THE MUSICIAN'S SHED PODCAST: MISHA JOSEPHS (Full interview)

In this compelling episode of The Musician’s Shed, host Samar Newsome sits down with versatile guitarist Misha Joseph. The conversation maps out Misha’s expansive journey—not just across genres, but across the globe—detailing his evolution from a young dreamer in Uzbekistan to a seasoned professional in the American music scene.

Key Discussion Points

• Roots in Uzbekistan: Misha shares memories of his early life in Uzbekistan, discussing the cultural atmosphere that first sparked his curiosity and the initial challenges of accessing diverse musical influences.
• The American Dream: The transition from Central Asia to America. Misha reflects on the "culture shock" and the drive required to establish a new identity in a highly competitive musical landscape.
• Finding the Voice: The moment Misha realized music wasn't just a hobby, but a calling. He discusses the specific artists and experiences that pivoted his path toward the guitar.
• The Professional Grind: A transparent look at what it takes to "make it." From rigorous practice schedules to the importance of networking and versatility, Misha breaks down the reality of life as a working musician.

Final Thoughts

This episode serves as an inspiring blueprint for any aspiring artist. Misha Joseph’s story is a testament to the fact that while technical skill is vital, persistence and adaptability are the true keys to a lasting career in music.

Where to Listen

• Available on: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube.
• Follow the Guest: Check out Misha Joseph’s latest projects and performances on his social media channels.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:14

Hey, this is the Musician Chef Podcast. I'm your host, Samar Newsom. And today I got one of my one of my brothers with me. And so I'm so excited. I haven't seen him in a while, but we we had a nice stint of time where we were just playing together exclusively, church, uh gigs, Atlantic City, touring a little bit. So I'm gonna talk to my brother, and I I mess up names all the time on here, but I'm gonna say your name, Misha Fatkiev. Yes, that's it. But that's not your real name. What's your what's your first name? So I go by Mikhail, right?

SPEAKER_02 0:49

Mikhail Fatkiev. Okay, right, right, right. I remember. But I go by Misha Joseph's. Okay, Misha Jesus. Because that's my middle name.

SPEAKER_01 0:55

Got it, got it, got it. And of course, I'm sure it's a lot easier sometimes, you know. Everybody can't that played a little factor in. Does your family call you Michael? Misha. Mike? Misha. Oh, they call you Misha. Okay, gotcha.

SPEAKER_02 1:10

And some of my family calls me Mike because that was my adopted name when I moved here. Gotcha. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:15

Gotcha. Okay. So moved here. I mean, tell us where'd you move from? Where'd you come from? Because I obviously Misha, Mikhail.

SPEAKER_02 1:23

Mikael, yeah. It's a typical Russian name. Uh, so I'm from a country called Uzbekistan. But it's like a little bit complicated because when I was born there, it was the Soviet Union, which is Russia. So Russia, Russian is the language. But when I was eight, it got its independence, and everything started changing, and then I moved here.

SPEAKER_01 1:45

Gotcha. Gotcha. You told me a crazy story about like a Pepsi or a Coke or something like one time back in back in Uzbekistan, I think. What was that? I forgot what it was. I don't I know you told me like something like it was just a crazy story.

SPEAKER_02 1:59

Yeah, it was like uh I think maybe the olive oil. My there was a couple of those stories. But like the thing is, it's hard for people to imagine. Um so before Uzbekistan got its independence, it was it was the Soviet Union, and things just were like dire. Everything was like really um so things in stores or like products, they didn't have like a lot of labels, the colorful, like all that stuff that we have here. Kind of like you know, those like old milk bottles, yeah, stuff look more like that. Yeah, yeah, it's just like stuff.

SPEAKER_01 2:32

Like you see in movies sometimes where it just looks like everything's generic.

SPEAKER_02 2:37

Yeah, kind of, yeah. And sometimes there would be nothing in the store in this in this in the st in the stores, like wow, yeah. So when so when my family would travel, they would go to like Germany. My my uncle sometimes would go to Germany, and they would bring back like a can of Coke or like a Snickers bar, and I would be like a kid freaking out, like because I've never seen anything like that. Yeah. So one time my dad brought something, uh, and I'll and I was like, Oh dad, is this Coke? Like, is this Coke? And he was like, Yeah, that's that's Coke, you know, and he just said, and I and I just started chugging it, and it turned out to be a bottle of olive oil. Oh, he didn't you wanted me to tell the story. So your dad set you up with that one. I guess he didn't think I was gonna chug it.

SPEAKER_01 3:22

Right, right, right. Well, so I mean I I guess when you're a little, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's like a lot low exposure, basically, right? Yeah, so that's crazy, man. Then, you know, obviously you you made your way here.

SPEAKER_02 3:33

Your family decided to come to America, like obviously, for yeah, actually, like five years before we came, because it's a five-year process. Yeah. It was a yeah. So I already knew about it. Okay. People were like, when are you going already?

SPEAKER_01 3:47

You said you were going four years ago. No, that's crazy. That's crazy. So, I mean, like I said, I I I marvel at people who come from different places. Like, I mean, I know people who come from like the Midwest and they come to New York, and I feel like they conquer New York. Or, you know, my cousin, you know, he might have been born in New York, but he grew up in Florida, and then he came to New York, and then, you know, his life, his, his, his career skyrocketed. So tell me about uh, of course, there's challenges coming not just from a different state, but coming from a different country, uh a different continent. You know what I'm saying? So what what was that like? I guess you were a kid first, so there's a transition there, but English, all of the things, how did all of that stuff impact you?

SPEAKER_02 4:33

Uh it was it was definitely a lot overall. Um, you know, obviously it was uh it was definitely disenchanting, I would say. Yeah, a little bit. Uh you know, because you have like these these fantastical notions of America and stuff like that. But it was it was it was okay. I I think it was a fairly nice transition. Like people were overall like accepting and uh especially compared to like a lot of immigrant experiences, yeah. Yeah, I felt, you know.

SPEAKER_01 5:05

Um so uh yeah, like I don't know, like ask me something like maybe like oh no, like well, I mean, so I'll I mean I don't want to get too deep into that, but I think that it's a good uh information to understand like what your backdrop was coming here. Then my next question would be like, what and when did you get into music? Because you're a guitarist, but when did you get into that? And tell tell us about what you do, period. Like, what do you do now? And then tell us about how you got into it.

SPEAKER_02 5:35

Okay, um, so I'm a guitarist, freelancer, I sing, um, I play guitar in various groups. Uh, live in New York, and I traveled and uh I've been on some records and uh played with amazing people such as yourself. And uh and uh I actually had a kind of a late start. Uh started when I was like 14, 15. Until then, I was just kind of like I don't know, like a like a kid on the street, you know, playing baseball on the street or whatever, like just doing kids stuff. Just doing kids stuff, yeah. And then and then once I discovered it just like it just pretty much absorbed me like immediately. So I just got really into it, and then I just been playing guitar ever since. Just upset.

SPEAKER_01 6:19

Like, did somebody just hand you a guitar or is just you just saw somebody playing or what?

SPEAKER_02 6:23

Uh that's a good question. Yeah, I was at my friends, and we were like, he was like cleaning out his closet and he found an old guitar, and I was just I found it fascinating, and I was like, oh, this is cool. And then uh I went to my dad, I said, Can you buy me a guitar? And he was kind of dismissive. I I think it might be like a cultural thing, but he was just like, Oh, whatever, you don't care about a guitar. I was like, No, no, I want it, I want it. Like, he made sure that I really wanted to push it, yeah. He had to, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not making that investment, yeah, exactly. And then uh, so he bought me one, and uh and uh yeah, and then after a couple months, he was like, Okay, he was like, he actually really like like this is his thing, right?

SPEAKER_01 7:03

You know, yeah. Now what was what was those? I don't know if you could think that far back, what were those initial playing on the strings? Because you didn't have YouTube, you didn't have what we have now, where a kid could actually learn any instrument right now with uh with the assistance of just like in their bedroom, be honest. But you didn't have that, you just had to kind of figure things out, probably until you got a teacher. What was that initial like?

SPEAKER_02 7:29

Uh not so some of the first influences were my family friends and my family. So uh there's like a Russian culture of playing these Russian songs, and a lot of my uh parents' friends have guitars and they play and they sing like really simple Russian songs, it's more based on the poetry, like folk songs, folk songs, exactly, exactly folk songs. So a lot of that was my first exposure to guitar or some of their kids, like they would show me a little like nirvana lick. Nice, and I would just be like, Okay, like this, da-da-da. And they'd be like, Yeah, you just got it, like immediately. So that's kind of when I when I knew I was really into it.

SPEAKER_01 8:04

It's crazy because I remember like there was a time when when rock culture was like really big in the 80s, and that's when I mean you just all these garage bands popped up, all these people kind of popped up, and so it's crazy the influence of just seeing things sometimes, and just like I'm sure, like you just said, a nirvana lick. That's probably what a lot of teenage boys were just trying to do, you know. Like, let me just get this little, I like that. So that's that's a cool little reason, you know, and then like you said, you just kind of gravitated to it.

SPEAKER_02 8:37

So, how do people do it now? Yeah, absolutely. You said how do they do it? Yeah, I mean, just is it more?

SPEAKER_01 8:42

I don't know because because there's you remember you you got so many factors into influence of music back in the day. Like, even if I think about mine, um, there was such a diversity, let's say, in just gospel music. There was a diversity in it, like there were so many different sounds, there were so many different uh artists, and in the 90s, especially, like, which was kind of my maturity of learning um music, there was so many great things going on in the 90s. I mean, RB music was at its height to me, um, hip-hop was kind of at its height to me. Um, and gospel even was at its height, you know what I mean? Like that was kind of the emergence of Kirk Franklin, which was kind of a change of the guard, but you had already had Richard Smallwood, Edwin Hawkins, Walter Hawkins, you know, you had you had the greats. And so once uh Andre Crouch, once you already had those greats on the scene, they set a standard, and so everybody else was kind of like uh a version of those standards, and Kirk was kind of like almost like a mixture of like hip-hop and those standards, you know what I'm saying? And so um, and then now gospel is not as diverse, you know what I'm saying? Like if you talk about something like gospel, so um you you and I grew up in the era where music to me was was a certain diversity, even rock, again, rock was at its height to me, and pop also pop and rock were kind of at their height of influence to me.

SPEAKER_02 10:18

I never thought of it that way. It's crazy, right? Yeah, yeah, but but there was also a little bit of more of a maybe I'm wrong, or or maybe that was a local thing, but it felt like there was a little bit more of like um like like a line between the different things.

SPEAKER_01 10:34

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's true. That's true. I mean, before before Run DMC did walk this way with Aerosmith, right, right. You never saw that those collaborations, you know what I'm saying? As a matter of fact, I tell my students all the time about the old king of RB uh proclaimed uh Bobby Brown. Bobby Brown was like the king of RB, like late 80s, 90s, and he used to rap on his own records, you know what I'm saying? So, you know, he he wasn't collaborating with rappers then because rap wasn't as popular yet. It was getting popular, so that's why he did it, I'm sure. But having a collaboration wasn't as popular, but that to me, those merging of audiences really kind of uh is what probably made all of those things bigger, all of those genres. So but yeah, man. So what what what was the first genre that you were attracted to?

SPEAKER_02 11:31

Um another good question. Um I would say the the first one, first, first one was was rock, but it it didn't last very long. I mean, don't get me wrong, I love rock and I've always loved rock, but that that initial attraction to rock was definitely like replaced by blues music. Okay, gotcha. Really, really pretty much immediately. Because I was like, well, because then I was like, oh, this this is what these guys were listening to. Yeah, or this is where they they were getting. So then I I kind of gravitated to that. And when I heard that, like when I heard like Freddie King or or BB or like uh like this old blues guys, I was just like, wow, and and that really moved me. I was like, I want to do that, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:16

And it's crazy because even rock guitar, a lot of their lines are based in blues skills, yeah, which is crazy. So, you know, it I mean, now I love a good rock guitar solo, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. And they and they had the it's almost like they had some more action to it, whereas blues have more finesse to it, and more, you know what I'm saying, like subtlety to it versus like I'm gonna just do some crazy fast and all that stuff like that. But you're right, and I and I, yeah. I appreciated that. No, but yeah, so so what was your first what was the first song you you know the first song you learned?

SPEAKER_02 12:57

First song I learned, it was yeah, it was like it's at some party of my parents' friends, and it and like some kids showed me uh come as you are. Oh wow. Uh the the the Nirvana song. But like the first song song, like a full song, probably stare to heaven. Okay, yeah. It's very that's very typical. Yeah. But uh it took me a while, man, because it's actually kind of hard. And the guitar that I was playing on, um, it had a really high action, so I had to really work for it. And my parents were like, well, if you keep your grades up, or if you get good grades, we'll we'll we're gonna get you another um a better one that's easier to play, you know. Okay, and it didn't happen. So so I had to play on that guitar with the high strings for constantly, and it made my my hands stronger, actually. Oh, see, it was working in your good, in your favor. Yeah, and then and then after like that period, I got into blues and I played a lot of blues, like Robert Johnson stuff. Those is that was some of the first stuff I played with the slide, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:04

Yeah, that's cool, that's cool. What um okay, so now I know that I think I heard a story once where you were saying part of your development was preparing for your audition for college, right? I think you had yeah, you told me that before. So tell us about that.

SPEAKER_02 14:20

Yeah, I uh I had this um random job in the summer in high school um at uh working at like a uh telemarketing thing. And uh there was we were on a smoke smoke break, and I was just standing outside, and uh I I asked the guy, what do you do? And he's like, uh he's like, I go to school for jazz guitar. Oh, you could do that. That's a thing? I was like, yeah, I was like, you could do that. He was like, yeah. I was like, okay, I play guitar, how do I do that? And he was like, Well, you gotta learn how to read, and uh, you know, you gotta learn like the jazz forms and all that. And uh he actually helped me. That's dope. And um it's it I didn't get in right away, like it took me a year, but I yeah, but I practiced and yeah, and then I went to uh Bruckers for Jazz Guitar, which is what that guy was doing.

SPEAKER_01 15:12

That's dope, man. That's dope. So what was that college formative time like, you know? Like, because I mean, you're you're you sound like you're a little green going in. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you're like, I'm I'm learning and I'm preparing for it, which is cool, yeah, which should get you in the door. So now you get there. Was there any struggle there just because you were kind of late to that party?

SPEAKER_02 15:34

Um, absolutely, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Um it's it's you know, it's it's like you you go in and you think you're like you're gonna learn this thing, quote unquote, but to learn this thing it's gonna be a whole lifetime. Yeah, it's like an ocean, you know, and then like you're barely getting into it, and then you're in college and they're trying to they're trying to give you like some basic things here and there, and then um you know, you're thinking about your life and all that, and and and it w it was definitely a lot, so but I think it's great, it's good because it was like like a lot of nuggets that you get, and then like after you leave, you're still kind of unraveling all of that because it's so much information and like when you're young, you can't even absorb or use all of it right away. Absolutely. But it was a great experience. I mean, I was exposed to like uh William Fielder and my guitar teacher Vic Juris, Ralph Bowen, Stanley Cowell, uh Conrad Herwig, like these are jazz uh like like legends, man. Like so it's amazing to be there and be exposed to to them, you know. Um and uh yeah, yes, it's like I said, I'm still like unwrapping that because this is just you just get so much.

SPEAKER_01 16:47

Like you said, it's lifelong. It's crazy you said that because I I I even in some of my voice, I like voice students that I teach, I tell them all the time, like, especially young ones, I'm like, your voice doesn't even develop to like mid-20s. So, like, even though you're learning these techniques, your voice could continue changing and likely will, you know, for a period of time. And it's which is okay, but you still can apply the techniques. But by the time your your voice settles, those techniques will kind of come into play a little bit more, like where your consistency is, you know what I'm saying? And then, you know, when all of that stuff comes together, you'll see. And I I learned the same way, man. I was like as a teacher, too. That's the other thing. So because I became a teacher, I found myself rehearsing a lot of the lessons that I learned in college as well, and that was like a strong way to remember them and to reinforce them. So Westminster? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I went to I went to Mason Gross first, though. I went to Mason Gross. I always tell the story. Went to Mason Gross as a singer, and so I I didn't find the community was strong for singers. It was like, I think we had a choir with maybe like 20, 30 people in it. That was like the university choir, you know what I'm saying? And and and great people, amazing uh instructors. Um what I recall though is that the university itself or the school itself had way more people who were instrumentalists to me. Like it was like band people, uh jazz people, and so vocal-wise, it wasn't enough for me community to to like keep me there and like keep me, you know. And my brother was like the man there at Rutgers on the other campus. Like they were DJs and they had a whole run at Ruckers in terms of like the best parties, the like they were just like they they were they were beating out the uh fraternities in terms of coolness factor and all of that. So I was going to parties and they were running the parties. So we were like, I was at the so you know, that was a different experience. Like, so as a musician, I'm like, well, this is not helping me musically, this is a great social thing, but musically, it wasn't helping me. So well, you can still come to the parties if you're gonna be able to do that. Oh, absolutely, exactly. Let me go to Westminster. It's about you know 30 minutes away, you know, in Princeton. So that's what I ended up doing. And I mean, I I think I made a wise choice because, like I said, I sat in a methods class, man. Um, like my first year, first semester. And I sat in a methods class, and I'm like, I'm not really a strong reader, you know what I'm saying? So everybody in there is to me, they got it a lot faster than I did. And I was just like, I'm missing some foundation here. So I ended up, you know, even in theory, they're their first level of theory was like theory three at Westminster, you know what I'm saying? In terms of like counterpoint and stuff like that. I was like, I don't even know, you know, F-A-C-E yet, you know what I'm saying? So so honestly, it was the best thing I could do for like being a developmental musician. Like, I could see where I could have just got discouraged and just left music. But deciding, you know what, I'm gonna go to Westminster, which is a choir college. You know, my my teacher had gone there, so I was like, let me go to Westminster. And yo, like I said, they started at the bottom in terms of reading because they they I I think they acknowledge that a lot of vocalists can access that instrument without reading. You can. Whereas other instruments, your your repertoire, you can't get as much without reading, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, which I think is crazy, and I never thought of, but like it makes a lot more sense, like you know what I mean. So, um, but I I found my foundation, and that was that was the best thing I could have done.

SPEAKER_02 20:43

So yeah, it's amazing. I mean, we we've always had a really good communication about like um like your the way you communicate music, like when when I was working with you and you were a band leader, like you could explain the harmony of a song, and I'm like, oh okay, now I know what you mean. You're like it's this kind of thing. So definitely, definitely.

SPEAKER_01 21:04

Yeah, and that's again that comes from having some foundation, like because the foundation's the same, doesn't it? Doesn't matter what instrument you're playing, like the notes, the chords, all that stuff, the structures are the same. Then as you learn different genres, you can interpret properly, you know what I'm saying? So, what what um let's talk about that? I mean, we had some fun together. Yeah, definitely. We did some fun gigs together. We were spending like New Year's Eve almost every year together doing some kind of gig somewhere. Um, oh yeah, what was that experience like? Because I think when when that band was put together, that was like my first time doing like gigs like that. Like uh yeah, like uh wedding gigs and and and casinos and stuff like that. I've never done like I'd probably do one offs, but not like in a band consistently, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, that was pretty consistent. So, what was what was your experience like going into that? Because I know you were like a dope jazz cat by the And so what what was that transition to a different music?

SPEAKER_02 22:06

It was so much fun. Um you know, it's definitely a different feeling to play dance music. Yeah. You know, you're playing for people dancing, like you gotta make sure the the floor is is full, you know, and and that's that's just has um it gives you a different perspective on music and it it just makes it more makes it more fun. Um because uh because it's not like you're not like overthinking or whatever. It just has to feel good and it just has to be bouncy. Yeah. And also it was like, you know, you're working with an 11-piece band, so so you gotta take so many people into consideration. Everybody comes from somewhere different, yeah. Like you're you're linking up with, so yeah, you definitely learn to work with people and and create something together, yeah. You know, in the moment. So and then also like I felt like, yeah, like you were saying, I was coming from a different background. So to work with you guys that that maybe have more experience um playing this kind of music or or these kind of grooves or or whatever, like it was it was uh really cool to be around, yeah. Just learn and just like absorb and and yeah, and had a really had a had a good uh good band leader too, uh Lee Hogan, and and yeah, and yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:27

Lee Hogan, man, cool guy. I actually got super respect for him. He's the one who actually called me in on the gig. Uh, I met him through my cousin Saunders. He was also uh uh horn, I'm sure they had worked on some so again, he he he assembled a great band, man. This band was dope in terms of just diversity. Um, like I think he was thoughtful the way he put together the band. So I I appreciate him. And of course, he had his stint with Prince, which I think was pretty dope for his career. I gotta get him on here too. But um, yeah, so what what did you feel like was the was a was a learning curve for you in that process of getting into like function 11 when we started doing that gig? I there wasn't, I thought it was perfect. Oh, you think it was good? Yeah, he's like I was good, I was already good.

SPEAKER_02 24:15

I'm kidding. I knew everything. No, I'm I'm kidding. Um I think you know, a couple musical things like um like when you're playing with a large band like that, the way you're gonna take solos is gonna be different. Uh you kind of have to fill up space, but at the same time, not fill up space. Uh um because it's such a large band, and like if everything is dropping off or you're soloing, you have to create something that's that's like a signature, you know. So things like that. Also, like uh locking in and and being on top of the beat. Yeah um, especially when Kel started playing, because you know, he he really pushes when he plays, and it's and that's what creates that energy that you get when he's playing. And uh so yeah, that definitely I had to be on my toes. And then yeah, he was basically he was basically having me play like on top of the beat, even when there was not no one else. Like if there's a guitar part where it's just guitar, and it was still like in my head, I'm supposed to be hearing all those things, and that stuff like that sticks with you forever because that's just rhythm section like stuff that that just like you just keep, and I I feel like it's it's really you know stuck with me wherever I any any kind of musical situation. If anything, now I gotta I gotta bring it back a little.

SPEAKER_01 25:41

Yeah, I mean it's crazy because no matter what, if you're in a rhythm section, drummer, keyboard, bass, guitar, you're you have to find a pocket. You're almost like because because just the just the nature of what you're doing in the section, there has to be parts and pieces that are put together that fit together, not necessarily always overlap, but but actually have their own place. And you know, I've I've been preaching that for decades now, you know. Um, and it's important because again, it what I learned from playing with a band so big is that you have to find, and and the music will tell you this too. Like when you listen to like Cooling Gang and all of those older bands, the keyboard parts were so simple to me. I always talk about that. Like the keyboard part was just a pocket part, it wasn't it wasn't these big gospel 10 finger chords that I was used to, it was like three fingers, triads, you know, simple stuff, but just rhythmic or you know, pushed, you know, Chuck Brown, that organ on uh uh busting loose, like simple stuff though. Like and again, when when I unpacked it, I'm like, okay, this just fits like a glove, though. Like, it's not like you're just playing independent of the band, you're playing with the band, you're playing your part, guitar is playing everything. Yeah, and so that was something that was like amazing to me when I realized it. And I try to take it, you know, to any any band we play with. Like, listen, there's a part, it's not just play all your stuff, you know what I'm saying? And and we we had those conversations before, you know, because again, there was some adjustment that we all had to make to our plan. I know I had to make them because like I was used to playing these big 10-finger chords, you know what I'm saying? Like in gospel, you kind of like, especially if you grew up like I grew up playing organ and it's just an organist and a drummer. You're filling in bass, you're filling in melody, you're filling in chords, you're filling in so many things. But when you get into an 11-piece band, you almost got to say, okay, what can I play? What's left? You know what I'm saying? Like, but there is something you just gotta know, okay, some of it is texture-wise, like if guitar and keyboard are playing, there's texture that we build together, you know what I'm saying? So what um what have what did you have to learn about that? Because obviously, you know, we all had our time with that.

SPEAKER_02 28:17

Um yeah, yeah, I mean, just like we were saying, like I I br I pretty much would say um that I I I definitely like take that to wherever I go. And then I see that unfortunately sometimes people like like like a young I was just thinking about some young people that I see in the city, like coming to jam sessions, incredibly talented, like such good players. Like but yeah, there's like that thing that where like we were saying, like there's a part, even when you're soloing, you can solo in a way where you you're adding parts, and then it engages with the rest. Yeah, and you know, that that that takes time to develop. Um and yeah, and I and I really felt like I'm uh that you know, all those like guitar riffs and like funky stuff. I mean, I love doing it. And um, you know, I thought we were we were good at it, we were good at it. We were locking in for sure. Uh but yeah, it was it was still something that that like was like a mystery to me because you just trying to learn and discover. It's not like someone someone like it's like, oh, this is how you play guitar in a funk band. Like no one does that. Yeah, and uh, you know, you just you just try to learn and then you see a guitarist and you're like, oh cool, that's what he does, and then you go you see another band with another guitarist, and he does something completely different. Like true, you just try to formulate your own approach, yeah, and then just work with the people you're playing with, yeah. That's true.

SPEAKER_01 29:47

I again that was a that was a learning curve for me. Um just just coming from the gospel world, like I said, gospel world used to playing a lot more, filling in a lot more, coloring a lot more, like all of those things, and in a band funk or pop or whatever, it just doesn't require that. You know what I'm saying? It's like a different thing, and you got to create space for all 11 people, yeah. You know what I'm saying? And so um, that was it was challenging at first, but I I'll never matter of fact, you've corrected me on chords before. We were doing, I think it was the song we were playing. There was a song we were playing like uh don't go changing. Okay, remember that there's a chord in there, da da da da. There's one of the chords, but again, my first approach was like from a gospel perspective, like, and so I think you and I had a kind of like try this chord, you know what I'm saying? It's like okay, and it's simpler and stuff like that. So um thank you. Um, so now you you you were always to me committed to jazz, like that was like your first love. Is that correct? Sure, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:53

You you could say that. Um, I don't, you know, I I think it's it's important to use words that people could relate to, but at the same time, like I just at the end of the day, I think it's just music, you know, like I just I just love it. Like whether if I'm listening to Cool and the Gang or if I'm listening to like Miles, like it's just there's just a love and connection. It's just it's just music, and I don't, you know, but but yeah, the jazz tradition uh absolutely uh it's just like always something uh I'm gonna be playing, like jazz standards or or just just that kind of approach to my instrument. Um yeah, yeah. I mean, I I'm always like that, uh like the American the American songbook and like the history, you know, like the jazz history, the mid-century, the big band sounds, yeah, all that stuff, like the feeling of it, the content, the harmonies, like yeah, everything. I'm yeah, very attracted to all of that for sure. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:54

Definitely, definitely. Um, all right. So this is the musician shed, right? So we talk about shedding, and shed is is a popular jazz term, you know, go shed, you know, go go go practice, basically. What at the height of your time? Because I know like it it fluctuates like from when you are learning to now when you're more gigging and working. And I've heard a lot of musicians say like when they're on tour, they don't have a lot of time to practice, right? So for you, I know you gig a lot. What is your practice time regimen like? Because that's um you you ever read the book Outliers? You ever hear that book? Uh I heard of it. So basically, there's a theory in the book where um the author's talking about it takes 10,000 hours to be great at something. I've heard this idea. Yeah, so and I and again, I I I think there's so uh there's gotta be some relevance to it, some truth to it, because we studying was like Jordan, Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, you know, the the the uh Williams sisters. And when you think about their time that they put in prior to being professional, it probably adds up to about 10,000 hours or or even close to it, to where by the time they started becoming professionals, they just pushed it over over that mark. But um what is what was your most effective practice regimen in terms of time, in terms of like structure, or like if you if you feel like you have because I'm sure one thing about formal education is that you usually get some some structure that that somebody who's just looking on YouTube might not get the same structure. So what what was some of the structure that you was able to get?

SPEAKER_02 33:39

Um, you know, for me, I had to really strive for structure, like I had to search for structure because when you're learning guitar from a jazz perspective, um, this might sound controversial, but there is no such thing, in my opinion, as jazz guitar. It's just jazz play it on a guitar. Okay, gotcha. So it's not like this is how you play jazz guitar. It's like, no, you just take a guitar and you play this material on it, however, you play it is up to you. So in terms of like how to play my instrument and structure and all that, I had to go outside of the music, you know, to other kinds of music that use a lot of guitar. For example, classical music or Brazilian music or like funk music, rock music, all that stuff. And so now when I come back to it, you know, um, it gives me more structure, but I had to kind of look for it. So I don't know about um like like pre-created structures, but I think you kind of have to come up with your own structure, and it's I think it's very personal, and you have to come up with something that works, and you gotta kind of uh find a focus, like and then try to attack it and then and just try to stay within that and then shift to something else based on what you're doing at the time too. Because it's like I mean, Michael Jordan retired um when he was what in his 40s, right? And when when you're in your 40s and you're musician, that's that's only when it's like really starting to take understand it because it's just like us like an ocean. So um you're always gonna be doing that, whether like you know, you're later in your ear years, and and uh so for me, I think it's like you really gotta um create create your own structure. And for me, like it helps uh, for example, like I play play a lot of classical guitar as well. That helps me a lot. Meaning classical music or the classical guitar, the nylon string. The nylon string, classical guitar, yeah. And I do play classical music too on the on the electric, but yeah, and that helps me, but I kind of had to do that for myself, you know. Uh, because I because I find that because of the structure, it helps me because otherwise then my main my brain would have too many. Yeah, we have too many choices. Yeah, so I like that. Um, and then when I come to back to jazz, it's it's it's like I'm used to playing forms and structures, and I and I yeah. So, but that's what I found for myself. So, so that's I feel like it's it's very personal. Like you gotta find um find find your your own focus and your own structure and and how however that's helpful and and whatever the situation is.

SPEAKER_01 36:17

I hate that though, but I mean that but I understand it more now. I mean, like, you know, I I'll I'll look at different programs. I always want to like refine my teaching and my pedagogy, so I'll look at how other people approach it, you know, and one thing I've I've learned like and I've kind of realized in the last you know year or so is that a lot of especially like jazz and like really developing those things, is you deciding what skills you want to develop and then kind of creating your regimen around the skills you want to learn, which is crazy because you would think like, okay, go and practice these scales. Like when I was in college, it was practice these major scales, minor scales, you know, natural minor, melodic, harmonic, and or modes, stuff like that. So there was a structure in terms of foundationally, sure, but after the foundation is is there, you have to kind of like develop your own self using those foundational things, but like in ways that like, what are you trying to get better at? What do you want your playing to look like and sound like, which I think is a little bit harder, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_02 37:28

It's a little bit different, of course, of course, yeah, yeah. I mean, those are those that's your personality, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:35

Yes, that's but I think I think what's helpful, which always um a tradition in jazz was transcribing, like oh yeah, yeah, transcribing solos and transcribing because now that you you basically add into your to your repertoire, like by saying, Okay, uh, you know, uh Herbie did this line, so now let me practice that line, let me get it down in all the keys and and put it in context now. When I practice, my practice is putting it in context. So what what's your time frame of regimen in terms of uh practice? Like, do you like no? I gotta have this much practice time.

SPEAKER_02 38:11

Um, I pretty much, I mean, I work, you know, I'm I'm working in weekends, I'm working nights, but a lot of afternoons I'm I'm free. Uh, and if even if I'm not working in the evening, sometimes I'll practice like all night or something. I'll just practice. Yeah, I mean, really as much as I can, it's it's it's usually at least a couple of hours and anyway, and then it can go up to like, I don't know, a lot, like eight, eight to ten hours sometimes. Um uh that's yeah, that's my resume. Transcription definitely definitely is great. I transcribe anything, like I'll hear something, and I'll just be like, oh, I like that. Or even if I'm a movie, if I'm watching a movie, I'm like, oh, that's a nice song, and I'll try to figure it out. Yeah. And um, and then and then I have different sections, like I'll practice, like now I'm playing practicing classical stuff. So get get my get my uh get my hands right. Okay. It's like so I'm playing like without without like using the right muscles and exactly. So I'm relaxed, so then everything else I practice after that, I'm I'm gonna do it without hurting myself. Gotcha. Uh, but in terms of like priorities, you know, you gotta think about your instrument, you gotta think about your gigs, you gotta think about your life, you gotta think about your money. You know, it's like um I like most of what I do is like accompaniment. Yeah. So I I have to be good at that. You know, if someone's like, oh, he's a great accompanist, uh, and that's uh in his soloing, whatever. Um, I'm just saying as an example, you know, that they're gonna be thinking about accompaniments first because that's the nature of my instrument. That's what I do a lot. So you definitely spend time on that a lot.

SPEAKER_01 39:52

I think I think that's anybody in rhythm, period. I think I think I think the influx of soloists that you see on social media now kind of tricks you into thinking that that's what's gonna get you on a gig. But people will get you on a gig, but they'll assume that you know how to accompany. And if you don't, they won't call you back. You know what I mean? Because people uh most, I would say probably maybe 90% of people. I'm I might be guessing there, of the people that will hire you are hiring you to play alongside somebody or behind someone, versus there are people who will hire you for you though, too. Like you're a soloist, I want to see, I want to see you solo. But if you're doing it on social media, I kind of already saw it. You know what I mean? To be honest with you, yeah. But um, but there's some amazing talented musicians out here. I mean, like I talk about how people have gotten further faster, in my opinion. Like we're talking about you didn't have YouTube to learn nuance of of your playing, but you had like you and your friends, you know, uh and and just interaction. That's kind of how I learned. I remember I learned a Hezekiah Walker song from a a friend, a guy in c in high school who was playing it. I was like, show me that. You know what I'm saying? So I learned it, but um, but that's that's how we learned, you know. We didn't have YouTube where it's like I could be sitting at home and learn everything. Yeah, yeah. So it's amazing. So I think you can get there faster. However, there's still something to get in that regimen underneath you to have a mentorship too. Some people learn through just mentorship, and I think that's important too. Did you have a strong who who is your your biggest influence on your playing? Like it could be somebody you worked with or just somebody you were like, I I aspire to get on this level.

SPEAKER_02 41:43

You know, uh I had a great guitar guitar teacher, uh Vic Juris in college. And um, I also had a great teacher um named William Fielder. They call him prof. Uh, this guy is legendary. He taught like that.

SPEAKER_01 41:59

Matter of fact, my um I had um Sarita on. You know Sarita?

SPEAKER_02 42:04

Uh do I know Sarita?

SPEAKER_01 42:06

Trumpet player?

SPEAKER_02 42:07

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:08

Yeah, she she she said that what's the name? Uh what's his name? From uh Lincoln Center jazz. Uh Winton. She said Wenton told her she has to uh study with prof.

SPEAKER_02 42:21

Yeah, so he taught Winton, he taught uh Terrence Blanchard, he taught Sean Jones, like Mike Mossman, a lot of people, and a lot of people would go to him even um even after like when Freddie Hubbard was trying to rebuild his amateur. Wow, like he, you know, but anyway, like this guy is legendary, and I got a chance to hang out with him and learn from him. Uh he was legally blind. Wow. So I had to take him around like shopping or whatnot, you know, um, for a while. And uh I mean I didn't have to, but no, that's part of the that's part of the mentality. Yeah, so and then he and then we would get together and he would like write out uh lines and harmonies, we were and then he would and it's funny because he actually showed me things on the guitar that I that no one else ever showed me, like basic stuff, and that's kind of when I realized that my instrument is not standardized. I have to go outside of it to really to really like like jazz phrasing, for example, like the things that he would tell me about trumpet phrasing, I would just apply it to guitar. And then but yeah, he was he was he was one of them definitely one of the most inspiring people, wow, you know, and just amazing to be around. It's all another one of those things where I'm still unraveling the stuff that is that he's showing that he's showing me. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 43:43

Now, if you had to you saw your 14 year old self that found that guitar one day, uh huh, and you're you now, what would you tell your 14 year old self in terms of how to navigate the journey, what you liked about it, what

SPEAKER_02 44:01

Man, I want to go back a month and tell me no no don't don't do that from yesterday. You know what? I would say um I would actually probably give myself advice that's not musical. Like I would say uh I would probably tell myself to do more sports. Oh wow, even because I think that that has a good uh good effect on like practice and focus and uh I think everything else would be like too specific to like try to change, right? But I feel like if I just could do could just some balance, exactly, some balance, then I think because that affects your mood, everything, your health, true, you know, and that kind of like makes you make good decisions, even even I think just working out, period.

SPEAKER_01 45:08

Working out if you're doing something physical. I've seen you boxing. Oh, yeah, are you still boxing? Are you still doing it?

SPEAKER_02 45:12

I am, I am. It's um um I'm I'm not training as much right now, uh, but I'm getting back into it. I go through period phases, but gotcha, and that's kind of what you're saying. Uh yeah, yeah, and like learn just from that, I yeah, from doing that, definitely I learned a lot for just in general, and I think it's made it's made me like more focused as a person, and then musically like it it it affects it a lot.

SPEAKER_01 45:39

Yeah, we we learn in singing that you can't do anything with your voice outside of your body. Your body's your voice is part of the body. So how the voice uh is affected by mood, physical, you're sick, all of those things affect your body and infects your voice. So um I think that's similar to what you're saying, like just the balance of of life and social, even yes, all of that can affect your your music, and so yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:08

So yeah, I would tell myself to I guess to to be more balanced with with that, and yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:14

I think I've one thing uh one idea I think what about you?

SPEAKER_02 46:18

What what would you do? What about you?

SPEAKER_01 46:20

I I would say the same. I mean, I think I think one idea that um that I've heard that's kind of I could be controversial is that there's there's periods of imbalance in your life, right? Like when I was MD in um uh function 11, I was also MDing at my church, at Mega Church. So all of those things were a period of imbalance for me because time-wise, and I was working full-time as a as a teacher. So literally, when I reflect back on it, I'm like, I was burning myself out because I was literally working a lot. Man, how does he do it? I was doing a lot, I was working all day. Oh my god, yeah, we would have rehearsals in the evening, I would have to go to I would have to travel, you know, to gigs, to rehearsals. Then when when we had a full weekend, I would do a full weekend and then 6 a.m. uh uh sound check on Sunday. So literally seven days a week of work, you know what I mean? And and again, it was a period, but I did feel it towards the end of it, you know, and I and I think I think even like you start to get like a little bit uh uh not as sharp on certain things. And and I and I found people like, yo, man, you good? And I'll just be tired, you know what I'm saying? And so, you know, it wasn't like the skills diminish, it's just your your the way you show up. Well, you know, so my biggest thing for me would be just balance and time, don't fill up every second with something. I remember a period of time where I'd be like, oh yeah, I'm free on Monday and Tuesday. So, you know, you want to come to the studio Monday, and then somebody else can come on Tuesday, and now I filled up my whole week and I didn't have any rest time, I didn't have any workout time, I didn't have nothing, you know. I just was so absorbed in filling up time with music that I wasn't thinking about with my development as a person, you know what I'm saying? What's my development socially? Did I have a date night for my girlfriend or wife or whatever? You know, all of those things matter. They all matter, you know what I'm saying? And so if anything, I would say you gotta live, you gotta learn to live life in balance, you know, and and and every day you have to deposit something into some basic things. Where's your spirituality? Where's your physical? Where's your mental? Where's your social? All you have to make those deposits regularly. And and if you do them regularly, you can have the imbalance on the other end or or really focus and dial in on something else, but you know you've made enough deposits to carry you through the other thing.

SPEAKER_02 48:52

So yeah, I was just thinking about like when we're coming up and we're just like trying to be like our heroes, or we're we're reading about or like learning about these people, and they're like, oh, this guy practiced for like 12 hours a day. Right. And then you're like, all right, so if I do that, then I'll get that. Yeah, I'm cool, but it doesn't work like that because that that person's a different person. They might have had, you don't know, you don't know what kind of support structure they had, you don't know what kind of like family, you know, maybe they they work something out where they you know where where they they do stretches or whatever, like uh things that that that help them because if you try to do that, you might burn yourself out. You might there's there's a way to do these things, yeah. And it's just like it's possible you could definitely do it.

SPEAKER_01 49:37

You know, I I've found that you just have to create time for it. So more more so than just um saying, okay, I got 12 hours, let me just spend it. Like you you have to say, okay, I'm gonna have dedicated time for this. And if you don't do that, then your time will be filled up. People will call you, and now your time is filled up, or yeah, you gotta watch this thing, and now you don't you you you you're engaged in something else. So you have to create like sacred time for development. Uh I I heard a preacher say you gotta have time for maintenance, which is just staying keep keeping on the same level, and then development, which is building the next thing. So you gotta create time for both because sometimes you people get caught in one or the other, as opposed to really making sure you got both. So um what's a myth to you that like people say about music, which this might be one of them, uh that people say that turns out to not be true?

SPEAKER_02 50:33

Yeah, that's definitely one of them. Another one is um, yeah, like like the that you know, it's like they say in Hollywood, uh, or or you got it or you ain't that's not like a jazz person said that one. Mel, I think it was Mel Brooks or something like that. Somebody like that that said it. But it's like I you know, that's not true.

SPEAKER_01 50:54

It's like um You mean as far as being a musician or playing music?

SPEAKER_02 51:00

Yeah, yeah, or like yeah, like either like you you got it or you don't. Like, no, no, that's that's definitely a myth. Like uh I'll give you I'll give you an example. Like, I saw like a like a jazz musician that I that I admire, like a like a iconic person play, and and it was you know, I've seen them before, but it was just the one night when I saw them, and I was like, I was a little bit disappointed because I felt like they weren't really bringing it. Maybe they were just doing it for the money, and it and and I was a little bit like, oh wow, this is a person like that's one of my heroes, right? And this person like is like is on every record, like this person is like you know, huge. So, so it's not it's you gotta have it every time. So, and it was just that one time, like this person had decades and decades and decades of this and this and this and that, and I'm not taking anything away from him, but that night it didn't have a spark, like you it's so yeah, it's continuous attitude, and and whatever your environment you're in, no matter what where you reach, like you're always adjusting, you're always adapting, yeah. You're always like trying to be as present as possible. Yeah, and it's the same thing with talent, like you whatever it is, like your attitude and and your uh approach towards music, that's gonna that's gonna carry you further than like if if some if somebody's got some crazy chops when they're young or whatever. But if you're if you're just like, all right, this is the situation, I'm learning, I'm learning, I'm learning, you're gonna you're gonna be a monster. But if you're just like focusing on one thing and and you have some kind of preconception, then you know you're more likely to burn out. But it's just like so so the myth is that you people have like certain talents and they're gonna they're gonna do great. Right, right. Like, wow. No, like talent is a part of it. Talently, like, yeah, talent is great. If somebody's predisposed, they just have naturally are good at something. That's that's great, but like it's so much more than that. And it and it's it matters when you're young, when you're middle-aged, when you're older, you know, it's it's the whole time.

SPEAKER_01 53:06

Like, you gotta, yeah. No, I think I think you said a lot, man. I mean, so one of the things I think, and I teach my kids this is that everyone can engage in music in some some level, you know what I'm saying? Some some like I teach my students on a low level sometimes, well, like in the beginning of production. It's like, you know, you can create because you're creative, you could be creative, and with the right tools, you can create something that sounds amazing. Now, you didn't create all of those song sounds, but you can put them together, and so that's like a low level of production, whereas the higher level might be actually creating sounds or you know, or producing sounds with an instrument. But um, but again, I think that it's for everyone to engage in, and and they've made it so much easier now. I mean, I seek plugins where you can hum the bass line and it'll play a bass for you, you know what I mean? Like just crazy stuff. And again, nothing against it. Like we we engage in actual playing, so we know the the the um what the the great feelings that come out of actually playing on a gig and the stress of it, but also the fun in it, and you know, seeing people's faces react to it. Like you can't manufacture that, you can't manufacture playing a solo on a gig or or playing with a band and the band is locked in. You can't manufacture that. You can you can create uh something that sounds like that, but you can't manufacture the feeling, the internal gratification that comes with it. So that that part, whatever AI music they create, they will never be able to reproduce that. And that's more gratifying personally than any, you know, sound that somebody likes. I mean, eventually everybody's gonna be able to produce the same sound, or or at least a similar sound, except for those who actually know how to do it from here and express because that's really what you're doing, you're expressing. It's just like talking, like, yeah, you could you could have an AI translator, and now everybody can understand what you say, and you can understand what everybody else says, but you don't get all the feeling in that translation when you hear what he said was you know, like you hear a translation, you know what it says, but you don't feel it the same way. Who's the person behind it? Yeah, yeah, and what's their intention behind it, what's their uh attitude behind it, like you don't get that. So music is one place where you'll always, as a as a creator of music, a producer of music, and I mean, like actually playing, you'll be able to uh uh communicate and emote feelings, you know what I'm saying? So that's the special thing. But like that thing you said about talent. I mean, listen, that's a that's a revelation to some people. There's so many people with talent. Talent means nothing. Like, I mean, I want to say it means nothing, yeah, but it doesn't mean everything, which is what back in the day you thought, okay, you're talented or you don't have talent. Right. There's people with no talent or very low talent who outwork people with talent and they win in the same industry that the person in talent should have an advantage. And they would if they worked, yeah, you know what I'm saying? So it's all about the work, work ethic.

SPEAKER_02 56:22

Yeah, and like you said, you have the the access now. So it's real. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 56:27

That's that's why, again, even if somebody doesn't have the talent, they still have the access to put in work. And so, you know, I mean, listen, I got students that I teach piano, and they want to go learn like this other song that they can't read yet, but they're like, oh, but on YouTube it tells me where the notes are, you know what I mean? So they still can access it, regardless of learning the basics and the you know, the the foundation. But I'm like, let's learn the foundation so you have an access point to anything. That's what I want to give you. I don't want you to just be like, okay, I could play this song and then I can't, but I can't open up a score and play another song. I want you to be able to say, okay, now I know I got the foundation, I can open up anything and play anything. Yeah, you know what I mean? So listen, man, I appreciate you you being here, bro. Um where can people see you? You you have a regular place where you're playing where people can see you?

SPEAKER_02 57:21

Yeah, um, I'm gonna be at Smalls, so Jasper. You guys always have smalls in the in the in the West Village, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's uh I've been going there since so long. Like it's like a very it's like the headquarters of stuff. Catch me at Smalls May 9th. Oh, nice. Yeah, um I'm I also play at uh Arthur's Tavern. Okay. Um, so we can look out for that for those dates with a band called like Cats. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like Latin jazz stuff, and uh yeah, just uh you can find me online, uh say hello. What's your what's your handle? So they could get some. My name Misha Josephs. Okay, M-I-S-H-A-J-O-S-E-P-H-S. Okay. So come and say hi, post stuff, and uh come to one of my my shows or yeah, anything.

SPEAKER_01 58:10

No, man. So thank you so much to my brother, Misha Josephs. Mikhail Fatkiev. That's how I call him his government name. But yeah, so you know, uh, and and many blessings to your brother. Obviously, you know, we're gonna work together again, and you know, but thank you so much for coming.

SPEAKER_00 58:29

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