Breaking Down BC’s Budget: What It Means for Businesses & Residents

In this episode of Red Tape, we break down British Columbia’s latest budget and what it actually means for small businesses, entrepreneurs, and everyday residents.

On paper, budgets often sound promising but how do these policies translate in the real world?

To unpack this, we’re joined by Corey Redicop from the Langley Chamber of Commerce, who brings direct insight from the business community and a front-row view of how economic decisions are impacting people on the ground.

We explore the growing challenges facing small businesses across BC from rising operational costs and regulatory pressure to shifting market confidence. As affordability continues to dominate conversations across the province, the gap between policy intent and real-world outcomes becomes more apparent.

This episode dives into:

•  The true cost of doing business in British Columbia 
•  How recent budget decisions are affecting small and medium-sized businesses 
•  The realities of inflation, taxation, and economic pressure 
•  What business owners are actually experiencing right now 
•  Whether current policies are helping or making things harder 

Beyond the numbers and headlines, this conversation highlights the human side of economic policy. From entrepreneurs trying to stay afloat to communities feeling the effects of rising costs, the discussion sheds light on the broader implications of today’s decisions.

If you’re a business owner, entrepreneur, or simply someone trying to understand where the economy is headed, this episode offers a grounded and insightful perspective.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:30

Welcome back to the Red Tate Podcast, where we unpack the policies and regulations and economic decisions shaping life and business here in British Columbia. I'm your co-host, Nick Veronian, and I'm your other co-host, Renatri. Today's episode is an important one. The provincial government has released its latest budget, and while the budgets often come wrapped in big headlines and political messaging, the real question is what do these decisions actually mean for small businesses and every resident here in BC? And to help us break that down, we're joined by somebody who works directly with local businesses in the community every single day. Our guest today is Corey Redicoff, who is the CEO of the Greater Langley Chamber of Commerce, a role he has held since April of 2022. Corey has been a strong voice over business owners across the region advocating for policies that support entrepreneurs, local investments, and economic growth. Through his work with the chamber, we hear directly from people who actually derive our economy about the challenges that they're facing and what policy changes could make a real difference. These are small business owners, employees, and community leaders alike. Today we're going to talk about the new provincial budget from the perspective of the people on the ground and how it affects small business and whether it addresses affordability and what it means for the future of economic growth here in BC. Corey, welcome to the show. Yeah, thanks for having me. Yeah, we're excited, man.

SPEAKER_03 1:49

Looking forward to it. Thanks for coming. Yeah, before uh I figured before we dive into it, right, let's uh let the listeners kind of get to know you personally a little bit. So what do you do when you're not uh being the CEO of the Langley Chamber of Commerce?

SPEAKER_01 2:01

Uh yeah, not not a hell of a lot. We it takes a lot of time. Uh so we're always, yeah, when we're we're we're in in policy discussions or we're working on on behind-the-scenes stuff or we do 50 50 events a year, so I'm always I'm always doing some work thing. Um but I've got a 11-year-old at home and and uh so a wife and a daughter, so we just like family stuff chill things, yeah. Um catching up on our our our streaming shows or those types of things. So yeah, we have a pretty chill existence, but I'm not doing all the other stuff because a lot of my day job is people facing, public facing, so it's nice to be a little quiet on the outside.

SPEAKER_03 2:32

That is fair. I and I understand that completely. So you mentioned streaming shows, what are you watching right now? Oh well, yeah, you gotta be on the pit.

SPEAKER_01 2:39

The second season of the pit. I haven't started that. Oh, okay, yeah. You gotta do that. You gotta do that for sure.

SPEAKER_03 2:44

That's the hospital show in Bitburg, right?

SPEAKER_01 2:46

That's like the yeah, like the real life ER kind of thing. Or not real life, but like yeah, like the better version of the ER, yeah. Um so that one's really good. I've been trying to find something new. Uh for my daughter, we like kind of sci-fi. So we've done we've burned for the X-File, so now we're trying fringe. Yeah, so these some some old cuts to see what we can find.

SPEAKER_03 3:01

Yeah, not bad, so going old school.

SPEAKER_01 3:03

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:03

I heard X Files is actually coming back. Yeah, they're doing a reboot.

SPEAKER_00 3:06

It was filmed in BC, I think. X Files. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:09

There's a lot of like there's a lot that's been filmed in BC that we just didn't know when we were younger. We just assumed like the setting was in the States. But yeah, BC has been home to so many well-known movies, like X-Men being one of them when I was in tech in 2000, right?

SPEAKER_00 3:23

A lot gets filmed in Langley because I know that they get the uh the tax breaks.

SPEAKER_01 3:27

Yeah, we're just we're just enough to count for uh for that. Yeah, and and we've got lots of studio space there and some cool, cool destination spots. Yeah, I know like and they yeah, like Hallmart movies and things. We do a ton of those out there at Fort Langley and locality brewing. They have all their space, so there's a ton of stuff that's happening in Langley.

SPEAKER_00 3:43

Yeah, I'm in Fort Langley myself, and uh we've rented out a portion of our property on multiple occasions for those Hallmark ones, and uh so yeah, it's an inch it's interesting because you get to see what a set looks like, you get to see some actors here and there, how the process is. It's really cool. And uh I have a niece who is uh she's really she's in what is she in 11th grade now, and she's big into you know production and she goes to uh Fort Langley Fine Arts School, so that's like her. Oh, this is that's her jam then. Yeah, so yeah, whenever uh we get those opportunities, she's always there.

SPEAKER_01 4:10

Yeah, although I always feel weird that they'd be filming like a Christmas special in like August or April or something.

SPEAKER_00 4:15

It's like yeah, they get into the mood when it's like 30 degrees out, but yeah. And then they leave our house with like the fake snow. Yeah, and all that. Yeah, exactly. Oh my god. But, anyways, yeah, it's cool to see for sure. Yeah, it's cool to see. But yeah, so I wanted to ask you, um, kind of digging into Langley Chamber a little bit. A lot of people hear about uh, you know, they hear the term chamber of commerce. Yes, but they don't fully understand what it is, right? So um what role does the chamber actually play?

SPEAKER_01 4:41

Yeah, it's it's a it's a yeah, it's a terribly old-fashioned name. And I've actually I have had someone ask if there's an actual like chamber somewhere with like leather-bound chairs or something secrets. Yeah, exactly. It does sound like just cigars and like yeah, wood paneling and stuff. But like really, we're we're not a part of we're part of government. Everyone often thinks we're part of government. Um, because it kind of looks like that, but no, we're a private business group, so we're we're likely largest business association. Um, and there's chambers in every community, so yeah, so we've got a board of trade, and we're we're a chamber, and those things are interchangeable.

SPEAKER_03 5:10

Yeah, I'm in the Surrey uh board of trade. Sorry to cut you up. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 5:12

No, so I know the team there well, and we all do similar things um for our own communities. And we just think there's so much value for in in you guys are in business. Like it it's you can have your head down working on projects, trying to make payroll, or whatever you're trying to do to build your business, that can be really isolating. And I like if I go home and talk about oh, I've got trying to I've got issues with my PL or my ballot, like those aren't issues that my spouse knows she's not in business. Um my friends and people don't they don't talk about the business things. So like have a network around you, people who are business, other business owners, other professionals. So whether you're yeah, a plumber, a hairstylist, a food processor, it doesn't really matter. Everyone's in the same ecosystem. So we will our role really is to be that a platform for that. So we think there's value in putting those people together. And nowadays there's not a lot of places where kind of everyone comes together. Um, there's industry groups and there's uh neighborhood groups and there's cultural groups. There's not a lot of places where kind of you can put everyone, big business, small business, all parts of the community, all different walks of life, new people who are here for three minutes, people who've been here for three generations. And and nowadays where everyone seems so partisan and everyone's in their silos and your phone only lets you see people who are already think like you. We think that's even more important to have places where different people and different ideas come together. So that kind of platforms a big part of what we do. So that's true and just being a place where business can feel that they've got someone who has their back, is on their side. Um, and yeah, in an economy like this, that's that's important.

SPEAKER_00 6:35

Yeah, yeah, being able to foster those relationships. I mean, I'm a part of your chamber, Language Chamber of Commerce, and the relationships that you build, uh it's absolutely valuable. I mean, you get to connect with so many different people. Uh, you don't have to have any sort of um industry similarity, but you find ways to to be cohesive and and to even potentially collaborate.

SPEAKER_01 6:55

So it is a fantastic uh well, and because sometimes you if you you're meeting people and it's like, oh, how's the how's the start of the year been for you? And it's like, oh, it's been terrible. Oh, yeah, well, it's been good for us. Like, what maybe we can learn something there. Or like, oh yeah, it's been dire. Okay, good. It's not just me, it's something else. There's something in the ecosystem kind of thing. So either way, with whoever you're talking to, whatever you get out of it, there's lessons to be learned. There's and I always say, like, if you without a network, like you have to either know everything or hire everything. Uh and if you have a network around you, I can pick the phone up and ask somebody, how did you deal with this HR problem, or who do you use for this, or how did you solve this IT problem? And then you can get stuff from a network around you. Otherwise, I have to know everything, and then yeah, help me.

SPEAKER_03 7:33

That's not that's not gonna work. Yeah, I agree. And uh, you know, as I would say that uh learning, if somebody already has dealt with that problem and has the experience firsthand on how to solve it, it's so much easier to get a straightforward response rather than having one, it takes time to problem solve without a doubt. And half the time, when, like you said, when you have to hire out everybody, um, they're telling that you that you need a Ferrari when really you need a Corolla.

SPEAKER_01 7:55

Yeah, I think going forward, I mean, like it's it's more and more, I think it's gonna be more and more important for kind of referrals, networks, things that are vetted because you're gonna be able we're just gonna Google everything. You can't tell what's real, what's not, what's AI generated, what's not. And is is someone even, yeah, everyone will say, Oh, I'm yeah, I'm a local whatever, and I'm plugged into the community, but are they even from around here or they just made it look like they are? Oh, yeah. Um, or and and do they know what they're doing? Because now everyone can can look real slick online because the tools are that'll let you do that. So now it's like, well, actually, who did you use? Who do you know? That kind of thing's gonna matter even more, I think, as we go forward into whatever's coming next.

unknown 8:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:31

Do you see AI changing anything with regards to that dynamic?

SPEAKER_03 8:34

Good question.

SPEAKER_00 8:34

Because you brought up AI, and I was like, you know what? That is a perfect way to kind of show the value behind being actually connected with somebody as opposed to the.

SPEAKER_01 8:47

I think, yeah, I I think you're not gonna be able to trust anything. I'm I'm optimistic on AI, I'm not, I'm not a pessimist, but I think it is gonna destroy trust. So I think it kind of credibility is gonna be the new currency. Yeah. And so who do you know? Who can you actually talk to? Who do you have a refer who can who's someone that has that's been around that someone can bet for or vouch for? Um, because without that, you're just you're just flying blind. Yeah. So I think, yeah, I think AI is gonna is for local businesses, local groups like ours, local media. Yeah, I think actually I would I would be optimistic from that front. Maybe I'm being naive, but yeah, um I think it would because I think it's there's gonna be more value in what's what's actually happening locally in my community, who can I actually talk to as opposed to the first thing that comes up from whatever bot you've asked.

SPEAKER_00 9:28

Right. Yeah, I think that's huge. Yeah, AI is uh something we're keeping close, close to have especially in what we do, me and Renash as real estate agents, uh, because we're due for a disruption, I think, in our industry and many industries alike. And so uh it's good to hear that you're optimistic about it. That gives me optimism. Things for a loop for sure.

SPEAKER_01 9:47

Um but I like to think of it as more, I think I see it more as a tool, at least for the next like, yeah, X number of years, it's gonna be more something that it's a tool that will disrupt, that will change how we do things. Yeah. Um, as opposed to just the robots doing everything. Correct. Maybe we'll get there at some point, but for the foreseeable little bit, I think it's gonna be something that if you know how to harness it or or if you can figure it out, because that's the the the line I always like better is is like AI is not coming for your job, but somebody who uses it is. So it's it's that if you can figure out how how does it make you more efficient, then that's that's a superpower, then as opposed to something you're afraid of.

SPEAKER_00 10:18

I totally agree. From from a again, from a real estate agent perspective, if if you're a real estate agent that you're you're charging people money to book showings and open doors, you might have some trouble, right? When when the other real estate agents they use AI to enhance their jobs, enhance their performance, and actually provide real value, that's gonna erase, you know, there's something like thirty, not 30,000, but pretty close to 30,000 agents in the lower mainland. That might erase a good chunk of them. So, you know, I think, yeah, it's gonna enhance your role, I think for sure. Um, Langley in particular, I think um it's obviously it's one of the fastest growing communities. Yeah. Um, our chambers is one of the fastest growing chambers. Uh, there's a lot of, you know, me personally, I've met a lot of very um insightful, educated, well-rounded uh individuals across multiple, multiple industries in that chamber. And it's like I said, it's so incredibly valuable. Um, I wanted to ask you, from the chambers perspective, which industries do you see are really driving growth, would you say, in in that Langley area?

SPEAKER_01 11:18

Well, I think it's it's I think we're in a transition. We're starting to see more uh manufacturing moving in. We're starting to see more kind of like the if if you might have the head office or something downtown, but you're seeing more branch offices opening up there. We've always been kind of yeah, a very strong retail and small business community. Obviously, ag is always been big in Langley. Some people don't always think about that, but 78% or something of our land is agricultural ALR land. Absolutely. Um and yeah, we've all and so I think manufacturing, we've always kind of punched above our weight on that. Food processing for sure. It's a little bit it's a challenging time for that sector right now, but that's always been something that we've punched above our weight on. And I think it is so I think long-term, as we start to build out um the Fraser Highway employment lands and Gloucester hopefully getting transit, and we're starting to see uh uh the the bus rapid transit might open up Port Kells area, Walnut Grove more. Like there's we'll start to see, I mean, well, more of those kind of advanced manufacturing value add things. I know in Langley City, they're looking at more tech and innovation because they'll be right around the sky, trade and more condensed. So I think what you're what it I think it'll be a very broad-based economy in Langley. I think what it what it is is it's not it's not downtown, yeah, but it's also so you're not in that space and it's you have some little affordability, there's a little bit of a little livability is a bit better, but then you're not so far out there that if you needed to get to Vancouver for something or Burnaby, like it's just yeah, you're you're right there, you can still do it. But I think there I've I've seen some pendulum swing back where maybe people kind of thought they could move too far away, and now they're going, oh, that's it's a little bit removed from kind of the core totally two and a half, three million kind of region I want to be a part of to be out a little bit too far. So I think Langley's really well positioned. You guys would know kind of what trends are more than I would, but I mean I think it's really attractive for people, and that's why my family lives there and why we're seeing so much. I think people move out that way.

SPEAKER_00 12:59

Yeah, no, I absolutely agree. I think that's like it's kind of a little bit of a diverse uh area in terms of all the different when you go from agricultural to to manufacturing and just everything that's involved, I think that's probably its strength compared to a lot of other municipalities, I would say. Um I know you you're in in the Surrey uh Board of Trade, and that's also a very diverse range of businesses and stuff.

SPEAKER_03 13:20

Manufacturing, retail obviously is massive, but um yeah, construction sales is huge out this way.

SPEAKER_01 13:26

So I think South of Fraser is where all the action is. Like if you're if you're locating a business, like if you were to look at where your where are your employees coming from, where are your clients gonna be coming from, what infrastructure do you need? Highway, port access, the border, the highway out to the rest of Canada, like South of Fraser positions you so well. So Langley, we're all we're all in the same region here. Um I think it's the way we're all positioned quite well for growth. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:48

Yeah, and uh, you know, we'll I'm sure we're gonna touch base on this later, but just to kind of acknowledge something that you just said about that, it was uh so last Friday, Nick and I actually went and uh listened to David Eve speak about the budget. And one thing I didn't uh it's funny enough, like being a realtor, and I didn't think about it like this either, but geographically BC is placed so well in the world in general that there is no reason for us to like the more and the more I thought about it. Sorry, there's no reason for us to not be thriving here.

SPEAKER_01 14:17

No, yeah, it's it's self-inflicted wounds what we're dealing with. We have we are well positioned, we're the least trade exposed to the states of any of the provinces, so we should have been less impacted than anywhere else. Again, it's there's uh we have the access to the Pacific Rim, and I mean it we have so much going for us that it's a shame that we we don't yeah, and you said self-inflicted wounds.

SPEAKER_03 14:36

That's uh pretty strong choice of words, which I'm sure we're gonna get into plan to get in there, so I'm glad you mentioned that.

SPEAKER_00 14:42

Yeah, yeah. I mean, this budget, I mean, we'll definitely get into the meat and potatoes of the go. I mean, it's massive. Um, I think probably a great segue question. Um, as I said, you know, a lot of the people um or a lot of the business owners in the Langley Chamber, again, they're absolutely um what's the word I'm looking for? They're they're such quality business owners that they have the potential, like all of them have so much different potential in so many different areas that it's crazy. Uh, from your vantage point, what trends are you seeing amongst those entrepreneurs? Are they are they optimistic? Are they are they cautious? Are they expanding? Are they pulling back in their business? What are you seeing more of?

SPEAKER_01 15:21

Well, I think you don't get into business if you're not, I think, naturally optimistic because you think you can do more and you can do better than somebody else and you're gonna grow. So I think every entrepreneur is there's always they're always optimistic. They're always thinking that some that they're they're gonna make a go of it, or else you wouldn't be in business. Uh, but there's definitely concern and caution and and kind of storm clouds on the horizon of not directly above us, kind of thing. And yeah, so we're definitely there's the the on like hiring, the pendulum swung. Like we a couple when I started the chamber, like it was you have a heartbeat perfect, come on in, we need you. That has that has swung because businesses just aren't hiring as much. There's and they're trying to see like what can I do? If I used to have for my busy spring season, I would bring in five extra people, maybe I can get by with three. Right. And there's those, those, so those those challenges on do I need to do I need to bring as much in? I'm not making as many decisions. Um, I think businesses at some point have to make decisions. So we are seeing a little bit of that moving. Um, and some of the macro numbers, Canada wide are showing that as well. Where where last year was a lot of sitting on the sidelines and kind of weathering the storm, and I think now people are realizing that it's not a storm, it's just the weather. So you have to just get on with it. But you can't you can't not invest, you can't not do make decisions for forever. Yeah, um, because that definitely we were seeing like if you're in HVAC people were telling me that no one's getting new systems, they're renovating, they're maintaining things, or if they're not they're not getting new fleets, they're tweaking their old fleets and making them last a bit longer, or they're not getting them the new machines. And and but you can only not make those decisions, you only defer for so long. Yeah, so eventually business has to get done. So I think we're starting you're starting to see some of that uh in the macro number showing that there's maybe there's the it's it's softened, but it's not as bad as it could have been. Yeah, um, so I think businesses are they're all they're always optimistic, um, but I think we need to kind of get out of their way where we can, support them where we can as consumers, and and kind of yeah, hopefully that we're we're we're got a little bit of an easier road going ahead. Because that's one of the challenges. Every time I do a uh a media thing or talk to or talk to government or something, it's like, oh, it's it's been a really challenging year. Well, actually, no, it's been a really challenging two years. No, it's been a real challenging five, like it's been we've been, we've been the pandemic and then the inflation, and then the labor challenges, and then the tariff thing. Like every year there's been a once in a generation kind of challenge, yeah, which no one else had to deal with, and now it's just this perpetual crisis mode. And it's like, look, and how do you we had a panel of retailers at the end of last year, and like the the takeaway was one of them was their takeaway for 2025 was like flat is the new up. If you could get through that year just kind of holding things together, yeah, that's a win. Because how would how do you your budget? What are you comparing your budget to? Everything's been thrown in the air. What are you comparing anything to? So if as long as you if you were flat, like take that as a win and then figure out well, what other business lines can I do? What can I be doing in 2026 to maybe make myself a little bit stronger? But it's uh it was yeah, it's just been one thing after another.

SPEAKER_03 18:02

Yeah, there's uh points where I look up at the sky and it's like, you know what, God, I'm still not throwing in the towel. I'm not giving up here. I don't know what you're just saying.

SPEAKER_01 18:11

And we can, I mean, like the trend line for business entrepreneurship is has been on a long decline. I mean, we can't, but I'm always afraid of if you have too many of these headwinds that somebody is just like, oh for God's sakes, for forget it. Like it's not worth doing. I'm not gonna start a business or I'm not gonna grow or I'm gonna get out. And if we chill entrepreneurship, well that those that's the next generation of of business owners. So we if people are afraid or not confident of getting into business, what does that mean for 20 years from now when those mature businesses aren't around? I agree.

SPEAKER_03 18:38

And a lot of you know, growing up so I grew up in Surrey my whole life. Yeah. And you know, uh a lot of the friends I went to high school with, you know, their parents had uh self-started businesses that grew. And what I saw in the last maybe five years now, um, at our age is now they're inheriting businesses. But it is not often now that I'm seeing people start new businesses, one unless it's inherited. Yeah. Um and two, I just feel that I and correct me if I'm wrong, tell me how you feel about this. But I feel that we are not incentivizing entrepreneurs, and at the same time, that's not incentivizing innovation. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:15

Well, no, I mean I think that every time you put another barrier in front of someone to make it harder to be a business owner or to be an employer or to hire somebody or whatever. Anytime you put a new barrier and it makes it harder for the person to start a business because then they're gonna be looking at do what can I find the retail space? Oh my if and this is just in a retail example, but like can I find the space? Can I afford the space? Okay, now there's insurance and all this red tape, and there's to try to do any tenant improvements is gonna take me six months, and to hire people now it's gonna be so expensive. Like every time you put a new barrier in place, it makes that the math doesn't math anymore. Like it's not worth it. Yeah, and then we and then as one person we lose. Now multiply that across the entire economy. So, no, I mean I'm definitely definitely, I mean, and buying a business is I mean, that inheriting a business is is nice too, but like buying an existing business, that's a way of getting in. Like, you don't have to start from s from scratch. And you have lots of businesses that are aging out and will want to want to sell. But I think, yeah, what what I'd be afraid of is we start if we're seeing young people not starting out on their own, and then people who maybe are just calling will put in their hands up. And there's been a few businesses that I've chatted with who who are maybe were in their 50s, mid mid-50s, and they would have had another five, ten years before they thought of exiting. But they're just like, I'm not, I'm yeah, I'm not gonna ride this all the way down and rebuild it again. So they're just getting out. And it's just like, well, that's not great to see because you you had a bit more runway if it hadn't been if there hadn't been so many roadblocks thrown up there in front of you.

SPEAKER_03 20:29

I cannot agree with you more. And you know, just by getting this place opened, I can't tell you the amount of red tape I went through and and just through the city alone, just with getting permitting and their lack of response and their lack of communication internally. Um, and the only person that had to pay for it all was me.

SPEAKER_02 20:45

Yeah at the end of it.

SPEAKER_03 20:46

Yeah. And it was frustrating, and I can understand it, but then it gave me confidence and it as well. I was like, you know what? Nobody else is gonna open on up if they know what a headache they have to do with it. So that could decrease competition. But nobody else will get in. It's not that easy. At the same time though, see, people are just more risk averse now than they ever were. Um, I feel like there is I just feel like the amount of red tape that adds on to the level of risk and the fact that policies are changing so like frequently taxes are being added on that you can't how do you really gauge your risk for the next five years? How do you really want to commit to something? Because it can either make or break you. And yeah, I mean that's uh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:33

I mean, I I think you guys both already alluded to it. I mean there it seems like something is changing every month. Yeah. If it's not weekly, at least monthly. Something is changing, something's coming into play that um disrupts uh consumer confidence, entrepreneurial confidence, uh buyer and seller confidence in the real estate world, right? And and so it's hard to kind of uh have the stability you need to kind of keep growing. So to your point you made earlier, I mean it's kind of encouraging that through some of the macro data you're starting to see people are kind of now accepting the reality for what it is and understanding that you can't have your foot off the pedal anymore. It seems like that's kind of what you're starting to see.

SPEAKER_01 22:12

Yeah, we're starting to see some what I like to do, I like to obviously I've had lots of anecdotal evidence of talking to our members and those types of things. And then I just look at kind of I get we get macro data nationally and provincially and then do those jive if not, why not? Or okay, maybe this is a trend that we're starting to see localized here. So yeah we're always I'm always kind of watching to see what's what are the numbers showing and it's always a lagging indicator because they're reporting on GDP from December or something and we're in March or whatever. But it's um I think that that it's it's important to kind of look at that big picture stuff. But I mean yeah we're we're every time you turn on the news there's another a cris we're in it's a constant crisis. And and it's hard to tell what actually is going to impact you and what is just noise but it's all there. And it takes and it takes oxygen out of the room and it takes your mental space to to pay attention to it. And that's all stuff that you're not putting into your business or your families or whatever. And yeah I think I think people are just overwhelmed with how quickly things seem to move, how much news there is and yeah it's it's it's a challenging time.

SPEAKER_00 23:08

Yeah it totally is and news is at the tip of your fingers now.

SPEAKER_01 23:11

Well yeah you you could you could open the newspaper up well that was bad news and then you'd go off your day and you wouldn't worry about anything else until tomorrow morning when you open the next paper. And now it's it's gonna it's gonna be bong in your pocket as soon as something happens. That's a and it's yeah it's hard not to constantly react to that. So I think in in in business and in life I mean you just have to know what you want to do, what's your strategy, where where what's your lane and try to own that do as well as you can you can't you can't ignore what's around you but you also can't give it all the attention that you have because that's what if you can put what you're focusing on yeah your TikTok and everything onto your actual business or your career or your goals that'll be what moves that down the field. You need to have your head on a swivel and know what's coming at you because you don't want to be blindsided but it's I I've I've seen people who get just bottomed down and in things or they're they're so involved in something it's like I don't know how you have the time of day for that. Because you really should be over here and focusing on the things that are more productive and that's that's all that's all we have the control of we don't have the control of of what's going on in overseas or the states or something. We can control how we react to it though, right?

SPEAKER_00 24:12

We can't control what Trump does no matter I don't think Trump can. So nobody can control what he does right so yeah but no I think that's that's really sound advice on from your part and and so I mean getting right into the budget $13 billion deficit this year 12 billion next year 11 billion the respective year it's kind of going in the right direction but very slowly yeah and you know that's if it actually goes in that direction right on top of that 15000 jobs lost um an increase in income tax uh an expansion of the PST um these are all mass I think these have massive implications for the future of VCA and you know we'll get into it but you know I think there's two from what I've seen and what I've looked into and what I've read about there seems to be two narratives around this budget. The government narrative is that these these sort of borrowing practices I guess if you will they're necessary to maintain services and to uh invest in long-term growth right whereas you know the critics uh of this budget um they're kind of thinking hey well rising deficits uh increased taxes regulatory pressure um how is this possibly gonna make BC competitive and and and affordable and thriving for the next years to come and and and they can't see the light beyond that right so um two different two very very different narratives um and obviously uh it's hard to you see when I look at this budget I'm not even looking at what's going on this year I'm looking at what are those implic what is this budget implicating for the future yeah and I think you know that's the scary part to me.

SPEAKER_01 25:47

What and and I I think yeah you mentioned a few of the different tax changes and things I mean I if the if these if those aren't canaries in the coal mine I don't know what it is because we're at 13.3 billion I think it is deficit. That's after the 15,000 jobs that they they cut that's after expanding the PSD increasing the income tax freezing the income tax they've already took all those shots yeah and then it only got us to 13.3 billion. So it's like forget getting to balance what's it going to take to get to six yeah the good old days of five billion dollar deficits like where we did all those things and we're at we're at record breaking 13. So like what is like something else has to happen then there's gotta be more tax coming there's gotta be more changes coming if they're ever going to get this under control. So that's the concern I have is that what this is the thin edge of the wedge of something else coming in going forward. Because yeah but these are but these are big numbers the PST expansion oh who like what is that who cares? It's a half billion dollars it's re these are re these are real dollars that we're talking about um the pe the income tax I think is 400 and something million so that's a half half a billion let's round that up freezing it is is is hundreds of millions of dollars hundreds of millions of dollars so these are real this real money we're talking about. And yeah and it and it's we're talking about competence and why would you start a business or why would you start a business or start a family or and and if we're looking at well where where where am I going to start my business or where I'm gonna buy real estate like we have to be making sure that it's competitive to do that in BC and that people aren't looking to Alberta or looking to Washington or not looking somewhere else um or or or leaving the country. Like the bounce rate for new Canadians is insane the number of people who immigrate to Canada and then in five years say well that didn't work and they go somewhere else. It's happening more and more now and more like my goodness I I live in Langley and I grew up in Surrey like I moved 10 minutes down the road in my entire life. People have moved across the entire world and they and it's not worth it they're gonna go somewhere else like I mean that's that wasn't a light decision they made. Yeah and and so I mean the fact that that bounce rate is so high is crazy. But it's just like in in your guys' space like it's it's if people aren't we if we're if people are buying real estate to open businesses if you're having two kids three kids because so they need a bigger home that's what drives I imagine real estate forward. If every if everyone's ooh I'm not quite sure what this what's going on with with with opportunity here and if jobs are oh maybe those are what maybe I won't we won't start the family or we won't start the family yet or we're gonna get by what we have or we won't start that business. And that's I think how you get the downward spiral the other way. So it is just it's beyond the big macro things of the numbers and what that means for for how we're gonna pay for all these things it's just that it's that confidence game right yeah it a hundred percent and like I I I don't think we can tax our way out of this.

SPEAKER_00 28:19

I'm not sure if it's a revenue problem. I think it's more of a spending problem right and um so I don't know you know if we can if we can really tax our way out of this I mean a lot of what people have told me when I you know I have various discussions throughout the course of the week whatever the case is and people are well why don't we just tax the rich more and well the answer to that is we are we are actually incrementally taxing the the the upper wealthy 1% a little bit more right through things like property tax. Your home that's over three million dollars you are now uh getting an increase uh to your to your yearly property tax that's that's gonna make up a difference and and so I don't know at what point are you gonna continue to tax the rich before now you're discouraging the rich from being here.

SPEAKER_01 29:00

Well and the the challenge with taxing capital is that capital is smart and capital is mobile is mobile and it can just move somewhere else if it gets too punitive in one jurisdiction. So and and fine I mean how many like how many billionaires do you think there are in BC there's not that many you could you could tax them all a billion dollars you probably still wouldn't fill the hole like it's like we're there's just not that many rich people to to to do all this like you need to have a balance there there's they're gonna have to have revenue they've they've they've gotten revenue in this budget i this got this government I can't see going backwards on that because the dollars are so big but that it is a spending problem they need to figure out what are we what are we doing the conversation needs to be what are we doing that we would like to do and it's nice to do but we just can't afford to do it. I'm not confident that that conversation has happened at government even with these 15000 cuts because the narrative they've the the finance minister premier they've kind of mentioned like it's it's through attrition and suggest and reallocation of things and maybe if you go in retirement early those aren't those aren't hard conversations. That's the easy stuff. Like letting someone not not hiring someone when they when they go when they retire and not replacing them that's the easy one. It's that no one sat down have you sat down and said we're doing these things and we got to get rid of some of them even though they're all worth it. That's the hard decision which I don't think has been happen with has happened.

SPEAKER_03 30:17

So when we listened to um when we were listening to Evie speak about that budget okay so there was three things that kind of he was that obviously a big amount of the budget is going towards now the three things that caught my eye was um healthcare it was also through um with schools with getting more teachers and everything funding into schools and the third one was investing now into our court systems which I also feel like all three of these things were also in like you said self-inflicted wounds. I also feel like that kind of sort of came down from the federal government policies over the last 10 years with um how their lack of control on immigration right so we didn't have the infrastructure to support the amount of growth that they wanted um or at least spread out the amount of growth.

SPEAKER_01 31:02

So I I I think that's pretty widely accepted now that you have to be matching infrastructure investments with with population growth. But wherever wherever that population growth is coming from if everyone suddenly having 10 babies you you better you have four years now to build a bunch of schools because you know they're all going to be going to kindergarten like I've I've schools you would have thought would have been the easiest one. Yeah schools and kind of long-term care because you know when everyone's being born so you add four years to kindergarten and then you add 70 for long term care like it's it's not hard to figure out the timeline on that. And so yeah that but so I think yeah that that that got out of whack for sure.

SPEAKER_03 31:34

Yeah and sorry I've been cutting you off now no no no you're good you're good I was just wanted to kind of say that these are all things that yes I do agree like you know what we do need healthcare like you know I just broke my toe I'm pretty sure and I'm talking about how I'm waiting to get an appointment with my clinic to get a referral so I don't have to wait in an emergency for eight hours and I'm walking around with a limp as we speak, right? And we've had we've heard seen headlines of uh people waiting in care not getting the care and dying right in the spot and so I understand the backlash and I understand I have friends who are nurses and I understand the stress that they are under the health care. So I totally understand spending on that. Then I also understand obviously with schools I have a cousin who's a teacher and she tells me the stress I mean I can totally understand having 40 kids in one class and having to manage all those kids. It's not simple. It's it's a lot of it is a lot of strain and but the one one big one that frustrates me is how we're investing into our own courts over um policies that essentially are a catch and release program and it's the spending going into that is to then find use more resources to hold them more accountable to hold them in longer so they're not just getting away with our loopholes. So I feel like a lot of the spending is it's not necessarily um it's not meant to drive economic growth but more so to fix current problems as a band-aid and then the rest of the spending isn't necessarily acknowledging an economic driver. I mean yes I he was talking about spending into mines and everything and but realistically what does that really do for the current people in the lower mainland aside from having the potential now to bring in revenue to the province but do you see 30 years later. Yeah, 30 years later 20 years later.

SPEAKER_01 33:22

And we're that's that's that's another problem.

SPEAKER_03 33:24

Yeah and he was bragging about how they sped up like the permitting process so fast that the mines uh like one of the companies uh Milligan I think it was is talking about already open getting another one going because how fast they did it. And to me that's kind of fluff because we are so slow as it is and they obviously we have the resources that these companies need that they just accounted for that already in their performa and the fact that we got it done half as fast yeah sure now they can just say okay cool we can double down and get another mine but that doesn't necessarily mean I think it's fair when they say okay yeah we did it so fast I think that's very vague because what is what is your definition of fast? Do you never put how long it actually 12 years? Yeah well I think it takes that long to build it.

SPEAKER_01 34:07

If the challenge is if yes if you've if you've allowed the timeline to become so long that it's it's ridiculous cutting it in half might still be is that objectively still might be too long. Correct. The government has made a lot of it they have put a lot of attention on mines and mining and they've made some some some progress in that space and and so credit on that front and there's a few good things in the budget too. It's just a challenge that is it's buried under all the the red ink of of the of the deficit. I mean and I think that that's that's challenge when in in government I don't I wouldn't want the finance minister's job. So um but yeah because it's so much of the budget is just locked into health and education um just even those those two things you can't there's there's there's tons of money there you need those frontline services. I mean we're in Surrey I mean the Surrey's only getting the the investments in schools that they kind of needed when I was going there. Like it's it's a generation behind. So we we you need to make those things so there's only so much you can you can cut there. Surely that I'm sure there's some streamlining and some and and the governments acknowledge that they need to be looking at management levels and all sorts of things in in the healthcare system. But all the more reason then if 70% of your budget is tied up in these core services which is what your mandate is that then what you're doing over here you need to be really laser focused on well what else are we getting involved in because we're kind of hands are full over here. So what are we doing in this space and why are we doing it and how do we get it to be as efficient as we can and all the more reason to figure out what do we do to just get out of the way of private enterprise so that businesses whether they whether they be mines or windmills or retail stores can do things create jobs to drive the revenue that's allowing you to pay all this money for the services that you can't get that are that are structural. Those are built in you're you're not going to get away from having to build hospitals or schools because the people are here.

SPEAKER_03 35:42

Yeah and from a personal standpoint like I do you do you uh lease your retail you have a retail space right you were mentioning your business uh no so we yeah we no we the well well the chamber owns our we have we have our our our office we own it yeah so when um with leases typically when you're signing a retail lease for example you're signing on to a triple triple net lease right so property taxes go up if uh property management fees go up all that we have to it gets right down to the tenant and it's acknowledged that it can fluctuate so that that that goes into what's called um additional rent right and so that number whatever you sign on to today could change to tomorrow whenever but you don't know anyways now with the PST expansion for example because now the PST expansion is going into strata management for commercial services. So now without no like without it goes without saying now on my lease is going to go up.

SPEAKER_01 36:32

Well it would have to because now it that's your your strata management seven percent more extensive your your security camera outside is seven percent more expensive correct um whoever whoever built this the builds the next one of these their engineering architecture all those services are seven percent more expensive so I mean it's it's yeah that that's where that's where you're getting the 500 million from is because it's they're they're sucking real dollars out of the economy.

SPEAKER_03 36:53

Exactly and honestly like if I didn't have to keep spending say for in if that money could end up going towards fueling growth well and I would end up hiring more people.

SPEAKER_01 37:03

I think that is that is a challenge philosophically that I have with people who don't who aren't in business or haven't been in business or haven't been around business people is that there's a mentality that well then there's just all this money sloshing around that of course you can afford this and it's like and or if we if we cut a tax or we reduce a cost that's just going to go straight into your pocket. So that it's just such a such a naive way of thinking about business because what that's gonna allow you to do is if there's if there's seven the whatever seven percent you're paying over here now and all these things that the tax has gone on that's money you would be spending on staff on new equipment on marketing exercises on all sorts of things to grow the business. It's not just you're not just gonna put it in a jar on the counter like it's gonna go to be done to something. And then you're gonna be spending that on a on a refresh website with a local person who Joe's website design here in Surrey. Then Joe's gonna take the revenue from that and he's gonna spend it on something for his business and that and that's it's productive then when you're using that money split if I'm pulling this out and what am I doing with all that money? Well a big chunk of it what nine nine percent now eight percent whatever it's gonna be going going out the window for debt service payments because we have that we have to pay interest on the $13 billion that's not we're not gonna get anything for that. Or if it's just getting sunk into some government program somewhere that's that where where is that black hole going to so that's a I think there's a there's a there's just a mentality that business owners and especially small business they're all sitting on a bunch of unearned or unclaimed dividends and and they can just tap into that it's just not a reality for most small businesses. I think the 98% of business in BC is small business the vast majority of those are micro businesses under five like these are we we are a small business driven economy it's half the GDP it's half the jobs it's it's important that we get that part right. We have to get the big things right too we need the mines and the the big hydro projects and the big LNG projects and and the pipelines and things because we big small business needs big business to buy from them. And there's the the supply chains on those things are incredible to the pipeline might be a pipeline or a major project might be nowhere near you but you'll have a purchase order from them because they'll need your service or your product. Like they it they the the tentacles of those things are huge. So we need those big projects to go through but we can't only focus on that. We need to focus on small and medium businesses because that's also a big driver. And there's just so many more of them that it's if you if you tinker with nothing wrong you can really have some unintended consequences.

SPEAKER_03 39:18

Yeah and I feel like that uh that mindset is very divided in BC because a lot of BC is labor focused and a lot of the jobs are crown jobs like are directly tied to the provincial government. Right? So especially let's and I guess what what I'm trying to say this is I really want to level with our listeners right now whom are nurses, whom are teachers, whom are you know in these fields that are relying on tax dollars to obviously for their wages to help get more support around them to grow the schools to get more resources. Now the one like one huge fact is with this deficit is when I was looking into the running the numbers today just looking at them just briefly so at a 5% interest rate for every billion dollars we have uh we have we're in deficit we're paying $50 million. 50 M. So at one point when our deficit is at $3.3 billion we're gonna be paying roughly $653 million annually just to interest. Imagine if that could then that interest wasn't we could just use that interest money payment.

SPEAKER_00 40:23

Let's solve the housing crisis let's do something productive let's get another hospital go away. Let's do something productive with it.

SPEAKER_01 40:28

Yeah that they call that yeah the the interest bite I think is what they call it in the duck budget documents. And I think it's yeah without it in front of me I think it's going from six to seven to eight. Like it's it's that's on every dollar you're getting that seven eight percent is just right off right off the top is going out of the province to whoever owns the debt. And so you're not getting anything for that.

SPEAKER_03 40:45

And it also I feel like it's creating instability too for private investment to see come come in here as well.

SPEAKER_01 40:51

Yeah right and and that's why when you see oh credits being degraded downgraded and all that because it's is if you're going to invest somewhere and somewhere and someone has 32 what is it billion dollars over the next three years and you can foresee that there's probably going to be more taxes or more costs to recoup that. So is it's gonna I'm as if I'm coming in as a new investor I'm gonna be the one on the hook for that. Whereas if I go to the jurisdiction that doesn't have that much debt, well then maybe it's more more attractive there. So that's why those kind of and the credit rating goes to how much money we're sending out the province for the for the debt but all these things are tied together for why would why would somebody want to invest or make the next decision make that purchase and we need to be encouraging people and talking about opportunity and growth and the future and making sure your kids can be better off than you are and instead we're talking about yeah how much of a hole we've dug ourselves yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:37

So I have a strong question for you here. Do you feel like the based off the policies in the red tape we've received provincially and federally do you feel like we're actually making real economic decisions that are long-term driven or are they more short-term driven?

SPEAKER_01 41:54

Well I think one one of the things I've liked this I've liked seeing over the last year is if governments of all stripes at all levels seem to at least on the surface be talking about growth. They're talking about business the the premier mentioned bragging about how many mines they got like that wouldn't have been the NDP premier wouldn't have been talking about how many mines we approved how quickly a few years ago. So like everyone has oriented themselves at least in narrative narrative and framework around that we we need to have growth and and whether at the federal level we're talking about in expanding all of our our trade things. So I think at least at that level we're we're seeing at least the right attention if that's the right word um it's just are we seeing the actions and the policies that actually would would allow that to come to fruition. So I think it's probably a little it's a little too early to to pass judgment on some of these big macro things like if we're gonna if we're are we gonna double our non-US exports that's gonna take there's gonna that's gonna be take a runway even with if if you had a magic wand it's gonna take a while to get see that come to fruition. But it's it's if we're talking we need to have we need growth and we need to make sure that we're as competitive as we can be um that we wouldn't be having the conversations we've had so far about this this budget in VC if we were really doing that hard work. Because I've just we're not we're not seeing that we don't see we're not seeing the roadmaps to to growth and opportunity that we need to be seeing we have there we're not seeing a a a credible plan to get the numbers under control so that we're more competitive. We're just not seeing it on paper. So you can yeah you're I I appreciate that you're you're talking about it and we're and at least we're we're framing everything around this but we've got to figure out how we get it from here to actually be in that 700 page budget document that we were reading.

SPEAKER_03 43:27

Yeah and in in all fairness like I you're right like it's it's good to see them um talking about it now. But of course like to be honest with you I don't believe that our provincial government at least I don't believe that uh their economic response has been tested up until now because now we're we're actually it's we're in that situation now where our economy is getting lower and it's noticeable and now it is their it is their job to respond to it. I feel that's that has a key reason of why their priorities are shifting to economic response. Obviously it's a like I I don't believe that they're talking to the right. They should be talking, I think, I believe to guys like you. And saying, like, you know, and trying to before putting these plans and budgets together to see if there's a way of, you know, kind of assisting in both ends, I guess it's hard to say. I know it's a tough job. It's a tough job. It's a tough job.

SPEAKER_00 44:19

I was just gonna chime in and say, you know, it's a really, really tough job. And you know, even to your point earlier, you were saying, you know, they invested in in health services and healthcare and things of that nature. Even that capital investment uh is not making a lot of people happy, right? For example, they've cut certain programs and cut funding from certain areas of the healthcare system and put it into other ones, and people are like, well, now my family's not gonna get the benefit. Like, what was it? Um, so they so they removed a bunch of funding from from the autism, uh like all the families that were uh affected by this uh by autism, and and they removed a lot of funding from that, but they reallocated it into a new program that they're saying now is gonna be more uh spread out. So it's gonna, it's gonna, that money is gonna affect more than just autism. It's gonna affect you know multiple facets of like FAS and people and other other other children that never had access to any funding.

SPEAKER_01 45:12

Right. They don't have access to some funding. Yeah. But if it's the if it's if you're if you only have so much in the pot, then that means somebody's somebody's getting less if someone else is getting net made. Right. And so and and th and those are those are what horrific decisions they have to make and manage those stakeholders. And they've I've this is outside of my expertise, but this is I I've this this spot policy file they've kind of launched and walked back two times, I think, and they've finally gone ahead with it because it is a very sticky one. Yeah. Um but I think those those are the things that I mean in the end of the day, we need, we need that's that's the kind of that's what government should be doing. Right. If if if a child has FAFs and they need support, that's what the government is there for. Right. So it's like so when I say like, yeah, are you look what look at what look at the things that the hard things to do that you want to do that you shouldn't be doing, that's not what we're talking about. It's it's not that that's the social, so those are the social services that we need to be doing. It's just it's it's uh so those are those are tough conversations and tough decisions I'm I'm sure that's it. And you'll never make everybody happy. And you'll never make everybody. Uh so yeah, so I mean I think also I I'll I I I'll try to I try not to cash shade on some of those types of things. Of course. But it it's when we're yeah, when we're looking at and yeah, the the the the regulations, the the changes to the labor code and employment standards and and and even things like minimum wage and all this, like it's just like there's this a drip, drip, drip, drip, drip march in one direction. Um, and we haven't had a rebalance to make sure that things are are things even and balanced for for all sides of the economy. Yeah. Um and I think we've we've just been marching kind of in one direction. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:33

Yeah, and sometimes I feel like the policies they make can be impulsive, especially let's just say, for example, towards our housing market, right? When the housing market back in 2016, when it started to fly up, what did they do to cool it down? What did they do? The introduced a foreign buyers tax uh basically.

SPEAKER_00 46:48

Which foreign buyers account for less than two percent of all the sales here in British Columbia. I mean, it doesn't make any difference regardless, but and then there was the short-term rental ban. Short-term rental. The short-term rental ban.

SPEAKER_03 46:58

So now with the World Cup coming up, they're asking people to um uh offer up their places. Oh, well, that's funny because you told us not to, and now you want to do it.

SPEAKER_00 47:07

Is it they introduced a ton of regulation and policy that again they didn't have their boots on the ground, they weren't consulting the people that do, and they're making decisions that really they're not understanding the implications of, at least from our perspective, I would say.

SPEAKER_03 47:20

And I think that's sorry to chime in there, but yeah, yeah no, no, that's good because like two more big things I want to bring up. There was also the four-month um uh tenant uh yeah, that was a huge one too. That was a huge one, and they didn't understand, then they moved it back to three months because they didn't understand how financing works if you're buying a tenanted property. Then you can't actually make the purchase as a buyer if it's rented for four months.

SPEAKER_00 47:39

So you have to give a four-month notice to get the tenants out.

SPEAKER_03 47:41

Yeah, exactly. Unless you're buying it as a rental property, that's strictly because you're inheriting the tenants. Yeah, and you're inheriting the tenants. Which nobody wants to do. Exactly. And well, the biggest one to me was a key driver is tourism in Kelowna. Right. Now they Kelowna's tourism market is completely dead. They have wineries that have been owned in the same family for 50 years closing up, and you know, breweries are closing up. It's just it I don't feel like they actually pay attention. They did, and that was just an impulsive decision. They said, okay, we're gonna ban short-term rentals so then people aren't buying real estate for the sake of buying it for a short-term rental because we want to create long-term homes. But when it comes down to reverse engineering it, okay, what do we need? Homes. What do they need to do? They need to get permitting done. Let's speed that up. In the election, they brought all that up and it just went quiet, and we're just going like more and more.

SPEAKER_00 48:30

Well, they said they needed to add more homes. Sorry, we can go off on a report. Yeah, we'll we won't, we won't, we'll keep that part. We'll keep this segment short. Well, yeah, they said we needed to have more homes, and then they're they decided to add PSD to on developers to make it even harder for them to build them. And then it's like, oh, we're trying to bring costs down.

SPEAKER_03 48:48

That's I don't know. And this is where it's like it's simple economics where the cost always goes to the consumer. Yeah, of course. So if you're somebody who's happy that, oh yeah, like, yeah, awesome, developers are paying more money, or you know, that's they're all rich. But at the same time, the more the money they save, the faster they can get a project done, sell you that project, and move on to the next one.

SPEAKER_00 49:08

Well, it's to Corey's point too. I mean, there's a misconception that developers are all rich, greedy, you know, assholes who don't care about anything except their own pockets. But there's a lot that they go through on their end with, you know, with the city, with different municipalities, different regulations, different rules, uh, different subsidy programs, different rental uh restrictions, and you know, all sorts of things that they have to go through where uh it is tough to turn any sort of a profit, especially nowadays, and we need housing more than ever because our real problem is a supply issue. Yeah, regulations have have kind of slowed things down over the last two years, but our real issue has not been solved. We simply don't have enough homes. Right. And when all of these things change again, when immigration, when the immigration policy changes again, which eventually it has to, in my opinion, where where are people gonna live? We're still gonna have that supply shortage.

SPEAKER_01 50:00

And the challenge, I mean, because out in lying, not every developer is is these massive ones that are are vertically integrated and have all the things and are able to finance these projects themselves. There's a lot of small-scale developers that were yeah, the the pro like the pro forma, the numbers don't make any sense. They won't they won't be able to build and it just won't happen. Like the big ones can build regardless. Um, but yeah, so we have to make sure that well, what are what are the actual market implications of this? And then when policies can policies come in in 2019, well, the market might be a very different market now, and aren't all those still the right policies? There's a challenge sometimes on some of these things is to then, but you also kind of have to let sometimes things run a little bit. So, like, yeah, we have to we have to see on the immigration thing. We have to see what two, three years looks like with the with the numbers as they are before we can really cast judgment on it. Yeah, um, and even some of those other regulations, sometimes you need to let them run for a bit to see are we seeing stuff and and yeah, I mean, and like rent, I know one of the one of the things they will hold the government will hold up is rent payments are coming down. Yeah, I'm sure there's lots of there's lots of probably macro things feeding into that. Yep. Um, but it's like so on some of these things, if if we want affordability, there's there's a few different ways you can crack that egg. Ideally, you'd go at it with with kind of all of the above, and maybe as opposed to just maybe yeah, rubbing a blunt hammer for one thing and think that's gonna solve it. Yeah. Exactly. Because you can, yeah, you can you can ban every foreign buyer if we don't build enough houses. That's not gonna do anything. Yeah, um, is it it is there is that perhaps potentially a piece? Potentially, maybe, maybe not, but it has to be part of a cohesive thing. You have to be doing all the different parts, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 51:26

Yeah, well, I mean, it's a supply and demand issue. I can throw I can throw a rock out the window, hit a developer, like 10 developers who would create the supply if it was incentivize incentivize if they were incentivized to do so easily. And that's why, like in tying this back into what you said earlier about capital leaving, I can honestly say there's there's investors, the people who were building and developing areas here, whether they're commercial complexes, residential, they are taking their capital because let's not forget, they're tying up their own personal capital into these projects and financing them to get them done over a course of four to six years, roughly, give or take, right? Um so yeah, like they need to be incentivized, one, and at the same time now they're seeing the dollars that they're spending when they're ta talking about the capital that they have to put down on the interest payments, they have a better ROI, so return on investment, if they were to take that same dollar amount and go even just across a province in Alberta. And I've even been uh there's one developer I was talking to, a broker that I know, and he's telling me about a client that he helps. Um that uh he just goes there, he gets it up to permit ready station to build, and he makes it then he sells it just before at that point where it's ready to build, and he makes a great margin compared to over here. Oh yeah, it's a fantastic strategy. Yeah, to do that, but take it all the way from start to finish. He'd do that in and it's only he does this within a year or two. To do that, just to get it to that point, it's four to five years. Then you gotta take on the headache to build, and he would make half of what he makes doing just that.

SPEAKER_00 52:59

People are doing that with homes, single family homes in White Rock, just because it's so hard to build a single family home in White Rock. Forget a townhouse complex. Single family homes in White Rock are so tough to build. There's so much red tape around it that that's what they're doing. They're buying an old house, tearing the house down, uh, getting the lot ready to build, and then selling the empty lot. They don't want to build it.

SPEAKER_03 53:18

Right.

SPEAKER_00 53:18

So yeah, so if you're listening, I'm not gonna be.

SPEAKER_03 53:21

If those tax dollars stayed here, it could go towards your deficit.

SPEAKER_00 53:24

Also, if you're listening, I have a lot for sale on Burning Drive in White Rock. So you guys let me know. He's waiting for that one. Yeah, I know. I had to set that one up. But but you know what, I think uh, you know, also, Corey, you kind of also mentioned there are some good things about the budget too. Yeah. Um, and and we'll kind of get into those as well. But I think, you know, when you look at the global state, you know, not just Canada, not just British Columbia, but I think there's um there's slow economic growth globally, right? And there's there seems to be instability globally. Um, we're not in a global recession, right? I think the global GDP is expected to go up 3.3% in 2026. So we're not in a recession or by any means, but it's slow, right? And it's not stable. And so we also touched on this earlier as well that BC is geographically uniquely positioned. We're on the Pacific. Um I think there is something to be said about where we're located in the world compared to everybody else. We we've had a lot of negative talk about the budget, but how do you think BC? I mean, is it is it harder now to do business here when you compare it to the other provinces? Or what's your opinion? Like if you if you were talking to a young entrepreneur today and they're like, hey, Corey, should I start a business in British Columbia, Alberta, or screw it, should I go to Washington State? I mean, what what would you what would be your advice? I mean, what would you think?

SPEAKER_01 54:44

Well, yeah, I mean, I'd all yeah, I don't always think of home team advantage. I'd always tell them this to stick around here. I think BC has a lot going for it. Yeah. Um, I think, yeah, yeah, Alberta has a is has a competitive uh business climate, but they're they've got a $9 billion deficit. Yeah. Um, I mean, it might be changing every it's changing every day now depending on what oil does. But uh but they've they yeah, they've still got a nine billion dollar deficit and they're and they're not as big as BC. So I mean that's probably per capita. I don't know the numbers, but it's probably just as bad. Yeah. Um Ontario is is having a rough go of it. So no one, to your point, no one's like a unicorn that stands out. Um but I think yeah, so I mean I think BC's got a lot going for it. Um I think yeah, we've always had I mean, we've always had a cost of living challenge here, an affordability challenge. Since the 90s, it was it was all that was always a thing that you would come to BC and bring cash kind of thing. That was that was the the the joke out here. So um, but I think just the the the number of the the population we have here, the the growth we have, the way I the way you can, yeah, the whole the the mega this mega city we have in the lower mainland where you can kind of be you've got through a market of three million people, really kind of spread out the whole region, you can access all of it. And then we yeah, with the ports and and you have access to the states. So if you want doing that stuff here, that's that's great. But yeah, we have all these connections to the Indo-Pacific and China and Asia. Um that like we have lots of people in in um Langley who are sending blueberries over to Asia and sending furniture over to Asia and sending lumber products. So like because we it's actually it naturally it's obviously it's geographically close, but we have lots of people here who have those connections, and if we can empower them to how to make those to make those connections, I think we're we're well positioned. So there's a reason why, yeah, we're the least trade exposed to the state's province, because we haven't we haven't only been building, I mean it's we're still that's they're still our by far our number one client, but we haven't only been looking at that. So I think it's it's a I think a good thing, just like the pandemic kind of shook everyone's head around supporting local and and you you you have to reshore supply chain to be making sure that you have stuff here. The tariff thing hopefully has shaken everyone's uh consciousness to be okay, maybe we do need to be looking broader. And I know lots of people who are getting now, they're getting their aluminum from from Korea and they're getting stuff from from Asia. We've got uh a one-one supplier who's who's uh gets um machines and stuff for restaurants and things, is getting them all from China. So you're already seeing that. Because margins are better, they're better product. Um and he doesn't have to it doesn't have to worry about whatever's going on with with stuff of the states because it was it was both ways. We had it was obviously stuff going into there was tariff, but then we we retaliated with our own tariffs, and we have lots of businesses in Langley because we're we're right on the border there, where it was, yeah, you were getting things that were going down there that could potentially be tariffed and then they're coming back being tariffed, it was just a nightmare. Um so it's just it's it's yeah, it's it's unfortunate that we've gone down this road with with the trade thing. Because it's just again, it's another thing that sucks all the auction out of the room. The number of businesses I've talked to who are spending, who especially last year when this was this really reminded me of the pandemic where every time you open the news, turn the news on, like we're masking, we're not masking, we're in a bubble, we're not in a bubble. Like it changed every day. And it was the same thing. The tariffs are on, the tables are tariffs are off, the 10%, the 20%, it's steel, it's not steel. But during those months, businesses were spending real money in real time on consultants and lawyers, and I know people who were preloading aluminum down there since November when Trump was elected. I mean, they turned out looking like they were they were pretty smart on that. Yeah, but that's they had a warehouse they had to secure, and they were preloading stuff across the border. Lots of companies were doing that, and that was tying up capital inventory. That was that was a waste to do. Yes, it ended up maybe making sense in the long run, but we shouldn't have had to been doing that. So just the amount of money and effort and oxygen that went into navigating these challenges, all that to your point could have been spent on growing the business and investing in the business. And and we I think but I think both sides of the border would have been better off if this last year we had spent that time growing as opposed to kind of figuring out the lay of the land.

SPEAKER_03 58:28

So let's just say like from from what you're seeing, like that was actually great to hear. Like I I did not know that uh that it's happening already. That it's already happening already, and that we're actually I'm always I when I'm thinking of the whole time I was thinking about like our exports going uh out, like business kind of coming in, but the fact that we're we're making relationships um overseas by even imports like that for supplies, that's great to see. So do you feel that just let's just say uh the tariffs get removed after Trump's um term? Let's just say they get removed. Do you see that kind of enhancing like it just opens up a whole new world to Canada overall? Because we're it's not like these relationships are also gonna be like I guess in a way it could create more competitiveness. Um I think that's like globally.

SPEAKER_01 59:14

That's what's gonna that's what's gonna burn them in the end, is that once once you've you've shifted shifted your aluminum supplier to a contact in Korea, you're not just gonna, as soon as the midterms are over, go, okay, dropping you, I'm going back. They're they're enormous. They're right there. We share cultures and time zones and languages, and of of course it's it's natural that we're gonna do lots of distance with states. So and we they know it, we know it, we need to get Kuzma sorted out. Like it's it's that has to happen. Um, but I think what but but on the on the margins of that, yes, absolutely, those relationships, those new supply chains, the things that have that have been bubbled up and built up over the last year, um, and between now and whenever this is all sorted, those are those are gonna have some permanence and they're gonna stick around. So I don't think the states will ever get back all the business that they lost because those things have moved on. And I think it reminds me a lot of of the pandemic when you saw businesses that maybe, yeah, maybe the restaurant or the cafe, you they could only have so many people coming in, or people weren't coming in as much. So then they also they had to go figure out, well, now I'm gonna do delivery boxes, and now I'm gonna do cooking classes, and now I'm gonna do this. So maybe they kind of cobbled together enough to keep the lights on with all these different business lines. Once the pandemic was over, well, now their their main business is back, but now they've got a cooking school set up and a delivery thing set up and a and a and a gifting company set up. So now actually maybe some of them have are better off because they have all these new lines. So I can see something like that similarly, where well now I still have access to the my American market unfettered, or or if there's a 10% tariff or whatever we end up getting stuck with, I we have access to that, that's been sorted, but now I've actually built relationships in Alberta and in Korea and in Indonesia, and now I have more markets to sell my goods than I did otherwise. So it's I think it was not a good thing to happen, but maybe that can be a silver lining that comes out of it is that we're a little bit more resilient, a little bit more diversified when this is all said and done.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:04

And Nick and I did also uh another episode on uh interprovincial borders as well. We didn't know about that up until like Trump showed up. Trump exposed it. He exposed it and now.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:14

Yeah, he showed us our interprovincial trade barriers and our weaknesses within our own country. It's harder to get a product from BC to Saskatchewan than it is from BC to Seattle, for example, or Vancouver to Seattle. I mean, which is which is kind of wild. I mean, I know obviously it's closer, but to get it even from here to Calgary. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:30

Well, I there's yeah, there's there's w lots of businesses that would that would easily do business up and down and not and not east and west. And that that's again how close another silver line. Is there are there lessons that we can be taking from this that maybe we'll be better off for having having some of these sacred cows that have been killed so that we can actually get these things moving forward?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:48

My only worry is um we have that silver lining, you know, 2028 rolls around, there's a new administration in there, and then uh because of all this shakeup that's happened, they try to find a way to force us back to get all that business back, and that's gonna cause even more instability. You know what I mean? Because you can't put it past them now. I mean, since since uh since the pandemic, I I learned I can't predict anything with certainty. I I have no idea what the hell's going on. Don't ask me. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:16

I can give you an opinion, but it's okay. It's a fool's error. Yeah, you don't and you don't know what's what's gonna happen. I mean, my my my argument was always they're gonna get addicted to the revenue, and what's and like if you're getting a hundred billion dollars or whatever it is in in tariff revenue, even if a a Democrat or whoever comes in, they're not they're not gonna be able to turn that away. Right. Um then the Supreme Court strikes it down and says you don't get that money, but now they're not gonna refund it. But now FedEx and UPS and they're all in and Costco and they're all suing them now. So like if it's you can't you can't foresee what's gonna happen. Yeah. Um I think there's a lot of there's still a lot of of stuff to unf unfurl on that. Um but yeah, I mean I think we should assume that it won't ever just go right back immediately to where it was on on November 2nd or whatever it was, yeah. And just yeah, plan that something there's something gonna be something going on, and then just uh adjust yourself accordingly and do the best you can as a business person.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:11

Yeah, well, like I would say that uh to your point, like what would having I feel like uh Canada went ahead after getting broken up with the states that we went and built a revenge bod. Yeah. So we're gonna be able to uh ask for more. I want more out of you this time. Yeah, but you know what?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:30

You know, it's yeah, it's it's really tough to say. I yeah, we'll see. I mean, I was gonna ask the question, you know, where do you see these uh these policies, like where do you see what's the long-term vision? Where are things gonna be 10 years from now? But that's such a stacked question. You can't you can't provide any sort of insight. I mean, it's just it's so tough to say which direction things are gonna go because something that is happening right now will be completely different in six months. So there's no way to tell like what the long-term outlook is gonna look like. And that's also very tough for business owners too.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:00

Yeah, and that's like I think all you can do is make sure you get get be clear in your vision, what why you're doing what you're doing, why you're the one that should be doing it, and not somebody else. Systemize and make sure you can, you can, you have your things in place. Um, I know lots of people who, yeah, if they if they had a slower season, um maybe, maybe the winter season that was was not as good for them because of all the stuff going on, they spent that time getting systems in place and policies in place so that when, and maybe their marketing refresh or whatever, so that when they can hit go or hit the gas, they have all those pieces that they can scale again more smoothly. So that's all you can control. That's all you can control. Is is is though are those pieces thinking about what you can do differently, if there's new things, new business lines you can uh add, new efficiencies you can you can do. Yeah, there's there's no point in trying to guess what's gonna happen in 18 months. No chance. Um there's yeah, you'll you'll spend all that all that brain power on that and roll the dice, something will will mean that was that was useless, and it's all different. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:54

Yeah, 100%. My my advice for for business owners, I mean, I I I have again, we have all these conversations, you know, with different people every week. Um, you have to get really, really good at providing value, but also communicating that value as well, right? Because you could be the best uh you know, whatever in the world, but if nobody knows that you are, yeah, you're not gonna get business, right? It's like if you have a business but nobody knows about it, you're not gonna do any business.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:17

It's simple as kicks or didn't happen. Like and you need to you need to show exactly what you're doing.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:21

Yeah, and so that value aspect, especially with you know the the technological advances that we have, you as a business owner, you have to be good at providing value. Yeah, you have to give, you have to be a pro able to provide a high level of service in any industry that you're a part of. That that's been my advice to people for forever. And that's something that I intrinsically look at myself in my own business and say, how can I improve? How can I do better for my client?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:46

And that's the only way I think that's the only mindset that's gonna help.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:49

And I think that's the only thing that stops um you from being commodified. Like it if because if if you if you go boil it down to I I just I make widgets and I just make widgets, and they're good widgets. what like if you turn it into a commodity well then that person can just find that wherever or or be like if you're only I just I just provide what service X and there's nothing around there it's just but I do that really well well then you're just comparing your you're a commodity you're a thing whereas if you look at well what's my value add what's what what's the is there's is the c is it customer service is it really clarity of purpose is what is it that I'm doing that's differently what's my what why are my position in the market that someone might choose me over something else because if you just say oh well yeah just order pencils well I'll order the cheapest pencil I can find like I don't care but if you make it something that's I oh I want that pencil there's a unique thing to it or it's got a cool brand or what that's that's marketing that's brand like there's a reason you gotta create create that value sometimes for yourself and I think that's what small business can do really well is they have that experiential thing. Like you can't yeah they you won't be able to compete with the big international online retailers and things on price point. But you can but you can compare again going back to our conversation around AI am I gonna buy these sneakers that are might not actually the picture might not even be the sneakers it's gonna come and they're gonna look like crap. I have no clue what it's gonna be so like but there there's something that is that they so they they can't compete on price but they can sure as hell compete on having that sneaker there that you can see and maybe the and or if it's a fruit food product or something you you might might know the owner or know the provenance of things oh this is all organic or this is this this is a family owned farm that made this thing people people care about that kind of genuine stuff. And I think small business can provide that whereas the the big box and online things they just they they only can compete on on shipping times and and costs they can't compete on any of that stuff. So that's always been the the the that's always been the the secret sauce for small business. I think for service providers for for every industry it's figuring out well why me? Why would someone pick me and be really clear on on that and then and then sharing it. And not like you need to toot your own horn constantly somebody has to you need to and you need to be proud and I think it's it's yeah it's less like kind of vainglorious or boisterous and like oh I'm just gonna talk about myself because I I like to do that.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:56

It's but like if you're not proud and take take pride in what you're doing if you don't think you're yeah bagels are the best bagels well then why the hell would anybody else think that's right so you've got to at least be passionate about it believe in what you're providing right you don't go and uh you say I'm the best realtor in the world and if you're working with any other realtors you're dumb. No that's not the thing. You think you're able to provide a high level of service and you're doing a service by letting people know that that service exists. You have to believe what you're doing.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:24

And I know I know lots of people in your in your space and some of them yeah they I they love they they love working with businesses and they're on their own commercial and that's that's that's their jam and they get and they get really good at that or some people love when they're first time buyers and that just that whole that whole story I'm sure it's I'm sure dealing with first time buyers is probably a whole other kettle of fish. But some people think that maybe that's your thing and you just really jive for people who are younger families and that's something that you can provide something to that and you that's uh maybe you have a lived experience you can show like whatever it is like find the thing that you're passionate about. So we do and you've been to these we do networking events and these kind of things all the time and and nothing drives me more insane than someone says oh I'm just uh I'm just an insurance agent I'm just a real estate person oh I'm I just own a bakery like like if you're not gonna be proud of it no one's gonna care like I couldn't agree more. Oh yeah I'm in real estate isn't it yeah or I'm an investment guy and then oh my we'll talk about the markets like holy hell like yeah that's what I I love for the I live for this kind of thing because this is or I make I might have an awesome bakery you should come on by I'll make you a matcha like if you're not gonna be I hate the just like it yeah like you you've got to be proud of what you do. Because why the hell do you get up every morning?

SPEAKER_03 1:09:25

Like holy hell yeah exactly and people can sense that passion from you right and it's exactly you have to really believe in your product without a doubt.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:32

And then people can also can can sense bullshit too so like you need to actually feel it um and if you're just if you're just spinning then maybe people can sense that too yeah. Without a doubt.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:42

Yeah authenticity is key right that it is key so I mean I think we've I think we've kind of dogged on this budget quite a bit I mean for the last hour or so we've kind of dogged on it and that's okay. There are some good things I mean what did you see that was good?

SPEAKER_01 1:09:54

What were some positive takeaways from it the regime yeah so I mean I think they they're um I think you mentioned the court system like there they are investing in in some more crime and justice stuff yeah they there's a pilot program in there to look at like uh like street level disorder I think one of the challenges that we we see in Langley I'm sure in Surrey is is yeah there's there there is obviously like extortion needs to get taken care of guns and gangs I mean that's that that's over here and sometimes that is is rightfully gets a lot of attention. But like a lot of our small business merchants like the challenge you're gonna have is somebody just smashes the window kicks. Or we have people who who yeah they rip all the wires out of the HVAC system at the back of the restaurant and now the the ovens don't work. Like that's not that's not guns and gangs it's kind of grinding street crime stuff. And and so there's an there was some funding for a pilot program to work on that kind of repeat chronic property crime stuff and the focus on that I liked. There's a huge win 15% refundable tax credit for manufacturing and processing which people we've been asking lots of people have been asking for forever and they did that. So again like if you're if you're manufacturing stuff you're making things you get a new you get a new press a new CNC a new factory line a new whatever new ovens for your bakery you can get yeah this will make them 15% cheaper yeah so you can actually invest in doing more being faster um maybe making making packaging that yeah if you're if you're gonna be selling things in in Korea maybe they want things in a different size or format. Well you might need a different machine for that and this will make that cheaper so that was a huge win um and and uh and there's there's there's there's so there's little there's little tweaks and things around around on that in some imp important programs. Yeah it's just a shame that yeah I've and I've done lots of media and have lots of meetings and talked to lots of people and and all that gets lost in the noise of all the big stuff. So if they could get the big stuff out of the way then then we could we could give them some credit for that and that's that's the big uh that's the big problem.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:40

I think that's the big question is can they get that big stuff out of the way? Yeah I'm not so confident but you know I'm we have no choice but to move forward and navigate things as best that we can and that and in our position like yeah we're not we're we've been around for 95 years or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:54

Like we deal with governments of all stripes we get along with people of all stripes um it's is we want to see competitive policies and competitive economies so that everyone could be successful. Whether that comes from left right up down I don't really care. Of course it's it's yeah it's just it's it's a challenge then when we yeah are we get to go to budget lockup and see all the details and they're and they're as jarring as they were so we just have to we have to say what we think because we because we we give this feedback we make submissions and we write letters and we go for meetings and we're giving this input so when we don't see any of it reflected we've got to we then that's what we're talking about.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:26

Yeah no and and even like as realtor like you said like everyone does good it's like I can tell you it's a whole lot uh of a better experience when you're helping somebody buy or sell a home because their family's growing or you know they're taking the next step in life versus they can't afford it anymore. Yes. You know it's you want to see we definitely as realtor I want to be on the other side of the spectrum. That's where you get to do the job smiling every day and not more so being empathetic.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:53

And well if everyone's doing better everyone's doing better exactly. I mean and one of my and and yeah one of my favorite lines is is yeah I mean we've got we've got challenges and in Langley and Surrey like we're growing so much there's so much construction sky tray and all this like but those are all growing pains and I always say like I'd much rather have growing pains than shrinking pains. Because there are lots of communities where the mill is shut down or the mine's not working or whatever it might be a big employer's left and now kids are having to leave town because there's no jobs and instead of yeah instead of you're having in a traffic jam and you can't get to your local bakery local bakery is gone. So I'd much rather have growing pains because we can manage those if we have the right policies than the shrinking pains that so many other communities have to suffer with that 100%.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:32

Super insightful conversation uh Corey again we really really appreciate the last one that I have for you maybe this will maybe this is a big one maybe it's not I don't know but if Premier EB uh called you up tomorrow and said what's the single biggest thing that the government can do to help small businesses what would your answer be Yeah I don't think I don't think there is a silver bullet.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:52

I think that's the that would be the message I would say is that don't stop you gotta stop looking for like the one big announcement to the one flashy thing. Because it's not that it it is it has it's the been the drip drip drip drip of changes every day and bad news and broken windows and employees not showing up and can't find this and can't get the supply chain it's that cumulative piece. So I think that I I would think just a recognition of that we would love to see like yeah can we have a comprehensive look at what's the state of small business in BC and and the state of regulation for small business in BC and and and has that moved too far in one direction or the other and can we fix that? But there's not going to be more big things give everybody a check for this well that's not going to solve anything or cut one one regulation here that's not going to solve anything and then think you're done. And because that wouldn't be the way I want either is that we get one we get one flashy thing and then they never talk about small business again. So it really needs to be we need to be looking at small business as a living breathing thing that needs to be supported at all times. And if we can do that we'll be better off than than looking for maybe yeah one off.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:54

Love it. Yeah love it man well again thank you so much for doing it yeah pleasure has been fantastic and again this is uh the Red Tate podcast uh hope you guys enjoyed this episode uh if there's any questions or any concerns or any um anything that you might want further information on you know feel free to shoot us a message or a DM call us our numbers are probably all over town so uh and uh and we'd love to chat with you more about it so uh yeah thank you again Cory appreciate