in July with all them football games and stuff. So they didn't want um, they didn't want girls in the band. That's crazy. Oh, but you were good with it. I was fine with it because I didn't want to be in it. You know, I wanted to play gigs and stuff. So I went down there to study with Alvin Batiste. Oh, okay, the uncle of John Baptiste.

SPEAKER_01 5:25

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 5:25

Um, so Alvin Batiste is a he's from New Orleans too. He's from New Orleans. So Alvin Batiste is a jazz clarinetist. Okay. He created the tone row. So I went to Southern to study with him. And when I was at Southern, I was to chase Wenton around when they were going to the jazz festivals. Wow. And um, and I told him that I wanted to study with who he studied with. And he turned around, he said, Oh yeah. I said, he was like, they said, Oh yeah. I said, Yeah, absolutely. I said, I said, I don't want an autograph, I want to, I want a lesson. He said, Well then you need to go study with prof. I said, Well, where's prof? He said, He's up at in Mason Groves at Ruckers. That's how I got to Ruff. Yeah, and went and gave me a um his old trumpet case. Wow. And I carried it around, you know, because when somebody that famous give you something that you admire, it's like it was the raggediest trumpet case ever. But it's from him. It was the fact that he gave it to me. Right, right. He, you know, he gave, I mean, I mean it was raggedy, but the fact that he gave it to me was something that was it meant it meant a lot to me. So he's how I got to record.

SPEAKER_01 6:32

Wow. And I mean, that sense of history to be connected to it. Again, you are from New Orleans, he's from New Orleans. I mean, family-wise, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think that that's that's a connection that God puts together, those connections. Like that's not by chance, you know.

SPEAKER_03 6:47

You know, and I didn't think about it like that. Only thing I was thinking is I wanted to study the music, right?

SPEAKER_01 6:51

Right.

SPEAKER_03 6:52

I just wanted to be in the music. I just I had to go where the best was, and I had to study the music. It was all about the music.

SPEAKER_01 6:59

Wow, wow. So tell us about um now you came to from Chicago, you got to Mason Gross. What uh how was that studying with prof?

SPEAKER_03 7:11

Well, getting to Rutgers was tough because when I was in high school, I did I was the I was one of the top in high school. But then I didn't know what it take took to go to music school. Wow. And so I didn't get accepted to Mason Gross. Wow. I got accepted to Southern. When I was I transferred up to Mason Gross, like what two years? No, I no. I transferred, I came through Douglas College. Oh, wow. I came through Douglas College and then transferred into Mason Gross, then transferred out. And I graduated from Douglas College, but I still was able to get a music degree, a music degree, and study with prof. Wow. Because I didn't have what it took. I was when I auditioned for Mason Gross. I was there, they auditioned 25 trumpet players and I was 23 at the bottom. Wow. Because I uh I didn't know nothing, right?

SPEAKER_01 8:07

Right, right.

SPEAKER_03 8:07

And so um it's like it's formal.

SPEAKER_01 8:09

You knew something until like the formality.

SPEAKER_03 8:12

No, I didn't know nothing. What do you mean you didn't know nothing?

SPEAKER_01 8:14

No, I'm serious. I because Bat said to me, You couldn't be the best at high school and not know nothing. Well, because I knew how to play by ear. That's what I mean. That's what I mean. Like the formal stuff I'm saying.

SPEAKER_03 8:23

Yeah, but and that's what that's what that's what you needed to be in music school.

SPEAKER_01 8:26

No, I agree. Listen, that's what I told you my story. I I ended up leaving not because I wouldn't say I knew nothing. What I knew was not what I needed to know. Yeah, well, Bat told me.

SPEAKER_03 8:37

Let me tell you, Bat told me, he said, Mr. Bat, he said, you got a lot of talent, but you just don't know nothing.

SPEAKER_01 8:42

And I was and I was that's all like a nice southern way to say it.

SPEAKER_03 8:45

And guess what? I was like, I thought he was playing me a compliment. No, no, I really I thought he was he said, he said, you know, you got a lot of talent, you just don't know nothing.

SPEAKER_02 8:55

Right.

SPEAKER_03 8:56

And I was like, Yeah, I I really thought he was paying me a compliment. Literally. I did I had no clue that I didn't know anything.

SPEAKER_01 9:04

Right, right. You're like, yeah, well, I know, I know, I know what I know.

SPEAKER_03 9:07

I knew because I knew I was playing in church on Sunday.

SPEAKER_01 9:10

Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_03 9:11

Because that's what I grew up on playing in church. You know, so um, I would have still went off. But yeah, I grew up playing in church, so that's the only thing I knew.

SPEAKER_01 9:20

Wow. That's kind of crazy. I mean, I that's that's the same thing with me. I I was I was playing in church already, so it wasn't like you know, I like by the time I mean my ear was very, very good, very strong. But um you good my good my good my my ear was very strong. Very good. You know what? I never put that on an airplane. I don't know if we need to. You know how to do it quickly? Just way from the from the corner.

SPEAKER_03 9:55

How many musicians you didn't have?

SPEAKER_01 9:58

I've had a lot of musicians. We haven't started the podcast. You're the first podcast guest. Oh, really? Oh wife, thank you. Ladies first, wife, thank you. So, yeah, so um who were we?

SPEAKER_03 10:13

Oh, you was talking about we were talking about at Rutgers. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:16

Even for me, like Rutgers was a struggle for me. I was saying, like, I my first methods class, I realized like what they knew the the prior knowledge, I didn't have it. You know what I'm saying? Like in terms of that I do know because as a singer, you know, you can you can learn stuff uh by early. Right, really quick, yeah. Um, and I always felt like you know, this this school was for musicians and like band people that been in bands. Really, that's what you thought? That's what I felt. You really felt that way, Smart? Yeah, because that's why I left. So I left. For real? I left Mason Gross because I felt like it was it was more rigorous than I was ready for. And when I Well, because it's a conservatory model school. It was good. I won't say I won't say it was bad, but what I realized is that it wasn't like I would say, how would I say this? It wasn't as as good for a vocalist. That's how I felt.

SPEAKER_03 11:12

Because I felt like, you know, I was Westminster, that's why you went to Westminster.

SPEAKER_01 11:15

That was a vocalist because it's a vocal school, exactly. And the challenges like that, I think, are consistent amongst vocalists. I thought that you played the keyboard. I do play the keyboard.

SPEAKER_03 11:26

I never knew that you were a vocal major.

SPEAKER_01 11:28

I was a vocal major at Mason Bridge.

SPEAKER_03 11:30

I never knew that.

SPEAKER_01 11:30

Yeah, I mean, I played the keyboard, that's what I'm saying. Like, ear wise, I had good training, and I think it was the keyboard skills that allowed me to still look better than I was.

SPEAKER_03 11:40

I never knew that you were a vocal major someone.

SPEAKER_01 11:42

Yeah, I was a vocal major.

SPEAKER_03 11:43

Wait, I'm gonna tell Brennan.

SPEAKER_01 11:44

He probably didn't know that either. No, he used to get on me, like, you gotta practice your two fives. You gotta practice your two five.

SPEAKER_03 11:49

Yeah, you're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever. He's not like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:52

I don't even know what you're talking about.

SPEAKER_03 11:56

And neither do I care, you know?

SPEAKER_01 11:58

Later, I I realized, like, okay, he's talking about, you know, the case, the cadence, right? So yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But you know, I didn't I didn't understand that. Right. I get it. There were some basics I didn't know. And when I went to Westminster, I realized the importance of being in a place where they know what level you're at. And it can groom you. Yes. I mean, like, we started at the basics of reading, which made it easy. I mean, I don't want to say easy, but like easier. Yeah, yeah, yeah. To get through it. When you get in the the first dough, Rami, and not assuming that you know a lot of things because I didn't I didn't know how to read music. And in high school, you touched it, but that wasn't like part of the culture. I went to Urban, Irvington High School, and it wasn't like I see my story is different in Chicago.

SPEAKER_03 12:43

I went to a performing arts high school. Wow. And I studied with Mr. Vincent Chikowicz of the Chicago Symphony Orchestra. Wow. And at Shorer Conservatory, so I was taking private lessons the entire time.

SPEAKER_01 12:55

I just didn't know enough of what that, you know.

SPEAKER_03 12:58

I didn't know, like, you know, I was like, why I gotta be playing long tones all day long. And I wanted to get to the stuff, but I didn't know that was gonna lead me to it. And I had a uh I had a lesson with Rob McGaha. Oh he was the one the trumpet players for the Tommies. Okay, you know, and he was like, Um, do you know all your scales? I mean, like, he shut me down. He's like, Do you know all your scales? Of course I didn't I didn't know all my scales. He was like, Do you know your Dorian, your Phrygian, the disc, the modes, and I because I didn't think I need to know all that. Right, it's like the major in the church. I'm playing one note and playing whatever the line is, so I don't need to know all that.

SPEAKER_01 13:35

Right, right.

SPEAKER_03 13:36

So, but I did I needed to know it. Yeah, yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_01 13:39

Well, I mean, to be a well-rounded musician, you need to know. Yeah, and I'm glad I know. You need to know as much as you need to know, I mean as much as you can because there's so much to know. I mean, we're still learning, I know I am. Yeah, um, and I I discovered things like, oh, I don't know that, or even if I know it, I don't have it. You know what I'm saying? Like, I actually studied with somebody that really showed me, took it apart for me, a jazz musician, really dope dude. Um, my man, uh Shedric Mitchell. Yeah, okay. When I studied with Shedrick, I know Shedrick. I said, Okay, this is yeah, this is eye-opening. Not not that, look, I think I had great skills. Oh no, he's but when I came to him, it was like, bruh, you good. And you I look, I was a musical director at a at a no, he he knows he's he knows he was like put things in perspective, like you know it, but you don't know it.

SPEAKER_03 14:24

Yeah, when him he did um when I started working on this, the body of work that I'm getting working on now, he came in and and did it recording in one take.

SPEAKER_01 14:34

Yeah, he's amazing.

SPEAKER_03 14:35

Yeah, one take and very oh, just a wonderful person.

SPEAKER_01 14:38

Yeah, yeah, very good person. That's my guy. But yeah, so that again, that that that's late in my career too. Like just really getting a perspective of like this is really what it's like to have it, have it. You know what I'm saying? And and I I'm glad I did that was like around the pandemic. But I love that it happened because it gave me, it opened up my mind and it almost made me feel like I'm back in school again, and just kind of gave me a perspective on practicing and stuff like that. Like, you know, I was a good musician, but a lot I was a talented musician, like you said. So a lot of opportunities came from the talent, not necessarily the work. And I and I put in work, but not as much as I thought. I understand. Like now that I think about it, I'm like, yo, I put in a good amount of work, but not as much as I thought. And I got a lot of a lot of opportunities. And so, you know, I'm grateful that you know there was work that I still have to do and still got to do, but I still was able to ascend to different levels. And you know, again, now I'm still like, you know what, I'm still at it.

SPEAKER_03 15:38

No, but you you're playing at churches and stuff, you you know. I mean, you you're doing what you like to do, right?

SPEAKER_01 15:43

I'm enjoying it.

SPEAKER_03 15:44

See trumpet players, we can't do that, right?

SPEAKER_01 15:46

You have limited opportunities, very limited.

SPEAKER_03 15:49

Like you well, we can't hold a church service down because it's only three buttons, only three buttons up there, you know. If they, you know, you know, we can play the melody and that's it.

SPEAKER_01 16:00

Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_03 16:01

I got you know, nah, I'll play a line in between, you know, is it's very limited, so you have to find other means, right?

SPEAKER_01 16:10

You know, so that's that's a great segue. Let's talk about um your career now. Let's talk about like from college, you know, you got into the scene a little bit, and let's talk about what's what are some of the accomplishments you were able to do as a as a trumpeter. Now, as a as a seasoned and a uh colleged, you graduated from Douglas. What what are some of the things that you were able to do like career-wise after that?

SPEAKER_03 16:35

Well, when I left Ruckers, um it was all about me, I went to hang out on tour. So I moved to New York and I went to NYU. I got my master's degree at NYU. Nice. You know, while at NYU I did the Jill Scott tour. Nice. And I connected with um Was that with um Adam or who's at NYU? I was I was the on the on the first record, the very first the Who is Jill Scott record? Okay, and so from there, while I was doing that, I ended up connecting with Bishop Hezekiah Walker. Nice, and so but it's funny because I connected with him because I needed a church to go to. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 17:15

Not you just wanted to go to church because you've been in it for so long.

SPEAKER_03 17:19

And I knew the only thing I knew was playing my trumpet in church. Gotcha. I didn't know anything else, right? Anything else. So I was in grad I was in grad school and going to church, playing the trumpet. Nice. And then I was in while in grad school, I studied with um Frank Foster, jazz composant array composition arrangement. Okay. Um, Frank Foster, who's the arranger for the Calm Basie Orchestra. Wow. So I got a chance to really hone in on my arranging skills, um, arranging for big band at NYU and studying with Frank Foster. Nice. So that was that was a very big highlight. Um, I also studied with got a chance to study with um Maurice Andres of the New York Philharmonic. Nice, you know, so that was because it's very different, Ben and Jackson.

SPEAKER_01 18:08

Well, see, that's contrast.

SPEAKER_03 18:09

Like that's like classical and yeah, it's a it's a very different thought process um that I had to kind of really, I actually had to stop playing at church for a while. Wow. Because I had to embrace studying classical music and really for the technique, right? You know, um, really for the technique of it. And unfortunately, uh the classical world and gospel world don't communicate. Yeah, because it's two different thought processes, right? So that was a huge transition, but then you know, I I love Bishop Walker and I love Love Fellowship. So of course, you know, that but my mother was like, I sent you out of I sent you out there to go to school and get a degree. Right. I did not send you out there to be at that church all the time playing and not getting your master's degree. Right. So I had to kind of interfering with it? Absolutely. Well, because there were rehearsals all the time. There's rehearsals, there's touring, there's traveling.

SPEAKER_01 19:05

But I had to- What was that schedule like with Bishop Walker?

SPEAKER_03 19:10

Very rigorous. It was it was very so it was very rigorous. So I we have in order to I was with the church band, okay, not the crusade choir band. Gotcha, it's two different bands. Yeah, yeah. The church choir band, the church choir album and record came after the crusade had been for years, right? For years, Grammys, everything. Yes, so that they won one Grammy with the Crusade Choir album. Callin' My Name album.

SPEAKER_01 19:37

I was on a Love Is Live album, okay, and so that with the culmination of some of the other songs, like they did those songs live or something.

SPEAKER_03 19:45

Yeah, so Love is Live, we recorded live, okay, you know, and and I forgot what year it was, but we recorded that live. So the rehearsal schedule alone, it depends on when it comes times for recording or just number one. All the songs before Bishop Walker records are sung and performed years ahead of recording.

SPEAKER_01 20:08

I heard that. So and the the the writer actually comes and teaches the song, absolutely, right?

SPEAKER_03 20:13

So you get the feel of it, yeah. But it's rehearsed before that's the reason why it's so there's so much perfection. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Y'all been singing it for years. You've been singing it for years, playing it, the musicians got their records. But then, but when it comes time to record, it's a different, rigorous schedule, okay, then but like on uh our there's a travel schedule, service schedule, and then there's a recording schedule.

SPEAKER_01 20:36

Okay, tuck us through those because I think this is the kind of stuff that I think people don't know. Really? Okay, oh absolutely they don't know. I think I think you know, again, perspective, you know what I'm saying? Like if you haven't done it, number one, you wouldn't know.

SPEAKER_03 20:48

Well, you know, nobody's ever asked me these questions.

SPEAKER_01 20:50

Oh, but these are this this is the stuff. Like, yeah, nobody's nobody's ever on each of those things, what those schedules look like.

SPEAKER_03 20:56

Okay, so the preparation before recording is totally different than the musician at the church because we wore two hats. I was a musician at the church, but just so happened the church, I was part of the church band that traveled with Bishop Walker and the choir to perform. So we had to be a Tuesday night Bible study.

SPEAKER_01 21:16

That's because they want you to have the foundation.

SPEAKER_03 21:18

You gotta have the foundation and you gotta be in it.

SPEAKER_01 21:20

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:21

And you gotta be in it, you gotta be able to serve, and you have to have the spirit of your passion.

SPEAKER_01 21:25

So all the musicians were there, all the musicians were there.

SPEAKER_03 21:28

Wow, and we had to be in prayer.

SPEAKER_01 21:30

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 21:30

Prayer started at seven. We couldn't be walking in at 7 15.

SPEAKER_02 21:34

Right.

SPEAKER_03 21:35

We had to be there at 7 on our knees in prayer. Wow. From prayers from 7 to 8, and then Bishop Walker would come down. We would be in Bible study about 8, 8 15 to about 9 30. Sometimes we would rehearse after Bible study.

SPEAKER_02 21:51

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 21:52

And so that rehearsal will start about 9 45 and it would go to 11 30 midnight. And then that was Tuesday and then on a regular Tuesday. Yeah, yeah, on a regular Tuesday. And then on Wednesday, we had musicians rehearsal. Okay. That started at five, but we really didn't start to six. Okay. Because everybody got to get there. Yeah. Gotta get there. Um, people gotta get there. That's just musicians rehearsal.

SPEAKER_01 22:16

And what is that like? How much time was that?

SPEAKER_03 22:19

Um, we started set five. Well, you get there at five, you don't start to six. We would go to 9:30, 10, 10 o'clock.

SPEAKER_01 22:26

Like four-hour rehearsal? Yes. Just the band itself.

SPEAKER_03 22:28

And that's that's for Sunday, or that's for like what's that's for that's for Sunday and preparing for a recording.

SPEAKER_01 22:36

Okay, so how many songs? So you would be doing the songs on Sunday that are gonna be in the recording? Did you know?

SPEAKER_03 22:42

They don't don't, they don't no, it doesn't go like that.

SPEAKER_01 22:44

So when it so you said you would perform these songs for two years ahead of time, but though you'll be performing them on gigs, or they just be Sunday morning songs, okay.

SPEAKER_03 22:54

So you did, but not specifically for the recording. Gotcha. Because when they recorded for the recording, it's just okay, we're gonna do this one, we're gonna do that one.

SPEAKER_02 23:01

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_03 23:02

It it's already in the we already got the we already got it in the bag, we already got it already.

SPEAKER_01 23:06

So that was just but you worked them out, it's almost like you shared it them on the bag.

SPEAKER_03 23:10

Absolutely, yeah on Sunday and in rehearsal, but then when it came to recording, we added other little small nuances to to perfect it, and then we performed it again on maybe it depends on what Bishop will call. He may not recall what we rehearsed on Sunday, right? Right, right. Which would be we would all be upset. It's like that, you know. Well, no, because no, I'm like, I want to play my line, you know. I didn't rehearse this line, I ain't got a chance to play my line. Did that, you know, that's me as a trumpet player. Yeah, so you know, the rehearsals. I mean, we had and we nailed, we had to rehearse and rehearse, and then he would come to musician rehearsal. Bishop Walker came to musician's rehearsal, right? And then, you know, he would tell us what he liked and what he did not like. Wow, you know, um, and he listened to every part, he knew every part of the song, he knew my parts of the song. Wow, and then he would ask me, Um, sweetie, you got your part down, you got your horn lines down, I need to hear this, I need to hear that. He knew, and we all had parts, right?

SPEAKER_01 24:04

Right, right. So, um, we got that. That's something to dissect right there.

SPEAKER_03 24:08

Yeah, we all had, and I was the only g woman in the band, girl in the band. Wow, you know, I was that literally, you know, I was but so we all had parts. So like Juan, he played the organ part, Greg Kelly played the piano, right?

SPEAKER_02 24:23

Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_03 24:24

Rob played brass, and then me, I was the top line for the brass, Dwayne on bass, Keith on guitar, and Jeffrey on drums. Okay, we didn't have a percussion, wow, but we all had parts to play, like it wasn't just like you're just playing, and that's I'm gonna be honest with you.

SPEAKER_01 24:40

I mean, like that that's something that I learned through Hezekiah Walker really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. As a young musician, you know, studying like the albums with like how much we can bear and stuff like that. You hear the parts very distinctly. Yeah, and we all have parts, you hear the guitar and in parts, not like you know, just everybody playing the same chord, you know, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_03 25:03

We just it was it was you hear specific parts, and that was all intentional. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 25:08

I that that's that's that's to me one of the most professional things about like you think about Bishop Walker, you think about James Hall. They also the same way, yeah, sure, sure. Like Melvin and um and my man, I forget the keyboard player.

SPEAKER_03 25:20

Like all those interesting things. But all of those things like all of that was very intentional. Even like the parts that I played were very intentional. Serenita, why don't you take the solo here? Yeah, double the light. Like, but the beauty about you know, um, the Levites, our band was that we had a lot of non-verbal communication. It wasn't a lot of discussing of okay, you play that part, they play that part. It was like it actually was so because we were connected in prayer. Oh, yeah. And you know, we were connected in prayer. A lot of stuff like Joanna play a line, I pick up on that line, or Rob would play a line, I pick up on, or I play a line, and then Rob pick up the line, and so oh, let's do that right there. But Juwan will always leave with the signal to where where to place that line at, or Jeffrey would leave with the drumstick or something like that. We uh we had a count off, and we know, but you know, um like newborn soul. You know, we all know that bump bump.

SPEAKER_01 26:27

Yeah, all gonna be.

SPEAKER_03 26:32

We knew when Ronald went like this, we knew that was the time to go daun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun. You know, we knew, you know, and Juan would look back and go like that. And so we knew that was that time to play that part. Yeah, and we had because the form, the form, the format of the song was it was the band and the choir.

SPEAKER_02 26:55

Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_03 26:57

It wasn't the choir, it wasn't the band following the choir. No, it was the band and the choir moving, right? It was the band and the choir moving in sync together, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:08

Because even at that part of the song, is that's when they go, Do you know him? Do you know my Jesus? That's when they repeat that.

SPEAKER_03 27:13

Do you know my Jesus? Do you know him?

SPEAKER_01 27:16

Now they're just gonna say, Do you know her? Do you know him?

SPEAKER_03 27:19

And then, but then also, too, the breakdown was the bass. We know there's some hits coming up there, too. Okay, gotcha. Uh, uh, uh, and that was on my console. They flat, beat flat. Yeah, yeah. You know, and we had to hit those hits. And but like we and we had to watch each other when that romantic.

SPEAKER_01 27:43

Or verbal, I should be. It was definitely not a line. Y'all didn't have like uh the MD microphones and all that stuff.

SPEAKER_03 27:48

No one, no ears, and it's that's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 27:51

Because that's so, I mean, look, it's it's helpful. So let me ask you this what do they be saying in those ears? Oh, you can say anything. I mean, people people could be talking about people, but I mean it's really So is that what they're saying in the ear? I mean, not that's not I don't know, but I I know, but I mean the it's really just communication. I mean, but there's competition. Are we going to the bridge? Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Because I mean, I mean, you you gotta think. There's I mean, where we grew up in, and because I I've seen Hezekiah Walker in them live. I saw you playing with them live, and they it was just it was just musicians playing that was locked in. Yeah, you know, and you know, not not like, hey, all right, guys, this is the bridge, or da-da-da.

SPEAKER_03 28:28

That's you gonna miss a whole part by the time you talk through that.

SPEAKER_01 28:31

No, no, no. I mean, there's an art to it, there's a there's a there's a way to do it, like in terms of doing it ahead of the time. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, okay, he would go five four more bars that knows the whole song and couldn't. Okay, it kind of guides everybody through it. Like I was on a gig where the MD was actually singing the next line that has to be sung.

SPEAKER_03 28:48

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_01 28:49

Okay, I mean he did it in rehearsal, it's like, yeah, we're gonna put it in the stems, and sometimes they'll put it in the stems, so you miss you don't miss anything because you're gonna get a little cue for anything. And like I said, it's helpful. Yeah, sure. To me, it could make you a little lazy because you don't have to remember anything. You don't have to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_03 29:05

Well, see, that's what I'm sitting there saying. Because and and and that's a whole thing, right?

SPEAKER_01 29:10

That's a whole different new culture.

SPEAKER_03 29:12

You know what? I'm gonna tell you why, because that that and to your point, you know, it can bring down the music, your musicianship level, because it make you not pay attention. You know, you think, yeah, it make you not pay attention, right? You know, like but like with Bishop Walker, we had to pay attention because number one, we didn't know what song he was gonna call. Yeah, and so but we had to have all the songs rehearsed to perfection when he called them.

SPEAKER_01 29:39

Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_03 29:40

You know, and if he didn't like a song, he'll go uh part. If there's a part he'll he'll shake his head in a heartbeat. Because he's a perfectionist. A lot of people don't know he's really a professionalist.

SPEAKER_01 29:50

No, he's it I think it shows in his career and how uh long and strong his career is going because absolutely he's he's he's he's and he knows what he wants. Yeah, yeah. It's like almost unspoken that um that he's a master at what he does. He's like ridiculous. Hold on one second. Yeah, um hit um the control and the eject button, which is in the top right, left corner, left corner. I got it. I don't know why he's doing that, because I said it, but maybe the time and the time. Yeah. I wish I could freeze it on here, but that's all right. We'll edit, we'll edit that. Yeah, yeah, you can freeze that and edit that. Yeah, so I mean, yeah, definitely his is like one of the best that we've ever known, honestly.

SPEAKER_03 30:36

And and his sound is so distinct, like well, and also he sticks he stays true to who he is. Yeah, and his his his whole mantra is uh songs for church, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:49

And they and he's consistently done it. Like there's always something you hear from him that you're like, oh, that could be on a Sunday morning, right there.

SPEAKER_03 30:57

And that and that's what and that's what that's what he's about. Yeah. Sunday morning church service.

SPEAKER_01 31:02

So it's that's crazy, man. I mean, and his career is way longer, even than we know because he was doing it before before we really knew it. He was already having like his own career.

SPEAKER_03 31:12

I didn't even really know who he was when I first came to the church.

SPEAKER_01 31:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 31:15

I I remember I was coming from Chicago, Chicago, and I came from a a a trained background of classical and jazz.

SPEAKER_01 31:27

Gotcha. Gotcha. You know, that wasn't that had nothing to do with gospel. No, like I played in church, right?

SPEAKER_03 31:33

But I didn't know anything about playing in a I knew about playing in a band, but not in a gospel professional band.

SPEAKER_01 31:41

Right. You know, you know, I knew professional touring recording.

SPEAKER_03 31:45

I had no clue of any of that, so I had to step rise to the occasion. Right. You know, like like I give you, I tell you a funny story. Um we were doing a reunion, they were doing a I don't know, Easter concert or something like that. And I was responsible for the horns. I'm like, okay, oh, I'm gonna write these parts out. And so for me, that's a big thing.

SPEAKER_01 32:06

You know, they do an Easter concert every year, like a big one, yes.

SPEAKER_03 32:11

But I was gonna write the and we did the Tommies, and I'm like, oh man, I'm gonna write these. Because, you know, as a musician and an arranger, for you to sit and write out music is a big thing. And so I had my scoring pad, you know. This this is the honest guy store. I had my scoring pad and everything. I'm writing out measure by measure to the song, you know, because this is what I was trained to do, right? Not knowing that I was walking into an environment that they don't use any of that. You don't use none of that, but see, I mean, I don't know that though.

SPEAKER_01 32:42

I mean, but it's still important tools. I mean, like, I've been on gigs where I've written all of the charts out, and then only for the arrangement to be basically at the at the helm of whoever's leading. And that's and that's what it was.

SPEAKER_03 32:56

The arrangement didn't matter because we still didn't account measures, exactly, and they in a whole different place.

SPEAKER_01 33:01

But I but but I but I find that it's important to have that, like as especially like uh horns and stuff like that. Like, you can't direct, like I could, I could use any horns when I have uh the charts. I could just get guys that guys or girls who can play and just say, here, this is the chart. We're counting them in and and and all what they're at. If they if they know the style, because sometimes this the rhythms are a little bit more syncopated, but well, what it taught me was number one, don't be so rigid, right?

SPEAKER_03 33:29

Because coming from classical, classical is very exact, it's what's on the paper. That's and then but see man, I came from that, not knowing that in gospel you can't be exact, right? So that was a big that was a huge transition for me, you know, and and in jazz, everything is somewhat exact, right? You know, with a very little leeway, right? But you know, jazz is more note specific, but classical is more time specific. But when you go into gospel, you have to have mesh mesh both together and feel and flexibility, yeah. But I didn't know that. I'm trying to, and so I'm looking at the chart that I wrote and I'm trying to figure out why are they not at measure 38? Why do you know so I that was a big transit and that's why I just had to throw it out?

SPEAKER_01 34:14

Yeah, you just gotta like okay, I think we're here, or or find it, find your place, and find different cues. Yeah, I had to find, I didn't know as I didn't know what I just and I think I think what you adopt as a system of just instead of having a rigid like measure by measure, you just kind of have parts, like okay, this section, then this one. I never thought about like that. Yeah, I mean, I mean, uh I I know plenty of musicians, and I've I've brought in some musicians that were really rigid like that, um, to gospel situations, you know, they don't do well that you know what it is again, it's about approach because these are some of the guys, and I mean you're talking about Juilliard musicians, high-level musicians, and what we would do is we we did gigs on um, you know, on the like cover band circuit, you know, casinos, all that stuff. And so what I learned being a musical director in that situation was that you gotta give them something to follow. So they can still have the music, but it's like you gotta know you gotta cue when to read. Yes, and and then cue like, okay, now it's off, and then now we're and then they they they would talk amongst each other, say, okay, we're coming in at 38, yeah, and then be like, okay, and we start here. And they would kind of conduct these themselves through the music, yes, because nobody else is using the music, right? Right, right. Singers not using the music, yeah, rhythm's not using the music. And they and they glued to the paper. And I mean, a lot of times we would bring in subs, and the sub, that's all they got is the music. They don't have any idea, like, okay, we do this more times than was written.

SPEAKER_03 35:44

Yeah, because that thing they're gonna be asking questions now. Where's the van? What measures this and what measures that?

SPEAKER_01 35:48

Oh, we're repeating this, yeah, and where do we go back to to repeat that? You know, so yes, yeah, yeah. Definitely a learning curve. And but again, if you're a musician, I think you should learn all of those things. Yes, you should have all of those skills and have the flexibility. Not everybody's gonna use it because I think if you're if you're in a New York Philharmonic, you're gonna be in the New York Philharmonic, you're gonna do things that way. But if you're somebody who's gonna do things in a more diverse way, like, okay, I want to play a little bit of this, I might do a jazz gig, I might do a gospel gig. You gotta diversify, you have to rethink in all of that. Absolutely, yeah. Absolutely. Out of all of the places you've been, now we talked about um those different scenarios, the schedule. We didn't get too far into the schedule, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:33

Oh, yeah. So going back to the schedule, um, Sunday morning, we had to be at church by 10 15 because we had to be in prayer 15 minutes to 11. Wow. So we had to be um prayer was with just musicians and the choir. So service started at 11, 11:30. 11:30, I believe. So we prayed at 10:45 because you had to have sound check and we had to have musicians, musicians' prayer.

SPEAKER_01 36:58

So how so that's a 45 minutes before the service starts, your guys would get there, and that's for prayer and sound check. Prayer, sound check. Can you touch about something? I gotta talk about something. I was just at a gig and I actually I had a gig in London. And one of the the headliners, they probably did a two-hour sound check. And when I say, like one of the other artists we were talking, he's like, Is this sound check or rehearsal? Have you been in those scenarios? And I'm not probably not with heads, but like in other places, those two.

SPEAKER_03 37:28

Okay, so when we did Radio City Music Hall, the setup all day started at 8:30 in the morning.

SPEAKER_01 37:34

Now that's different because you don't you you don't rehearse in that space, so you're actually in Radio City, yes, with all of the recording stuff well, you gotta get set up first.

SPEAKER_03 37:43

That's what I'm saying. You gotta get set up to the setup time, the setup time, but the sound check was going rehearsing this we're going through the songs. But no, but we rehearsed way before Radio City, like yeah. So, like, like okay, uh like as you were saying, like the rehearsal time, uh going to that like Radio City music hall. If that concert's on that Saturday night, we rehearse that entire week. Gotcha, gotcha.

SPEAKER_01 38:07

Because it's a recording, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:08

Starting at five o'clock, and we will go to 12, 1, 2, and 3 in the morning. Right Monday, Monday through if Radio City is on that Saturday, we start rehearsing on that Monday. Actually, that's Sunday before after service. Wow, you know, it's like you know, church, go get something to eat, come back and rehearse, and so that's why we all were so tight, yeah. Yeah, I had like a family yeah, because we were around each other most of the time, so we you know, so we had to rehearse like places like Radio City, and so when people hear, but like the day of the setting up is insane, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:38

I'm sure, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_03 38:39

Oh, it's a lot of details, it's a lot of details, and then the band, you know. Well, me, I'm the last one, it's just a microphone, you know, right, right, right.

SPEAKER_01 38:48

But I still had to have it's still mixed, it's still, you know, all of those layers, yeah, and then when in Union Hall, so you know they take a two-hour break.

SPEAKER_03 38:55

Yeah, you're on their schedule, right? Then and Bishop, he didn't come to sound check, right? The band did the sound check, and then like Ron Lord Craig, they did his microphone because he was busy doing the directors, he was busy doing other things in preparation for everything. Absolutely, and then but then when so we would be at radio city, we would be at the hall at 8:39 in the morning. Wow, and we didn't go until 10 o'clock that night, right?

SPEAKER_01 39:17

But y'all getting in place, putting things together. I mean, like, so that makes sense. But now the situation I was in, one, I'll I'll tell you a few, like, because you know, I've been in church situations where you know you get you have a lot of time, and so because you have the time, you use the time, sure, but a lot of the time ends up being used for rehearsal, sure. It's like like we know the music or we don't know the music, really. That's what it comes down to. But even like this thing in London, there was the headliner. You're the headliner, you're gonna get some time. But I mean, they were in there like rehearsing the songs, and not necessarily like like fix this thing in the microphone, they would actually go through a whole song and then be like, Yeah, I feel like my microphone is like, I'm like, Yeah, you could have said that, like a line into your verse, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_03 40:02

Like, well, that sounds sound like someone is not professional.

SPEAKER_01 40:05

Well, you said it not professional. You know, but yeah, you're more professional. That's what we were saying. Like, because then one of the artists who toured around the world uh with Madonna, he said, Listen, I'm gonna get up there and it's gonna, I'm gonna sing a couple of lines of my song, make sure my ears, my monitor is right, and that's it. That's really what it is. Like, it's not, oh, you know, this this this wedge is not the same as this, and you know, and again, those are things, those are details, but like you're a background singer though, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because the lead singers ain't come, it's the background singer. So, I mean, again, these things happen, but I think that you gotta normally deal with that because sound check is sound check, rehearsal is rehearsal, yeah. And I think there's a time frame for both.

SPEAKER_03 40:49

I agree with you, and I think you should rehearse at home before you come to a professional situation because um, you know, like being someone that has played in a band and then person, I've been in both scenarios. I've been the person out front and I've been the person behind the scenes. Yeah. When you person behind the scenes are part of a band, and there's other I like I personally feel that musicians are geniuses because we have to work in any and every kind of environment. Yeah, the same thing that you do at a small club or in a small is the same thing that you do on a big stage. And we work with so many different personalities. Yeah, and the reason I also feel that music is the most univers is the universal language because you and I A is A and America, Russia, China, yeah, just Czechoslovakia is gonna always be A. Yeah, you know A44 A. Yeah, A4 is gonna always be that way. But now the person that when you're in the forefront, the lead person that did the headliner, you don't have time to deal with all of those things because there's so many other things that's going on. You're dealing with press, you're dealing with staff, you're dealing with PR that you gotta deal with, you gotta deal with the promoter, you deal with a lot of things that musicians don't even know about that that are happening. You're dealing with tour managers, you're dealing with it's a whole nother tickets gotta be sold. Sometimes ticket sales are short, and so the artist has to know about those things.

SPEAKER_01 42:16

Yeah, yeah, you know, that you're you're privy to more information.

SPEAKER_03 42:20

Yeah, the musicians' job is to show up and play the music, yeah, and that's it. Yeah, you know, now do we get all that all the time? Sometimes they're fun, but I think that goes into professionalism, yeah, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 42:31

For sure. Um, that's good.

SPEAKER_03 42:33

Oh, I was gonna finish telling you about the schedule.

SPEAKER_01 42:35

Yeah, so I mean you so we started you said Bible studies on um Tuesday, and I think I interrupted you about the prayer and Bible study. That's okay. What what else do you have?

SPEAKER_03 42:45

Oh, okay. So that was that schedule when we're getting ready to travel. We still kept it.

SPEAKER_01 42:50

So hold on, before you get there, yes, Tuesday. Uh this was I think this was just a Sunday schedule. Regular Sunday, yeah. This is a Tuesday study.

SPEAKER_03 42:58

A weekly schedule Bible study and prayer, Wednesday musician rehearsal, um, Thursday uh band rehearsal and then choir rehearsal, and then Friday, it sometimes we had to travel. Okay, and then be back for Sunday morning service. Then on the Friday night, we would have to depends on, you know, we may have to go to LA.

SPEAKER_01 43:18

So you just have one day off Monday.

SPEAKER_03 43:20

Pretty much, yes. Wow, and but if it was like a Broadway schedule. If it was if it was recording time, there is no Monday off.

SPEAKER_01 43:26

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 43:26

Because we had to be tight.

SPEAKER_01 43:28

No, I'm gonna ask a question. You don't have to answer it if you're as a musician in a I would call a very high-level band, high-level recording choir. Cause I'll uh I'm gonna ask another question. Yeah, yeah, ask in a way. I'm gonna open books. Cause I know a lot of musicians, one of the draws of any gig is pay. So if you got me out six days out the week, my question is gonna be like, what you paying me? Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, absolutely. So did you feel like the uh you don't have again? I answered. You could just tell me what it was, like not what it was, but like was it comparable to spending six days, or was it like you really paid for this one thing or these couple things, but you you're you're volunteering these other days?

SPEAKER_03 44:17

No. Um it wasn't. Um the recordings, yes. Okay, you know, but the That probably had a record label budget to it or something like that. Yeah, but yes. Now it's funny that you should even say that because the you know, at the time where I was at in my career, and and I can always speak, I can speak, I could speak for the rest of most of the band too. We all wanted to be there, right? Right. I I say I know that sounds real bad. No, no, no. I understand that we all wanted to be there, right? You know, and we love Bishop Walker, right? And we love our church, and we love because he ingrained that in us. Right. That's why, even if you probably talk to someone, we all it we all probably sound the same a little bit, probably. You know, um, but was the pay uh worth six days? No, it was it just wasn't, right? You know, it just wasn't, but we all wanted to be there, so I don't think we focused on the pay.

SPEAKER_01 45:13

Right, right, right, right.

SPEAKER_03 45:14

You know, um which is important then the old and then also too the when you're younger, you don't have the same responsibilities, right? You know, right in life, like that yeah, you don't have any of the you know, you're part I'm just apartment living, living in New York, I'm having myself a good time because remember, remember that was Bishop Walker's recording scores. I was a part of remember, I people don't know this. I actually told Bishop too when we was interviewing for my film. I I was going down to the blue note afterwards, right? Right, so you at the church my day didn't end at 11 o'clock, right? My day ended at 3 a.m. in the morning. Wow, because I was going to jam sessions, yeah, yeah, you know, me and Brandt was going to hit at smalls.

SPEAKER_01 45:54

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 45:55

So I would go to church, go to my rehearsal and everything.

SPEAKER_01 45:57

Then I was then you go hang out. Then I'm going to hang out because I'm going to sit in and play and play some jazz, which is the the lifestyle of a jazz music.

SPEAKER_03 46:06

And that's what I was. So I, you know, I was having myself a good time. I was doing music 24-7. Wow. I was I I my mindset was I got I went took care of my spiritual. Now I'm going to play and take care of music. You know, I'm I got my spirit. This is what I did. Yeah, and I went to go play music. I was so I was playing music all day long.

SPEAKER_01 46:28

Right.

SPEAKER_03 46:28

And I was having a good time.

SPEAKER_01 46:29

Yeah, that's great.

SPEAKER_03 46:31

That's literally how I was thinking about it.

SPEAKER_01 46:33

All right, so all right. So now let's let's change a little bit. So it's a recording time. What was that schedule like?

SPEAKER_03 46:41

Monday through, Monday through Sunday, every every day we're recording. Musician rehearsal will start after service on on Sunday, and actually on Saturdays we were rehearsed.

SPEAKER_02 46:51

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 46:51

Um, we were heard, we started around 12 or 1. We were in around 6 or 7 because we had to be back the next day. Wow. And so musicians rehearsal started after service to go get some come back. Start at 5, Quiary come in at 8.

SPEAKER_01 47:02

And how how far out from the recording were you guys doing this recording? Two two to three months. Months of weekly recording? Yes. Of rehearsals, I should say. Wow. Because it's it has to be perfect. You got to get it there, yeah. Yeah, it has to be and this is after knowing those songs, though. It's not like you didn't know those songs. Like this is after you're gonna do a new song today. Oh no, these are songs you know, but now you're working on nuance, you're working on and perfecting parts and things like that.

SPEAKER_03 47:28

You know, the choir in those rehearsals too? Yes, okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:32

Absolutely. Wow, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:34

And Bishop is there, he, you know. I mean, now we all looking scruffy, we all, you know, yeah, well, because we we're putting in the work. Yeah, you know, I mean, we're putting in the work. We all in sweats and we done sweat it out, play it all. I mean, you know, we need water and everything, you know.

SPEAKER_01 47:49

It's work. Like, I mean, anything. It's a much rehearsal or anything.

SPEAKER_03 47:52

No, and no one knew that that's what it took. That's what it takes.

SPEAKER_02 47:55

That that's what it took to get the sound, yeah, that consistency, the consistency of the sound. Wow.

SPEAKER_03 48:01

And this is not talking about overdubs afterwards. Yeah, so that's why when we recorded, to hit that choir sounded like that on Sunday morning.

SPEAKER_01 48:09

I mean, that's still one of the best.

SPEAKER_03 48:10

And that was no overdubs, right?

SPEAKER_01 48:12

Right, right.

SPEAKER_03 48:13

The band sounded just like that. When we went to do overdubs, it was adding some percussion, yeah, yeah, yeah. Stuff like that, but everything was clean, everything was how it was. Then we didn't, we didn't, we did not go in the studio and do overdubs of keyboards and none of that clean because it was you already had it, and also, too, you get that's how you get the live feel that was there.

SPEAKER_01 48:35

Yeah, yeah. That's great. All right, so let me ask you this question How has those experiences with Bishop Walker contributed to your musicianship today?

SPEAKER_03 48:46

Well, a lot of people don't know this, but he gave me the name Trumpet Lady. You know, um, matter of fact, we were doing a photo shoot and for Love is Live, and we were, you know, and he says, he says, Sarita, I think you should take this with your trumpet. And I was like, really, okay. And everybody in the band had a name, you know, um, and he's just starting calling me trumpet lady. Wow, and so that's how I became Trumpet Lady. So his discipline, um, his discipline, first of all, he's such a great man of character and integrity, but his discipline as an artist and as a business person uh really taught me a lot. And but also too, keep in mind I was at Lincoln Center with Winton during that time too. Remember, I was doing music 24-7.

SPEAKER_02 49:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 49:35

So when I was, because I was in grad school too. So the days I wasn't with Bishop Walker, because rehearsal started at five, right? I was at Lincoln Center, right? Up at Lincoln Center with Winton in the pit. Right. I was like the little sister to them. Gotcha. So I was learning, I was getting both, I would go from Lincoln Center to to Brooklyn to rehearsal. So having two different types of artists, you know, Winton is classical and jazz, and Bishop Walker's is gospel, but their worth ethic is the same. Right. You know, so what I learned most from Bishop Walker is his discipline as an artist, how he treated people, how he also how he ran his staff. That's what I picked up from him. How he navigated things. A lot of people don't know that Bishop Walker was always present, even though you didn't see him. Wow. He was always present, he knew everything that's going on. There's time Bishop sometimes he couldn't come downstairs to rehearsal, but he knew everything. He knew every song we were rehearsing, he knew everything that was going on.

SPEAKER_01 50:42

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 50:43

And and he knew every song in every part.

SPEAKER_01 50:47

That's amazing. I mean he was sad, he's savvy like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it just shows like his he's not a fly by night artist, he's somebody who grinded when he needed to grind and still understands that and still approaches his his business that way.

SPEAKER_03 51:03

And also I've I learned how to how he put everything he has done, he's done with excellence. Um Radio City Music Hall, the concerts on Easter, you know, that I mean, which are still going on, you know, they're done with excellence.

SPEAKER_01 51:21

Yeah, they're they're they're it's crazy because you you you know, in a local setting, you'll see concerts all the time, right? And you know, they're just called the midnight musical.

SPEAKER_03 51:31

Yeah, and he knows everything that's going on in that moment.

SPEAKER_01 51:34

But his concert is literally a concert that you would pay for at a bigger place, yeah. And he's just putting on an Easter concert. I remember my cousin was playing for Youthful Praise. He played Trombone, yeah, and and it was it was one of Hezda's concerts. And he has his peers are there, all of the artists that you love, and people just want to come and be apart, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 51:55

And they and and also everybody just wanna come in. Like one thing I what I also learned and I had learned to appreciate was the camaraderie of artistry.

SPEAKER_01 52:08

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 52:08

You know, that's so remember saying how like we just wanted to be there, yeah. You know, we really all liked each other. Yeah, that's great, you know, and when if there was a falling out, we talked about it. Yeah, like he would chew us out. We got chewed out. I've got chewed out before, yeah, you know. Um, we would talk about it. You know, I mean, family, you're gonna have you're gonna have problems, you know. You know, but we all wanted to be there, like, so it's like, you know, like just like how you and I haven't seen each other in 20 plus years, we just pick up where we left off and that's just gonna it's the exact same thing, you know. If he calls me right now, I'm gonna pick up and go.

SPEAKER_02 52:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 52:46

Because that's because that's just how we operate. Oh, well, any anybody from you know, so I I learned that from him. Everything he's done, he does it with excellence. You know, everything is done with excellence. Um and also he doesn't spare any expense for perfection.

SPEAKER_01 53:02

That's great. That's great to hear. All right.

SPEAKER_03 53:07

No, no, no.

SPEAKER_01 53:10

I ain't gonna get it too.

SPEAKER_03 53:11

His production, his production. No, I'm sure, I'm sure. He's special.

SPEAKER_01 53:14

But you know, like, so here's the thing. As a musician, you know, like there's gigs, and on gigs, you know, the whoever's paying you gonna pay you based on whatever the gig is. I've seen I've seen Love Fellowship before, and I've seen them on a gig in North. Right, right, right, right, right, right. And I've seen, you know, musicians like, yo, better have my money, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, just the regular gig stuff.

SPEAKER_03 53:40

It's a yeah, and see that I think those things kind of go into, but remember also we were the church band. Right. So we were we were already connected.

SPEAKER_01 53:48

We were connected to we were connected.

SPEAKER_03 53:52

It's a gig mentality. Yeah, yeah. We we we didn't we were not gig musicians, right? Because we were connected to the church. The other thing is too, and I want to share this with you.

SPEAKER_01 54:01

There's some churches outplayed that where, you know, outside of the church service, it's a gig, you know, right? But what I'm saying is to a lot of the musicians.

SPEAKER_03 54:11

But what I mean is this, and and and this is on God, on God. Uh when I say we function because we wanted to be there, okay, like one time, and Bishop knows this. Um, we were in LA. He took us shopping.

SPEAKER_01 54:25

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 54:26

A lot of people don't know those things.

SPEAKER_01 54:28

Right.

SPEAKER_03 54:29

I think that same time in LA, or another time in LA, we took his limo. Wow. And we went joy riding and ate on fake. Wow, that's great. You know, you know what I mean? So like I think we kind of like I think that was that was great.

SPEAKER_01 54:45

That was a good thing.

SPEAKER_03 54:46

But you know, I honestly think we like the perks better.

SPEAKER_01 54:48

Right, right, right, right.

SPEAKER_03 54:49

You know, like I never get one time, me, him, and Juwan went to the Cheesecake Factory. Not Cheesecake Factory, but juniors. Okay, in Brooklyn. In Brooklyn. Like when I graduated from my master's degree, he was one of my adjudicators.

SPEAKER_01 55:00

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 55:01

You know, and my mother made tuna. I was so serious. It was, it was the simplest things like that. He was, you know, he he was one of my, and he ain't know he didn't know what he was adjudicating. Right, right. You know, he was he he was at my but the fact that he came. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:16

No, I've seen I've seen him a lot of places over the years. I mean, some, of course, with the choir and stuff like that, but I think I saw him at a college in Pennsylvania is doing something by himself. I mean, he's he's he's been on radio like to me before radio was like a popular thing for artists to do, he was doing it. Um, now almost every artist is on radio.

SPEAKER_03 55:37

Yeah, but I guess the thing is too, we didn't think so much about money, you know, because money's a big thing. Yeah, it's a fact. Yeah, you know, we because we wanted to be there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I and I and I and I actually I'm glad you asked me that question because I had never been asked that question and I had never thought about it. Like, I mean, now I can't just do it like that because life is different. Yeah, you know, um, it's different because you know you have more responsibilities, I can't commit as much time.

SPEAKER_01 56:01

Yeah, well, you can't afford to give up time that you need to be able to get your resources to not get something in return for your time.

SPEAKER_03 56:08

Yeah, and then also too, gospel doesn't pay.

SPEAKER_01 56:12

Well, so that's that's the part I was saying. Like, even if you were on a gig, it wasn't paying crazy anyway. It was just like something that I'm gonna, it's almost like church, like you know, those old churches you used to play for back in the day. You can't survive off of the channel. We give you, we give you, we give you a chicken sandwich and you know, and and 50 bucks or something.

SPEAKER_03 56:31

But nowadays, even three and four hundred you can't survive off. Right. That's Sunday.

SPEAKER_01 56:34

And that wasn't you weren't getting that back in the day. No, not on no Sunday morning. No, now I'm talking about I'm talking about recording a gig. I'm talking about like a gig, like a uh, like, like I said, I I remember a musician saying, yo, you know, they were probably getting like a hundred dollars to come do a gig. Really? No, we have more than this is in the 90s though. This is like this is I'm trying to think when I was there.

SPEAKER_03 56:57

There was my 2000s.

SPEAKER_01 56:59

Again, again, also I'm talking about, I think it's I mean, I think it's everything's relative. You're talking about like a concert where there's a promoter versus you're just going to a church and you're doing a like okay.

SPEAKER_03 57:12

But no, our concerts, we get paid for our concerts. That's what I'm saying. And we get paid more than a hundred dollars.

SPEAKER_01 57:17

No, no, no, I'm sure. Yeah, yeah. But but you also you also came in after Love Fellowship is kind of established at a special.

SPEAKER_03 57:25

But you know what, Samar, I you know, you bring us so many amazing things because I never thought about it. You know, when I was with Bishop, I didn't think I never thought that I was I didn't even think twice about that part of it. Well, no, I'm telling you I hadn't I didn't even think, you know, and forgive me because maybe I'm on a slow bus, but I didn't even think I didn't think twice that I was performing with a top-tier person. But you were I was oblivious to all of it, Grammy Award winning. But I didn't know you gotta remember, I didn't I was oblivious to any of that because that wasn't the world you came from. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 57:57

You remember I came from classical and jazz, and even it's crazy because I want to just say this even church, like even though you you I'm sure you played in church before that, but church has different levels to it, like musically, like this church where I mean, like church, I'll give you a perfect example. Now you go into church, what they call praise and worship is very different, way different even now than what it was in 2000. You're right, yeah. But even before, when we're growing up, 80s, 90s, it was devotional service, that's right, and it was hymns and all that. Well, also the cultures of church has changed. Absolutely. So I'm saying, like, putting things in that perspective, I think even as a musician, the demand of repertoire has changed. Like, you know, you go to churches where they want to sing something new 52 weeks out of the year. It's like, bruh, when I grew up at church, we probably recycled 10 songs over a two year and they all were the same key and same key, same tempo, same speed, same couple words, you know what I mean? Like, and one person leading and just everybody.

SPEAKER_03 59:01

I know it was the blood. I know it was the blood. I know it was the blood for me. She died about a cause. Yes, Lord keeps ringing in my soul. Same, same song. Yes, Lord keeps ringing in my soul. Yeah, yeah, just the same song, same, same, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 59:19

But now you got, I mean, listen, with the elevation comes different expectations. Yeah, that's right. And that's why I think a lot of the financials had to change too. Because it's like Well, how are you doing with the change of transition? I mean, listen, as a as a as a college person, like, you know, I'm a music teacher also, so like there's a certain skill set that I've been able to attain over the years that allows me to be flexible. Like, you know, I mean, I can play things I you know, we sang spiritual and classical, and I had to read that in college. Um, but then as a musician, I've played at all types of different churches, like where some you gotta read. You know, I remember I was at an AME church that Brandon used to be at. I was at that church, and you know, at some point one of the pastors came in and said, I want to read every I want to do every song in the aim, like in the hymn book. Just felt like that they were they were under-singing, like under-representing the the hymn. And like, you know, people just do the hymns they know for the most part. So she said, No, we're gonna do, we're gonna go through the book. And that was a challenge for me, because I didn't know all the hymns. Right, right. I grew up with some of them, I knew some of them, but I had to go home and practice and read and challenge myself because that was a challenge for me at one point. But you know, those are things that you you as you grow as a musician, you you're glad you had that challenge. Because sometimes if we don't get challenged, we don't do those things. That is true. We don't learn that diversity. That is true, and so you know, I'll because you were forced to learn it. Exactly. It was part of the job description at that point. So, I mean, for me, I I I've been able, I've been fortunate, I'll call it fortunate to be able to learn different levels of musicianship, playing with top-tier artists, uh, playing at a at a small church.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:10

Yeah, but also just because you're diverse, you were diverse.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:12

You have to be diverse, you know what I'm saying? I mean, it it it really helps. I mean, you know, I have friends who are on all of those levels, like high level, mid-level, just starting out, or or really good, like just getting good. But I one thing in common is the people who study have a lot more opportunity to me. And it's not necessarily like that. I remember a kid that was like a virtuoso. Matter of fact, he plays for Hez Now, Jabari. Oh, yeah. I remember Jabari. Jabari was like a virtuoso as a teenager. Well, he's amazing. I I remember telling him, I said, bro, you should study. And not because he he didn't have it, he had it. Sure, sure. Like, um, but I felt like his natural ability enhanced because of it. Like, I mean, he understood things that I didn't understand until I studied. And so his natural ability was just ridiculous. Yeah, he's amazing, yeah, yeah, ridiculous. So that that to me, now, again, whether you study or not, it doesn't matter. You're going to develop one way. Right, right, absolutely. And there's a lot of places to develop. Absolutely. To me, studying is just a formal way to do it, but there's but actually.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:17

I think you need it if it depends on how far you want to go.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:21

True, but guess what? I I realize now, too, as a teacher, too. Um, these days, there's so many resources. Like, I have students who learn things that I had to go study with somebody or I had to go watch somebody physically, is on YouTube. It's you know, you could watch Corey Henry and pick up something that he got. Yeah, he got a lot. But you know, you might pick up something, and now at 12, 13, 14 years old, you're doing stuff that I couldn't do at 13 years old, you know what I'm saying? Because you have access. Right. I mean, like, you know, Sebastian Wheat, when he had Wheatworks, those videos were things that gave people access to like basically formal training, if you will. Not necessarily all the understanding of why we're doing this, all the theory, but the access to the doing. Yeah, that is true. And you know, sometimes we get stuck in theory and we never apply it.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:17

That's one that's and sometimes you don't need it, you don't need it.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:21

That's the crutch of school, though. Yeah, you know, we could argue that too. Like sometimes school will make us feel like we know some things, that's true, but we never been out in the world to apply it, apply real-world experience, exactly. And so to me, both are important or both can be important, but I think you know, I'm blessed to have been able to kind of be exposed to all of it, and to both, yeah, yeah, and you're good at what you do. I don't know. Praise be to God. Well, you still doing it. True, true, true. Uh, you know what? I I think I think for me, I mean you get shirts. It's merch. But yeah, for sure. Yeah, that's what you're seeing for me. It's just I I've been always been fascinated with how things work. Okay, and so being fascinated with how things work, I always want to learn more. The minutiae. And I think that learning, being a uh an avid learner, like I said, I studied with Shed just four years ago. I love him. And so to me, you know, I was I'm in my 40s already, and I'm taking lessons with somebody, but because I'm like, yo, there's things I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:21

Well, because you know what? Because I think we're all a student of learning, no matter age we are at.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:26

Not all of us, but I think it's important to be. I think when we are, we have the capacity to continue growing.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:31

Well, you know, Winter told me he said he who is the student is also the teacher, and he who is the teacher is also the student. Wow. And so I think that uh when he told me that I was like, oh, you know, because he's very philosophical, you know. So I was like, okay, yeah. Yeah, no, he's very yeah, he's very philosophical. You know, you have to be like, oh, okay, yeah. Let me think about it. Let me think about you, and I mean my before I was later, you now, oh, that's what he was saying. Right, right. So, you know, yeah, that's what he was saying. Oh, I get it now. Yeah, but you don't want to, it's it's yeah, in that moment, you want to you know you just want to be like, yeah, yeah, absolutely. I know exactly what you're saying, you know. Right. So I think, you know, and and to your point, like I certain situations, professional situations, that being at gospel, I found that my studying it helped. Like I was on a scoring stage at in LA, and thank God I knew what I was talking about, knew what I was looking at the score. Um, because when you have an orchestra in front of you and you have a somewhat of a botched up score, yeah, and some of the winds are off, and the the string parts are off, and you gotta make quick changes. Yeah, that's when I it kind of kicks in. Where you see where your skills are, yeah, we see where your skills is, and you have to work quick. Yeah, and it goes back to kind of how you were saying being flexible and other you're not even saying, like maybe with some, okay, this is the part you. Gonna read departing that. So, like, I learned and because like in the weep with the orchestra, they have a different terminology.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:08

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:09

They call holding whole notes, they call them uh holding footballs, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:14

Footballs, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:15

And I was like, you know, so I had to listen differently. It's like okay, they call it holding footballs, but but it's just a whole note, it's just a home note, or it's a measure, or like if you know you you don't want when they go to play the music, oh no, you know, the cello part is in the travel club. Why is it in the truck, you know? So you have to know, and why am I playing with the bassoon is playing? Why did this you know? So you have to kind of know, I had to learn in that instance. I was happy at that time to be able to kick in that the stuff I had learned.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:41

So, yeah, I I think to that to that point, one thing I'm I'm from Newark, right? I I was born in Newark. So one of the things for being in Newark is that, or just I think probably most urban areas, you don't want to you don't want to feel like you don't know something, or you don't want to act like you don't know something. So you you you kind of adapt to being able to be like, yeah, I understand that. Just like you said when Wenton talked to you, like, yeah, yeah, I you didn't get it, but you like it, yeah, yeah. But you know how to respond to just continue the conversation. Yeah, and so like one of the things in being adaptive is just like, yeah, I get, I know that, I know that. Even if you don't fully know it. Right, right, right. But I think you can, me being somebody who wants to take things apart, I did learn to adapt communication. That's that's really the key thing. Learning all of those different ways to to approach music gives you better communication. So as a musical director, I remember being able to talk to the sh to the horn parts that have the score and say we're at measure 51. And then talk to the the bass player who probably don't read, and they're like, yo, the groove is this, right? Right, right, right. And so it's just really having different communication styles for whomever you're talking to. Because that's really the gig. Is it's how can I can I tell everybody what they need to know at that moment, at that moment, the way that they hear it. Right. Because I could make you say, okay, we're reading the score, but you don't read the score. That doesn't help if I'm communicating. That is correct. You're right, you're right. Or if you're a classical musician, I need to be able to say, okay, we're reading the uh crescendos and decrescendos, or we're not reading those marks, the dynamic markings. But if you don't, if you like if you don't know that, I might just we're gonna swell here. You know what I'm saying? Like it's just knowing the terminology. Yeah, no, I agree with you. That's that's that's the diversity that you know learning more gives you. You know what I'm saying? And in different again, in jazz is different. We're swinging it, you know. Like, what does that mean if you're in class school? Yeah, you don't know what swing is. No, you don't know. That's a field. They only know 50-50. They don't know 60-40. So, I mean, I I think I think this is incredible information. I do want to talk now, because we talked about different parts of your career, um, the different influences, the different great people you work with, Went and Hezekiah Walker. I want to talk about it. The Clark Sisters. The Clark Sisters. Oh, tell us about that.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:56

Oh, um, well, the Clark Sisters, while with Bishop Walker, I connected with Dorinda, Dr. Cole. Um connected with at the COJ convocation. You know, she thought she thought it was something so different, and from there, our our relationship just kind of grew.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:15

You performing as a trumpetist. Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:17

She thought it was something so different. She's like, Oh my god, I just love you. And so she would always bring me in to perform for her anniversary, for her appreciation service. Okay, cool. So from there, I became her um director of her education for the Singers and Musicians Conference. Nice, and so um she and the Clark sisters began to mant me more as an artist. Wow, you know, behind the scenes, you know, and so um that and we're still close to this day, you know, we don't talk every day, but but you have a relationship. Oh, absolutely, that that those were they it will never go. And they're legends, so oh, absolutely, and I learned from the best from them. So um, being between Winton, the Clark sisters, and Bishop Walker, those have been very pivotal relationships. That's from teachers. Yeah, so with like Durinda, with you know, Dr. Cole, I was with her for about six to eight years. Wow, I've I would travel with her, I opened up for her, I was an assistant. Wow. I was the I wrote all the curriculums for the Singers and Musicians Educational Conference. I connected, uh I bridged a partnership with Berkeley College of Music and the Singers and Musicians Conference. You know, um, and I did it.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:36

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:37

I did it.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:38

That's amazing. I think I think one I'm glad you brought that up because I didn't know that. But also And guess what?

SPEAKER_03 1:10:45

I didn't get paid a lot either.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:47

But it didn't matter. It was like you were connected to the right people.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:50

Well, you know, and you know, that was another, I wasn't even thinking about money.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:54

I just and you know I and you know that was an opportunity of a lifetime to be mentored by legislative. But you know, it just happened or it happened organically. Right, right, right. You know, it was just hey, I want you to mentor me.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:06

No, it just it just happened.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:08

It just happened, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:13

Uh and I just, you know, as a matter of fact, I invested more. Wow, I paid my way to places. And I didn't mind, you know. I just I really I didn't mind because there's such great um women to be around. Um, they invested in me as a woman, you know, and a woman as an artist. They share with me this Sarita, this clothes that we wear as artists on stage that we don't wear when we're going to church. Wow. You have stage clothes and you have your regular clothes. So those are like little nuances that I did not know.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:43

So I want to get into that because that was the next thing I wanted to talk about. Like you being a woman in this industry, and the fact that you have some of the greatest women of all time that you have had access to and you get to mentor with what was it like? I mean, we talked about this, I think, in brief, about being in Brooklyn and New York and all the church scene, but also being the only woman in the band. Like, tell us about some of the challenges about that.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:14

Yeah, because I'm yeah, I had a hard time. I had a very hard time. It's funny because man, Bishop Walker, we talked, he talked about this on my film. Okay, you know, he there were times that he saw me struggling. Um, because like one of the challenges that I had was that you know, within the band, I was the only one that was formally trained. So I had a hard time with the language barrier that they would use, you know, like I didn't understand this, you know. Um and like they would do like little things, like they wouldn't tell me the song, they're getting ready to perform. I would just hear it and have to clank in. Wow. You know, like little things like that. Um, I remember one time they was getting ready to record, um, and uh they brought in a whole nother horn section. They were all guys, they didn't think I was gonna be able to learn my part, you know. Um, and I learned my part. And Bishop Walker had to get my back as read as a part of this, you know, like they would go share to the side and wouldn't include me. Right, right, right. Little stuff like that. Little exclusion. I mean, I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:16

I find I find there's things like that, unfortunately, in the in that culture in New York.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:21

But is it really so I oh yeah, yeah, yeah, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:24

There's a musician culture in New York.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:26

They they would, yeah, but these they were from like DC or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:30

I'm sure there's a musician culture in DC. Yeah, but like they were all but I mean, but you said that they came to play with your with your band. So that's that's they're gonna be able to do that.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:36

But they but they didn't they exclude they right, they excluded me from the rehearsal topic or like you know, I didn't know that they were rehearsing.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:44

Wow, and this is the the section, the section, okay. But they also probably not not any excuse, but I'm sure that they probably played together.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:53

They played together, so they played and they had a new, but they was coming into our house. Into your situation, you know, and so I didn't know anything. Wow. And like, you know, when rehearsals were, I didn't know, you know, um, like they wouldn't show me the parts. Wow, you know, like turn around and go, you know, it's like this, and you know, they they just kind of came in, you know. So like those little if you catch it, yeah, like you know, um, after a while, so that was that was a big struggle. Um, then after a while it it eased up, you know, because you know, I was nailing all my parts. And then so the the gentlemen, the guys, and they start respecting me.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:25

They earn the respect, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:26

I you know, I earned the respect, you know, you know, uh, and then remember I was going to the blue note. I was, you know, I was you was already exposing yourself to those high-level yeah, because remember, that was then, but they the fellowship they didn't know I was going to hang out and play at the clubs after church because I was steady perfecting my craft. Right, I was playing trumpets six and eight hours a day in church, and then I was going down bit a little bit learning. I was getting my chop, working on my chops, you know. I was doing music all day long. So, yeah, so that that was very hard. Um, the girls in the choir, because remember, I was a part of the band. So, like um when we traveled there, I would get partnered in with the girls in the rooms and stuff like that. The singers, this, the singers and things like that. But the conversations was different because the things that like they were arguing over who's gonna stand on the front row, you know. Right, right. For me, that was oh, you know, I you you have a place. I had a place, but also I'm thinking music.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:26

Right, right, right, right.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:27

I'm not not who's in front, yeah, you know, yeah, and that was a bit that's a big thing. I didn't know the front row is a big thing in choirs. Wow, you know, who's on the front row, who's and to me it's like, you know, so I'm sure it is though. And so, like, also look things like I didn't have a microphone.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:44

Well, that's what I'm about to say. Front row to me equates to I'm singing in the microphone, they like my voice better.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:52

But see, like for me and the band, I play an acoustic instrument, right? So, like, you know, part of the, you know, I never sometimes You didn't have you in the writer. I didn't have sometimes I wasn't in the writer, sometimes I had to play without a microphone, wow, stuff like that. So I had to deal with a lot of space, yeah. So I yeah, no, so I had to kind of like overcome those challenges, you know. I mean, there were days I definitely got discouraged and didn't want to be a part, and I didn't feel like I was a part, you know, because sometimes there were even a couple of times where budget didn't allow for me to travel. Wow, there's real talk, you know. Um, because I wasn't a a needed instrument, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:16:27

Right, right. I got you. Wow.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:30

Or there were times where I was because I was an accessory instrument, I had to get on the bus and I couldn't fly.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:36

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:38

And I feel some kind of way about that. Yeah, because I was like, oh, I'm a part of the band uh today, but now I'm part of the band. But then the older I get, I understand. You know, you can't pay for it's logistics, yeah. But but remember when you're new coming into it, you're you could take things personal and not understanding it. The all the logistics of it, only the nucleus need to fly. You don't need a trumpet player to carry the service, right? To be back for service, you know, so that kind of a thing. So the more I mature, then I understood a lot better.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:10

Yeah, no, that's crazy.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:12

Um, how did your but like even on the on the jazz scene, I dealt with a lot of oh yeah, tell me like the you know, on the jazz scene I dealt with, you know, like I like it was more things like I didn't know my stuff, you know. Even like when we were in college, you know, I I you know I was plus size girl, had my little overalls on. You remember those days? They used to challenge me, you know. Um, like I never forgive one challenge I had, you know, uh, and they played tried to play me for a punk. Wow, and um, and you know, we were hungry in college, and so and the Arvin's book was the trumpet bible, and it was three dollars a page we were playing against. Wow, and you couldn't miss a note on the page, and they was playing me because remember, I I remember I didn't get into Mason Girls, I was in Douglas, but I was still studying with Prof.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:01

Right, right.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:01

And and so there was two guys, and we were in the practice room. You had to call for if you messed up, you had to call for three dollars. Wow, and so I won. So they had to pay you, they had to pay me, and I needed that because I wanted to eat at the Chinese place and at the grease trucks at the grease trucks, you know. So, but I won. I think we did like 30 pages back to back with what was happening while they were out hanging out. That's why I didn't know about the parties. You didn't go to the party, no, because I was practicing, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:28

You was doing what you're supposed to do. Yeah, but but I think I think I think see that's good because I was doing what I was supposed to do. You were supposed to do that.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:34

But but but remember, I didn't know, I don't know anything else, is what I'm saying to you.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:38

Like that I I think that God has a unique way of doing that because sometimes He puts the adversity because the adversity was you didn't get in. So these are people who are probably in. Yes, they were in so they so they have the comfort and they're they're good, they they're already in the school, yeah, and they probably have a certain level of skills, so you're probably relying on that. But I didn't have you had to work, yeah. So you're like, man, I ain't got time, I don't know nobody no party, I'm here to work. But see, I and I when but I was in that bubble room.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:08

I didn't know I didn't even know. No, but that's I think that was divine. You think so my You got the money, didn't you? I did get the money, but no, so I promise you I did not even know Rutgers was even having parties. Wow, I'm so serious. Wow, because all I knew was going to practice, yeah. And I went to George C. Rice Church on Sundays, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I didn't know I didn't even know they had parties. Yeah. I mean, listen. And guess when I found out when today.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:37

When I told you when you told me. Well, again, that's a different that's a different culture. Like, I would just even say, as a musician, if I had just gone there and my brothers weren't involved in the social culture, you could have been in the bubble. I would have been in the bubble too. I mean, maybe better off, maybe not, but I mean it you know, like Brandon was in the bubble, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. He was definitely that that was he was in, they were what the the the gospel choir in school, yeah, and I mean, and you know, Mason Gross.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:06

And remember Kenny, Kenny, um you remember Kenny Kaiga Banu? They played the drums. No, because we used to do a little gig at Tumultis. I didn't know that. Okay. Oh, every Friday night. I didn't know that. And then Brad played the piano at the Hilton on Thursday nights. Yeah. I didn't know that Woodbridge was right. Is that Hilton still there? Where right near New Brunswick, East Brunswick, right there. He he played in piano. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:32

I think I know that.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:33

And then he sent me the sub because I had to learn how to play piano.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:35

Nice.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:36

And I would do it because it made$150.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:38

It was like what a cocktail kind of gig?

SPEAKER_03 1:20:40

You just playing it and play the piano.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:42

Playing the piano, it didn't matter.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:43

Didn't even matter.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:44

Wow, that's cool.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:46

So you told me today that there was I had no clue there were parties.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:48

All these people. Oh, yeah, but again, that's it's it's it's different cultures in the school. I mean, like, because you know, uh well, I didn't even know there was a black community at Ruckers. It's a huge black community.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:59

I didn't, I swear I didn't I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:01

We just went to a Greek thing this past, I think last year or this past Wait, are you a Greek? I'm not a Greek, but we went to a Greek thing, and you know how many Greeks were there? No, I didn't see I can show you some video, I'll show you some pictures. But it was so many people there. I mean, like some people that I went that I came to the school with, because I told you I went through Livingston. I have friends that are that that were pledging when I was there, you know what I mean? At at Livingston. All this is new, because I don't think I was on Douglas campus and Mason Grove. Yeah, that's it. No, I I was at all the campuses, and I didn't know anything. Because like my brother was a DJ. So, you know, they they ended up so you got around. Oh, yeah. I was I was I was into I mean, I only went there because of my brother. My brother was like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But when I say that they, I mean, like, there's gonna be a whole thing about it, but when I say that they outshined almost every group there with what they did, I mean, it was just a time in the in the 90s, like, because my brother worked for um worked at Diddy Studio. My aunt ran it, and my brother worked there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what he ended up doing, he ended up doing parties. Him and my cousin, my cousin did the same thing in Atlantic City. They would do parties with Biggie, with Mace, with DJs, DJ IROC.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:17

So I'm oblivious to that whole world.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:20

They created a culture that was around the biggest era in hip hop East Coast, which was the bad boy ever.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:27

How are we on time? Because we sitting there chatting. No, we good.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:29

We're gonna get through. Okay, again, we'll still edit. Yeah, all right, okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:32

But so, like I'm talking about my time. Oh, yeah, no, no.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:34

Yeah, I don't know. What time you got?

SPEAKER_03 1:22:35

Uh, I got to three.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:37

Three what?

SPEAKER_03 1:22:38

I can leave that out until three. Is it three o'clock now?

SPEAKER_01 1:22:41

It's past three. Oh, Jesus. Okay. Let's wrap up. All right, okay. All right, so so we we can go into that all day. But there was party. So I do want to just uh talk about some of the things you're doing now. I know congratulations, you just did a partnership with the Grammy Museum. Tell us about that.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:58

Well, the um I currently sit on the Board of Governors. Congrats. Um thank you for the New York chapter. And so last year, Naris. Naris, the recording academy, yeah. So um last year we rebranded and recurated what Grammys in the schools look like. Wow, and so it was a huge success. So we redid the entire curriculum. Um, we had Coco Jones.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:22

Um actress.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:25

Yes, yes, um singing actress. We had over 20 masterclasses that went from music production to PR, um behind the scenes of musical theater. Um it was very well, it was very, a very well curated program. So I did the curriculum for that, um, which led to what's happening now. The Grammy Museum has implemented a scholarship in my name, a Trumpet Lady Scholarship, thank you. A Trumpet Lady Scholarship that's going to be given to a young lady that will be attending Grammy Camp um every year. Wow. So that's I'm pretty excited about that because being that I don't have children, that's a way to leave legacy.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:07

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:08

To have legacy, you know. Um, and so I'm very, very excited about that. Um, and also serving to being a part of the recording academy. Um, so that I have new music that's coming out. Wow. Um with you, I redid with you on Born Again, okay, um, which the great Billy Preston and Serena Wright, who I was named after. Wow. Serena Wright, I went and redid it uh with uh Tom Naziola, okay, who's a classical composer. And so I actually sang, I took voice lessons and singing it, you know. Um, and so I'm really excited about that. Um, it's a great, I think we did a great job on the arrangement. There's like a Bill Levins kind of interlude in there. So, and then I have Blow Your Horn Making Music in a Man's World, which is started, it was just a started out as a documentary feature, but now is in pitch phase as a docuseries. Wow. So Harvey Mason Jr. is in it. Wow. Uh Velicia Butterfield Jones, who is was the vice president of the recording academy, who's now a Google, she's in it. Invoke music is in it. Wow. Um, Bishop Hezekiah Walker is in it. And uh, and we talk about what is it's not a male bashing film. Okay, that's the thing. It's not male bashing, it's it's exploring the challenges of what I've had to go through and other female musicians. Yeah, like all our characters are different. Like for me, most people know me as the trumpet lady. So I've built Trumpet Lady as a brand and still building it. A lot of the music, the female musicians that are in it, they've been more of a side musician.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:41

You know, like um, I think um Brittany, she's a part of Vixen, she's a rock and roller. Wow, you know, uh, and so rock and roll, they call her Gun for Hire. You know, uh something I had to learn. Right, right. Um, right, right. Vitey Williams, who played with Nellie, Beyonce, you know, bassist. And then another young lady, I've uh Brittany, another Brittany, she's a drummer. She's played with um some of everybody, I can't think of all her names right now, but they all have different stories on navigating as side musicians and and what's it like to be a woman in this industry and navigating. Um Invoe, they because they're a legacy group, talk about ageism.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:23

Wow, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:24

You know, why why isn't the standard of beauty someone in their 30s? You know, I mean in their 60s, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:26:31

Right, right.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:31

You know, so we you know, we take and it and it so it took me from concept to reality to really develop the story. Um, Martin Shore, who's my co-director, he really encouraged me to take a look at it and really good get he helped me to really framework it okay um to develop the the story because the story is the arc of it. Okay, and so I did the sound entire soundtrack myself. Nice, and so we're now right now, we're in pitch phase. That's great. Well, in Jesus' name. So I get I also have um Larkin and Poe in it. Larkin and Poe is a a folk group, they're like three-time Grammy Award winners. Wow, their sister duo, one plays like the sitting guitar, and another one plays guitar, so they're in it, you know. So um, what I like about it is multicultural and then it's very diverse. And they're two sisters. I mean, it's just a diverse range of having everybody. I also have a there was a young lady who used to follow me on social media, she's a trumpet player, okay, and she's from a part of the LBGTQ Plus community. Okay, so I got her story on there too, because she said that people would you know not hire her for Giz because she's a part of the LGBTQ community. Wow. And I'm like, oh, that's you know, story. I'm like, this is very interesting. So you know, I got just to get their different perspective and story, I got it all on camera. I'm still filming while I'm pitching. So hopefully it's gonna all come back.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:57

Yeah, because it's a series now.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:58

It's a ser it's a series now. And so that that's where we're at. And it's been I think from two thousand two thousand eighteen to now, from story to concept.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:07

Wow. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:08

So now I do more theaters and jazz festivals now.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:11

Okay. That's cool.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:12

You think so?

SPEAKER_01 1:28:13

Yeah. I mean, I think I think you we evolve into what we want to be and where we want to be. And I think we got to do what's best for us. That's absolutely that that gives us life, gives us, fills our cup, as they call it. And I think um what you're thank you for having me. It's amazing. I mean, what what's something that you could share? And you could just look into the camera if you want.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:34

Um, because I've been looking at you the whole entire time. No, no, no, that's right. Because we've been talking.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:37

Yeah, yeah. We're just having a chat. But I would love for you to share with like a a young lady who's a musician or a singer. I mean, singers probably get more opportunities, but like some of the things.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:50

Well, the field is very crowded for singers.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:52

It is, it's super cool.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:53

It's very, very crowded.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:54

Um, depending on the genre as well, too. You know, but I think that you can give like just give some encouragement to an up-and-coming, definitely a musician first. Because I think that, you know, one of the things I thought was incredible in this lifetime was seeing Beyonce do an all-female band. I thought that was amazing. Yeah, absolutely. Because you don't see that. No, you don't see those.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:16

And those are the only kind of gigs that females get hired for. When they talk about that in the film, yeah, because why are those only gigs we can get?

SPEAKER_01 1:29:23

Unfortunately, I think I think, you know, one of the issues, and I don't know the particulars of these issues, but I think that I've like I there's an amazing bass player I got to work with from England. She's on the in the um Broadway musical six, I think it's called. And she's an amazing musician. And and I saw some challenges that she had, just you know, just being a female, like guys are just guys have a guy culture, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_03 1:29:49

And trying to have to figure and navigate in that.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:51

Yeah, and I mean, unfortunately, some of the things also just naturally, just the natural woman and man relationships. Well, you know what?

SPEAKER_03 1:29:58

I mean, and and even and even to speak to that point, I know I gotta get going. What what I've learned as a woman and being in this is to stay true to who you are. You know, like I believe in femininity. You know, I'm not a man, and I'm very clear on that. Right, you know, um, and as a female musician, it's it's important to carry yourself in who you are at all times. Yeah, you know, um you you will be respected in how you carry yourself.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:28

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:29

You know, um, so as I got as I mature into who I was as a from coming from a side musician to being more the trumpet lady, I had to learn how to be more of an artist and be more of a woman. So there's certain things like for example, if you we were out on the road together and there's a band, I won't be with the band.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:52

Right, right.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:53

Because I'm not finna have a guy talk. Right. Guys and women don't talk about the same things. Absolutely. So I had to learn that that's okay. You know, that that's okay, and I think that's something that female musicians struggle with. They you need gotta know who you are, whose you are, and who you are, and you have to be comfortable in your womanhood. Yeah, you know, and you have to have balance. Yeah, people don't know how to cook. I'm really a homebody, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:22

Yeah, me too. You know, I don't like it.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:24

So, you know, um, well, there's a time and a place for everything. Absolutely. So you have to understand that being a musician, that's my job. And then, but me as a woman is different, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:31:34

Right, right. Right. Absolutely. So, what what what encouragement? I'll give you two things, and then I think we can go. Okay. Uh, one is encourage a young up-and-coming musician. Maybe they're, you know, playing a clarinet in a band right now, or they're playing a piano. What words of encouragement would you give them to um a young lady or a male or anybody, any of them? I would say a young lady.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:59

I want to be specific. Yeah. Well, to I would say to a young lady that's playing an instrument, I'm gonna look at you, Manny. I would say that's playing an instrument. I would say first, focus on studying your craft because craftsmanship is so vital and it's so important. The music is the star of the show. That's it. Yes, you're gonna deal with the emotional side, you're gonna deal with not being, you're gonna deal with being overlooked, you're gonna deal with feeling rejection. But if the music is the star of the show, your skill set and your craftsmanship will speak for it, speak for itself. Secondly, I would say is two words don't stop.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:50

That's great. That's great.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:52

Don't stop. Because if you stop, then you you can't accomplish it.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:56

Right. And it was there was something I just said, completion is the is like the main thing. If you complete things, you there's a certain satisfaction and a certain growth that comes with just completing. Absolutely. You know it from school, you know it from, you know, uh everyone.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:10

And you have to grow, you have to grow into it, and the more music first, and also music is infinity, you can never master music. But when you're so ingrained into the music, your music is going to, you know, like I was so into practicing and doing what I needed to do, I didn't focus on a lot of other things. Yeah, because I needed, I didn't, I wasn't aware, and this is gonna this is gonna sound very silly. I wasn't aware that people looked at me as a female musician until later on. Wow. Because I was so busy into the craft and music. It was it, you know, it was notes, and I was I was a half step from Brandon mentally.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:50

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:50

And you know how he was.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:51

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:52

You know, that's all I think I was talking about. Focused just like that, just came on.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:56

I'll be trying to figure out what key that's in. I'm always thinking music, music, music, music all day long. So I didn't think I wasn't thinking that people gonna look at me as she's a girl playing it. Because I'm thinking about music.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:10

I'm just music, yeah. Yeah, it's crazy. Um, one thing I reflect on in my development as a musician. When I was in high school, I didn't think about how many hours I spent practicing. I just practiced. I just wanted to know what I didn't know. And I'm like, I would spend time, and even now I can get like really focused on stuff like that because that's why I gotta be careful because I got a day job. Like I'll come down and I say when I get in the studio, I can get lost in the studio. Because you're there's so many things to do, and time is just it just goes away. Yeah, it's so you I love that, but you gotta be careful, you gotta still set time for it, set your balance and have balance, so you can have balance, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:51

And that's something that I've learned later on in life as balance because I've studied so much music, I I've started learning that I didn't have balance. So, like I had a hard time. Um, and this is something Brandon and I talk about. I had a hard time socializing.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:07

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:08

Because I don't go to clubs because the music is too loud.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:11

Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:12

And I use my ears for a living, so that's not gonna work. And it's dark in there.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:16

Yeah. What's going on in there?

SPEAKER_03 1:35:18

I mean, it's dark, so I can't see. So I'm gonna put on heels and all that. Can't nobody see me because it's dark, and my feet are hurting. I got a small cute purse. I mean, so I mean, I don't see an I personally don't see the enjoyment in that. I grew up in church. Well, I'm walking into a dark place, I got on heels, my feet are hurting. You can't eat right because you need a drink.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:39

Right, right.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:40

You can't hardly talk, the music is loud.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:42

No, I listen, you know, so I think being a musician, you you get into a different culture. Like there's a dip that looks differently as a musician. Yeah, exactly. One, there's a stage you're performing on, or you're going to enjoy a performance.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:56

Yeah, and it's like, so I I didn't I never fit in going to clubs.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:59

Yeah, I never was into it.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:01

So I had to find my lane of where I fit, and so I fit more in like I like food, so I'm a foodie. So I joined um the James Beard Foundation. Oh, okay, you know, and things like that. So I like going to dinners and you know, I've had to find balance and like I go to wine tastings and things like that. Find my balance and what I like socially, yeah. You know, because the club is not gonna happen for me because I use my ears for a living, so I'm not finna sacrifice my living and have a broken eardrum and I can't see it because it's dark.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:33

Yeah, it's funny you say that.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:34

Like somebody's dark, and what the heck is that? Exactly. What's going on?

SPEAKER_01 1:36:38

I I I told you I did the show in London two weeks ago, and so this show in London. So the promoter said, Hey, we're going to the club, you know, the night before the show. You should come. So I'm like, all right. So we we went to the club, and it was exactly what she said. Super loud, super dark. I could barely see him. I'm like, I gotta like touching everybody walking, it's like packed.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:05

And I'm like, And it's sweaty and high.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:07

This is not and this is not my teacher. You know, I mean, I've been to, but like I said, the last time I was into situations like that was in college. Right, right, right. And my brother was the promoter. My brother was the party. Oh, we were part of the party. We were taking, you know, we were greeting people at the door, taking the money and stuff like that. So I've always seen music and parties and even concerts. That's the same thing. We've been on the stage, not necessarily always in the audience. So I I see things in that way. Like, I'm always thinking, like, oh, who who's the sound person? We would see Stevie. I'm like, where's the sound person? Right, yeah, because you're looking at the line. Because I'm looking at it from that lens. And so in a pro in a party, I'm like, okay, the DJ's right there, and it's so dark. And the only thing that kept me in there, because I I literally we were in there five minutes, and then my wife was like, Let's go outside. So we go outside because it's hot in there, everything.

SPEAKER_03 1:38:00

That's what I'm so you mean tell me I'm gonna put on my good perfume and my good dress, and it's gonna mean nothing, and it's gonna mean nothing. So I've been winded all this effort, and it ain't gonna and the hair, your hair is gone, you can't hear you, I can't hear, I can't see, my feet hurt, and we're not gonna eat. And then I gotta pay$30 for a drink, too.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:21

Right, crazy. So, so the only reason why we stayed, and we didn't stay that long. Only reason why we were back inside is because the promoter said, Hey, they're gonna play your record. I wouldn't then that's a good thing. So that's and so that so then I'm like, okay, this is why as an artist, you would go that's a new you want to see the the response. And you're talking about a record that I put out years ago. So I did get to see a response, it was positive. I recorded some of it, and it was just like, okay, that was dope to see that. Because I don't I I'm in London.

SPEAKER_03 1:38:47

I don't I don't even know these people, but that's a different incentive, right? You know, but that's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:52

Like, that's the only thing that made sense. Right, right, right, right. This is not my scene, nothing against it. I know it's a scene that puts me. I'm a church boy, yeah. My mother had us in church all my life.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:03

So that ain't gonna that ain't your thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:05

Yeah, I mean, like I said, I can enjoy aspects of it, right? Right, but like in doses, you know what I'm saying? In doses, in small ones, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, even church, church, I love church too. You need to make small doses.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:17

Yeah, because after a while, you know, it's like it becomes something different. You know, yes, it definitely becomes something different.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:21

I love it, love it, enjoy it. But having done it, like now I'm my career in church is probably 30 something years, you know, easily.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:29

Yeah, and so you know, yeah, and if that means everything that they get riled up over, you don't. Yeah, it's like, yeah, I've I I've I've been there. Yeah, been there, get got that t-shirt, the path to going off and all that.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:40

Love it though, you know. But again, it's just different perspective. I understand. So again, I listen, I think you've said plenty to encourage. I hope you got enough. I think we have plenty. Um I want to say one more thing. Okay, if we can. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um I've learned in my career that music is definitely the the foundation of your career, my career. How have you been pivoting? Because it's not like you're pivoting to other aspects of either music or different aspects. Tell tell any independent artist or musician or something like that the importance of being flexible and pivoting when it's time to.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:20

Because you're gonna develop whatever, but then absolutely I didn't have a choice but to pivot because uh I had to come into the realization that the trumpet is not a it's not like I can't go play the drums at a church. It's a single instrument, so the options are very limited. So I found that I rather invest in what I do and pivot. And like I I realized like my records went on billboard because not because of gospel, because of the hip-hop community got behind my records. So that was a tall tale sign to me that I need to make some different kinds of changes. I couldn't get a uh a gospel publicist, I had a hip hop publicist that got behind me and and put me in like war. I was on War Star Hip Hop in Double XL. So dressed like this with a trumpet, you know. Um yeah, but that's what they thought, you know. And I was like, oh, okay. That's what they said. I was like, cool with me. You know, I because I can roll with any, I can go straight hood or I can go, you know, straight, you know, you know, um Oscars and all that. The elite, I could do all of that. So the with the pivoting, I I found that I had to become more of a business person. Yeah. So um with because the trumpet lady has started and has developed more to a brand. Right, you know, and brands takes time to build. Yeah, and so when I started becoming more of a business person, you know, with putting out your own records and understanding the business of music, mute the business of music is one thing, but the business of entertainment is very it's a different arm. That's what has helped me to pivot. Like when I have my own staff, like I also have um a brand relationship with Sarovsky. Wow, you know, that's when I had to learn, I had to take on more of a business entrepreneurial mindset. So pivoting as an independent artist because nowadays you just can't make music alone to survive financially. Oh, absolutely not, you have to have so many other things going, yeah. Um, because the in the entertainment industry, the music business is not lucrative. Right, you have to have other entities going to be successful, right? It's just a vehicle for the vehicle, get get a spotlight on you, yes, and so it's important for independent artists to use your music as a business card, but develop other entities and also connect with collaborations and other entities, you know, to move what you do forward. Yeah, so that it is very vital in today's time that independent artists number one understand the business of music, but also the business of entertainment and collaborate and don't take anything for granted, yeah, you know, and also to learn the business of music and learn the business of entertainment, yeah. You know, uh because learning it is very different, and it's not just with contracts, yeah. Contracts, that's the easy thing. A contract doesn't but learn the the nuances of the business of entertainment and who does what and what what they're doing, what and how does it benefit what you're doing? Maybe it's not a good fit, right? Maybe it is, maybe, maybe there's some things there.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:42

I I I won't say this and we're gonna be done. Yeah, one um one of my mentors says uh completion is the number one rule in the music business. And then one of his colleagues said the number two rule is networking. Yes. So those two things I think you can kind of accomplish a lot. Um one of the things you said about the charts specific to hip-hop versus gospel. I think it's very important that we as musicians independently understand that our music has an audience. We have to discover it sometimes. You have to find your audience, and sometimes it's not what we think. We could be like, okay, I'm gospel because I'm saved, and you know, I grew up in church, but you might be the next Whitney Houston.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:29

Well, you know, guess what? And to your point, some this is triggering me to say this. It's funny because I have a forthcoming event I mentioned to you, and a publicist said, Well, I think I should partner you with a uh top-tier artist to and and I'm I looked at her and I I I'm listening to saying, Why would I pay you or pay a top-tier artist to come to my event that I'm raising money for?

SPEAKER_01 1:44:58

Right, and I'm gonna have to pay them.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:01

But that's business, that's business. Yes, but that's business. But why not just get the people that support me?

SPEAKER_01 1:45:07

Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:08

And we all have a good time together. Yeah. So I had to learn. Yeah, now here's the thing about that. And this is here's this is where people don't like to really talk about. It's a slower route. But you gotta be in it. What I've learned about this business is that you gotta be in it, yeah, and it's a journey, yeah, you know, and the journey is just as important as the destination, absolutely, it's a much slower route. It is a slower route because why would I pay a top-tier celebrity to partner in on my event that I gotta pay? Yeah, I got I have to pay this person to show up, and I get it because it's a business, right? And I get it, and they don't they don't say like they'll bring more eyeballs to be more Bibles to Maze, but that's a chance, that's a chance. So now I gotta pay a gamble, yeah. A gamble with paying this person some money when I could just get people that you can just spend more money on promotion for yourself, myself, and also people that I know, yeah, and we can celebrate each other and we can make relationships with each other, absolutely. So, which one makes sense?

SPEAKER_01 1:46:14

No, absolutely, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:46:15

So uh, so I had to learn that the hard way almost, yeah, you know, that I rather invest in me and invest in the people, that's why I'm here with you.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:25

Absolutely, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 1:46:26

Because this because we're gonna go together, absolutely, you you know what I'm saying? So, you know, um, so I told the public, and I had another uh another publicist looking, she says, Sarita, that's bullshit. That's on the face, that's what she said to me. And I was like, Oh, I'm glad you said that. And so that wait a minute, and then on top of that, for me to give the the artist, the whoever actress, whoever it is, a donation to their foundation, right? But that doesn't make it that's not what I'm trying to do. That's what I'm so so so I had to put my thinking cap on because I'm thinking, oh, this one, they work with this person, that person, that that's what I need, but that's not what I need.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:02

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 1:47:02

That's not what I need when I could pay two publicists the salary that I'm paying that one artist, an actress to come to and just get more promotion.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:12

Now listen, that's that's that's the business part of it. I mean, people will give you all of the formulas that they that they think, but I mean, I'm I'm I'm happy that you came here.

SPEAKER_03 1:47:20

Of course, and we didn't chatted it up all time. No, we we started over there and then we Yeah, it's all right.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:25

That's that's what I knew will happen. So, I mean, where can people support your uh your efforts and where can they follow you?

SPEAKER_03 1:47:33

Well, first of all, I need you to follow me on IG because my account got hacked. So I need I need more followers on Instagram, trumpetlady T on Instagram. I'm all over. You can Google me, trumpet lady, trumpetlady.com, trumpetlady.org, lady trumpet, anything, lady trumpet, trumpet lady. I own all my domains that's associated with trumpet lady, lady trumpet, any in any order you can find me. Got it, got it.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:02

So we're gonna do that, and we appreciate you uh sewing into musicians. Of course. This is the musicianship podcast. Check us out for more helpful information. Help the musicians.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:15

Thanks for listening. To stay up to date between episodes, follow us on Facebook, TikTok, and Instagram, and make sure you're subscribed to our YouTube channel. If you liked what you heard today, or if there's something specific you want us to dive into next, leave us a comment. Catch you in the next episode.