THE MUSICIAN'S SHED PODCAST: JAMES BISCUIT ROUSE (Full interview)

In this powerhouse episode of The Musician’s Shed, Samar Newsome sits down with the multi-talented James "Biscuit" Rouse. Known across the industry as the ultimate pocket drummer, a soaring vocalist, and a master musical director, Biscuit breaks down his incredible journey from the woodshed to the world stage.

From driving the rhythm section for Ms. Lauryn Hill and executing high-stakes television arrangements with legendary MD Ray Chew, to bringing the thunderous energy required by rock icons Living Colour, Biscuit’s career is a masterclass in versatility. This conversation pulls back the curtain on what it really means to shed with intention, remain adaptable, and build a sustainable career at the highest levels of commercial music.

Key Highlights

• The Anatomy of the Shed: Biscuit discusses how "shedding" evolves as you mature. It shifts from purely shedding technical chops to shedding for musicality, endurance, and learning how to serve the song rather than your own ego.
• The Art of Multi-Tasking: Balancing the roles of a premier drummer and a lead/background vocalist. Biscuit shares his secrets on maintaining pocket while delivering flawless vocal performances simultaneously.
• Navigating the Legends: * Ms. Lauryn Hill: The intense preparation, musical spontaneity, and deep focus required to back one of hip-hop and neo-soul's most meticulous visionaries.
  • Ray Chew: Learning the high-pressure world of television, award shows, and large-ensemble musical direction where accuracy and professionalism are non-negotiable.
  • Living Colour: Stepping into high-energy rock environments and understanding how to bring heavy, aggressive dynamics while maintaining a soulful groove.
• Mindset & Professionalism: Why your attitude in the green room, your reliability, and your mental resilience matter just as much as—if not more than—what you play on stage.

Key Takeaways

Topic | The "Biscuit" PerspectiveVersatility | Don't box yourself into one genre. To survive at the top, you must speak the musical language of rock, R&B, hip-hop, and gospel fluently.
The Pocket | Flashy fills might get you likes on social media, but an unshakeable, solid groove is what keeps you hired by major artists.
Preparation | True professionalism means knowing the music so deeply that you can adapt instantly when the arrangement changes on the fly.
Longevity | Protect your body, guard your ears, and treat people with respect. Your reputation is your currency.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:15

Hey, this is Samar Newsom, and this is the Musician Shed Podcast. I'm here with another episode, and I'm so glad I got one of my brothers. I done met this guy 30 years ago. Yeah. At least 30 years ago we met uh in Princeton, in college in Princeton, at Westminster Choir College. And you know, what we were doing then, you know, was some fun stuff back then, but like we've both gone on and done amazing things, and today I get to share one of my friends, Mr. James Biscuit Rouse. James, what's good, brother?

SPEAKER_03 0:48

All is well, all is well, all is well.

SPEAKER_02 0:50

So so we're coming, we just had a gig together. So, you know, it was it was pretty convenient to be here, but I appreciate you being here. Glad to be here. Glad to be here. Uh tell tell the people who you are. I mean, I know I've I've seen you on multiple different places on the stage because you know, you do a little bit of everything. When I met you, you were singing, we were singing together, but I know you as a prolific drummer, and you were a drummer back then too. So tell tell the people what you what you do, what you've done, and where you've been.

SPEAKER_04 1:19

So, as he said, my name is James Biscuit Rouse, originally from Philadelphia, residing in North Jersey now. Um, I sing, play drums, produce, music direct, tell jokes at people. That's always dead. Uh yeah, you know, yeah, music.

SPEAKER_02 1:46

Music, yeah, yeah. I mean, listen, so one of the things, of course, we're talking about the musician shed, we're talking about shedding. And these days, there's a lot of different ways people shed. Like people see their favorite musicians, you know, playing everywhere. They could basically access them a lot. Um, it's crazy. I was thinking about something earlier about um, and I talk about things like the pocket and just things like that, and we'll get into that a little bit later. But let's first talk about like what how did you get your start in music, period? What inspired you? What you know, what got you into it?

SPEAKER_04 2:22

Church, you know, TK Kid, you know. Um always in the musician section from that I can remember, my parents would be like, Oh, he's in the musician section, I'd be gone. All my cousins is doing normal kids stuff. I'm with the older musicians, you know. Right, right, right. So that and um seeing the whinings and Vanessa Bell Armstrong as my first concert uh as a kid. Wow. And I was like, I want to do that, I want to do that, I want to do that.

SPEAKER_02 2:58

That's amazing. Yeah. So where that was in Philly? In Philly, okay.

SPEAKER_04 3:03

They played at Drexel University.

SPEAKER_02 3:05

Okay, dope. So now Philly, I I tell people, Philly's Philly's different. I mean, I got to play for Jill Scott um uh multiple times in Philly, and it's just it's just such a legit music scene, you know what I mean? Like, um, and that was my first encounters with with being there, you know. I was a young musician, got to play on some open mics with her, and again, I got to see where her skills was, and like just and she was just fun, she was just having fun. It wasn't even like a set, it was like just play and I'm gonna just freestyle, you know what I'm saying? And that was a vibe. And and apparently this was a vibe because I went to several things like this, and it was like just kind of upscale people there, it was just like a chill joint. One was like an art gallery, one was in somebody's house, you know, like the nice mansion house and they had tents outside and all this kind of stuff. So I mean, Philly, and then when I worked later, when I worked and I worked for my for Dr. Dumpson in Philly, and I could hear an organist practicing jazz organ up the street, you know what I'm saying? Like it's just it just lives music there. Like, what was that environment like just being surrounded by music, basically?

SPEAKER_04 4:20

Um, for me, it was just natural because it was always there. Yeah, and it didn't seem nothing special because yeah, you can almost take it for granted, and it's just like you really don't see that as much unless it's like uh guys and females that are together in church or churches that are combined together or are families that play. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Every now and then you might see like people in a neighborhood that play together, but for the most part, like like that conclusively, conclusively close. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, like that. Okay. But it was it was for me, I I would say it was it was definitely the foundation.

SPEAKER_02 5:10

Okay, good. That's good. That's good, good word for that. Um I mean you look at successful bands like The Roots out of Philly, and I recall one thing, one of my music directors when I was in a band, basically he he he was paying attention to stuff that they were doing. He was like, yo, they they just get together and just chill one one day a week. No music, just getting to vibe with each other, just hanging out with each other, like being good basically friends. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:41

So yeah, I mean, like if you're gonna be in a band together, you might as well like the person. Right, right, right. I mean, like, I you know, I've been in situations where I didn't like two or three people, but we begin to check. Right, right, right. So you just but it makes a difference if everybody likes each other, everybody can joke together, and you know, it's not saying that we're not gonna have disagreements, but we have a general respect, yeah, you know, and friendship, you know, it makes a whole world of difference. It makes the music sound better, it makes it feel what comes across that much easier.

SPEAKER_02 6:13

No, for sure. For sure. What what was uh a big challenge you remember in one of the bands or gigs or something that you played on that that kind of like stood out to you like, oh, this is a crazy challenge right here. That almost probably it could have not been every gig. It's almost every gig.

SPEAKER_04 6:30

Every gig got a challenge, it's like every gig has a challenge, you know, and it's just trying to do your best.

SPEAKER_02 6:35

So no big challenges that ever stood out.

SPEAKER_04 6:38

Like I almost expect the challenge to happen. Okay. Because it's like, you know, if you get comfortable, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:49

That's when it's going, something probably gonna happen.

SPEAKER_04 6:52

Yeah, so walk in confident, but you know, just don't get comfortable and don't get lax.

SPEAKER_02 6:59

Is there any gigs you just like? I wanted to walk off this gig. Don't say every gig.

SPEAKER_04 7:05

I'm not gonna say yeah, but you know, yeah. But it's it's part of it's part of the game.

SPEAKER_02 7:12

I can't believe it. Yeah. What what was like your favorite gig you ever played on?

SPEAKER_04 7:18

Living Color, filling in on Living Color. Okay, Screaming Headless Torsos, being one of the drummers as a legacy, and Screaming Headless Torsos. Um anytime I would play with Ray Chu. Okay, yeah. And that in any of his configurations, uh, definitely Lauren Hill. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was always a challenge, but I I for me, I'm weird. I like the challenge.

SPEAKER_02 7:46

Yeah, yeah, you're into the challenge.

SPEAKER_04 7:47

It it pulls something out of me. It's like, okay, even if I have to revisit a couple times to figure it out, but I like it's always something that's gonna make me better. If it's gonna make me better, I'm for it.

SPEAKER_02 7:58

It's sharpening you. Yeah, but you gotta resolve it.

SPEAKER_04 8:01

You gotta, yeah, you have to resolve it. Yeah. And if the bad part is coming on other gigs where you don't have that push or challenge, and the artist is not in the trenches with you.

SPEAKER_02 8:15

Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_04 8:16

And it's like, take you serious.

SPEAKER_02 8:20

No, I hear you, I hear you.

SPEAKER_04 8:22

You know, you say you want XYZ, but you're not doing what lead needs to lead up to XYZ.

SPEAKER_02 8:26

Wow. You know, that could be that could be frustrating. Yeah. So so how was how was your now Lauren Hill one of the biggest artists in the world, you know? Um, Fuji's uh Miss Education, so you know, over what probably 20 something, 30 maybe millions now. Yeah what what was that experience like working with a legend like that? She kept me on my toes. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 8:53

All the time. Yeah. Um I'm grateful for the experience. Um, we still keep in contact. Okay, good. Um, but yeah, it definitely kept me on to Miss Hill, we should say. I call her boss lady. I got she wouldn't let nobody else call her. I could get away with that. Yeah. But um, yeah, she she always kept me on my toes, and she's very musical. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, she has some wild ideas, and you just gotta figure out how to piece it together.

SPEAKER_02 9:23

Yeah, how to make it work, you know.

SPEAKER_04 9:25

And be like, how did you hear this sample over this sample and a big masterpiece like, okay, you know.

SPEAKER_02 9:35

Now a friend of mine was very close with her growing up, and he told me that um she she basically lived in the Stevie Donnie Hathaway world, like lived in it. Like, yeah, and Roberta, of course, you know, was a big influence on her, and just really like and Bob. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, you know, she she was really into that vibe. And and it came out. I think I think she represents first of all, she was an incredible rapper and singer and actress. You know, she pretty much had a lot of, had probably still has, but I mean, just seeing it, like I would love to see it again. Just but I mean, she don't got nothing to prove to nobody. That's what I you know. Once you've done it, you've done it. You know what I'm saying? You don't have to prove nothing. But um, of course, she was young getting those things. So, of course, you you there's always an expectation that you'll see more of it. But whether we do or not, it doesn't matter. Um, that experience was was what it was supposed to be. And you know, um, what was what was a good lesson you learned from that? You said stand on your toes, but you also said some places don't even need you to have that.

SPEAKER_04 10:40

It made me appreciate those long crazy hour rehearsals. And again, I like that stuff because it builds camaraderie with the band. Yeah. And we're working together to make a picture and tell a story. You know, she she's one of the artists that I appreciate that the show was about a storyline. Right, right, right. How we connected the dots between the songs, transitions, everything was a storyline. Right. It could be the same songs, but uh the story might have changed, the picture of the story might have changed, but it was always a storyline, the through line that came through that made it make sense, yeah. Yeah, that's you know and was everything was very musical, yeah, you know, different genres. She she definitely opened my mind and my ears to hear things differently.

SPEAKER_02 11:35

Okay, you know, yeah, and I appreciate that. Yeah, yeah, no, that's important. I mean, listen, we we if you get an opportunity to work with a master, I mean I've worked with a few, so I understand some things from working with them. Good and bad. You know what I'm saying? They they come with good and bad, but but in doing so, you can get lessons if you're paying attention. Exactly. You know what I'm saying? Like just to like at the concert tonight.

SPEAKER_04 11:57

Yeah, they were little notes. I was like, oh, that yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:02

You can you can critique it, and as a musical director, also you you can notice what you need to notice and say, you know, and if it were you, you would have conducted it this way and stuff like that. But absolutely, but you know, you you you take what you can from masters when you get in their presence, because you know, yeah, everybody's not fortunate to be be around masters. So um who are some like who is somebody you wish you got to work with? Like you never got to work with, but you wish you did. That's alive, it could be alive or there, because I mean if they pass, you you probably won't get to only and glory.

SPEAKER_04 12:42

Hey, alive. Um I would like to work with Stevie again. That was one time. I would say Teddy Riley. Anita Baker. Yeah. That was one time, but no. Although they g they give they're trying to give her a bad reputation out here. Man, I can care less, man. I'm about the music.

SPEAKER_02 13:37

Yeah, true, true.

SPEAKER_04 13:38

And any I I'm like this. If you're about your business and you're about the music, it's gonna be somebody that's gonna hate because you you you it especially if you know what you want. Right. And working with artists that know what they want, not guessing, ooh, skip to my lube. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And thinking this plus that, but then doing this, and then you'd be like, and are there and conscious about what it is. Yeah. Screw y'all. I'll I yeah, I'll take that.

SPEAKER_02 14:11

I'll take that. You take you take somebody being uh intentional and and specific about what they want. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 14:18

Intentional conviction to the parts, yeah, yeah. Um definitely Fred Hammond. I would love to have that. Yeah, Fred. That was a great experience. Um if he was alive, I wish I could play play with George Duke. Yeah. Dope. Yeah, it's it's a lot, it's a lot of people. Especially trying to think off the top of my head.

SPEAKER_02 14:46

I'm like, so so many people. So so one of the things we try to do is try to give like some some good words of advice and and and and just like to the younger generations and um even to older, you know, generations, just like people who are still working or frustrated, you know. They are always hear these uh I'm frustrated now. We are uh you always hear these uh uh uh descriptions of musicians as starving artists, and there's a lot of people who start off starving. Some people, you know, they just it certain aspects of the business have certain intricacies to getting in. But I find as a musician, there's several ways where you can express, there's several ways where you can actually be effective. Um, what have been some of your most lucrative uh avenues for as a musician? Because you know, we all gig, but some of them are better than others.

SPEAKER_04 15:46

Corporate dance. You know, corporate dance have saved my behind many a times when I haven't been out on the road. Yeah, I think this has been the longest stint. I haven't been out for like long periods, for at least six months on the road, you know. You know, little stuff here and there, like little weekends here, you know, maybe two weeks, but this is the longest I've been home home. Wow. You know, my wife was like, get out the house when you get out the house, when you go back on tour.

SPEAKER_02 16:20

I'm like, so what was the longest you were out at one time? A whole year. Okay, nice. And what was that? What what was the challenges of being out for a year in terms of like family, uh work at home, all that kind of stuff?

SPEAKER_04 16:37

Well, work, I was my check my check was coming every week. So my wife did kids, she's like, just stay with the check, go. Yeah, just keep the ball, play the bells. Um, you know, we stay connected, yeah. You know, and that's very important if you manage it. And your wife is a musician, yeah. My wife is a musician as well, so she understands. Yeah, you know, but she's still a woman. So you're still a man. I'm still a man. Hallelujah. Glory. Glory. But staying connected, you know. Yeah. Staying connected to family, because anything can happen on the road, you know. Absolutely. Mentally, physically, whatever. You know, staying connected to a foundation of who you are, not getting it's easy to get lost in the hype of, oh, I'm playing with some such such and such, and let them give you a pink slip, and you like, ooh, yeah, and it happens all the time. Yeah, and it could be for the the simplest thing, management changes, yeah, and they want to save money.

SPEAKER_02 17:34

Yeah, it had nothing to do with the artists, nothing. But it's a narrative that whoever is in charge of being making that call. Like, I'm gonna bring my people in for you. Yeah, yeah. And I got something else. I got another idea. Yeah. Just because uh you stepped on their toe or something, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 17:48

Been there, and it's like, okay, piggy feelings up, okay. We're grown. We gotta, and it doesn't feel good, but you know, in hindsight, it's part of the process, right? You know, you're not always gonna be up on top.

SPEAKER_02 18:03

No one of the things we talk about is pivoting, and that's one of those um uh situations where you gotta pivot. You know what I'm saying? You on the road, you you you work in, you're in a situation, and everything's good. You know, you got the relationship you need to get you there, you have the skills to do the job, and then a personality thing or just something that has nothing to do with your ability to do it or your your job that you're doing changes that. What was a pivot like for you? And you know, because I it wasn't easy.

SPEAKER_04 18:38

I'll be I'll be honest, it wasn't it wasn't easy because I got comfortable. Yeah, that's that's the problem. You get comfortable and it's hard not to, though. And yeah, my my brain is was is trained to gotta do this every day. This is what I gotta do every day. And it's like when I don't have that, it's like what do I do with myself?

SPEAKER_02 18:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:59

And then the frustration, then you get something else, and then everybody else doesn't want to move the certain way to get the to the end goal.

SPEAKER_02 19:07

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_04 19:07

And you but you still do what you gotta do, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:09

You know, but you but there's a frustration when you work at one level and the next place is not there, it's not that level. You gotta yeah, I mean, like now your goal is to try to uh bridge the gap, but sometimes this is the if they don't want to go. This is the level, right?

SPEAKER_04 19:26

Calm down, right? Right, right. But I want that, but I don't I would like that, but I'm not I'm really not willing to put in the word I'm not I don't want to do the things that get me there.

SPEAKER_02 19:35

No, no, that's that's a fact, and that's a I think that's a natural frustration because you could see how to get there. You you've you've seen it, you've been there.

SPEAKER_04 19:46

Oh, I got even one better. When you leave, they start implementing what you said to do. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 19:51

And you be like, right, we couldn't do that when I was there. Nah, it's crazy, you know.

SPEAKER_04 19:57

But you know, it's powerful of course, and it's it it also lets you know that oh, I'm not crazy.

SPEAKER_02 20:04

Yeah, because what I was saying was what was needed to work, right? But for whatever reason, you know, over time different things happen. Your your voice doesn't hit as hard. You you you was the new person at one point, and now you're not, you know what I'm saying? And so for I mean, it's just natural, natural course of life, unfortunately, but it doesn't really, you have to be sure on who you are, you have to be sure in the skills that you have and the talents you have and the work that you have. Because it's talent is great, but without the work ethic, it don't matter, right? You know what I'm saying? You ain't gonna you can't stay there.

SPEAKER_04 20:38

I will say it um it also forced me to write, start writing more and pursue being an artist. So that's part of the benefit, you know. And you know, I I was just out with Living Color, and it was like, yeah, you need to be writing more, you need to focus on you being an artist. Yeah, still play with other people, but find the balance, but you need to definitely be the artist because it's like everybody doesn't have it.

SPEAKER_02 21:07

Exactly. You know, some people some people are just a side man, yeah. You you're you're a drummer, it's fine, and that's look, they're great at it, yeah. So that's fine. But when you like, like you and I, again, we we we met each other singing, yep. You know what I'm saying? And you're an amazing singer. Um, you know, I've got to hear you on a high level, and so I know what you got, but then I saw you just drumming for years. I didn't see you singing, but I know you still can sing, but you know, so so it's one of those things where even for me, I had years where I just was like, I I fell in love with playing so much, and I I wanted to aspire in that. I I sing here and there, but I didn't take it seriously as when I had to pivot. When I had to pivot, it's like, you know what? God is like, okay, you've been wasting time, not wasting time, but like, you haven't been doing this thing. Yeah, there's other parts I want to show. You yeah, and be able to bridge them both together. And literally, I'll be honest, when I when I embarked on putting out my first record, that's when things when I had to pivot. It's almost like that's when I lived above you. Yeah. In that department. It's almost like that was when things shifted without me wanting them to shift. Because I'm like, I like this this this comfort that I have in this situation, great situation. But once you embark, like the thing about faith and the thing about action is that what we ask God for, this is what I'm finding. When we start acting on it, oh God is like, okay, I gotta shift this thing because if I don't, there's no way you could be successful over here. Right. Like you are comfortable, I gotta let these people take discomfort away. Yeah, you gotta you gotta feel a little discomfort to really push you where you're going. And that's that, listen, it took some time to really understand that. Yeah, because it's frustrating when you when you're already on a level and you're doing it, you're doing it on a high level, because we've been on high levels. And then it's like, yeah, nah, we we got to shift. But it's it's again, everybody starts at one in whatever thing they do, right? It's always a step one. And so when you're embarking into being an artist, you gotta start at step one. Yeah, and sometimes you gotta be taken from your comfort to really feel that step one because you gotta embrace that. Yeah, it it's frustrating if you like on step 10 on this other thing, but it's like, no, here you're on step one.

SPEAKER_04 23:29

And some people get that that that I'm going next door to it. Yeah, but a lot of times, nine times out of ten, you gotta fall down a couple steps to get to it. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 23:39

Um, I I was at a uh um retreat and Jason Nelson was talking about his journey as an artist, and he was talking about basically how they started 20 years ago or before this day, and they were just getting nominations for Grammy at Stellar Awards and stuff like that. But it's like, yo, we had number one records all along the way, but we weren't getting acknowledged. But he's but he said he decided to take, he called it taking the stairs instead of the elevator. Basically, we're gonna take the long way, even though it's gonna take longer, it's gonna have more, it's gonna hit differently. And that's the truth. Like, um, you can have a number one hit right now, and people not know who you are. I talked to a music executive and she told me that. I was like, yo, I got I'm I'm number 28 on the chart. She was like, that's great, and I hope you go further. But these days, the way the radio charts are, you could be number one and still don't and still don't have no audience. Right. Like people will know you on the radio. Yeah, you'll probably get some calls, you'll probably get some gigs, but you don't have a core audience base that you built because those labels back in the day, they they went through a property. They curated the artists. Yeah, yeah. Now they don't they give them time for you to sit with them. They went through a circuit, like you gotta go on this radio station, you gotta do the public publicity story. So, I mean, artists don't do that now. Artists will blow up on TikTok tomorrow and go viral. And there's nobody nobody on there wanna like they don't check for you except for the time they saw you on there. They ain't looking for you.

SPEAKER_04 25:15

No artist relationship to to handle you, it's a good start, teach you, it's a great start, actually.

SPEAKER_02 25:21

But you gotta learn, you gotta know or have a team or have a machine in place to really uh capitalize on that. Yeah, um, what's now to become a professional musician, which you know both of us kind of understand? What is what did you have to now start at some point in your shedding? Like, because we talk about shedding, talk about uh uh uh practice routines. What did you have to do earlier on to kind of get to that professional level?

SPEAKER_04 25:55

Well, definitely hanging out and meeting people, you know, being friendly, yeah, not being a jerk, not being arrogant. But again, people want people they can relate to. Yeah, you know, that's one thing. Um, uh another thing is learning the music. Yeah. Knowing some, know how to play the songs, yeah, the right grooves. It's not about drummer. Yeah, it's not about you. Yeah, yeah. It's it can never be about you, yeah. Unless they say, All right. It's about you.

SPEAKER_02 26:25

Yeah, now it's your turn. I say it all the time. If it's your moment, take it. Be ready for your moment. Uh, I just saw Glasper, he's this thing I've seen a couple of times. He's just like, yo, everybody can play, everybody can play fast. And he's just like, what else you got? He said, you need to have your stuff in the holster, so when it's time to pull it out, you can. But you need to learn how to play together, and and that's a lost art, man. I mean, uh, I've been on plenty of gigs and and or be at concerts and see people, and you notice right away people who are not locked into playing together, right? Locked into listening to each other, you know. When we sing, we listen to each other. Yeah, tonight with a lot of listening. But bands don't always do that, you know what I'm saying? Like, honestly, you know, critiquing the band, you know, it's ain't nothing crazy. But the this band we we saw tonight, one of the issues with them was you could tell they don't play together, right? And that's a problem with just any band. Like, I mean, unless you're just so seasoned that you know to follow the direction of at least one person and listen. I I saw um Victor Wooten had a uh joint where he was doing a clinic, I think it was at Nam or something, and he was just like, he told the drummer, like, go back, play again, but listen to everybody, make sure you hear everybody. And when you listen, it's more fun. Music is more fun when everybody's playing together. I mean, band, that's what bands are. The best bands we know that we that we love growing up. They're listening to each other. They're they're locked into each other, right? Like they're not even, they they they they they could they know each other's. We ain't gotta do a child's conversation.

SPEAKER_04 28:01

I would say the best thing is quartet music. Mmm, mmm. Quartet quartet. Because everybody's listening, and you gotta sit on that groove for God knows how long. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And don't move. It ain't going nowhere. Yeah, exactly. Hymn books being thrown at you if you move. Don't move.

SPEAKER_02 28:17

Nah, you're right, you're right. But even feel good. Even funk, yeah. I mean funk funk literally, when you really take apart a record, and I I learned this when I was playing with um like corporate and and and weddings and stuff like that. When we were doing the funk joint, the EWF sets and stuff like that. The I was like, I was amazed at how little the piano was doing because I'm like, yo, I'm used to playing these 10-finger chords all the time. Nine times out of ten. It's like three fingers, bro. Yep. And because well, when you think scientifically, it's like it's a band, it has horns, right? Which means the horns have a length. Frequency. Exactly. They have a place, guitar has a place, frequency, bass has a place, drums have a place. Like everybody has their place, and when you understand it, and when you put things in place like that, yo, it's it just everything, you can hear everything. That's the thing. I I I was telling uh uh one of my band members at my church now. I'm like, listen, when you get it right and you're playing off each other, you can hear everything. It hits so much. You don't have to play loud for me to hear you. You play in the right place, and I'll hear you. Everybody will hear you. And so I was like, listen, play off me. If I'm playing in these frequencies, I don't need the guitar to play those frequencies. I need you here. I need you to play, find some rhythm. You know, find a different space to occupy so that all of us can hear it. Just like mixing. You know, when you mix in records, the same thing. It's like we gotta put stuff in places where it's gonna be hurt. So, what what um what's some advice you would give yourself now, your your teenage self when you were just starting? If you if you can do it again. Stay in the practice room longer. Stay a couple another hour.

SPEAKER_04 30:03

Yeah, um, I would tell myself that too. I hated the practice room when I was in college. Um, yeah, stay in the practice room longer, you know, focus more on your reading.

SPEAKER_02 30:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 30:17

Um and play the songs more. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Play the songs. My first tour, um, touring gig was JT Taylor from Coolin' the Gang. Oh, yeah. And it was definitely about playing the funk and playing those parts. You ain't gotta do a bunch of other stuff, except for the transition. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was the big thing. Whenever you do something, make it intentional, but in the right places. Yeah. Anything else is what it's on the record. Yeah. And there's nothing wrong with expressing yourself if it's intentional together. Yeah. And if it's leading to as a build-up to something, yeah. And you know, um, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:04

I always talk about one of my favorite now. So you had a stint. I remember you were playing at the Village Underground for years. Yeah. One of my favorite drummers back then, back even probably before you were playing there, was Nat Townsend. Oh my gosh. Nat was like a master at not only playing the pocket, but playing a groove within the pocket. Yeah. Like, I was just like, this guy has a whole nother drum machine thing going on inside his pocket. And like, and again, he's he's he's such a a freak of nature, but not super humble and super like simple. He wasn't going crazy, he wasn't trying to be heard over anybody. He was just finding a place. Like I said, like, there's a place, even, even as a keyboard, it's like if I'm playing the pocket, I'm playing a pattern, there's a place in a in a simple transition from this chord to that chord that I might have a moment that I can take. And if I understand that and I take it, it's noticeable, but it's not it's not stealing the moment from anything else. And that's the thing. It's like are you painting a picture? Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I'm just putting a little color right here, yep. Like Bob Ross, a little tree right here.

SPEAKER_04 32:15

Take a little shade right there. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 32:17

And people don't understand that. I mean, like, I think when you're young, because I was young and wanted to I practice, I practiced the scale. Let me play the scale, you know, and you're playing it over and over and over again. It's like, okay, what else you got? You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 32:29

And so So, prime example, I I did some tour runs with Michael Henderson, bass player. Okay, and I was my thing was all right, tell me stories about you playing with Miles. He like Miles would always tell him, Don't bring that ish to the stage, y'all rehearse. I don't want to hear that. What that's what's in your heart? What are you feeling right now? What's what's the moment dictating to you? I'm like, but shouldn't I pull pull that? No. Shouldn't we shouldn't we do what we rehearsed? Yeah. You already know what we rehearse. So now you can let's let's let's bring about the moment. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, you know, what you did yesterday is not might not make sense for the gig today because the audience might be in a different headspace. Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_02 33:18

You know, it's it's funny. That reminds me of a story. Um, I have my boy Dana Saray on here, producer, songwriter, like some of the amazing songwriting. But he was one of his famous things is he produced with Ty Trippett, he was the organist and he produced. And he said they would when they were touring with Ty, Ty would just mess up the settings on their keyboards and say, play with these settings. And he's like, No, that's not no, play with whatever the sound that is. That I just messed it up. Play with that sound. Like, let me see how you make that work to him and to him in Paris. Like, change, and I mean, it forced you to think outside the box, though. Like, again, you know the song, you know the chord changes, you know the music, but now how will you interpret it with this new sound? And I think that that's that's that genius level, you know. Like, like, let me let me let's let's go beyond just knowing the song, which I think knowing the song is is underrated already, right? That's some people try to show up with not knowing the song at first, you know what I mean? To me, that's step one. Now you got the song, now let's explore outside of this song.

SPEAKER_04 34:29

Yeah, exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 34:31

What um you've played with jazz artists, you've played with Lauren Hill, um, and I'm sure many others. I'm sure like Philly scene, I'm sure you play with probably almost everybody there. Not everybody, but good platform. But a good good amount. Um what if you could pinpoint anything? What is the magic? What's the sauce of Philly? Like, why is Philly so special musically? I don't know if it's got a history too, but I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 35:02

You know, it's not the somebody else asked me that question, and I'm like, I don't know. It's like new New York musicians, yeah. Or New York got their own thing. Yeah, it's like every city got their own thing.

SPEAKER_02 35:14

Yeah, what and it's like what makes them like you know, I now I always applaud, and I I talk about this with other people who I've had on here, people who come from a different place. Like you're from Philly, but I saw you in a residency in New York, and I've seen you playing for artists in New York, New Jersey, you know what I'm saying? And not not that those are very far away from each other, but they still are not the same. Right.

SPEAKER_04 35:46

I think everybody is listening and taking their own approach.

SPEAKER_02 35:57

Like explain that.

SPEAKER_04 35:59

Okay, so funk. Funk could be anywhere, yeah, but a funk in Ohio has a different hit on it versus coming from Oakland, yeah, versus coming from New York, yeah, versus coming from Chicago or Philly, wherever. Right, right. The influence. Everybody has a different um language that they speak.

SPEAKER_02 36:23

I mean, example, rap. You take something like rap. East Coast had a sound, West Hills had a whole different sound, different influences, everything. And then you got the South. Then the South had it like, oh, we got something too from Midwest, you know what I'm saying? Right. So so that's a perfect example. I mean, just just or you go to Europe.

SPEAKER_04 36:43

Yeah, they got there's definitely a whole different vibe to it. Yeah, yeah, true. You know, true. So it's like I would say experiences.

SPEAKER_02 36:53

Yeah, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_04 36:54

Every city, every country has its own experience, and you bring that prime example, you know, Faye Lakudi. His biggest influence was James Brown.

unknown 37:05

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 37:06

So if you listen to it, it's like you can hear James Brown in it with African blues.

SPEAKER_03 37:13

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 37:14

You know, and how their microbeats are are shifted around in that funk. It's still there, but it's still there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then us being different accents and stuff. Yeah, and us being black, that's that's in our DNA. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We feel that already. You know.

SPEAKER_02 37:38

No, that makes sense. That makes sense. So what what was what was a let me think, because we we don't we're not discussed everything. Um what is it like being married to a musician? How's that?

SPEAKER_04 37:56

Uh well as my wife says, I've messed her up with she can't stand with other string players. Can't play in time. Cause I force her. I've I have forced her in the beginning, like she would be mad at me. Play it again. You're not you're not in time. Why are you so behind the beat?

SPEAKER_01 38:26

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 38:27

And playing with orchestras, having a rhythm section in front of the orchestra, I I couldn't figure out like why are they so behind the beat? It's yeah, it's an uh in eight for classical musicians, they because they're waiting for the conductor, yeah, and it's like 40-50 of them. Yeah, yeah, a bit of a and there's a delay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I forced her to like, okay, if you're gonna be a solo violinist, you gotta lock in. So, you know, Karen Briggs, I love every time I get the chance to play with her, because she's she's a um classical musician, but her jazz intelligence says, I need to be here with everybody else. Yeah, you know. Um being married to a musician, it's always on for me.

SPEAKER_01 39:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 39:24

I I don't turn it off. I don't turn it off. I don't know how she deals with me. I'll be honest, I don't know how she deals with me. Uh, because it's always on. And then I we have a we have an almost 10-year-old kid that's the same wavelength as me. Oh, and he's always on. Yeah. So I mean, yeah. I don't know. I'll be in my own world. I'll be honest. I'll be in my own world. He's like, eh.

SPEAKER_02 39:50

Nah, I hear you. You know. I mean, y'all got two different paths musically. Yeah. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_04 39:54

Well, not not too much.

SPEAKER_02 39:56

Well, do y'all do y'all intersect? Like, do y'all do gigs together?

SPEAKER_04 39:59

Every now and then. Okay. Every now and then. But because most times I'm gigging when she's gigging.

SPEAKER_02 40:05

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what I'm saying. That's why I meant by separate paths. Like, you're on, you have your gigs. Yeah. Yeah. She has her gig, like you have a church gig, she got a church gig. You got your band, she has her own band, you know, like so. You guys have things that are like, I don't want to say they're diametrically opposed from each other, but they're different. You know what I mean? Right. Different approaches, different repertoire, probably. Yeah. So, you know, what what's what's the basis of the music you make? Because you now make your own stuff as an artist. Tell us about you as an artist.

SPEAKER_04 40:35

Uh my music is everything I grew up listening to on the radio in Philly. Okay. So it's an abyss. You know, management is like, how do you classify yourself? I'm like, funk, soul, RB, blues, jazz, fusion, gospel, uh, RB. You know, and it's like, no, you can't be all that. I said, why can't I? It's what's it's in me. I mean, yeah, for business purposes, I have to narrow it down.

SPEAKER_02 41:08

Right, industry-wise, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, but only because they they people want to be able to, like, not people, but like, let's say you in your mind is like, I'm all these things, which is fine. Yeah. When you present it though, they got it. They're like, okay, what catalog do we put it in? Right. What section of the record store back in the day, or on Spotify do we put it with? Right. What playlist do we put it on? Because if it don't have a definite, then they like, all right, cool. Then we don't want to touch them. We're gonna put it on world music or something. You know, something where we we don't classify it the same way. But I think there's some there's some value to like I guess narrowing it down. I remember back in the day, Toney, the artist, he was a gospel artist, but he put out an album and it had different classifications to it. It was like hip or I don't know, rap, let's say, and RB and gospel and stuff. And while I get it, I understand the concept. I just think that sometimes our genius as musicians can overwhelm the consumer that we make in music for.

SPEAKER_04 42:09

Because we are making our expression because that's what it was happening before. And the machine, good and bad, wants control.

SPEAKER_02 42:19

But but but I but I will but I'll I'll push on this because if you think about so think about I always I always have a conversation every I on my wall at work at where I teach, I have Dr. Dre on one side, and I have Quincy Jones on the other side. Uh-huh. And Dr. Dre has a uh a quote about Quincy Jones on his side, and it's basically talking about he was amazed by the fact that Quincy Jones had his biggest hit at 50. And I think that's that's incredible. Again, an inspiration for students because it's like my goal is to get you to love music and to be competent in creating and producing it. It doesn't matter where you go in that. You could you could be the next Kanye, you could be somebody who's a bedroom producer for yourself. It doesn't matter. Music is an expression at whatever level you want to make it, you know what I'm saying? And I just hope that students will go on and do it, period. You know, I don't care how how big you do it. Right. I I don't want you to have the pressure of having to do it unless that's what you feel like is your calling. Right. But that being said, I was thinking about Michael, and I'm like, Michael was an RB artist. Jack Safari was an RB Motown artist, but he's the king of pop. Right. Now, we define pop, you could define it as popular. So whatever's the most popular at any time is popular. It could be pop. Like it could be rap music that's popular, it could be RB that's popular, it could be jazz that's popular, whatever it is, but then there also is this other idea of pop, what they call teeny pop, and the yeah, you know, the teeny bopper. And stuff like that. So you got these two different pops. Basically, they both are popular, though. Right. And one, and at some point, a lot of times other genres will dominate pop. Like Beyoncé dominates pop when she's out. Taylor Swift dominates pop when she's out. But she started off as a country artist. Right. Now they're intersecting with each other. Exactly. It's like, oh, I'm going to take what you did and you're going to take what I did. But that being said, I think that you can have an eclectic palette as an artist. I just think that it's hard to start there. Yeah. I agree. Prince. Look at Prince. He's the most one of the most eclectic, successful artists we know. Artists we know because he was like funk, pop, rock, RB.

SPEAKER_04 44:46

Here's the catch. He could do them all. Here's the catch. He made a statement. He said, I'm making music for me. Right. Y'all just catch it. If y'all like it. If you like it, cool.

SPEAKER_02 44:54

If you don't, yeah, but you're also talking about somebody who had a record deal, who had, could play all the instruments, could really unpack it all the way he heard it. Because that's that's important too. Right. Like if you if you if you gotta rely on other people in that process, there's a challenge in that. You know what I'm saying? Because not everybody can help reproduce what's in your head. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So tell me how how is it navigating that? And like that that's a challenge. Like, what what do you what are you what's your goal with that challenge?

SPEAKER_04 45:26

Um I always I can either sing out what I want or I can hack out what I want on keys. Guitar, pray my strength in the Lord. But for guitar parts, I can sing what I want. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or play it.

SPEAKER_02 45:48

You got a competent guitarist that can play it.

SPEAKER_04 45:50

Yeah, I can I can sing it to the guitarist and be like, okay, I want this. It feels like this, yeah, or I can sample it.

SPEAKER_02 45:56

Yeah, true. And like and just say, do do this, you know, and now reinterpret it.

SPEAKER_04 46:00

Right. You know, working with Lauren Hill is like, oh, she had me chopping samples and stuff every day for hours. If I wasn't rehearsing or we weren't on stage, back of the bus, I was chopping. So I you know, I've developed where I can chop out samples of what I want. This is the idea, this is how it should feel.

SPEAKER_02 46:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 46:22

And okay, get to going. You know, you know, just being able to communicate with other music, other musicians, yeah, what you're hearing. And then sometimes, especially if you got great musicians, they can bring it to life and make it better.

SPEAKER_02 46:40

Yeah, yeah, yeah. They can add to it, like, okay, when I play it, I feel this, I hear this.

SPEAKER_04 46:45

And I love, you know, it's more tedious. I love when musicians give me more than one or two takes. Yeah. So it gives me options to create another sound or idea. Yeah. So, like, my guitar player, I always joke with him, like, every time I record with him, he always, at the minimum, 50 takes. Wow. And I recorded on live on Facebook, we were recording on the last album, and it was like, oh my God, we had 200. Wow. And I had to sit through it, but every take was great. It was something else. And I was like, oh my God, how am I gonna get through this? And people were sitting there counting. And it was like, but once I got it, he heard something else. It was like, wait, wait, I'm gonna redo it. I'm gonna redo it. Just because he said, I'm not gonna be beat by you chopping up what I did. And what he did after was even, I was like, oh my god, okay, that's it. One take after this. We're not going, yeah. You know, it's just competent musicians that are that can hear where what you're hearing and do that or take it to the next level.

SPEAKER_02 47:53

That's tedious, man. Because I'll tell you, I I'd be like, Where's the best one? You know, I would comp it, you know, like what we do with vocals and stuff, but at the same time, I'm like, eventually, I'm gonna pick one. Or pick something, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_04 48:06

Yeah, I mean, it's it's the same comp same concept of when you're comping, finding the best of whatever.

SPEAKER_02 48:13

Yeah, there was a story uh I heard about Quincy on the mixes for Thriller. I forget what record it was, but he was saying like they got up to like 80 something mixes all for him to say, yeah, go back to number 20 or 19. Like it doesn't like it's TD. He knew which one he liked already, but let me see what else you got. Or do it again, try it again. Let me see how many tries. And again, that's the part. I mean, I had to like remember that because I remember when I started as a producer, I was in that discovery and and and take chances and kind of just see what happens. And then as you got more, as I got more competent as a musician and be able to just zero in on what I wanted faster, I did less of that exploration. But exploration is there's nothing wrong with exploration. Oh no, I think it's important. Like I I honestly, I found myself now in a place where because you spend a little bit more time in it, because you like kind of basking it a little bit, you can get deeper into it and you can get more uh better results, in my opinion, where you probably won't even see those results. Um one of my boys uh saw something from Quincy where he said he let the pen practice and practice and practice until they got tired, and he wouldn't record them until they were tired, until it's late in the in the evening or early in the morning, and now they're tired. Because it's natural that's he wanted to get rid of those those uh those extra thinking about it.

SPEAKER_04 49:41

Yeah, so you're not even thinking about it, just play. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just play. And it was like what's natural from the heart. That's what you say, what you say, what's in your head, what's in your heart. Don't give me what you've heard.

SPEAKER_02 49:53

And he worked with uh you know with those jazz cats, so yeah, he probably knew that.

SPEAKER_04 49:57

Yeah, so it's like the conscious intent.

SPEAKER_01 50:01

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 50:02

You know, and again, music, which a lot of times we forget, it's it's for us, yes, but it's for other people as well. Yeah, yeah. You know, we're we're our jobs are to change people's outlook on life.

SPEAKER_01 50:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 50:21

You know, whether you're singing or playing, you know, like we were singing tonight, yeah, and you watching people, I'm getting caught up because of the lyrics and how we sound that sound, those frequencies. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And them, we were doing our job.

SPEAKER_02 50:39

Yeah, yeah. You know, it's a different, it's different outlooks, like your director has an outlook, you have an outlook from being on the stage, but also being a part of it. And you're in the moment, like what they call the meta moments, like I'm thinking about it in the moment, like, okay, we here, but we in this moment that we ain't gonna get back. Right. You ain't gonna be in this moment again, you know what I'm saying? And just living it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Living it. Know what you gotta do, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 51:04

But live in the live in that moment and let that moment carry the music.

SPEAKER_02 51:08

Listen, man, I appreciate you being here, bro. You know, um, where can they follow? I know you you still make your music as an artist. What's on the horizon and where could they follow you?

SPEAKER_04 51:19

Uh, working on a new record now.

SPEAKER_02 51:22

Um What style is it gonna be? Never style.

SPEAKER_04 51:27

Uh, it's gonna be um what did we discuss? It's it's a combination between soul and RB. Okay, gotcha. Which is all the same.

SPEAKER_02 51:35

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But there's still nuance, I guess.

SPEAKER_04 51:38

It's is is at the heart of everything I do is funk. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's funk and blues.

SPEAKER_02 51:44

You like you like to dance.

SPEAKER_04 51:47

I I want people to shake their butts, I want their neck to hurt, I want people to sweat. Yeah, you know what I would see as being nine times out of ten, I was the youngest person coming up in the band. Okay. So I would get to see being in them VFO clubs, we like, oh, you know, okay, you know, you know, party.

SPEAKER_02 52:11

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 52:12

Party. We we need to get back to the party in the music.

SPEAKER_02 52:15

I think I think people always could go to a party and always could experience a party in music. You you see some artists going back to those retro sounds like Bruno. He's he's he's like, I'm gonna live in retro because it don't die. You know what I'm saying? It always works. What's old will always become new again. It always works. And you know, you you think about I still think the 90s was one of the best musical times, just in terms of access, in terms of sonics, in terms of um, and now it don't have it don't touch the 70s in in live music, right? But as it related to recorded music and CDs and stuff, it was a different sonic, it was a different thing. And as it related to RB, like Earth. 90 was the best RB. That was it. I mean, that's a hot take. I'm sure somebody might dispute it, but nope. I don't know. I said it. You see people over and over again back to it in the 90s over and over again. I mean, and I mean, I love the artists that's out now. And I I I love the ones that have some originality, a more originality than borrow, because everybody's gonna borrow. But at least if I can know what your sound is, yeah. Who's your voice? What's your voice? That gives me something to say, okay, this is this is a new thing on the horizon versus again conscious intent. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love that. So we're gonna we're gonna adopt that word, conscious intent. And define that for us again, huh? Define that word for us again.

SPEAKER_04 53:43

Being purposeful about what you decide to do on the bandstand on or or record or stage, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:50

Conscious intent.

SPEAKER_04 53:51

Well, bandstand stage, same thing. But you you get what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_02 53:54

Nah, I got you, man. But check out James. What what's your uh social media so they can follow you?

SPEAKER_04 53:59

Biscuit Rouse on Instagram. You can find me. Just go B-I-S-C-U-I-T Rouse, R-O-U-S-C at Biscuit Rouse. Uh my website is James Biscuit Rouse. Clean simple. Got you.

SPEAKER_02 54:12

Uh yeah. So we're looking forward to hearing some more of your music. And again, see you narrow some of it. No, no, you can do all of this stuff you want, bro. But I mean, listen, like I said, you you can have an audience for everything. You know, that's that's that's the move, you know. Um, man, but again, it was great to see you. Again, another uh musician share podcast episode. Subscribe, comment, whatever you want to do, and just make sure that you tune in in. Peace. I'm Sumartness. That's James Biscuit Ross. We'll see y'all later.

SPEAKER_00 54:48

Thanks for listening. To stay up to date between episodes, follow us on Facebook, TikTok, and Instagram, and make sure you're subscribed to our YouTube channel. If you liked what you heard today, or if there's something specific you want us to dive into next, leave us a comment. Catch you in the next episode.