#6 What Do You Do When You First Notice a Loved One Is Struggling with Addiction?

Episode 6
What Do You Do When You First Notice a Loved One Is Struggling with Addiction?
In this episode of The GDC Project Podcast, I sit down with my mom, Maria McGrath, for a deeply personal conversation about one of the most difficult moments a family can face — the moment you realize someone you love may be struggling with addiction.
As a family member, it’s often confusing, emotional, and overwhelming. You may notice small changes at first — behavior shifts, secrecy, mood swings, missed responsibilities — but you’re not sure what it means or what to do next.
For Maria, that moment came when she began to notice changes in me during my addiction. Today, with years of recovery and perspective behind us, we talk openly about what families experience during those early stages.
In this episode we discuss:
• The early signs families often notice but struggle to understand
• The fear, denial, and confusion that can come with those realizations
• The mistakes families commonly make when trying to help
• Why education and understanding addiction is so important
• The power of communication, boundaries, and support
Addiction impacts the entire family — not just the person struggling. Our goal with this conversation is to help families feel less alone and provide guidance during a time that can feel incredibly uncertain.
If you’ve ever wondered “What should I do when I first notice something is wrong?”, this episode is for you.
Because when families learn, grow, and support one another, greater days truly are coming.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome back to the GDC project. I'm here with my mother, Maria McGrath. Could say hi at the end of the moment. Hi. Before we get started on today's episode, which is going to be about when families first notice someone has a problem, I wanted to introduce the legacy circle. So the legacy circle, Gabriella's Legacy Circle, is something that started today. Today, well, today's March 2nd. So yesterday, March 1st for the month of March, and then moving forward on a monthly basis. The Legacy Circle is a group of individuals that are working together to help a loved one, a struggling one, overcome addiction. The Legacy Circle has two different options for monthly subscription. The first option is a monthly Zoom with topics and emails sent daily with articles and information on how to help a loved one overcome their addiction. The next level up would include private coaching. So if you'd like to be a member of the Legacy Circle, click the link in the bio or go onto the website and you could read more about what the Legacy Circle is. All right. Let's get into today's episode. When families first notice someone has a problem, what families should do, what they shouldn't do, what they should expect, and what the next steps next steps going forward as a family is. I think one of the hardest moments as a family is realizing that someone in your family has a problem. There's confusion, denial, fear, anger, feeling of helplessness, overwhelm. And most families don't have a roadmap for this. This is where we're trying to come in as the GDC project and help families kind of navigate the nuance and difficult process of having a loved one struggling with addiction. Today we're going to talk about what families can do when they first notice something is wrong. And step one is recognizing early warning signs. So I'm going to transition this right over to you. And what were some of the early warning signs you notice with either myself or Gabriella or your husband?

SPEAKER_01 2:12

Okay. I first uh was introduced with alcoholism from my husband. And it wasn't that he drank daily or weekly. His addiction was when he started, he couldn't stop. So that took me a while to realize, because in the beginning, you're all having fun, everybody's drinking, you don't realize there's a problem. That transitioned to my children as well, thinking they're at the age, they're just partying, not realizing that they were a pro it was a problem. I really started, I knew my daughter had a problem when she was hospitalized. Um she was a nurse working at White Plains Hospital, and she admitted herself to Greenwich Hospital, not the hospital she was working in, because she was having all these symptoms. Come to find out a week later that she was detoxing because she was stealing drugs from the hospital. So that's when I really, really knew that she had a problem.

SPEAKER_00 3:21

I think a lot of times we when we're suspecting a problem, um, we tend to like second guess it and not really, there's no way my daughter has a problem or my son or my husband has a problem. So we really want to focus on the early warning signs. So those are things like personal personality changes, isolation and withdrawal, financial problems, mood swings, changes in sleep or appetite, losing interest in their responsibilities. So there's a lot of early warning signs that can come about that we may not suspect um is a problem. Like things I noticed with my sister is secrecy and lying was a big thing for her. Um, and then even legal work or school issues, big problems. And the most important thing with identifying a problem early is trusting your instincts. Families, I think most of the time will know before the individual acknowledges them. And I think you made a good point with like you're just having fun with dad, with me, you're just having fun, you're just having fun, then all of a sudden it's a problem. Correct. And I think identifying the problem and understanding that there's a problem is kind of really step number one.

SPEAKER_01 4:43

I had a hard time. I would say, even if you said, or Britney said, Oh, she's stoned. I'm like, nah, I don't think so. You know, I I I was a lot in denial. Uh, but when I found out, it caused me much stress. Uh, there was definitely mood swings when she was deep into it. She would be very mean. But my real daughter, when she wasn't stoned, would be really nice. So there was that mood swings, but that's when I knew there was a problem. Prior to that, I was I think I was in denial, honestly.

SPEAKER_00 5:18

But why do you think you were in denial?

SPEAKER_01 5:22

Because I didn't want it to be. I didn't want it, I didn't want to go down that road. Um, a lot of times you take faults, like, what did I do wrong? What could I have done to prevent it? I didn't raise her that way. Um, so it's a lot of denial for the addiction, but a lot of denial for me as a mother that I wasn't able to help my child. That was a big, a big thing for me to realize that I couldn't help her. I tried so many ways. And I wish I knew then what I know now, I would have attacked it a lot differently. I was very emotional. I was too busy being angry to hear what she was saying to me. I didn't listen to what she was saying. I could have been a better listener.

SPEAKER_00 6:14

I think a lot of times when you know you always want the best for your child.

SPEAKER_01 6:20

Of course.

SPEAKER_00 6:21

And then it's almost like the denial was wanting the best, but seeing something else. That it couldn't be. That it well, what do you mean that it couldn't be?

SPEAKER_01 6:33

She couldn't be the best that she could be in that situation.

SPEAKER_00 6:38

In that situation, yeah. She couldn't be the best in that situation, but you still wanted the best. Of course. So do you think you were denying it because you didn't want to see it, or is it self-reflection or something you were trying to hide from? Like, I'm trying to just get into that. Like, why? Because me and Brittany always knew right away, like, she something's not right. Something's not right. And it wasn't just you, would it was you, Nana, Zia, everyone would be like, no, no, she's just not feeling well.

SPEAKER_01 7:07

She's good. You know, she's not bad today, she's having a good day. Meanwhile, she's stoned.

SPEAKER_00 7:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:12

Um, I think for me, it was the hope. I was hoping she was okay.

SPEAKER_00 7:18

It was just the hope of it. So let's go to the the segment two here, the the common family mistakes. And like, if you think about mistake number one, ignoring it. It's just a phase. Like, I I know with me, with my alcohol, like it was, you're just, it's you're young, you're supposed to party, you're supposed to drink. It's just a phase.

SPEAKER_01 7:40

It's okay.

SPEAKER_00 7:40

It's okay, whatever. They're young, they're going through it.

SPEAKER_01 7:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:43

But I didn't like for me, I didn't realize like starting drinking and smoking young, how it would affect me as I got older.

SPEAKER_02 7:51

Correct.

SPEAKER_00 7:52

And like you said, it's it's just a phase. Do you think you ever felt that when Gabriella was going through her struggles?

SPEAKER_01 8:00

Not with the drugs. Um, and not when she was young drinking. As she when she was married and she, you know, uh always had a drink. It started with eating, then drinking. But she lived in Florida for all those years, so I didn't realize how much she was drinking.

SPEAKER_02 8:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:20

Until she came home. And then you'd be at a party and she'd be just like dad. She would start and she couldn't stop. But it wasn't like she was drinking every day. Which is when she started, she she had to get drunk.

SPEAKER_00 8:31

Yeah, I mean, that's was me too. Yeah. Once I started, it was drink to get as drunk as possible. Uh, mistake number two is immediate confrontation with anger. This leads to defensiveness and shutdown.

SPEAKER_01 8:43

Exactly. If I had to do it over, I would never speak to her or to have a discussion while she was stoned.

unknown 8:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:50

Well, that's it's having discussion while she was stoned, that's one thing because it's they're not really comprehending anything you're saying.

SPEAKER_01 8:57

No.

SPEAKER_00 8:57

But I feel like a lot of the time we would, I mean, especially me, would like get angry with her.

SPEAKER_01 9:04

Oh, I was angry. I was too busy being angry.

SPEAKER_00 9:06

Too busy being angry. And I and I don't think like you talk about emotion. I don't think we could help the individual if we're angry.

SPEAKER_01 9:13

And we're I was very emotional. Very.

unknown 9:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:18

And if you think how she reacted when you were angry.

SPEAKER_01 9:22

She became angrier at me, and it was a back and forth, back and forth. It was a toxic relationship. Very toxic.

SPEAKER_00 9:30

All right, so we have mistake number one, ignoring it. Mistake number two, immediate confrontation with anger or any confrontation with anger. Number three, mistake number three is trying to control the person, monitoring ultimatums and threats.

SPEAKER_01 9:43

Right. And I learned this anything with um any kind of abuse, you didn't cause it, the family didn't cause it, you can't control it, and you can't cure it as a family. And that's something to remember.

SPEAKER_00 9:58

Yeah. And I think the the controlling the person, even like these ultimatums, these threats, when someone's getting sober because an external source, they're like much less likely to stay sober. Because then they're just getting sober, so the threat lowers. So like if you get arrested for drinking and driving, and you have to go to rehab and do all the stuff and and stay sober because you got in trouble, you're less likely to stay sober than in when you want to do it yourself.

SPEAKER_01 10:31

Like when she went to high watch, dad had kicked her out.

SPEAKER_00 10:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:34

She never went to rehab, say voluntarily. As a choice. As a choice.

SPEAKER_00 10:40

I need to heal myself. I need to get better. Never. It was always I have to because I I can't get this unless I do this. I can't do that. I'm I can't go home unless I'm sober. Like it was always an external val uh source versus internal. Internal source. Our mistake number four, enabling without realizing it. Um, you guys were very good at this when we were young. Covering up mistakes, financial bailouts, making excuses, and avoiding hard conversations. So covering up mistakes. I mean, I used to get in trouble all the time, and dad being a police officer, he always used to help me out. Financial bailouts. All the time. All the time. Making excuses. Maybe not so much.

SPEAKER_01 11:27

No, I don't remember.

SPEAKER_00 11:28

Avoiding hard conversations 100%.

SPEAKER_01 11:31

You think I did?

SPEAKER_00 11:33

Avoid hard conversations? Um, yeah. I think I even even in the present tense with my niece, you avoid hard conversations or won't let other people have hard conversations because you're scared of hurting someone's feelings.

SPEAKER_01 11:49

Yeah, I don't want to hurt anybody.

SPEAKER_00 11:51

Yeah. Yeah. But like when you love someone, that truthful hard conversation is a form of love.

SPEAKER_01 12:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:02

Right? And that's something that I think a lot of people are scared of, like you said, because you don't want to hurt somebody, you want to hurt somebody's feeling. But the truth in pushing someone to be the best that they could possibly be through a hard conversation is also a form of love.

SPEAKER_01 12:17

But the person receiving the hard conversation has to willingly receive and accept what you're saying. So it's a two-way show. It is a two-way street. Because I did have hard conversations with Gabriella when she was sober, but there was no reaction. No, it wasn't no back and forth. It was just me talking.

SPEAKER_02 12:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:40

So I feel I could have had more, but I do feel I'm a big communicator. And I I do try to have with Gabriella, I felt like I had a lot of hard conversations with her without the yelling back and forth. I feel in those sometimes when she did talk to me, I feel like I didn't hear her because I felt like addiction was a choice. How could she do this? She has a daughter. So I didn't view it as she has no choice. She's full of demons. She has problems. So I wish I would have approached it in a different way. And I hope through this we educate people to approach it differently.

SPEAKER_00 13:25

There was uh, you talking about that made me think about something. I was watching a video, um, Chandler. What's his name? From Friends.

SPEAKER_01 13:32

Yeah, I don't remember his first name.

SPEAKER_00 13:34

But he was getting whatever his real actor name is. But uh he was talking about addiction and he was arguing with someone. Their position was addiction's a choice.

SPEAKER_02 13:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:44

His position was like, it's not a choice. Right. He's like, and then they were going back and forth. He's like, you're right, it is a choice. My first drink is a choice. Then after that, I do not have a choice. He's like, my system gets completely overrided. I have no willpower, no discipline.

SPEAKER_02 14:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:01

He's like, so if I could avoid that first drink, I'm okay. Yeah. Which was I've that that's me too, with yeah, not just with alcohol, but with food, with certain foods. If I could avoid that first sugar binge or that first cookie, I'm okay.

SPEAKER_02 14:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:17

After that, it's like something takes over my brain where I've like I can't, I can't escape it. So enabling without realizing it. Um, just go through that one more time. Covering up mistakes, financial bailouts, I think is something people get caught up in very easily. Um, and can get manipulated very easily with whether they're truthful or things that happen, or I need money for this, I need money for that, I need money for food, I need money for Starbucks. And I think it's a very nuanced or easy way to get manipulated.

SPEAKER_01 14:57

Correct. Um, two things help me with this now after the fact. But I go to this group, um, compassionate friends of people that lost their children, and a lot of those people lost their children to addiction. Uh, and also I've read that book, Let Them, by Mel Robbins. And then that she you have to balance between enabling and supporting. So, what I learned from my friend Jean, she would say to her kids, you could come on vacation as long as you were sober. You can do this as long as you were sober. Unfortunately, they never were sober and able to go, but at least you're giving them that option or say you can live here as long as you're sober. But the minute they're not sober, you have to be strong enough to let them go. Or just buy them the food or give them uh whatever, not to hand them money, but with conditions along with that help.

SPEAKER_00 15:59

The thing that gets always got me nervous with buying them, you know, food and groceries, like you said, you want to support, but then it's like, okay, you're buying them the groceries and the food, and then their money they are making or have, they're using it for substances. So it's like, like you said, it's a nuanced.

SPEAKER_01 16:18

It's a nuanced.

SPEAKER_00 16:19

It's a nuanced approach because you, yes, you want to support them, but it's in what regard are you supporting them? And uh I don't love the if you're sober, because who's judging if they're sober? I know you're putting in your mind, if you're sober, you could have this, you could have that, but who's the judge of their sobriety?

SPEAKER_01 16:41

Well, I think as a mother, I knew if Gabriella was sober or not.

SPEAKER_00 16:45

Yeah, but like we had her come on vacation and then one.

SPEAKER_01 16:50

She got drunk.

SPEAKER_00 16:52

Yeah. Yeah. So it's like it's you send her home.

SPEAKER_01 16:56

I mean, you know, yeah, it's a weird thing. Yeah, it's a it's a weird thing. It's a weird thing.

SPEAKER_00 17:01

But um, yeah, the financial bailouts are are tough, making excuses and avoiding hard conversations. So if we think about the common family mistakes that we definitely made as a family, ignoring it, it's just a phase.

SPEAKER_02 17:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:14

Immediate confrontation with anger, trying to control them and enabling without realizing it. Correct. And that's some of the things we have to avoid. And we did all of those. We did all of those things. Um, so what are the first things a family should do? And this is where we're trying to come in. Number one, educate yourself. Like, okay, they have a problem. What can I learn? How can I help? And I don't think we did a very good job at that.

SPEAKER_01 17:41

Cause like we're doing a better job now after she's gone.

SPEAKER_00 17:44

Exactly. But like you said, it's like we're we're angry. We're you're you're trying to navigate a process where there's not a lot of information out there and not a lot of help. Like, did you ever go to Al-Anon?

SPEAKER_01 17:56

No.

SPEAKER_00 17:57

No.

SPEAKER_01 17:58

But uh that's where I learned those three things is from Al-Anon.

SPEAKER_00 18:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 18:02

Uh, I never went. Um, my friend Gene went and still goes and lost two children.

SPEAKER_00 18:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:09

So you don't know what the right answer is.

SPEAKER_00 18:11

No, you don't know. And and for me, it's like, okay, how much information can we possibly get? Because it's a social issue, it's a psychological issue, it's an individual issue. Like it's this like ecosystem of issues that I don't think we're even at the beginning stages of figuring it out.

SPEAKER_01 18:32

No. I feel like I know a lot more now. I feel I'm educating myself a lot more now. Um would it have helped?

SPEAKER_00 18:43

Maybe.

SPEAKER_01 18:44

Maybe you don't know.

SPEAKER_00 18:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:46

But you have to go uh with what if, what if, what if to even if, even if, even if. So um I want to continue learning so I can give people some knowledge because I had nowhere to go.

SPEAKER_00 19:01

Yeah. I mean, that's the whole reason of this foundation is to I had nowhere to go for me.

SPEAKER_01 19:07

I had nowhere to guide me. I mean, there's no, there's no one way to handle this.

SPEAKER_02 19:14

No.

SPEAKER_01 19:14

But by having the resources, having the education, understanding the addiction, which I feel I never did, understanding, and now I'm thinking, oh my God, she was suffering so much.

SPEAKER_00 19:28

Yeah, it's like you we didn't realize how much pain she was in.

SPEAKER_01 19:32

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 19:33

And her addiction was her cure.

SPEAKER_01 19:36

Right.

SPEAKER_00 19:37

She was trying to cure her pain with the drugs. Right. And if we could have just switched how she was curing it, yeah, you know, or understood that she was trying to cure it that way, like we didn't think about it. So it's like you want to learn that addiction is a brain disease. It's not like a choice, it's a actual brain disease. That the recovery is lifelong, it's not a week or a month, it's forever. Relapse is common, but it's not failure. Okay, it's a setback, whatever. Treatment alone is never enough.

SPEAKER_01 20:13

Never.

SPEAKER_00 20:14

And I want to add one caveat to this is addiction is the only thing that you can cure that you're better off after. Right? If you have cancer or you have a leg amputation or you have break a bone, you're never better off after. Addiction, you could be better off. So it's one of those things. So those things we want to learn. Addiction is a brain disease, recovery is long term, relapse is common, but it's not failure. Treatment alone is rarely enough. Step two would be regulating your emotions. Like um, you could say you cannot help someone out of chaos if you're operating in chaos yourself.

SPEAKER_01 21:01

My brain was in chaos. My brain was in chaos, and I couldn't I was so stuck on that she had a choice, and I was so stuck on being angry that I couldn't move past that, and I feel that was so unfair to her. That's why through this, I hope through her death, I become stronger, I become kinder, I become more helpful to other people.

SPEAKER_00 21:31

And when we're regulating our emotions, we gotta encourage patience, calm communication, didn't have that, and avoiding blame language. So you're doing this, you're causing this, like putting that power like power on them almost. Yeah. Or blame on them.

SPEAKER_01 21:51

We we played the blame game. She blamed me, I blamed her. Um so that was our big thing. I'm like this because you sent me to this school, because you did this, because you did this for my brother, you did this for my sister. Her um her insight on everything was askew.

SPEAKER_00 22:13

Yeah. She was always the victim.

SPEAKER_01 22:15

Always the victim.

SPEAKER_00 22:16

And she never took ownership.

SPEAKER_01 22:17

Never took ownership.

SPEAKER_00 22:18

So that's why we want to like I when I read this avoid the blame game, the first thing I think about is extreme ownership. For sure. Like the moment you put blame on someone else, you give them the power over you.

SPEAKER_02 22:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:29

Um and the moment you take the blame, you you gain the power. So what like if you if you're blaming each other, like she'd blame you, you did this, you did this, you did this. She's giving all that to you. Like you caused this, versus I caused this, now I could fix this.

SPEAKER_02 22:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:49

Step three, hard, honest conversations, not interrogations. Like some good examples is I'm worried about you. I love you, and I'm here. I noticed some changes and I want to understand. We avoid accusations, lectures, and ultimatums early on.

SPEAKER_01 23:09

We did all that wrong.

SPEAKER_00 23:11

We started with the accusations, lectures, and ultimatums.

SPEAKER_01 23:14

For sure.

SPEAKER_00 23:15

Like, like, not the I'm worried about you.

SPEAKER_01 23:18

No, not in a loving kind of way. Never.

SPEAKER_00 23:20

It's what the F's wrong with you. Yeah. Get your shit together. You have a daughter. Yeah. Like.

SPEAKER_01 23:26

You're a nurse. You're a smart person. Get it together.

SPEAKER_00 23:30

And it was always like that uh interro, not interrogation, but almost like the what the what the hell's wrong with you? Like you have all of this. Why are you doing that?

SPEAKER_01 23:40

We all love you. What's wrong with you? So that other approach is 100% psychic.

SPEAKER_00 23:46

I'm here for you. I'm worried about you. I love you. And I think that can continue like no matter what. Like I know you talk to people, I talk to people now, and it's like that's the approach you want to take forever. It's like, okay, you're suffering. We're here when you're ready.

SPEAKER_02 24:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:04

We're worried about you. We love you. But we're we're we're here when you're ready to heal. Yeah. We're here. We'll always be here. I don't think we we took that approach.

SPEAKER_01 24:15

Absolutely not. Absolutely not.

SPEAKER_00 24:17

Yeah. It was more out of anger, hate.

SPEAKER_01 24:20

That's one of my biggest regrets. Um, I can't go back. So moving forward, I just want to change that for other people. Yeah. Don't be so angry.

unknown 24:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:31

And I've I feel the same way for me. It's like like you you tried to help her, you wanted to help her. And and we was like, hey, like I love you, and she'd be like, I love you too. And then then she'd be so excited you said I love you.

SPEAKER_01 24:45

And then she'd I always said I loved you.

SPEAKER_00 24:46

And then she'd go around and do something stupid, and then you'd flip the script right back to like, what the F are you doing? Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:53

Yeah. So sad.

SPEAKER_00 24:56

Um, step four, set healthy boundaries. Supporting versus enabling. I think we talked about that a little bit. Yes. Um not funding substance abuse, not covering consequences, being supportive but firm. I think towards the end, we let the consequences play in. Or well, not we, you. Um, like with her getting arrested in Texas and stuff. And but it's almost like we let that happen too late.

SPEAKER_01 25:32

Too late.

SPEAKER_00 25:32

Like the tough love was too late. Like when she got in trouble in Stanford.

SPEAKER_01 25:37

She got away with it. She got away with it. She should have been arrested.

SPEAKER_00 25:40

She should have been arrested. She would have been more in the like control here. Like, yeah. I think the hard stuff early, I think, get you closer to change faster. Right? Because you're trying to support early, you're trying to help early, you're trying to do everything you can early on. But I think that's when you need to like, okay, this is this is happening. It's bad now.

SPEAKER_01 26:03

Yeah. Um, but she had a lot of success. Um from her, I would say she was addicted to drugs probably 15 years. I'm saying she was addicted, but to drugs from that time at St. Vincent's. And she got it together.

SPEAKER_02 26:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:23

She got it together. She always got it together for two or three years and then went back because we were like, oh, she's fine. She'd say, I'm fine. But we didn't know, you know, it's for the long haul. We weren't aware that this is for life.

SPEAKER_02 26:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:38

You know, so she was like, she came out of rehab and she was doing great, got her license back, back to work, looked great. And then we kind of forgot about it.

SPEAKER_00 26:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:48

And then it hit you in the face again.

SPEAKER_00 26:50

Yeah. I think the not covering up consequences is huge. Um I mean, even like with me and in in my life, I wish I would have gotten trouble more versus versus getting out of it. Um I just think the we do things for either pain, avoidance of pain, or gaining pleasure. If you suffer difficult consequences, you're more likely to avoid that in the future. Right? I want to avoid that pain. That was painful. Going to jail was painful. Like getting arrested was painful. Yeah. Like going to court, that's painful. Getting like your license stripped away, that's painful. So it's like, this is causing so much pain, I want to avoid doing it.

SPEAKER_01 27:40

Yeah, but she lost it twice.

SPEAKER_00 27:42

But she got it back pretty easily.

SPEAKER_01 27:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:44

Right? She got it back pretty easily. There wasn't much pain involved in the process. Her pain was I have to switch states. Right? It wasn't like I don't have a job. It was like I have a job, but it's 20 minutes away versus 10 minutes away.

SPEAKER_01 27:58

Right.

SPEAKER_00 27:58

Like it wasn't that much pain involved.

SPEAKER_01 28:02

She had to go, um she had to go get drug tested, and I wish they kept that going.

SPEAKER_00 28:09

Yeah. But she had to get drug tested, but she still took her prescriptions.

SPEAKER_01 28:14

Yeah, she was very smart.

SPEAKER_00 28:16

And and knew which to take and how to and how to manipulate the system. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:22

Even when she died, there was no case or anything because it was all prescriptions.

SPEAKER_00 28:27

Yeah. Yeah. So um setting healthy boundaries, supporting versus enabling. We want to support, we don't want to enable. We don't want to fund their substance abuse. We don't want to cover up consequences. We want to be supportive but firm. Step five is build a support system for the family. Um, this is huge. This aligns with us. This is something we didn't have. Families need coaching, they need support groups, they need education, they need counseling, they need community. When your loved one is going through it, you're also going through it too. And that's something that I don't think we did. It was like, that's her issue, not our issue.

SPEAKER_01 29:08

But affected us all.

SPEAKER_00 29:10

It affected us. Like we called it a suicide bomber. Like she walks in and and everybody's affected. The kids, her daughters, everybody, everybody, everybody's affected. But I don't think we took enough responsibility to assist her.

SPEAKER_01 29:25

Not at all.

SPEAKER_00 29:25

No, not all. We didn't work as a team, we didn't learn. It was more just like, what's wrong with Gabrella?

SPEAKER_01 29:33

Yeah. Not how can we help her?

SPEAKER_00 29:35

No.

SPEAKER_01 29:36

Never.

SPEAKER_00 29:36

No. It's like she's got this issue, that's on her. Unless you're sober, get that out of here. You're not coming around.

SPEAKER_02 29:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:44

Like we never were like, how can we all help her?

SPEAKER_02 29:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:47

It was more like we all put that on you. Yeah. And then Zia took some responsibility. Britt took some responsibility.

SPEAKER_01 29:53

But like But we didn't even know what that responsibility was.

SPEAKER_00 29:57

Or what it should be.

SPEAKER_01 29:58

What it should be. Exactly. We didn't know what it should be. And I was listening to people that were uh addicts and say, no, they have to hit rock bottom. And you know, you have to let them go. You have to let them go. Meanwhile, what is rock bottom? Dead? She was she was in an emergency room overdosed on morphine. That wasn't rock bottom. Like, when is rock bottom?

SPEAKER_00 30:22

I think rock bottom is subjective. Like I know what my rock bottom was.

SPEAKER_01 30:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:27

Right? Yeah. It that was quick and easy for me to figure out.

SPEAKER_01 30:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:31

But I think that's different for everyone.

SPEAKER_01 30:34

Everybody. That's why this is so hard because it's different for everyone, for every individual, for every family. It's so different.

SPEAKER_00 30:45

I mean, it's for me. I always go back to like diet. It's like diet. Diet's different for everybody. Their fitness journey is different for everybody. The addiction recovery journey is different for everybody. Your relationship with your spouse is different for everybody. We're all individuals. But there are like these there are always commonalities. There are always like constants within it. Like we all, like if we knew if we go through these these five steps we just talked about, it's it's um, you know, educating yourself. Okay. I could have educated myself what addiction is, what recovery is.

SPEAKER_01 31:20

I could have for sure.

SPEAKER_00 31:21

But we could have.

SPEAKER_01 31:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:23

Learning how to regulate my emotions, right? That's something I'm still struggle with today. Regulate my emotions. I'm much better, but still something I need to work on. Starting hard honest conversation. I think it's something that we avoided, the hard conversations with Gabriella, with the family, with people who were enabling that we didn't want to enable. What's the structure we're gonna have with helping her? Um, setting the healthy boundaries, you know, what are those healthy boundaries? And then building a support system with coaching, support groups. Like you never went to Alana. Maybe you should have gone to Alan.

SPEAKER_01 31:58

Yeah, and she kept telling me to go.

SPEAKER_00 31:59

Yeah, like like maybe you should have. What is the education, counseling? What are communities I could join? Like you said, uh, what's the group you joined?

SPEAKER_01 32:07

Um compassionate friends. That community has helped me tremendously. I've also talked to people that have children that are addicts or alcoholics, and they're seeking people that would understand what they're going through. You know, that an addict in your home or an alcoholic tears your family apart. And I have so many people, like they sided with the drug addicts, so the other family members don't want to have anything to do with them. And that's a lot of it. It breaks families apart, it breaks marriages apart. It's truly a struggle. So if you're going through it and you talk to someone that's been through it, at least you can say, oh my God, I'm I felt that or I did that. You feel a sense of community. You don't want to be in that club, but you do need a tribe to help you get through that.

SPEAKER_00 33:03

And I think a lot of that stems from like the stigma of addiction. Like we're talking about, it's a choice. They're just a jerk, they're just a drunk, they're just an addict, and not realizing it's an actual brain disease. Right.

SPEAKER_01 33:15

Like I was just talking to someone yesterday, and he said to me, I never used to tell people about my child. And now I do.

SPEAKER_02 33:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:26

And people say, Oh, yeah, I lost a brother to that. Oh yeah, I know that affects so many people that you don't realize.

SPEAKER_00 33:33

And if we all talked, and I think the education process would exponentially move forwards. Like for sure. Like if everyone worked together to solve this problem, I think it would go faster versus everybody hiding it. Don't, don't say anything. He's got an issue, don't say it. Yeah, I'm not gonna talk about it. And I feel like we did that too.

SPEAKER_01 33:54

It's like I always talked about it though. I personally never hid it.

SPEAKER_00 33:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:58

Because I wanted someone to give me some kind of answer or some kind of guidance, which people did um through their experience, but that wasn't the right education I needed. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:09

Also, for me, I feel like I could have spoken about it differently. It's like like when they're going through it, it's like, ah, she, whatever, she's she's a piece of shit. She's just a uh an addict. Like, yeah, like versus having some compassion and empathy for her, be like, she's really struggling right now. I hope we could get her some help. You know, that I think that anger of what she was going through and how like she couldn't flip the script and how like she had her daughter and her life, like that anger, I think came out how I talked about her, which I wish I didn't have that. I wish it was like more compassionate and empathetic to her.

SPEAKER_01 34:46

I feel the same way a hundred percent. Like when she was in Texas, she's like, Oh, you and Dad could come down. I won't talk to dad. I'm like, I don't know why she she was so angry at dad, but I said, How could I come down there and then you're not talking to my husband? You know? And then she'd say, You I I need you to come down here and give me a hug. I said, Well, you have your daughter up here. How about giving her a hug? So that was, I always reflected back to her saying, Well, you're not doing this, so why should I do that? instead of just listening, hearing her, and maybe going down there.

SPEAKER_00 35:20

I also have no scientific evidence of this or know if it's true. I think her drug use from a young age, I'm not talking about um like like abuse, but like she started on antidepressants at like 15. Well, but yeah, I think that stunted her brain a little bit for like social development. Not she was brilliant, but like the social development of being a mother and and that I think got lost somewhere.

SPEAKER_02 35:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:52

I don't know if it was from the meds or just something personally, but or from starting the drugs, because it felt like she was always in a childlike state. Understanding the timeline of recovery. So treatment programs are only two weeks to 90 days. The real recovery process where we try to push for at the GDC is three to five years. The three to five year mark, you're less than 15% chance to relapse. And that's where you begin to start helping and coaching other people. Um, but what we also know is that it's a lifelong process. I've talked about it before with with Steven, is on this show, is we we still struggle with it now. Like, like in Scotland, I wanted to have a beer, or sometimes at at Capitol Grill, I want to have a glass of wine. And and I still have like that desire to have a drink, but I also know in the back of my mind that if I have that one, that it may or it may not, it may, but it may. So do I want to take that chance lead to many other right? And I don't want to take that chance, but I still always have that conversation in my head, like I could have one, I could have one. And I don't know if it's like the demons talking or like an actual like good choice. So I always still try to avoid that. So that's why it's like a, yeah, we push for three to five years, but I think it's a lifelong journey. Just like your nutrition and health and fitness are all lifelong journeys. Um, this is why long-term support matters. This is why the groups matter, this is why friendships matter, this is why families matter. And this is why, as families, we need to prepare for a marathon, not a sprint.

SPEAKER_01 37:34

For sure.

SPEAKER_00 37:35

Not the two weeks, not the one rehab, not the 90 days. Um, it's a lifelong process. Speaking of the lifelong process and rehab process, you talked about Gabriella doing like two or three years at a time. Did you feel like there was a relapse cycle or things that caused her to relapse?

SPEAKER_01 37:52

Um I wasn't that intuitive, to be honest with you. Um this last time, I think I was meeting Hank. Uh, he introduced her to fentanyl. So I think um that was it. I also think that it's the medical system. Her doctor, she would go there crying that she had anxiety, and he would give her anxiety pills, and I would say to him, She's an addict. And they would say, Well, it's not addictive. I said, Yeah, but she takes half the bottle. She's still getting stoned. You could go to the store and buy Benadryl and gets.

SPEAKER_00 38:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:28

But she liked that sleeping of feeling.

SPEAKER_00 38:31

Yeah, numb the pain.

SPEAKER_01 38:32

Numb the pain. So I feel um the medical system didn't help or support her. Um, I felt as a family we supported her. We had a dry house, we didn't drink. Um, I think we set a good example for her. But uh when she died, I called to Texas because that's the only thing I knew. And I spoke to her um sponsor. And, you know, I mean, she's in Texas and she's like, oh yeah, the sober house is no good. My sponsor left me, and it was everybody else's fault when she relapsed again. And I had asked the sponsor, why did you stop being Gabriella's sponsor? And she said, because she was moving too fast. She wasn't listening. She got a job at a hospital, she got her own apartment, you know, and she's saying to her, slow down. You shouldn't. And I said to her, you shouldn't be working at a hospital. I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine. And then she wasn't there too long.

SPEAKER_00 39:34

I think, I mean, I think one of the biggest catalysts for addiction recovery is change. And if we think about that, she always went back to her same habit. Always. Always in the hospital, yeah. Right. Um, in the medical field, which it that's fine, but then getting her own apartment and like she always went back to the same way. And I think when you keep going back to the same spot, that environment creates the bad or the triggers to use. Right. Um, so I want to push like the constant evolution and change and chasing your like peak self, like who is your peak self? And and I think you always have to change to do that. Sometimes I think I change too much and too often without diving into stuff, but I think that change and progress forward is a way to avoid addiction versus keep going back to where you're comfortable, like in a hospital where where she was comfortable.

SPEAKER_01 40:39

Yeah. She's probably comfortable getting the drugs.

SPEAKER_00 40:42

Yeah. Yeah. And be like, okay, hospital means they have drugs.

SPEAKER_01 40:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:48

Right?

SPEAKER_01 40:49

Because for years she worked in places where there was no drugs. Yeah for that reason.

SPEAKER_00 40:54

Let's go on to segment five is a practical action plan for families. So the GDC Family First Response Framework is number one, notice the signs. Um, number two, educate yourself. Number three, communicate with compassion. Number four, setting boundaries. Number five, seeking support early. And number six, preparing for a long-term recovery.

SPEAKER_01 41:17

Don't you find that you're saying boundaries? Like we could do our job, but there also has to be a consequence if they don't go follow those boundaries.

SPEAKER_00 41:29

Well, those are so you're setting boundaries, right? Those are what you have control over. So what do we have control over? Our thoughts, our actions, our emotions, right? Um, how we respond to things. So we could only set the boundaries. Right. All right, and we could set consequences for those boundaries. But it's up to them to follow them. You have to follow your end, they have to follow their end. So it's like you can't live here if you're not sober. The moment you know they're not sober, guess what?

SPEAKER_01 42:01

You have to have the strength.

SPEAKER_00 42:02

You have to have the strength to kick them out. To kick them out. You have to. You have to be like, you could go get help, you could go here, you go there, but this is the this is the boundary. You're in this house, you're sober.

SPEAKER_02 42:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:14

Right? So you need to be able to set those and you need to be able to stick to them. Because if you let it slide once, forget about it. Forget about it, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 42:23

And that's what I was just talking to this friend of mine yesterday, talking about boundaries, and you can say, you can live here as long as you're sober, but if they're not sober, kick them out. And it's like he's like, it's not gonna happen.

SPEAKER_00 42:39

Yeah. So and even like with the setting boundaries, you want to live here sober, okay. Once a week you're going to get tested. Yeah. Like you can make the contract or the boundary, whatever you want it to be, that you believe will most likely have success. Like right now, I think if one of my kids was using, I would do weekly testing. You want to live here, you want this much money a week. Like, this is this is the tactical steps that you need to take. And I think a lot of times with sobriety, we don't give tactical steps.

SPEAKER_01 43:15

It's like and they need structure.

SPEAKER_00 43:16

They need structure. Like these are the tactical steps. This is what you you need to go to the gym every day from five to six.

SPEAKER_01 43:22

Gabriella needed a lot of structure. She did best with structure, even as an adult. Like when she was going to get her BS in nursing, she had that structure that she did her work, and you she wasn't good with free time.

SPEAKER_00 43:36

Yeah. I I mean, I do best with structure now.

unknown 43:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:40

If I don't have structure, I get lost, I get stuck on social media, I need structure in my day.

SPEAKER_02 43:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:46

And a lot of times, if we don't know how to structure our day and we're left to our own devices, we're going to make bad choices.

SPEAKER_02 43:53

Right.

SPEAKER_00 43:54

Right. Until we learn the systems to make the good choices.

SPEAKER_01 43:57

Yeah. Definitely structure.

SPEAKER_00 43:59

So what do you say? To someone struggling, I love you, you're not alone.

SPEAKER_01 44:05

I'm here for you when you're ready.

SPEAKER_00 44:07

I'm worried about you.

SPEAKER_01 44:09

I want to help you get help. You also have to say those things in a sober moment, I feel. Because if they're not sober or they're high as a kite, it's gonna go right over their head. They could give two shits about what you're saying.

SPEAKER_00 44:24

But could you also be saying that for you?

SPEAKER_01 44:27

Oh, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 44:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:29

I I was very emotional during that time with her. Very emotional. I didn't have my wits about me. It was tearing me apart.

SPEAKER_00 44:41

Because a lot of things that you say, yeah, they're for them, but they're also for you.

SPEAKER_01 44:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:46

Like, are you saying I love you for her or for you?

unknown 44:52

Right.

SPEAKER_00 44:53

Who are you saying it for? I would say both. Both, right?

SPEAKER_02 44:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:57

Are you saying you're not alone for you or for her? Both. Both. So whether she's comprehending or listening, you're still saying it for a meaning. And it's still true. Right. So maybe you do say it when she's high and when she's sober.

SPEAKER_02 45:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:15

Right? Because then what if you don't say it when she's sober, but she's registering it and now it's like she doesn't love me at this moment.

SPEAKER_01 45:22

Yeah. I probably don't like you at this moment, but I love you. Yeah, that's what I used to say.

SPEAKER_00 45:28

All right. The last one, the scariest one, is when immediate help is needed. So overdose risk is huge. Um, there are narcan now. I think Narcan's available in Connecticut. If you know someone struggling, I would definitely go get some Narcan. Um, they have suicidal thoughts, there's a severe mental health crisis, dangerous or erratic behavior. Always encourage medical or emergency support when necessary. Um we've had we had to do it too many times with my sister. Um and that's always a scary moment.

SPEAKER_01 46:07

Very scary. Were you ever there when she when she I went to Zia's when she overdosed on the morphine. Uh she tended to do things when I wasn't around, almost to say you're on vacation, F you.

SPEAKER_02 46:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:23

You know. So uh, but I sh when she was at Zia's, I went there when they called 911.

SPEAKER_00 46:30

Yeah, so trust your intuition with that. If you're ever nervous, always I would always call 911. It's the fastest way to get them into a detox, too, if they choose to after. Any other thoughts with noticing first signs or first things that you would do differently? Differently. Or the same?

SPEAKER_01 46:51

I would do exactly what you said about saying I love you. I notice you're not uh something's not right, I'm here for you, you need to get help. I would be a lot less emotional, I would give a lot more hugs, I would show a lot more grace. Um I have a lot, a lot of regrets of how I could have handled it better. But the hardest thing for me was I'm juggling her, and I'm juggling six grandchildren and four of the adults that I didn't want to tear my family apart. And that's what it was doing. So I felt like if I sided with her, everybody else would be against me. So that was my hardest thing. And I think for people that have more than one child, and I've known this to happen to many people, where the addict tears the rest of the uh family apart. The siblings aren't speaking, the parents disown, the kids disown the parents for siding with the drug addict. I've seen a lot since this, but thank God for me, I still have the rest of my family and my grandchildren is what keep me going. And I hope that her legacy is that that not one of them touch a drug because they have seen too much for their young lives.

SPEAKER_00 48:24

And like the thing about life happens for you, not to you. And it's like, okay, she suffered significantly.

SPEAKER_01 48:33

Terribly.

SPEAKER_00 48:34

But what is her purpose? She still has a purpose.

SPEAKER_01 48:37

Yes, of course she does.

SPEAKER_00 48:38

And I tried to explain that to Sophia last time. Like, your mother did teach you things, she was still your mother, and it's just you have to take them in a positive manner. Like, what did her sickness and death, what is the positive we could take from it? Right. Hopefully, I agree. Hopefully, all six of them don't have an issue.

SPEAKER_01 48:54

Every life has meaning. Um, it might be the Costco paper towels. Yeah. You know, every time you think it out. I hope her meaning is for us to help people not struggle as she did.

SPEAKER_02 49:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:11

So I hope and I think her life does have meaning.

SPEAKER_00 49:16

Said families often feel powerless when addiction enters their home. You felt that 100%. But education, support, boundaries, patience can completely change the outcome. You don't have to figure this out alone. Recovery is possible, not just for the individual, but for the entire family.

SPEAKER_01 49:40

As we say, sometimes we say um to the person, I'm here if you need me. I feel like with my help too, if I talk to a parent of an addict, I'll say, I'm here if you need to talk, if you want to go to lunch. Sometimes they're not ready. The family is the family is not ready. So um I just want to let them know we're here.

SPEAKER_00 50:08

Yeah. We're here for you, for your family, and I don't think it's something to be ashamed of or scared of.

SPEAKER_01 50:17

Absolutely not.

SPEAKER_00 50:18

It's it's something that you do need support, and there is a community, and there is other families, and there is people that could help you. And with us at the GDC Project, you don't have to come in a group. You could come as an individual, you could come as a family, you could come confidential.

SPEAKER_01 50:37

Uh confidential.

SPEAKER_00 50:39

Yeah. Both of us.

SPEAKER_01 50:41

Confidential. I was thinking confidential.

SPEAKER_00 50:44

You know, our our main purpose from Gabriella's legacy is to help families so they don't have to struggle like we did. Um, it is a very difficult thing to deal with, but it is something that we can overcome. So if you think about ways you could help, is sharing this episode, reaching out to me, my mother, or just on the website to uh contact us at at thegcproject.com. Join the legacy group. Um, the legacy group, I think, is going to be our main like coaching group where we're gonna have topics like this. Every month there'll be a new topic. You'll get resources, things to read, maybe groups to join. Um, it's the beginning stages of it.

SPEAKER_01 51:28

Maybe a QA.

SPEAKER_00 51:30

Well, that's a Q, there's gonna be a QA every month with a short topic like this, with a QA to follow. Um, maybe one, maybe two calls a month. We're still in the beginning stage of building it. But our goal is to help as many families as possible. Any final closing messages?

SPEAKER_01 51:45

No, I was just gonna say, I wish I had someone that I could turn to that we did. You mostly did a lot of research on uh ways we could help people and also places to guide you.

SPEAKER_00 52:00

Yeah. Where you can go.

unknown 52:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:03

Yeah, I like uh I mean when we started this, it was like we're gonna fund people going to rehab. But the more we get into it, it's like where's the biggest gap in coverage?

SPEAKER_01 52:12

After rehab, they throw you to the wolves.

SPEAKER_00 52:15

Where's the where's the biggest gap? It's after rehab and after sober living.

SPEAKER_01 52:19

Well, after sober living. They go to sober living.

SPEAKER_00 52:21

And then what about the family? Yeah, there's really no, okay, we want to design a support system for the individual. How do we design that support system?

unknown 52:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:30

And the family could, we could help the family help them.

SPEAKER_00 52:33

Exactly. Well, that's the goal. Help the family help them. Help the family have the education, the knowledge, and the resources to continue the support. Because it is a lifelong support. It's not two weeks, 90 days, one year, two years. It is a lifelong journey. Yeah. And a journey that dad's on, a journey that I'm on. Um I know you don't drink, Jen stopped drinking, Brittany stopped drinking, and we all kind of are on that journey together for Gabriella, for the grandkids and my kids, your grandkids. We're we're still on that journey that almost she started.

SPEAKER_01 53:10

Yeah.

unknown 53:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:12

She taught us a lot.

SPEAKER_00 53:14

She taught us a lot.

SPEAKER_01 53:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:16

Well, thanks for coming out. Um thanks for listening to my mom. Maybe we'll have her on again soon. And you want to say goodbye or anything?

SPEAKER_01 53:24

I would just like to say don't be ashamed of reaching for help or support. It's well needed.

unknown 53:30

All right.

SPEAKER_01 53:31

Thanks for watching, guys. Bye.