Ron Hardy

Dr. Ron Hardy has been a good friend of our family for 20 years. He works in women’s
health as an OB/GYN here in Spokane Washington. When I, Rhonda Monson, have
mental health clients who are pregnant and have anxiety or past trauma with birth and
delivery I always refer them to Dr. Hardy as I know they will be in good hands. I have
been thanked many times by these clients. He and his beautiful wife Jennifer are the
proud parents of 6 amazing adult children. He is also currently serving as stake
president for the Spokane Washington North Stake of the Church of Jesus Christ of
Latter-Day Saints. Ron Hardy is one of the kindest men I know, and he is a very busy
man, we were honored to have him take the time to be a guest for our podcast.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:14

Hello and welcome back to I'll walk with you, the podcast where we have conversations all about how we can be more unified on our walkthrough life together. My name is Dakota Moses.

SPEAKER_03 0:23

And I'm Rhonda Monson. Um I am so excited. I really am so excited. I our guest today is one of my favorite people. I don't even know if you know this. I get emotional every episode. Um Ron Hardy, President Hardy, he's um a leader in our in our faith, the Church of Jesus Christ, Latter-day Saints. He's a stake president, so I call him President Hardy. Um, he's also Dr. Hardy and um is a very good friend of mine. We've been friends for a long time. Through a lot of hard. I've cried on his couch in his living room. I've cried in his couch in his office at church, and I've maybe even cried on the table in your office as a doctor. So we've just been friends for a very long time.

SPEAKER_01 1:13

20 plus years.

SPEAKER_03 1:14

Yeah, 20 plus years. I'm so excited and honored to have you here. Um I I told Dakota I was gonna start with a story. I'm gonna start with a story just to introduce you to people who don't know you, and a lot of listeners are from Spokane, they know you, and they're gonna be excited because they love you, because everybody loves you. They should, anyhow.

SPEAKER_01 1:42

You know how I always respond to that? I loved you first.

SPEAKER_03 1:45

Yeah, it's true. It's true. So several years ago, when Dakota and Ty were still dating, um, we were planning. So at least 10 years ago, we were planning a family Christmas get together. And you'll probably remember this. So we were planning a family Christmas get get together. And one of my family members, when they found out that Dakota was gonna come with his boyfriend, said, I'm not gonna go. I won't be a part of that if they're gonna be there. And I was devastated. And I'm like, well, what does that mean for family things then? And and they were like, I don't know, but I'm not gonna come, you know, and I I will say things have definitely changed since then and stuff, but but at that time it was very raw and hurt really, really bad. And I was sitting in your office as a doctor. I was sitting in your office and I was telling you about this, and you just looked at me and you're like, you can plan a Christmas event at my house and invite anybody you want. And Dakota can come and can bring his boyfriend. And I just you were a bishop at that time. And I just remember being so moved and touched by that. And we did, we did a Christmas sing along at your house.

SPEAKER_02 3:02

I remember.

SPEAKER_03 3:03

Yeah, and we had about 50 people come because I sent a text message to people and I'm like, we're gonna do a Christmas sing along at the Hardee's. Know that Dakota and his boyfriend are coming. And if you're not comfortable with that, that's okay. But if you want to just come sing Christmas hymns about Christ and come, we want you to come and we want you to be there. And about 50 people came. And it, I remember we sang like the first like couple notes, and of course, because I get emotional, I was instantly emotional because the spirit was so strong, and there was so much love. And as we drove away, Ty that was his first time to Spokane. Oh, yeah. He got in the car, and he was like, I've never met nicer Mormons, you know, which he'd grow up grown up in Logan, Utah. And so I just thought that was amazing. And so that's my introduction to who you are, is is my friend and uh someone who definitely shines Christ's love and light.

SPEAKER_01 4:17

Thank you. I uh don't know that I'm worthy of all that, but I do love Jesus Christ. And uh He's been a guiding light, so yeah. Try to do what He He wants us to be.

SPEAKER_03 4:30

Right, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 4:31

Or be what He wants us to be.

SPEAKER_03 4:33

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 4:34

And I'm honored to be here. Um I'm honored that you felt comfortable and and inviting me to come and talk about the things that are are really important in life. Uh and uh I mean I'm a I'm a jokester as as that I love that, but to sit down and talk about something serious, I think is wonderful. And uh so I'm glad to be able to do that with you.

SPEAKER_03 4:57

Yeah, yeah. So President Hardy, he catches babies.

SPEAKER_01 5:06

I take care of women.

SPEAKER_03 5:08

Yes, yes, he does. He takes care of women um and does a great work. I've known so many women who you were their doctor through their pregnancy and postpartum and just the things that they say about you and the love that they have for you. I have a niece who had her first baby in a town two hours away and had a really hard experience. And so I I don't know if I told her about you or someone, or maybe my mom did, and she ended up driving here for you to deliver baby number two. And she she was like, it was like having the Cadillac compared to, and I don't remember what the other one was. But she's like, that's who's gonna deliver all my babies, and so that's just nice.

SPEAKER_01 6:03

She must have caught me on a good day or something. A good month.

SPEAKER_03 6:09

No, I don't think so.

SPEAKER_01 6:11

Well, I know I I thoroughly enjoy um working with God's greatest creations, which is his daughters. And uh so it's it's an honor to be able to do it. So I love it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:26

So with the topic of our podcast, I'll walk with you. Yeah, we talk about walking in life with people who have differences. And because of your career, and even as your leadership in church, you get to sit and be and serve and work with people all walks of life.

SPEAKER_01 6:50

Yes, that's true. My mind floods with all sorts of examples of that.

SPEAKER_03 6:56

We would love to hear some of those examples of that. And just maybe where someone came into your office where maybe you had that experience of how am I gonna wrap my brain around this scenario or something, and then where love steps in.

SPEAKER_01 7:18

Um, you know, it's uh there's such a spectrum that we could dwell on from uh you like the different football team than me. So I don't know, you know, uh all the way to um, you know, you want an abortion, and I don't, you know, I don't do abortions and actually would probably encourage you not to do an abortion because of how I feel about what that is. So you can see that there's a wide range of where we have differences with people. And uh it we get so scared of differences that some of them we can joke around with, but others we just don't want to even touch. And so if you don't mind, I'll go to that one. And then there's many others you could ask me any questions about, but like the the topic of abortion, hugely political, yet extremely personal. Yes, and uh and then when you add in religion and different approaches to that, there's just a lot of different emotions and feelings. And so as I think about my career, as I began down a pathway that would bring me in close proximity to this topic of um of managing a pregnancy and and the the varying different approaches that might be out there. I thought a lot about it. Where do I stand on this? Yeah and and what are my feelings about it? And you know, my faith and my study of God and Jesus Christ, I definitely felt like I lean I align with them, or I try to to the best of my ability. But then I realized that I really care about this woman who has now faced something so difficult. And uh so you try to figure that out, and where where do you come in and talk to them about that? And I can remember one in particular who the pregnancy um was not planned. Um it wasn't forced, it wasn't rape or incest or anything like that. So she was aware of what was happening, but definitely not planned, not a good time of her life. And I the the nuances of that are so interesting because you and I might picture somebody that goes to work, has a job, and and things like that, and then they do something and then they get pregnant. But there's a lot of different situations where living in poverty, dependent upon people, abuse through their life, and leaves them in situations that it's very hard to judge that moment of when the pregnancy occurred. Absolutely. Now, that I don't believe that I believe we're all stewards of our own agency and decisions. Okay, so I'm not making an excuse, but just acknowledging that there's different paths, and then some of them are really hard. And so my point of that is that you can't be too judgy. You can't just judge that to say, well, you just chose to do something terrible, and thus now you have the consequences you're gonna live with. And um, and so when you look at this woman that I had in front of me who said, I can't, I can't carry the pregnancy, I can't do this, I can't, I can't, I can't, um, you know, what should I do? I was filled with deep compassion, or just a feeling like, oh my goodness, what a difficult thing. And and her specific question was, is uh should I get an abortion? Yeah. Can I get an abortion? And um with all the love that I could muster, I said, well, you know, my beliefs would tell you, let's try, oh, sorry, I picked them up. Would be that let's try to see if there's another way because of how I feel, not judgment about the decision, but just that could there be another way? Because I believe that choice of abortion has its own set of consequences and things that are that go along with it. Not necessarily related to what society thinks, but just the realities of those that I've seen that have gone down that path. And um I could easily be judged as, well, why you know, she wants an abortion, she should be just kicked out of your office. Well, no, she's trying to figure out how to manage life. And so I tried to direct her to things that I felt would be very, very hard that are options. And and I I didn't encourage her down a path of abortion. Now, some would say, Why didn't you put that as one of her options? She knew that was one of her options. Right. I didn't need to promote that. Of course. Uh we acknowledged it, and then I said, Well, I would I would recommend a different pathway. But if you choose that, I still love you, and you can still come back here. I I just don't I don't perform those. I and I I know there's resources that you can go see, so I'm not denying you resource access, but I I don't I don't promote those access points, and so that's up to you. And you know what? She came back to me. I've taken care of her. She went on and had three or four more kids, and um because she did go choose to do an abortion. And and I, you know, obviously I felt bad, but ultimately she just needed somebody that cared. And that's that's kind of that story of of how that approach. And so I think when we see that difference, particularly when it's you know a deep moral issue or political or you know, things like that, it's it's easy to put a judgment and say, well, they're wrong and thus they're bad. They're bad.

SPEAKER_03 13:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:16

And I just I don't want to do that. And uh that doesn't mean that I'm popular. Because some will say, well, you should, you know, you you should have done it this way or you shouldn't have done it that way.

SPEAKER_03 13:31

Uh probably on both sides.

SPEAKER_01 13:33

On both sides. No, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 13:34

Because that was soft. Some people would think that was really soft.

SPEAKER_01 13:38

Right.

SPEAKER_03 13:39

And you should have said, absolutely, that's not an that shouldn't be an option.

SPEAKER_02 13:43

Right.

SPEAKER_03 13:44

And then others would definitely think you were too conservative in that.

SPEAKER_01 13:49

Yeah. Should have, you know, taken care of her. And and so, but that's a judgment that me and God have to make. Um, because I didn't encourage her to get an abortion. I didn't say, hey, you can, yeah, go ahead and get one. I told her, No, I don't think that's a good choice. Yeah. But I did it in a way that said, I I love you and respect you, it's it's got to be your choice. And and I think God loves her. I know he does. Yes. And uh he has that full insight into everything that's happening in her life. And uh so I think a part of that walking with others, with Christ, and that's so important, because we can walk together with the political uh or philosophies. Yeah, that's what we're walking through life with together. Or we can walk through with no values and just say we're just side by side. And no judgment on that. But when you walk beside somebody with Jesus Christ, that puts a framework about your relationship that can have much deeper meaning and uh guidance, you know, because maybe as you walk with there, you have different opinions about certain things, but if you're both centering around Jesus Christ, then we can we can live together and work beside each other and uh respect and and love, um just like the Savior did. And everyone knows the story, it's one of my all-time favorites. The woman caught in adultery. And the way the the Israelite people were taught about adultery, it was death. Yeah. And why a violent death. Yeah, and why was that? It's because God had said that is one of the most amoral sins that that are out there, and so that's how the Israelites took that. But Christ came in and he said, Well, he didn't deny that adultery was a terrible sin. It definitely was it was still a sin. But he put his arm around here and said, I don't condemn you. Go, sin no more, come think of me and my pathway, and and and do that. And I'd I just love that example.

SPEAKER_03 16:10

I love the examples in the scriptures of Christ with women, like whether it be the woman with the issue of the blood, whether it be the woman at the well, whether it be the woman caught in adultery, because especially the woman caught in adultery and the woman at the well, both were not living what we would call a moral life, right? And yet both, neither do I condemn thee, and the woman at the well, he told her who he was. The first one he told who he was outside of his intimate circle. Yeah, the very first one, the woman who's living with a man that she's not married to because she's already been married five times. The first one he tells this woman who he is. And I think about this woman who comes in the heat of the day because she's most likely shunned by the other women because of her life, choices or whatever circumstances. And so here she is, shunned, comes, meets this man who tells her who he is. And she was already taught about Jesus. She was waiting for the savior to come. So she knew she recognized as he was talking because she said, Is this not the Christ? You know, yeah, and so she ran, left her pot and ran back to tell the people who she was. He chose her. So I love the examples of Christ with the women, especially when we think about those days when women were absolutely seen as so much less than her. And I think about our society and our culture, and and we less than people a lot, whether they're different political beliefs or different lifestyle choices or or whatever, we less than people a lot. We make them less than. And Christ didn't make people less than ever.

SPEAKER_01 18:09

I can't think of an example that I know about.

SPEAKER_02 18:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:15

Yeah, he he always lifted up. He always um I think just reminded us of our true inherent value and um what was always there, what's always unchangeable. Um offered an invitation of hope, an invitation to rise to the occasion, you know, that we we are capable, we are um we are worthy of love, regardless of whatever it is that we've done. Um that nothing that we have done or could ever do could ever separate us from God's love. Um and invited us to treat others the same. Invited us to love everyone, to pray for our enemy, to um love our neighbor as ourselves, to have compassion and show mercy. And um, you know, that's really all he asks of us, above everything.

SPEAKER_01 19:42

And and he asked that of everyone. Now, we sometimes talk about unity and inclusiveness as that, you know, well, everybody, you know, can live together. Well, Savior's invitation for being patient with someone else, loving someone else, he said that to everybody. Um, and uh if we're ever on that side where we feel like, well, everybody needs to accept me. Well, I need to accept everybody else. You know, so in other words, we work together, like so. You have two people have differing life experiences or opinions or values. Um, they're both asked by Christ to love and accept the other person.

SPEAKER_03 20:29

Right.

SPEAKER_01 20:30

And so when that that creates that overall you that we can be different, but we got this one savior guy, this this man Jesus, as you say, that we we walk with him. So we can always come to a common point and have that. And so that's why I love bringing up his teachings. They change the world, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:51

And it when we apply them and take them into our lives, they change us, they change us, and that changes who we are with others, big time, you know. I think about what you do for a career, what I do for a career, and I've had the opportunity to work with so many different people on so many different life choices. And I pray for my clients, and I'm always asking Heavenly Father before, you know, the beginning of the day, like help me, guide me, you know, how can I best serve my clients when they come in? And I don't know, it maybe the words aren't given to me or the great greatest tools in the moment, but what is given to me every time is compassion and love for my clients. And they may have a completely different lifestyle than I would ever choose for any human. And yet, all I feel for them is love and compassion, and all I want for them is good, yeah, you know, and and I think that's a true gift from God, because otherwise I would. Just see them as the other, you know. I would other them and probably wouldn't have any kind of relationship with them. But because of the work that I do, I get to have a relationship with them. I get to share space with them. I get to hear their stories, which to me is so sacred, you know, and I get to know who they are, why they are, you know, and when you know why, it's it's really hard to be in a judgment seat.

SPEAKER_02 22:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:28

When you know their story behind the life that they've lived, it's really hard to be in a judgment seat.

SPEAKER_01 22:36

Yeah. And that's that curiosity and that what the savior taught is well, get to know someone, walk with them, and so that you can you can find that place. But I love that you brought up that example. Uh, you know, as a caregiver and as a care provider, uh, it's interesting because they come, you love and respect their journey, things like that. But you're also in a position where you want to help them guide to help be healthier or in an even a better place. That's usually why they're coming. Yes. Ask those questions. And uh so that that idea that, well, I might have to point out that some of their behaviors are not as healthy or not progressing them towards that. And in that setting, you can be, well, you need to accept this is this is this is my life and my style. And but I am the way I am. I am the way I am, right? But yet have the courage to say, okay, I totally accept the way you are, but some of that might not be helping you and you deal with this or that problem. And so that that's an interesting place, but it it's a it's a unique and a personal and things like that. It's when you go out into broad society where I am not your caregiver. I'm not, you didn't come to me for advice, and then I tell you what you need to do to be happier or better. There, I mean, you have to have a careful balance in love with that. You could do that with love if you have a friendship and you say, hey, you know, you might think about this as, you know, but I think sometimes, particularly like, you know, church members, like we know the gospel helps us so many ways to be happy. And sometimes we want to so quickly point out that if you'll change your behavior, you know, then you'll be happy too. And there's not that might be 100% true. If I tell somebody to stop smoking, you should stop smoking, you'll be happier. That's true. It's not true, but it doesn't mean I don't love them if they continue to smoke. I just but I just hope I don't offend them. So that's that's where you you learn. Oh, this is actually a really good thought. To love is one thing, to communicate love is totally another thing.

SPEAKER_03 25:00

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 25:02

And I think that's one of the great things your podcast is doing here is we're not just talking about this concept, we should love everybody, but let's figure out how to do it.

SPEAKER_02 25:12

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 25:13

And uh, you know, President uh Oakes has been very articulate, which I can't quote him, about how you deal with people that have differences. And it goes back to all those things you said, Dakota. Mutual respect. Yes. This is a son or daughter of God. That is an established fact, no matter what life or beliefs, they are that. And so you start places like that. And I may really think they're hurting other people and they're bad or they're wrong, but I can't judge that because I have to um let's see, I'm not not judge it, but I don't dwell there to correct that. I want to have a mutual respect, and so I listen and value and acknowledge and then say, well, that's different than how I appuche it, but uh but I respect that you have that um those thoughts and those feelings. And he teaches it so much better about how we deal with not not just that, but how to love those that we have differences with. And not just feel it, but actually then go and engage. Because one of the things that I I think is what uh some of our other struggles is that, well, they're so different. I'm just gonna avoid and going around this way. Yes. And maybe that's what a person's journey is at that point because they're just not sure how to love someone that's gay and is in a same-sex marriage. They just don't, they don't know how to they might really care about you and think, but just don't know how to communicate that. And so having a discussion like this where you can talk about um becoming secure in who you are allows you to hopefully then also be able to come out or secure in Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_02 27:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:01

That then you can come to others and and I'm not gonna avoid you. I want to know your story because that's what the Savior wants to know. Um and you know, you guys have many friends and examples, and I have some as well, where that just makes all the difference in the world. To really understand the the path that someone's walked and and then walk that with them with Jesus, you just have a lot more understanding and compassion.

SPEAKER_03 27:33

Right.

SPEAKER_01 27:34

My love.

SPEAKER_03 27:35

When when you see this the struggle that people go through, speaking of the whole LGBTQ plus thing, you know, like being present when someone wants so much to be true, be true to who they are, and wants so much to you know be an active member of the Church of Jesus Christ, Latter-day Saints. And you see the the absolute torness that they go through. Um all it does is make your heart like tender, like you just go, I love you, and I'm gonna walk with you whatever whatever route you walk, because you're seeking and you're good and you're doing what you you feel is best for you. I I mean, I've been there for you in in some of the hardest times that he's experienced, some of the lowest lows. You know, I've I've witnessed that just that torness. You've you've he's oh no, I've walked I've walked with Dakota as well. And you can't help but just have compassion. And I I feel like that all the time when when people get really critical of anyone, but of course my heart is very with the LGBTQ plus community because of my family, not just Dakota. You we we have a big rainbow family. Um when you've seen the them curled up and sobbing. All you feel is love and compassion, and and you just you you get to remember God loves them more. And God has has them. It's not my my choice is to follow God in the way that I feel God calling me. But that's everyone's choice is to follow God in the way that they feel God is calling them. That's it's not my job to say you're doing it wrong. You know, it's it's not. I used to think that. I used to think when we read the scriptures and the scriptures tell us to go and call repentance. I thought that meant we were supposed to tell everybody they were wrong. I really, I really did. Younger Rhonda really thought that that meant we were supposed to point out people's sins and call them to repentance. I I in no way believe that now. I believe when we call people to repentance, we're calling them to look to Christ. We're inviting them to look to Christ, who taught love, who taught the commandments, a higher level of commandments, you know, like let's not commit adultery, but let's not even look at a woman with lusting, like higher commandments, like bigger and harder ones, but taught love and everything through love. My job to call someone to repentance, especially when I was a missionary in Kenya, is to bring people to Christ, point them towards him, and and then get out of the way.

SPEAKER_01 31:06

That is, and that's the the title of this podcast. Our invitation is hey, I'll I'll walk with Christ with you, and let's walk with Christ. That's the invitation is to walk with him, yeah, and allow him to let his love have its impact. I wanted to, you you mentioned about um, I can't remember exactly how you said it, but um it goes, Dakota, despite all that you have had to experience and and and what your life has has the journey down, through that all, I have always felt that Dakota loved me. And he would ask me, How are you doing? And he would care about me. And and I think that's as someone that's in the LGBT community, which you know, I know at times feels like they're the minority, the the you know, kind of pushed off to the side. But as Dakota accepted, hey, I'm doing the best I can as I am, as I as I'm experiencing this life, he was able to then to somebody like a bishop or a state president who might feel like a judge of that, of where you are, you cared about me and came and asked, how's your family? What's going on with Tanner? And you know, and and and and so I think that's a beautiful message for for everyone is that if you're in the LGBT community, if you're in some different where maybe the majority of your neighbors are one way and you might be another way, that the the love goes both ways. And yes, so uh and our society sometimes is really focused on the victims, and and and there are victims, so don't don't get me wrong. We need to be carefully monitoring true victims and do our best to super that. But at the same time, sometimes we overdo that victim, and and so then we're not doing our loving of others that even though they were in the minority of our thinking, and uh so many different examples, not just LGBTQ. There's tons of examples of that, and and that's I think a difficult place is sometimes to get to if you are the minority. Um, but that's the walk with Christ, is that I'm walking with Christ and I'm doing the best I can. So when I come to church, I know that I'm not like everybody else there, but I'm here to walk with Christ and having that faith to know that with him this will all get sorted. It will, it will work. I'm gonna keep striving and trying and trying to walk in his footsteps the best I can. And some people might not appreciate that. That's but you know you are, and you know you're trying, and so you you hopefully have that enough love and support, but also that enough personal relationship with Jesus Christ that you keep pressing on. And um so that love and how to express that love, how to show and demonstrate that love, um, God will guide that and help that and support that. Can I give a personal example? I hope I don't get in trouble for using this, but it is one that has touched our family very deeply. My mother is 88 years old. She has a 90-year-old sister. That sister knew she was gay in high school. That was in the 40s and 50s. She was raised by my mother's parents who were converts to the church but dedicated and devoted. Um she went to BYU and recognized that she was different, but she found a community, and she was never angry at the differences and and how stark you didn't talk about them, things like that. But I love watching how my mother's relationship with her older sister has been throughout these 90 years. She loved her sister so much. Now, her sister, and it gets really interesting because her sister out of BYU met a group, crowd, went to California where it was felt to be you could, you know, maybe express or live your lifestyle a little bit different. And and so uh my mom, right there in Boise, married, had eight kids, you know, and her sister had met a woman and they loved each other and lived together and and worked together. We went down and saw them, stayed at their house, they came to see us. I mean, Aunt Gloria was Aunt Gloria. We just loved Aunt Gloria, Aunt Gloria and Auntie Wan. And as a youngster, I had no idea. I didn't, that wasn't even in the registry. It was just Aunt Gloria and Aunt Auntie Wan. Well, as society changed over time, um in California, you remember there was a push for gay marriage to be um, and I don't know all the political terms, but uh legalized, or that'd be okay. And my mother felt like, well, no, I want to have marriage be, you know, still defined as between a man and a woman. And so she had the little sign she put out in her at her front lawn. And she called up her sister and says, How are you and Gloria doing? Are you doing okay? Because she knew that Auntie Vaughn, her sister and Gloria, they were excited to get married.

SPEAKER_03 37:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:01

And you know what? She flew down to their marriage.

SPEAKER_03 37:03

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 37:04

And I mean, it was that was just a part of it. Now they didn't want to make a big deal, so they didn't, you know, they just did this quietly and they came from the generations where you know you just didn't talk about it. You just did your best to live it. And but I just love, and they are the best. My mom and her sister are best friends, they talk every day, and it's it's just a beautiful thing. And I I just look at that, especially that time when it was a real political thing. And my mom wasn't afraid to tell and Ivonne, well, no, I I believe marriage, as defined as marriage, should be between a man and a woman. But if you if it if it changes and you guys can get married, I'm coming, you know, because we love you and support you. And I don't maybe that doesn't illustrate it well, but I just love that example that um her sister had different opinions about marriage, but that didn't mean they didn't love each other and care for each other and support each other.

SPEAKER_03 38:04

Right. Um I think it explains everything about who you are, though, as far as with our family, because when I told you about the family member who didn't want to do the Christmas thing, you told me about your aunt then.

SPEAKER_02 38:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 38:20

And you were like, she was just part of our family. We just love her. Like, of course, Dakota and his boyfriend can come. And and so because you had that experience, because your mom raised you that way to love, to include, you go to their home, you visit, you go stay with them. That she comes to your home, you have the two aunts because you grew up with that. It's like, of course, they're family. Yeah, it's it's it why wouldn't they be family? I I can't imagine not having Dakota in my life. I can't imagine pushing him away. Like, I can't imagine. And I know I've shared this story on the podcast and everything that way, but when him and Ty first like got to get like they were gonna get married, get together, like they had decided that. I fell apart. I fell apart, eyeballed, I was just like devastated, you know. And now I look back at that and I I see it differently. One, because I love Tyree so much, also because I see how good Ty is for Dakota. See, I've I've always had Dakota on this pedestal, and he's still there, but Ty's now right there with him, and they they lift each other up, they build each other up, they're they're good for each other, and so it's just this different space that I am, you know. I I don't have answers for a lot of things, yeah, but I know for myself that God calls me to keep the covenants, you know. We make covenants in our temples for our non-member listeners, you know. He calls me to keep my covenants. And outside of that, my job, period, is to do my best to love others. And I don't, I'm not always great at that. I'm great with like we have our LGBTQ gatherings once in a month. I'm great with that because I'm comfortable. Those are my people, you know. I'm not great with that with people who have very strong political views that are different than mine that I feel might hurt them. You know, I'm not great with that. And then I have to be like, oh, you want me to love everyone? Dang it. Like I'm great with my LGBTQ brothers and sisters because I have so many in my family that I love and adore, but you want me to love the ones that I'm uncomfortable with? Oh, okay. Yeah, and he does, and and I'm so thankful. I I remember one particular Sunday, and it was after some really traumatic things happened in the US, and I'd been watching the news way too much, way too much. And I just remember not wanting to go to church that morning because too many people had very different views than I did. And I'm just like, I don't want to go. I don't want to be with them. And that's so terrible. That's terrible. And I'm so glad I'm very committed to going to church every Sunday. I'm very, very thankful. I am that's just a commitment I have. I go. If I'm sick, I'm usually still there. I just go. It's my commitment. So I go because that's what I do. And I'm sitting there, and one of my friends comes and sits by me. And we have very different political views, but she sits by me and I love her. I love her so much. And I swear Heavenly Father must have had her sit by me that Sunday in Release Society, our women's meeting, because all I felt was just so much love and so much gratitude that I had gone to church that day with all those people who believe differently than I do politically, right? And all I felt in the whole room was just so much love for all the people that I love so much. And that I love all most of the time, you know, but because I'd watched the news and I got myself all like riled up and so frustrated and so angry. It's just like, I'm so glad Heavenly Father like puts us in situations and says, get go, be with the people. Because when you're with the people, you love the people.

SPEAKER_01 42:39

And Rhonda, you have a gift of love. Don't you agree, Dakota? Yes, she just loves. I mean, if you had to think of her superpower, it's definitely love, and it comes deep from within her. But your example of that political things, I I, you know, I'll use COVID as an example. Oh, yeah. There was a lot of opinions about how we should manage this COVID and consequently, even in neighborhoods or close families, they had different opinions about how we should approach COVID. Right. And sometimes that just drove them apart. I can't even talk to you because you think COVID should be handled this way.

SPEAKER_02 43:21

Right.

SPEAKER_01 43:21

And I think COVID should be handled this way. But you know what is interesting when you stop and really look at that? They were both trying to help us get through COVID in a good, healthy, you know, have a good outcome from COVID. They might have had different tolerance levels for different outcomes and things like that, but they were both trying to achieve a good outcome. And so if you focus totally on the your way is not the right way, and instead say, well, your way's different. I can value you because you're trying to use your way to get to a good outcome. Yes, I think this is a better way to get to that outcome, but we're both going for the same outcome. Right. And so we could be able to sit and talk with each other and you know and things like that. And yeah, ultimately decisions had to be made in society. And you may not agree with what turned out to be, but you speak your mind on those issues, but not in a I condemn you for your idea. This is just how I thought we might get through that. And uh, and so I that's a good example of using that political arena to weigh, we could be unified. We could come say, hey, well, we both want to get through COVID in the healthiest possible way. You have that way, I have this way. Okay, how do we mix that? You know, how do we do that?

SPEAKER_03 44:41

How amazing that would have been. Oh, yeah. Because there are still families divided because of that, that don't have any relationship with each other at all anymore. Yeah, because of that. And it's just, you know, we our divide is even bigger now, and it's tragic. It's so sad.

SPEAKER_01 45:01

It is so sad. And I a church example that just comes to mind is, you know, as the church was promoting marriage in the way that God has defined it for the church, um, they they you know taught that principles. And what what happened is that some families then took it and said, Well, I can't love you anymore because you're going down a different way than what I was taught. And that was not the intended purpose of that teachings. Um, and so it's very interesting because I've gone to meetings and say, if you have somebody that you know has ostracized their children because they have this altered life, you need to repair that relationship right now because that's not appropriate. We should be fostering that love and unity and working together as as they work through their challenges and they're supporting you as you work through your challenges. And but we do that because we love each other and we care and we trust God can sort all this out. And if we follow Jesus Christ to the best of our ability.

SPEAKER_03 46:09

I had a really good friend. Um, she was on our podcast, Becky McIntosh. I do my little chair for her, but she did this post once, and she was in Release Society, and they were talking about LGBTQ destroying the family. And she wrote a book um about loving our LGBTQ family members that was published by Desireet Book, and you know, and they're on the church website and stuff like that. So she just raised her hand and she's like, what if what's destroying the family is when we ostracize and we push away our family members that maybe don't live the way we thought they should or think they should or whatever. Maybe what if that's what's destroying the family? Is that we're pushing away and we're separating ourselves from rather than continually building our family unit. And I loved that so much. Like she posted that years ago. She may not even remember that she posted that, but for me, it was just so big, you know. It was so like, and it reminded me how I want to be that I don't care someone, even if you know, anything. Like if someone has an abortion, I want to love them. I want to love them. I don't want to push them away. I don't want to not be their friend. I have friends who've had abortions. I love them. I know their goodness. I think I'm pretty confident they know where I stand on it, but that's not gonna keep me from having a relationship with them. That's not gonna keep me from being their friend because I love them. And so I don't think we should use these differences to push people away. I think that's what's destroying families. I think that's what's destroying our society is this push away. I'm right, you're wrong, or I'm righteous, you're wicked, or or whatever. It's like we need to come together. And it's okay that we're different because we are.

SPEAKER_01 48:09

Yeah, and that push away can come from both sides. So it's you know absolutely we have to come together. You know, and just to, you know, to to be uh true to the realities sometimes that happen. Um, I think of examples where uh you know you want to love your children no matter what their journey is. But sometimes you still have to put boundaries because some of their their behaviors could be you know disruptive or destructive or things like that. And uh so but that's a hard thing too. But again, it goes back to how can I communicate love? The boundary is needed, but I love you no matter what. And and so that's a that's a just acknowledging that there's a lot of different situations where sometimes hard decisions might have to be made. And um we gotta not judge that family for how they're handling their difficult problem, but um yeah, just being sensitive to all those uh varying situations. And again, that's what I love about this podcast is that when we talk to each other, beginning with walking with Christ, okay, we have a common place, we love Jesus Christ, we we love goodness and and that feeling of goodness, so we can always start there, and that's just that's what can unify like uh the two political ideas about COVID. Well, we want things to turn out good. Okay, so we all both want that. Okay, how do we negotiate? You know, but that that common goal is what can overcome so much of the differences. We all want to return to live with Heavenly Father and have his companionship. Now, there's a lot of different ways that that might be designed and felt strongly about what that looks like. Okay, well, we can respect those and and then work together because we got a common goal here and allow our influences on each other, um keeping our eye focused on what we want to accomplish in the end.

SPEAKER_00 50:10

I think it's also important to remember the invitation of um of a changed heart and changed mind, um embodying the messages of Christ, not just um not just aiming to follow, but aiming to embody, aiming to um you're okay. Uh aiming to embody um his message, his his way. Um when he says, I am the way, the truth, the truth, and the life, um he's not in my belief, not just saying like, oh, you have to come through me, but it's an invitation to be like me. Be like me, love like I love, treat others, how I treat others. And so when we I think sometimes within the greater Christian church or faith, um, not just within the LDS community, but within the greater Christian, um, Christian way, is we so desperately want to point people to Jesus, you know, because that's who we follow as an example. But so many people, the second they hear Jesus, it's true.

SPEAKER_02 51:51

That's true.

SPEAKER_00 51:51

The the wall goes up, and there's no way that goes that you're gonna get through that. Right. Um, so I think it's important for us to um to use use Jesus the man as our exemplar of how we need to show up as ourselves, as um as children of God. He gave a perfect example for us of how to treat others, how to show up for others, how to share space at a dinner table with people that we disagree with. Um and and I would doubt that all of the conversations were all about, oh, well, we're gonna have a spiritual conversation today about how we can all return to live with God, you know. Um, I I just have a hard time believing that that's um all that he focused on. Um instead, I think by showing up with love and mercy and compassion in situations where it was not expected, in fact, was um was shocking that that's how he responded. Then the invitation comes, why? Why do you act that way? Why? Why are you this way? And then the invitation is open and that wall is softened. Then you can say, well, it's because you know, I follow Jesus, or because I am trying to become like Jesus, or because of who I believe my savior is, instead of leading with, oh, you know, you need to be you need to be more like Jesus. Okay, well, have a nice day. Bye. I'm I'm you stay over there, I'll stay over here. I don't I don't need you Jesus crazy freaks to remember because really I I mean so much of my community, um, being in the LGBT community, being um in the industries that I work in, um there there has been so much hurt uh imparted by people who profess belief and faith in Jesus Christ. Yeah. Um because they're not acting the way that Jesus acted.

unknown 54:13

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 54:14

So it's there's this divide that happens between professing that we believe one thing and then acting in a different way, or acting cruelly because we believe that's what we should do. And when instead all we were asked to do was show mercy, have love, have compassion, um, leave the 99 to seek the one, invite to come in, show up, knock on, knock on their door, and you know, invite them over for dinner. And um it doesn't have to be this this conversation of um you know salvation and sin and righteousness. It's the embodiment of of love, of Christ-like love. Not um not always you know who Jesus is, but who we can be with that Christ-centered love.

SPEAKER_01 55:23

Yeah. And that changes everything.

SPEAKER_02 55:25

Yeah, it does.

SPEAKER_01 55:26

Your your description of that made me think of um Christ taught to turn the other cheek. Right? So if somebody smacks you once, you turn, say, okay, I can be smacked again. So let's say you meet somebody and they get smacked and they never turn the other cheek. And you come to them and say, hey, you're not following Jesus, you don't turn that other cheek. Well, that what does that accomplish? It doesn't accomplish anything. Um, but if you come to them and love them and encourage them, and then they see you take it from both cheeks and not get angry and upset, then maybe you are promoting Jesus Christ. Because he did tell us to preach his name.

SPEAKER_02 56:12

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 56:12

To preach him. Yes. But sometimes that's it's not to the condemnation of others, it is to the encouragement that we can all follow Christ and learn how to do it better and better so that we become like him. And yes, there's things that he has set up to help us along that pathway. I think of the command to be baptized. Well, that was that's that's just so that we can help us become more like him. And and that's a part of that journey back to him that he gave us to do. And but the love and the example he set, that's that's that's where it all boils down to, like you said, go is to follow him the best we can. Yeah.

unknown 56:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:59

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 57:01

Feel that love.

SPEAKER_03 57:02

I think what you said is so true. I think there's just been so much hurt in the name of Christianity. And so I I definitely notice that in my career and in things and in retreats that I put on, and people who come in and they're like, Oh, I didn't know that we bless food here because we always just bless the food. And that's about sometimes that's all that will come forth. That yeah, I'm a Christian is because we'll bless the food, but there's hurt, and so when we love, and the sad thing is hurt doesn't usually come from the space of love. I feel like sometimes people take that I'm a Christian, so therefore I'm better than, and therefore I can condemn you. And that to me seems so unchrist-like when Christ himself said, Neither do I condemn thee, go your way and sin no more. So I just ah, there's been so much hurt that I feel like us as followers of Christ, who people who want to become him like him, you know, then we we just get to hold up so much more grace and mercy and yes, justice and yes, healthy boundaries for sure at times, but we get to hold up more light.

SPEAKER_01 58:23

I agree. And I and I love I love that that topic. Well, uh the topic of the hurt. Um, I've I've tried to think a lot about that and how can I maybe try to rectify some of that hurt or or help that hurt. I think by walking with Christ, walking with each other, and accepting adversity, hopefully that my efforts to do that help relieve some of that hurt. But then I also know some of those that have been hurt, they're hurt by Christianity and and and maybe not even a Christian, but just the ideas that Christianity might seem opposed to to a certain you know way of living. But the efforts then that those that have been hurt to how you know try to help them overcome that hurt, and everyone who goes through hurt and has to resolve that hurt and and figure out that hurt uh in some way. But again, that's where if we all walk with Christ, Christ will give the strength saying, okay, I I can forgive those that were so harsh to me, didn't understand me. I mean, Christ was raised on the cross. He said, forgive them. They know not right that they're hurting me. They just don't know. And so that from any different side, if if we understand that point that, okay, I I've been hurt, that's a legitimate thing, ostracized, treated wrong, you know, shunned, looked down on, judged, those hurt. But I can't live there. I gotta say, okay, you know, I'm gonna try to walk with Christ and and uh not ascribe my hurt to everyone. You know, that happens a lot in different scenarios, but but working through that. And it's beautiful when you see that that, yeah, there's hurtful things. They continue to happen, they have happened, they probably will be happening. But I'm not gonna focus on the hurt, I'm gonna give them the benefit of the doubt. Yeah, and we all do that for whenever we're hurt, no matter what our situations are. Um I I remember getting accused at work. A terrible thing. And it was not true. And it took me a while to get over that hurt. So we all have to do it.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:05

But then in these times when we have such differences, yeah, there's been hurtful things. But hopefully, as a people, we're we're growing, and so we can heal the hurt through love and walking with Jesus. Yeah, that's the best way.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:20

It is, it is, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:22

But this hurt does make you sad.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:24

It does.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:25

And and feel compassion and empathy.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:29

And it's so important to give people space to listen to it.

unknown 1:01:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:34

That's that's what one thing I've discovered. Even if it's anger at something I love, when I allow them to express it and don't judge them for it, like beautiful things come out of that.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:52

You know, and so I used to feel like I had to correct again, you know, because I had to tell everybody how to live their lives, I guess. But I don't anymore. I let people feel what they're feeling. I ask them more about it. I validate because when you do hear the story, the whole story, usually there's a lot of truth in there, why they're mad or why they're hurt. But man, when you can just validate it and let them feel it, and you don't judge it, you just give them that space. Beautiful things come out of that. Beautiful, beautiful things come out of that.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:28

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:29

I think we've just been afraid of emotion. We've been afraid of so many, just things in general. We're we're afraid, and that fear keeps us stuck, and we shouldn't be fearful. We should just want to get to know people.

unknown 1:02:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:42

Want to get to know them.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:44

Yeah, I want to get to know you. I see that you're super angry, but tell me your story. Why? Why are you angry? And then when they tell you your story, you're like, oh, ow. Usually, like, ow, there's usually pain under that anger. And then when you can actually really truly empathize with that pain and validate that pain, their healing begins. And sometimes you don't even have to do anything more than just listen and validate. It's kind of cool.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:13

It's really cool. And then I love it. God can, in the scriptures, it says God can do his work, which means he can heal, comfort, restore, uh, and help his children return to live with him. He can do that work. And so when we overtake our, you know, and we he's asked us to help with that. But that's just loving everybody and setting a good example. Sometimes you need to say some words and teach some things or encourage a certain way, uh, but never at the condemnation or hurt of someone else. And just like you said, if we lead each other to Jesus and then let Jesus do what Jesus can do in time and in eternity, a true heart seeking Jesus, he'll find a way to save them and and and heal them and heal me and help me.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:14

Absolutely, absolutely. Thank you for being here. I you're one of my favorite people. I'll tell another little story. You're one of my favorite people after I went through, well, I was going through the divorce process of I think I've told our listeners, most people know I've been married twice before my husband now. But when I was going through my second divorce, um, my youngest daughter and I, Whitney and I, we were going for a walk. She just got out of a really toxic relationship herself and we were going for a walk. And she's like, You need to set the bar high next time, mom. And I'm like, it's gonna be high. If they're not as good as President Hardy, I'm not interested. You were my bar. And so I buried above. Very, very, I know he's always like, You wow, thank you. And I'm like, You're every bit, probably even better because he gets my personality and my humor and my snarkiness well. So, but truly you were my bar.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:16

Well, listen, that Jennifer and I were talking about you this morning, and overwhelmed with love and joy and gratitude to God for allowing Doug Monson to come into your life and to give you that uh to give you what he can give you and to see that happiness and joy feed for you. And that make us all happy.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:48

He is my miracle. I tell him every day that he's he's the coolest. You're cool. He he's the coolest.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:58

Well, thank you so so. Much for joining us today. Thank you. In conclusion, and in your words, how do you believe that we can all be more unified on our walk through life together?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:12

Well, I know the easy answer, maybe the obvious answer, is um emulating Christ's love. Um but if I give it a real practical, okay, what can I practically do? I think it came out in this conversation is I need to actively seek to understand someone else's story and where they come from. And if I can do that with confidence, that I'm okay and I'm genuine in it, I think that helps us come together more than anything. Um we pre-judge or pre-and we can do this in a lot of scenarios. Um, we're blocking unity and and cohesiveness and strength together. Um, so it's just that genuine curiosity which comes out of love and then centered on the teachings of Jesus Christ. We can we can have a relationship with almost anyone, especially if they're willing to join with it. But I even I think it can happen those that aren't interested. I still care about them and still be there and want to want to be a part of that to the best I can.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:27

I know, like how you pointed out the desire for goodness. You know, I have a friend who's Muslim, and the desire for goodness in her is beautiful and great. Yeah. And so it's just that commonality. We want good things for ourselves, for our families, for our neighbors, for people, for the world. You know, it's that finding that commonality. I know I answered your question. That's okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:58

Dakota, what would you say? What do you think?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:04

That's the first time anybody has asked me. Um I would say seeking to know somebody as perfectly as you can, um, and doing so um from a space of as pure of love as we can comprehend or understand, um higher love than maybe we think that we are even capable of. Um and extend the same amount of grace and mercy and compassion as we would hope for ourselves. Um also um love ourselves just just the same as as um as maybe we would hope to love others. Um it goes both ways. I think that if we hold ourselves to a high standard, um and strive for um just to to be peacemakers, true, true peacemakers, um and strive to have a calm a calm mind, uh clear mind. Uh I think Josh Taylor in his episode said a uh I believe it was um a clear mind and a still heart to have that um and then extend that that hope for and invitation to others, um seeking again as much understanding as we can um to know ourselves and to know others, and to be able to say it all is well, it is well, um, and provide space for for one another's experience and uh again the the element of curiosity as well, which I think that's that's a good start.

unknown 1:10:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:36

Beautiful, beautiful, yeah. Thanks, Dakota. Of course. Well, thank you once again for joining us, and thank you to our listeners for joining us for another episode of I'll walk with you. Until next time, we love you so so much. Go and be the light and be the change that you wish to see, and uh do what you can to emulate the highest love that you feel you're capable of. Have a great day.