The Musician's Shed Podcast

THE MUSICIAN'S SHED PODCAST: PETER POWERS (Full interview)

• Samar Newsome • Season 1 • Episode 13

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In this episode of The Musician's Shed, host Samar Newsome welcomes the brilliant Peter L. Powers. Peter wears many hats: he’s the Musical Director at Christ Church USA, a professional bassist and keyboardist, and an accomplished film composer.

We discuss:

  • Leading the Band: The unique challenges and rewards of being a Musical Director for a major ministry like Christ Church USA.
  • The "Dual Threat": Mastering both the bass and keys, and how being a multi-instrumentalist makes you indispensable in the industry.
  • Scoring the Story: Peter’s approach to film composition and how he translates emotion into melody.
  • Career Longevity: Advice for musicians looking to diversify their skill sets in a shifting industry landscape.

About Our Guest: Peter L. Powers is a seasoned musician and composer whose work bridges the gap between contemporary worship and cinematic scoring. His leadership at Christ Church USA has shaped the sound of their community, while his work as a session player and composer continues to garner acclaim across the industry.

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SPEAKER_01

Hey, this is Tamar Newsom, and you're locked into the Musician Chef Podcast. Today I have a very special guest, a dope, amazing musician that I've had the pleasure of working with in passing, Mr. Pete Powers. Is it Peter or Pete?

SPEAKER_02

Whatever. It's cool. What do you go by? Most most people.

SPEAKER_01

What do you make them sign your checks at?

SPEAKER_02

Checks is Peter. I even give them the initial the middle initial there, Peter L. All my friends call me Pete, and that's totally cool.

SPEAKER_01

Very good, very good, man. Well, pleasure to see you again, man. And you know, I've we're not on a gig this time. Yeah, I know. But it's good to see you, man. So listen, man, uh I've again, I've got to see you not only in on gigs and got to see, you know, your work, but also got to see you on social media, kind of going through your regimens and stuff like that, which I think is important. And this is really what what what we talk about here on the Musician Share Podcast. Tell me, tell the people who you are, what you do, sure, you know, and and kind of some of the places where you've been.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. So my name is Peter Powers. Um, I'm a music director, musician, composer, uh, arranger, all of that. Um multiple instrumentalists, dual instrumentalists, keys and and bass, and uh and uh grew up in New York and love what I do. Nice, nice.

SPEAKER_01

What part of New York did you grow up in?

SPEAKER_02

Manhattan, Hill's Kitchen.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, okay. Yes, you did you grow up with Alicia? No, right, right.

SPEAKER_02

Hell's Kitchen. Hell's Kitchen, yeah. Did you did you see the uh the the Broadway show? No, but I do want to check it out. I I didn't that's that's about you, no. Yeah, exactly. My hometown. I know about Alicia. I knew she grew up there and um and uh knew different people in in her circle, like Ray Chu, who was who helped her when she first started out. Right, right, right. Part of my journey as well. Now, was she ahead of you or like she's older than you? I think she may be a couple of years older than me. Gotcha, gotcha.

SPEAKER_01

Now, she I mean her her journey's pretty dope. Um I I'm curious how many people like because I've I don't know too many people who were like grew up in Manhattan. You know what I'm saying? That's a that's a unique place to grow up. Yeah, what was uh like how did you find music in Manhattan?

SPEAKER_02

It was it was great because I was walking distance from everywhere. I didn't even have to take the train where we lived. I could it's a 10-minute walk to Times Square, you know. Back then, colony bookstore, like I could walk there, I could walk to Central Park, I could walk to the theater district, you know.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, so you just you were accessible to everything, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and that and that was all my life. I grew up there, my parents had an apartment there, and when I became a young adult uh and moved out, got my own place actually in the same high-rise building that I grew up at. Wow, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

That's great, man. People always talk about uh what they talk about in Manhattan. It's it costs a lot, it's expensive to live there, and you don't get a lot of space. Was that true?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it depends where you live, and if you've you know, my parents had um we had I oh I never thought that we didn't have space, but it was all I knew again. Um the one thing that was foreign to me was having a car, okay, which was never part of my life, exactly. Now I drive everywhere, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

That's that's crazy because in Jersey you you just need a car, yeah. Um in other places you really need them. LA, uh Atlanta, yeah, like you're not going nowhere.

SPEAKER_02

But music is uh accessible to music. Well, when I got older, I I uh I I was gravitated towards music young. Yeah, but I was uh as I was sharing earlier, like I became involved at my church and grew into a a position there. Okay. Um, and I didn't really gig outside of the church in those those early years. Right. But as I got older, met my wife there, got married, and then branched out as an adult. Yeah, I had a I was already in a place in my life where I had family responsibilities. Yeah, so I I didn't get out as much to explore music once I really wanted to because of family responsibilities. So I wasn't like going to jazz clubs as much, even when I was at school. Um, one thing, one regret is I wish I I networked a little bit more or was able to network a little bit more, right?

SPEAKER_01

Right, right. Now that's cool. Well, um, so when you start, what was your first instrument? Keys.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, dope, dope, dope. And uh I actually went to new school as a as a jazz piano major.

SPEAKER_01

Wow, wow, okay, I didn't know that. Yeah, that's dope. How was that? How was No School? Did you get to study with like uh Glasper or something?

SPEAKER_02

Glassper was a couple of years ahead of me. Okay, um, and we met a couple of times in passing because towards the end of my time there, I got an internship at Blue Note Records. Oh, dope. So he was already signed at that time, so he would come through from time to time, and we met at the offices.

SPEAKER_01

That's fire. Yeah, I mean, it's crazy when when my cousin first told me about new school. I'm like, New school, I never heard of that. Like, you know, honestly, it wasn't really the on the map like that, you know. Everything was like Berkeley, yeah, and you know, and what's crazy, I saw him go to new school, and literally the network he built there was ridiculous. I mean, like, he's two Grammys in right now, you know what I'm saying? And so, like, and all because of that network, you know what I'm saying? And so I was fortunate to to send one of my students there because I'm like, yo, I saw what it did for my cuz. Are you talking about Dave? Dave Drake. I saw you talk with him.

SPEAKER_02

I met Dave too one one time. We have uh he was torn with Kilani. Yeah, yeah, and they were opening up for Demi Lovato. Good friend of mine is Steve Styles. Oh, okay. You know Steve? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so he was her MD at the time, and I got to watch what they do behind the scenes. That's fire.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so again, one of those things that again, Berkeley has that reputation, period. But there's other places, there's other ecosystems where if you're a part of them, you're in a circle. And to me, that circle is strong. I honestly, there was a time when I felt like Berkeley's reputation was was was kind of weaning a little bit. Not that anybody there is bad, they still got ridiculous musicians coming through there. But I just felt like even I took I had talked to some Berkeley people, and they would say that, you know what I'm saying? So, you know, but you still see amazing ones like you know, uh uh Kev Camp, uh La Derek, you know. So many Justin Rains, Charlie Pruce, all Berkeley guys. Oh, yeah, all some some dope guys. So um, so now you went to new school, you you you went there as a keyboardist, right? Now I've seen you playing bass. How'd you get into the bass? That's the funny thing.

SPEAKER_02

Uh keyboard piano was my first instrument. Okay, and again, I was like a 12-year-old kid going to this church with my with my mom, and and uh they started a a Saturday morning music program. Oh, dope. Like teaching music? Yeah, oh that's fire. So that's how I learned. And I and I it I was like a kid in a candy store.

SPEAKER_01

I love churches. You need you need to start a music program. Yeah, I love you want musicians, let grow them in your church. You can do that. That's that's a very easy low lift. That's me. I'm a product of that for sure. Yeah, I mean, that's that's an easy way to just kind of create your band for years, actually. Exactly. We got something to choose from now.

SPEAKER_02

So yeah, I I I grew a couple of years of that. Literally, two years after my first lesson there, they invited me to play aux keys on stage. Wow, okay, that's dope. And uh, and did that for a few years, and it grew into look, we're gonna we we see your talent, we see your gift, we we want to start honoring you, and we're gonna put you on staff, and and it became my job, and I grew into that, and I was very happy and um uh so so so I started on keys through that church program, started playing aux at the church, and two years into learning keys, I started to fall in love with bass from a distance. I had never touched one. Wow, but I'm watching the our bass player in the band like what he's doing over there looks fun, yeah. Like, I can imagine that would feel good to play, to hold. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, and there's something personal about an instrument that you hold rather than an instrument that you walk up to and just sit at and touch, right? So I was drawn to it, and uh eventually when I finally did get my first bass and start learning, it didn't disappoint. I was like, man, this is exactly what I thought it was gonna feel like, and I love this. Nice. Um, so I went through seasons where I kind of let keys fall by the wayside and just focused on bass, and then I went back to keys. I would go back and forth, but I never fully dropped one over the other, and that was part of the reason why when uh higher education came up, I could have gone as a bass student, but I felt like keys would give me more um more uh like learning theory and being able to visualize things on the keyboard, it would be more universal.

SPEAKER_01

It's the whole music palette versus like a specific range, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

So like if I if I could hone in on keys here, I it'll be easier to translate everything I learned here to base on my own rather than vice versa. The other thing was it was a very traditional program, and although I respected upright, I went that wasn't really no, it wasn't really my thing. I wanted to play groove patterns and play electric only. So um eventually I did go and take a few courses at the collective as well as a bass student.

SPEAKER_01

So dope, dope, dope. You know uh Dimitri. Uh tall bass? Yeah, yeah, yeah. The tall bass. I know of him. We've never been. Yeah, I've I've played with him a few times, man. That dude is ridiculous. He plays the he carries the upright.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I'm I'm a huge Charlie Pooth fan. We've mentioned him before. Like, so I've I've watched them on tour when he was playing with them.

SPEAKER_01

Nah, that dude is ridiculous. I've we we used um we used to do gigs. He used to do gigs with this band called 45 Riots. And, you know, we would see them on the um, because I used to work with the sound with a sound company with them. So, you know, I would see them, you know, him playing like the cocktail hour and all. I mean, he could play everything. Then when I was MD at CCC, I brought him in a few times, and yeah, he ain't disappointed. Joker's amazing. Yeah, yeah. So um, but but you because you brought up the upright. Um, and I'm sure in jazz, you kind of gotta play upright. That's just that's just standard. But um what so out your outcome out of that was what? Like you got your keyboard skills and your theory and stuff. Like, how did that translate into uh your next move when you got out?

SPEAKER_02

Well, I I mean it transformed me. Like I knew how to play, I knew how to read before that, but the the knowledge of of jazz theory and going to that next step really changed my life, like chord structure, like chord voicings, um, you know, harmony, all that. Yeah, um, it was like night and day. So like I would never and I was not one of those guys who had it like that where I had a full scholarship. Right, right, right. So I I'm still I'm still paying my way through. Oh, I but I I don't regret it. I don't regret it because it really did change my life, and I'm really grateful for everything that unlocked here through that.

SPEAKER_01

I I always say, and I've I think I've said on here before, that you can learn and you can get an education on the job too. You know, it's not like you can't get an education or like just with a good mentor. Because a good mentor, yeah, some somewhere along the line, one of your mentors or their mentors study. Somewhere, somebody study. And so what they're giving you is uh organized information because that's the thing. To me, formal training, what it gives you is organized and and well put together information versus you learn you know a couple of chords here, you learn a scale here, or you learn some practice techniques in between. But the formal uh knowledge, I think, is important. And I mean, again, people learn without it. If you if you determine to learn your instrument, you can learn your instrument. What do you what do you say to those who are thinking, like, should I go to school? Should I just go learn, get a good mentor? Because also you gotta find the right mentor. Because that I don't find that there's a lot of mentors out there to be honest these days, but what's your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_02

I would say school is not for everybody. Um, for me, it was. Um, so I'll always stand by it. Like, I don't think I would be the musician I am today without the knowledge that I got there. Um, but it depends, it depends on on what you want to do, it depends on where you are in life, if you have the time, if you have the resources. Uh you can definitely hone in, like you said, and and get with a really good mentor and get the same, get the same benefits out of it.

SPEAKER_01

No, for sure. And these days, people have YouTube, university, you know, where honestly, I don't know that there's anything you can't find on it. Right. But again, it's also like exactly. So you might find something over here, and you like, and that's the other thing. When when you find organized uh education, it's in levels. So it's like, what's your level one versus your level 10? And YouTube, you might find something at level 10 that they're calling one, which which assumes that you knew some things. I always talk about my uh when I went to Mason Gross, my first college, um, it was assumed that you knew how to do so many things that I didn't know how to do. I wasn't good at reading. I wasn't good at and it was assumed because the prime, I mean, I just had to notice these things and say, okay, I see what the problem is here. It's a majority of instrumentalists in the program. Like the the vocal part was so small, and I was there for vocals. So there was an I could see a reasonable assumption.

SPEAKER_02

The arms are the story. I went through some of that too. Uh when I when I got into new school, first of all, I don't know how I got in. I got in. You know how you got in. All I knew was that all I knew was like church music, right? Seventh chords, three note voicings, yeah, things like that, right? But I got in, my reading was horrible, I could get by, but it wasn't it wasn't proficient by any means, right? So that had to grow. But I would be thrown into ensembles at school, and you know, the great Reggie Workman, um, who was at new school faculty, and like I for whatever reason, I was put into his ensemble.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_02

And I remember one of the early days, I'm I'm at the piano, and he's like, he's like, give me a pedal there, give me a pedal there. I don't and I don't know what he's talking about because I'm still like you said, like they assume you know certain terminology, certain things. I'm looking at my feet. Pedal. Do I just play the pedal? Yeah, yeah. But he was very gracious, and and I was in his ensemble multiple times over the course of multiple semesters, and it was it was uh a great experience at the end.

SPEAKER_01

That's cool. I mean, that's how you learn though. I mean, people are afraid to make mistakes, but mistakes is really how you learn. I mean, think about it. If you didn't have formal training, then the mistakes would be your training. You know what I'm saying? But you gotta leave room for that. Um, and it's it's it's good to that you even had that in your story. I mean, again, you got it, you get the humility of it, yeah, which which also allows you to prepare and go learn now. Okay, let me go learn this thing he was talking about. I ain't know what he's talking about. My uh I I talk about my boy, uh, this dude, Brandon McCune. You know Brandon McCune? Keyboard, dope keyboard is that I met at Mason Gross. And he used to always yell, go work on your two fives, go work on your two fives. I ain't know what he's talking about. I used to be like, all right, cool. Um, I don't know what he's talking about. But like later, I understood, like, he was like just saying, like, that's such a simple idea and concept in jazz, gospel, whatever. Two fives. It's like, you know, you're gonna always, almost always play a two, five, one change somewhere. So understanding it, and I was just like, in in hindsight, I'm like, okay, he was just telling me something that he felt like I wasn't strong in at the time. Because I we were playing at the got with for the gospel choir at Rutgers. Now, at this point, I was at uh Mason. Oh, I was at Mason Wheels at Rutgers. But um, but for me, I needed I needed somebody to break it down even more. And so that's why when I left, I went to a school that was primarily singers, choir college, which literally it had like 300, 400 students total. And most of them were either singers, organists, or piano. That's really all the three majors they had besides education. So as far as instrument, most of the instruments were were vocalists, and so it was they were perfect for somebody like me, and I mean, and then I thrived there, like oh okay, this is where I needed to start from. And then reading made sense to me. So um for you, that you feel you do, you feel like um new school kind of gave you some of that navigation when you said you came in shaky.

SPEAKER_02

I I definitely came in shaky, but again, there was something about it that I was like a kid in a candy store. Even from the days before I even applied to the school when the catalog came in, when back in the day when we had catalogs, everything wasn't a line, and I was looking at the course offerings and what it covered, like it lit something in me. I was like, I want to be in that, I want to learn that, I want to learn this, I want to learn that. So, so yeah, I didn't I wasn't the best technically, I wasn't the best reader, uh, I didn't know all the terms. Um but and it was there was uncomfortable moments for sure, but because I I loved it and I was eating it all up and I was absorbing everything, and um it I I I caught up to speed. I caught up to speed, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And then you had to put you had to put some work in. Definitely, definitely. Um, what I remember practice rooms at at college, and like, and it took me a while to really like dial in the focus because it's noise in my in my school, it was just noise, like you hear everybody singing in the next room and stuff like that, and you just gotta lock in regardless. Um, what what was your practice regimen in even like then to now? Like, what's the difference?

SPEAKER_02

Um I back then, I mean everything was structured, so like I definitely had things that I needed to work on on a week-to-week basis, um like that was deliverables for school for glasses stuff like that. So that helped me. Okay, um, and that was what I focused on when I was there, whether it was um getting more acclimated with modes of the melodic minor, yeah. Uh whether it was ear training, and I would literally have to sit there and play one note and be able to sing a third above it, or sing a sing a flat seventh above it, or whatever. And uh so all that takes time uh to develop and and part of the courses were meeting with a private student, private teacher. Yeah, yeah. So just for personal development, so like part of the curriculum was private lessons every week. Yeah, so I I always had stuff to work on, and the structure was was was there for that. Uh as far as what I do now, um I definitely still have to put the time in when I'm prepping uh for upcoming gigs or or whatever. Um but I I'm not able to do the whole like eight hour a day just for my development. I never really was, like I said, because I was already married with a with a young child when I went into school. Oh wow, okay because I when I went Into school was after my first church experience. Gotcha.

SPEAKER_01

Gotcha. Was that kind of what made you want to go to school? Like, okay.

SPEAKER_02

Actually, it overlapped a little bit. It was towards the end when I started, and I had the encouragement of my leaders and pastors there. That's good. Um, but um, my very first church situation ended before I finished schooling. Okay. So I was able to finish it up and then you know, start branching out.

SPEAKER_01

That's good. Yeah. Now tell us about your first church situation. Like, how was that? I mean, I can remember mine. I I mean I have several, so but um, but what was your first like what was that first thing like? Because you said you started in a program. Yeah, I was to go from the program to actually being hired. What was that like? And and how did you develop at that church?

SPEAKER_02

Well, it was I'm the first musician in my family, I didn't come from musical parents. Uh, they are very supportive of me. So when I started falling in love with music, they were like, go for it, yeah, you know. So I always was thankful and appreciative of that. Um when I I was I started lessons at 12. Okay. And at 14, I was invited to play for Sunday services. Ox keys. What a friend of mine uh he came up with this term called secret aux. Tell us what secret aux is. Secret aux is. I had the headphones on and I could hear the mix and hear myself in the mix, but I was not in the house. And that's fine. I was developing and I knew that.

SPEAKER_01

Especially if they use it for development, that's actually dope because it it gets you acclimated to how this the service goes without the full pressure of like, you know, ah, I play the wrong note. Well, nobody heard your wrong note, you know. So it's like, you know, you get to kind of like experiment a little bit, but also you probably have a structure like we need you to play this, and yeah, and you get to figure it out.

SPEAKER_02

And they didn't lie to me about it. I knew what the deal was, and I but I welcomed it and you were in secret aux I knew I was learning.

SPEAKER_01

That's I I didn't never think of that.

SPEAKER_02

That's actually smart. So I did secret aux for a little while and became real aux. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And uh like you know what? Uh play back, we heard what you did, yeah, yeah. And then especially there, because I'm sure they were if I mean I don't know, but I would imagine they were probably recording or at least somebody's listening to hear what you're actually doing.

SPEAKER_02

And then, you know, it grew from there, and and I always was the voracious learner, even in those early days. Uh so it grew. I was playing, I was playing like brass patches, I was playing string patches and organ, uh, an actual b3, learning how to operate a b3, and then main keys eventually.

SPEAKER_01

And now were they still did they still have that that Saturday program all during all this time too?

SPEAKER_02

They it it it did go for a few years and then it fizzled out. I actually think I might be the only problem. The only success story of it. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

That's all right. One one, you know, it was it was worth it. So that's cool, man. So what um so now you transition from there. Well, actually, did you were you would were you MD there too, or you just kind of just graduated to keyboard?

SPEAKER_02

I graduated to like the main keys, and then a couple of years later graduated to bass there as well. Oh wow, okay.

SPEAKER_01

So how did that how'd you transition that?

SPEAKER_02

Well, the I was already playing keys for a couple of years, and that I started that was when I started to fall in love with bass, and was like following. I actually love bass too.

SPEAKER_01

So I it's funny you say that.

SPEAKER_02

So like following our bass players all around, asking them questions, touching their basses, and and our our music director at the time, um, she saw that in me, and she actually bought me my first bass. Oh wow, and little practice amps. She had a nice set here. She had a nice salary, no, I'm just saying. It was like an old used I've been as, but it was my first bass, and uh and you know that grew as as fast as I grew on keys, you know, being self-taught. I was like, oh, I know these notes here. As long as I know what these open notes are, yeah, I can figure out what these notes are by climbing up and counting up, and then so I I was I was my own teacher from from a keyboard player onto bass in the beginning, and uh and eventually I became the main bass player there and held that for a few years.

SPEAKER_01

Wow, yeah, that's cool. So now you talked about a sudden change from that because that was probably like home for you, it was home, and so to make a a transition from that as a father, husband, what was that like?

SPEAKER_02

It wasn't easy because it was unexpected, right? Right. Um, and I never hustled, I never gigged. I I had I had met people and got offered gigs, but never wanted to gig outside the four walls of my church. And uh even after I had started school, I still had that mentality in my first couple of years of schooling. Wow. Um, so when it happened, it was unexpected. Uh and as I said, I was married. We had our first son who was one at the time, and uh we were put in a weird situation where we really had to figure things out and it wasn't easy, but God got us through it, and uh and you know, I I wouldn't be where I am today if that didn't happen, right?

SPEAKER_01

So right, and and it I always talk about, I mean, I hated all of my bad situations that I had to go through, or my breakups, as they will, or you know, just leaving, you know, because a lot of times you didn't you don't want to leave, but God is shaping you in those moments, and that's you know, in hindsight, it's easy to look at and say, okay, God, I see what you're doing. But in the moment, oh my gosh, it's frustrating, it's difficult, it hurts, you know what I'm saying? And so I can I can resonate with that, but again, God is has a bigger plan, and so you know, those things shape who you who you become, yeah. And so um tell us where you are now, what you do now.

SPEAKER_02

So I after that I I bounced around a little bit, okay. So uh I have to tell a little bit of that to explain where I am. So like I did the whole like Sunday thing of finding other churches to play at because that was and that's your first time doing it, yeah. So then I had a season where I was driving all over the place across multiple states to do like three or four different churches in the same day. Wow, yeah, you hustle, hustle. I I started hustling and then I finished school, I got the internship, and I was at Blue Note Records for a while. The internship extended after I graduated, so I was there for about a year and a half, and maybe this could be my job, and you know, became a temp salaried position there. Um and um then I had met uh through at my first church, we had like a revolving door of musicians who came in and out too. So through some of those guys, I had met Ray Chu. Oh wow uh from the Apollo. Back then he was still at the Apollo in Harlem, so um we I was introduced to him, he heard me play, and he he put me on his radar, you know, and and some of those offers were coming in from him when I was still at church, and I was like, no, I can't do it, you know, because I didn't know.

SPEAKER_01

But um now were you were you like was it some religious conviction or something? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, yeah, and and you know, not necessarily everyone has their own convictions, everyone has their own reasons for saying yes or saying no. Uh, I would say it's not right or wrong, it's very individual.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I I felt like when you're young, there's a lot of people who try to say, no, that's that was definitely the Lord don't want to be able to do that. That was definitely happening. It's sin out there, you know. It's sin everywhere, it's sin in here too. You know, but but I I get it though. We're just looking out for you.

SPEAKER_02

I say all that to say, like, after when I was in that stage of my life, after that unexpected closing door, um one guy who reached out to me was Artie Reynolds. Yeah, Artie, yeah, raised bass player.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that's my guy. I played with him for years, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And uh at that time he was getting started playing on his first Broadway show. Oh wow. And he was at the point where he was settled and he's he needed to find a sub so that he can take some time off and do other things, and got you. It was very particular. They needed someone who could play in a pocket and feel good and not sound like a broad typical Broadway musician because this was a show called Hot Feet. Okay, and it was all the music of Earth When a Fire, which is very groove, very yeah. So he needed someone who could play in the pocket, he needed someone who could read, yeah, and someone who could play synth bass. And not many people had all the three.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

So that's dope. My my name came up, and and I ended up becoming his sub on that show. Fire, and the show didn't last, but the music was incredible. I can imagine, and it was a great experience for me too, because I was right in that stage where I was like, What am I what am I gonna do? And and it opened my eyes up to the Broadway world.

SPEAKER_01

That's that's dope.

SPEAKER_02

Um, so I the saxophonist on that show was a saxophonist for an artist named Peterson Cottie. Okay, and he was a jazz-influenced pop rock artist, uh like singer-songwriter. Okay. And and I ended up auditioning and and getting that gig and touring around the world for the first time. And uh and did a few more Broadway things, and then um and then as things really picked up, and I was traveling a lot, playing with lots of people. Um but my little one was three and four years old now at this point. And it was yeah, yeah, I had to go out the door and see tears in his face, and um, so I had to make a change and um decided to close off a whole lot of opportunity musically to put my family first. Yeah. Um, so I came back to figuring out what do I do, and I started going back to find something that was not even in the music field. Wow. And went back to school, took a job, took another career, not even music related. I worked in this career for like 10 years. I went back to playing in church. I found a church that I could play at. Gotcha. And um so you still had an outlet. I still had an outlet, but I was home, yeah, I was there for my family, and I was able to support them with something that was consistent. Gotcha. Um, and that was what we needed. And I I see a lot of musicians out there who are in a similar situation, but make a make a different choice.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, they're trying to hold on to the gig, which the gig is cool, and there's there's layers to or levels to what you can do. Like you said, you you found a church job and then still just got a career so that you could kind of balance things out. So, you know. So some people, like you said, they just go, I'ma just live on the edge.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and then families break up, and it's the saddest thing to see. Yeah. Uh so at this church that we settled at, it became our new home church, and I I became a musician there. And uh the MG who I served under, um, he started to see something in me and started to speak into me that you're more than this. Wow. And I didn't I didn't understand what he was talking about. I was like, no, I'm not like I'm just a musician, right? And that's what I love, and that's all I want to do. Right. Um, but he said, You were built to be a leader, wow. Um, and he started pushing me in in taking on leadership roles, but it was very uncomfortable. Wow, like I never wanted to MD. I enjoyed being under an MD and just playing, you know. None of that pressure, none of that pressure, I didn't want any of it. Yeah, uh, meanwhile, I'm working at this non-music related job, right? And in this other job, it was in the health field. Okay. So I was in a position where I was making decisions at work that affected people's lives.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, so you was already kind of in a well-being, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And medical choices, medications, you know, decisions. And in that job, I I rose up to more and more leadership there. Right. Where they gave me an organizational thing where you choose you choose which nurse get goes to which patient, you choose which staff member takes this task, you choose how the flow of the day goes. Wow. You choose which room gets assigned to what in the in the in the practice, you know. Wow. And I didn't see it then, but I see it now that God was making me into an MD at this job. Yeah, yeah. And um eventually that church is where I'm at now. Gotcha. And that MD left. And we had a a period of a couple of years of interim where they didn't have a replacement. Gotcha. And everyone around me. Did that MD go to Florida? Yeah. Everyone around me, I know what you're talking about. Everyone around me was like, You should do this. You should do this. Right. Um, it's you, it's got you written all over it, but I still didn't see it. And I was like, nah, no, I'm good right here, right? Good right here. And it really wasn't until literally the pastor came up to me and said, I think you should do this. Wow. So I was like, if if if you're asking me to do this, yeah, then you you got the confidence, yeah. That's cool. So that that's where I am now, and and and it's been uh about four years in that position. Amazing. I know congrats, and I love it. Yeah, I actually love it, like not like it was before, like I it definitely fuels me. Yeah, I feel fulfilled by the role and the all the tasks related to the role and and and everything.

SPEAKER_01

So that's amazing, man. I'm I'm happy for you. I remember you reached out once with a question, an MD question.

SPEAKER_02

I I I love that because I I I was like, I need to find out how things happen everywhere else. Like we should be networking, we should be sharing this information.

SPEAKER_01

When I when I became MD at uh at CCC, I wanted to like I I I knew a few people. Like I knew my boy Charles over there at First Baptist, I knew Clarence at um at Abundant, um, Lauren was at Agape. And I and I I had a vision before I moved to this house. I said, when I move here, I want to connect with all of these guys. But I it never happened. But like I mean, I I I got to connect with Charles and I talked to Clarence like a few times, but like I always thought like there should be a network of musical directors. Like, just I mean, even if it's not to give uh ideas away, but sometimes just to just to network, like it's a different position, like it's not what everybody thinks it is, right? You know, it's it there's there's a loneliness to it sometimes, you know what I'm saying? Like, and not because you don't have your crew around you, but you have to make decisions on their behalf all the time, and they can look at you one of two ways sometimes in that, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02

And and and it isolates you a little bit from you know the the tricky thing is um I was a musician there for about 13 years before I became MD. Okay. So I was one of the guys, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And then I became the MD, and and it's it's a tightrope. You know, it's like I still love all these guys, and we still hang and talk on a certain level, and then on another level, you know, um, I'm telling them what my expectation is.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, you gotta hold them accountable. That's and that's the hard part, man. I mean, like having to hold somebody accountable that you respect and you you love, actually, is hard, man. And and some some relationships get messed up over it. Not because you're trying to, but you just like this is the expectation here, you know, and you're not meeting it. And again, in other places, it's probably just like whatever, you know what I'm saying? In less organized places, I should say. But when you're at a corporate situation on a church level, it's you it had it has to be, you know, it has to make sense. And so, you know, and I I remember having a conversation with someone, and I was just like, bro, like this what I'm asking you for is no different than what somebody's gonna ask you for on a bigger gig. You know what I'm saying? Like, but I'm sitting here trying to plead with you to make this decision that I want you to make, but you know, you're just like maybe you're a little bit immature, and you're just like, nah, I don't want to hear that. And it's like, I get it, but yeah, because I've been in material. And we all went through that. We all went through that. I talk about how I used to be late. I had it like a 6 a.m. service once, and I was late every Sunday. And I was like, yeah, one of these days they're just gonna not pay me. But the the pastor was so uh like just nice and just like, man, I just appreciate you coming. I want you to get here on time and not miss the most of the service, but I appreciate you so much. I'm not gonna like hold it against you. And I I appreciate that. Like at that time I needed it, but I probably needed to get fired for it, you know what I'm saying? To be honest. But yeah, yeah. Um, what was what was one of your most challenging experiences in your journey?

SPEAKER_02

Um wow, I gotta think. Definitely those those wilderness years were not easy. And when the decision had to be made to do something that was not even closely remotely related to my gifting and passions at the time, yeah, yeah, that was the most challenging. Um, I knew that I was doing the right thing for the right reasons, right? That's what kept me going. And um at the end of the day, you know, it was all part of his plan to try transform me into what I needed to be.

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely, absolutely. That's great, man. I mean, so what what advice would you so you you you've been through this journey starting from being a uh curious musician and enrolling in a program that allowed you to develop into a silent arcs player and then a main keyboard player and all of the things? I mean, it's an amazing journey. What uh if you had to let some other student or somebody that's interested in music, uh know, like what are a couple of things you can give them, whether it's advice on how to approach it, advice on how to practice, advice on who to go find, what advice would you offer somebody like that?

SPEAKER_02

Uh I would say, and I know it's a subject that that you've talked about before, this idea of resilience. Oh, yeah. Um it's so important to not give up, it's so important to experience setbacks, yeah, and having the appropriate response to it and not giving up. It's so important to approach something and not have the idea that I know it all and I'm gonna get this in the first five minutes. And then when it doesn't happen, you know, not to give up, but to realize, oh, this is gonna take some time, but I'm gonna do it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I'm sure you've had moments like that. I know I have. Um man, I I've hit the wall on different things, and and in hindsight, again, it's like, okay, I needed to learn that. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02

Like I remember when I was asked to sub for Artie on Hot Feet. It was the best possible situation because he gave me the book and he gave me a recording to listen along with and play along with as I read the sheets. He also gave me time. I had like two months before I was called into my first show.

SPEAKER_01

And it don't happen like that. No, don't happen like that. Like, yeah, here's the book. See you tomorrow.

SPEAKER_02

Yes. So I shed that thing. I had a regimen. I would get home and I would literally spend however much time it took for me to get from the top of the show to the end of the show at least twice each night. And at first it would be like a six hour session. Wow. And then it would over the weeks I was able to do it without stopping.

SPEAKER_01

Gotcha. That's cool, man.

SPEAKER_02

When this transitions happened from here to here, you know, and and just page turns, timing your page turn with what you're playing and everything. It's a whole lot that goes into that. Yeah. Um but before that, I have another story. Oh, yeah. Go ahead, go ahead. Uh one of my favorite artists ever growing up from a very young age has always been Fred Hammond.

SPEAKER_01

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And I used to follow them everywhere whenever they would come to town, watch them play live.

SPEAKER_01

And he happens to be a bass player.

SPEAKER_02

Yes, exactly. Exactly. Um, I knew all the I knew who the musicians were. I followed, I followed them. Like we didn't have like internet and social media back then as much as we did, but we did have covers, you had to watch the videos.

SPEAKER_01

Yep.

SPEAKER_02

I had friends who were in other churches and other parts of the US who uh who would get me videotapes. So he came and he did and he did a concert at my church here, you know, watch the video, you know, listening to their new arrangements. And um, and so I became a fan of Terrence Palmer, who uh eventually I met and we became close friends. Dope. Um, but Terrence was his bass player at the time, and um and then at a certain point uh Terrence wasn't in the band anymore, and uh Justin played for him. Okay, but no, not Justin, Justin was with Israel, it was Maurice Fitzgerald. Okay, gotcha. So Maurice Fitzgerald was the bass player who played with him, but there was a little interim season of like two or three years, gotcha, I I believe, before uh Maurice started playing with him. And Fred would come out to the to the Brooklyn Summer Concert Series at Wingate Park and um one summer, and this was during the time where I was still at my first church. Okay, I didn't know anything outside those four walls, I didn't hustle yet, but I knew what I liked and what I wanted, right? Yeah as far as the type of music I wanted to play and had aspirations, right? So I had my base with me and I went to Wingate Park. Oh, nice, and uh I had a friend who lived next door, so we met up out there, and we were the the the crew was there setting up, and you know you looked like you're supposed to be there. Exactly. I looked like I was supposed to be there, right? You know, so the crew was rigging the the speakers, and I I love that too, just the whole watching how everything gets done, and so so they let us walk in. We hung out backstage and we sat in like folding chairs while everything was getting set up. People started arriving. I started recognizing Fred's crew, right? And I see them taking their place on the stage, getting ready for sound check. I see the drummer, more of a McQuidie. I see like their keys players, their guitar player, and and the OG Mohorns guys take their place up there, but I didn't see a bass player come up there, right? So I and I didn't know Terrence wasn't playing with him anymore at this point. I think Terrence had gone on to play with Israel, okay. But uh but they didn't have a bass player, and they started running a sound check, and then one of the Mohorns guys spotted me back there, and he goes, Is that a bass? The classic story, classic story. Is that a bass? I'm like, Yeah, I'm a bass player. He's like, come up here. Wow, what do you think I did? I know you just great. I chickened out, man. Did you? I chickened out. Oh man, I mean, I I can understand why, but still, I listen, I was musically ready. I knew I was excited, I loved it, I knew, but what I was not ready for was what happened when I was put on the spot.

SPEAKER_01

Gotcha, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I was like, oh which is a whole different preparation, honestly.

SPEAKER_02

Exactly. And I didn't know how to prep for that, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I didn't know that back then that that's what it was. I learned that later. Yeah. But I something happened in me where I froze. Yeah. And and I was like, no, no, no, you know, you guys got this. I'm good. I'm just hanging, you know, the whatever, whatever it is you say to get out of the situation, right? But it ended up looking back, I it ended up being one of my biggest regrets in life, and one of the things that I learned the most from. Yeah. Because uh they did that show with no bass player. Wow, one of their keys guys had had the player like synthema. Wow.

SPEAKER_01

So that's how they were prepped for that show. Wow. Um, and I mean they could have still did that and still just had some bass underneath, you know. If you just you ain't even have to be perfect on it. But wow. I mean, I couldn't. Secret based, huh? Secret base, exactly. It could have been secret based.

SPEAKER_02

No, but I often look back and and and wonder like what could have what could have been the trajectory. Exactly. Yeah, right. Absolutely. So the thing that I did learn from that was when I feel this feeling again of being scared to do something that I'm not comfortable in doing, do the opposite.

SPEAKER_01

Wow.

SPEAKER_02

Right?

SPEAKER_01

Wow. So because I think you were probably afraid of failing, afraid of making a mistake, which yeah, people make mistakes all the time. Yeah, you know what I mean? So it's crazy.

SPEAKER_02

There was so that brought me back to hot feet with Artie. Wow. I was like, yeah, I'm gonna do this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um something you might not be comfortable with, but wow, yeah. And then even to where I am today, um, over the course of the pandemic when everything shut down, uh, God gave me a new love. Wow. I started falling in love with with film scoring.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And um, I had all this time on my hands, yeah. Gigs weren't happening, churches weren't happening, and I and I went back to school, self-taught. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And fell in love with learning how to make orchestral mock-ups, nice, like binge watching interviews with like how did you get here? What was your story? Like, what movies have you done, and looking at catalogs, and and it's something that I really aspire to do, and and I actually have one IMDB credit under my name. So I'm very happy about that. The first one and not the last one. But absolutely. Uh, that's really what's next for me.

SPEAKER_01

That's cool, man. That's great. I mean, that's that's it's I I mean, I see I see a lot of musicians evolving that way. Uh, a good friend of mine did a Netflix thing during the pandemic, uh, composition uh for a film, and you know, we talk all the time about stuff like that. Um, I'm working on my own catalog of music for TV and movies new. So I definitely understand that. And, you know, um orchestral composition is something that for me takes a a little while because there's a there's a science to it, you know, and an art to it. But um, but just song, songwriting, same thing, like you know, just whatever it is. I I feel like that's as content becomes bigger, that becomes more of a valuable thing to have as a musician, especially with all of these different ways of mimicking musicians they have now. I mean, it's crazy now in terms of what they're able to produce, and that coupled with the audience is really kind of like I would say what would be a best way to say it, they're in my opinion, the quality is not as important to the audience as just the quantity. Like, so you know, you have millions, maybe even more songs available now. So people are just like, whatever, it's whereas like you know, when people go and buy an album, a record, it's because they want a certain quality, or you got high-fi, high-def uh sound system, that's because you want to have a certain quality. But other people like MP3 is cool, you know what I mean? And so, so, and that's majority of people, yeah, it's like an MP3 sounds fine, but those of us who know is like, nah, there's a there's higher quality than that. So I think with where things are going from a musician standpoint, from my own perspective, um scoring is just a thing that has always been legit and it's and it always will be. Yeah, whereas if you create in music, you write in music, there's fads to that, and the music industry is so bad now, anyway. So, but yeah, I I like it. And I'm glad to hear that. And I did get to hear one of your pieces. I think you you you uh had something on when you did your first composition, your first uh your first orchestral uh composition. I remember when you when you posted about it.

SPEAKER_02

I uh there's stuff online. I I try to post as as much of what I create as possible.

SPEAKER_01

Now, how often are you on that? Like, are you doing that regularly? I need to get back on it. I got you, gotcha, gotcha. So you had more time than that.

SPEAKER_02

I had more time, definitely pre-MD days, but yeah. That's all right. Listen, you get back to it. All right, yeah, you it's a love, it's a passion, and I definitely wanna, you know, in a in a perfect world, that would be my full-time thing.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, gotcha, gotcha. Yeah, well, you got a good full time now, so yeah, I'm happy. You'll you'll find time, yeah. Man, listen, it was a pleasure having you here. I'm so glad you came. And um where can they see you? Do you want people to come see you at your uh at your church?

SPEAKER_02

So I'm I'm blessed to be music director for Christchurch, and the website is Christchurch USA. Nice. Um, how many locations y'all have? We have we have three locations in Jersey. So I'm I I manage three different teams simultaneously on Sundays, and we also stream every Sunday, and uh it's it's a great church, great people, great atmosphere.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, you know my mom my mom was a psalmist at that church, yeah, when they were Tabernacle of Love. Tabernacle of Love. Yeah, I remember we used they used to have services in the um holiday inn on Route 22.

SPEAKER_02

Those are before my day, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Those are those are way back in the day. But it was, I mean, listen, it's it's great to see they're about to celebrate 40 years.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I was there some 40 years ago, probably as a kid, and they used to have nice kids, you uh youth church. So uh I remember being in youth church with his daughter, his daughters. But yeah, I mean, amazing people. Um, so it was great to have a historical reference to them and see where they are now. But listen, man, it's a pleasure having you here. I appreciate you, man. Thanks so much, bro. God bless you and continue to bless everything you're doing. Can't wait to see more IMDB uh credits with your name on it. And again, this is the Musician Share Podcast. Um, check out my boy Pete um at his church, Christchurch. Which, which are you at specific location?

SPEAKER_02

Like no, I I try to I try to you just go through. That's cool. I because I create the schedule too. That's cool. So I'm I'm one Sunday I'm here, one Sunday I'm there, and just make it. Yeah, one of their one of their um slogans is uniting people to God and people to people. Another one is one church, multiple locations. Nice, nice. So we try to really foster the atmosphere of we're one church, we're not three different churches.

SPEAKER_01

That's cool, man. So you don't have one you like better than the other. All right, thank you, man.

SPEAKER_00

Thanks for listening. To stay up to date between episodes, follow us on Facebook, TikTok, and Instagram, and make sure you're subscribed to our YouTube channel. If you liked what you've heard today, or if there's something specific you want us to dive into next, leave us a comment.