Josh Taylor

Today we welcome Josh Taylor as our guest.

We met Josh over 17 years ago when our family was involved with Christian Youth Theater Spokane. Josh was an immediate light in all of our lives, greeting us with warm open arms and a big heart as soon as he met us. Among others at CYT, he welcomed us and made CYT feel like home. We were always so impressed by how outgoing and charismatic Josh was, but mostly by how well and how deeply he loved others. Josh is truly one of the kindest people that we have the privilege of knowing. 

In our years with CYT, we once asked Beth, Josh’s wonderful mother, why and how Josh was the way that he was. She told us that it was a choice that he made, to be like Jesus. The way he welcomed everyone into his heart is proof of that conviction that he had from the time he was just a boy. 

In his adult years, Josh has worked in ministry at Eastern Washington University in Cheney Washington working to fellowship and support young adults through the transformative time of their college years. His inspiration for this work came through his devotion to Jesus Christ, as well as his own experience as a young adult having similar support through those that came before him in this form of ministry. While he loves his work, he has found that his true overarching calling is to create gathering spaces for God’s children to come together in love and support. 

In his work, he has shared the walk with many people of all different perspectives, and he feels that through these other perspectives, he now is able to see life through a variety of lenses, deepening faith, understanding, compassion, and appreciation for all people. 

Josh is married to his sweetheart, Petra, and together, they are doing what they can to share the light of God, and be his hands whenever and wherever they are able. Josh believes that we are all able to do this work regardless of our career choices, occupation, or life path. 

Josh continues to be a beautiful inspiration to us and others through how he chooses to live, and we are so excited for you to meet him through this episode. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:13

Hello, everyone, and welcome back to I'll walk with you, the podcast where we have conversations about how we can all be more unified on our walk through life together. My name is Dakota Moses.

SPEAKER_00 0:23

I'm Rhonda Monson. And this is our awesome guest, Josh Taylor. Um, we met Josh, I don't even know, so many years ago when he was involved with Christian Youth Theater. We actually had the butlers on as well. So if these connections that last for years. But um, I know I already said it earlier before we start recording, but you um always get emotional. You just radiate love. Even when you walked into our home, we haven't seen you for years. It's just this love, and that's who you are. And so when Dakota suggested that we invite you on this, I was like, yeah, cool. I don't know what he's up to. But you made it where I know, like for my kids, I know for other kids, I know for us adults, we would, you know, other adults would talk to. You just had this way of I want you here and I'm happy you're here and I care about you. And you were just, I think when I first met you, you were probably like middle school age. Something like that. Yeah. Yeah. And now you and your sweet wife are doing ministry work for Eastern Washington University and working with students. So you've taken that just love of others, and now you've implemented it into your career and what you're doing with your life.

SPEAKER_03 1:51

Yeah, thanks so much. It's good to be with you guys.

SPEAKER_00 1:54

It's very cool.

SPEAKER_03 1:55

Very cool. Truly.

SPEAKER_04 1:57

Josh, give a brief introduction uh for listeners of who you are. Who is Joshua Taylor? Who is Josh Taylor?

SPEAKER_03 2:04

Um, I mean, I went up by JT, I think when we met. Forever. Yeah. And then you you graduate high school, you you try to uh figure out who you are. And like when I turned 21, I said, I'm gonna be Joshua and try that out, try that out. And I think it lasted for two weeks.

SPEAKER_04 2:32

Well, you're not in trouble, so who is Josh Tale? Josh Teller.

SPEAKER_03 2:36

Um, yeah, I am a fellow traveler on the journey that is life. Um I think it's been a joy to be in Cheney. Um grew up in Spokane Valley, but now my wife and I are in Cheney and have been for um a while now between undergrad at Eastern Washington and then being in ministry um out there. And so we love it. Um so I'm trying to figure out if I say that I'm from Cheney now, that it's been like almost half of my life that I've lived there. Um, or do I say that I'm from Spokane there? But yeah, a lover of um people, yeah, and then a lover of story. I just love um people's stories and the stories that are written, and I'm curious about those, about the story that's written throughout history as well. So yeah, it's a little bit about me. That's beautiful.

SPEAKER_04 3:36

Oh, I love this. One of the one of the recurring themes that keeps coming up with this podcast and all of the episodes that we've done. Uh, at the end of each episode, I uh we ask the guests, um, you know, in your words, how do you think that we can all be more unified on our walk through life together? And over and over again, everyone is saying something to the uh to the idea of stay curious, be curious about other people, um, listen. Oh judge. Yeah, yeah. So I love that you mentioned uh just that curiosity um right off the bat. We're we're to a great start.

SPEAKER_00 4:16

Yeah, absolutely. In your career, you walk along with people, like you kind of take put your arm around these students who may be struggling or have some questions or going through that transitional phase of life that it can be so difficult and you get to walk with them. Do you want to share a little more about that? I would love to hear more about that.

SPEAKER_03 4:42

Yes. Um, I mean, it's the greatest joy. It it's interesting because university in some ways is a revolving door where students are there for um two, three, four years and then they're off to their next thing. And so I think it's a privilege to come along during that formative time and to to walk with them for a short time. But I I do think that it feels like almost um seeds planted to where I might not I might not be the one to water those seeds or to see fruit or what they become, but I get to help plant those seeds or get to water the seeds that have been planted before and get to to see growth happen in these students' lives. And so yeah, I I can think of face after face after face of students that I've gotten to walk alongside and um see the change that can happen even in a small amount of time. But I do think that more than anything, that they've changed me. And that the way that they carry themselves and the excitement that they have, even the hope that they still hold for the future um changes me and makes me into a person that is more hopeful and more um yeah, I think curious about people and a person of love.

SPEAKER_00 6:07

Yeah. So how do they find you?

SPEAKER_03 6:10

Uh we we try to make ourselves available. So most days um I'm in the student union building. Okay. And um so they can find me there at a table. Um or like we also try to do different tabling events, or we try to be found um and not be off in the corners or like locked into secret rooms. Like we want to be a part of campus life and um yeah, be available. I think is the biggest thing for students. Awesome.

SPEAKER_00 6:45

Do you work with different students from all different faith backgrounds, different walks of life?

SPEAKER_03 6:52

Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_00 6:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 6:54

The beautiful thing about um a public university like Eastern is it is this beautifully diverse place. Um you have students a lot are from the area, but um that's we have international students that will come and study. We um yeah, just have every I mean every year there's a new freshman class that comes in from all over um the state, from the area, from uh out of state. So yeah, lots of lots of times to meet different kinds of people.

SPEAKER_00 7:28

Yeah, yeah. That is really great. I love that. Um can you share with us like a specific time maybe where you interacted with a student where you're like, oh, I think we're so different. And then as you work with them more, you realize maybe your work's so different.

SPEAKER_03 7:50

Yeah, I think that's a great question. I I think that um yeah, I mean, uh uh a relationship starts on common ground, right? Where you're you're looking for that thing with someone where, oh, I can connect in this way, or we're similar in this way. But I actually think that the most beautiful thing would be our differences. The fact that you, the student, would see life through a different perspective. Um it may challenge my perspective, but I actually think that that's good because it forms me and makes me into someone who now has a new perspective. Um yeah, I think that it almost is like um if you ever the movie National Treasure with Nick Cage, yeah, he's a treasure hunter, right? And uh there's this image of those uh glasses, the Benjamin Franklin glasses. And the thing about those glasses is that they had a uh a variety of different lenses on them, right? And with each lens that was put on or taken off, um, there was more to be revealed in the puzzle that he was trying to solve. And I think that for all of us that are walking through life, we have these different lenses, some that have been given to us from childhood, right? Um, but then as we go through life, we actually get to meet people and have new lenses added on to our perspective on life. Does that make sense? Oh, totally. I love it. And so I think it's a great analogy. The lenses are my life. Um I think that like, yeah, Mary and Petra, we met at Eastern in undergrad, and um, she's someone that has changed my perspective on life for the better. Um, my life is now colored through the lens of knowing her and the way that she grew up, um, the way that she sees the world, the way that she loves people. And so I think that like, yeah, every person that I get to meet and the ones that I get to know deeply are people that become this like lens, this perspective that now I get to see the world through. So I'm curious, even for you guys, like what are the lenses that have been added on to your life?

SPEAKER_00 10:08

Oh my goodness. Um one of the examples I share, and I don't know if I've shared it on here before, but um working in my field as a mental health counselor. Um, I started in private practice, um, went through a divorce, needed benefits, needed set income, right? Yeah. Those things are important. And so I ended up getting a job at um community mental health frontier behavioral health. And it it was a place I did not want to work. I didn't want to work with homeless, I didn't want to work with addicts. I I that's just not the clientele I wanted, you know? And one of my first clients who came in um was homeless, was an addict. Um, like her language was more than a sailor. Like I've never heard anybody talk like that in in my life, you know. And I was just like, in my mind, my first thought was, this is exactly why I didn't want to work here. And instantly the spirit was like, she is precious to me. And I was like, Oh, I need to repent. I need to love this person and serve her and walk with her and um worked there for three years and the entire time worked with her. Um, she didn't really change a lot during those three years, but her and I had both cried when I left because she felt safe with me and I deeply cared for her. And instead of her being like this, oh my goodness, not a person I want to interact with, she became very human to me. And that experience has changed that's probably one of the biggest lenses for me, just like completely changed how I look at people and realizing that all are precious to God. And who am I to judge anyone? Like we're all precious, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:10

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 12:12

Um, one of mine more recently has been opening up myself to just different ways of viewing the world, like different philosophies, different faiths, different um religious practices. Um I actually I felt very strongly for I it's pretty obvious for anybody who knows me or listens, but I grew up within the LDS Church, um, married to a man, and so that completely disrupted everything. Um but I I have a very firm background and foundation within um within the LDS church specifically, but just Christianity. Um and I felt very strongly prompted by um I I believe by God uh to read the Bhagavad Gita, which is uh a Hindu book of scripture based on the Vedas, which is the the oldest um religious text in the world. Um and I was like, hmm, God, that's an interesting, that's an interesting thing for me to read, you know, having this Christian background. Sure, why not? So I ordered a book, um, you know, just online, and it came and it completely disrupted my life in the most beautiful way. Um and it it didn't it didn't shake my faith uh as far as uh how well it it did. Um it it evolved my faith um in in so many ways. And um it's more like right in the introduction of the book, you know, it says this is not for one religion, this is for all humanity, right? Um and it talks more just about spiritual truths, and it's the best way that I can describe it is that it's kind of a how-to guide of how to just be a good person, uh, as a soul, experiencing life in a body. Um and that completely shifted my perspective of of the world, of um who I am within my nature um as a being, as as you know, spirit spiritual being, experiencing the physical, physical world, um, not the other way around. Um, but also it opened my eyes so much to just the the greater goodness and the greater truth that I believe all mankind um has the right to to have. Um I believe that God loves all of his people, all of his children. Everyone who is having a physical experience in this world is greatly and deeply loved. And with that, I believe we all have access to um eternal truth. We all have access to um connection with with the divine, whatever it is, uh by whatever name we use to describe that uh indescribable I am. Um and it softened my heart so much. I didn't I didn't feel like I had a hard heart, um, but it softened my heart so much to other people's experience. It gave validity to um to other people's faith practices that maybe before I felt uncomfortable with um because it was different from my own. And I realized um in this, among with along with other things, of course, uh, but but I realized with this um that really we're we're all just doing our best. We all uh and again, we are all loved and we are all um supported by um by God and and and loved by him. Yeah. So that's that's been one of my greatest uh my greatest new lenses that's yeah that's been um that I truly prayed for and I felt um very, very blessed uh to have that broader perspective. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:48

Yeah, and that's the word for it is blessed to be able to experience these shifts in perspective and this uh clarity, like greater clarity as each lens is added. I think that we see more clearly what the world is like, who people are, what God is like. Yeah, so I'm grateful that uh I'm also like wanting more of that perspective, right? I want I want more chances to meet more people and hear their stories and hear how they view the world because I think that in turn it would help me see the world more clearly. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 17:29

It is amazing when you take time to listen to someone's story. Yeah, I I can't think of as far as like career goes, for me, you work in ministry, which is great because you get to hear people's stories and I get to hear people's stories. And even as a hairdresser, you get to hear people's stories. You know, I can't think of a better thing than to hear people's stories. I feel like it is the most sacred space ever to just be in space with someone when they open up and they share parts of them and they're vulnerable. And maybe okay, for me, a lot of times it's trauma and heart things, but oh my goodness, that is sacred. And as they share and open up, I just there's just this heart softening for me. I change, I grow. I feel like my clients all make me a better person, honestly. Um, because you know, you read their intake or whatever, and you're kind of like, oh, this is gonna go this way. It never goes the way I think it's gonna go ever, because the story takes us a certain way. Yeah, you know. Yeah. So I I love that. And I love how you introduced that the giving, the stories, because I love listening to people's stories.

SPEAKER_03 18:44

It's interesting because Dakota, you and I met telling stories on stage. We met through the theater community. Um, and that's an interesting experience because you're almost trying on different people's different character stories. And I think looking back, uh, I'm like, I wonder if I really knew myself because I was trying on these different characters so often. Um yeah, I don't know if you can speak to your experience too. Well, and that's confusing because you're on stage as someone else, and then people are applauding, and then they're like engaging with you. And so the question is like, wait, who am I in this? Am I am I there? Am I not?

SPEAKER_04 19:34

Absolutely. I can definitely speak to that, and I couldn't agree more. Um, when I when I was growing up, I had a decently low self-esteem. And I wanted to, I was just a big validation seeker, yes, right? And I realized, oh, people like it when I sing, so I'm gonna sing. And um I attached so much of my identity to my ability to perform. Um, and uh exactly as you said, within theater, I'm performing as somebody else, not myself. Um, which I loved the applause, I loved the praise, I loved the recognition that that gave me. But at the end, it felt so empty because I and I still love it. I uh and I'll get to that, but it felt so empty. We had those encouragement sheets on um down the hallway of the of the basement of the theater, yes, uh, one for each kid in the show or involved with the show, and we all got to go around and write uh compliments, and unfortunately, uh lots of people wrote not nice things, so that wasn't a great thing always. But um, but I would go around and write, you know, encouragements for other people, and I would read what was being said about them. I'm like, oh, I couldn't agree more, you know, they're a great friend, they're a great listener. Um, I I love their light too. Um, and then I would get back around to mine and I would I would have comments, but it was always, oh, I love your voice. Wow, I you have such a beautiful voice. I wish I could sing like you. I love, I I love how you sing. I you are you're great on stage. I'm like, well, what about what about me? That's like that's what I do, but what about me?

SPEAKER_01 21:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 21:39

Um, you know, I I craved again, I craved that validation, but really what I needed um was to be seen uh as for for who I was. Um so exactly what you what you you were saying, when I would perform on stage as somebody else. I kind of lost who I was in that.

SPEAKER_02 22:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:05

And later in life, you know, I wanted to um get back out on stage as me and sing um sing songs that told a story of who I was in my life. And that was a completely different experience. And um I think that it became so much more beautiful to kind of bear my soul um through through music to show not only who I am, but also um inspire others through uh personal experience. Um but I love what you also said about being an actor. I I think that when when you're grounded and rooted in who you are, I don't know, I don't know of many other more powerful and beautiful opportunities to understand other people. Yes. Um that's the shift, isn't it? Yes.

SPEAKER_03 23:10

Yeah. Drawing from something that is true of you, yes, and bringing it into the character.

SPEAKER_04 23:15

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 23:16

Instead of maybe just putting on the focus of the character.

SPEAKER_04 23:20

Exactly. And I don't think I understood that growing up.

SPEAKER_03 23:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:23

Like you said, I I felt I felt kind of lost in it. It felt like, um, well, who am I in this? Um, but now, you know, when I approach an acting role and recognizing who I am um as a child of God and recognizing the value that I that I have innately within me, um, and within everyone, then I feel like I can embody this story and bring it to such a greater, greater life, um, which I think is just so, so beautiful. It's a beautiful opportunity for me to get to know somebody else and a different perspective, a different lens better.

SPEAKER_02 24:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:05

Um and to and to share that with others. Um, I think it's a really powerful experience.

SPEAKER_03 24:11

I agree. And I think the memories that stand out from that time as kids doing theater, it's not necessarily a full house or the sound of the applause. I think it is the backstage times together. It's the rehearsing those moments spent collaborating and being a cast.

SPEAKER_02 24:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:35

I think that's what sticks out to me. Not the like pride of like, oh, this was the role that I had or this, but it was always like, oh, we did that thing. Like we did that together. Yeah, we're sweaty afterwards, and we're tired, and we're gonna go get ice cream afterwards. But it was the offstage moments, I think, for me, that I look back, I'm like, oh, that was what I loved about theater. Yeah, that community of theater. Absolutely. Stories were wonderful to tell and need to be told. Um, but I think it was that camaraderie, that past experience.

SPEAKER_04 25:16

The real genuine community. Yes, yeah, yeah. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 25:21

Which I'm so grateful for. Yes, me as well. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:24

Do you do any kind of theater anymore?

SPEAKER_03 25:27

I don't, I haven't since uh 10 years ago. Wow.

unknown 25:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 25:33

Yeah. There I go and watch and participate in that way. Yeah. Um, and my family still does a lot of it and is very involved. Um, but yeah, I I don't get to as much. Right. Who knows if something that'll be that?

SPEAKER_00 25:50

Do you do any kind of like leading worship at your church or anything that way?

SPEAKER_03 25:55

Yeah, there's some I think music will always be a part of my life.

SPEAKER_00 25:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 25:58

The family that I grew up in, it's hard not to. Yeah, for sure. Um and I think that music is something that helps tell a story and it helps connect us to something greater. And to go back to like it's better together. Music is better when it's in harmony with other people. You can sing a melody and it's can be the most incredible melody that's ever been made. But when you add voices to it, when there's a choir, when there's these different parts to it, then it just becomes even more beautiful. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:33

Absolutely. I completely agree. Um, just had the opportunity this last Sunday, and I wasn't feeling very good. We just put on a huge Easter event at our church during Palm Sunday weekend. And I went to bed Saturday night. I'm like, I think I'm getting sick. I don't know, just uh I'm done, you know. It was a big event, and I was part of the committee in charge. Tiny part of that committee, but very, very big event. And Sunday morning I woke up and I was just like, no, we're supposed to sing choir today. We're supposed to, you know. And I I love that I love to sing in choir because it really got me out of bed and it got me there, right? We had to be there really early. Well, 8, 10. That's really early for me. So we had to be there really early for choir practice before the our our service. And I just coming in, the music's already playing because I was a few minutes late, and just going up there, grabbing my music, opening it up and starting to sing this Easter hymn. Just um, and you're right, with that collective voices and friends by me and hugging me as I come in, you know, and just I love choir. Choir to me is like it's soul food for me. It really is genuinely soul food for me when I can worship my savior and my heavenly father in this collective group that are worshiping as well. It's I love it so much. And it was so good for me because my day started that way. We sang in service, and it was really powerful and really beautiful because we have a testimony of the risen Lord, right? And that's what we were singing about. So it came across. And then that evening we have choir again for another meeting coming up. So it was choir singing in this, and then another choir, which was even bigger, but it was so powerful and I was just so filled. And I came home that evening and I was just like, I'm so grateful. I'm so grateful that not feeling well didn't keep me in bed. I'm so thankful that this we're singing, I need to get up there and I need to go, you know, motivated me because that's how I feel the spirit so often. Not that I don't when I'm studying my scriptures, I do, and not that I don't in other ways, but the probably the number one way for me is music. Like music is so powerful for me. It just connects me to God. Yes. And so I love that. But I want to hear from you maybe like, what's maybe one of your favorite roles you've played or a song that you've sang that you're like, yes, like you're testing the memory now. And it and it can't be even at church, yeah, doing some kind of worship song.

SPEAKER_03 29:20

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a great question. I I think that I um might need to go back to my last show with CYT. We did Suce the Golden Musical, and everybody in the whole world does fusical musical three times, right? Like in your life, you will always do if you're a theater kid, you will always do soups. I think but there is a song at the end, and this was the last show in my like career with CYT, Christian movie theater, and there's a song at the end that is like all the things you can think. Think in wonder and dare, far and wide as you dream. And I think that there was something um almost like transcendent about singing that with the cast and hearing their voices, and I think I I I do I do I remember being choked up to where I couldn't even join my voice um with the cast, but they sang for me in a way, and those words of like wow, there is this um beauty in the world, and there are things to come, and there is hope for the future. Um, all of that kind of collided into this moment that I don't think I'm ever gonna forget being at the Bing Crosby Theater singing those words with those people in that moment. I love that.

SPEAKER_00 30:46

Yeah, I love that. Now I'm like, now I've got to listen to it again. I mean, I can kind of hear it in my mind, but now I gotta listen to it again.

SPEAKER_03 30:54

It won't be the same as going back there to that.

SPEAKER_00 30:56

Yeah, for sure, for sure.

SPEAKER_03 30:58

Yeah, but yeah, beautiful words, yeah. And I do think they think even with like the podcast being walk with me, like we were not meant to walk alone, like we need companions on the journey. Absolutely, whether they're singing with us on the way or whether just walking with us, keeping company. I think we need each other on the staff.

SPEAKER_00 31:20

We do. While we were in Kenya, um, I had the opportunity to um do a women's um health training day for the women there. And my friend was there and she's a midwife, and she came and she did a lot about physical health for women. And then I got to talk about mental health for women, and one of the things I talked about is you need each other, you need each other as women, get together, you know, go for a walk together, just get together, be together, share your burdens with one another so that they are lighter because it can be so lonely and so isolating. And we do, human beings, we weren't meant to be alone, we weren't meant to be isolated, and some people are extroverts and some people are introverts, and of course we get to honor that. You know, not everybody's like, be with me all the time, because that can be unhealthy. But we do need others to walk with us in life. We need others that when we're really struggling, that we can pick up the phone and shoot a text, you know, or call. We we need someone that we can just kind of melt in their arms if it's really that heavy. Um, we we're not meant to be alone on this walk of life. Life isn't easy, and we need others.

SPEAKER_03 32:39

I think we need different kinds of people to uh to use like the the walk, the path analogy. Like I think we do need a guide that has gone ahead of us that knows the way forward. I think there's so much wisdom to learn from our elders, from the saints that have gone before us. There's wisdom there that we so we need a guide. And then I think we also need companions that are gonna come alongside of us, maybe their peers, but people that we can walk with. And then I also think the the beauty is we need to become people that become guides for the ones behind us. Um, we need people that we're pouring into, that we're bringing along that that journey of life that come next, right? And so um, I think I at every stage of my life I want to have those three kinds of people with me.

SPEAKER_00 33:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:32

I I need to have a guide that's gonna bring the wisdom that I need that can speak to the fact that, oh, I've been there before that it's gonna be okay. Or I've been there before, this is how I experienced this, this is how I learned from it. And I need those people that I can text and that can be a close peer, a shoulder to cry on, that can walk with me in that way. And then I think that all of us need people that we're gonna pour into that will be the people that will carry the baton when we pass it on to them and keep going on the path that is life and love.

SPEAKER_00 34:07

Yeah. Oh, absolutely. I agree. I'm a little further along on that path than both of you. And I will say I still need the person, you know, the mentor, the leader, the one that's guiding me, you know. And then I absolutely need my peers. I I need I need them, and I hope and pray that I'm helping others as well. So I I love that. We do need that. I have a question for you, and I'm so in my head that I'm gonna kind of butcher how it comes out. Yeah. But I spoke with your mom years ago, and I'm like, JT, oh my goodness, your son. But I'm gonna, if you can't tell, I've always just thought you were great. But anyhow, I'm just like, he's so great, he's so loving. And she made the comment to me that that was something that became intentional for you. That there was a time or something for you that you were like, I want to be this kind of person.

SPEAKER_01 35:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:07

Do you know what? Can you speak more to that? Or should I call your mom?

SPEAKER_03 35:13

Get it on the phone. From the friend. From the phone. I'd like to call it in. Um, I I do think that that desire to be loving and to exemplify that came from um being enraptured with the person of Jesus. I think that when I look at Jesus' life, I see someone who always went to the people on the margins. He went to the outcast, he went to the people that no one was with. And those were the people that he spent time with, um, ate meals with. And and so I think that there was this, and I don't know if it was a moment or just this deep desire to become more like Jesus in that way. Um but I think that's what motivates me. I think that that um yeah, Jesus is just a person that fascinates me. The way that Jesus lived on this earth is someone, is a way that I want to, I want to live. I want to be marked by the per by being a person that is with the marginalized, that is like sitting and eating meals with those who are outcast, that shows the love of God in that way, in a way that's tangible. Because I can know that God loves me, I can read it in the scriptures, I can hear it time and time again. But until someone is like touching me, embodying that love, then um, then I'm in that moment I'm convinced that I'm loved, right? I'm convinced that there is someone uh that loves me. And I think that it is the reason um that Jesus even became a human, right? To be able to touch people, to be proximate to people, to live on this physical earth. Um I think that's like was and always has been the plan is to say, like, I'm gonna be near um my children, that God will come down and that you be close tangibly through the person of Jesus. So I want to be like that. I want to I want to be become more and more um the hands and the feet and the words of of Jesus, the one that I'm trying to follow and be like that is why I've loved you all these years.

SPEAKER_00 37:41

I mean, tears come to my eyes. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 37:44

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 37:44

Thank you. Yeah, because he's the goal. Yeah. That like the ultimate goal and everything that we do right and loving one another. And yeah. It's beautiful.

SPEAKER_04 37:57

Yes. Who I mean, who better to model our lives, our actions, and our hearts after than the perfect example of um who we can all do good to be more like?

SPEAKER_02 38:14

Yeah, yeah. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 38:18

I'm curious, um, within within your own journey to where you are now, um, what have been some of those moments where you feel um like it will you know break you to move on or or go forward, or times where you found yourself, you know, in in the arms of a loved one, like with uh you know your head on their shoulder. Um I would love to hear just times where again, maybe you you weren't certain if you could move and go on uh and how how you came through.

SPEAKER_03 39:04

That's a great question. I as I hear you ask the question, I think um what comes to mind first is um I think that we live in a world and a culture that wants to move on to the next thing, that is in a hurry to to get somewhere or to become someone and to make an impact. And I think that the time the moments that um I'm spent and in tears are the moments that I feel just exhausted. Um I think that there are there have been times where it's like I feel like I can't go on because I physically can't take another step. Um because spiritually I'm tired, because the world is such that there's only hate and no love. It's like I just want to sit here and like just weep about it. Um and the world, I think, has this pressure to be like kick it over it, like move on, like time to kind of get up and go, like there's better things ahead. Um but for me, I think that I've um embraced this lowness and um taking and trusting that things take time. If that makes sense. Yeah. Um I think the most beautiful things if we're to learn from the the book of creation, I think the most beautiful things are things that take time. A tree is not formed in a moment. The um a seed takes time to come up from the ground, and flower canyons are built over time as water flows through them. And so I I actually want that to be true to my life more and more. I want to be someone who's okay with trusting the pace of creation and slowing down enough to trust that change will come, but it doesn't need to happen quickly. And the times that I hop on the treadmill that says keep going faster, become something, do something, achieve, achieve, achieve, those are the moments that break me down and exhaust me and um because I can't keep up. And I don't think I'm I'm supposed to keep up. I think the beauty of being human and living on this earth is um I don't need to keep up. I can be slow and I can trust that in slowness there's beauty to come.

SPEAKER_00 41:47

I love that so much. I keep thinking about just um characteristics, you know, of Christ that I want to implement in my own life, you know, that I think about 20, 30 years ago that I would pray about and I wanted it so much, you know. And now I'm here I am 20, 30 years later, and I'm more not that not there, I haven't arrived. And that's okay because that means there's still so much more growth for me. But it we don't have to, we're not going to, and we shouldn't just be a different human the next day. Now, some people do have really profound spiritual life changing. They are one person one day and then another person the next day. I've seen that in in one of my own siblings. I saw that definitely a come to Jesus moment that he changed from that moment on, you know. But most of us, it is that slow and trusting the process and seeking and wanting it. And then we can look back and go, wow, look how far I've come. And it's and and having patience in that. And it's all it's all good because that's the desire. The desire is, you know, maybe it's forgiveness, you know, and it it's not easy sometimes when you've really been hurt by someone to forgive. But if that's the desire of your heart, truly, and you give that to God again and again. This is my desire. I need your help, you know, you will get to that point. And it's going to be gradual, and it's not even going to be a day where you're like, oh, I finally done it. It's going to be a time when you look back and you're like, I don't hold anything. Yeah. I hold nothing ill towards you because my desire was to forgive, you know, and oh my gosh, I'm here. You know, where you're like, wow, I think about that with my relationship with your dad, you know, and how I was so caught up in my own hurt and my own struggle, you know, that I I didn't have as much compassion that now I look back and I'm like, wow, he was going through a whole heck of a lot. And now I have a lot more compassion, you know, because I always wanted compassion. I always wanted to be compassionate, but I was in my own heart. And so having that desire to have compassion, I have it. I can look back and now I really have it. And, you know, we're divorced and he comes to a lot of family gatherings and he's always welcome. Like the other day, he just showed up. I'm sure somebody invited him and it was cool. And it was just like, great, you're here. Awesome. There's just nothing I don't have this negative feelings that I did because of that hurt.

SPEAKER_01 44:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:38

You know? And so I think the process, that slow growth, just what's in your heart. Keep that in your heart. Let that grow and trust that it will. Trust that it will bloom because it will.

unknown 44:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:54

And it takes time. It does. And in that time, we get lots of growth. Yeah. And we get lots of experience. I don't like it. No, I don't either. I just never.

SPEAKER_03 45:04

But I do want to become. I think it's like, yeah, I want to become someone. And becoming doesn't happen in an instant. Unless. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:15

No.

SPEAKER_03 45:15

We're formed over over time.

SPEAKER_00 45:17

Yeah. Right. Isn't and isn't that beautiful? Yes. Because it shows how patient God is with us. He really is incredibly patient with us.

SPEAKER_01 45:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:26

And forgiving of us. And just like always like, come on, you could do it. Like he's just right there. Like it's not this. I don't know. It's I'm I'm I'm learning this. I feel like I'm just starting to, and here you are so much younger, and you're there with that knowledge. I'm learning this. And I'm just like, wow, he's so patient. Yeah. He's so patient with us. Yes, he's always inviting us to be better. Of course he is, because he wants the best for us. But he's so patient. It's like, okay, you screwed up. Let's go again. You know? Okay, really? I can try again. The 20th time I can try again. The hundredth time I can try again. Of course. Of course. There's no, there's no end. So good. It's just keep trying. Let's do this. You got this. It's really cool. God, it's cool.

SPEAKER_04 46:22

I'm curious to know how you landed upon the career that you have now. Yeah. Um, I mean, of course, it's in in completely intertwined with your goal um of becoming more like Jesus.

SPEAKER_02 46:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 46:42

Um, however, you know, you can do that in so many ways. How did you come to um how did you come to where you are? What was there was there a moment or a series of moments um of of calling, or was there um what did that evolution and process look like for you?

SPEAKER_03 47:07

Yes, love that question so much. Um I because I agree, I think that we can follow Jesus in any career, any occupation. I have an opportunity to be liked and love in that way. And for me, I think that it comes back to the guides that I had before me. Um the people that I was able to walk and follow, the ones that were pouring into me when I was in college, um, have drastically changed the person that I am because there are people that love Jesus and wanted him to wanted me to become more like him. Um, and so I I feel like I thrived when I was um in like around ministry spaces in college, and I wanted that thriving for other people too. And so I think that I said, like, okay, I'll try it out for I think it was like three years. I was like, let's take this time. I'm still young, then I'll figure it out. Um, to to pour into college students and and be there for them to support them. And three years turned into six years, and now it's been 10 years of doing it. And the thing that has um changed, um my career hasn't changed because I've I've still been at the same university, doing the same kinds of things. But what has changed is a clarity of the calling that I think that God has given me for this time and this place. And the calling is to be a person that creates meaningful spaces of belonging. That's what I want to do for the rest of my life. And at this moment, in this time and in this place, I get to do that in ministry. I get to be on campus and create spaces of belonging there. And maybe someday it'll be a different spot, a different career. Who knows? God knows. Uh, but I do want to wherever I go, for as long as I live, I want to be someone that does that, that creates spaces of belonging for people. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 49:22

Oh, absolutely. And that's the most Christ-like thing to do. As people, that I think that we can do is to give that space to people, no matter who they are, no matter what walk, no matter what political stance, no matter what any any difference might be to give a space of belonging. I think it's one of the most Christ-like things we can do.

SPEAKER_03 49:49

Because that's what he did. Uh Jesus chose this misfit cast of 12 people to be his apostles from every walk of life. Right. Right.

SPEAKER_00 49:59

And they like didn't like each other. Oh, yeah. Like you think about it, because they're like, hmm. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:03

Why'd you choose him? There were radicals in the mix, there were political people, there was blue-collar. Yeah. Those are the people that he chose to spend his time and kept company with. And yeah, he he did that. So why wouldn't I surround myself with this um misfit cast and a variety of people and learn from them and um be changed by them and create these spaces of of loving, belonging? I think it's so important. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 50:38

Yes, that is so powerful. And I think also it just is a wonderful reminder as well, going back to what we were speaking of at the beginning, that we we we need each other, we're meant to be with one another, we're meant to love one another and support each other, and um, and not just the people that we agree with, not just the people that um that we immediately get along with, not just the people that um see the world or see God or see religion and politics the same way. Um you know, it in fact we're we're we're called to love our enemy, to uh to pray for them, to um to invite and welcome others into into our hearts, into our lives. Um I think that is just such a beautiful and profoundly good thing. Um, whenever we are able to hold space for each other. Um I was thinking yesterday, I wear a necklace, um, it just has like it has some people would call it like the evil eye or whatever, but I just think of um I just think of it as a reminder to keep an eye single to the glory of God. And um so I um I try to do that, you know, in my life. And I don't know what I thought of before when I when I had that goal, but I had kind of um an eye-opening experience yesterday, um, where I just realized like, oh, the glory of God is everywhere, the glory of God is everything, the glory of God is in everyone. Like we are the most beautiful creation we have and the glory of God is in the sunset, his glory is in the very breath that fills our lungs, um, in every good and lovely creation that he has provided us, and also in all good and lovely human inventions and art that have been inspired by him for us to create in this existence, in this, in this realm, in this plane. Um the glory of God is everywhere. And so to for me, that shifted again. It was just kind of an another one of those lenses where it broadened my perspective from just oh, here is this being that I can't really see, but I can kind of feel here and there, to oh the glory of God is everywhere. The glory of God is in all things if we choose to see it. Yeah, yeah, um, and see it in others as well, and in the work that they're doing, yeah. Um, and in the work that that we can do. I love that you how you said uh that you want to be God's hands um and do his work. I think that all of us have that um that capacity to to do that. Um I think that all of us, you know, we each one of us have that innate goodness and connection within us. Um that provides the means for us to um to just bring good into the world.

SPEAKER_02 54:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 54:47

Uh I I love that we can help in in the process of co-creation um and help bring heaven on earth.

SPEAKER_03 54:59

Yeah, and maybe the invitation is to look to be intentional about looking for that glory in creation in others. Yes. Because if I'm not careful, I'll just keep my eyes down, either internally to myself, to my phone, to anything else. Yeah instead of looking up and looking around and intentionally seeking out the goodness that you're talking about. I um over winter, uh things get dark, maybe, and uh I was in my fuels a little bit. So I was like, what do I need? I need some poetry. So I turned to poetry, and I found this um poet um who is a farmer in Kentucky, and their name is Wendell Berry, and there is this beautiful poem, and I I should memorize it because I think it meant so much. But Wendell Berry ends one of their poems with this imagery and this prayer, and they say, I want to be someone who is quiet of heart and clear of eye, and I think that I want that for myself too. I want it for everybody. And it goes to what like it reminds me of what you're talking about, Dakota. Of can we see the glory and the beauty and the love around us? Can our eyes be clear enough to notice those things? And can we be quiet of heart to where we get to listen for the voice of Creator? Listen to the love that is existing there in a world that is so noisy, that is so loud, distracted, and a world that encourages us to look in on ourselves. Can we become people that are quiet of heart and clear of eye? That's what I want. That's beautiful.

SPEAKER_04 56:56

Yes, it's a very powerful invitation.

SPEAKER_00 56:59

It is because I know for myself I get caught up in the loud, I get caught up in the chaos, I get caught up in the difference, you know, and it's so important to quiet that and then look. Yeah, absolutely. I needed that reminder today.

SPEAKER_04 57:19

Yes. And we all have the we all have the ability to do so. Um yeah, we all we all have that that capability. Um, I think so often we put um we put our emotional um or spiritual well-being, um, we displace the the responsibility for that on others, like, oh well, they did this to me, so that that's why I feel this way. Um, or you know, this happened in my life, or my car broke down, so that's that's why I'm having a bad day. Um, and I think that it's so important for us to remember um that we can still choose to be still and we can choose to have that calm and allow that divine presence to come through in all of it. Um and yeah, we we can still choose to have that that regulation, I guess, that emotional regulation that comes with that that peace of knowing that all is well.

unknown 58:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:40

I just I just want to point out um before we start every episode, we always start with the prayer we did today. And you prayed that we would feel the spirit here, and I definitely feel the spirit here. And so I thank both of you for your comments and your insights on that. Um, because my heart is lifted, and I genuinely always hope when we have these conversations, I'm always like, oh man, people need to watch not because of anything I say, but because of a conversation that's had, you know. Um, just it's just been a beautiful conversation. And again, I thank you both because I absolutely feel God's love here. Yes, agreed.

SPEAKER_04 59:25

Thank you. I couldn't agree more. Yes, thanks so much. Well, Josh, here is that question that I mentioned in your own words, um, and and based on your perspective and your series of lenses, how do you think that we can all be more unified on our walk through life together?

SPEAKER_03 59:52

To be people who look with clear eyes at each other, who notice the good in people, who um it comes back to curiosity, doesn't it? And there is just this genuine desire to to know people, to love people, um, to hear their stories.

unknown 1:00:13

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:14

And honestly, it's more than just uh a want to do that for us. I think we need, yes. I need to have people in my life that are different than me because then it's a it's a lens that is unique that I wouldn't have had for myself if I didn't know that person. I didn't hear where they're coming from, engage in that perspective, learn from them, and I become someone who's more clear about what's ahead of me, who can see the world more clearly as I embrace other people's perspectives and walk alongside them.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:54

Amen.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:58

Absolutely, amen. Yes, Josh, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Thank you, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:06

And let's not let it be like I don't even know how many years and let's let's do something. Let's go to dinner or have to come to change.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:15

Yes, yes, yeah, and thank you all for joining us once again uh for another episode of I'll walk with you. Until next time, choose to see the good in the world and in others. And just as Josh said, try to have a clear eye and a still heart. We love you. Go and love others. Have a great day.