Colleen and Greg

Hello, this is Dakota from I’ll Walk With You. It is my honor to introduce to you our guests for this episode, Colleen and Gregory Butler. We have known the Butlers for over 15 years now, and we have always been impressed by them and their beautiful family. 

Colleen and Greg are an interracial couple, married for 46 years, parents to 4 beautiful children, and grandparents to 11 grandchildren with one on the way and 3 great grand also with one on the way.  

Retired social workers, both Colleen and Greg have a vibrant passion for helping others, and making a change wherever they find themselves. They both have incredible stories about the impact that their work has had on their own lives as well as the lives of others. 

Their story together is one of great love, mutual respect, compassion, and incredible resilience. It is beautiful to hear their perspective on what is truly important in life, and to see their view and love of people, and how they have learned to accept others and to not live in fear, but in love. 

I found their story inspiring in many ways, but one of the greatest impressions left on me was how they have faced some great trials, yet when asked about them, they are talked about nearly as non-issues, a clear indicator to me that they have individually and as companions chosen to rise above those challenges and to not dwell upon them.

Colleen and Greg are beautiful people, and I am so incredibly pleased to have had them on the podcast as guests, and I am even more delighted to have them as members of my community. Speaking with them has strengthened my hope for a better future , and has displayed a wonderful example of how we can be more unified in a world where division happens so easily. 

I know that you will love them as much as we do. Thank you so much for joining us today. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:13

Hello, this is Dakota from A Walk With You. It is my honor to introduce to you our guests for this episode, Colleen and Gregory Butler. We have known the Butlers for over 15 years now, and we have always been impressed by them and their beautiful family. Colleen and Greg are an interracial couple, married for 46 years, parents to four beautiful children, and grandparents to 11 grandchildren with one on the way, and three great-grand also with one on the way. Retired social workers, both Colleen and Greg have a vibrant passion for helping others and making a change wherever they find themselves. Both have incredible stories about the impact that their work has had on their own lives as well as the lives of others. Their story together is one of great love, mutual respect, compassion, and incredible resilience. It is beautiful to hear their perspective on what is truly important in life and to see their view and love of people, and how they have learned to accept others and to not live in fear, but in love. I found their story inspiring in many ways, but one of the greatest impressions left on me was how they have faced some great trials, yet when asked about them, they are talked about nearly as non-issues, a clear indicator to me that they have individually and as companions chosen to rise above those challenges and to not dwell upon them. Colleen and Greg are beautiful people, and I am so incredibly pleased to have had them on the podcast as guests, and I am even more delighted to have them as members of my community. Speaking with them has strengthened my hope for a better future and has displayed a wonderful example of how we can be more unified in a world where division happens so easily. I know that you will love them as much as we do. Thank you so much for joining us today. Hello and welcome back to I'll Walk With You, the podcast where we have conversations about how we can all be more unified on our walk through life together. My name is Dakota Moses.

SPEAKER_04 2:34

And I'm Rhonda Monson. And here with us, we have the Butlers, Colleen and Greg Butler. We had the opportunity to meet them years ago when Dakota and his sisters were young. They were involved with Christian New Theater. And the Butlers were also involved with Christian Youth Theater. And to be honest, I have just always enjoyed both of you and getting to know you and talking to you. And always was excited when your kiddo was doing the same show as my kiddos were, so that I could interact with you and talk with you. And so we're just really glad to have you here with us as guest.

SPEAKER_01 3:14

Yes, thank you so much.

SPEAKER_04 3:15

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 3:16

We would love for you to introduce yourselves and tell us a little bit about who you are.

SPEAKER_03 3:23

Well, I'm Colleen Butler, and um I'm a retired social worker after 30 years. I've been retired for a couple years now, and I am doing volunteer work in the community through um the Jesuit Volunteer Encore, which to summarize it is a bunch of old Catholics that do volunteer work. And I also enjoy spending time. We have 11 grandchildren and three great-grands with one grandchild and one great-grand on the way. So cool. My days are full.

SPEAKER_04 4:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 4:07

Yeah, I'm Gregory Butler, um, retired social worker as well. Retired from the military after 19 and a half years. Um and I enjoy the grandkids. I uh spend Mondays and Tuesdays with Vanessa, with the uh youngest grandchild. Um, so yeah, lot to pop a time there.

SPEAKER_01 4:33

I love it. Of course. I love Vanessa, she's one of truly just my dearest friends. Um, truly, I love her so so much. How long have you two been married?

SPEAKER_03 4:45

46 years. Just a little while.

SPEAKER_05 4:49

A couple days.

SPEAKER_03 4:52

46 years in January. It was January. We were 46 years.

SPEAKER_04 4:56

Wow. Congratulations. Thanks. That's a mean that's an accomplishment, right? In and of itself.

SPEAKER_01 5:03

It is. It is it is. How did you two meet?

SPEAKER_03 5:07

In the chow hall, we were both stationed in at Malmstrom Air Force Base in the Air Force, and uh we met at the Chow Hall.

SPEAKER_01 5:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 5:18

What was that like a meeting?

unknown 5:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:24

Well uh I was in Chow Hall with a we have different different stories, stories about just to play.

SPEAKER_02 5:34

She came in the after we were already there, she sat in the area that we're sitting. And so when I got done eating, I stopped to talk to her on my way out. So that's how we actually met. All right.

SPEAKER_03 5:48

He says that I sat near him on purpose.

SPEAKER_02 5:52

I didn't say that.

SPEAKER_03 5:52

I just that's the ongoing ongoing dialogue, is that I I sat over near him to be noticed by him, which I dispute that, but that's that's our ongoing story. But regardless, he gave me his phone number, I gave him mine, I don't remember, and then I forgot his name when we actually went on our first date. I couldn't remember his name.

SPEAKER_00 6:20

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_03 6:21

Until some other person that that we both knew apparently um came up to me and said, What are you doing messing with Greg? Greg, that's it. So that's how that all came out.

SPEAKER_00 6:39

That's awesome. How long did you how long did you date before you were married?

SPEAKER_03 6:43

A year and a week.

SPEAKER_00 6:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 6:46

Wow. Because we we were gonna get married on the first anniversary of our first date, but our pastor was busy that, so we got married the next week.

SPEAKER_01 6:58

That's incredible. And how many kids do you have? Four. Four kids.

SPEAKER_04 7:03

Okay. That's amazing. Talented kids.

SPEAKER_03 7:09

Yes, they are very talented.

SPEAKER_04 7:12

Yeah, that's very cool.

SPEAKER_02 7:14

Tell it from their mom.

SPEAKER_04 7:16

No, did you do any kind of theater?

SPEAKER_03 7:20

Um, I did I did drama in high school. We we went to drama meets. Okay. Only I did serious drama. Oh. I didn't do musical theater, but I did um serious solo acting and that. Very cool. I think the only I think I might have been in one or two church plays, you know, for fun after that, but I I didn't do any serious theater.

SPEAKER_04 7:50

Right. How about you?

SPEAKER_02 7:52

Any no, I just uh started when I was old enough to remember an Easter speech.

SPEAKER_04 7:57

Okay. So were you giving the responsibility to do an Easter speech?

SPEAKER_02 8:02

Yeah, when you're old enough to talk, they put you in front of the church and say, uh Jesus loves you, or whatever you can remember. Yeah. Four-year-old or three-year-old.

SPEAKER_05 8:12

Yeah, right. That's pretty common.

SPEAKER_02 8:15

We sang it, I sang in uh, well, we didn't have kids' choir, so um, probably when I was 11 or 12, and we had kids that age, from that age to about 16 or 17. We had our own choir. Um and then moved to the adult choir, and then I went off to the military.

SPEAKER_04 8:38

Okay. So what church did each of you grow up in? Um, Catholic, uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 8:45

And I grew up Methodist.

SPEAKER_04 8:46

Okay, okay. When you got married, though, you said our pastor. So at that time were you going to the same church? We were going to an evangelical church.

SPEAKER_03 8:56

I had decided to leave the Catholic Church at that point. And um we it we were going to evangelical church. And I don't remember how we found that church actually. It just um they were very welcoming, and that's cool. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah. So and you're back with the Catholic Church. I am, yes. I came back about 2009, I want to say. Somewhere around there, I felt God leading me back. And so I was away for about 30 years in uh various churches.

SPEAKER_04 9:36

And you two do not go to the same church at this time. No, we don't. Because I remember you shared this with me. You go, where do you go to church?

SPEAKER_02 9:44

Best on AME. Okay, all right. Which is it's a Methodist, but it's not. I grew up in United Methodists, and this is uh Africa AME.

SPEAKER_03 9:59

African Methodist Episcopalian. Okay, so interesting.

SPEAKER_01 10:03

Yeah, okay, yeah. That's so fascinating.

SPEAKER_03 10:06

And we're both happy not going to each other's churches.

SPEAKER_04 10:14

I would love to hear more about that, because here you are, you're in this marriage, and I, you know, I'm I'm not in your home, so I can't say that everything's always great and you're married, so it's probably not always great, but yet you still support each other, you still sustain each other, and you're a different race, which is obvious to any of our viewers, and you go to a different church to worship, and yet you you're together, and I love that. That's actually a little bit why I wanted you on this podcast, because you're a great example of linking arms and stay and staying together in this marriage of 46 years, which is beautiful. So I would love to hear how you support each other in your different faith walks.

SPEAKER_03 11:00

Um well, I think just to go of supporting each other goes way back to the beginning, where I come from a real close family in Montana. He comes from a large, somewhat close. I'm I don't know how you describe that, but in Georgia, he has 11 siblings. And so it it was important to both of us that we spend time with our families, yeah. And so, you know, working, you get limited vacations. So we've supported each other through all these years to do separate vacations so that we can maintain our relationships with our family. Wow. So we've had to because of and and because of the racial issues in that too, we've we've learned to adjust to support each other's needs and yeah, that what what kind of racial issues have you faced as a couple? Well one of the first things was our first trip to Georgia was in our second year of marriage, I think it was.

SPEAKER_01 12:11

Which would have been what year?

SPEAKER_03 12:13

1981.

SPEAKER_01 12:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 12:16

And um we drove our car, a big old clunker car, but with supreme with Montana license plates. Uh-huh. You know, we because we were stationed in Montana. We drove down there.

SPEAKER_02 12:33

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 12:34

And uh we were on a state highway not that far from his family, his parents. And uh we met a county or a state trooper. We met and he flipped around and turned his lights on and stopped us for not breaking any any laws. And because we weren't Greg was driving, we weren't speeding, there was nothing we were doing illegal, and he came up and Cassandra, our oldest, was about a year old at the time or so, and she was in the car seat in the back seat, and he saw her, and then I think it clicked the okay, because in our mind, we think he maybe thought I was being kidnapped or in trouble because this black man was driving my Montana car. And what would a black man be doing in Montana? I mean gosh, and why would a white woman be with a black man? Right. And so he then he he just said, Well, I just didn't know what a Montana car was doing on this highway. And um he was polite, let us go, we went about our business. But it was that was one of the first things where we just realized what was happening there. Yeah, yeah. So, and we went to the beach while we were down there. This was Fernandina Beach, yeah, which is is that Georgia or Jacksonville? That's Florida, and there was a clear line, almost like it was drawn in the sand. Yeah. White people looked to this direction, black people to this direction. There was no, I was the like the white person on the black side. It was very clear there was segregation, even though it wasn't legal anymore. Right. So that was just one of the first things that we encountered.

SPEAKER_01 14:34

So how many years did you live in Montana?

SPEAKER_03 14:38

Together. Um well, we met, we started dating in 79 and then we we left September of 81. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 14:49

And where did you go to after that?

SPEAKER_03 14:52

Kennewick. Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_01 14:55

I'd be very interested to hear um what it was like raising your children um as a mixed faith, mixed uh race couple, um, with I'm I'm sure very different worldviews and faith views, um, what that was like being unified uh or trying to be, I'm sure at times, uh, and and at times probably not so much, um, with raising your kids, what was that like for you two?

SPEAKER_02 15:27

Well, when we had the kids, we were going to the same church. So we we grew up different faiths, but we were both uh evangelicals at that time.

SPEAKER_03 15:39

Yeah. We had um different views on strictness with the kids. He grew up in a very strict home with an abusive father, if that's all right for me to say. He was an alcoholic and very strict. And so if you were told to do something, you did it. Yeah, there was no argument.

SPEAKER_05 16:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:06

And um discussion. Yeah, no discussion. And I grew up, I mean, a strict home, but yet nothing like that. I mean we weren't allowed to disrespect our parents, um, that type of thing, but definitely much more lenient than that.

SPEAKER_05 16:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 16:25

So when we adopt we adopted our son, our daughters, you know, are biological, but we adopted our son, and and we're pretty sure he has fetal had fetal alcohol effects. And so the discipline was different.

SPEAKER_05 16:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:42

Dealing with all of his behaviors, yeah. We we really struggled with that. He thought I was too lenient, I thought he was too strict, nothing we did worked, and so that that could have destroyed our marriage right there. But God intervened and kept us together. So how so um I left for two months, I think it was two months I left him, okay, and I went back home and um just God told me that not, you know, that I needed to go back. And so we weathered that. But it was also a time my brother was killed in a car accident um a few months before I we moved to Spokane and I started grad school. And uh a great uncle of mine that I cherished died suddenly of cancer. And I mean, it was just all of that happened within a few months. And um so I think that all played into it too.

SPEAKER_01 17:49

So yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_03 17:51

Yeah, so loss does a number on us.

SPEAKER_04 17:55

Yes, it does, doesn't it? Yeah, it does, even when we have faith, even when we know we're gonna see them again. Yeah, it's still it just it does a number on us at least. So I still want to hear about how you came back to the Catholic Church. I know you said God led you there.

SPEAKER_03 18:15

Was there anything that maybe you were struggling with or um I think one thing I remember vividly, um a few years after my brother, well, a few years after my dad died of cancer, he died of cancer on April 7th in the year 2001. And um a few years after that, I don't remember exactly, my nephew was killed in a car wreck on April 8th. And I was home, and um we we do it might be similar to native tradition, I'm not sure, but like um wakes, we spent spent the night with my nephew, and there were some Catholic priests. Um I don't remember where they came from or what, and they were there with us, and something about them I don't remember even what it was, but it started that awakening in me. Okay, and then um I don't even remember what else it was that led me back, but I just knew it was right, and um I ended up um Christine with CYT. Um I asked her to because I had never been confirmed, so I asked her if she would be my sponsor, and she agreed, and so I said, Well, what church do you go to? And it was Saint Aloysius, and that's how I ended up as St. Aloysius, which um I love, uh, I love it there, and I feel God's presence and I feel joy there, and yeah, so so that's how that happened.

SPEAKER_04 20:04

Yeah. Was it hard for you?

unknown 20:07

No.

SPEAKER_04 20:08

When she's like, I feel called to go back to the no, no, okay.

SPEAKER_02 20:12

Oh, because my parents went to different churches, so it just I was used to that.

SPEAKER_05 20:17

Okay, all right, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:19

And then you know, and I support her in the stuff that she does because that's what I'm supposed to do.

SPEAKER_03 20:26

And we weren't actually going to a church at that time. Okay. We had um had kind of a bad experience, well, with a couple churches. I won't go into that detail, but um, so we were kind of not going to church for a while, for a couple years, I think it was.

SPEAKER_02 20:44

Um and then we ended up, that's how, and then he I don't remember how he decided to it was kind of convenient because I was working Sundays anyway, so it was easy to not go to church.

SPEAKER_04 20:56

Okay, great, great, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:59

And then when we decided to go back, we went to a couple of different churches before she went back to the Catholic church.

SPEAKER_04 21:08

Just seeking back yeah, where where's our church home?

SPEAKER_02 21:12

Yeah, and then um I ended up eventually at uh Beltham, which I felt like okay, well, this is what I grew up with, and so I just gone back here.

SPEAKER_04 21:30

Yeah. Just that familiar yeah, that's beautiful. Do your kids attend either of your churches? Do you Vanessa?

SPEAKER_03 21:39

Um when I went back, she was around 12, 13, and uh he was going to Bethel then. And um Alexis goes to Holy Temple, Church of God in Christ. Okay and so we told Vanessa, I said, You have to go to church. So you can either come with me, go with dad, or go with Alexis. And she said, Well, why wouldn't I go with you? And um so she did she made the decision to become Catholic. Okay. And so she went through the process and um became Catholic. And um so she was married at St. Aloysius, even though Stephen isn't Catholic, but they they were okay with that. They went through all the training, they did everything, and so Vanessa goes with us. And Cassandra, who lives in Texas, has found a church in Dallas where she goes. And so the goal is staying connected to Christ, yes, right? And our son is um a born-again Christian and has been for several years and um is doing really well. So so God is is big in our lives, we just go down little different roads, but it's still it's still the same God at the end of each road.

SPEAKER_01 22:58

Yes, yes, absolutely. I love that. I do too. It's so true.

SPEAKER_04 23:02

I do too, yeah. So how did you you were a social worker for 30 30 years, 30 years ago?

SPEAKER_02 23:11

How long were you? Um technically seven years. Okay, but most of my jobs have been social worky jobs.

SPEAKER_04 23:20

Yeah. What led you into that field? It's a hard field. I'm a mental health counselor, and I specifically didn't want the degree in social work. I that's that's a hard field. It's a needed, it's a beautiful field, but it is a hard field. I want to know what led you there and maybe some of your experiences, both of you, in that.

SPEAKER_03 23:45

Well, God led me there, but not straightforward. I was always going to be a veterinarian since I was a kid because I grew up on a cattle ranch. Okay. I was gonna work with large animals, and um the reason we moved to Washington was so I could go to WFC Med School. Well, we had to establish residencies so I could get, you know, and so we ended up moving to the Tri-Cities. Um, I ended up going to community college there and started taking biology and chemistry, and that didn't go so well. And uh figured out I was probably not going to get the grades to get into that school. So for some reason I decided, hmm, maybe I'll go into law. Oh. So, and down there in the university center, they have different, you know, kind of like here, you can go to WSU here or Eastern here in Spokane. There's different classes. So I went to the University Center through Central Washington and got a bachelor's in law and justice. Well, what happened to me was halfway through that process, they canceled their law and justice program. And they said they assured us that we're halfway through our program. Oh, we're gonna we're gonna make sure you finish. Well, what happened? They'd have a law class and they'd cancel it. And so I was having to do substitute classes. Um, I worked with the professor at at Central and I did some correspondence, I did all this. Well, ended up quite a few of the classes were social work classes. And so I met the professors from Eastern in the social work program, and um started talking to them about getting a master's in social work, and that's how that happened. And so I'm sure my relationship with them through the classes helped me get into the grad school. Um, and of course, I went in with the thought that I was gonna change the world, you know how I'm looking back like at my statement I wrote, and I'm sure it was really Pollyanna. I'm gonna say it, you know. I was like, yeah, none of that happened. But I bet you made a difference. I'd like to think I did. But so that's how I ended up. So I I didn't start out to be a social worker. I never even considered it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:12

What was the nature of your work throughout throughout your career? Like what what specifically did you do?

SPEAKER_03 26:18

Well, the first 10 and a half years I worked in the hospitals. I started at Deaconess. I ended up working in the rehab area with um physical medicine and rehab, so it was spinal cord stroke, you know, all of that. When St. Luke's came about, um, Deaconess and um St. Luke's Hospital merged to make a rehab hospital, and we went with the merger. We weren't we didn't have a choice. It was either quit our jobs or go with the merger. And so, and then about nine months later, Sacred Heart came into the mix, and so we ended up, you know, that whole thing. And so that's how um St. Luke's Rehabilitation Institute came about, and I was there well, total ten and a half years doing um being a social worker case manager in the hospital.

SPEAKER_00 27:16

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 27:16

So I worked with spinal cord injuries and brain injuries and all of that, and then left for three years. I had Vanessa, she was little then, and and then um decided it was time to go back, and I saw an article in the paper that said social worker needed or case manager needed, and a phone number. And I called the number and it was aging and long-term care. And uh I said, That's my job.

SPEAKER_04 27:48

Wow, and I got it.

SPEAKER_03 27:51

She just claimed it. I claimed Monday I went into the interview and they said, Well, we'll get back with you by Monday. They called me the next day or that afternoon. I don't remember.

SPEAKER_04 28:04

Because it was yours and said it was mine.

SPEAKER_03 28:06

And uh so I was there about 13 years, I think, something like that, or not 13. Anyway, I don't remember how long, maybe 13. And then um I started working with them on a research project that was a three-year research project with the nursing school at um WSU, and we worked with Chav's patients. Wonderful. And um, when that was ending, I had decided I was no longer going to be a social worker. I was burnt out by then.

SPEAKER_04 28:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:40

And then I was on vacation at the Oregon Coast, and one of my friends called who had gone to work for Homer Community Services. She said, Colleen, you have to apply for this job. It's for you. And it was the state going into the hospitals to do assessments. Um and God just said, I need to go to do that, and that it was my job. And I went and I got the job, and that's where I was until I retired.

SPEAKER_02 29:08

Well, it's nice to do something.

SPEAKER_05 29:13

Interview 50 times.

SPEAKER_03 29:16

Well, but when you when you've listened and you know that God's telling you that you need to do that and that it's yours, then you know. Yeah. That's yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So that's how I ended up and that's what I did. Wow, for all those years.

SPEAKER_01 29:34

Well, you it sounds like you you cared for a lot of people at some of their most vulnerable times. I mean, that's that's the nature of the work with social work. Um what were some of the I would love to hear some of the triumphs and the challenges that came with that work that um, you know, may maybe brought you to your knees a couple times, I'm sure. Maybe once or twice.

SPEAKER_03 30:03

Yeah. Well, um one of the greatest pleasures I got was I worked with people from all over the world with aging and long-term care. We worked with um people who needed to be on Medicaid personal care and copes services to pay for caregivers. And we had a lot of immigrants and refugees, and I loved hearing their stories and um sometimes eating their food because you didn't say no. Right. You didn't want to offend and um just seeing the different cultures and then um having friends in those agencies too who were from you know different cultures, and so that was one of my greatest, one of my most difficult challenges was um knowing that there was fraud and not being able to do anything about it. So that was one of the things that was difficult. Right. So but um for the most part, it was more um good experiences than bad, I think. It's just the the biggest challenge is the paperwork. You know that in any job you do, government paperwork.

SPEAKER_04 31:22

It's a lot crossing your T's and dotting your S. Yes, yeah. Yeah. So when I worked at Frontier Behavioral Health, yeah. There was a lot of I mean, there's still a lot of paperwork now being in private practice, but it was a lot more working in community mental health than it is when you're on your own. A lot more. And that was always like you'd have a long day, and you're like, uh, I'm not done. For sure. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. What led you to social work?

SPEAKER_02 31:58

Um, well, when I was growing up, I was gonna be a professional football player.

SPEAKER_00 32:03

There you go.

SPEAKER_02 32:04

And somehow ended up in the military because I didn't get a scholarship, wasn't big enough to get a scholarship, so I was a little skinny guy. Um and I saw I was gonna be a coach and a teacher, is where I actually started.

SPEAKER_00 32:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 32:22

And when we moved to Spokane, actually, when I was in Tri-Cities, I started at CBC. And then moved here, I was gonna work for um, I was going to um SCC. Um so I was taking the education classes, all leading up to uh teacher certificate. Well, then once I got to Eastern, of course I was working full-time and trying to go to school. Um so by the time I got to Eastern, I was working at the prison. So I was working 4 a.m. to 12:30. Wow. Um, so then I would go from there to school. And I was taking classes. Well, no, back at the call community college, I couldn't get because I was working during the daytime. So I couldn't get the education classes. Yeah. And so then I had to start doing something different. Um so I ended up uh doing social work classes because those were all the classes that were available for a degree were in social work. Okay. That's actually how I ended up in social work. Um, I couldn't get the education classes, and you know, they rotate them every semester. So they're early in the morning in the morning or they're like 11 o'clock, 12 o'clock or something, and I'm still at work.

SPEAKER_05 33:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:53

So I couldn't do it. Um got my degree in my AA in social uh social science from the falls. And when I went to register for EWU, yeah, I did my homework. I'm thinking, okay, what classes can I get? Um, or what field can I go in? So at the falls, they told me if you take these classes, they all transfer to Eastern with the degree, right? So then I go to Eastern and then I talk to them, and they said, nope, you have to take these classes again, no classes. I had to retake social work. It was the same class. So I decided to just get the degree in social services, social sciences. And then that whole thing with transfer. And social work was the only classes that I could get. I couldn't get the teaching, the education classes um because I worked 4 to 1230.

SPEAKER_00 34:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 34:59

Was that disappointing? Um no, not really. Because I mean they were still working with people.

SPEAKER_05 35:06

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 35:06

Um and but teachers are they're basically social workers anyway. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 35:16

I agree. I agree.

SPEAKER_02 35:18

So, you know, most of the jobs I've had, like working in the prison, I did a lot of social work stuff. Of course. Um, I did some volunteer work trying to become a counselor there. That didn't work out because I wasn't in somebody's circle. So how long did you work at the prison? Nineteen and a half years. Wow. Yeah, I was an officer for five, and then I was food service for the rest of the time.

SPEAKER_01 35:41

Wow. What was that like for you working there that career?

SPEAKER_02 35:45

Um it was all right. It's you know, it's like watching, just watching people. Um supervising the the inmates or the residents or whatever you want to refer to as, you know, they change the name every three, four.

SPEAKER_04 36:02

Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:03

Um and you treat people with respect, right? So you treat people with respect. In turn, you get the respect. And I ask them to do something, whatever their job was. And I rarely had any issues with anybody because of the way I treated people.

SPEAKER_01 36:20

Yeah. Um absolutely. Kindness and respect and and treating others as human beings. Yes.

SPEAKER_05 36:30

What a concept. What a concept.

SPEAKER_02 36:36

It wasn't my job to punish them. No. No. I mean, especially like in food service, it was my job. The way I looked at it was okay, you're in here working in the kitchen, and a lot of people had no food service experience. So here was my opportunity to teach them how to cook or teach them how to give them some skills so when they got out, you could go to a restaurant.

SPEAKER_04 36:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:00

For sure. Some idea what you for sure want to do.

SPEAKER_04 37:04

Because the goal is when they get out to have some kind of future, to have some kind of skills and abilities. Because they already have the stigma that goes with them. They already have that. They can't run from that. Legally, they can't run from that. So they need skills. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:24

Yeah. So, you know, I would teach them just basic stuff of the different spices and stuff, which spices you can use with what. Um, and then the basic stuff that okay, I mean, if you don't have nothing else but salt and pepper, and you got basic uh rosemary, whatever. Yeah. And then you got these little chops that tell you which spices go best with the what, um, which makes it a little bit easier. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 37:50

So I have to ask, do you cook at home? She's nodding. Are you the cook?

SPEAKER_02 37:58

Oh, yeah.

unknown 37:59

Nice.

SPEAKER_01 38:00

I'm coming over beer now.

SPEAKER_03 38:06

I do I can cook too, but I I don't mind letting him cook.

SPEAKER_02 38:13

Yeah, you better call him before you come now because uh sometimes it might not be anything. Right.

SPEAKER_00 38:21

Yeah, true. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:25

So my social work journey began. My actual social work journey. One of the guys I used to work with as an officer, he called me and said, Hey, I have this job that I think you'd be really good at it. So it was at the Maple office, and the same job came open at the Trent office. And then I decided, because I had been applying for the same job, and I never got an envy, never got a call, nothing. So I applied for both those jobs. I told myself, I'm gonna get one of these jobs.

SPEAKER_04 38:58

That was with DSHS. Yes, yeah. Clarify. Yes, thank you for us in Spokane. We probably know what that is, but for our listeners outside of Spokane, yes, we have D SHS.

SPEAKER_02 39:10

I um applied for both jobs. Well, I called another lady that worked with us there, because she was working for the state now, and I said, Well, what do I need to do? I've applied for this job and I can't get an unmute. And she said, Well, just mirror what the app what the specs say. And um, so whatever it said in the specs for certain questions is what I used. Not necessarily that I did that, but that's what they were looking for. So I got the interview, interviewed at 10 o'clock at the Trent office, and I interviewed at 1 o'clock at the Maple office.

SPEAKER_04 39:47

Oh wow. Same position both places. Wow. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_02 39:52

And uh I was the number one candidate in both pools. So despite other people telling me I don't interview well in DOC, I did well in both those, and they hired me at the Trent Office. And I imagine because I interviewed their first and they made the decision to hire me already.

SPEAKER_05 40:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 40:10

Um, so I ended up there. Uh the best team I've ever worked on. Because we covered for one another. You know, and they they were patient with me, even though you know, coming out of corrections is a whole lot different.

SPEAKER_04 40:25

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 40:26

Being a social worker, you have to be able to do stuff on your own as a case manager. Whereas in corrections, here's what you need to do: you have a schedule, especially in food service. You have a schedule. And once you get them with breakfast, you break it down and get ready for lunch. So being a case manager, um, there's certain things you have to do, but a brand new case manager, I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 40:51

Yeah. Right. Like, um, I need a little answer.

SPEAKER_02 40:55

Yeah, so my team is so I mean, my like my first day, they showed me the stuff I needed to do, and then I was sitting in my cubicle. It's like, nah, what am I gonna do? I didn't know what to do. So I would go talk to one of them, like the one lady I talked to a lot. I would ask her questions, well, how do you do such such? And I call my work mom, even though she's younger than me. She's like, she was and she's like my mama, very patient, take time to explain stuff to you. And she would tell me, even though I probably asked her the same question 10, 15 times, well, how do you do this? But she took her time and was patient with me.

SPEAKER_05 41:33

So nice.

SPEAKER_02 41:35

But then we all work together, it's a great team.

SPEAKER_05 41:38

Nice.

SPEAKER_02 41:39

Uh, and I told them this is my retirement position. And so on my retirement thing, I have ABD for life. So I was an A B D social worker, age blind and disabled at the Trent Office.

SPEAKER_04 41:51

Age blind and disabled. That's very cool.

SPEAKER_02 41:55

Oh, and so of the four people that I work with are five, because we said we should get tattoos that said A B D for Life. Um, they made it for life. Uh but so working that job was uh single adults that had mental health or a physical um issue that kept them from work.

SPEAKER_04 42:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:25

And which, you know, I would get a lot of people that were 18 or 19 or 20 that said they couldn't work, but they could work. They just wanted to be handed some money, which wasn't a lot of money. It was $197 a month. Which you can't really do a lot with that. And so I would tell the youngsters, look, yeah, I would explain to them, look, you have to go, because when you turn 65 and you're trying to get benefits, there's nothing for you because you've been on the system all your life. You should at least give it a chance. Well, try to work. Even if you work at minimum weight, you maybe you're gonna make more than that.

SPEAKER_04 43:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:02

Rather than have to jump through all these hoops that I'm gonna set up for you. Because if you don't jump through these hoops, you're gonna get your benefits cut off. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 43:11

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 43:12

So and it was my job when I when they got a young person in there, they said, Where's Mr. Butler in?

SPEAKER_04 43:18

He's the pro. Let's bring him in.

SPEAKER_02 43:21

Yeah, so they let me do both of the youngsters.

SPEAKER_04 43:23

So you must have been successful at that. You must have been good at motivating them.

SPEAKER_02 43:29

Um, I would like to think so.

SPEAKER_04 43:31

Yeah. Because they're asking you to do that when they get a young person in, they're looking for you.

SPEAKER_01 43:36

So yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:38

It's good. It's good. It I feel like sometimes it's not, yes, there are definitely some people who are like, I don't want to work. But there are. I've worked with them. Yes, there definitely are. But there's also people who don't think they can.

SPEAKER_05 43:53

Right.

SPEAKER_04 43:54

And the people who don't think they can, to me, I love working with them. Because I love just when they when their eyes start opening to their own worth and their own value and like oh I I'm capable. I I love that. So I would imagine you've had opportunities to work with those who just they really think they can't. They're like, but I have learning disabilities or I have this and I can't do that.

SPEAKER_02 44:22

And when you get to see them I'm not going to point out, you know, have you tried such such have you tried this? Yeah. And maybe give them some options that, okay, so can you do this job? Or how about this job? You know, stuff that you don't think about when you're a youngster.

SPEAKER_04 44:40

Right.

SPEAKER_02 44:40

You never think about how many different uh job careers out there. For sure.

SPEAKER_05 44:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:48

And you know, I would have parents bring kids in when they turn 18 because they've been on Medicaid, Medicaid all their life. So when they turn 18, the government says, okay, you're grown up now, you can go to work.

SPEAKER_05 44:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:00

But they don't really have any mosquitoes.

SPEAKER_05 45:02

Right.

SPEAKER_02 45:03

For sure. And so maybe get stuck to take those kids and give them confidence and tell the parents look, we can doing the kid a disservice, you can't just keep them on the service, on state benefits or government benefits.

SPEAKER_05 45:21

Right.

SPEAKER_02 45:23

Because they can work. And you don't know if you can work unless you try. And when you turn 18, you go from one system to the other and you haven't tried anything else. Right.

SPEAKER_04 45:33

And what a difference you see in someone's um I even with depression, you know, when they start working, depression goes down. You know, it's that we feel better about ourselves when we're doing something. We really do. It doesn't mean that we need to do the 60-hour week crazy thing or whatever, but just to be contributing, to have something to get up and get dressed for and showered for, right, actually builds your self-confidence. It builds your, you know, just the way you feel about yourself and you feel better mentally. Which some people they feel so stuck in in that depression or anxiety or whatever the I can't, which depression and anxiety feed, you know, but they feel so stuck in that. And when they get, oh, I can't, and they start doing even if it's something, it doesn't have to be this power career, you know, but just having something to get up and showered for and something on their schedule where you're interacting with humans can make such a big difference in their lives. Like they're doing better, you know. I I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 46:44

Yeah, I had a lot of people that I dealt with in the prison system that I dealt with in as a social worker.

SPEAKER_05 46:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:53

And I had one lady come in, she's when she found out I was her social worker, she didn't want me as a social worker. Oh, because when I was worked in the prison, she was held to the standards. Here's her policies, here's what you have to follow these rules. And so she thought I would be a terrible social worker. But I told the boss, because she asked, she requested a new social work, and I told Boss that just never was when she would be fine. And she later found out that I was a pretty good social worker. She just didn't want to deal with me because she dealt with me on other fitness.

SPEAKER_04 47:31

Right, right. That's so interesting. That's so interesting. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:35

How did your work um individually and as a as a couple, how how did your work influence your parenting? And um I I guess maybe some conflict management that probably arose, you know, when your kids were were young or teenagers, or even now, you know, how how how does how does your background influence and um inform how you how you approach parenting?

SPEAKER_02 48:06

We had of course when we were parenting, we were younger, so we weren't well, she was a social worker, but I was I was still um doing what I was raised with. And of course, we had uh quite a few battles over that. That's true.

SPEAKER_03 48:24

Yeah, yeah. Well, and I I didn't didn't become a social worker. Um the kids were teenagers though. Well, let's see, 1990, so Tommy would have been seven. So um I was in grad school when he was, you know, when the the older kids were like seven, nine, and ten or so, right around that age. Um, all the things I went through, I think a lot of what I went through with Tommy actually influenced the kind of social worker I became.

SPEAKER_04 49:03

Oh, so your kids helped you to become a better social worker.

SPEAKER_03 49:06

Um and at that point, we we were kind of at a standoff. Greg Gregory, but it was great for me, pretty much just dug his heels in and not, you know. So I was the one who was pursuing all of the services and making them go to counseling, um, which we have a really bad experience with counseling. But um, so I had to go through all these different systems within the state. And uh at one point we had a social worker, case manager, who said, There's nothing we can do to help you. Put him out on the street and he'll get in trouble, and then you'll get some help. Literally said that to us. And it was like, oh, so I can so we can abandon our child, throw him on the street, then we could get charged for abandonment. And you're saying that's what he needs to get help? Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 50:13

That's your best solution.

SPEAKER_03 50:14

That's your best solution because of course our income level was above the threshold for getting state health, but below reality of getting health. Right. So we went through all the different we went through all the juvenile justice systems, we did all that, and so I saw how sometimes it doesn't work well. And then we ended up with a couple of case managers who fought for us and got us what we needed um at the time to protect our family because they fought for us. So I we saw the examples on both sides of what kind of a social worker to be. Yes. And so, more so than my career influencing that, I think that influenced my career, I have to say. Yeah. Wow. So yeah. So it was it was definitely uh a difficult time that we went through with the kids and and Tommy's behavior affected the girls, and Vanessa came along much later.

SPEAKER_04 51:25

I think your your path is so interesting because not only are you an interracial couple and been together a long time, you know, and you have these beautiful kids, but then you work in this career where you are working with people from, you know, you're working with the immigrants, you're working with people from different countries, you're working with inmates, you're working with people who are needing to get jobs, the disabled, and you're working with people who are just the marginalized and the people who often get ignored or put down or judged, sadly, a lot of times, judged, you know, and I just think it's so beautiful. I I do see that God brought you together because just even coming together in two different, you know, racial backgrounds, you know, coming together, you in learning how to manage your marriage. And it sounds like you went through a hard time, you know, you left for a couple months and God's like, you get back, right? You come back and you find a way to work through that has helped you to help a lot of people. Yes. Has helped you to help a lot of people, yeah. You know, and I know you went into it wanting to change the world in your life, but you did. You changed the world for that client, you changed the world for that individual. You did, and you did as well.

SPEAKER_03 52:56

Well, and even uh, you know, our son, who is is currently incarcerated, he spent most of his adult life in prison, but he's making a difference in prison. He's a mentor in prison, and even the the officers on that sometimes will come to him for help with other, you know, support. So he's known in the prison as being a mentor and is doing really well. That's great. And so, and even and our oldest daughter um has become an activist, and she works, she worked in the social security field for 18 and a half years until the current administration um made working for social security hard hard. And uh she now works for an attorney who um files suit against social security to get people on social security. So it's it's just interesting. But she does a lot of um activism, activist work within uh the prison system and that. And um both our other girls are are active and and that. And so I think it all has influenced the work that they do and this journey we went through with Tommy in a later. Um we we believe was a result of what happened before he was born. Of course, you know, and so but God never let us give up on him, yeah. And so that, you know, was just a whole another story through all that. But it's just um it's interesting to see how God works. Right when you look back over your life and you think, man, how did we make it through that? And then we see all the ways that God amen, that God held it together for us because we sure couldn't have on our own. There's no way, amen.

SPEAKER_01 54:53

It's incredible to take a step back and see kind of more that that macro overview of everything. Um see that you you, Colleen, were in in this spot, in this location, in this position, you grever, we're over here, and now your children are all we're all kind of creating this web of uh of love and support and um and advocacy um all together. You know, you like you said earlier, that you went into this career that that you that you held for so long with the idea that you were gonna change the world, and maybe you didn't, but you and Gregory and your kids, like wherever it was that you were standing, like made such an impact for for good and for light. Um, it's just really beautiful to to see that and and also to recognize, you know, with with your son making such a difference where he is in prison, you know. I think that there's again such a social stigma where oh well he's in prison, so you know almost a good for nothing, you know. But no, you're you're still human, you're still valuable, you're still a child of God, you still have worth, and you can still make a difference where you are. And and that's just so that's so powerful, and that's so beautiful to to hear and to see and to bear witness to.

SPEAKER_03 56:35

Yeah, thank you. And I think one thing too, that um maybe a lot of people don't necessarily volunteer information that they have a child that's incarcerated. But um we're very open about that, and I'm always very open and when they ask about my kids, and I'll say, Yes, you know, I have a son and he's currently incarcerated. And so many people have come to me later and said, I'm so glad you said that because I have a family member, and you know, and and um so that they they're afraid to provide let people know, and so you provide a safe space for them to talk about it. Yes, and so we need more of that.

SPEAKER_04 57:20

We need more of that, we need so much more of that in today's world.

SPEAKER_03 57:25

We need a lot of safe spaces.

SPEAKER_04 57:26

We need a lot of safe spaces, we need a lot of safe spaces for everyone, especially those who are marginally, especially those who are seen as different, who are seen as less than because no one is less than your son is not less than, no, no one is less than, and we need places for people to feel safe and valued and reminded that they have worth. I love this has been fantastic. Thank you. I know you're probably like, why did you ask us? And it has been fantastic. I really have enjoyed this conversation.

SPEAKER_01 58:07

Truly. Um yeah, I I think that it's so important for us to all remember um our own, you know, our own divine nature as uh as children of God, as uh as souls, as as spirits, uh, you know, having a having a physical experience. You know, I I love the quote that we're not we're not humans having a spiritual experience, we're spirits having a human experience. Um and to remember that and to recognize that in others as well, and realize that we really are all um we're all connected, we're all uh the same on some level. Um I I think that's just such a beautiful and powerful reminder. Um to again, thank you so much for being the example of of what it can what we can all be like to see humans as valuable as um and approach one another with love and with unity as as the goal, um, be it out of you know at times obligation, um but at the deeper heart of it, um just because of love, of love for each other, of um holding that respect for one another. Um yeah, I I would love to hear in summary what is it from each of you, uh how you think that we can all be more unified in our walk through life together.

SPEAKER_03 59:58

Well, um I think that if we are willing to actually listen to each other um and put aside our rigid beliefs, especially political right now. I think so much of it is political. And I know I'm on different political sides than a lot of my extended family, but we are still able to navigate through that. Um, I think if we're more willing to form a relationship with each other, I think that's the key. Relationships get to know a first um generation immigrant. Yes. Um, don't rely on what you're seeing on um Fox News or CNN or whatever stations you listen to. Actually, and I don't know how for people like back home how you're gonna do that when you're you know in the widest county in this nation. But at some point, you know, form relationships, get to know people. Yeah. Um be willing to have a conversation without putting up a wall. To me, that's how we yeah, that's how we do it. Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:15

Love that.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:19

I don't know that I can add any more to get to know someone. Um yeah. Um I think one of the things that we can do as humans is reach out to somebody that is different than you. I mean, even if you in an area where there's nobody different than you, once in a while you go someplace that you might see some somebody that's different than you. Um or be willing to listen to uh the other side. Or uh I shouldn't say the other side, that's a terrible. Um you should be you should listen to somebody else's opinion as opposed to deciding that, oh yeah, here's what he's like. And they're all like that because everybody is not the same. It doesn't matter if you're in the same group of people, yeah, yeah, or not. There's difference, differences in all the groups.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:21

Right, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:22

So they're not races. There's there's only one race that's just groups.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:27

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:29

Well, and I think differences aren't always as obvious as somebody's skin cover or uh a physical disability that is you know obviously. Yeah, yeah. And some of those differences, you know, might be from your your neighbor or somebody that you go to church with that you think you're on the same page and you're not, you know. Um so to to remember, remember that that we all have our different experiences when we and yet to hold space for that, exactly because they're all valuable.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:02

Right. They're all valuable.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:04

If you're a believer in in God, then you know what the greatest commandment is.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:10

Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:11

To love one another. To love one another.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:13

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:14

Um, love doesn't necessarily mean that I have to hug on you and have you not, but love. It means that you need to respect this person and give them space, or allow them space to be in your bubble, yeah, without saying, oh, you can't do that because you're such obsessive. You you can view love in a lot of different ways.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:38

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:39

Love is inclusive.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:41

It is inclusive. I keep thinking because maybe because we're sitting here together and we met at Christian Youth Theater where they do musicals, right? So I keep thinking about Ley Miz. And I keep thinking about the line and lame Miz, and I'm I'm so afraid I'm gonna butcher it.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:56

But it's I'll correct you if you don't worry.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:00

To love another is to see the face of God. To love another person is to see the face of God. Like that's what kind of like my closing remarks today on this podcast is to love another person is to see the face of God, right? When we love, truly love one another, we are closer to God. We see God in that.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:22

Absolutely. I'm curious um to to branch off of your last remark of giving your perception and perspective of uh a definition of love. How would you define love?

SPEAKER_03 1:04:41

Wow, that's it's a big question.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:46

How do you love others? Um how do you show that?

SPEAKER_03 1:04:55

I guess it I just feel like that's part of who I am. Um to accept you for who you are. Um at least to try to find ways to accept you for who you are. Does that make sense? It does sound like there are certain people in political power that I'm having a hard time accepting for who they are, but I know God calls me to love, and so that's a challenge. But um to me, love is um kindness, yeah, be kind, be caring, um you know, accepting people, yeah, listening to their stories, caring about their stories, taking time. That's love to me.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:54

Wonderful. I think that's a big one because my aunt used to preach that all the time when she was living. Take time out to spend with your loved ones or to spend with people that you care about. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:09

Was she the one who said while I yet live?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:16

Oh, yeah. So in other words, you don't wait till I die to come here. You know, you come see me while I'm living.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:22

Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:25

For sure. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:26

And to me, sometimes it's just um a smile when when you encounter someone and say, you know, good morning. And sometimes you'll see their reaction like, hey, she noticed me. She sent something to me. It's true. You know, it's so love doesn't have to be this huge um sacrifice. It's just in your everyday encounters with people you can show love.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:52

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:53

Exactly. Oh, that's powerful. Thank you both so so much for joining us. Thank you for asking. Thank you. Truly. Thank you. Thank you. And thank you to our listeners for joining us for another week of I'll walk with you. Until next time, go and show some love and see what you can do to hold space for a differing opinion or a worldview.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:17

Um we love you. Until next time. Have a great day.