The Musician's Shed Podcast

THE MUSICIAN'S SHED PODCAST: JENNIE HARNEY-FLEMING (Full interview)

• Samar Newsome

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What does it feel like to step onto a Broadway stage when theater is literally in your DNA? 

This week in The Musician’s Shed, host Samar Newsome welcomes the incredible Jennie Harney-Fleming for a conversation that bridges generations of musical excellence.

Jennie isn’t just a Broadway powerhouse (Hamilton, The Color Purple); she is part of a legendary theatrical lineage. Her father, Ben Harney, was a Tony Award winner and a member of the original iconic cast of Dreamgirls. Today, Jennie opens up about carving her own path while honoring the giant shoulders she stands on.

In This Episode:

  • The Harney Legacy: Growing up in the wings and what she learned from her father’s historic career.
  • Finding Her Voice: How Jennie transitioned from "daughter of a legend" to a Broadway leading lady in her own right.
  • The Resilience Factor: A raw look at the "no's," the callbacks, and the mental toughness required to survive the industry's highs and lows.
  • Building a Sustainable Career: Practical wisdom on staying power in a world that’s constantly changing.

This episode is more than just a theater talk—it’s a masterclass in grit, heritage, and the courage to keep showing up when the curtain rises.

🔗 Stay Connected:

Follow Jennie Harney-Fleming: @jennieharneyfleming

Subscribe to The Musician's Shed: Catch the full conversation on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube. If this episode inspired you, leave us a review and share it with a fellow creative! 🎧✨

#TheMusiciansShed #JennieHarneyFleming #BenHarney #BroadwayLegacy #Dreamgirls #HamiltonBroadway #TheColorPurple #ActorLife #Resilience #SamarNewsome #TheaterHistory

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SPEAKER_06

Hey, this is Samar Newsome, and this is the Musician Shed Podcast. And I got a very special guest with me today. I have Miss Jenny Harney Fleming. Hey, y'all. Hey, glad to have you here.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you for having me. This is such an honor.

SPEAKER_06

Oh my gosh. The honor is mine. Oh. So I know your greatness. I've seen you on many stages and just really been in awe of your talent. Um, but tell the people who Jenny Harney is.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you so much. Um, I am predominantly a musical theater performer, but I also do recorded music and uh sing not cabaret, but you know, sing as a singer uh often in between my musical theater gigs, yeah. Um but uh I was in Hamilton. I'm about to go into a new show which I can't talk about just yet. Um I did Color Purple, A Wonderful World on Broadway. Um, but I also do like to record and and um sing every chance that I get.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah, you do some amazing stuff. And again, I mean you I love the the caliber of stuff that you worked on. It's not like she's doing some off off Broadway. No, she's doing Broadway stuff. I mean, like to me, it's like if there's a major black show, more than likely you're gonna be a part of it, or you're gonna be in there somewhere.

SPEAKER_01

I do definitely have a lot of relationships with the people who put put most of the black shows that come out on Broadway together. So it does relationships are everything.

SPEAKER_06

Absolutely. That's great. We'll talk about relationships in a second. So, I mean, one strong relationship, you you come from a legacy, a Broadway legacy. I do. Tell us, I mean, I know, tell the people who your dad is.

SPEAKER_01

My dad is Ben Harney.

SPEAKER_06

Um, he was Tony Award winning. Tony Award-winning Ben Harney.

SPEAKER_01

Uh, he won the Tony for Curtis Taylor Jr. in the original production of Dream Girls. Absolutely. Uh, that was what, I don't even know how long ago it was now, 40 years ago. Wow, I can't remember. They're doing a uh a revival actually, it's supposed to come on Broadway in a couple of months. So yeah, I heard about that. Yeah, super excited about that.

SPEAKER_06

I won't be surprised if she gets uh if she ends up in the cast somewhere.

SPEAKER_01

I don't know about that one, but I I mean I know it's gonna be incredible because they've got some really crazy talented people in the room, and and my nephew actually was a part of their um audition process, ironically. That's not ironic.

SPEAKER_05

Well, I guess it is ironic.

SPEAKER_01

They have no idea. Nobody in the room knew the connection between him and my dad. Wow. So it's you know, you know how God works.

SPEAKER_06

He just Oh yeah, oh yeah, you know, I love your dad. Yeah, amazing. Um, so tell me, like, how did your journey start out in musical theater? Like, did you always want to do music theater? Did you want to do like music or like as an artist or something like that? Like, what was your journey like?

SPEAKER_01

For me, it took a minute for me to really um land on musical theater. I think part of it was just needing to know that the choice to follow it was mine.

SPEAKER_06

You know, not just following your dad. Exactly. Gotcha.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. I mean, I when I was younger growing up, I studied dance mostly. And it wasn't until maybe junior high that I started to sing or started to to to realize that I enjoyed singing. Gotcha in front of people. Um, and um I went to LaGuardia for dance for the first year.

SPEAKER_06

I to fame school.

SPEAKER_01

Hated it. I hated it. Because there's just so much pressure, you know, uh uh in the dance world that if you don't have thick enough skin, which I did not, uh, you can't really it's it's hard to survive in the dance world. You really gotta have thick skin. Uh so I was fortunate enough to be able to transfer to the music department because I auditioned for both and got accepted to both.

SPEAKER_03

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_01

Um, so I went in my sophomore year, switched to music, and um I still wasn't quite locked into what I wanted just yet.

SPEAKER_03

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

When I graduated from high school, you know, for first of all, in high school, my freshman year was when 9-11 happened, which kind of rocked everybody's world. And it's difficult to like figure out, okay, well, what do I what what does any of this mean? What is any of this for? Which I feel kind of resonates with the experience of a lot of these kids that were in high school or going off to college during the pandemic.

SPEAKER_06

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01

You know what I mean? What a what a crazy experience to have where the whole world gets flipped on its head and nobody can really tell you what the future looks like. How do you have confidence in the future for yourself? So I I I kind of fell into that psyche for a while, um, trying to make heads and tails of things as a kid. Um, and so when it was time to graduate, I had no idea what I wanted to do. But I worked with my father in his community theater company and uh alongside his projects that he would do at uh at our church. Um, and I was his right hand. So I had a place to be. I loved teaching, I loved kids, um, and I was passionate about that. Um, so I stuck around in in New York and I I went to community college for a couple years until I did a production of Dream Girls, ironically, when I was 19 with a whole bunch of my current friends, it was amazing. Um, and it I really I will never forget the moment of being on that stage and doing that production when I realized, oh my god, I have to do this for the rest of my life.

SPEAKER_03

Wow.

SPEAKER_01

It was one of those very rare moments, little aha moments that you get.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um, and then from then I went on to um to a specialized school for musical theater, and then my career began after that.

SPEAKER_06

Got you. So was that school kind of had a good networking thing that got you right into, I guess, opportunities?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. I mean, I think the beauty of living in New York City is that you are in the central hub for our industry. Right. It didn't make sense to me to leave New York to come back to New York to try to figure out, you know, how to survive. So I I stayed here and I went to Amda, which was right across the street from Lincoln Center, right down the block from my high school, and kind of tried to make connections and network there. Um, and which really ended up working for for me, working in my favor. There were so many resources that I had, and I didn't have to relocate back to New York to figure out what I was doing. Um, so it was it was it was pretty awesome.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah, that's great. Yeah. That's great. And I mean, again, you it's not like you uh knew the city was foreign to you. You went to high school in the city, yeah, and then of course your dad kind of conquered Broadway in a sense. So you didn't have nothing to fear in that way. So um, what was like your biggest challenge coming up in into that theater circle?

SPEAKER_01

I think it was my dad. Honestly, not not so much him as a as an individual, but his legacy and the expectation when you step into rooms.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um, and it took a long time for me to gain confidence on my own to believe like I'm good because I'm good and not because my parents told me because they have to tell me. Right. So it's that weird in-between of like, oh mom and dad, you don't know what's good, but also like you do know what's good. And so it's you know, it's hard to like strike that that balance um in independent of any other um uh uh attributions. So I think that has always been a hard thing for me, is is not feeling like my talent is connected to anything else, that it's freestanding. Um and that I didn't also then have to fulfill uh what other people think I'm supposed to be as a diva or as a certain attitude or a certain like um style or approach. I I had a hard time figuring out not necessarily a hard time, but I think the thing that I love the most about theater is how rangy it can be. You can do classical, you can sing classically, you can sing gospel, you can sing pop, you can sing rock, you can sing jazz, you can sing country, begam it, rap, all of the all of the above in theater, you can do all of the things and not be pigeon-holded, held into one, but it's still very much a pigeon-hole-y kind of industry, yeah, especially for African Americans. Yeah, you know, and I think like now we're getting to a different time, but when I first started in the industry, I really didn't know where I fit in, and I tried to fit in, and I think that was the biggest mistake of trying to fit into what people expected of me. It was a hard, it was a hard lesson to learn.

SPEAKER_06

Absolutely. I I could imagine, I mean, it's funny you bring up pigeonhole and and being black in the theater. We just went to see Gatsby.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_06

Because it had the late young lady.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, she was amazing. Oh, she ain't no joke. She was amazing. She ain't no joke.

SPEAKER_06

She was she was the best singer in the gr in the show. But I mean, hands down. Hands down. I mean, it was the there was a couple of people like um Gatsby was pretty good. But she Jeremy Jordan, I think, he's back in. He was good. He's he's excellent. He was that voice is good. He's a good tenor. Velvet. Um, but yeah, she she had the stuff. She had she had the stuff. But that was my wife really wanted to see her, like, because she's like, she's probably not gonna be in it for long. But yeah, but again, that I'm sure there was some controversy probably behind that, which I'm sure there always is.

SPEAKER_01

There's always something.

SPEAKER_06

Because people think like, no, that's this kind of role. You know, so um, have you ever had to deal with any of that?

SPEAKER_01

Yes and no. I think I've gotten the opportunity to witness it more than I've experienced it. Um, my my Broadway debut was um color purple. Okay, and so there's every color of black, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's every range of black, and I think what's more popular in our industry is colorism rather than you know uh just overt racism, there's definitely colorism, uh, but I think that we're kind of moving along. The wheel is starting to come along, not necessarily not to 2026 standards, not where it should be, right? But it does come along. Um, and there's a lot more stories coming out, and um black uh writers and directors are having more opportunities now to be able to be on that side of the table because that's the biggest problem, right? Is that there haven't been enough of us on the creative top side of this table to help shape and tell our stories. Right. So you can't like uh Memphis wasn't was a really fun musical, but it had a lot of flaws because it was a predominantly Caucasian creative team. Right telling the story of a black woman in a time where race was huge. Right, you know, so while I have done the show, I enjoy the show, you know, and there are good things to be taken away from it, that has been kind of the archetype in the industry up until recently.

SPEAKER_03

Right.

SPEAKER_01

And there are some shows coming to Broadway next season. I can't even tell you.

SPEAKER_06

They're gonna be so good. We're looking forward to it.

SPEAKER_01

Oh man, it's gonna be it's gonna be a really good season.

SPEAKER_06

Now, speaking of bringing shows, you were you you were part of producing the wonderful world?

SPEAKER_01

I was not in the producing team. My husband was on the creative team. Yeah, he was the um he was a top choreographer for the show.

SPEAKER_06

Okay, that was amazing.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_06

It was as a matter of fact, I I was happy I got to see it when your your dad was there when we were. Oh, yeah, you guys.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, right, right, right. I remember now.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah, it was it was a fighting in the parking lot to get our cars, but that parking lot. That was a different thing. Yeah, that parking lot is crazy.

SPEAKER_01

We stopped parking over there because that parking lot atrocious. But that's I mean, parking in New York. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's New York, so it's a pain. But um, yeah, no, we we had a great time with that show. We I was I'm very close friends with James Winrole Eigelhart, um, and he was uh one of the co-directors. I was friends with um Christina, who also was a co-director. Um, and we had been with the show from my husband from the uh from its genesis in 2020. Um, but I joined in I think 2023, I want to say, um, and was kind of very close knit with the creative team and and and and the different iterations that came forward from that time. Um, but it was it was quite an experience. Um, it was my first time originating a role on Broadway, which is the top tier for me. Like replacing is nice, being on Broadway is great, it's all wonderful, good stuff. But for me, at this stage in my career, my heart lies in originating. I want to originate. That's that's really what I want to do as much as I can. Um, no, no poo-poo on anything else. Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_06

Just like oh, but no, that's that's a different experience.

SPEAKER_01

It's a different experience. It's it's so it's so fun to experience that magic for the first time when you're collaborating with people and and and and we had such an incredible cast. It was a really great show. I'm really sorry that it closed, but no, I enjoyed it. Broadway is tough, man. The lifespan on Broadway is is very short, and 90% of the shows that opened last season are all closed.

SPEAKER_06

That's wow.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's it's a tough industry, yeah.

SPEAKER_06

That's wild. I mean, like I I see it seems like um we went to see Alicia Key's show, uh Health Kitchen, yeah. Uh last year. And I I don't I wonder if that's gonna be I think it's supposed to be closing. It's closing very soon, yeah. And so it's like it's almost like uh we gotta make room for the next thing almost.

SPEAKER_01

A lot of times that is the case. Um, sometimes it it it a lot of it has to do with politics and you know, the people who own the theater and their conversations with and agreements with other places and other things. So there's a lot that goes into it. Um, but that was quite a wonderful show. I really is quite a wonderful show. I've got a lot of friends who have done it, who've passed through it, um, who are currently in it. Um and um I'm just grateful that we got an opportunity to show that something like that can run, can be successful, can win Tonies, can blow the roof off, you know, excuse me, for for more than a year, sorry. Sorry, I'm sorry. Um and really leave its mark. Like Keisha, Keisha Lewis winning that Tony for that role was just so incredible and iconic, yeah. Um, and such a such a deserving situation. Um and all and all the talent, all of the talent that has come through those doors.

SPEAKER_06

I s I saw one there was one, there was someone who I think it was not this Tony season, the last Tony season, who was talking about how there were several uh shows that were like led by women of color, like right on the same row. And I thought that that was kind of crazy. And then of course they were all up for like Tony's and stuff. Absolutely, yeah. Sounds amazing. I mean, listen, uh, it's it's just great to see. Like honestly, I didn't know what to expect going to see that one, but I was pleasantly surprised. Like, I said, okay, we're hearing her music, but we're seeing it reimagined, and you know, I thought it was very creative, yeah. And I thought that, you know, just the fact that she did that, I thought that that was major for her. So kudos to Alicia Keys.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, she did that, she really did, and it was fun because it was right next to Hel's kitchen, right next to the apartment complex that she was talking about, and many of us have you know hung out in. So it felt it felt like you could hold on to it. You know what I mean? Yeah, it was funny.

SPEAKER_06

Now I remember seeing uh Carrie, you know Carrie, uh in uh the Tupac musical. Oh yeah, which was crazy that they even had one. Again, it was crazy that you even did it, but again, there's no limits on what you could do creatively, so it's just a matter of like will people support it? Will they how long will it last? kind of thing. But it was actually done well, and I mean rap in and of itself is always kind of a a tricky thing. Yes, I thought um Lynn Manuel, I mean he's incredible Hamilton. That was crazy. I mean, even uh in the heights was crazy, absolutely, but like Hamilton, what was that like?

SPEAKER_01

Man, I was with Hamilton for seven years. Uh I joined in 2017 uh as a universal Skylar sister. So that means that I covered all three of the sisters, which are the lead lead roles, and I would stay predominantly with the Broadway company and go on as needed. Um, but I was the only person that would go to the various companies across the states uh if the girls were down, if somebody was out and stuff like that. So uh that I made sure it was I kept the show coming.

SPEAKER_05

You think we need a good Skylar?

SPEAKER_01

So it was it was a it was a crazy experience. I wouldn't trade it for anything in the world. It was really incredible to have the opportunity and to work with so many incredible, so many incredibly talented people. Yeah. Um, and with such a great team because they have they are their team is the is top tier. Yeah, yeah. Everybody, every staff member is just every stage manager, every company manager, all of them. Wardrobe, everyone was wonderful. Yeah. Um, so it was you get spoiled. You get spoiled of it. I mean, the show was hard. Oh, yeah. It's three hours long, so you're working your butt off for those whole three hours. Um, but it it it was a revolutionary experience.

SPEAKER_06

And and it's crazy because I think about it like, first of all, how did he come up with that concept in the first place? But I thought it was I thought it was clever because I feel like if you're gonna bring rap to Broadway, you have to bring it in a theme that is universal. And America is a universal theme, the history of America, the history of America. So, I mean, who's not gonna want to see that if you're American? Everybody, so I think that that was like one of the most clever things that you could do. I mean, there's some shows I see we got to see uh some of the Carol King tour, but it but it actually we were watching it at this theater, right? Um, our outdoor theater, and it was about to be a thunderstorm. So we got to see the first half of it. Oh no, but it was so good, yeah. And we're just like, you know what? Like, there's stories that capture different emotions because of the way that they're put together. So um, that was a great one. What was your favorite? Uh oh, you you probably just said it. But what was your favorite show that you that you did, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

It was definitely Hamilton. Hamilton, definitely. I mean, the having the opportunity to play all three of the sisters, you get to play completely different versions of yourself. Um, I was fortunate enough to take over the role of Angelica for the last two years that I was there, which was incredible. Um, and I would, you know, love to do it again, but it is it's a sacrifice when you have kids. It's a different kind of sacrifice because I had both of my girls over the pandemic. And so going back to work and having that demanding of a schedule and that demanding of a job because it requires such heavy lifting in your lifestyle period. Wow, it it it's it's it's it's a grave sacrifice to everything else in your life. But I did love every moment of it, but I loved it. I loved it. I love the show. Um, there's a show that's coming out in the fall that I got the opportunity to um to uh be a part of that I'm really excited about. I wish I could talk about it, but I can't. You don't gotta talk about it.

SPEAKER_06

But we'll talk about it later.

SPEAKER_01

We'll talk about it later.

SPEAKER_06

Now let me ask you this question. Have you been part of like um the real genesis of shows where like what I hear is that there's a lot of workshopping and stuff like that. So what's that process like? I've heard, but I don't really know.

SPEAKER_01

There's a lot, there's a lot that goes into it. Um lots of different iterations and versions of the thing. Some people start off with just table reads. I've been in for many, many table reads, you know. Sometimes that's just a call. Somebody you have a relationship with someone, they're like, I know who could do this role, call this person, right? She'll do it. Sometimes it's, you know, and that's just so that just so they can hear it out loud. Basically, there's no audience, there's nobody really there. Sometimes there's a camera there.

SPEAKER_06

Just to go back and listen to it again.

SPEAKER_01

Mm-hmm. People just want to hear what is this that we have.

SPEAKER_06

Right.

SPEAKER_01

Um, so I've done many of those. There's been workshops where it's like, we think we have something, we're gonna put these pieces, the script, these dance moves, and this music together to see what we have. Is this cohesive? Like let's put it on its feet, but it's also just for us.

SPEAKER_03

Right. No audience. Right.

SPEAKER_01

Um, and the camera. And that has been a really exhilarating experience. There are readings where you have 29 hours and you can read from your books, you know what I mean? And you You're on a stage and you have blocking and there's an audience out there. Sometimes those people are potential investors. Sometimes it's just regular audience members. You just don't know. But it's just so that people can gauge other people's interest.

SPEAKER_03

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_01

Um, there are, you know, runs at small theaters like uh New World Stages and you know, smaller off-Broadway plays. So there's so many different steps in the journey to get show shows to a full-fledged production. Typically, before they go to Broadway or before they try to get to Broadway, there's um some kind of out-of-town regional situation. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_06

And there's like specific theaters like Seattle and different places. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. When we did our out-of-town trial of Wonderful World, we went to uh um New Orleans because that's um Louis Armstrong's hometown. Oh wow. Um, which was incredible.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

It was incredible, but also the culture is very different. Yeah, very different there. I mean, they had QR codes on the back of their seats so people can scan it and order drinks to their chairs. I said that is the smartest thing I have ever seen. I don't have the code.

SPEAKER_06

I've seen that at churches before.

SPEAKER_01

QR codes on the back of the code on the back and pay you can pay us right now. Right. You ain't got no excuse, no.

SPEAKER_05

Hey, check me with the times. All right, right.

SPEAKER_01

So it's it's it was it was really incredible. It was a huge theater. Um, but that that was definitely to get people to talk. Um, but then our there was, and that was a very specific demographic, a lot of tourists, but a lot of locals, um and just a very specific type of audience. Then we went to Chicago. Chicago is kind of like the next next thing like the other New York it's like the other New York, it's like New York at half speed and a lot cleaner, you know what I mean? I love Chicago. I've been there so much. Oh man, I love I love Chicago. Um, but that has a very different audience, a very smart audience. They're very savvy when it comes to theater. So their response, the way you know their reviews, if you put them side by side with the reviews from uh uh New Orleans, they you it's like they're talking about two different shows. Wow, you know what I'm saying? So the people that are coming to see the show, some are more seasoned than others, different value systems. So that can be really confusing and challenging when you are planning on bringing the show to broad because you don't know what the takeaway is gonna be anymore. Um, but that but the theater district in Chicago is yeah fantastic. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06

Cool, cool, cool. So what's um what was the most challenging role you had?

SPEAKER_01

The most challenging role I've had. Probably I did a show. Um I want to make sure I'm saying the right thing. I'm gonna say Pearl. I did a show I I originated a role of Pearl Bailey in a production in 2012, and I reprised that role off Broadway in 2015, which is when I met my husband. Um, and the hardest thing about that show is that it's only a five or six-person cast. Okay. And you're spanning about 60 years of life. But you're going through these huge emotional heights of her life and career during such a tumultuous time in our history as a black woman um in the in entertainment, um, in the forefront, who was married four times, eventually married a white man who she lived with, you know, and stayed with until the day she died. Um, you know, in a time when that was absolutely forbidden.

SPEAKER_04

Right.

SPEAKER_01

Um and it was just it was just high emotion, peak emotion, peak emotion, peak emotion from one scene to the next, different age, different time period, different location, different stakes. Um, so it was definitely, it definitely helped to sharpen my acting chops and helped me be more grounded and confident in my skills and my abilities. Um, but that that was probably the hardest show I've done so far. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06

Now, how many shows do you think you've done? Or do you know exactly? I've done this many. You don't know?

SPEAKER_01

I mean, on a on a based off of the level of contract, a production contract, my first production contract was like the top-tier contract that you can do with um with um actors equity or union. Uh the first one was my first national tour with Motown.

SPEAKER_06

Okay. The musical.

SPEAKER_01

The musical. I was a swing. I had covered, I think, six parts. Then was the color purple.

SPEAKER_06

The first one or the the the second one with Cynthia Revo and um I saw you in that one too.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06

Oh that one had Danielle, Jennifer Hudson was in it at one point. But then I think someone else, Heather Hedley was in it.

SPEAKER_01

Heather Headley.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah. Um, Carrie was in that one. So I think we saw that like five times. You know, I love Carrie. First of all, that was such a good production. Yeah. Oh my gosh, it was so good. It was so good. It was so good. And then when I got to see you do it, I was like, okay, yeah, this is worth it. Yeah. It was great. It was great.

SPEAKER_01

It was, it was uh, it was my Broadway debut. Uh I held it very near and dear to my heart. Um, but that was my second production contract. Of course, there were shows in between those two, but they were like regional, right? You know, stuff like that. Um, my following production contract was Hamilton, and I stayed there for a seven year. That's good. That's it's amazing, but you change as a person so much in that time. Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? That when you come out and now it's time to reintroduce yourself to like casting and get reacclimated to what it means to audition in person.

SPEAKER_06

For something that's probably totally different, too.

SPEAKER_01

Totally different. And people, you're also like trying to stake your claim like I'm not just this thing that you're seeing me as. Right. I can do these things too, which is a tricky thing in the industry because if you don't, it sucks. If I can, if I can just, you know, ever on this topic a little bit, yeah. You are this industry is so about like the versatility and being able to do so many different things and wear so many different hats and the triple threat and the this and the that. But if you don't brand yourself specifically for them, they can't see you as that specific thing.

SPEAKER_03

Wow.

SPEAKER_01

So even though you can go to my website and you can see me play this person, you can see me play this person, you can see me play this person. If I walk into the room and you don't get that brand from me, that one singular brand for that particular project, then I stand out to have more value as either an understudy or a cover.

SPEAKER_03

Wow.

SPEAKER_01

Because then I can do more jobs.

SPEAKER_03

Right.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, she can do all of them. So let's hire her to do all of them. And then you wind up understudying, understudying this person, understudying that person, and having to have the ability to jump from this to this to this. So you end up work, it works against you when you're really good at multiple things, even though this industry is the industry of all of the things.

SPEAKER_06

Wow. Sorry. Catch 22. It's like catch 22. So what um let me ask this question. Hold on. Uh what was your least favorite? Well, maybe you don't gotta say that because maybe that's like maybe the producer who hear. Yeah. Oh, you didn't like that one, huh?

SPEAKER_01

I don't know if I have a least favorite.

SPEAKER_06

I You just like doing it, period.

SPEAKER_01

I love to do what we do. I love the opportunity to get on stage, tell a story. Um, my least favorite, I don't know if I have a least one.

SPEAKER_06

Just had what something that was more difficult, but not necessarily a least favorite.

SPEAKER_01

Maybe it would probably be being a swing specifically in Motown, although I love that show.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

That album, if you have not listened to the Motown opening number, good God, you must listen to that. I gotta check it out. Oh good. The opening number for the Motown musical is incredible. Um, but if I wasn't a swing, I probably would have enjoyed it a lot more. But because I covered so many parts and some of those were more dance tracks, and which gave me heart palpitations because I'm not a dancer anymore, you know, that would probably probably my least favorite responsibility, but I love the show.

SPEAKER_06

Gotcha. Gotcha. Now, what I mean I'll be having these these questions, like, oh, I'm gonna ask this question. Um, all right, so now I gotta remember my question. Okay, take your time. Uh, what was my question? This I need the cue cards now. Um oh man.

unknown

Take a time. I'll get it. I'll get the question.

SPEAKER_06

Um let me ask this question. What is a role that you didn't get that you always wanted? Now that was the question I was gonna ask you.

SPEAKER_01

Man, I rehearse the roles that haunt me or the auditions, specifically the auditions that haunt me. Like today, I was just like rolling over about this one audition that happened months ago. Wow. That I just keep replaying the scene in the room. And I'm like, something that I learned a long time ago is to trust what God blocks. And I know that it just had to be orchestrated for me not to get it because I knew I could, I knew I could kill it. And for whatever reason, I got in the room and I became a moron. I don't know.

unknown

I don't know.

SPEAKER_01

I was like, what is happening to my mouth? I don't, I don't understand what's going on. This is not who I am.

SPEAKER_05

It was it was This is not what I normally do, man.

SPEAKER_01

And it's and and when you say that, it just makes it worse.

SPEAKER_05

So I didn't man. This never happens.

SPEAKER_01

Never happens to me. But I was completely capable. It was a it was a workshop actually with Lynn. Okay.

SPEAKER_04

Manuel Miranda.

SPEAKER_01

And I went in for it. I went in for it, and I was so excited, but it was one of those days where it's like, gotta pick up the kids, gotta rush to the city, yeah, you know, in the middle of rush hour. I'm sweating, I didn't eat, I forgot to eat, you know, I left this or I dropped that or something. It was just one of those days where you just couldn't get it together. You know, and I also was so excited about this audition that I was trying, I was working against myself to not get too hype. I was like, girl, just like just just go in there, just do what you can do, do your thing, do your thing. And I get in the room and I sing the song, I knock it out. They're like, yeah, get up, start to work with the director, and she starts asking me to do things a certain way. And I'm like, yeah, I can do that. Wait, let me look at the paper. I just sang the whole song. Why are you looking at working against yourself? Oh well, let me go look at the oh well, let me um, and then she was like, Well, do it this way. And I'm like, but wait, girl, let me do what you asked me. You don't want me to do that? Okay, so I'll do it. You've moved on already, right? She kept moving the line as I'm trying to like do what she ex executing. I mean, she's I'm sure she's an incredible um um director. I just think that our our energies went like this.

SPEAKER_05

Right, you know, you were over here, she's over here.

SPEAKER_01

And I felt I just keep replying the whole audition in my head. I'm like, why didn't you eat, girl? Why didn't you eat? I didn't take the pressure off a little bit. You know, if you had to just slow down that day, but I know I had the kids in the car and we were doing life, life still. You know what I mean? It was just a bad audition, and it still to the every time I close my eyes at night, I think about it. I'm not even kidding you. I I have to like, you know, but it's it's just one of those hurts that you have to comes with the industry. Yeah, you know what I mean? And you have to trust that there was a reason why that didn't work out. There are other things that will come along. I've I've booked something else that's I was auditioning for that same week that I'm supposed to start rehearsals for next week. And um, so everything happens for a reason. Yeah, you know, during the time of the workshop, uh I actually was in Angola with my husband because he's creating a uh program at a school, an arts program at a school. So I went down with him during that time. So, you know, I wouldn't have been able to go down with him. Right and that is really was really, really very important, impactful work. Yeah. And so I try to like recenter my thought to that. Like anytime, you know, regret or remorse or kicking myself comes up, I resort to what did I do in that time instead. This is what I did. I spent time with my kids that I will never get back. I spent, you know, time with these kids in Angola that I that was really meaningful for both of us. A huge reminder to me about purpose and why we do what we do. So you know, just trying to lean into those things.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah, when it's otherwise you can be like, uh, where's a bottle? No, trust me. I trust me, I know, I know. And I and sometimes it's just God just has a way of like deciding things for us sometimes. Um, not even sometimes, all the time, but sometimes things that he knows we want or we desire, and it's like, nah, that's not the one for you. Or not now, not now, or you know, so yeah, and listen, I I wrestle with those things personally. So I I when you just said that, I said, Yes. There's things that I've had to wrestle with in the middle of the night. But again, when you it's like we're so close to it sometimes that we only see it from this perspective. It's true. As we zoom out, yes, we start to see a lot more of the picture that God is looking at. And I think that um, you know, he he his will is perfect. So how is faith help you in this journey?

SPEAKER_01

Well, ironically, the this was a similar I I okay. The original moment when the trust with God blocks really stuck with me was back in 2014 when I was still on the road with Motown and everyone was auditioning for the color purple. I signed in my audition tape and they asked me to um come in for a callback. So I'm on the road, so that means I'm spending my money to travel. To come back to New York to for a callback. Um rather, I think I had a callback for shuffle along. That's what I had a callback for, which I flew back in for. Um, but I was hoping to get a callback for call color purple, and I didn't. And everybody in my cast got callbacks.

SPEAKER_03

Wow.

SPEAKER_01

Every everybody in my cast got callbacks, you know, da da da. But when I got a response, their response was you're not right for the show.

SPEAKER_06

For color purple.

SPEAKER_01

For color purple.

SPEAKER_06

Wow.

SPEAKER_01

So I'm thinking, he's people of a another hue gonna tell me I'm not right for all black show. That doesn't make any sense. Um, so it did it did get me in my feelings, but it was like one of those things where it's like, girl, just water off a dog duck's back, you know what this industry is, don't take a personal like your friends are in there, your friends are kicking butt, root for them and move on.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um, and so when I came off the road um and to Du Pearl and started getting and got called back in for it, I was like, why are they calling me in?

SPEAKER_03

Right.

SPEAKER_01

Why are you calling me in? You've already told me I'm not good for this show. You don't, you know, I'm not right for this show.

SPEAKER_03

Right.

SPEAKER_01

You know, at this point I was so fed up. You already dissed me. Right, you know what I'm saying? I already didn't disrespect it. Right. Um, but I had a good friend who was on the um a creative team, he was the MD of the show. Not uh Jason, Jason, Jason. Oh yeah. Um but I'd known him for over a decade by that point, and um I was like, I'm sure he's gotta be the one asking me to come in for this. So I was like, okay, it was relationships are everything. Hey, it worked. Relationships are everything, right? Right, absolutely. Um and so when I was kept on getting called back in for these callbacks and final calling backs, I was like, I don't know why these people are calling me in for this when they know that they already said what they said, yeah. You know what I'm saying? They said I'm not right for the show, you know, and I was holding on to that. And eventually, obviously, I booked it. Um, but it was one of those things similarly to our conversation about you know not being the right time. Yeah. It wasn't the right time. I wasn't supposed to do it then, I was supposed to do it later. And as Kismet would have it, my final week there or my final months there would be spent with Jennifer Holiday, who played in on Broadway with my dad. Three, 40 years ago. You know what I mean? Like, who can orchestrate that?

SPEAKER_06

Exactly. You know what I'm saying? I mean, I again, when I think about it, when I take time, because I have to get over it first. Because I I can get upset, I can be like, listen, I don't want to talk. Oh, yeah. What's my favorite food to eat at this moment? You know, those things. And so, you know, again, human reaction. But again, when I think about it, I'm like, okay, God knows what my heart is, he knows my intentions, right, and he knows who I am. He knows me through and through more than anybody else. Everybody's gonna judge what they know, and they're gonna act according to what he allows them to do anyway. So I gotta look at it from that lens. And when I do, it's like, you know what? You know what I want ultimately. And maybe this thing that I want to hear has nothing to do with what I want ultimately. So let me just look at it and just look forward to what else you're gonna do.

SPEAKER_01

So and he never disappoints, he never disappoints, it's always there's always a reason, and I just try to get out of my own way in enough time to where I don't miss it.

SPEAKER_06

Absolutely, don't miss it, girl. Absolutely. So now let me ask this question. Um, I mean, how how what was your dad's reaction when you first got your first major thing on Broadway?

SPEAKER_01

Well, it's such a funny story because I tell this, I tell the color purple story often when I'm like speaking at schools or if I go to like a graduation or whatever. Um because prior to booking that, I like I said, I was on the road with Motown. I came back to New York like on fire, ready to like I don't want to be a swing anymore. You know, I'm origin, you know, I'm gonna originate this role off Broadway, you know, leading lady, you know, it's my time, da-da-da-da-da. And I come, I do the role. And after that, I had such a dry spell. I had such a dry spell, I couldn't get in the room anywhere, you know, for like a year. I was, you know, working at a temp agency. Um, and then I would, you know, hop on a bus or excuse me, head out to Long Island to understudy somebody at at a regional theater on a show that, you know, ain't nobody coming to see. You know what I'm saying? Like it would, I mean, I did it, you know. Hey, you gotta work. I I needed to work. I I was able to work on a show with Jason Michael Webb um and uh up at the Apollo Theater, which was really awesome. Um, so I got to do awesome things in that time, but it was a really challenging season for me because my uh I expected my expectation was that things were gonna take off once I got back to the city, and they did the exact opposite. And I was so down and so depressed. Um and by the time I oh, this was it. So there was a this is the story that I always tell the tickets. Um, I'm auditioning, I'm not getting in the room, nobody's biting, you know, and I was looking at, you know, a um a uh article about how a young lady, uh maybe it was an article or a social media post, or maybe a friend told me about it. I can't remember how I found out about this, but there was a young woman who was supposed to be in one of these big black shows that was coming to Broadway. And she went through the whole process. She was in rehearsals, she built the show and the script and had a song and had all these wonderful things. Um, and they're on Broadway in previews, which is the rehearse the performance period before they lock the show and say, This is this is how we're gonna do the show. Right. Costumes have been made, got you, you know, songs have been written, you're in your final stages, and her entire role got completely cut. Wow, completely cut, and this is one of the shows that I went out for. Um, and when I found out about that, I could not fathom that kind of like going next for in the process, and then you know what?

SPEAKER_06

I don't even think this belongs in here.

SPEAKER_01

Like, you know what? We changed our mind about you. You can leave it. Wow. My God, like how painful must that have been for her? Like, how devastating. Um, so I remember praying. I remember like going in, like praying really hard and just saying, Lord, bless this woman. Wherever she goes, whatever she does, please fill her cup, you know, keep her, keep her mind. Keep her heart. I don't know what she's going through, but I can't imagine what that must feel like. The next show that I'm in final callbacks for, I'm hearing somebody wear the room out. And I'm sitting here wringing my hands. Now, mind you, I ain't gotten, I ain't booked the show in a year, you know. And I'm I'm just worried and I'm really trying to get in there. My husband was already slated to be a part of the show. I knew people in the team, and I'm like, God, I really hope I really just need a win, Lord. I just need a win. And I hear her wailing somebody out in the room, and then she opens the door, and it's the girl I prayed for.

SPEAKER_06

Pray for her to get that role instead of you. But that's right, right. You know what I'm saying? Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_01

And she did get the role, and I did not. And I remember because I was just so down in the dumps about myself and my career, and did I make a mistake and da-da-da-da-da. But I couldn't even be mad. I was like, you know what, Lord, what's for me is for me, and what's for her is for her. And not even a month later did I book Color Purple.

SPEAKER_03

Wow.

SPEAKER_01

So if I had booked that show, I wouldn't have to be able to do that. You wouldn't have been able.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So that's when trust with God blocks really came into view for me. Because like it wasn't for me, it was for her.

SPEAKER_03

Right.

SPEAKER_01

She needed that win.

SPEAKER_03

Right.

SPEAKER_01

You know. Um, and the win that was for me was specifically for me.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

You know, and set the tone and the bar for all of the shows and the successes that were to follow for me. Um, so that was a huge, huge moment in testing of my faith for a like a long time. Um in my in that stage and period of my career. Now I'm in a completely different stage and period as a parent, as a mother of two young kids in an industry that is crazy. This industry is nuts, but I love it and I feel called to it. Um and it and it definitely has a ton of challenges. You still have terrible auditions, you still botch it, you still walk out the room like, what was that? I know I should have killed that. I sort of killed it, and then I unraveled, and why? You know what I mean? So even over 10 years later, I can say I'm still learning and still living by faith and still experiencing similar pains, but I I know that they'll that I'll be fine. I know that I'll come out on the other side with a win, and I know that God has got me covered, and there's a reason for everything. It still hurts, it still sucks.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah, you feel it, absolutely. You know, rejection's rejection.

SPEAKER_01

Oof, and this industry is all about rejection, and it's all you can't say it's not personal, right? You know what I'm saying? Like the rejection is personal. It's like she's too short. Right, right. She's too this, she's too that.

SPEAKER_05

You had nothing to do with right.

SPEAKER_01

No, it has everything to do with you. She is just not, she ain't it. You know what I'm saying? So you just gotta get a thick skin.

SPEAKER_06

What what would be the ideal? Um, like what what what goals do you still have in this industry? I'm sure you have some.

SPEAKER_01

I have tons. Um, I my dreams are always in the original cast category. It's always about creating new, powerful stories that reach people. Um and for me, uh selfishly, I have idolized the Tony Awards for obvious reasons, but I've never been to the Tony Awards. I would love to go at some point, whether as a participant or just as a viewer, it's something that I've always wanted to do. Um being on a cast album, we didn't get to record a cast album with our last show, which definitely was hurtful, but you know, go comes with the territory. Um and when you are someone that often replaces for understudies, those opportunities don't come to you really as often. Um of course, the year I was fortunate enough that when we did the um when we were in the pandemic, I was asked to do uh the Macy's Day Parade um for as Angelica Skylar. Nice. Um, which was thrilling, but it was a very different experience because everything was pre-recorded and everything was like COVID and testing and all these different things. So, you know, I would love to experience the the promoting version of the normal parade. You know what I mean? I didn't get a chance to do it last year because for whatever reason it was the only year that the networks, I don't know if it was NBC or CBS or whoever, they just couldn't, they decided we're not doing shows, we're not promoting Broadway shows this year, except for these four.

SPEAKER_05

The ones we want.

SPEAKER_01

Right, exactly. It was just like this, we're here too. It didn't happen. You know, so those are like bucket list things that like kind of just you know, you don't need them, right?

SPEAKER_06

But they again, you know, it's just like there's there's checks in your like I guess to certain levels of excellence in your craft. I mean, like your dad, he checked the box in his 20s, you know.

SPEAKER_01

I'm I'm I'm the clock is ticking over here, you know what I'm saying? Twenties left a long time ago.

SPEAKER_06

And I mean the awards, I mean, you know, I watched the awards, it's amazing to be recognized by your peers and by your your industry.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06

But there's people who are never recognized and have amazing careers.

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_06

You know what I mean? At the end of the day, it's I think it's just about like now.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_06

I will I would like all of them. But but it's still about you know, just creating good product and and and just to me fulfilling everything that God put you here for. Absolutely. Because if you do that, that's the only prize that really matters, to be honest.

SPEAKER_05

But you know, if you're gonna be here, you might as well get a couple more things on the wall, you know, a little trophy case, you know what I'm saying? Right, exactly.

SPEAKER_06

It's nothing um that you should be ashamed of uh looking for. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And putting on your checklist.

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_06

What about this one?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it'd be nice. I mean, I'm not I mean, you know, you know, whatever you want to do.

SPEAKER_06

Put mine next to dad's right. But um, so what I have a student now that he was he was a very silly student, but I realized that you know, he belongs in creative space, you know, and so he's he's now singing, he's just started doing acting. And so I I told him, I was like, you know, I'm gonna talk to somebody that's right up your alley. What advice would you give someone who is at that beginning stage of like they haven't even really been formally trained yet, but they have the opportunity in front of them. Like knowing what you know now, even throughout your journey, what would like what advice I mean from the starting to the middle to you know how old is he? He's about 17.

SPEAKER_01

Just do it, honestly. I I that's not the advice, but that's Nike. That's also my husband, because my husband's name is Do It, but that's kind of my segue because you know, my husband, who is a phenomenal tap dancer, incredible tap dancer, didn't start dancing until he was 17. Wow, he didn't start. My my father did not study ballet or take a dance class until he went to Juilliard at 19. Wow, you know what I'm saying? Like people start late, yeah. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_06

Yeah, I don't these days there's no late.

SPEAKER_01

There is no late, and you never know. Like some people, this this industry is not linear. Yeah, it is not linear. You will be at the top of your game one year and at the bottom of the total pole in the next three months. You know what I'm saying? In terms of status, hierarchy, you know, whatever. Um, and you'll be side by side with somebody who just got here yesterday and somebody who's been here for 50 years.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

You you will be shoulder to shoulder with these people at every stage of your career.

SPEAKER_03

Wow.

SPEAKER_01

And so it's just just go for it. Learn as much as you can, learn what you're good at, you know, uh uh um strengthen your strengths and manage your weaknesses, you know. Um and just don't feel like don't have destination syndrome, destination syndrome. Don't feel like when I get this, I'll be happy. When I get to this point, I'll be happy. Kind of you'll keep having that.

SPEAKER_06

You'll keep having a new one, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

The line will just keep moving every time you accomplish something. If you don't learn how to really look out, zoom out, like you said, take different perspectives to that, to that experience. Oh man, life's gonna whoop your butt. Like you just gotta zoom out, appreciate it for what it is, keep going, you know, and live in the present moment. I mean, and these are all hard things to do. They're all things that you continue to learn how to do. It's not like here is this magic button that teaches you how to live in the present. It's a it's something, it's a muscle that has to be exercised. Joy is a muscle that has to be exercised. Discipline is a muscle that has to be exercised, but also patting yourself on the back, being proud of the work that you do, you know, and your accomplishments, however, however big or small, that's all part of learning to do it on a on a on a on a regular basis. It's hard, but that's kind of that is kind of how life is and it's exhausting, but it's worth it.

SPEAKER_06

Absolutely. Now, what's what's what's your go-to preparation? You have an audition coming up. How do you prepare for it?

SPEAKER_01

Um I hate auditioning. I mean, I think it's it's you it's different for each audition, but you know, you just the the challenge with auditions is if it's if it's good and you like it, you get attached. I think that's the hardest thing about auditions is that like you have to, if you're gonna do it and and do it well, you gotta like dig in. You gotta like really submerge yourself into the work and put pour yourself and your life experiences and what you know into it. Um, but then that makes it really difficult to then just no never look at that again.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01

You know what I mean? Like that was a good one.

SPEAKER_05

Uh, what else we gotta do?

SPEAKER_01

All right, like moving on. I don't I don't have any auditions for another four months. Okay, that's fine.

SPEAKER_05

Let's just let's sing these songs to ourselves for the rest of our I always wonder how like uh movie actors do that because that's literally what they gotta do. It's like, all right, come on, we gotta do this scene and in action. And then cut. Yeah, so um anybody got a coffee?

SPEAKER_01

Exactly, which is why theater is so different. What are you doing? It's a completely different experience. It's you know, there's nobody saying cut. There's nobody, you know, there's no you know, memorizing camera angles. You are the you are the only one.

SPEAKER_06

You make the angle, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

You know what I'm saying? You work with the lighting team, you work with the marks that are on the stage and figure out where you're supposed to stand and interact with this person. You know what I mean? Theater is its own beast.

SPEAKER_06

Is that like your favorite? You would never want to do anything else.

SPEAKER_01

I would love to do other things. I would love to do other things, but it's a different medium, you know what I mean? Like theater, a lot of the emphasis is on making sure the back row gets it. You know what I mean? But also theatrical acting, it's been changing to be more film acting in a lot of ways. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_06

I was gonna ask you about that. Like, so we, I mean, Cynthia. Now, first of all, the first time I saw her in Color Purple, I'm like, okay, this girl is about to be a superstar. Because she was a star in there. What do you think about like the transition to film? Because that's basically what she's been doing in the past you know few years. So I think it's I enjoyed her so much in theater. I may like I she's amazing regardless, but I enjoyed her more in theater, me personally, because there's nothing in between you and them in the in the in the theater. Sure. Whereas you know, studios and TV and there's so many different l layers in between.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think aside from it being not completely different, but a very different technique, you know what I mean? The base the the bottom line is like the truth is the truth. Yeah. Um and you're always searching to find that truth and and and express that truth through these characters, um, whether it what no matter what medium it is. Um but I think on stage the challenges that you're up against are completely different than the challenges that you're up against in film. One one of which is that if you're on if you're on Broadway, you're doing this eight shows a week, you're doing the same words, the same blocking, the same material, same costumes, eight times every single week. Twice a day on two days of the week. And it and and and so keeping it fresh, you know, uh, or just keeping your you know, living a lifestyle to where your your voice and your body doesn't get worn out, yeah. Which is halfway impossible.

SPEAKER_06

I was about to ask you that. How what what's the real way of doing that?

SPEAKER_01

There is no real way. Be 20, be 20 years old. That's the way you know back in time. Right. It's just like what? Um, so it's it it is really, really challenging when it comes to just the overall fatigue um and being able to keep the the material fresh, which is part of why I think a lot of these film actors come and they'll do four months on more ready.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah, very short stints, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Very, very, very short stints. Um, because it's a it's a muscle that has to be built, you know. Um plus people have more urgency to buy tickets when they know there's a limited time.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah, it's just which is good. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

You know, um, and they're like, oh my God, I want to see Taraji. I want to see Cedric because they're doing Joe's Turner coming out in a couple months. Plug that in there. Um but yeah, it's definitely hard. TV and film is completely different because you're on a set from the crack of dawn, you're getting your makeup done. A lot of times uh scenes and scripts aren't being finalized or are put in your hands until the day up, so you have to memorize really, really fast. But I haven't done um any lengthy TV film things. I did one film and I've done a lot of background work. But um the um the challenge that I see is you know the blessing and the curse is that you have these sheets that you can take a peek at in between takes to verify that your lines are right. Right. Um but I don't think that's always the case, especially if you have like a monologue or a lengthy like scene where things break down. And you know, um I think that's more popular on movie sets than it is on TV sets. I don't know. Don't don't quote me on this. I'm not experienced enough in film and television, but I do know that there that that aspect of it is very, very different from memorizing a script and rehearsing it for weeks at a time and then having a previews period and then having a run and then having Tony voters come and then it's just a very Tony voice, Tony voters.

SPEAKER_06

Oh, voters, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, gotcha.

SPEAKER_01

Um, so it's it's a different, the stakes are different, you know. Um and also like there's different, like what it means to do this on stage is completely different from on camera. You do that on camera, people are gonna think you're crazy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_06

Are you trying too hard?

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. You blink too much on camera, and then you know, and all of a sudden, so she's a bad actor. You know what I mean? And then all of a sudden you're like doing your scenes like this. I will not blink, I will not blink. It's just a completely different medium. That's wow. But very, very few people have had the uh ability to successfully transition from theater to film for a litany of reasons, but it having a Tony does help, I will say.

SPEAKER_06

I'm sure.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06

Now, how how long into a show before you're like, okay, this show is automatic? And then conversely, before you say, Oh, this show is getting boring. Where you have to make it fresh.

SPEAKER_01

It depends. I think for me, I was with him, like I told you, I've been in Hampton for forever. But even down to my last day there, I had spots where I would when in my track, I fit into my track when I was gonna stop at this specific place backstage and do this set of lines. Every show. There was never a show when I didn't rehearse the line right before I went out because I don't want to get tongue-tied because it's a train. Right. You ain't got no time to hem and ha and figure it out. You ain't got, you know what I mean? As soon as that light hits, you and there's been a couple of you know, hold up moments for me in satisfied. But, you know, it's it's one of those things where it really just depends on who you are, I think. I I feel like I'm not, I don't like to mark. I don't, I don't the the I don't really think I have not that I don't have the ability to mark, but like if I feel like I'm doing something less than what I can, I go into overdrive. Right. You know what I mean? To compensate it. Yeah, so I think it really just depends on the actor. Some people are better at finding that balance. I just, you know, I mean, and I love Hamilton to the very last day. There are definitely moments of like in the track when you're like, why am I up here on the surround doing these hand movements? Nobody can see me. I want to go sit in my dressing room and eat Cheetos, you know. You know, there are definitely always gonna be those moments, but um, but you know, I the material just never got old to me. I I always loved it. I loved it every time, every show.

SPEAKER_06

Well, I mean, listen, like I said, you're an incredible performer, singer, actress, all of the things, and and dancer. And you know, so I look forward to seeing you this fall and whatever the secrets are. Um, and anything else, I know you I know it's gonna be great. Um, and I appreciate you coming. Yeah, any other words of wisdom you want to share?

SPEAKER_01

Um, my favorite one of my favorite phrases is um comparison is the thief of joy.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01

That's a big one for me, is when I start to feel down. I'm like, why am I feeling down? Am I comparing my journey to somebody else? Which is so easy. Especially with social media.

SPEAKER_06

Oh.

SPEAKER_01

You don't even know.

SPEAKER_06

Social media is the devil.

SPEAKER_01

Oh my God.

SPEAKER_06

For that, for that, for that reason.

SPEAKER_01

For that reason. And I'm always on there just to scroll in.

SPEAKER_05

It's like, oh, so everybody's winning, huh?

SPEAKER_01

Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_05

It's just not my winning season.

SPEAKER_01

Right, right, right. But it's like in that season, you have to learn how to just suck it up and just root for folks, like win. Yes, I want to see these wonderful, incredible artists win because they deserve it.

SPEAKER_06

And hopefully, and some people are winning, but some people aren't. I mean, some people are showing win, which again, right? You gotta do what you gotta do, you know, whatever it takes. And you don't ever want to look like you're not winning, regardless. But it doesn't mean that you're not winning, it could just mean that you're incrementally getting there, and we just don't see the final product yet.

SPEAKER_01

So you are not wrong.

SPEAKER_06

But thank you so much for coming.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you for having me. This was so much fun.

SPEAKER_06

And this was the musician shed podcast. I had this amazing musician, Miss Jenny Harney Fleming. And where can they, well, you can't tell us where you're gonna see, where we can see you, but do you have like social media or something where they can catch up with you and find out where you're gonna be when you do announce it?

SPEAKER_01

Yes, I would. My my Instagram is probably the only social media that I keep updated with any consistency because kids. But um, it's Jenny Harney Fleming at Jenny Harney Fleming, so J-E-N-N-I-E H A R N E Y F L E M I N G on Instagram, and that's pretty much the easiest way to keep up with me.

SPEAKER_06

And go follow her. And then we'll all know what she's doing in the fall, and we can all go support her. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00

Thanks for listening. To stay up to date between episodes, follow us on Facebook, TikTok, and Instagram, and make sure you're subscribed to our YouTube channel. If you liked what you heard today, or if there's something specific you want us to dive into next, leave us a comment. Catch you in the next episode.