Alpha Mentality - Episode 4: Jerry Eicke

On this episode of Alpha Mentality, host Sam Tooley sits down with Jerry Eicke, partner at Salad House and co-founder of Alpha Fit Club!

Jerry discusses his transition from the hedge fund space to the ever-evolving world of entrepreneurship. Along the way, he also dives into the do's and don'ts of franchising and how to fit into an established brand. 

Sam and Jerry explore the origins of Alpha Fit Club and how culture truly defines a business. They also discuss the importance of believing in yourself and relying on like-minded people to help carry your entrepreneurial venture to success! This episode covers all things business, from company culture to your bottom line.

Subscribe to Alpha Mentality for honest conversations on business, leadership, mindset, and personal growth.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:16

All right, we're ending this going. Um, this is episode four. Um, and I've got my man Jerry Icke here. And one of the things that I wanted to make sure that I did as I started the podcast was just have people on that I felt like I could have real conversations with, people who know me well, I know well, and whose mindset at the end of the day I appreciate, I admire, and feel like have also kind of grown together over the last few years, too. Um, Jerry knows every version of Coach Sam Thule over the last few years. And I think he's he's uh helped really build um, you know, that perspective that I have over the last few years as well, uh, which I appreciate because I think you are really the culmination of the people you surround yourself with. I think we're both incredibly lucky to have a very special group of people around us building businesses together, but also doing life together. So appreciate you massively for being here. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02 1:11

How did it take four episodes to get me here? It was just schedules. It thought it'd be like a one or two games. It was just schedules.

SPEAKER_01 1:16

Uh no offense to the other guys, but we made it happen. And uh, you know, I think I'm excited to dive into everything, excited to dive into the businesses we've built over the last few years and then, you know, continue to build, but also just the perspective that you've gained over your career, which has been uh tremendous, but also very different in a lot of stages of it too. Because I think that perspective helps a lot of people. It helps me every day um understand what's possible and the fact that there's really no rules to play this game by, but we get to kind of make it up as we go. So I'd love for you to share a little context in terms of where you've been, what you're up to now, your version of your story, and then we'll we'll go from there.

SPEAKER_02 1:56

Sounds good. And I appreciate the intro. Um hedge fund space. So I mean, that's kind of you know, where like the last, you know, 18 years before I got into uh all the things that we're involved in now, it was 18 years in the hedge fund space. So um it just kind of cut my teeth there. Started at a small fund, um, you know, million-dollar fund, turned into a billion-dollar fund over a course of 18 years and a lot of a lot of ups and downs and trials and tribulations, a lot of pressure, you know, high, high pressure environment, um, which I think helps me now because like I don't feel like in the restaurant space or the gym space, I could be ever thrown in a fire like I've been thrown into in that space. So I'd like to think that I'm I'm hardened by that. So I think overall, I probably don't exude the same amount of emotion a lot of the people that we surround ourselves with exude over kind of smaller things. Um, because I think I've, you know, I've been I've been through a lot, you know, in that, you know, in that in that space. Uh and then, you know, coming out of it, you know, getting involved in, you know, really, I talked to, you know, Joe when we were leaving here before and he, you know, where he was asking me um, you know, my transition from, you know, being, you know, in a hedge fund space and kind of going into what I went into. And he was like, what, you know, made you, you know, make the jump, you know?

SPEAKER_01 3:15

And he's still on all my questions. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:17

I mean, I but you know, it's it's a good question, but it's like, you know, you make a change because I was burnt out and I was done and I was overstressed, and it was time for me to leave and had the ability to leave. Um, but at the same time, you meet some other people that you like their businesses and what they want to do, and Joey being one of them um with South House. Uh, and it just came at a really nice time because like I'm not someone who could be like, well, we could retire. I have enough money, I could kind of sit back and chill out. I'm like, all right, for like how long? Two days, three days, a week. Yeah, you're not gonna like what am I moving on to? So it really came at a time when, you know, I met some, you know, met some good people, you know, Joey in this case, you know, from a South House perspective. Um, timing was right. And it's like, what the hell else am I gonna do? I got nothing else. Let's take a shot at this and let's move forward. So that was kind of the transition from, you know, the hedge fund space, you know, to kind of food space. Um, and then, you know, I got involved in some pliables, um, you know, on a franchisee level, franchise ore level on Salad House, and then obviously, you know, working with you in um as part of Alpha has been a you know a big, a big journey as well. So I got a lot of stuff going on, but it's been fun, man.

SPEAKER_01 4:24

You know, and I feel like that's like just the tip of the iceberg at the at at really at the end of the day. But when you got into the hedge fund world, more just curious on my side, like was that always a goal of yours? Was that always the ambition? Or like you were like, I have to be the finance guy, or what did that journey look like to get you into a world where you stayed there for 18 years? So clearly something about it excited you, but was that always was that always the case?

SPEAKER_02 4:47

I mean, I always loved money from from a young age. Like I was like, even remember back in the day one of my like original screen fan uh screen names on the computer was like money fan. You know, so I am a money fan. So like, yeah, that's part of it. I mean, prior to the the hedge fund space, I, you know, I owned some parking lots. Um, we did valley parking, you know, we had a parking uh concept and wound up selling, selling that business and then wound up staying in the parking industry. Um, I don't even know how much of that you know about. Um, but um, so I was in the parking industry, I was running uh parking garages for central parking and kinny parking um in Connecticut and in um New York, New York, then Connecticut, and had a really cushy job. Like it, like I sold the parking business that I had, moved into the you know, running parking lots and parking, you know, garages. Uh, and it was something that um was nice and was easy. But I had a couple of friends that were in the hedge fund space and they were like they needed investors. They knew I had sold a company, I had some money, and they wanted somebody who could invest. And they had a structure that they invested in that I was like, wow, that's a pretty unique structure. So I would invest with them, and then I was like, wow, I made some really good money in a really short period of time. That's pretty interesting. I would invest again and make some good money again. I'm like, I need to learn more about this business. Like, what are these guys doing that they could um do this? You know, and that's when I spent more time with, you know, my you know, friends that I went into the hedge fund space with and you know, joined, wound up joining their fund because it was like, hey man, you like you could do this. Like, you know, you could learn this, you're a business guy, you've made money, you had success, you have good contacts. Why don't you come over? I'm like, well, what does it pay? They're like, nothing. You know, it's like one of those kind of eat what you kill type of environment that we're you know, funding publicly traded companies, small publicly traded companies, but it was, you know, it was lucrative if you can hustle and you can have a good conversation and you were straightforward, honest, and um, you know, and be willing to work and bet on yourself. And you know, I remember, you know, like I said, I had a job that I was like running, you know, operations for the state of, you know, state of Connecticut for this company, you know, making hundreds of thousands of dollars, like, you know, whatever, 25, 30 years ago. And then I just came home one day and I was like, yeah, and I think we're let's I think we're gonna do this hedge fund thing. I want to join these guys. And she's like, what does it pay? I'm like, nothing. You know, like like what? Um so uh we wanted to, you know, moving back from Connecticut to um to New Jersey. And I just dove in. And, you know, I mean, I think it's you know, you have to take those chances, you know, if you want to get, you know, the outcome that we had. Like you said, I was there for you know, 17, almost 18 years. So um most people, I think in my situation were like, dude, you could stay at this company, you know, probably make four or five hundred thousand dollars, become, you know, some senior level guy and put it on cruise control for the rest of your life, get a retirement package. And for me, it was like, nah, man, like it's not, doesn't like it just doesn't feel right. Like this other thing was exciting, you know, it was friends. Um, they were doing, I didn't think anybody, you know, was wasn't anything that was too complicated. But the way I describe it is the way they invested, the way this we structured investments, it was kind of like a language that no one else really spoke in the finance world. So, like, even though I'm I don't consider myself any super genius or super smart guy, you know, but like I was learning this one little language that no one else spoke. And I learned how to speak it really, really well. And then I was fluent in it. And then like you could have the smartest guys in the world walk in the door. And when I was like bing bang bang, you know, like speaking that that that language that we spoke, um, they didn't speak it, and they're like, wow, how do I learn that? You know, so now I know how you talk to yourself in your mind, by the way.

SPEAKER_01 8:27

That's what happens in Jerry's brain every day. So I feel like a theme there though is that idea of betting on yourself, right? And I've I'm curious for you whether it's today when you think about new opportunities or or through those different bigger jumps. Like, is there a conversation that you have with yourself around evaluating the opportunity, taking that leap, or is it really just as simple as a gut feeling and saying, like, yeah, this feels right and I'm and I'm ready to do that?

SPEAKER_02 8:56

I'm definitely more of a gut feeling type of person. I've kind of like a ready fire aim, you know, and then let's move it along and see if we can make it happen. Um, because even if you don't completely hit the bullseye, you know, if you move your, you know, your situation forward or in a better position, then I feel like I didn't miss out on something. Like I still bettered my position. Okay, now we readjust. And like that's kind of been, you know, my philosophy is, you know, act quickly, you know, try to get a good understanding. I'm not gonna just leap without considering, but get a good understanding for the situation and try to make a move. And if I think that it could slightly better, you know, in the worst case scenario, slightly better where I am today, then I will want to make that move. Now, that being said, I really, I do feel like through the course of these businesses that I've surrounded myself with people who are not like that, you know, which kind of tugs a little bit, you know, and it's just like, well, hold on a second, man. Like, did you think about, you know, and I think that's good to have those, because you don't want to just have, yeah, man, let's all do it. Yeah, look, go ahead, go. You know, then it's like next thing you know, like my money's on fire. Um, so like I'm not saying, like I said, I'm not, I don't think I'm the smartest guy in the world. So like I like to have smart people around me who are thought out. And you know the people, you're one of them that is around me that uh that is uh that's smart and is more thought out. And um, and I'm more of, you know, impulsive, act, bet on yourself, we'll make it happen, let's fucking go get it. Um, that's that's more my style.

SPEAKER_01 10:23

I appreciate you saying that. However, I don't know if I fully agree in the sense I think we're wired very similarly from a sense of like, it will, you know, whether it will work out or it won't work out, like let's go find out, right? And I think I oftentimes have to really be intentional about slowing down and making sure that that next decision is one that I've actually thought through and calculated. And I think, you know, over the course of the years, whether let's use Alpha Fit Club as an example, I've gotten better at being more thoughtful and calculated, but also the stakes are higher, right? There's a lot, there's more people betting on us. That's it took time to get here. When we first started, realistically, my mindset was just like, who cares if we fail? Right. Obviously, it mattered tremendously. We were pouring our time and energy into it. But there was this like so what mentality where it's like the worst case scenario is like it doesn't work and we'll figure out what happens next. But now, and I'm curious for you, now the the stakes are higher. There's people who have bet on us big. Um, and again, just to reiterate, Jerry's one of the partners at Salad House, right? You know, becoming a massive brand. Alpha Fit Club, 20 plus locations. There's franchisees who have bought into the systems. There's people who have quit their jobs. It's something we've been talking about a lot lately. People have quit their jobs with families to bet on the vision that we've put in place, the opportunity we have too, but there's a burden of responsibility on us to execute. So I'm curious, you know, with that in mind and your, you know, the back of your mind as you, as you approach these decisions on these businesses, do you find yourself to being more naturally inclined to take your time and think things through versus maybe when we first started the businesses?

SPEAKER_02 12:03

Yeah, maybe maybe a little bit, but not tremendously. I mean, I do realize that, you know, um, I certainly feel that pressure that you feel um, you know, when people have, you know, literally, and especially because, you know, I feel like a lot of times, you know, I'm one of the older guys, the more senior guys, probably the more trusted guys in the room because I've been around the block a little bit. You know, so I think people kind of, you know, we'll we'll talk to everybody, but in the end, like we'll come to the guy who's the, you know, kind of the older guy, the senior guy. I mean, what do you really think of the? You know, you feel good about like what this is, you know. Um, so I think there's that, you know, I feel that added pressure and that added responsibility. Um, so I feel it in, I mean, I really do. I feel it in a number of different ways. You know, I feel it for my partners, you know, who, you know, haven't hit that level of success yet in their career just because they haven't had time on the planet as long as I have, you know, like I think it they're all, you know, headed that way. Um, so I feel it for my partners. I feel it for the franchise uh partners that we're involved in and on all these levels. Um, and I feel it, you know, for the team members, you know, um, for people, you know, like you said, who have we know, like who have like had opportunities to go in other careers or other paths. And like because you and I have made conversations with them, they're like, ah, you know, man, you know what? I'm gonna take a lesser paying job with these guys because I think they're, you know, they're onto something. You know, so I feel a ton of pressure, yeah, you know, from a number of different, you know, levels, um, a number of different ways um in those scenarios, definitely.

SPEAKER_01 13:31

I feel like it's good pressure though. Joe and I were talking about this before on the the last podcast around um, you know, why you want certain things for yourself, right? And sometimes wanting more for yourself, more money, more, more success, more whatever can sometimes come from a place of feeling like you're not worth anything, right? Or you feel less than or what have you, right? And that can feel like a negative pull, if you will, versus feeling almost inspired, right, by the fact that you have had people bet on you. And I think, you know, the the pressure that you and I often feel is good pressure, yeah. Right. It's pressure to show up because we want to show people that this was worth betting on, right? And so I'm curious for you, and and we are, listen, we're salespeople at the end of the day, we've got to sell the vision for our brands, but we also believe in it. So we're not selling bullshit. It's stuff we really believe and we're gonna back up with the work on our side as well. But when you think about South House, when you think about Alpha, when you think about the next five, 10 years of these businesses, like what's the vision that you have for them when you do talk to those people?

SPEAKER_02 14:34

Yeah. I mean, I I literally look at the vision being like we just want successful businesses. You've heard me say it all the time. Like, I we want businesses that that in the end, like all these other, you know, the logos, the looks, the feel, the vibe, yeah. In the end, like, do they make money, man? Because like that's really what it comes down to. And I think, you know, we have so many meetings about so many different things. And you know me, like I always try to bring it back to, okay, great, but how do we get them to make money? How do we get them to make more money? Because ultimately that's it. You know, like, yeah, they they bought into us, whether it be for alpha, for the look, the feel, the work out everything. If all those things are there and they don't make money, they hate us, man. And it wasn't a good thing for them, and it wasn't a good thing, you know, we had the conversation with them thinking that this could be something that would change their lives in a positive way and do well for them. So when you have a studio that's struggling, you know, or a you know, a restaurant that's struggling, like that weighs on me too, you know, like because you know, what did we not do that that we that they're in that position? You know, how could we do things differently next time? What can we do to get them in a better spot and make money? And that's really what my focus, I try to, you know, like these guys, you know, on the Salad House side, I'm like, we're not a health food charity, man. Like these people, you know, I'm so happy that, you know, like Joey always says, like, I want to get people to smile through their stomachs and great, awesome. I want that too, man. I want good food, I want good service. But in the end, I also want, I want to make money for myself and my family, but I also want to make money for the people that we talked about before that are betting on us, including the, you know, the franchise owners, you know.

SPEAKER_01 16:11

I think, you know, a lot of that comes down to when we, when we talk about it in our meetings, is like the inputs drive the output, right? Meaning making money is a byproduct of making the good decisions that ultimately drive to that. So whether it is the marketing, whether it is all of the things that go into it, right? Those little things that pile up, you know, yield that output that we're all looking for at the end of the day, but we've got to reverse engineer it to make sure that that's really top priority, period. Right.

SPEAKER_02 16:36

Yeah. Like I feel like sometimes we go off on tangents on these little things and like get focused on something like, can we just bring it back to like, is this affecting how we're gonna make money? Because we need to always bring it back there. Because in the end, like you're not, you know, you're not paying bills with aesthetic, you know?

SPEAKER_01 16:50

And I think that's a it's a discipline, right? Meaning it's a discipline to focus on what matters most and stay true to that versus being a creative person like myself who can get, you know, uh pulled off track to think about Alpha Games, the main event, right? And thinking about this massive moment for the brand. And yes, I can, you know, I can create the narrative and say, like, well, it's gonna bring us maybe some franchisees and it's gonna help keep us members, but ultimately, you know, I think I can get pulled off track, which is why having partnerships in place that keep you grounded in what matters most. And again, sometimes you need, you know, the the brakes to be pumped, maybe. Yeah. Uh, and other times I need to be brought back to kind of that equilibrium where it's like, listen, all of these new uh products and offerings and marketings and this and that are great, but are we focused in on the core truth of what this business literally is and it's it's making money.

SPEAKER_02 17:40

Yeah, but and it may not be an immediate reward, you know, like it may not, you know, to the you know, like the alpha games perspective, it may not be an immediate, like we're gonna profit X dollars off of that, but it's long term. Like, you know, you could certainly sell me on that. Like, hey man, you know, the fact that we've created that Alpha Games um and it's become so popular that it has helped the brand and you know, it is attracted more studios and more people want to come to Alpha and then talking about the Alpha Games, that sort of thing. So, yeah, not all dollars are like immediate, you know. So, you know, I think we were planting a lot of seeds as well.

SPEAKER_01 18:13

I think one thing that you've uh often brought up with your experience at pliable specifically, obviously you got in super early. I remember you and I were working out one day in my tiny studio, right? 700 square feet, and we were really just getting to know each other for the first time. And you were telling me, uh, you were like, I'm gonna go check out this this smoothie spot that I use. You're like, I don't know if you heard of it. I honestly hadn't. And uh it was pliables, lo and behold, and this was 2019 that we were talking about it. Uh no, I'm sorry, 20 2017, 2018. It was early. Yeah, yeah. Um, it was very early, which is wild to think back on. Uh, but you've often referenced what Playa kind of had that made it pop, right? And thinking about, you know, Salad House and Alpha Fit Club as it pertains to that. Maybe talk a little bit about what you find to be true about, you know, these businesses that ultimately thrive and what they kind of share in common.

SPEAKER_02 19:06

I mean, pliables, I was always very impressed by just because you know, certainly it was a unique business. And I any business that I'm involved in, I'm not involved in it just purely for the money. Like I have to really enjoy it, you know. So, like if we talk about, you know, you talk about pliables, you know, Salad House, Alpha, um, almost home, you know. So, like all these businesses I truly, you know, love and believe in them and uh, you know, enjoy being part of them. And that's why I want to get them to a point where they can really do well for not only our core myself, our core group, but the people involved in them. Um Pliables is really was really a nice um intro to to this franchise space because you know, I think um Rob and Abby, who are the founders, like just really did it so well because they were so passionate about it. You know, and I always and you probably remember me talking about when, you know, I had you know left the hedge fund space. Um I was well capitalized. And I, you know, I went to pliables all the time down to Belmore. I loved it, um, enjoyed the smoothies. I was a fan of the you know, food, um, loved the vibe of the place, you know, and I, you know, wanted to buy one of these. It was, you know, down the shore, and I'm sure they were expanding, you know, North Jersey. And I reached out and I remember talking to, you know, Gary, who you remember, who's you know, was their sales guy at the time. And and he was like, Yeah, all right, I don't have a lot of time, but like, you know, um, can you do multiple? Can you purchase multiple and do you not need any financing? You know, because otherwise I don't even want to talk to you. You know, like, yeah, I could do multiples and I don't need financing. Uh so we'll do a a meeting. I'm like, okay, what do you mean? Yeah, the founders want to have dinner with you, you know, and uh just like baller moves.

SPEAKER_01 20:43

I'm like, for what?

SPEAKER_02 20:43

Like, did you not understand I have the money and I want to just open a smoothie place? Like, I don't, like, what am I missing? Um, like, yeah, they want to, you know, so like I went and dinner had dinner with with Rob and Abby, and you know, and they sat down and we ate at um went went to Asbury Park, had pizza in Asbury Park and got to know me. And I was like, I can't believe like I'm literally being interviewed to own a smoothie shop. Like, this is insane to me, you know? Um, but now I look at it and I was like, these guys were way ahead of their time. Right. You know, they had a business, like I was the, I think our group was like the 20th franchise, and now they probably have, you know, Playa probably has like 375 franchises at the time, uh at as we speak today. And at 20, they were like, Yeah, man, this is our baby. Like, we don't want to have any assholes that just come here and you know open these up because they see lines around the corner for some minute. And that's not what I was doing. Like, like I said, I'm I enjoy the product, I enjoyed the vibe, I wanted to do it. Um, so I passed the test. But like, you know, that kind of, you know, as far as any lessons go, that's a great lesson, you know, because there was a lot of people that wanted to open pliables. And there was a lot of people, yeah. I want to open pliables. Like, why? Uh see lines around the corner. Like, what's your favorite pliable? Like, I don't know, man, but uh, you must be doing something like, yeah, man, you're not, you know. So I like to think that we took some of That Soundhouse and Alpha Fit Club and applied that. You know, because, you know, and I don't remember who said it, but someone said to me, like, hey, listen, if you don't enjoy an hour dinner with somebody, why would you want to enter into a 10-year contract with them? And I was like, really makes a lot of sense. Now that's all good on paper. Um, but the reality is as you build a brand of franchise businesses, like, you know, like you may not have the perfect fit of a person, but you're like, I need to get these stores open and we need to take a little bit of a chance. And I think there's an evolution, you know, that both brands, you know, have gone through where you now can be, you know, a little more selective because as you've gotten, you know, off the ground and you've proved out the concept, and we have studios that do really well. Um, we have, you know, restaurants that do really well in, you know, in South House, you can now be more selective and say, like, you know, man, I'm not feeling this guy. And we did that early on. You know, we're there's I know there's some examples that you and I can both discuss of like, I want to open up the whole state, but I don't know, man.

SPEAKER_01 23:00

Like, and I love telling that story because it makes me sound like I got these big balls that I can tell somebody with a bag of cash, like, take a walk. But there is something to be said, and I think we've absolutely learned it, especially on something that is so people-driven on the alpha fit club side of things, is like you've got to be the right culture fit to build a community-oriented brand, period. And listen, that can be different shapes and sizes for sure.

SPEAKER_02 23:23

It can be different backgrounds, all yeah, or it's somebody, maybe it's not you, it's somebody you are gonna hire that has that same you know mindset, you know.

SPEAKER_01 23:30

But at the minimum, you have to believe in the vision, right? You have to understand, you have to really just say, like, yes, I align with this brand. And I think one of the things I've heard you talk about with Playa specifically is that they had a real brand, right? They had a loyal following, people loved it. And I understand why, you understand why we were, you know, we were also um of a similar mindset when it came to Playa, but you need that at its core because even if you're not gonna run the studio every day, or if you're not gonna run the store every day, like you got to like the food, you gotta like the classes. And yeah, we had one gentleman come down, stand behind the looking glass at Alpha. He's like, I want all of Connecticut, right? And I was like, all right, man, well, like, let's get you in for a class, let's get you, you know, in the room so you can really see it. And he's like, I would, I would never take a class. I'm like, what do you mean? And he's just like, well, my wife will take the class, but I don't, I don't do this shit. And I'm like, one, your wife could probably kick the shit out of you in this class for sure, based upon that statement. And two, like, this isn't gonna be a fit. You're not gonna get it, you're not gonna be willing to do the work required to make this what it's capable of being because it's not for you. Yeah. So I think that's a big that that has been a big lesson for us.

SPEAKER_02 24:35

Yeah. And I and like I said, with with all the brands, like, you know, you then, you know, put that as you evolve, I think you make that more of a priority, you know, to try to get the right people in. Um, you know, and and we do it all the time with South House too. Like you'll have, you know, because we put up really nice numbers at Salad House and people are like, oh man, I want to get a Salad House, man. Like, yeah, man, I love South House, go there all the time. And we're like, all right, what do you get? Oh man, dude, you don't go to South House. You know, like if somebody comes back with, yeah, I get the Apple Wall. All right, you know, so like I love throwing that out there, you know, but it's a same thing with Alpha. And we, you know, I think because of the, you know, continuing to ask those types of questions and get those types of people, um, you know, we we do have some really nice franchise partners in, you know, in these brands, which is pretty cool.

SPEAKER_01 25:18

I think one of the things that we've been trying to kind of bring forth on this podcast, even in initial conversations, what what I love about this too is so many different personalities already, even though it's all of our friends, right? Like realistically, whether it's Tim, who's your partner in South House and obviously on Alpha, Kieran, who's your nephew, which we didn't even mention on the free day podcast, to Joe, who you've known for a long time now from me, to yourself, right? Completely different perspectives, completely different backgrounds. But I think a lot of times people listen to podcasts, everybody on the podcast is an entrepreneur to some extent. And there's this desire and yet at the same time, this unrelatability because they're like, these people are all living the life that I want to live. They've taken the chance, right? We talked about that early. They've bet on themselves, and I'm I'm not there. I'm not yet living that life. And so it can become like I want that thing, but I don't know if it's for me. I don't know if I'm capable of taking that chance, or I just haven't done it yet, right? And one of the things that you and I were chatting about early was, you know, you have a lot of people in your life at different stages, whether it's Parker, your son, who's 25, myself, who's gonna be 34. Um, you, yeah, I know, man. That's a real number. Yeah, I gotta figure out my shit soon. Um, you know, you made a big career change in your 40s. Like, you know, I think there's underlying truths that you can provide potentially that no matter what age you are, right, there's certain advice that you could potentially give to somebody if they're thinking about taking that chance. Is there anything that comes to the top of your mind as I ask that question?

SPEAKER_02 26:53

Yeah, I mean, I I would say um be likable, man. You know, like I like you don't always have to be the smartest guy in the room, but you have to be the guy that um people want to be around, you know? So like you know, like you talk about Parker, and I I think I've said the same thing to you, you know, and I would just give it to anybody who's, you know, even even my age, you know, if you, you know, walk into the room and you know, people perk up, you know, and you have a big smile on your face, you know, you're somebody people want to be around, you don't have to be a smart guy around, you know. But like if somebody who's super smart has a great idea and they're like, ah man, who else, who else can we get as part of the core team? Like, dude, get Sam, get Parker, good dudes, man. Like they'll fucking work their ass off. You know, like I think that's a big part of it is be likable and work your ass off. Yeah. You know, I think that 20s, 30s, 40s, same shit. Um, you know, and I like to think that I feel that way about myself, um, you know, kind of walking in the room. I don't think anybody's like, ugh, this fucking guy. Um, you know, so uh, you know, and I think that, you know, that's that's what I would would say is be likable um and work hard. And I think anybody who's building a business is gonna want to have somebody like that around them.

SPEAKER_01 28:10

I think it's it's it's interesting too. I'll uh bring, you know, another name who no one on the podcast will know, not yet. Maybe one day I'll get on here, but I think of like a Jamie Hare, right? Who high energy second, second shout out to Jamie? Yeah, yeah. Um, so I think we'll get Jamie on here. But somebody who like walks into a room and you're like, man, like their energy is just electric. And I'm sure everybody has that person where it's almost like baffling to a certain extent, right? I uh take a step back and I'm like, wish, I wish I could have some of that energy and and passion for life or whatever, curiosity, you name it. And um, I've always asked him, like, is that an intention that you set when you wake up that you want to be that way? Is it a skill where you, you know, have over years like just grown to become that person? Because to your point, it is advantageous. And some people might just not have that in them, right? They might not be that charismatic, outgoing person. But I will say this is that if you find yourself working on something that you're so passionate about, that charisma, that inspiration starts to come out naturally because you're just so excited about the thing that you're working on. So that might be uh an interesting moment for somebody where they're like, I don't have that, right? Like I don't, I don't have that ability to. But when you're talking about the thing that you fucking love, you absolutely are that person. And I think that comes to life when you kind of step into whatever that looks like for you.

SPEAKER_02 29:31

Yeah, I mean, I think having that passion, that's another thing is like, you know, doing something that, you know, makes you really, you know, want to wake up every day. I mean, listen, when I was in the hedge fund space, like I loved it, man. I had a bunch of buddies that that started this fund. You know, we, you know, worked our asses off, you know, um, traveled around the world. We we had a good time, you know, we all were in the same office together. Um, we all ate lunch together, we ate dinner together, we traveled together, like we had fun while we were doing it. Yeah, there were some tough times and we suffered together too. I think it's you know, same thing, you know, in in this stage of you know, of of my career too, is like I'm involved in things that I'm having fun with and and I'm passionate about. Like I said, I wouldn't do, wouldn't get into a business if I just thought it was like, yeah, make money. Well, like, can I add something? Um, and is it gonna be something I want to, you know, show up to every day? Because I do, you know, I said I I enjoy the meetings that we have, you know, with with alpha. You know, certainly I'm a you know active member of Alpha. I believe in the brand. Same thing with South House. Like I'm enjoy the people around, I enjoy the food, I enjoy going to stores, like I'm actively involved in those businesses because I love them. Yeah, you know, and I think that comes through, you know. So, like, you know, to your point earlier on passion, like it's tough to fake, you know, it, you know, like if if you're not, if you're going through half motions and like people could identify that, you know.

SPEAKER_01 30:52

I've had so many conversations with franchise prospects, some big, right, that wanted 20 units or whatever it was to a single location because they were members of the brand and they were just like, I want to do this thing. And I would say the best compliment that I get on those sales calls is man, I can tell you're excited about what you're working on. And I don't even mean to be, right? So the idea about like, is it an intention I set? No, like we have poured our lives over the last seven, eight years into building this thing. I think the second that that passion starts to wane is when you start to question whether or not it's worth the the sweat and all of that. I think sometimes the idea of being an entrepreneur, being your own boss, starting a brand can be glamorous, right? Or it can be, you know, from the outside looking in, it looks glamorous because realistically the pictures we paint of the pursuit of building this thing is all the best versions of it, right? But I think I've tried to do a really I've really tried to do my best to keep it very real as we've gone through this, the ups, the downs, the pandemic, right? Like every, every bit of this, franchising in general, right? What we're working on is really, really hard. But I I think we've continued to show up and put our best foot forward, and I get excited about what that could look like for us the the rest of this year into next year, so on and so forth. And I think that that matters. It goes a long way.

SPEAKER_02 32:09

Well, the a quick one on passion, which you know is a funny story. Like, so we have a a franchise partner of ours that has two stores gonna buy in South House, two stores gonna buy a third, um, building a third, and you know, his group wants to do a few more, and we were trying to work on territories and you know, had meetings and you know, and good consciousness, hey, you know, here's where we think, you know, some good areas would be. And and then, you know, one area was never brought up. Um, and we wound up, you know, moving forward and selling, you know, like, hey man, like we had a conversation, like you never even brought up that area, and like, but it's an area that's adjacent to his, you know, to his area, and he was pissed, man, and like sent a nasty, you know, note to all of us, you know, about you know, hey man, like how could you do that? You know, I have, you know, multiple stores and and like everybody, you know, and really took some shots and we were like, what the fuck? You know, like it was uncharacteristic, you know, and I think, you know, after initially, you know, getting that, you know, kick in the nuts and from him, you know, and like kind of feeling a certain way, I just I'm not a, you know, for me, I'm not a big long email guy. Like, so even that long email that came in, I was like, well, that was shitty. I'll talk to you in person. Yeah, like I'm not a, I don't want to go to the long debates over email on this is what we said in the meeting, this is like I'm right, you know, like nah man, let's just have a conversation. But when I pulled it all back and I slept on it, I was like, you know, man, this fucking guy wants more sourdough.

SPEAKER_01 33:34

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:34

This dude is so passionate that he's pissed that something was going in. But next to him, he wanted more. You know, like all the things he said, I was like, yeah, man, that sucks.

SPEAKER_00 33:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:46

But what his intention was, he loves the brand so much that he felt you're fucking them. You know, like, and I'm like, all right, man, that's workable. Yeah, you know? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:57

Jerry and I are very emotional people. Uh and I think, listen, if I'm being honest, I think that's one what's made us very uh strong partners over a long period of time, right? Uh, and I think it's also, you know, it's going back to that burden, right, of responsibility, you want to do right by people. I think we both have uh very heavy consciousness, even if we think we've done the right thing, if if we feel like other people feel like we've done the wrong thing, yeah, um, that weighs on us, right? 100%. You and I will, you know, we we have trouble sleeping after it, whatever. And that's I I would say, you know, is it a detriment to our ability to um, you know, is it a detriment to the businesses sometimes? Maybe, right? Maybe maybe it is in terms of growth or what have you, because other people would do other things to grow the business in the wrong ways. Yeah. But I think ultimately it lets us grow the businesses that we want uh with the people that we want with the right relationships. And I think we know because we work so closely together, like we're always moving with best interest in mind, or at least we're trying to. We can be wrong, we can make, we can say the wrong thing, do the wrong thing, make the wrong decision, but in our heart we did it with we we did the wrong things with for all the right reasons, or at least so we thought.

SPEAKER_02 35:07

Like, especially in that situation, like I I went over my head, like I don't, I didn't feel bad at all how I went about it. I felt like I was, I I did everything the way I thought I should have. And I think there were some errors on on their side on how they went about it, and that's what was you know ended in the result that it ended, you know, ended in. But like I slept fine, you know, knowing, you know, that that you know it's unfortunate that that's the outcome and you know, we'll try to remedy it. But yeah, I, you know, I think if we're I wasn't trying to pull the wool over, I wasn't trying to sneak anything, you know. I could go to sleep at night knowing like I was trying to do the right thing. I'm always gonna try to do the right thing, you know.

SPEAKER_01 35:40

Yeah. When you think about um the rest of this year, right. And I think, you know, one of the things I love walking into Jerry's office, he's got the big ass calendar up on the wall. Um, and it always makes me feel like I'm not doing enough with my time because I know how busy I think I am, and then I know how busy you are. And I look at this wall and and you uh certainly are living life to the to its fullest extent. Like as you think about game planning for this year and and so on and so forth, two questions. First and foremost, as you, you know, kind of look back on this year, we push forward, we we work our asses off. One, I'm curious for you if there's anything that would make this year a huge success, maybe less so on the business front, right? We obviously have certain milestones we're chasing, but more so for you personally, in terms of, you know, really I would say how you show up over the course of this year. Is there anything where you're like, if I can look back on this year and say, I did this, I did that, I showed up in this way, that would be um, you would be able to say that this year was a success?

SPEAKER_02 36:39

Yeah, it's tough. I I mean, um, I'm I'm still working on, you know, being, you know, kind of a better leader, you know, like even, you know, the majority of my career, like I said, in the hedge fund space, I was probably a number two or number three guy. I was number the guy. You know, our portfolio manager was the guy, and you know, he had it all, man. He had, you know, super, super smart, um, but also savvy, man, business, like, you know, street smart, you know, just like a deadly combination of why someone is going to be, you know, super rich, you know, which he is, you know, good for him. Shout out to you, Mark. Um, so um for me, you know, moving into what I would consider quasi be like more of a number one in a lot of times that I'm you know, walking in a room, like, you know, present company excluded, you know, with alpha, but like, you know, more senior guy, you know, just kind of being a better leader. And I think part of that is um bringing that um even keel, that trend, you know, that listen, let's dial it down, man. Yeah, you know, like I think in that all because we're surrounded by so many passionate people who really love everything we do, emotions run high a lot, man. You know, like we have people in our group, you know, like we talk about people who are partners, you know, in this, you know, in the groups that we're in. You know, you talk about, you know, we mentioned Tim and you, you know, we didn't bring up Rob, but like, you know, like there's, you know, when you talk about like operating partners are super passionate and soup operate with super conviction on everything they do. Like, this is the way it's gotta be. I'm telling you, you know, like, all right, man, let's dial it down, let's bring it back a little bit. You know, so I think for me, um kind of helping, you know, just fly the plane, you know, without a lot of turbulence and just but still get to the destination that we want to get to, I think is, you know, is something that um I'm working on. Um and it's we have a lot of pieces, you know, a lot of players. Um, so it's a lot of different personalities. Um, you know, I you know, I say to Ann sometimes, like, man, who do I call? You know, who's my complaint hotline? Because like I feel like I get a lot of, man, this isn't happening, this isn't working. What are we gonna do with it? You know, and like, all right, man, like let me see what like we gotta let's let's figure it out. But I I don't feel like sometimes I have a helpline. You know, it's like I could use a helpline every once in a while. Um, but that's fine. As far as you know, the businesses, like, you know me, man, like it's just continuing to get them better, continuing to move them forward. I go down to each of these studios, each of these restaurants, you know, if we can get them to make a little more money, you know, if we can, you know, get the franchise owners happy, like I think everything falls into place from there, you know. So it's um it's really what role can I play, you know, to make that happen, you know, and part of it, you know, I think is, you know, as I, as my, you know, tenure at these businesses, you know, you know, a lot of it is, you know, being able to, you know, bring my experience and just being in business for a longer period of time and let people know, like, hey, yeah, these are good businesses. You can make money here and um and be able to lend, you know, lend my knowledge that way, um, you know, as someone who's more senior in the room, you know.

SPEAKER_01 39:48

So I feel like, and I hear you on all of that, right? I'm I am one of the, I have Jerry on the hotline if I need to call him, right? And and complain about whatever. I try to do my best not to leverage that button, but every once in a while you need that soundboard, as as do you. I feel like as entrepreneurs though, and business owners, your personal life and your work life become so entrenched, right? So um synonymous with one another. And I hear you on the leadership front, I hear you on, you know, the even keel. Is there anything that you feel like as you set, you know, the intention for the year, but also just like maybe something that you are finding yourself struggling with outside the confines of work where you're like, I need to work on this part of my mindset, and obviously it will have uh a ripple effect in my work, but is there anything outside of that where you're like, in terms of my mindset, like this might need a little bit of focus?

SPEAKER_02 40:39

I mean, uh, as you get older and you don't know this shit, but as you get older, like more shit goes wrong with you, or at least potentially can go wrong with you. So, you know, I'm doing the heart 75, you know, now. Um, so I think that was part of me resetting because you know I'm someone who likes who really loves life and um wants to do some fun stuff, you know, and when that may be eating at really good restaurants and having nice old fashions and drinking with everybody and more of a social thing. Um, but that also leads to extra pounds and probably not some good habits and and that sort of thing. So I, you know, I think going into this year, I wanted to really make a, you know, so when Kieran was like, hey, let's, you know, who wants to do heart 75? Like, no, I don't want to do it, right? You know, but I think it's probably good for me to do it. Um, you know, because I think, you know, you have to be healthy, man. You have to be, um, if I'm gonna influence people, you know, my family or whatever, um, my friends, I need to be here. Yeah, you know. So a focus on, you know, just being healthier, you know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:44

Yeah. I think I mean not that we're unhealthy.

SPEAKER_02 41:46

Like if I can run the marathon last year, like what I've done, like eight different high rocks is that sort of thing. Um, but it's it's everything. It's like, you know, you need to be, you know, you need to be working out, you need to be able to sleep better, you need to hit the sauna, um, you need to walk, you need to do all these things, you need to maintain a good relationship with your, you know, your family, your wife, your, you know, your kids, um, all those things because that's the most important stuff.

SPEAKER_01 42:08

Yeah. I think it's, and the reason I I I've almost asked that question on every single one of these podcasts, because again, I think one of the things that I will continue to try and do, both personally and quite frankly, for other people, is the fact that, you know, we continuously scroll social media, we listen to podcasts, everybody knows the right thing to say, the right thing to post. Like it's almost like this, you know, everyone is uh making life look picture perfect and and X, Y, and Z. And people who have achieved what you've achieved or are building what you're building, and and same for me to an extent, are still struggling with certain things in their own personal life. And like no one's perfect. Like we're all figuring it out as we go. And so part of the reason I bring that up is so that somebody listening can can start to relate to, you know, what it is that we're dealing with outside the confines of just building these businesses or what have you, right? And so I think it's just, you know, a reality check for all of us and an opportunity for us to check in with ourselves to be like, you know what? Like, I'm so hyper focused in on this work, but I also know I need to take care of this because there's other things outside of just what we do from let's say five in the morning until nine at night is a joke. But like there are there's so many different pieces to life that not any one of it can be completely shut off or disregarded because it all impacts everything.

SPEAKER_02 43:25

I mean, what's going on in my head is, and I probably said this to you before, I don't feel like I've accomplished shit. Like I, you know, like, yeah, maybe in the hedge fund space, like, yeah, you know, I had some nice successes, but like the way I look at myself right now, like you haven't done shit in this business yet. You know, you have two businesses that are on the way, but like, hi, man, like it's on the way, but it ain't there. Neither one of them are there yet. Like, you better still work your ass off to get them there, you know, with all those people betting on you. You know, because right now, the way I see it, like you still got a lot of work to do and you haven't accomplished. Shit, you know, in your life, you know, as far as these businesses go. That's what goes on in my head right now.

SPEAKER_01 44:05

What is what is there, right? What is when you say you haven't made it there yet, what is there? Is it perfecting the system and these you know, stores or studios opening incredibly well and 90% of them making money? Is it is is a really high functioning business there? And when you can take a step back and say, that's that's fucking great. Like we built something fucking great. And you just know that there's maybe gaps in gaps in the armor.

SPEAKER_02 44:32

Yeah, and maybe I don't, I don't maybe truly even know what there what that is yet, but like I want these businesses to run so well and to be so coveted that I want people coming after them like, I need to fucking have them, man. Like I need to buy more of these, or I need to, I need to own that company. I need bidding, you know, like people want to bidding more. You know, we go back to pliables. I mean, yeah, you know, they had private equity come in and buy the, you know, the company once, you know, and then, you know, the Rob stuck around and somebody else bought it again and, you know, made hundreds of millions of dollars. It's less about the money, but it's more of like, I did it, man. That was the achievement of that. You know, like I created something that was so awesome that multiple people were bidding on it. Like, I don't know, to for me, that's the validation that like I haven't, you know, I don't think I've seen yet.

SPEAKER_01 45:21

I think getting, I think getting clear on that too, for anybody who owns any business in terms of like what excellence looks like or or I've made it there, right? Because I think what oftentimes happen, and it's it's happened to me a couple of times already, right, is like you think that once you get X, Y, and Z accomplishment, like that's there, right? Yeah. Um, but it's just like it's just further down the road, further down the road. And that's that might be fine, right? That might be uh that might keep things in motion. But I think understanding what there actually is for you, I think is a powerful exercise to go through because again, whether we're talking about building a business or we're just saying, like, you know, what that um that higher caliber version of ourselves looks like, really just getting crystal clear and then reverse engineering and saying, okay, like what is it gonna look like? What is it gonna take to get there? Yeah, I use the analogy of like somebody comes to me and says, I want to run a three-hour marathon, right? And we reverse engineer what that process looks like, the work that's required. And then you have an honest conversation with yourself. And are you are you sure that's the goal that you want? Because this is what it's gonna take to get there. And I think doing that even with with this and with life is a good exercise to go through because you might not even really want to do the work that you need to do to get where you want to go.

SPEAKER_02 46:32

Well, I think in order to get to what I'm talking about, like it goes back to what I originally talked about, which is like those unit economics and those happy franchise owners and that sort of thing. Because, you know, if we go back to the pliables, you know, like the reason why pliables got to where it was is that so many people wanted to buy them. It became viral. Hey, man, I I need to scoop it up. I need to have one, I need to have one. And that soon became, you know, private equity saying the same thing. Like, whoa, what is this? These guys are doing something special, you know. So, um, but it all starts with those people weren't going crazy just because like Ramona painted the walls really cool, you know, or that Asei was like the best, you know, it was, yeah, those things, but like everybody was making money, you know. Um, it was funny when I went to one of the pliables early on, one of the um owners' meetings they had, you know, it's just funny because everybody's, you know, always bitching about something. So they, you know, like such a successful brand. Everybody like went around the room just like bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch. You know, I was like, oh my gosh, like everybody hates this brand now. Like, what's going on? And like, you know, and then like, yeah, we all have one big problem. Like, we can't get you know resolved. I'm like, okay, what's this gonna be? And like, how do we buy more of these things? You know, it's like, what? You know, like you just straight out bitch to this guy who founded this company for the last two hours on all the things that was wrong. But in the end, you're like, how do I buy more of these? I'm frustrated because I want to buy more of these. All right. Well, that all goes back to what we're talking about, which is those, you know, unit, you know, there, everybody was making money. You can bitch all you want. Maybe there were some things they weren't doing right. It was flawed, but in the end, uh, you know, they made money. And I think that's in order for us, you know, to achieve what we want to achieve, or at least in my mind, I think what would satisfy me would um we need to continue to focus on those unit economics um because those translate into the big, the big win.

SPEAKER_01 48:26

Yeah, I think I've it's and I asked the question part, you know, partially uh selfishly because I asked it to myself. And I think the underlying feeling that I'm like looking for is this feeling of just feeling proud of what it is that we built, right? And I think to your point, there's there's many things that fall into what will make me proud of what we built. But I think I have this weird vision where it's I walk into an alphabet club that nobody knows who I am, right? I get to go take class, and every single bit of my experience is perfect. I walk in and I'm meeted and greeted, and and the desk is friendly, and they give me this perfect tour and they ask the questions we know that they need to ask. I go in, the studio looks spotless, the it looks amazing, the staff is well dressed, they're excited to be there. You can tell that they like each other, the members are all mingling, the lights go low, the music starts to bump. It's this perfect execution of exactly what we built, and it's in the middle of nowhere. Yeah. It's like this studio in the middle of nowhere, exactly how we designed it to be. And I know if we if it's that experience, we will have done everything you know we've needed to do to build the business that you're talking about on a larger scale where people are making money, members are excited about it. Like that's what I know I want us to build. I know we have a long way to go to get there, but like I have that clear vision. And luckily, I'm pretty confident I know the work that's required to get us there. And there's a there's a gap, there's no doubt about it. But we're not that far from it.

SPEAKER_02 49:55

Yeah. No, I agree. I I agree that we're not that far from it. And um, but I also agree, you know, I also think you can make one wrong move and you can go the other direction. Yeah. And I don't think we could ever take that for granted.

SPEAKER_01 50:10

Yeah. The pressure's on, like we talked about. Listen, man, I think this was a great conversation. I appreciate you. I'm glad we both didn't cry. A little bit. Yeah, a little bit, a little tears. Um, but we're emotional.

SPEAKER_02 50:20

I mean, I think there's uh there's some power in that emotion.

SPEAKER_01 50:23

No doubt, no doubt. Um, but I appreciate you massively. You can always call me to complain.

SPEAKER_02 50:27

And uh you know me, I don't call anybody to complain.

SPEAKER_01 50:30

And you can call Ann.

SPEAKER_02 50:32

Yeah, no, she knows she gets it. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 50:34

Awesome, man. Well, I appreciate that. I appreciate you having me, even though it's only the fourth one then. Listen, it's the first, it's the first on the scoreboard. So appreciate it. I appreciate it, brother. Thank you. Beauty.