The Musician's Shed Podcast
Real talk. Real musicians. Real growth.
Making great music is only part of the journey. This podcast exists to help musicians grow beyond the notes—through honest conversations with working professionals and expert advice from across the industry.
Each episode breaks down what it really takes to succeed: mindset, preparation, business, creativity, and resilience. You’ll hear stories, lessons, and strategies from musicians who’ve walked the path and learned what works—and what doesn’t.
If you’re ready to elevate your craft, strengthen your professionalism, and build a career with intention, this podcast was made for you.
The Musician's Shed Podcast
THE MUSICIAN'S SHED PODCAST: AARON "Mr. Lab" MONROE (Full interview)
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In this episode, Samar Newsome sits down with the man who turns every track into a masterclass: Aaron Monroe, better known as Mr. Lab.
Aaron’s journey is a testament to what happens when raw talent meets relentless curiosity. From the high-energy drum throne of the church to the cutting edge of global Afro-pop and the inner circle of icons like Missy Elliott, Aaron breaks down the "Lab results" of a career built on versatility.
In the Shed Today:
- The Foundation: Aaron discusses his early introduction to music as a church drummer and how the "gospel shed" prepared him for the world’s biggest stages.
- The Afro-pop Shift: How he mastered the rhythms of one of the world's fastest-growing genres and what it takes to produce authentic, global sounds.
- Working with the Queen: Aaron gives us a rare look behind the scenes of working with the legendary Missy Elliott. What does a pioneer like Missy expect when she steps into the studio?
- The "Mr. Lab" Philosophy: Why Aaron treats every session like a scientific experiment and how he continues to reinvent his sound.
Key Takeaways:
- Drummer to Producer: Why understanding rhythm is the ultimate "cheat code" for music production.
- Cultural Fluency: The importance of studying different genres (like Afro-pop) to remain indispensable in a global market.
- The Missy Standard: Lessons learned from working with a legend about work ethic, creativity, and staying ahead of the curve.
"The church gave me the feel, but the lab gave me the formula. You have to be a student of the sound before you can be a master of the hit." — Aaron Monroe (Mr. Lab)
🔗 Connect with Aaron Monroe:
- Instagram: @theonlymrlab
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The Musician's Shed Podcast!
Hey, this is Samar Newsom, and this is the Musician Shed Podcast. I got a very, very, very close brother to me uh with me today. I'm very excited about having him here, Mr. Aaron Mr. Lab Monroe. What's good, Aaron?
SPEAKER_01What's good, bro? How you, man? Man, I can't complain, brother. I'm like proud of you, bro, for even, you know, doing this podcast. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, man, you know. It's been overdue. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02No, for real. You know, we try to share some, share some of our experiences stuff like that. So you know, I definitely am happy to have people up here, you know, who one I've worked with, or even if I haven't worked with, but most of people that I've already kind of had have been people I work with, uh, that I greatly respect and got to see their journey and know that in sharing their journey, there's something that people can get from it. You know what I'm saying? And that's really what it's about. It's about like have leaving the legacy, man. Like 50 years from now, this will still be on YouTube, probably, or whatever the new YouTube is. Yeah. And somebody will be able to get some information that'll hopefully, you know, help them navigate their career. So let's talk, man. Um, you're a very talented brother. You got a lot of talents, man. So first, let's talk about like how'd you get your start? You actually were uh uh a son of two musicians, right? Your mother's a singer, your dad's a musician. So tell us about your start and how you got into music and what you're doing these days.
SPEAKER_01Well, you know, as well, if you guys don't know, um I'm a PK, so uh just born in that environment, you know, born in that situation, coming up as a musician, very young age, uh started playing drums at my father's church. Um at the time, you didn't have a church, so um we was uh having church at uh this church in Irvington, I believe, a North called Faith Christian Center. Do you know Faith Christian Center?
SPEAKER_02I've heard of it, yeah. Um Pastor Um Is that on Clinton Avenue or no?
SPEAKER_01Is it on Clinton Avenue?
SPEAKER_02I feel like I've seen that sign before on Clinton Avenue. I think that was a bigger building.
SPEAKER_01I think it's on I think it's on Clinton. It's been so long. Um and excuse me for not remembering the pastor. Oh, uh Pastor Mar, I can't remember the name, sorry. Um but I started started out playing drums um there at the age of I would say nine or ten, bro. Um and not even drums, bongos. Let me just bring it. Yeah, so so so watch this. Um at that time, when I was playing bongos, uh Cedric Marsh was playing, he was playing drums for for my father and was playing drums with Butch. You know, Bush was playing keyboard at the time, and another guy named Handy. So every Sunday, boy, you know, when offering hit, it's like, yo, can I get my time to play? Can I can I get my time to shine, you know? And um at times they'll let me come through and play like a song for, you know, um, praise and worship or offering. And and that's how I started, bro. Um, and just going to the rehearsals, just being around as a kid. Yeah, that was like that was like my boys and girls club. Wow. You know what I'm saying? After school, I was excited to go. You know how some people or some kids after school, they just want to stay around, hang out with their friends. Right. My situation was like, yo, I'm ready to leave school so I can make it to rehearsal on time, knowing that I'm not even there to really play, but just by hearing and just being in that environment, that was like fun to me. Right. You know what I mean? So that was really my start, bro, to be honest with you. Right right up in that church.
SPEAKER_02I mean, a lot, a lot of a lot of us uh started out with church, you know what I'm saying? Like with our parents or you know, in whatever situation God allowed us to be in. Um, your dad had like a a prison ministry or something like that. Were you a part of that too?
SPEAKER_01Low-key, I was, man, because you know what? Uh as a kid, um they like some of the prison systems, they even allow me to pull up and play with the choir. And I was young. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I would say 11 to 12 years old, dude. Wow. Um, like Records Island was one spot I'll never forget about, bro.
SPEAKER_02So y'all went to different prisons because I different ones. I had always heard of your father's ministry, Chosen Generation. I heard all the time.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we went to different ones, bro. But I remember that one in particular. Records. Because it was the craziest one, bro. Wow. Had to cross like a bridge to get to the island to get to the actual prison. It was it was like an all-day trip. Wow, yeah, bro. So so that was um a different experience. But I, you know, to to see that at a young age was like a blessing at the same time, bro.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, how how did they receive y'all?
SPEAKER_01Oh man, they was loving it, bro. Yeah, and you know, a young, young guy playing drums, that would that kind of just got them real excited.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, because I think also you you think, I mean, I would imagine, especially in a place like that, you could you could probably get used to seeing young people just kind of making a lot of mistakes and not a lot on the right path. So now seeing young people that are kind of like yourself at that time probably was encouraging a little bit, like, okay, so not everybody's gonna end up in here. Yeah, because sometimes the reality feels like everybody's gonna end up there.
SPEAKER_03But yeah, yeah, yeah. I I think I think so.
SPEAKER_01So that kind of um that kind of made me feel some type of way in the positive. That's good. You know what I mean? Even at a as a young kid, it made me feel good, like wow. Um, we can bring something that's amazing. We can bring some type of positive energy, you know, maybe that's gonna change their life. You never know. And there's been a couple of people that when they got finished, when they did their time, when they got done, they went to my father's church and became members. Wow. So that was like, wow, that's that's super dope. That's some impact right there.
SPEAKER_02So now you I when I met you, you were a drummer. I think we did a recording for your mom once um for one of her records. And and then also at the time, she introduced you as her son that's a drummer, but also a producer. Because I think you produced on her album too. So, what how did you get into production and then like what were what are some things you were able to kind of develop into as a producer and a drummer?
SPEAKER_01So crazy, bro, because you know, my father really played both both of my parents, but my father really played a big part as far as who I am as a musician to today, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, so so he bought me my first keyboard, which was the Phantom S, which we have at the church. That's like the first one that came out, right? And it has a workstation, so you can sequence, you can program, customize your drums or whatever you want to do. Right. So when I had got that for Christmas, dude, like I just never went back. And every day after school, bro, keyboard, making beats, making beats. So one day, um, my mother, she came downstairs and I was just making something, and she was like, Yo, um, I like the way that sound. Let's let's see if I can put something together. So that's that's how we created uh thank you.
SPEAKER_02Okay, gotcha.
SPEAKER_01You know what I'm saying? That's like one of my favorite joints that that she did so far. So so we created that joint and a couple other, but I really came up with the idea, you know what I mean? Um cuz because in case you guys don't know, there's a difference between beat making and like producing. Absolutely. So at that time, I was just beat making coming up with the skeleton part, right? And then we had the musicians to kind of like build it up in the studio, right? Right, right. And then I weighed some parts on on drums as well. Um at the studio, but I can't remember the name of the studio.
SPEAKER_02Um you brought you brought up something very important. I think we can pause and kind of elaborate a little bit. Beat making versus producer. Like, I think people don't understand the difference. Can you elaborate a little bit? Tell us about what's from your uh perspective, what's the difference between being a beat maker and being a producer?
SPEAKER_01Well, you know how when people um, for example, like Kanye West or like a Swiss Beast, they'll they'll do an interview and they will say, Yeah, I can knock out like 10, 20 beats a day. So that's not really producing a whole entire song. Excuse me. That's just coming up with the skeleton so that you can prepare yourself to add singers, different writers, you know, different musicians to complete the actual record. So I I could sit down in the studio all day and make 50 beats like this, you know what I mean? So that's so that's the difference. Be making it is just sequencing your skeleton, and then once you find that, then you start to produce the record. You know, how many writers do I need for this joint? You know, do I need a drummer? Um, do I need a rapper? Um, like for example, DJ Khaled, um, P. Diddy, people always say, Oh, these guys are not producers because they're not touching nothing. Nah, they producers because they know how to make a song, right? They know how to make hit records.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_01They can take a an a cappella from from a whole different song, flip it, and put it in a new record. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? That's that's what you call producing. Right. Quincy Jones.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, oh Quincy the best.
SPEAKER_01Don't know how played nothing, not one instrument.
SPEAKER_02No, he could play, he could play trumpet. He played trumpet. Oh, he played trumpet, yeah. And but he but he he became more of an arranger and composer. But he but he was a trumpeter. So he just played trumpet. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, that's dope. Yeah, which which again, I think honestly, I think that him, his mastery was in understanding how all the pieces come together. And that's to me what's producing. That's producing is is understanding because I think, and I just explained this to some of my students this week. I said, you know, a beat maker, like you said, can create and just make a million beats. You know what I'm saying? Literally, because because there's no there's not as far of a vision that you have to have for it. It's really just putting things together, it sounds good together. These pieces fit good together, but then there's more pieces to a song. A song and a hit record at that has way more pieces than just a beat. A beat is just a piece of it. But being able to, and you're talking about coming from Quincy's time, a time when you you your sequencer was the drummer playing the entire song down, and the bass player playing the entire song down, right? And the guitarist locking in. And so when you had to have musicians lock in, that's different than you playing a sequence that you have four bars and it's looping for three minutes. So, so a different discipline, a different work that it took to do it. And so, um, you know, Quincy, one of the best, man. And and even you fast forward to a Dr. Dre, even Dre, you can kind of see from his uh uh work, uh his body of work, that he was not just instrumental in the beat, he was instrumental in the song creation. That's what song, you know, and in the film they depict that he was showing easy e how to rap. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? Like how to rhyme and how to ride the beat. All of those things as a producer to be able to like see the ending, like to really understand how it should finish. And so I think, like you said, that's that's really the the discipline.
SPEAKER_01So uh and beat making is don't get me wrong, guys. Like beat making is is it's skills, it's it's so much fun, like it's it's so much fun. But producing and is it's more of on uh to me, I think on the business side of things, you know what I mean? Because when you got labels coming coming to you knocking on your door, like yo, we need a hit, yeah. All right, let's let's have it.
SPEAKER_02They're not necessarily going to beat makers, right? Right. Going to producers, right? Honestly. I mean, you know, Kanye, one of the most prolific uh producers in his day because he still was able to produce his own music. You know what I mean? He had a vision for his own music, and I'm sure for some of the artists that he worked with, but initially he was a beatmaker. Initially, you know, when he was when he was getting his chops, he was building as a beatmaker. Yeah. He was building like I'm gonna do 10 beats a day, you know, and all that stuff. And that that's that's the skill. But now you map the skill to to vision and map the skill to being able to see a picture, to paint a picture, you know, and that's real production is to be able to see and paint a picture. Um, yeah, you got to work with some of my friends that I was working with at one time, um, Soul Diggers. I remember when they first met at Soul Digger, like when Kay and uh Bless first met. Um, because I was working with Bless prior to that, and so I actually Bless showed me how to use the MPC 3000. So you was around that time as well, even before and the NPC, I I like that just opened up the world of production to me. Wow. You know what I'm saying? Just understanding how it worked, and I was coming in as a keyboardist, just really, you know, put playing keyboards.
SPEAKER_01Just playing on different records, yeah.
SPEAKER_02But learning, like, okay, I want to learn that too. And so, you know, by the time I did learn it, I was like, okay, I'll go into college. I was like, I'm buying me an NPC 2000. That was your first job. I bought the 2000. And from there, you know, I just mastered NPC. Like, you know, and to me, again, it it's a certain standard for production. Like, people, people make beats now. A lot of people make beats with loops. And even when I start my students out, just because it's accessible, I start them with like something with loops, like a rocket band or something. But the thing is, is that I learned, first of all, I was a drummer. I was a I was a a drummer in church too. I think I remember you telling me. So being a drummer in church, you you get an idea of what rhythm is and what staying on the beat in the pocket and all of that. And so those things translate into production in terms of just hearing how feels go and how to build up and stuff like that. So, um, but like when I got introduced to the NPC boy, I was like, okay, this is all I need.
SPEAKER_01How long you was with Soul Diggers, bro?
SPEAKER_02So I started with Bless like my sophomore year of high school. And by the time I was going to college, it was like three years. By the time I was going to college, they were moving into a different place and like really, really try kind of blowing up. And that was the time when I really was like, ah, I want to stay home and do this, but I was like, I gotta go to school. So I kind of be honest, I missed out on some opportunities going to school. But I mean, you know, everything happens the way it's supposed to.
SPEAKER_01It's funny that you say that, bro, because I was in the same situation, man. Um, I don't tell a lot of people this, but I was gonna go to um what's the black college? Um which one? How did yes, I auditioned that I auditioned there, bro. Drumline. And got accepted, bro. But for some reason, I did not want to go. Wow. I wanted to stay. Wow. Well, number one, I don't like to, you know, roommate. That was that was the one thing. I'm so bougie, y'all. But and and number two, um, when that opportunity came, I was like, bro, I gotta, I gotta take it. Yeah. So I just went that route. The the production route. And I'm I'm happy that I went that route. You know, it really worked out for me, bro. So yeah, and I just and I just went to um I was at Essex County. Right, right, right. So I was still in school. Still got the gossip. Yeah, but I just did county, stay with pops, you know.
SPEAKER_02You was around. I was around, bro. Yeah, yeah. So so you ended up working with Soul Diggers, and I know through that relationship, at some point, they actually got a relationship with Missy Elliott. And so you were around for that. And then you tell tell us about like your working with Missy.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but listen before we even get into Missy Elliott.
SPEAKER_02Well, you can go, you can go, you can go through your story.
SPEAKER_01Listen, we gotta talk about how I even got to Soul Diggers. Okay, and and it's it's amazing because um if it wasn't for the church, bro, yeah, like just me connecting with different people in the church, and um, you know, everybody was coming through, chosen, coming, coming in and out, and the guy named uh, because I gotta give him his flowers, man. If it wasn't for him, um do you know Omar Benders?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I know Omar Benders.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so so if it wasn't for Omar Benders, bro, um, because he knew that I was doing a lot of production first starting, and and one day he was like, yo, let me hear your stuff. So I played him, I had like a lot of records, man. I had a lot of just beats, just ready on a CD. And he was like, Man, I know these guys and in uh um orange, they call Soul Digs. They got a spot in Orange. And I was like, Word. And I was like, yo, I would love to just come around and just you know, just connect and network. So he said, Yo, I'm gonna lock you win. And I went there, bro. Went there. I was the youngest one in there. Yeah, everybody got fitted on, um, hoodies, white T. I'm coming in with like a suit jacket on with some shoes. Is church ready? Looking at me crazy, like what's the boy doing here? Like Ryan Leslie, right? Um, and and I'll never forget about it, man. It was a couple of dudes in there. K Mac was there, and and Sean Blessed obviously um got me there and uh start playing joints, and everybody was just like really um filling the vibes of what I brought to the table. So ever since then I just locked in. And that's how I got a chance to meet with Missy, and that's when it started to branch out. Right, right, right. Yeah, that's when it started to branch out, bro.
SPEAKER_02That's fire. Um again, shout out to those guys. I love those guys. Again, that's that's where I started. So I started on Laventhal. That's that was where his uh where his mom used to live. Okay, we and the studio was in the basement. But wow, um what so so now you fast forward. Fast forward. So how what was it like? So Missy Elliott, known for first of all, amazing eclectic music, like one of one of one, producer, uh, rapper, singer, all of the things. Everything. Um what what was that experience like? And then now, of course, you're now you're working with somebody who came from another big lineage, Devontae swing, who was like the camp she came out of. So yeah, what what was it like to to work with somebody who because I know her work ethic is ridiculous.
SPEAKER_01So, first of all, I didn't even know who Devontae was at the time. Wow. So so that was already a uh a kick in the head. They calling me like, boy, what are you doing here? Right, you know what I'm saying? So I didn't know anything about um Devontae Jodice, because I was still heavily in the church scene, not as much in the RB90s, you know. So um definitely like artist development as far as being with her, yeah, and that was cool. So obviously, once again, soul diggers have a uh a great relationship with Missy. Yeah, so from time to time they would go to the house, they would go to her house. Yeah, she got like a million houses, right? So she got one, she got she got one in Kenelong. Yeah, I'm not gonna say too much. She got one in in Jersey. You can bleep that out. Yeah. Um, so so one day, Sean Bless, and I thought he was lying, bro. Honestly, he was like, bro, you want to come up to uh Missy Spot of Work? And I was like, Yeah, bro, you know, it's cool. Because the first time he asked me, we didn't go.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_01So when he asked me again, I was like, uh, you're probably gonna cancel. Right. And um met up with Sean Blessed. We got in his car and we never forget about it, bro. Go in the crib. Hey, miss, this is D-Boy. They used to call me D-Boy before Mr. Lab, right? So this D Boy, she just eating cereal. I never forget about it. Hey D Boy. And that was it, just kept it. And I was never the type of person okay.
SPEAKER_02You I'm gonna tell you a story about another producer eating cereal.
SPEAKER_01And I was I was never the type of person that was kind of starstruck by um celebrities. I just never So I just waved like I knew her, like hey miss. Hey. And then we went to the basement, just started working. Right. But go go ahead, bro.
SPEAKER_02It's funny when you I it just reminded me of a story, just real quick. But um, when I was in high school, um, my best friend's mom worked with celebrities, I'll be sure a bunch of other people. And so one day we went to the studio and we and it was with Vince and Herbert.
SPEAKER_03Oh, Vince and Herbert.
SPEAKER_02And Vince wasn't Vince was a big producer at the time, but he wasn't like a big celebrity where everybody knows who he was. But we in the studio and he's in there playing video games, eating cereal. Just like regular.
SPEAKER_01I'm like, yo, this is regular. But that's that's how that's what it is. I realized that these are regular people, right?
SPEAKER_02It's crazy. You know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_01These are regular people, yo. Yeah. Like one time, um, you know, I came up to the house, she told me to come come through. So, so as I get to the house, the door is open. So I thought she left the door open for me. So I'm knocking on the door, like, Miss, miss, you know, it's big, big house, miss, miss, miss, before I even go in. So I'm like, okay, well, I guess I can go inside. So I go inside. I'm like, Miss, where are you? Where are you? And then I go to the basement and I'm just sitting waiting. I'm like, I'm texting her, I'm calling her, she's not nothing. And then all I hear is cops, like somebody there, somebody there, somebody there, somebody there. Wow. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, I'm here for miss, I'm here for miss. And when she finally heard me, she was like, Oh, I was I was hiding in the um in in in the uh in a safe room or something. Yeah, in the closet. I didn't know who that was, yeah, man. So that was uh that was a crazy uh definitely a crazy experience, bro. But wow, but but got love for her, man. Um learned so much, bro. Like she was the core of who I am today as a producer, yeah. You know what I'm saying? To the point where I can just walk in any room, any studio with just a pencil and and and and cup in a cup, and I'm good. Like it's lock in. I don't need no equipment, right?
SPEAKER_02Right, right.
SPEAKER_01Like that's how it was sometimes. It's like we don't gotta have the best, like um uh Need You Bad by Jasmine Sullivan. She recorded those, those, that whole album at that crib. Wow, and they didn't even have a mic stand. She had to hold a mic. That's how she recorded that actual record, need you back, bro. Wow. Yeah, so when when I heard that, I'm like, yo, it's all about the energy and the vibes. Yeah, more than anything. Who cares about the stands? Who cares about a million dollar mic? Yeah, no, use a dollar, use a dollar mic, you can still make it.
SPEAKER_02You got the vibe and you and you and you can set it up right now. Still make it happen. That's that's if you if you into excellence, then it's you know, that that protrudes the equipment. You know what I'm saying? It goes past the equipment. So you definitely understand. What what do you think is your best lesson you learned working with? Bless or or Missy or whoever.
SPEAKER_01Like, like I just said, bro, it you don't have to have the best equipment in order to make to make a hit. That always stuck in my head, bro. You know, it it doesn't really matter. If you know what you're doing, then something good is gonna come out of it. Yeah, for sure that's that's like always been a part of my that's why for a long time, bro, I've never really got into buying hardware and and keyboards and synthesizers because in my mind I'm like, I don't really need that. Yeah, all I need is just a computer for me to just get things done. Yeah, you know, I just started um venturing out to buying synthesizers just to keep me keep me going, keep keep it more exciting, keep keep uh inspiring you too.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01The sounds will inspire you, and just creating two different studios, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, um, so but man, nah, I was straight at just like keep it simple.
SPEAKER_02What was one of your like worst situations you ever been in, or like craziest situation you had to deal with in in your career?
SPEAKER_01I don't bro, I'm gonna be honest with you, bro. I don't think I got one, bro.
SPEAKER_02You just keep it like it ain't nothing crazy like that.
SPEAKER_01Cause I'm so chill on top of that. So nothing don't really bother me, man. I'm just I just want to be a sponge, you know what I'm saying, and and learn and and whatever the case may be, um, whatever the situation is, um I'm just here to to work. So even living with her in Atlanta was like a whole different bargain for me because I've first of all, I've never been away from home that long. Right. Away from my parents for that long. And having to leave like my church gig, having to leave the Elvarna gig. Yeah, it was a big uh a big decision that I that I had to make. You know what I'm saying? One day she was like, yo, you want to come to Lana? And I was like, yo. How can you say no? I mean, you could.
SPEAKER_02No, but I mean, like, if if this is what you're trying to do.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, you know, you know, you you you could, bro, but it really depends on your situation. And at the time, I was open enough to to make that decision. Yeah. So it was it was all worth it, bro. It was all worth it, bro. Yeah, yeah, good or bad, good and bad.
SPEAKER_02Right, right. Now, I know you also on a different note, you you were producing Afrobeat, like early in the in the Afrobeat uh uh process. Tell us about that experience.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so that's that's a whole different situation. That's not even with Missy, that's just a whole different vibe. Um there was an artist, um, and he's he's still around, we just don't really work as much, but his name is Chris Akiami. And I met Chris, I would say 2008. Um he's a Nigerian um guy, Nigerian. So we just started to click. He's a guitar player. So at the time in the beginning, we wasn't even doing AfroPop, bro. We was doing stuff like a John Mayer, like that type of stuff, alternative, right? Right, and his cousins just had a machine to where they can generate money to to advertise or brand his his art, right? At that time too. Yeah, you feel me? So records like radio, we did a record called radio, and it ended up on MTVU, Unplug his video. So we shot the video uh in New York and it ended up on MTVU. So that was a big deal around that time, yeah. Because to to me, um it's almost like artist development. That's what it was. Yeah, and I enjoy that more than I do just making beats. Right, right, right. Like I'd rather just take I'd rather just take anybody and say, yo, lock in with me. Right. I can make you from nothing to to something. I can you know what I'm saying? I enjoy that. That's like my that's like my rush. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You get me, but fast forward, um we stopped doing the John Mary stuff and we changed genres like two or three times, bro. The third time was Afro Pop. Okay, and he put me on to AfroPop, even even before it was a thing in America, bro. Yeah, like AfroPop wasn't a thing around 2011. Right, right, right. They put me on. So when they put me on, I was like, wow, this is uh this is dope. Like this is drum-driven, a lot of tribal um percussion going on. So um I was like, bro, let's start making Afro pop music. And for some reason, we was like, bro, watch one day afro pop is going to come to America and it's gonna become something. They tried it before, but it didn't really stick. That's what we were saying at the time. It was like, let's get on it now, yeah. And this is 2011, but let's get on it now. So we did a couple of records, fast forward, it's slowly coming to America. Artists like David O, you know David O, artists like WhizKid was coming to America, and um bro, grace of God, man. One day he's in the studio working on music, me and Chris, Chris Akiani, and one of his cousins, um, there was a guy that was working for this company called Temple Management Company in Nigeria, and he was like, bro, he was telling us I need you to pick up one of the guys from the airport to take him somewhere. And we thought it was an opportunity because we was like, yo, he got some pool in Nigeria. Let's let's scoop him up. Yeah, we stopped doing what we were doing in the studio, picked him up, played him on music. He was like, bro, I'm about to call the CEO of Timber Management and have you guys have a meeting. So we got a little pumped up. We had the meeting at Rock Nation. So the CEO, his name is Idris. We we go to Rock Nation and we meet Biggs. He and he in the room with Biggs and um is us Idris and a couple of guys, and they just talking about just politics, you know, but we're there, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, in the room, we in the room. So so they started playing our music, and um Biggs was like Biggs was like, yo, these boys is dope, these boys is nice, and um that was it, bro. You know what I'm saying? The meeting was over, and had more conversations with the CEO. Next thing you know, we get signed. Wow. So I got signed as a producer at Temple Management, and Chris A got signed as an artist. Wow, yeah, and we were signed to them for about three, four years. So we was going back and forth to Nigeria, bro. Like they were flying this first class. What talking about you talking about light skinned brother, Nigerian brother? Ooh, wee. Let's not talk about that, bro. But it was a good experience, you know. Yeah, boy.
SPEAKER_02Yeah I mean, what was what was the culture like? What was that? That's a whole different thing to be involved. Like you grew up here, what was it like to be in that culture and and doing what you're doing?
SPEAKER_01Well, I think I was already adjusted to it because, like I said, my closest friends, uh Chris Akiami and Ty Suze, and other artists that I work with, and they're cousins as well. Um I was around their families, bro. So as far as just knowing a culture, knowing the food, and knowing how to talk to that environment, I was felt like home. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? Felt like home. Um so yeah, that that was cool, bro. Um, and and we had a song, a single called Culture, with me and uh Chris Aki. I mean, also we had a record with this uh artist named uh Nina Ola. And she was a well, she is still a popular artist in Nigeria. It's called um Um Josoro. Okay, yeah, shot those videos, so it was yeah, and now Afro pop is all over the place, yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know, you know Burnham Boy, yeah, of course. So before Burnaby was even big in America, he was he was still hot in Nigeria, bro. Okay, back then. He was hot in Nigeria, but wasn't hot here, right? Right, right. You know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_02Unfortunately, yeah, it takes some time for for different sounds to catch on, you know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02But that's that's how it is. So all right, so so what what are you doing now musically? Like what's what's your what's your motivations now? What are you going for? Because I see I see some of your videos, and you know, I see a lot of experimental things, but what are you what are you working on?
SPEAKER_01Well, you gotta understand, man. Uh I feel like the the industry is so different now, bro. Yeah, so different now, man. I mean, we can make phones, we can make music on our phones. Um we can make music just by using a mic. You know what I'm saying? So how I how I look at the industry is almost like um it's almost like therapy for me, man. Right. It's it's definitely like therapy. And I always say musicians, artists, always find another way to bring in income. Just don't rely on music fully, you know what I'm saying? Because in this in this business, things can go up and down, up and down, up and down, up and down. So I will say try to start a business. The money that you make from your music, start a business so that you can still, you know, get cash flow just flowing, you know. So so that's what that's where I'm at now, bro. No, for sure.
SPEAKER_02I we we we talk about pivoting. That's that's that's what we call pivoting, which is basically like finding something else, either either instead of or just additional to, like supplemental. Um, I mean, and we know as musicians, like I've worked with you in church, work with you on records, work with you on the like the gig scene, you know what I'm saying? So there's always those things as musicians, and like if you're just home, then that's what you should be doing. You know what I mean? You should be working, especially as as you have the capacity to do it, you know. Right, right. Um, but if it's it's nothing wrong with having a gig to a job, it's nothing wrong with none of those things.
SPEAKER_01People people think that um, you know, if you're this type of celebrity, oh your focus just gotta be on that and that's sitting uh man. You got some rappers and artists that's still picking up food, yeah. And that's okay.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean, whatever you gotta do. I I think it was Akon that said it famously, like, hey, like keep your day job. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, like as long as you can and as long as you need to, because one, the business, even the business of royalty is not the same anymore because there's just you you you figure how do people consume their music now? More so in in streaming, and streaming just really has not worked out for for most artists, you know what I mean. So if that's your plan to to look at the success of people from back in the day when they were actually selling CDs and records and albums for a decent amount of money, you know what I'm saying? Even even you know, when I met when I met you and I met your mom, yeah, they would she was selling CDs. So at least a CD, you're gonna make 10 bucks, you know, a pop. And you know, you know what?
SPEAKER_01And that's what my mother was doing, bro.
SPEAKER_02Literally, she went what you call it, just did it.
SPEAKER_01Yo, or J. Cole. J. Cole just did it, you know.
SPEAKER_02So again, that's it just shows you a model that is kind of foolproof, especially in a time when people aren't doing it. Right because now you're the anomaly, and it's it's like a specialty. Like, oh, I got something that people don't have. Like people selling vinyl too, like that. Like, you know, you got something that is collectible, you know. You don't back in our day, CDs were so cheap, man. You would have a million CDs in your house and be and lost.
SPEAKER_01Go go to downtown Newark, bootleg, uh two, two for five.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and you would you would just have everything. But now, because you don't have that, selling your own is still it's special again. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01So um Yeah, what I think I think now for me, um my focus is really just branding myself more, you know what I'm saying? Branding myself as a producer more because I feel like a lot of producers not even doing that, they think it's just oh, let's lock in the studio and that's it. But things are so different now. Yeah, yeah. You just can't get a pub deal and then and then you good. Yeah, no, but you I don't even think pub deals exist.
SPEAKER_02I think they still they're just few and far between, you know.
SPEAKER_01Maybe 50,000 to 40,000, but that ain't really I mean, it's hard to recoup that.
SPEAKER_02If if you could get a hit, I mean anybody. Radio though. And that's the hard, that's the hard thing. Yeah, a radio hit nowadays. A lot of people are getting sync hits.
SPEAKER_01Like if you get a commercial, see that's where that's where that's where it's at.
SPEAKER_02If you get a commercial, that's like a radio hit, because the TV is gonna play as much or more than a radio, right? And so people will now exam you from the TV and now they stream you. But now once they know you, the the the publishing companies will say, Okay, this money, this this song is generating money. Yeah, so we need to be in on this, yeah, whoever this person is. So that's to me your path, one of your paths. Um, radio is just always still gonna be good, but it's hard, you know what I'm saying? Oh, yeah. It's not, I mean, you know, I have some good radio play, but it's hard, it's expensive, it takes a long time. Very expensive. It's it's worth it, especially if you can get to those top tiers, because that's really where you make some traction. But I I've I remember talking to an executive, uh a record executive, and they were like, yo, you can have a number one record, and people still not even know who you are. Yeah, that's true because at the end of the day, that's true, the way that it's working these days, you can you're kind of paying your way in a little bit, and you know, you're getting the influence of somebody who's who has the influence, and they'll get you to number one. But once you're at number one, it's like all right. You gotta find a way to stick. Exactly. Well, you have to actually do the work, you gotta go meet the people, you gotta do the interviews, you gotta do the concerts, you gotta do the thing. Show your face. Yeah. If they don't think you exist, then you don't exist.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, even if they hear you on the radio, yeah, you know, so and that's one of the reasons why Kanye West is still relevant to this day because shows his face. You're gonna show it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think I think um one thing I've heard about, and I I'm thinking I'm going to also pursue a little bit, is producing producer albums, like just an album of your music that like at producers put out. Like not necessarily always with an artist. Sometimes, sometimes with an artist, like you might just like have a compilation of artists or or that you work with or that you're with, and that is a thing that showcases what you can do too. So I think you know that's something to explore. Because at this point, man, I I would love to, you know, I would love to be rich off of this, right? But yeah, yeah, yeah. Whether I am or not, I still want my music to be heard, you know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_01And and to own, just keep keep all your rights too. That's that's right, be a right owner. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_02That's key. I think I think there's something to one branding consistently, there's something to creating consistently, and then finding your own ways to to uh to release and to let you get your music out there, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Like for example, uh the Afro pop artist uh uh Rima. You ever heard of Rima? Yeah, you know the song Slow Down, okay, or Calm Down, baby, calm down, yeah, yeah, yeah. Bro, his team had to put up 2.5 million for that one song. Wow. And got some in a gomez. That's what it takes. And they just recouped it, you know what I'm saying? Triple.
SPEAKER_02And that's the thing. You you it's a chance to take because you're gonna be in super debt.
SPEAKER_01It's like investing, yeah.
SPEAKER_02You know, I remember someone told my cuz, like, yo, your music is hot fire, you just need to get like 250,000 and promote it. And I'm like, that sounds great if you got 250,000, just laying there, yeah, or or if you got the credit, maybe, because even if you got the credit, you you're gonna go, you're gonna be in debt. That's either way, so it's just it gotta work, you know what I'm saying? But you think about record deals, all those are is debt too, you know. I'm saying at the end of the day, it's just somebody else that's saying, Yo, I'm gonna hold your debt, and I'm gonna not only collect a lion's share of what you get back, but I'm also going to collect on every dollar that you have to pay. So let's say if we got a deal, I think uh I forget who it was that was talking about this, uh, like big a big artist. Um, and he was just saying a jelly roll. Jelly Roll was talking about it. Okay, he was just like, I wanted to say he says something like not only do you have to give the the record company like 90% of whatever you're making on it, but then even that 10% you might get that has to start paying back what you owe them. Yeah, bro. You know what I'm saying? So it's like you owe them a million dollars, and let's say you made a million, yeah, bro. You only able to pay back 10% of that from what you got. Yeah, so they made 900,000, but that's just theirs. That hundred thousand is the first payment of your million. It's tough, man. That's crazy work. But so in the in the scenario of getting a loan, if you get a loan, that's terms with you. You pay back whatever you pay back, right at whatever term you pay it back, right? And now you just really, if you get a line of credit, even better.
SPEAKER_01You could just pay it down, spend it, pay it down, spend it, and keep putting out records until but the difference between being with a label, they got the machine behind it. Oh, yeah. So let's just say you took a loan out for yourself, and then what you gonna do with it? You know, that's right.
SPEAKER_02Gotta understand the machine, yeah. You have to make friends with the with the same machine. I mean, look, this is the thing about the machine, it's people, it's people, yeah, and it's and it's systems, right? Like, even if let's say part of the machine is bots, because labels use bots too to run up their numbers, right? The but the people who sell in the bots, they don't care where their money comes from, right? They taking the money from whomever. So same thing with radio play, you know, you go to a radio promoter, they taking the money from whoever. You know what I'm saying? Now they might prioritize this label because they got 10 artists to your one artist, but they're gonna take your money and they're gonna do the same thing. Same thing. So, so you know, it it really just comes down to having the money at the end of the day. Yeah, that's true, and then knowing the right people, which you can find out. But yeah, so what's what's what's next on the agenda for Mr. Lab?
SPEAKER_01Well, well, right now, man, I'm I'm working on this. Um, not supposed to be talking about it, but I'm working on a uh a game. Like I'm doing music for a game. Dope. Yeah. Um, somebody threw me a crazy trek. So I'm I'm locked in, like 50 songs. That's fine. That's my main focus for the game.
SPEAKER_03So you're doing the whole game, all of the music. All of the music. That's dope. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01But it'll be out soon, though. That's fine. Yeah, it'll it'll be out soon. So that's that's what I'm focusing on right now. And of course, still working with different artists, um, still doing artist development with certain artists, um, still playing, bro. Yeah, um, in case y'all didn't know, uh, you know, drummer for L Varner for a couple of years. So um still doing my thing, bro. And and all and all, you know, on top of that, I was in the movie too, bro.
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah, you did some acting. And weren't you doing modeling before too?
SPEAKER_01Um, just a little bit, man, but more more um just acting. Okay. Yeah, how did that go?
SPEAKER_02How was that experience, I should say?
SPEAKER_01It was a different experience for sure. Because you you know me, man. I'm like behind the scenes, just chill. Yeah. Um, but I came out of character, bro, and that was a great experience, man. Men don't cheat. Yeah. Men don't cheat on Tubi. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02No, nice, nice, nice.
SPEAKER_01Men don't cheat. So, because I always felt like, um, I don't know, man. I always felt like um, I may not be the best producer or the best musician, but I feel like just all around person that touched certain things. I felt like I accomplished that in a way, you know what I mean? Touching acting or or you know, going on tour or being a producer or being a musician or teaching or doing that type of thing, man, or even doing modeling too at a at a young age, too. So I'm I'm like very um blessed that I even got a chance to do those things and experience those things, bro, and travel to Nigeria and go to a whole different industry, whole different sound. Yeah, and for me to accomplish that, that was like a uh a blessing, bro.
SPEAKER_02Now that's dope. What what uh advice would you give somebody, especially these days? Like somebody starting out, like if you were just starting out, you were 15 years old, looking at like yo, you know, this industry, all of this stuff. What would you tell yourself now if you were now counseling your 15-year-old self about what path to take, what they should do, what they shouldn't do?
SPEAKER_01Ooh, learn the business, bro. Learn the business because if not, they will run you down. Wow. Yeah, you gotta be more hard, hardcore. Um, speak up, yeah. Um, know who you are as a person, because if not, they'll take it away. And I've been in situations where my mouth was shut, and they told me to don't say don't say anything, keep your mouth closed, and I just did what I did. So if I had to go back, my business would be a lot sharper for sure. Yeah. And even on the first, um, my first placement, which was the Monica record, everything to me. You know, I laid drums on that, and you know, that situation was like a a learning curve. Yeah, you know, because not having my full name on the credits was like a you know what I'm saying? Yeah, but we all learn, bro. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We all learn.
SPEAKER_02That's that's the trick about some of those experiences, are the learning, and we just gotta learn a lesson early so we don't repeat that that that that test again, you know? Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So learn a business, guys. Like really um study on what you're doing. Also, artist development, man. No, know what's going on in the streets, bro. Yeah, for sure, for sure. Yeah, bro.
SPEAKER_02What's what's um what was your favorite experience?
SPEAKER_01Uh my favorite experience. Um yeah, that that 40th Diddy birthday party. Okay, yeah, that was like, yeah, that was like uh when when I walked in those doors, that was like a oh, I'm here. Like, yeah, like I'm here, you feel me? Nice, like both feet is in the door. That's that's that's how I felt. Um because I met a lot of great people, yeah, you know, um, like Beyonce, Jay, May Condition, Trey Songs, like Oprah, everybody was there, Lil Cam, like so that was crazy.
SPEAKER_02His part I went to I got to go, my my cousins were on the tour with him. Which tour? Um, the uh press play.
SPEAKER_03Oh, do you know last night? Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02So I I I flew out there, I was like, yo, I'm gonna go hang with them. So I happened to come out there and they had this party for PlayStation. It was one of their PlayStation consoles that they were launching. And I mean, everybody was at this party, bro. Yeah, so I mean, like comedians, I saw Chris Rock, Bill Bill Maher, I saw, you know, Paris Hilton, everybody. It's just like just like everybody, and it was like it was like a mall that was like uh abandoned mall, and it just took over the whole space and just kind of built the whole party. It was crazy. It was because it was PlayStation, so everything was like play uh themed. They had like candy shop and all this kind of stuff. It was dope though, but it was just dope to see things on that scale, you know what I'm saying? Oh, yeah, and that wasn't the first time I saw stuff. Like I got to I my my aunt built Puffy Studio, so I got to see that. I got to see that stuff, you know, firsthand. Like Daddy House and the stuff. Daddy's house, absolutely. My aunt built daddy's house. That's dope. You know what I'm saying? So that was something that I spent time there. You know, my brother worked there, my cousin worked there because they were working with my aunt. So again, even that whole thing about celebrity, like you, I I see I've been in a room with 112. I've been, you know, been in a room with those producers and stuff like that. So it's not something that you'd be like, oh my gosh, this is just like yo, they regular, man. Yeah, cool too. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. My brother was going to the store for Biggie. You know what I'm saying? Like, okay, let me go bring him back some food from you know, whatever, because he was working at the studio. So those things, those are just experiences that, again, they they give you perspective, but they also in different spaces, they allow you to kind of hold your head up and say, like, okay, if I could do that on that level, then I could do it on on this other level that's probably not Diddy. It's I think that's what it was. You know what I'm saying? It gives you a certain confidence just being um in spaces that other people regard all the way up there, you know?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. I think that's what it was because I wasn't really starstruck, like I said before. I just felt like wow, like this, I can I can really make something out of this. That's what it felt like. Like this, this can really be serious. Right. You know, this is back in 2008. It's real. Like it's real.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, my aunt let me record in daddy's house before. And that that was that was like a real that was yeah, that was like, okay, I could do this. You know what I'm saying? Right, right. Like, like I don't understand it all, but this access point at least gives me a point in my life where I can say, okay, this happened, so why can't anything else happen? Right.
SPEAKER_01You know what I'm saying? And you would think at that time I was uh 18, 19. So you would think that I would only care about just partying, drinking, and and smoking and just dancing, but bro, I was networking, yeah, I was talking. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? And I pretty sure a lot of kids at that time wouldn't even do that, they'll just be so locked in, just trying to turn up. And I'm just like, yo, this is my opportunity. Yeah, I'm still with Soul Diggers, but I'm about to lock in, yeah, meet, talk. So that was that was the situation, and that's how I got myself to uh work on the last train of Paris album around that time. Me going to daddy's side. I was going to daddy's house. Yeah, I didn't have a laptop, and it was like, yo, bring your computer. So you know the iMac all in one. You bringing the whole iMac? I was bringing a whole iMac, bro. The whole screen. Yeah, whatever you need it. That's what you're doing. Brought it to the studio with no case. Yeah, yeah. In a truck, that's what you gotta do. Yeah, bro, locked in. That's how bad I wanted it, bro.
SPEAKER_02That's what it takes, yeah, man. That's dope, man. Listen, I appreciate you coming on, man. Uh, yeah, bro. I wish you phenomenal success because you're so talented. Appreciate you, bro. Where can people like check you out, hit you up? They want to check out your music. Where can they check that out?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you guys can go to my IG, um, The Only Mr. Lab, as well as my TikTok and my Facebook, also YouTube. So you guys can just check me out, man. Love y'all. Nice. Thank you. Musicianship podcast.
SPEAKER_02Come back again. Thank you, brother.
SPEAKER_00Thanks for listening. To stay up to date between episodes, follow us on Facebook, TikTok, and Instagram, and make sure you're subscribed to our YouTube channel. If you liked what you heard today, or if there's something specific you want us to dive into next, leave us a comment. Catch you in the next episode.